25mm on my deep section road wheels. They match the rim width nicely and weigh less. If I want more comfort I'll just switch to my gravel wheelset, don't see much point in going with some ~30mm compromise.
Currently run 36mm Challenge tires on my gravel bike and still manage to grab road KOMs. The effects of rolling resistance and aerodynamics are small compared to fitness. If your bike is more comfortable, you’re more likely to ride it longer and more frequently.
@Pablo Morales Let's say there's no handling or power output drawback to narrow bars. Are you keeping your elbows in line with your hands at all times? Because if you aren't, you're negating much of the aero advantages of narrow bars. It's like riding a small frame with a slammed stem: in theory it's more aero, but in practice you can't stay in the right position for a substantial length of time before locking your elbows, throwing all those aero gains out the window.
@Pablo Morales There is something called structural drag reduction. It is basically an object breaking the wind for an object behind it. If your arm is in a straight line with your hand in the bent elbows position you get that drag reduction all the way up the forearm. If the elbows are wingin' it Froome style then they're likely outside the zone in which the hand and subsequent forearm section are breaking the wind. You could also experience an upward rotation of your shoulder blades pushing your shoulders up towards your ears and elbows even wider. While the shoulder position could be more aero like a turtling head tuck it is unlikely when it's forced rather than relaxed into. Having the bars too narrow can also fix the shoulder blades in a forward position rounding off the shoulders. This could prevent a turtle head tuck and might push the head higher than even your standard road position. To me it seems you are the one looking at the hands in isolation and only considering the leading edge. Water is a pretty bad example too, because water is a much higher resistance and slower moving fluid especially compared to the speed of the diver. Diving is also a very brief activity, so the initial drag reduction in breaking the water surface is quite important. I get that in a timetrial there is merit to what you're saying, but in a timetrial you have significantly shorter distances, armpad support and at the pro level you won't need to look up much and strain your neck. It is much less important to consider ergonomics on a TT bike than a road bike and discomfort is much less likely to affect your ability to maintain your aerodynamics.
I agree with all the data shown but as a mechanical engineer the mass of the rider needs to be considered. When you hit a bump the mass of the rider is thrown upwards this uses energy. If you ride on a very rough road and your body is bouncing up and down there is a lot of potential energy being used up. Try free wheeling down hill on a rough road next to a friend, If you sit firmly on the saddle with your arms stiff on the bars you will be bounced up and down but if you come of the saddle a little and flex your arms you will absorb most of the vibrations and your body will not bounce up and down as much. You will find that the later riding position will descend much faster. The effect also happens with tyres that absorb more of the road noise especially on rough roads. I remember when we were all riding on 18mm tyres at 120 PSI !!
I rode the coast of Oregon in the US this past June with a tubeless 28 mm set up. Fast, smooth, predictable and no flats even in the instance of being blown off the road by the gust of a passing semi. The roads were pristine to rather course throughout the distance.. I would repeat the same setup and recommend everything I did. Used hed Ardennes wheels Teravail tires orange seal sealant
One of the most comprehensive videos on tyre width testing. Brilliant and perfectly demonstrated! I ride in Singapore where majority of the road conditions range from fair to smooth, even tarmac. We hardly get any cobble roads here. So I would say 25mm wide tyres for me though I am really keen to test out the comfort of 28mm tyres.
Thank you for making this video, i have been saying this on my channel. But you get nay sayers. I have been saying the biggest influence is road surface and the ability of the tyre to absorb the imperfections in the road, either soft flexible sidewalls or a bigger volume of air to absorb these imperfections. So what is the faster tyre? "it depends". On good surfaces 21-25mm higher pressures are the best for aero, but as the road surface deteriorates the importance of road surface imperfections becomes the dominant energy to overcome. Everytime you ride over a bump, the forward energy needs to lift the bike and rider taking energy away from the forward motion. Therefore high pressure, skinny tyres for good surfaces, wider lower pressures, for poor surfaces. There is no overall "faster tyre"
I've used 23, 25, 28 and 32C over the years. I like 25 for dry summer riding and 32 for wet/rutted/muddy roads in winter. 23c can feel comfortable with a good supple casing, but feel skittish and don't inspire confidence over bumps. 25c feel as fast as 23 but more composed and grippy. 28c don't feel much different to 25c on typical roads, but don't have enough volume to feel confident on rough roads like 32c. 32c have a lot more cushion and grip but are slower and heavier. I think this trade off is worth it in winter IMO, so put them on my gravel bike for road riding.
I have a set of teravail ramparts 32. Not a big name but they are extremely durable tires. They're heavier than most but they're made right here in Minnesota. And honestly after putting that many miles I'd buy them again. Regardless of weight.
