My brother was the most highly emotionally intelligent person I ever had the privilege of knowing. It took a lot to get him to react. He innately knew how to be indifferent. He simply wouldn't engage. He would carry a book with him wherever he went, and if arguments started in our family with my narcissistic father at the helm, he would slip away somewhere and check out and read his book, while the rest of us took my father's bait. When it came to saying no, my brother would say, "thanks, but you go ahead, you enjoy", "thanks, not my thing, but you have a great time". Always so respectful and gracious. He was so clever. I miss him dearly. He died 3yrs ago in his sleep at age 47.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It sounds like your brother had an incredible ability to navigate difficult situations with grace and wisdom. His memory clearly lives on through the impact he had on those around him.
I think what makes gaslighting gaslighting and not just lying is that it disrupts your ability to trust your own perception of reality. Love your content! Watching your content has actually inspired me reconsider my career goals.
Adding on to my own comment here. Have you done any interviews talking about what it’s like to specialize in personality disorders. I find PDs to be fascinating and I like rooting for the underdogs. Thank you!
I turn into child like. I think I've done something wrong . Or that I'm less than. Then people roll over me. Again even the medical field does this because they don't understand us.
I wouldn't say a child because that offends me LMFAO but I definitely understand that feeling or what you mean, like we revert back to old habits, apologizing, giving up, sulking, shutting down. But then when we're split and raging it's the complete opposite and nobody should be within 300 ft of us because everything feels justified, go figure! it's so frustrating lol
@@Amused_Comfort_Inc the rage is justified, and i never feel guilty for it AT ALL…. if mfs didn’t “roll over us” then i wouldn’t have the rage to respond. always rage. destroy the enemy - robert green
I was severely abused by my diagnosed narcissistic mentally ill mother. I started studying teaching part-time and started working. Learning to say no was a deep learning process.
Wow she was actually diagnosed I think you need to unlearn everything she taught you. Except those random tidbits that are actually are true do not forget those
I am sorry.❤ I wish someone would diagnosed my mother but now she is too old... yeah so it doesn't matter though diagnosis or not no.changer right. It really makes no difference what you do there will never be a change to these people
I have successfully raised three wonderful adult children, together with my husband. I have unlearned many things with therapy. I still struggle, and that is okay. Life is good 🙏🏻
Really good advice. I had to learn to say no by saying, "I'd rather not today, but thank you." Now I can just say no - or 'hell, no!' depending. Being raised with physical and emotional abuse and ending up marrying someone like my parents made it hard to say no. It's such a freedom to just be able to say no, and people stop expecting you to be manipulation easy. Better set of friends.
"Use them every day with everyone you know" I love that you encourage and insist that we use these strategies daily. The more we practice, the better we become at maintaining and respectng our boundaries. Thank you for the timely and easily applicable talking points.
There are a lot of rude people in this world. People who treat others like garbage then turn it around and play victim. It is a Terrible world we live in.
Australia here. Great teachings. I had a fellow choir member give a back handed compliment about my singing. I didn't react. I saw it for what it was. She was jealous. I don't go to her house anymore or deal with her much. My mother was a narcissist, so I recognised her tactics early on.
It's impressive that you were able to recognize that behavior for what it was. It's important to surround ourselves with positive influences, and it sounds like you've made the right choice!
100 % totally followed your example of gaslighting lol no wonder I'm so dizzy all the time with vertigo. Vertigo is the physical component of being Gaslight
The problem with gaslighting is that it is in between lies and truth. The gaslight say part of a truth and mix it with lies and since the brain can't deal with conflicting information, the confusion will began, making you more vulnerable. Ex; You caught a gaslighter flirting with another person, he/she says they are not flirting, just been overly polite or nice and that the victim is too sensitive and should trust them more. A part of you know they were flirting but the other part of you say that you are imagining things or that you can be indeed sensitive at times. Where is the truth and where is the lie?
