Why Korean sounds more like Cantonese than Mandarin
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 лис 2022
- Ever noticed how Korean sounds a lot like Cantonese? Or Japanese? Or Vietnamese? People learning Korean might pick up on the similarities between these languages' use of Old Chinese vocabulary, and the pronunciation similarities between them. Take a listen for yourself, and learn more about the history of the Korean language with this short video.
I'm making this content so that Korean learners from all over the internet, members of communities like Refold, using services like Migaku, or studying with materials made by Talk To Me In Korean or Go! Billy Korean, can supplement their motivation and think more deeply about the work they're doing. Korean Patch is dedicated to helping people who are learning Korean become more authentic speakers of the language. We're glad you're here!
#learnkorean #languageacquisition #koreanpatch #koreanbooks #howtolearnkorean #comprehensibleinput #stephenkrashen #krashen #comprehensibleinputkorean #koreanlessons #koreanmotivation #studymotivation
------------------------------------------------
FREE HANJA EBOOK if you join our mailing list! Just head to our site and sign up for a mailing list account - you'll get the latest updates on new courses and study materials from Korean Patch!
► OUR SITE: koreanpatch.co
► INSTAGRAM: / krpatch
------------------------------------------------
► MUSIC CREDITS:
Cloud - Lukrembo
Buddha - Kontekst
Additional sound effects from www.zapsplat.com
------------------------------------------------
Not only Korean, Japanese loan words from Chinese also sound more like Cantonese as well. That can be attributed to the fact that Cantonese preserves more ancient pronunciations than Mandarin does.
That’s because when the Japanese expanded their vocabulary to allow for more modernization of Japanese using compound words, they borrowed from Tang Dynasty and I believe both Hokkien and Hakka dialects! Mainly because Japanese cannot end in a L - sound or cut off aspiration sounds like -g -k -l, they end in vowels which you probably already know!
For example,
Pharmacy
yak-kyoku (薬局)
yag-gug 약국 (藥局)
Languages are something to behold
To this day, Cantonese people refer to themselves as Tang People 唐人.
It is because of those seashore regions has long sea route trade relation since ancient time.
@TSG 302W Well my parents (not grandparents or great-grand parents) are from 中山. Yes, I'm a boomer. 🙂
Even more with chinese hakka
As a cantonese speaker who engages in korean culture, I have always found the language and many words to be strikingly similar. I felt like I had somehow cheated and learned some korean already 😅 The connections between cultures is so fascinating!
Back in the 80s and 90s, Koreans were so invested in Hong Kong dramas and movies. We were so fascinated in how similar many of the words were. I remember hearing someone say “poison” in a TVB drama and couldn’t believe I understand it. Dok yuk (canto) = dok yak (Korean)
@@mkryuI remember watch a Korean movie and someone say ‘ mi gug’ something like that. Sounded like America in Cantonese.
@@YorgosL1 yes. Mi guk sounds very similar to Mei gwok (Cantonese) for USA. In Korean we say Joong guk for China. Korea is Han Guk or in Cantonese it’s Hon Gwok
@@mkryu this is the result in being that mandarin lost the final stop sound of K so it’s guo but in Cantonese it’s gwok. just like Korean still retain the K sound.
@@YorgosL1 yes. Mandarin lost all the enders like k, m, t, p. It’s interesting that all the Chinese loan words in Korean end with the same consonant as Cantonese. I think the only difference is the pronunciation of the vowels.
I speak another Chinese "dialect", Hokkien, and it sounds even closer to Korean than Cantonese. 학생 is straight up hagseng (canto: hok seng), 신문 is sinbun (canto: san man), 결혼 is kiat hun (canto: git fan) and 책 is chek (canto: syu). Maybe you should look at this connection as well :)
If china is dominant, everything is related to Chinese; if china sucks, everyone is seen far away, distance itself, or even ditch everything related to china
Totally agree. I speak Teochew (which is a branch of Hokkien/Minnan) and Korean, and there are a lot of similarities in pronunciation.
@@hamza.l because the Min language is derived from middle ancient Chinese when Korean and Japanese come learn the Chinese language lol
yep Hokkian
You're right. I learned some Taiwanese(臺灣話) which is closely related to Hokkien(福建). They all originate in the Minnan(閩南) Language branch.
As a native Cantonese speaker, I used to grasp a lot of Korean words by searching up their etymological origins from classical Chinese on Wikipedia dictionary
For most of the time they phonically resemble Cantonese and it’s easy to see through the conversion patterns
Ig it’s a huge advantage in that respect
Finally a decent video on this specific topic!! I’m saying this as a Cantonese-speaking Korean learner who have found throughout the learning journey so many Hanjas pronounced in an extremely similar (or even the same) way as Cantonese. 만약 萬一 （Cantonese: “Man Yat”), 시간 時間 （Cantonese: “Si Gaan”), 초록색 草綠色（Cantonese: “Cho Luk Sek”) just to name a few …which are pronounced totally differently in Mandarin. What a great video. Thank you!