I run a gravel bike with 2 sets of wheels. My road wheels have Panaracer Gravelking slicks in 32mm and they’re perfect for British roads. They might be a bit slower but I prefer the cushion and the lack of skittishness. Perfect for audax.
I‘m doing the same, but went even wider on the gravel bike with the panaracer slicks 35mm, but they actually are 38mm measured - maybe need to try the 32mm ones. This is also a setup to explore new roads, so I dont have to stop when there is rougher gravel. In the dry I run 25mm on my road bike. For both tires I found that the tubeless setup gives a lot of comfort. Also lighter tires feel a bit more responsible but the weight of the tires on a climb is not really important. I already came close to my PR with the gravel bike which is around 1kg heavier also on 25mm tires. I think I will hammer some segments on Strava on the 35mm tires to compare times also on flat roads, but I am sure the aero loss is not that big (I have a very similar position on both bikes and 45mm rim depth on both).
As a younger rider in my youth I liked 23c on my road bike, but as the years go on and I gotten wider I’ve found my tyres have widened too!!! Now run 32c tyres nice and comfortable for my old body 😄
I think depends on the race. In the US our races are mostly crits with a lot of 90 degree hard turns. The 28-30c tires are definitely most common these days because you can corner at faster speeds
Wider tire at same pressure is less rolling resistance...that's easy to understand. The struggle is figuring out how much lower pressure you can go in that wider tire before reaching (or exceeding) the same rolling resistance as the narrower tire.
@@philiprobar Lowering pressure increases rolling resistance. This is a fact. The way it was made up for was by going wider. The caveat is at some point there will be a negative return on going too low with a wider tire. For instance, running 120PSI in a 25c GP5000 is faster (less resistance) than running 60PSI in a 28c GP5000. Bicycle Rolling Resistance has some good info for members, but they unfortunately don't do enough testing in different tire widths at different pressures, and the database is not comprehensive enough and some of the tests/tires are several years old.
@@philiprobar Bike Quarterly testing has way too many external variables to pretend they're actually a better test than lab controlled drum. Their main concern is also supple casing vs rigid casing tires, they don't even recognize the conundrum of same tire model across different sizes because their own testing was inconclusive.
0:25 simple answer, traction mtb and gravel tires have treads designed to grab onto the terrain (usually gravel, dirt and rock) and prevent slipping and sliding. On the pavement, that works against us because the tread works as intended, creating more friction and therefore, not giving much acceleration
Running wider tires with the same air pressure, is missing one of the points. If you look at the science behind the wider tires recommendations, one of the factor is that vibration caused by higher tire pressure is energy lost and that it also causes more rider fatigue.
Not vibration caused by higher pressure. Vibration from pressures TOO high 90psi, 25mm, on bad UK roads works for a lot of surfaces for 75kg me This video says exactly what bicyclerollingresistance says. Identical rolling resistance for different tyre widths when they're setup to offer the same tyre compression
@@Mike0 Agreed. The video threw me off when they explained their testing protocol, but indeed looking at the whole video they do mention it. Just their first test/protocol was ... sorta useless ... but they got around to it later in the video, so yeah, all good.
Wow...you've got this set up extremely well...I think with the 30's, even with all being equal, you are still left with greater air volume to make for a better more comfortable ride albeit the trade off slight weight gain. I moved up from 23's to 28's for riding on stone aggregate exposed bitumen roads in my area, the buzzing vibrations were almost totally eliminated using the 28 Conti's at around 70~75psi, definitely a faster setup under the conditions than 23's at 100psi.
My sweet spot used to be GP4000 28s for long distance ultra racing. They measured 30mm on my rims and were my sweetspot for my type of riding. Recent Conti tyres such as 5000 and 4seasons now measure true to size. I’ve had to switch to 30c schwalbe ones as Conti 32mm I feel are too big a jump.
Damn, how narrow are those handlebars? Personally, I roll up to all my group rides on a Fat bike but I think your main point of pick tires, tire pressure and tire width based on road surfaces for the fastest setup. 👌
Interesting video but a bit beside the point. I'm an ME working in vehicle dynamics. Rolling resistance is a function of hysteresis in the rubber tire casing and tube at a molecular level as well as friction between the too. These power losses are expelled as heat energy when the rubber deforms into the shape of the road surface. Formula one racing tires get hot! As tire pressure increases the contact patch gets smaller and deformation in the tire required to form the contact patch is lessened resulting in less rolling resistance. The difference in frontal area of a 700x26c and 700x30c is insignificant (about 28cm^2) compared to the human and bike (about 5,500 cm^2) at cycling speeds (
the answer is, if anyone has hit a rough section of bad tarmac on 25's at 90psi and felt there speed drop whilst the bike skitters all over the bloody place then 32mm tyres are the palce to be
If knowing you're going as fast as possible is what you enjoy, go narrow. You will feel faster. If you, like me, want a fast bike that makes you want to jump off curbs and just have fun, 32s is the way to go. Just switched and I'm having so much fun on my bike now. The comfort between the two is night and day. It does feel a little sluggish, but personally I think the trade off is well worth it.