Thank you for these scripts on how to handle this. I certainly struggle with how to handle things especially at work long hours in the night. Because you’re also stressed and tired and living abnormal life, and so I’ll freeze or maybe react. I need to build confidence in this area. Thank you Dr Fox for imparting a confidence.
so what are you supposed to do when someone with BPD devalues you around leaving snd then decides to break up with you. You are leaving town for a couple months & this triggers their fear of abandonment, they start to split on you, you don't know what is going on so you react by asking them to confirm they care about you, this drives them back further, you have some anxiety around partners pulling back already (let's say the bpd already once broke up with you the last time you left town).. and so you try your best to convince them of what is happening. But by now they have fully split on you. is this manipulation? Yes I used guilt tripping.. She was telling me she loved me and then 2 weeks later boom! she is breaking up with me and leaving me. And she doesn't seem to realize what is happening. Mind you I did not know what BPD is then... (she seems to have it paired with a body image issue that flares up when I leave town). Of course she's been to therapy so she is hypervigilant about these sort of manipulation stuff. I guess the reality is that I could not convince her to stay. And I wound up just making it all that much worse by trying to hold on.
This may be a sensitive or triggering comment but do you have a video or some information out about recognizing manipulative behaviors and relationship-harming behaviors in yourself? Though I didn't watch this to the end yet, I feel like that's important especially for those of us with BPD who want good relationships but struggle with those tendencies. I find it interesting you said about how people manipulate and guilt-trip to try to get their needs met. It's very true and yet ends up causing the opposite effect. I have destroyed relationships or at least the closeness in relationships because of my manipulative behaviors but all this time later, I still struggle to recognize when I'm acting in that kind of a way. Unfortunately one thing I also struggle with is looking at others and taking memes and things stating about staying away from manipulators and gaslighters and such and instead of applying them to myself to make myself a better person, applying them to innocent people who actually were just setting boundaries on MY manipulation and MY gaslighting.
I'm a therapist and frankly, the trend of encouraging people to expect the planet to respect their "feelings" has backfired. I will not allow my patients to use that word. Assertive communication doesn't have to incorporate a reference to one's "feelings". Your example, "I feel like when you speak up and you mention or you kind of tease me a little bit about what I'm saying it really puts me in a negative light I'd like to ask you not to do that. Instead: I don't appreciate how you tease me, it's not funny. (...and don't engage beyond that--if the person tries it again in a meeting, you simply say, "I've told you that I don't appreciate your teasing me, it's not funny") You don't tell an abusive person that their antics are working, nor do you have to provide an explanation. Communications in America are predicated on petty games. I've noticed engineers have fewer communication issues than teachers or social service workers and they never use the word "feel" or "think". Their language is deliberate. My patients have told me that transiting away from "I feel" and "I think" language was extremely difficult but once established they've found that they're more in control of their space instead of expecting others to defer to their feelings, diminishing their standing/status, transactionally.
YES!!! You nailed it and explained this so well. I agree 100%. It's important to be assertive and straight to the point. Toxic people do not care about the feelings of others, appealing to that does not work. Thank you for confirming what I always kinda almost subconsciously knew.
I'd further add. Immediately addressing gives the abuser that you're not going to defer to decorum and exposes the abuser. They bank on you being timid/ "too nice." This approach has a 100% success rate. The abuser may attempt to give the impression that they're well meaning. My advice is to maintain your distance. A leopard can't change its spots.
You've even grown some grey hairs from studying manipulative behaviors and tendencies of toxic people all your life, old boy! However, I am enjoying the video. Appreciate your insight! : )
I know o need an apology from my x who’s has narcissist behaviors but I know I may never get one. It was like that with my mom, embrace yourself self esteem.
Is it common for someone with bpd to use manipulation/gaslighting when they are triggered or trying to prevent abandonment? If your bpd partner is doing that, are they to be lumped in to the statistic about how rare it is for an absuer to change? Or does treating the bpd fix that? What is the safest way to tell a bpd partner they’re using emotional abuse tactics? What boundaries/plan should be in place? If they use these tactics, I want space to recover emotionally and feel safe but that triggers their major abandonment wound. He has been in therapy for 5 years, has shown he is capable of change, he can apologize and take responsibility (though sometimes is initially defensive, but corrects himself after self reflection), he has done 1 year of DBT and did a lot of hard work and knows the skills well, though still struggles to use them during his major triggers. He was emotionally/verbally abused by his mom and ex spouse and I think he learned reactive abuse due to that. I want to give him at least one change to respond/address it, but don’t know how to say it without starting a bpd shame cycle. Also, how do you know if they are using their bpd as an excuse or if they’re actually struggling/working on changing? (He is not yet diagnosed with bpd, but doesn’t tell his therapist about the bpd blow ups…and I don’t know how to address this so he can get the help he really needs/proper diagnosis and treatment). Any advice would be helpful.