The characters in Chinese for the Korean word 만약(是“如果”的意思), should be 萬若(maan6 joek6) , not 萬一.
I'm Korean, living in Guangzhou and Shenzhen for more than 20 years. I speak Mandarin and Cantonese, some Hakka and Teochew. My wife is 本地廣州人。
@광동아재
What an interesting life you must have! I hope to learn those languages in the future, too!
@@beaumerci2706
During the Meiji era, Japanese translators of Western books began to replace English and German adjectival endings such as "-ic" and "-ik" with "的" (pronounced "teki" in Japanese). This was because it was very difficult to connect nouns with nouns without the help of suffixes in the existing Japanese structure. Initially, it was done by splitting Roman-tic, as in Romantic (浪漫的 - ろうまんてき), and assigning "的" to "-tic", but later it was extended to cover adjectival forms ending in "-ic" and "-ik".
At first it was recognized as a transliteration, but as it continued to be used over and over again in translations, it gained strength as a suffix regardless of its original meaning (e.g. 人間的、国際的、科学的、精神的) and began to develop its own usage, and Chinese, which imported Japanese translations, also adopted the suffix usage. In fact, in addition to that, the current contemporary Chinese vocabulary has many two-syllable words(e.g. 政治，国际，数学，经济) that were originally imported from Japanese publications in the 19th century. This kind of usage didn't exist in classical Chinese writings.
In Korean this usage(Korean words ending with "적") was fully adopted in the beginning of the 20th century when Korea was under Japanese colonial rule. Those two-syllable words made by the Japanese started also gaining wide usage during that period.
@@KoreanPatch
한국어 패치 님의 다른 영상을 방금 몇개 봤습니다. 그중에 "Your Korean teacher is wrong about Hanja" 영상이 있었네요. 한국사람들과 인터뷰 하는 거 보니까 실력이 보통이 아니신 듯해서 놀랐습니다.
한국에 오래 계셨으면 아실 것 같은데 한국어 실력이 아주 뛰어나기로 유명하고 방송에서도 많이 나온 외국인 중 미국에서 온 타일러나 독일 출신의 다니엘 같은 경우 모두 한자 공부를 굉장히 많이 한 사람들입니다.
한편 다른 영상 보니까 부산에서 살고 계신 것 같던데 한국 간 지는 얼마나 되셨나요? 저는 아버지가 서울이고 어머니가 부산 출신입니다.
I recognized many similarities when watching Cantonese TVB dramas back in the 80s. Some words that come to mind: Get ready/prepare is jun bi (Korean) and jun bei (canto). Gan ddan is simple in Korean and gaan dan in canto. Poison is dok yak in Korean and dok yuk in canto.
Cantonese could had been the main language just bunch of voters voted Mandarin instead.
I heard the pronunciation of Korean Hanja words originates from that of the Tang dynasty times, probably that explains the striking similarity, as a Korean currently learning Cantonese, I have been feeling the same way as you pointed out. I find he tones of Cantonese a bit difficult, but for Koreans living in the southern parts still speak tonal words, and that may make the job a little easier.
@@GetUnwokeFor example, 시간(time, Si gaan in Cantonese) is spoken with a high tone falling to a low one at the end, whereas this tonal effect can't be found in the standard Korean(as in Seoul and vicinities) anymore. 경마( horse race) starts from low tone rising to mid tone. It seems there is no principle or regularity in deciding which tonal combination to use...
Cantonese have a nickname: ”ba wa(白話)“ means like “RP Chinese“ back then. (RP English)
Nowadays Cantonese is not exactly same with Tang dynasty‘s pronunciation of course, but is the most similar one.
@@jihwanyoon7952 단어의 뜻이 바뀌는 성조와 의미 변동이 없는 엑센트 혹은 인터네이션은 완전히 다르지요.
@@GetUnwoke there is no tonal word in korean but just accent. You are right. Accent doesn't affect meaning of the word.
@@llillllii Doesn't Gyeongsang dialect have tones?
As a Korean living in Guangzhou and Shenzhen for more than 20 years, this is really amazing. I understand all those languages that this guy referred to in this vid, Mandarin, Cantonese and Japanese being the main. I also speak some basic level Hakka, Teochew, Hokkien, Shanghainese and Vietnamese.
What he says is actually true, seen from the fact that Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese are the most Sino culture oriented or influenced languages in Asia.
The lexicon and pronunciation of all those three languages is heavily based on Chinese, especially on Old and Middle Chinese.
We can find many similarities of those when compared to Mandarin and all those other Chinese regional dialects.
Strongly disagree. In ancient times much of what is called China territory belonged to Koreans in Northeast Asia. For Southeast Asia, much of south China was that of Vietnam territory in ancient times. Multi enthics people who ruled lands in inner east Asia influence the so called China culture today. You have it vise verse. For example, 500 years of last 1000 years In land called China today was ruled by Yuan Mongol Dynasty and Jin/Qing Dynasty of Korean Kim Dynasty.