I ride 25mm and I actually just started road biking. I'm actually a mountainbiker and I generally feel like the road is very rough. My mtb was such a soft flowy ride to commute, but I needed something faster and more efficient. I run my 25mm at 7.0 Bar.
I ride 28mm back and 25 front, I'm 68kg. If I were bigger I'd probably ride both at 28mm. Psi is low enough that it's soft but not bouncy. Aslo it's true that after 1hr plus of riding, your faster if your still comfortable.
I had a trek Madone (pre-aero) that I ran with 23mm tires pumped up over 100psi. Hit a bit of oil on the road and they found me unconscious. On my new bike, 2020 Domane, I ran 32mm GP 5000 for the last two seasons (roughly 4,000km per season) and loved the comfort and traction benefits. If they slowed me down I’m not aware of it. For this season I’ve installed 28mm GP5000 (new model). Hopefully I don’t give up too much in comfort and traction. I have XXX4 wheels so the 32mm were creating a bit of a lightbulb effect on the wheels, undoubtedly spoiling any aero benefits the wheels might have delivered. The 28mm looks to blend better...
If you set the tire pressures so that the casing tension was identical then the wider tire would likely have more rolling resistance than the lower tire purely because there would still be a larger contact patch.
Just a normal flared dropbar, pretty popular on gravel. He's got them quite narrow and hoods angled in so he can get into a TT position more easily. Setup arguably made popular by Dan Bigham.
I used to associate harsh ride feel with speed and rode 23mm tires at over 100 PSI. Twenty+ years later, I now associate long term comfort, grip, and stability with speed using 32mm tires at ~65 PSI while riding awful roads in the Midwestern USA. Wide tires offer the added bonus of being able to ride gravel rails-to-trails trails with no problem.
Thank you for this. I have wheels with 21 mm internal width and I am testing a shift from 28mm with standard butyl tubes to 26 mm with lighter butyl inner tubes. Not sure if it will make it a difference. Setup change maybe 100 g lighter. Still trying to find that sweet spot. My hope is the specialised turbo pro 26 are just a bit wider than 26 in the real world. Compared to the Vittora Rubino pro 28mm.
Many variables even for the same bike. The same tube is thinner on the bigger tire so less rolling resistance. Slightly wider tire than rim is more aero as other UA-camrs claim so you should have 2 rim widths for the test. And for the tire pressure you should have more pressure tests to find the optimal pressure for each tire width and heart rate should be involved in the test as the comfy one might give more speed while maintaining the same heart rate. I hope to see another video to show once and for all which is the better choice
Over 90% of bike riders don’t have a spare wheel set, much less for considering different width tires. The video is aimed at regular road bike riding people, who ride for recreation and/or fitness- not racers with greater equipment requirements and resources. I agree that more could’ve been done with finding optimal tire pressure, but the video did briefly mention that, and that extrapolated out, the differences for the non-racer are almost none. Basically, the video shows that if you want a wider tire for comfort, you don’t sacrifice speed.
Contact area is a function of pressure only. For a given pressure the smaller tire and larger tire will have the same contact area. However you are correct in that the casing tension will be larger for the larger diameter tire, roughly 15 percent.
@Pablo Morales Well, yes, and I see what you're trying to say, but without inflation the tyre casing is not very stiff at all, so its stiffness is created by (and probably proportional to) the inflation pressure. I'd need to think about this (or can you provide a complete reference to support this statement?), but I feel that everything would come out in the mathematical wash and you'd find that contact patch is indeed proportional to tyre pressure.
@Pablo Morales Well yes, and clearly car tyres in particular have much higher inherent stiffness as they don't change shape much when deflated. Road bike tyres do not retain their shape very well when deflated - and in particular do blow up somewhat like the balloon example you give, although they're obviously nowhere near so elastic. Anyway, it can't be that complicated to model as it's mostly Newtonian physics, so there must be references somewhere? (btw, there's a converse example for your steel roller example - how does it deform when subjected to very high load?)