Now it's clear that I have quiet borderline... but my favourite person (so it's not love??) she has serious BPD and manipulative as well... Are we doomed... that's all ? I was alone for 10 years, and didn't even realize. Now this.
I was accused of 'gaslighting' when I told my friend, who insisted many times over after I had told the truth - *I wasn't flirting with her boyfriend.* I wish people were a bit more careful when educating about what gaslighting is. Differing opinions aren't gaslighting! And just because you feel another has an intention, it does not mean your interpretation overrides what they meant and telling the truth equals gaslighting because it doesn't align with your paranoia. I found this very hurtful. She accused all her friends and females she met of flirting with him. To this day it does not occur to her, she is the one gaslighting us, that others are doing things they aren't.
My brother was the most highly emotionally intelligent person I ever had the privilege of knowing. It took a lot to get him to react. He innately knew how to be indifferent. He simply wouldn't engage. He would carry a book with him wherever he went, and if arguments started in our family with my narcissistic father at the helm, he would slip away somewhere and check out and read his book, while the rest of us took my father's bait. When it came to saying no, my brother would say, "thanks, but you go ahead, you enjoy", "thanks, not my thing, but you have a great time". Always so respectful and gracious. He was so clever. I miss him dearly. He died 3yrs ago in his sleep at age 47.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It sounds like your brother had an incredible ability to navigate difficult situations with grace and wisdom. His memory clearly lives on through the impact he had on those around him.
I think what makes gaslighting gaslighting and not just lying is that it disrupts your ability to trust your own perception of reality.
Love your content! Watching your content has actually inspired me reconsider my career goals.
Adding on to my own comment here. Have you done any interviews talking about what it’s like to specialize in personality disorders. I find PDs to be fascinating and I like rooting for the underdogs. Thank you!
I turn into child like. I think I've done something wrong . Or that I'm less than. Then people roll over me. Again even the medical field does this because they don't understand us.
I wouldn't say a child because that offends me LMFAO but I definitely understand that feeling or what you mean, like we revert back to old habits, apologizing, giving up, sulking, shutting down. But then when we're split and raging it's the complete opposite and nobody should be within 300 ft of us because everything feels justified, go figure! it's so frustrating lol
@@Amused_Comfort_Inc the rage is justified, and i never feel guilty for it AT ALL…. if mfs didn’t “roll over us” then i wouldn’t have the rage to respond. always rage. destroy the enemy - robert green
I was severely abused by my diagnosed narcissistic mentally ill mother. I started studying teaching part-time and started working. Learning to say no was a deep learning process.
Wow she was actually diagnosed I think you need to unlearn everything she taught you. Except those random tidbits that are actually are true do not forget those
I am sorry.❤ I wish someone would diagnosed my mother but now she is too old... yeah so it doesn't matter though diagnosis or not no.changer right. It really makes no difference what you do there will never be a change to these people
I have successfully raised three wonderful adult children, together with my husband. I have unlearned many things with therapy. I still struggle, and that is okay. Life is good 🙏🏻
@ramonaharter6407 my mother went psychotic at 70 and was only diagnosed then. We had to get a plan together to get her help it wasn't easy.
Really good advice. I had to learn to say no by saying, "I'd rather not today, but thank you." Now I can just say no - or 'hell, no!' depending. Being raised with physical and emotional abuse and ending up marrying someone like my parents made it hard to say no. It's such a freedom to just be able to say no, and people stop expecting you to be manipulation easy. Better set of friends.
"Use them every day with everyone you know" I love that you encourage and insist that we use these strategies daily. The more we practice, the better we become at maintaining and respectng our boundaries. Thank you for the timely and easily applicable talking points.
I'm glad you found the strategies helpful! Keep setting those boundaries.