@@kevinkevinkevin1909”much of south China was Vietnam territory in ancient time” this stament is wrong. The country was named Viet Nam occurred only in the last Nguyen dynasty formed in 1802. The native Vietnamese was called Luo Yue spoke Mon-Khmer lived in northern part of modern Vietnam. While Guang Dong/ Guang Xi were natived by Tai-Kradai and Fujian was natived by Min Yue who spoke Austroasiatic.
Wow!! You just be a language genius!!
@@Rabbit-tiger i got these infos from some documents i read. I believe wikipedia also has some writing talking about the language too. If you intend to mock me then I recommend you do some research on that first.
@@khiemlam835 I think he was complimenting you
Fascinating video. Thanks!
Fascinating! And very clearly explained. Thank you.
Han vocabs were introduced to Korea and Japan around the Tang Dynasty. At that time, the Han language pronunciation was Southearn dialect which branched out to Cantonese later.
Great video 👍
As a native Cantonese speaker and a Korean speaker, I couldn't agree with you more :)
Hokkien enters the chat...
@@peekaboopeekaboo1165Hokkien isn’t that much different compare to canto
I have interest in learning all three, so this is super interesting. Thank you!
Very interesting! Thank you
thank you and your team for making great videos 💝💝💝💝💝
Thank you for keeping up this channel! It still retains the spirt of learning that Jeremy started with Motivate Korean. I recently heard someone counting to ten in Thai. The pronunciation was almost identical to Korean. Very interesting all this stuff!
Thank you so much for the support! Miss him and his perspective on language learning a lot.
Very educative and interesting.
Actually when Korean got its original pronunciation from Chinese, the dominating language (or a dialectal continuum) was the Middle Chinese (中古音), which was the ancestral language for many diverse regional languages in China as well as in other East Asian countries. Mandarin changed much, but other languages (or dialects) changed as well, resulting very different pronunciation. The huge change of Mandarin has actually begun from about 9th century, following the disappearance of end-syllable consonants (-p, -t, -k), the second great vowel shift (a->o, o->u), the insertion and absorption of "i", the palatalization etc, while most of these changes did not occur or occurred in a different way in Korean or Cantonese. It is quite similar like the relationship among the Romance Languages in Europe, namely French, Italian, Spanish etc. They shared common roots and have many etymologically common words, but the pronunciation developed in different regions differently and independently, while lexically and morphologically also a lot of change due to both internal and exterior factors occurred.
I speak Wu Language(吳語), where all voiced consonants (b-, d-, g-, v- ...), which was from its equivalents in the Proto-language of Middle Chinese, still exist, while in almost all other languages except Go-on of Japanese they disappeared. Only Japanese and Wu speakers can distinguish the difference of the pronunciation of "棟" and "動".
Strongly disagree. In ancient times much of what is called China territory belonged to Koreans in Northeast Asia. For Southeast Asia, much of south China was that of Vietnam territory in ancient times. Multi enthics people who ruled lands inner east Asia influence in the so called China culture today. You have it vise verse. For example, 500 years of last 1000 years In land called China today was ruled by Yuan Mongol Dynasty and Jin/Qing Dynasty of Korean Kim Dynasty.
Wow!! Curious to ask, where did you learn all these? Is this from the study you did or are there any books we can read about this?
@@Rabbit-tiger No offense to Chinese people but there is only one country in the world who went through cultural revolution. There for, lot of their history is not authentic. In fact a lot of them are distorted. Also Genghis Khan is not from China lol...
Eu não falo japonês, mas para um falante do português brasileiro, é muito fácil de se pronunciar e de diferenciar as sílabas...
@@kevinkevinkevin1909 I am curious about where you learnt that Manchu being a branch of Korean. Correct me if i misunderstand your comment
As a Cantonese speaker in Hong Kong, the time most compare Cantonese with Vietnamese would have been the refugee announcement targeted to Vietnamese boat people (some time in the 80s?), or as corrupted into Cantonese 不漏洞拉 (Bat lau dung laai), apparently meaning "from now on" in Vietnamese. There are recordings on UA-cam, and even without analysis, I can make out Chinese originated words sprinkles throughout the Vietnamese announcement. E.g. I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure "nhập cảnh phi pháp" is 入境非法 (illegal border entry) or in Cantonese Jyutping (jap ging fei faat). I'm also quite certain Vietnamese has a different grammatical ordering, so it would have been 非法入境 in Chinese.
EDIT: So the Chinese Wikipedia page has the Chu Nom as well (Vietnamese in Chinese writing system), and all the legal/formal words are in Chinese characters.
😂
@@hagongda123did it blow your mind that Cantonese / việt share similarities
入 in Vietnamese is nhập which refer to entry or something like 入口 = nhập khẩu. these are word that we still use in the language. however these sounding are really similar to Cantonese than mandarin
@@Hkamerica273 remove the han-viet words and see the similarities
@@hagongda123You remove the Han-Viet then that’s no longer Vietnamese that Vietnamese speak 😂 Sadly, Vietnamese is a “Mon-Khmer” /Austroasiatic language but it cannot form a sentence without the use of Han-Viet and other older Chinese (came from the Han Dynasty that a local Vietnamese speaker would think it’s so native) 😂
Mandarin is Northern Dialect. While Korean was influence heavily by Tang, Song, Ming Dynasties, which spoke Middle to southern Chinese like Hakka, Hokkien, Cantonese etc.