@Pablo Morales Well, that's because the wall shape changes, which (presumably, based on experiment) results in less loss of energy in the sidewall due to the sidewall flex when loaded. Anyway, I really would be interested in a solid (engineering/maths) reference to this. It's clear that inflation affects sidewall tension (the magnitude and angle of which is responsible for transmitting the load ultimately), which will affect the deflection of the sidewall as it's loaded, and hence the contact patch shape at the very least. Mind experiments aren't enough though - it still isn't clear to me that the area of the contact patch would not fall out of a proper analysis as dependent on pressure alone. I'm not dismissing what you say as true, but I'd like to see the solid proof! (Experimental even).
@Pablo Morales Sorry - missed that. I'll have a look at it if I can find a library copy. In the meantime though, I had a quick look. e.g, these: the-contact-patch.com/book/road/c2019-the-contact-patch www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/research/reports/384/docs/384.pdf has an extensive literature review etc. The first explicitly states that the sidewall carries ca. 5% of the load, which leaves the "contact patch" to carry the rest...which is supported by the tyre pressure. And that's for a car tyre. Obviously the distribution of stress in a tyre is complex, but it does seem that to first approximation my the initial statement is correct.
If you’re riding with a group you normally slipstream the bike in front negating any aerodynamic disadvantage. If you’re in the front then those behind will go at your pace albeit that you have to put out 5 watts more with your fat tyres over the thin ones. Give me the comfort of my 28s any day!
I was using 25c tubeless vittoria corsa next tires on my Bontrager Aeolus comp rim. Recently i have upgraded my rims, purchased Zipp 353 NSW hookless rim set and put 28c vittoria corsa next tires on them. I feel much faster and comfortable with new wheelset and wider tires. But i feel the Zipp 353 NSW is minimum 28c and i should go wider. Now ordered Vittoria corsa next 30c. I will tell the difference when tires arrives and i put them on. My frame says 32c maximum tire clearence (Trek Madone)
TLDR; different tyre widths, the same comfort & rolling resistance 23mm@92 psi = 25mm@87 psi = 28mm@81 psi = 32mm@75 psi 23mm@100psi with be more aero 32mm@65psi will be smoother, and offer more compression before bottoming out for similar rolling resistance as 85psi 25mm
The test results make sense. The entire set of conclusions about the "smooth" surface was based not on test results but the same old tried nonsense that everyone assumes is correct. You removed more air and pressure as a percentage and skewed the results. Plus, how wide were these tires really? My measurements show skinny tires are often close to spec, and wide ones offen fall short. How hard would to be to do a dozen or more tests on each tire at various pressures and find the sweet.spot for lowest resistance. Then use that for the outside tests.
Some testers test only different width tyres at the same pressure, but the optimal pressure of the wide tyre, which is totally out of realistic conditions, totally worthless
Hi, I would say that comparison between tyre sizes depends on the internal width of the rim. My old but best wheels are only 15mm wide (internal) and I use 25mm tyres, which just fit on my 15 year old rim brake best bike. My new winter bike , which will be delivered in November, will have 32mm fitted for the English winter 😀
Im really curious about why the cycling scientist working in aerodynamic field didnt find out the ‘aeroest’ width decades ago? They were using 22/23mm most of the time.
Oh my god, another one of these… I guess it’s tradition that every year each bike news/review website should do at least one “ArE wIdEr TyReS fAsTeR?” “test”. Just do a regular product highlight without pretending it’s some kind of “test”
I like the video, and mostly agree, but -but- I have a hard time believing that the 4mm difference between 26mm and 30mm tires (tyres) can have any significant aero difference for the vast majority of riders, given the relatively gigantic aero profile of the bike and rider overall. Skinnier tires almost certainly still have a place in road riding, but, as you mentioned, it has a lot more to with weight than with air resistance. Honestly, if you want to ride faster, your best bet is probably just to lose 3kg from your own body.
My preference is 25mm tires. I tried 28's but really didn't like it. Could be the rolling weight of the Cinturato Velo's that I was running. I just felt sluggish, and slow to get up to speed. I switched to 25mm GP5000 AS TR, set them up between 65-70 PSI - which thankfully I can do thanks to tubeless tech. I'll take the lower weight too.
I weigh 185lb and regularly do hundred mile fast-ish rides. I’ve zeroed in on 30mm tires at about 70psi tubeless. 28mm were harsh pumped up and I’d pinch flat on hard bumps. 32mm felt like balloon tires disconnected from the road.