There are a lot of rude people in this world. People who treat others like garbage then turn it around and play victim. It is a Terrible world we live in.
It’s not a terrible world, but there are terrible people in it. We tend to find what we expect. Don’t let abuse become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
😂 my ex did it all the time
Thank you, Dr. Fox. Your empathy is much needed.
Australia here. Great teachings. I had a fellow choir member give a back handed compliment about my singing. I didn't react. I saw it for what it was. She was jealous. I don't go to her house anymore or deal with her much.
My mother was a narcissist, so I recognised her tactics early on.
It's impressive that you were able to recognize that behavior for what it was. It's important to surround ourselves with positive influences, and it sounds like you've made the right choice!
Thank you Dr Fox! Amazing video, helped me a lot
I'm so glad this video was helpful for you. I wish you well.
100 % totally followed your example of gaslighting lol no wonder I'm so dizzy all the time with vertigo. Vertigo is the physical component of being Gaslight
Really? How? I wonder if I have the same. The doctors found no explanation to my dizzinnes
The problem with gaslighting is that it is in between lies and truth. The gaslight say part of a truth and mix it with lies and since the brain can't deal with conflicting information, the confusion will began, making you more vulnerable. Ex; You caught a gaslighter flirting with another person, he/she says they are not flirting, just been overly polite or nice and that the victim is too sensitive and should trust them more. A part of you know they were flirting but the other part of you say that you are imagining things or that you can be indeed sensitive at times. Where is the truth and where is the lie?
Thank you for these scripts on how to handle this. I certainly struggle with how to handle things especially at work long hours in the night. Because you’re also stressed and tired and living abnormal life, and so I’ll freeze or maybe react. I need to build confidence in this area. Thank you Dr Fox for imparting a confidence.
My pleasure. Be well
Aww thanks. I hear what u are saying 100% I'm taking notes but I get it! I guess I just need a reminder
You got this!
so what are you supposed to do when someone with BPD devalues you around leaving snd then decides to break up with you. You are leaving town for a couple months & this triggers their fear of abandonment, they start to split on you, you don't know what is going on so you react by asking them to confirm they care about you, this drives them back further, you have some anxiety around partners pulling back already (let's say the bpd already once broke up with you the last time you left town).. and so you try your best to convince them of what is happening. But by now they have fully split on you.
is this manipulation? Yes I used guilt tripping.. She was telling me she loved me and then 2 weeks later boom! she is breaking up with me and leaving me. And she doesn't seem to realize what is happening.
Mind you I did not know what BPD is then... (she seems to have it paired with a body image issue that flares up when I leave town).
Of course she's been to therapy so she is hypervigilant about these sort of manipulation stuff.
I guess the reality is that I could not convince her to stay. And I wound up just making it all that much worse by trying to hold on.
This may be a sensitive or triggering comment but do you have a video or some information out about recognizing manipulative behaviors and relationship-harming behaviors in yourself? Though I didn't watch this to the end yet, I feel like that's important especially for those of us with BPD who want good relationships but struggle with those tendencies. I find it interesting you said about how people manipulate and guilt-trip to try to get their needs met. It's very true and yet ends up causing the opposite effect. I have destroyed relationships or at least the closeness in relationships because of my manipulative behaviors but all this time later, I still struggle to recognize when I'm acting in that kind of a way. Unfortunately one thing I also struggle with is looking at others and taking memes and things stating about staying away from manipulators and gaslighters and such and instead of applying them to myself to make myself a better person, applying them to innocent people who actually were just setting boundaries on MY manipulation and MY gaslighting.
Not directly address the topic but many videos can be seen through that perspective.
I struggle with all of this and i am 50 yrs old now.. I am a work in progress..
Thank you so much. This is what I need.
Glad it was helpful!
I'm a therapist and frankly, the trend of encouraging people to expect the planet to respect their "feelings" has backfired. I will not allow my patients to use that word. Assertive communication doesn't have to incorporate a reference to one's "feelings".
Your example, "I feel like when you speak up and you mention or you kind of tease me a little bit about what I'm saying it really puts me in a negative light I'd like to ask you not to do that.