Mandarin was already the most common language by the Ming Dynasty.
pretty wrong, there is no such thing as those dynasty speaking catonese, hakkaa,,, hokkien,, those are very tiny dialects of china ( thousands of dialects), the official languages of ming dynasty is Nanjing dialect ( nanjing is a city in east china, not north china), which come from zhongyuan yayan which is tang language, it is from north
Korea is a northern country. Vietnam is a southern country.
@@leejianne5342 because chinese lanugages have long history and china has long history and china is big and chinese popluation has been big since thousands years ago., the people from different location speak dialects of local,
@@xinyiquan666so is America and yet they only have one unified language. China have many different languages. Not dialect of each other
Never knew the link between these languages, very interesting, Thanks for posting
If you know Cantonese and Japanese then you can usually have a good guess at the meaning of the word if it is a word that can be written in hanja. For example, the word for the days of the week - start with the Japanese word and pronounce the kanji in Cantonese, and you'll get something fairly close to Korean (remember that words ending in -t become -l in Korean). As many people say, Cantonese and other southern Sinitic languages are much older than Mandarin and thus preserves the endings and other aspects of pronunciation and meaning.
Well done. Love it when someone makes a video connecting the historical roots of seemingly divergent languages/dialects.
Thank you confirming my feelings.
Good to know.
Great Video!! So true many words in Korean sound so similar to Cantonese. Cantonese is older Chinese language and Korean was greatly influenced by Ming Dynasty in old China.
Very interesting video! My parents are from Guangzhou and HK while my wife's parents are from Korea so I notice this quite a bit.
Well done! Even as a Korean, I learned quite some new facts and theories.
Loved seeing the HK B-roll! I at in the same cafe in Sheung Wan last week :)
Think the channel host should check out Min Nan dialect from the south of Fujian Province. Also spoken in parta of Taiwan. Amazingly similar to Korean.
Way more similar to the sino korean words than Cantonese is
Thank you for this video. I have always wanted to know why some Korean words sound similar to Cantonese.
Thank you for this comment. I'm so happy that this was helpful for you! Feel free to reach out if you've got any other Korean-related topics on your mind!
So true!!!!
I also wondered about this. The words for colors are almost exactly the same. Years ago, a Hong Kong friend of mine and I were dumbfounded.
I speak hakka dialecs and some of the words is similar or close sound to Korea language too, like door ( mun) student ( hak seng) , also in number like 6,7,8,9,10 , 1000 , 10.000 almost same sound, , and verbs like prepare ( chun bi) ,
Korea language has adapted words from china not only mandarin but the dialects also as korean and china historical relationship from the long past ago
Thank you for making a video on this!!! I mentioned to my Cantonese parents that they sounded similar and my dad did that Chinese thing where he just pretended not to hear me lol.
Hi there.
As a person who knows Mandarin, Cantonese and Hokkien, and
pretty used to the feeling how Korean sounds like,
I personally think Hokkien sounded much more related to Korean.
You could possible refer to the Tai-yu of Taiwan, or Minnan Yu of Fujian province in China, or Hokkien in Malaysia/Singapore.
All the best ;)
So-called "Tai-yu" is actually Minnan Yu ...as they're all settlers from Fujian province.
@@peekaboopeekaboo1165 They are slightly different as Taiwanese HoKkien has loanwords from Japanese and Formosan.
@@brianlam9429
"Taiyu" only applies to Japanese colonized generation of Chinese in Taiwan.
No such language or people known as "Formosan" ... the Portuguese occupiers didn't name the Chinese and indigenous as "Formosan".
@@peekaboopeekaboo1165 Unfortunately, you are wrong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formosan
@@brianlam9429
Wikipedia is exploited/manipulated by both traitors and U$ Gov-led anti-Chinese agenda.
Wu Chinese (were Shanghainese is a major dialect) is pretty similar as well. My grandparents spoke it (specifically a Jiangsu variety) and 人 is pronounced like nin (similar to Japanese).
One factor that pretty much all non-Mandarin Chinese varieties have kept to some degree is the Checked Tone. The only variety (that I know of) of Chinese in the north that has kept any Checked tones is Jin Chinese.
I actually think Cantonese and Vietnamese share the most common similarities. More than Japan and korea
Vietnamese and Cantonese definitely sound similar whereas Korean sounds similar to Japan. And they "Latin" of all Sinic languages, sounds neither like Japanese or Korean. Taiwanese dialect sounds similar to Japanese though.
that's not surprising considering how many Cantonese / southern people moved to Vietnam and SE Asia centuries ago, which is why they still speak Cantonese, Hokkien etc. today
@@sdlock83 Japanese and Korean are not related, linguists dispute this idea, maybe there was a common ancestor thousands of years ago, Taiwanese borrowed Japanese words when it was occupied
@@danielzhang1916 I said they SOUND similar. I never said they were "related," even though that is still true because both Japanese and Korean are part of the Sinic languages just as FRIPS are Romance languages.