Try the front tire at a lower pressure ! Yeah put a little more in the rear than those calculators " " "suggest " . Anyway that will lower your rolling resistance and avoid the pinch. The front tire at a lower pressure will give you a good contact patch and and be comfortable. I often have a different tire up front too. Sticky with lower flat protection. ...rather loose the rear wheel first. So the rear I opt for more flat protection and longevity. You naturally have more grip in the back because of the weight distribution. Experiment and go with what is right for you. Spoke tension is also a factor and should be adjusted ( there is some room to play here ) to the riders weight and riding habits. Everone has a different fit and riding style...above all enjoy and ride like the wind.
Are your sure it's not local councils encouraging wider tyres so they don't have to maintain roads? I find little comfort improvement between 25 and 28, but I do notice the extra weight.
There is zero chance you notice the extra weight. Depending on the tire, the difference between 25 and 28 mm tires is 15-20 grams. When and what you last ate, when you last went to the bathroom, what you are wearing, and other factors would have more impact on weight than that. And none of that is frankly very important unless you are a high-level, competitive crit racer or climber, and even then 20 grams is not meaningful.
@@donadams5094 it was actually a little bit more than that plus the larger tubes. Regardless the extra rotating weight definitely makes acceleration sluggish. Your comparison to body weight is as we all know not the same as riding a lighter bike which definitely makes a substantial difference.
@11:37: is it me, or is that tire not installed correctly (according to the check line on the tire that should be at equal distance to the rim, but disappears into the rim on the right side of the sceen)? Otherwise, great comprehensive and clear video. Good work!
Wider tires that aren't any better offer the advantage of killing the rim brake by stealth. Industry propaganda. The evidence suggests the width sweet spot is already 25-28mm.. I've got 40mm tires on my commuter and yes they are Pirelli, and they are less aero, heavier and generally feel sluggish. But comfort? If you haven't learnt to stand up on rough sections of road yet, now is probably the time to learn. The bike will be getting 25mm contis next, maybe 28mm, a size that matches the actual internal rim width. It seems like the bike industry is desperate for my money, I already own about twenty bikes in two countries with every kind of brake. My favourite bikes are road rim/DM alloy frame lightweight 1300-1400- gram alloy shallow wheels, cf seat post, bars and fork. With Conti GP5000 tires & waxed chain, mostly extremal cables. These bikes can keep up with anything, yes you lose a few watts over their hyper aero cousins, but I want to be able to work on the bike myself, plus they only cost £2-3000 not £5-10000. The industry seems desperate to add 500 grams to my favourite summer road bike and charge me double for it, but it's never going to happen. You can call me a retro-grouch or some other term, but I've got loads of Mountain bikes and gravel/commuter bikes with many kinds of hydraulic disk, I know exactly what I want and summer road disk isn't it.
a 25mm tyre will always be faster than a 30mm tyre on an average tarmaced road. If you're in a race you should never use a tyre larger than 25mm on the front wheel, and you can use up to a 28 on the rear. Personally I use 23mm front and 26mm rear (fast cotton sidewall tyres with latex tubes). This is the most aerodynamic set up while still having good comfort, cornering ability, and weight. Another thing is that your tyre width is entirely determined by the external width of your rims, the tyres should always be the same or slightly smaller than the width of the rims. The only time you should use 28mm tyres front and rear is for casual riding, gravel races, and road races with cobbled sections.
Trend is wider tires. Factors are climbing ride, or many starts and stops? For the folks looking to increase their tire width, their existing fork/frames may be the limiting factor. I have a few frames the max is either 23mm or 28mm. I just bought a new frame to allow me to go to 28mm, and also a 2nd for that allows me to go to 40mm. 90+ percent of the time I'm riding on a paved road, the rest, will alternate onto an unpaved rail path road.
good to normal roads. : 28mm normal to rough roads : 32mm bad roads and gravel : 40mm at least ( so depending on the conditions and also on the basic level of comfort one wants to ride with, also on the bike itself of course !! )
Overall I love this! There's the tubeless element does effect this. I found ride even faster on lower psi. I generally roll on 28s and don't ever go higher than 65psi and weigh 75kg. Each time i've gone higher, I've had no material gain in speed, I thought I was going faster, but I wasn't. This winter, I'll be on 30 or even 32s.
The curvature of rollers is not comparable to a flat road. This will significantly affect relative rolling resistance. Best to revise the experimental design. Otherwise an interesting study
Sorry but contact area is not afected by tyre width, but by tyre pressure anf force applied only Surface contact = Force/Presure What changes is the shape of the contact area and how the suppleness of the tyre affects rolling resistence.
The conclusion is: If inflated to proper pressures for each, there's no significant difference between the rolling resistance of tyres of the same construction. But, wider tyres offer more comfort and more grip. So the answer seems to be simple - wider is better.