Instead: I don't appreciate how you tease me, it's not funny. (...and don't engage beyond that--if the person tries it again in a meeting, you simply say, "I've told you that I don't appreciate your teasing me, it's not funny")
You don't tell an abusive person that their antics are working, nor do you have to provide an explanation. Communications in America are predicated on petty games. I've noticed engineers have fewer communication issues than teachers or social service workers and they never use the word "feel" or "think". Their language is deliberate. My patients have told me that transiting away from "I feel" and "I think" language was extremely difficult but once established they've found that they're more in control of their space instead of expecting others to defer to their feelings, diminishing their standing/status, transactionally.
Interesting insight. I always try to be fluid in my perspectives. Thanks for your comment.
YES!!! You nailed it and explained this so well. I agree 100%. It's important to be assertive and straight to the point. Toxic people do not care about the feelings of others, appealing to that does not work. Thank you for confirming what I always kinda almost subconsciously knew.
I'd further add. Immediately addressing gives the abuser that you're not going to defer to decorum and exposes the abuser. They bank on you being timid/ "too nice." This approach has a 100% success rate. The abuser may attempt to give the impression that they're well meaning. My advice is to maintain your distance. A leopard can't change its spots.
"Those Folks Won't Go Away"......
😓
So helpful, thank you Dr. Fox!
4:28 And crocodiles do the physical version of this, to eat their prey.
*Smiles
"Lookin For Change?"
thank you for clarification
You're most welcome
Thank you
I'm so glad this video was helpful for you. I wish you well.
You've even grown some grey hairs from studying manipulative behaviors and tendencies of toxic people all your life, old boy! However, I am enjoying the video. Appreciate your insight! : )
I know o need an apology from my x who’s has narcissist behaviors but I know I may never get one.
It was like that with my mom, embrace yourself self esteem.
Is it common for someone with bpd to use manipulation/gaslighting when they are triggered or trying to prevent abandonment? If your bpd partner is doing that, are they to be lumped in to the statistic about how rare it is for an absuer to change? Or does treating the bpd fix that? What is the safest way to tell a bpd partner they’re using emotional abuse tactics? What boundaries/plan should be in place? If they use these tactics, I want space to recover emotionally and feel safe but that triggers their major abandonment wound. He has been in therapy for 5 years, has shown he is capable of change, he can apologize and take responsibility (though sometimes is initially defensive, but corrects himself after self reflection), he has done 1 year of DBT and did a lot of hard work and knows the skills well, though still struggles to use them during his major triggers. He was emotionally/verbally abused by his mom and ex spouse and I think he learned reactive abuse due to that. I want to give him at least one change to respond/address it, but don’t know how to say it without starting a bpd shame cycle. Also, how do you know if they are using their bpd as an excuse or if they’re actually struggling/working on changing? (He is not yet diagnosed with bpd, but doesn’t tell his therapist about the bpd blow ups…and I don’t know how to address this so he can get the help he really needs/proper diagnosis and treatment). Any advice would be helpful.
Shitying on their obit helps dear
Now it's clear that I have quiet borderline... but my favourite person (so it's not love??) she has serious BPD and manipulative as well... Are we doomed... that's all ? I was alone for 10 years, and didn't even realize. Now this.
It sounds like a challenging situation, but remember that understanding and communication are key in any relationship.
I want a AI coffee machine for
a wife like evil plankton off
SpongeBob show.
I was accused of 'gaslighting' when I told my friend, who insisted many times over after I had told the truth - *I wasn't flirting with her boyfriend.* I wish people were a bit more careful when educating about what gaslighting is. Differing opinions aren't gaslighting! And just because you feel another has an intention, it does not mean your interpretation overrides what they meant and telling the truth equals gaslighting because it doesn't align with your paranoia. I found this very hurtful. She accused all her friends and females she met of flirting with him. To this day it does not occur to her, she is the one gaslighting us, that others are doing things they aren't.
Really you came here to discuss just got some flirting problems? No way...omg...it is u tho 100% guarantee
I'l
Click those lego lady lol
I will guarantee you are flirting with all of them you are the problem that's why you just said all those f****** words that made no sense
@@ramonaharter6407 How can you make such an assumption when you know absolutely NOTHING about this situation?
@@Crystalquartz964 Because he is an online abuser.