@@sdlock83 it's actually Sinitic languages
One of my friends from Hong Kong spent a year to go from zero to fluent Korean. I guess the Chinese just have an insane advantage when it comes to learning Korean, especially when they work really hard. He studied like 4 hours on the weekdays, and like 8 hours in the weekend. Just one year, fluent, I travelled with her to Korea, and the Korean said she was fluent too, crazy.
There are about 313 weekdays, and 52 days of weekends (Sat+Sun) a year. 313*4+52*8 = 1668 hours...crazy, maybe she is more talented than others? I'm not sure.
Chinese was brought to Korea centuries ago, something like 60-70% of Korean uses it, that's why it's easier to learn from Cantonese
The Korean script can be learnt in 1/2 day by a genius, one day by another n three days by a 'fool' !
would you say the relationship between chinese and korean have with hanja is similar to languages like, say Spanish and German? where they share the same writing system but are two completely languages
kind of. if you can read latin script you can read (but not understand) Spanish and German to an extent. you wouldn’t understand the umlauts or the spanish ñ if you didn’t know them already but you could get by with pronunciations you already know. with Korean and Chinese, if you can read the hanja you can not only read it phonetically in the language you understand, but you can also understand the character’s meaning. if you knew spanish you could say and understand casa, but you would not be able to say or understand german Haus. if you spoke Chinese, you could say and understand 大 (dà), regardless of if the character is in chinese, japanese or korean. I’ve been learning chinese and so i can understand korean and japanese hanja and kanji signage, and i could read it with chinese pronunciation. hope this makes sense lol
Spanish and German are actually distantly related. Part of a large language family. Korean and Chinese are not related AT ALL, so no, not the same situation
minanese from Fujian province is older than Cantonese, it uses some of the vocabularies from old Chinese. Cantonese on the other hand sounds like Vietnamese
Why the air quote around “comes from”?
The Min Language sounds more similar to Korean and Japanese Chinese loan words than Cantonese, since they’re even older than Cantonese. Such as Hokkien and teochew
Please don't forget the Wu language which is used Shanghai and its surrounding provinces, many Japanese and Korean loan words came from the Wu dialect, even the Japanese Kimono was heavily influenced by the ancient Wu clothing.
I am Korean who used to live in Hong Kong and I always wondered why. Now I understand fully. Thanks!
A lot of Taiwanese also speak Taigi (or "Taiwanese Hokkien" if being pedantic) before Mandarin took over.
It's also pretty similar to Korean/Cantonese/Japanese than Mandarin from time to time.
學校: ha̍k-hāu
警察: kéng-chhat (k- is hard g sound; chh- is tsu sound)
未來: bī-lâi (b- is a soft b, a mix of soft b, v, and m sound)
I find that knowing Taigi helped me more on pick up other East Asian languages than knowing mandarin aside from the characters.
I have a question of the native Cantonese speakers in this comment section who learn Korean: do you feel like this connection makes it easier or harder for you to learn Korean? Because I am German and I learned a bit of Netherlands and learning Korean came much easier to me than learning Netherlands, because it was so different than my native language and I basically had a clean sheet in my brain for that. With Netherlands my brain was so confused because when stuff was pronounced very similarly or when the grammar was just slightly different it was like: „What is that? You are doing your German wrong!“ and I just couldn’t memorize the differences 🙈😂
Yes. As a Cantonese speaker myself, I find this similar but not entirely the same. There are character/ phrases (more like a pair words at times) similar at times. I’m leaning Japanese which is in a similar state. Although it’s mostly on words. Grammar and phrasing is completely different. In a way, by comparing the proximity of a language to older Chinese, you can tell which is easier than the other to learn comparatively
I feel it’s easier. My mother language is Vietnamese, It’s same as Cantonese (pronunciation) , but Vietnamese is different from Mandarin.
So I learn Cantonese is very easy.
I think the key is to not always switch over to your main language, some people get mixed up when they try to match it, don't overthink the process
@@thangchan7395u think so ?
Just so you know, if you haven't known, Taiwanese (Hokkien) and Korean have more similarities than Cantonese I believe. If you search yt for both (in Mandarin), you may find some videos. One of them I watched has one korean girl and one Taiwanese girl speaking the same word at a time in their languages, they sound identical, almost
Southern Chinese languages such as Cantonese and Hokkien are closer to Middle Chinese than Mandarin, while Korean and Japanese were influenced by China mainly during the Middle Ages. Northern China was ruled by the northern nationalities for a long time after the Song Dynasty, resulting in a large difference between the northern language and the southern language, and Mandarin is the northern Chinese
you are right.
A part for Chinese, korean grammar is having hindi within. Like 해.... Which usually appear at the end of sentence.