"If wider tires are faster, why aren't gravel bikes or MTBs faster?" this rhetorical question is born from the kind of dumb analysis that abounds these days.
Tried 25s after being on 23s for years. Found out that 25s corner better downhill (more grip). I use 28s on my city commuter road bike where comfort is a little more important than speed. Anything wider than that is too heavy, too "un-aero" and negates the purpose of a dedicated road bike altogether.
Hola, que modelo y de que año es la GIANT del vídeo? Tengo una GIANT TCR la primera que salió con discos de freno y quiero montar 30mm, pero no se si lo admitiría el cuadro, de momento llevó 28mm sin problemas. La otra duda es si mis ruedas BORA WTO 45 DISC admitirían neumáticos de 30mm ?
I beg your pardon Kind Sir. Hope you will not mind stepping into my world with all its weirdness. Road bike and i weight 132 kg + i go shopping for food with it + 15kg. Total weight 147kg. After all of my research i have understood that my only safe option is 700 x 25 mm tire with 9 bars. i could only find one tire in the world with 9 bars - the higest available preasure. It is Vittoria Zaffiro Pro V G2.0. Any advice would be highly appretiated.
I ride for transportation, not racing. 29x76mm roll over pot holes, rocks, small animals, and so forth. Obviously others have different needs and goals than I do. Any tire that makes my bike more fun is a win for me.
The issue is about rolling resistance. The narrower and higher tier pressures lead to smaller contact patches and less rolling resistance. If your worried about aero dynamics your kidding your self. You would be better off moving to tt bars if your that worried. The best thing to do is test a 24cm and see if your ass can handle it. If you still enjoy the ride than it’s for you. If it’s too harsh move to a 25, 26, or even 28.
soooo l have two bikes one with 25s one with 32s both are fast enough ,25 @ 100psi ,32@ 90psi , this allows me to ride more often w/o having to inflate them as much . Narrow responds faster to inputs BUT wider is much more smoother and handles more road/gravel irregularities Definitely more comfortable !! IF YOU CAN GO WIDER AND DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU WEIGH ADJUST TIRE PRESSURES ACCORDINGLY
Most roads I ride on are fairly smooth. So my range s 25 to 32. Let me clarify, my road bikes 25 to 28 (depends on brand), My grocery getter 28 to 32 (depends on brand). Bikes have different rim widths. but I have found streets in NYC 5 boroughs that require "fat tires"!
Manufacturers want people to use widest tire they can to compensate the disc brake locking up the wheels race cars don't stop in shorter distance because of bigger brakes they do depending on how wide tires are big brakes are used just to minimize brake fading due to hi temperatures caused by constant braking
What tyre width do you use? Do you prefer more traditional 23mm or 25mm tyres? Or are you all in on wider rubber? Let us know in the comments!
No idea stick with 25mm…
26/27/28.
I like whatever's cheaper •_•
I wouldn’t believe the bs about wider tyres. 25mm are fine. Price hikes for wider tyres no thanks
25mm on my deep section road wheels. They match the rim width nicely and weigh less. If I want more comfort I'll just switch to my gravel wheelset, don't see much point in going with some ~30mm compromise.
Let me save you 15 minutes: Wider tires for rougher roads (traction). Narrow tires for smoother roads (aerodynamics). enjoy!
Hey thanks!
Great summary, but I still enjoyed this very orderly and sensible 15 minute version. Gives me more reasons to believe.
O
Yes... thanks 😎
Wait isnt the other way around…. Man Im about to send My hunt wheels back smh
Currently run 36mm Challenge tires on my gravel bike and still manage to grab road KOMs. The effects of rolling resistance and aerodynamics are small compared to fitness. If your bike is more comfortable, you’re more likely to ride it longer and more frequently.
Facts, I’m running 37mm on my topstone and in agreement to everything you said.
absolutely true
Kom are about legs, not bikes
Are you running a 2x or 1x gearing?
Not all Koms are equal. Anyone can get a Kom really.
"Wider tires offer better comfort and control" says man on 20 cm bars.
You’ve never ridden narrow drop bars have you? They feel awesome on tye road! And they’re faster
@@Advcrazy I live in an urban area near mountains; long climbs, descents, and broken asphalt, where narrow bars wouldn't make much sense.