Just started learning korean. As a malaysian who speak Hakka, it sounds super familar to me especially when i was learning how to count from 1-10 (Non-native of course )😂😂
ua-cam.com/video/5NNPaJF2_7Q/v-deo.html
Another comparison，for tonal languages.
Also, Japanese, Vietnamese, and Hakka language, the classic Chinese is pronounced more like that than modern Mandarin, the modern Mandarin pronunciation originated from a Northern dialect popularized by I think the Manchu but it might be the Mongols
Cantonese is similar to Vietnamese but they are absolutely different languages.
I’m Hongkonger.
try compare the "Min Nan 闽南“ which speak widely in Taiwan
Cantonese dates way further back than Mandarin and also spread further because of the different trade between countries. Vietnamese also shares a lot of pronunciation similarities to it. Another interesting case is Thai, where although most of the language is Sanskrit based, their number counting sounds almost exactly the same as Cantonese.
I always questioned why all the other languages sounded like each other and to Cantonese and not Mandarin. Finally I looked it up one day and found all the similar facts you had in this video.
Hokkien dates even more further back than Cantonese and Mandarin
@@user-mb3qq3in9zHokkien is old but not as old as the min languages. both canto and Hokkien are older than mandarin. mandarin is only a new born child compare to southern languages
When we are talking about older Chinese pronunciations, I wonder whether people in Xian or Luoyang's dialects is more accurate since they were the ancient capital of China. Pre-Qin during the warring states period of ancient China, may Chinese lords was exiled to the Liaodong peninsula and later ruled Korean peninsula for some time, whether their Chinese speaking dialects also played part in shaping the modern Korean language? It is a fascinating topic to talk about, but at the same time its also a hard topic to have with any Koreans about, the moment you bring up there maybe a chance of Chinese influence then they gets real worked up.
No, definitely not. Interesting thought, but these pronunciation artifacts are pretty simply connected to the importation of 한문 for religious, bureaucratic, and literary practices.
Korea share common ancestry in language n culture with Turkish peoples!
Korean, Cantonese and Japanese were affected by Ancient Chinese in different levels, so there are still some phonetic characteristics remained, which make them sound similar. While Mandarin came much later, and it is highly affected by North Nordic languages in Siberia
You left out traders from Fujian who spoke Minnan who brought Minnan words pronounciation to Korea, Vietban Japan.
Hey man, great video. Subscribed. I would much so appreciate it if you cite the sources for your research tho!
Hey, thanks! I'll try to do that in the future, but keeping content coming while also working a job and running a restaurant leaves little time for making a bibliography haha. Is there anything in this video you felt needs a citation specifically? I'll get on it, if so.
@@KoreanPatch I would like to delve more into the whole "Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, and Cantonese retain more of classical Chinese pronunciation" bit!
Also, what's the name of your restaurant? I'd love to visit if I'm ever in the area!
Our restaurant is called Uno Dos Tacos, located in Busan!
As for a citation on the relationship between middle Chinese and all of these languages, here's a Wikipedia page that starts the dive into the concept. I'm honestly not sure how etymology citations work.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Xenic_pronunciations
That's why, if someone has to choose between Cantonese or Mandarin to learn in order to get to know the Chinese culture, Cantonese is way funner and more lively to learn. Partly because it has preserved a lot of authentic Chinese culture, it's got way more linguistic expressions to describe emotions, situations, and the way of life that we live in.
Also hokkien. Hokkien and korean very similar
Good point! Actually Mandarin is a northern dialect that has become popular in the past 100 years. Before Qing Dynasty that was ruled by Manchus, the national language in China sounded more like southern dialects in China.Nanjing was the capital of Ming dynasty and Hangzhou was capital of South Sing dynasty. If you know Shanghai dialect you will realise how similar it is to Korean language. Besides the pronunciation of Kanji in Japanese language is also similar to Wu dialect in Southern China, because hundreds of thousands of Wu citizens fled to Japan after the fall of the kingdom of Wu during Three Kingdom period 2000 years ago.
Cantonese, Vietnamese, are very similar as well
Although I'd agree there's a level of similarity between Kr and Canto, but it appears more sticky as in Hokkien rather than my native, Canto
Let me clarify one thing. The word 警察 is a Japanese-developed kanji word, which Chinese students who studied in Japan in the late 19th and early 20th century brought back to China. During the period, more than 10,000 Chinese students, including Lu Xun (魯迅), Zhou Enlai (周恩来), came Japan to learn all kinds of subjects and brought back Japanese kanji words with them. Let me put some of the well-known Japanese kanji words here: 人民、思想、経済、階級、哲学、理性、細胞、科学、理論、主義、共産主義、共和国. Even Chinese admit that there are over 800 Japanese kanji words that Chinese use today. Maozedong couldn't have written 毛沢東思想 without using those borrowed words. Taiwan, Korea, and Vietnam, which are also countries that have used Chinese characters, adopted those Japanese kanji words as well.
放屁，很多词都是日本人从中国典籍抄来的，并不是他们发明的
Vocabulary is not an invention; it's simply the utilization of combinations of characters. Take "苹果" as a simple example: it is expressed differently in various languages but refers to the same entity. In English, although there is no "苹果," this doesn't hinder it from being called an apple. Regarding the characters themselves, this represents a creation from nonexistence to existence, which is termed an invention. Following your logic, if Japan did not learn from Chinese characters, then there would be no Japanese language.
That is actually not that important. These specific combinations of Chinese characters were first invented by the Japanese just because Japan started to translate English words earlier than China. Even though Japan did not translate these English-borrowed words via Chinese characters, these vocabularies would still be created later in a Chinese way. These early translated vocabularies were directly adopted for convenience. Actually, modern Japanese use more Kana, instead of Chinese characters to translate new English-borrowed words. As a comparison, China still insists on translating borrowed words based on meaning rather than pronunciation. Many examples such as ice cream - 冰淇淋 - アイスクリーム, Christmas - 圣诞节 - クリスマス, Facebook - 脸书 - フェイスブック.
@@piyo4341 some words are directly translated like Google 谷歌, Twitter 推特, and people's names, but I guess it's easier to translate by meaning, so people don't get confused
It's the same case with Japanese and Medieval Wu (the ancestor of modern Shanghaiese) and Min (whence modern Fujian languages like Hokkien, Teochew, etc... come), languages spoken in Coastal Central and Southern China. Southern Chinese languages are just much more conservative than Mandarin as well with the Min language actually breaking off from Old Chinese in the 3rd century AD rather than Middle Chinese like the rest of the Chinese langauges and then was isolated and evolved alone in the mountains of Southeastern China for hundreds of years. So Hokkien is especially archaic, especially when it comes to word meanings, but at the same time had a bunch of its own innovations and sound changes that we also see in many Japanese and Korean words.
@@leejianne5342 They are, but the Han people aren't indigenous to Southern China. They migrated there and then mixed with the native populations. The Hokkien people were just the first Han Chinese people to migrate to Southern China and then were isolated from other Old Chinese dialects whose speakers took longer to move deeper South.
If you know other Chinese dialect you will know that it's more similar to combined Hakka and Fujian even chaozou than Cantonese
However Cantonese is the most similar to Vietnamese and taishanese. Definitely far from something like mandarin lol
@@YorgosL1 Mandarin have a short history like about 300 years.
@@masbroscraft true
because mandarin is a newer created language to be used as the official language. It was used by the official for official documentations and it's easier for everyone to learn a simpler language so the whole country can communicate. So because cantonese and korean is old language they are similar. Thai also similar, viet, so on.
I still can't understand why they use numbers to represent sounds
만다린식보다 광동식 한자 발음이 비슷하군요! 오
Hokkien is even older, like classical compared to Cantonese that is closer to medieval Chinese, Cantonese and Vietnamese kinda sounds similar while Hokkien is more similar to my ears as Japanese and Korean.
I speak another Chinese dialect “Wu”吴语.
Some people who don’t understand my dialect ask me ‘Are you speaking Japanese’ when they hear the pronunciation of Wu😅
Actually it sounded more like hakka
say 2 similar words to cantonese and its related?
i think vietnamese didn't just use the characters to an "extent" they used the chinese characters FULLY until the french took over and gave us the english alphabets we use now
I'm not sure if this is the moment you're referring to, but at one point I said something to the effect of "You'll find things like (this) and (this) in Korea, Japan, and to a lesser extent, Vietnam" because I was under the impression that Vietnam isn't quite as covered with Chinese characters outside of traditional stuff like temples, superstitious decorations, or things like that anymore. Is Vietnam full of Chinese characters in marketing, signage, and things like that? I haven't had the privilege of visiting yet.
Vietnam uses the Vietnamese alphabet, not English alphabet. Where's your source for that info. During the French occupation, invasion and colonization of Vietnam separated into three parts, the French government did abandon Chu Nom and Chinese characters for 91 years from 1854-1945, but the people kept using it. The Vietnamese used the Chinese language in combination with their native characters called Chu Nom or with Chinese characters called Han- Nom from some time before 1209 until 1918, at the end of the imperial civil service examination in Vietnam. 709-100 = in other words, Han-nom was used in Vietnam for 609 years if not more in Vietnam.
A lot of people call the western/Latin alphabet used today the "English alphabet" out of habit. Even in Korean, these tend to be called 영문, or "English characters" - just vernacular for the writing system I'm using to write this comment. Western alphabet or Latin script or something like that is a more accurate term, but much like native speakers use "accent" in place of the more accurate "dialect", sometimes native speech breaks the language's rules.
@@trien30the vietnamese alphabet ??? What lol
@@KoreanPatch No. It fully uses the Latin Alphabet. It would be like how Old Korean Temples and some traditional holidays may have Hanja terms but everything is in Hangul.
Vietnamese does share a lexicon with Chinese because of it’s location but it would take some time to figure out.