@Pablo Morales Let's say there's no handling or power output drawback to narrow bars. Are you keeping your elbows in line with your hands at all times? Because if you aren't, you're negating much of the aero advantages of narrow bars. It's like riding a small frame with a slammed stem: in theory it's more aero, but in practice you can't stay in the right position for a substantial length of time before locking your elbows, throwing all those aero gains out the window.
i think 38cm below much more comfy to navigate the bunch on race. Idk but if youre racing you should consider switching to narrower bar
@Pablo Morales There is something called structural drag reduction. It is basically an object breaking the wind for an object behind it. If your arm is in a straight line with your hand in the bent elbows position you get that drag reduction all the way up the forearm. If the elbows are wingin' it Froome style then they're likely outside the zone in which the hand and subsequent forearm section are breaking the wind. You could also experience an upward rotation of your shoulder blades pushing your shoulders up towards your ears and elbows even wider. While the shoulder position could be more aero like a turtling head tuck it is unlikely when it's forced rather than relaxed into. Having the bars too narrow can also fix the shoulder blades in a forward position rounding off the shoulders. This could prevent a turtle head tuck and might push the head higher than even your standard road position. To me it seems you are the one looking at the hands in isolation and only considering the leading edge. Water is a pretty bad example too, because water is a much higher resistance and slower moving fluid especially compared to the speed of the diver. Diving is also a very brief activity, so the initial drag reduction in breaking the water surface is quite important. I get that in a timetrial there is merit to what you're saying, but in a timetrial you have significantly shorter distances, armpad support and at the pro level you won't need to look up much and strain your neck. It is much less important to consider ergonomics on a TT bike than a road bike and discomfort is much less likely to affect your ability to maintain your aerodynamics.
I agree with all the data shown but as a mechanical engineer the mass of the rider needs to be considered. When you hit a bump the mass of the rider is thrown upwards this uses energy. If you ride on a very rough road and your body is bouncing up and down there is a lot of potential energy being used up. Try free wheeling down hill on a rough road next to a friend, If you sit firmly on the saddle with your arms stiff on the bars you will be bounced up and down but if you come of the saddle a little and flex your arms you will absorb most of the vibrations and your body will not bounce up and down as much. You will find that the later riding position will descend much faster. The effect also happens with tyres that absorb more of the road noise especially on rough roads. I remember when we were all riding on 18mm tyres at 120 PSI !!
At 220 pounds I was told in 1989 to ride on 140psi with 23 Continental tires. It was harsh and uncomfortable for more than 45 minutes.
not entirely true. a more aero position can easily outplay that tiny loss in friction.
I am fat and I bounced up and down so much it made me incontinental
Thats why I use the Redshift suspension system ;)
Is it just my eyes? Or are his handlebars terrifyingly narrow?
Is your bike a terrifying handful when you’re holding the tops? Handlebars can be narrow.
Those narrow bars look ugly
They are narrow for wanting to be aero at all costs
@@oldmancycling7440 It's not a beauty contest
narrow bars are aero
I rode the coast of Oregon in the US this past June with a tubeless 28 mm set up. Fast, smooth, predictable and no flats even in the instance of being blown off the road by the gust of a passing semi. The roads were pristine to rather course throughout the distance.. I would repeat the same setup and recommend everything I did. Used hed Ardennes wheels Teravail tires orange seal sealant
What tires did you use?
One of the most comprehensive videos on tyre width testing. Brilliant and perfectly demonstrated!
I ride in Singapore where majority of the road conditions range from fair to smooth, even tarmac. We hardly get any cobble roads here. So I would say 25mm wide tyres for me though I am really keen to test out the comfort of 28mm tyres.
Thank you for making this video, i have been saying this on my channel. But you get nay sayers.
I have been saying the biggest influence is road surface and the ability of the tyre to absorb the imperfections in the road, either soft flexible sidewalls or a bigger volume of air to absorb these imperfections. So what is the faster tyre? "it depends".
On good surfaces 21-25mm higher pressures are the best for aero, but as the road surface deteriorates the importance of road surface imperfections becomes the dominant energy to overcome. Everytime you ride over a bump, the forward energy needs to lift the bike and rider taking energy away from the forward motion.
Therefore high pressure, skinny tyres for good surfaces, wider lower pressures, for poor surfaces.
There is no overall "faster tyre"
One of the best videos I've seen on tire width vs. rolling resistance. Well done for taking the time to dive into the details that matter.
I've used 23, 25, 28 and 32C over the years. I like 25 for dry summer riding and 32 for wet/rutted/muddy roads in winter.
23c can feel comfortable with a good supple casing, but feel skittish and don't inspire confidence over bumps.
25c feel as fast as 23 but more composed and grippy.
28c don't feel much different to 25c on typical roads, but don't have enough volume to feel confident on rough roads like 32c.
32c have a lot more cushion and grip but are slower and heavier. I think this trade off is worth it in winter IMO, so put them on my gravel bike for road riding.