Mandarin is originally and mainly a dialect used by Manchurian. The language officially used by most “Chinese” before Qing dynasty was closer to the Cantonese, and was widely spread and adopted by Japanese and Korean.
I really afraid of the algorithm of UA-cam!! How on earth they know that I want to learn Cantonese!😅
Basically Catonese, Min, Wu branched out much earlier and Mandarin is a very young language. So if you speak these languages you have the advantage when reading Kanji in Japanese and Hanja in Korean.
Not necessary Korean only sounded like the Cantonese dialect, but it also sounds like some of other Chinese dialects such as Hakka and Hokkien (Fujian dialect)
I think the Hokkienese has more similarity than Cantonese, for example, gamsahamnida, in Hokkienese : Kamsiah. The numeric etc.
Yeah and in canto, kamsa would be read as kamzei or something
Do you know 河洛話？ It is the oldest dialect in China. It's called 閔南話in China now, also called 台語 in Taiwan. So, 河洛話 was spead and affect very far away. If you know 台語，while you are learning Korean or Vietnamese, you will find out it easier, because there are manay words pronounce the same.
and also hakka and hokkien
This is because countries like Vietnam, Korea and Japan were influenced by China since from 200BC until 1683 AD. So many elements of the Chinese culture can be found in those countries.
When I first started watching Korean-language media, I described it as sounding like Japanese being spoken with a Cantonese accent.
actually the Yuan dynasty came up with the idea of Mandarin, since too many people spoke too many different languages, they thought a single "main" language would be helpful, it didn't really catch on, but ironically during the Ming dynasty, they realized that the idea, was a good one. and implementation started there using, and it became more wide spread as time went on, such as in Qing dynasty. Mandarin, unlike most of the other languages was a purpose driven creation, similar to the korean writing system, which is why the korean writing system, and mandarin as a language are both fairly efficient and well thought out, as it was more planned than organic.
The Hokkien dialect sounds almost exact to Korean
it is so far
Now we need to explain how 'library' is pronounced
If you know Wu Chinese which used in Yangtze River Delta, you'll find it's sound more closer to Japanese and Korean than you think on the Chinese loanwords.
Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese borrowed lots of Chinese word in ancient time. But Chinese language especially Mandarin evolved more rapidly than these three languages and other Chinese dialects.
The sound derivation of Wu Chinese is quite inconsistent when compared to middle chinese, (Mandarin has more consistency, though some big changes) I would say Wu Chinese has a similar trend of evolving like Japanese, however its some of its pronounciation might not be as consistent in this context when comapred with Hokkien.
Another example. The way you said "cantonese" in korean, sounds close to how you say it in cantonese.
Before1509s, all Chinese dialects, including northern, spoke with similar
pronunciation, including. --k, --p, --t at
ends of syllables. From 1500s on?, northern Chinese abandoned those 3
consonants, added at least 6 new consonants at beginnings of syllables
added s few new vowels..etc
Central.East + Southeast Chinese--
Cantonese,.Haikka, Ho kkien l, Teo chew, Hujiu ( Fuzhou), Ng. (Wu), Ga n,
Hainan.,
(Xiang of Human seems to share northern sound changes
Korean?. Vietnamese, Jap anese, etc.
There is a yotube video that shows how to use Han Gul to write Hokkien. ( perhaps
also.for Cantonese. + all the others,.
except perhaps for Xiang.)
Korean and Japanese sounds more similar to Hokkien, lesser extent is Cantonese, the original dominant language during the Tang Dynasty where Korean Empire was an ally and many cultural exchange. Mandarin are a minority dialect that only becomes popularised when Manchu took over China.
Chinese hakka too
Funny Mandarin is the odd one among all of these regions and strayed the furthest from others.
明朝皇帝朱棣接见两广的官员时还要有些官员转译，宋朝时苏轼有诗说两广的部分人说话就像猴子一样聒噪。所以某些粤吹闽吹，你们自己语言上被东南亚污染，血统更是如此就别碰瓷官话了，我一个人湖北人都看不下去了。
All these languages of outlying areas remained archaic (SE China, Vietnam, Korea, and Japan), while Mandarin was influenced by northern languages.
Unfortunately Koreans and Vietnamese writings don't use Kanji anymore, especially Vietnamese, which make me not want to learn them cos that woulkd be too much works! BTW my native lang. Is cantonese.
Correction! u r referring to vocal/verbal Korean, Korean has its written form using Chinese characters (at least for a long time), so when a Korean comes to Hong Kong, he or she can basically understand what was written eg. on menus, street directions signs etc. but not necessarily speak the words.
I found Korean sounds more related to Hokkien which is spoken in Taiwan and Fujian.
Actually min nan dialect which sound closer to korean language due to the tang dynasty cultural influence.
Actually, Minnan diverged already in the Hn period. It's Canton]ese that in associated with the Tang.
I think ur imagining it. If its true, i would've liked cantonese. It sounds more like thai or vuet maybe
I'm 100% a Cantonese speaker and I can tell Korean language are totally different and nothing comes similar