I have a set of teravail ramparts 32. Not a big name but they are extremely durable tires. They're heavier than most but they're made right here in Minnesota. And honestly after putting that many miles I'd buy them again. Regardless of weight.
I run a gravel bike with 2 sets of wheels. My road wheels have Panaracer Gravelking slicks in 32mm and they’re perfect for British roads. They might be a bit slower but I prefer the cushion and the lack of skittishness. Perfect for audax.
@@ohne_speed Good point, I'm quite light so 25c are about right between 80-85psi.
I‘m doing the same, but went even wider on the gravel bike with the panaracer slicks 35mm, but they actually are 38mm measured - maybe need to try the 32mm ones. This is also a setup to explore new roads, so I dont have to stop when there is rougher gravel.
In the dry I run 25mm on my road bike.
For both tires I found that the tubeless setup gives a lot of comfort.
Also lighter tires feel a bit more responsible but the weight of the tires on a climb is not really important. I already came close to my PR with the gravel bike which is around 1kg heavier also on 25mm tires.
I think I will hammer some segments on Strava on the 35mm tires to compare times also on flat roads, but I am sure the aero loss is not that big (I have a very similar position on both bikes and 45mm rim depth on both).
@@ohne_speed similar weight i do 7bar @25c on roadbike and 5bar @35c on gravelbike still prefer sunny days on the roadbike
As a younger rider in my youth I liked 23c on my road bike, but as the years go on and I gotten wider I’ve found my tyres have widened too!!! Now run 32c tyres nice and comfortable for my old body 😄
I think and feel 28c has a sweet spot for endurance rides.
25c for the races and 30-32c gravel when the path and weather get sketchy
Hi brother can you give instagram id
Agree
I think depends on the race. In the US our races are mostly crits with a lot of 90 degree hard turns. The 28-30c tires are definitely most common these days because you can corner at faster speeds
Bang on advice! I ride rough countryside ‘paved’ roads and have too found that 28mm is ideal all-around.
Wider tire at same pressure is less rolling resistance...that's easy to understand. The struggle is figuring out how much lower pressure you can go in that wider tire before reaching (or exceeding) the same rolling resistance as the narrower tire.
Bicycle Quarterly says as wide as you can go and as low as you can go.
@@philiprobar Lowering pressure increases rolling resistance. This is a fact. The way it was made up for was by going wider. The caveat is at some point there will be a negative return on going too low with a wider tire. For instance, running 120PSI in a 25c GP5000 is faster (less resistance) than running 60PSI in a 28c GP5000. Bicycle Rolling Resistance has some good info for members, but they unfortunately don't do enough testing in different tire widths at different pressures, and the database is not comprehensive enough and some of the tests/tires are several years old.
@@cup_and_cone Any testing done on rollers is fundamentally flawed. Again, Bicycle Quarterly has documented this extensively.
@@philiprobar Bike Quarterly testing has way too many external variables to pretend they're actually a better test than lab controlled drum. Their main concern is also supple casing vs rigid casing tires, they don't even recognize the conundrum of same tire model across different sizes because their own testing was inconclusive.
@@cup_and_cone Depends greatly on the road surface.
0:25 simple answer, traction mtb and gravel tires have treads designed to grab onto the terrain (usually gravel, dirt and rock) and prevent slipping and sliding. On the pavement, that works against us because the tread works as intended, creating more friction and therefore, not giving much acceleration
Running wider tires with the same air pressure, is missing one of the points. If you look at the science behind the wider tires recommendations, one of the factor is that vibration caused by higher tire pressure is energy lost and that it also causes more rider fatigue.
Not vibration caused by higher pressure. Vibration from pressures TOO high
90psi, 25mm, on bad UK roads works for a lot of surfaces for 75kg me
This video says exactly what bicyclerollingresistance says. Identical rolling resistance for different tyre widths when they're setup to offer the same tyre compression
Well done for commenting before watching the whole video
@@michaelwillis4528 Thanks! It took alot of efforts, i'm happy you appreciate it!
@@Mike0 Agreed. The video threw me off when they explained their testing protocol, but indeed looking at the whole video they do mention it. Just their first test/protocol was ... sorta useless ... but they got around to it later in the video, so yeah, all good.
Wow...you've got this set up extremely well...I think with the 30's, even with all being equal, you are still left with greater air volume to make for a better more comfortable ride albeit the trade off slight weight gain.
I moved up from 23's to 28's for riding on stone aggregate exposed bitumen roads in my area, the buzzing vibrations were almost totally eliminated using the 28 Conti's at around 70~75psi, definitely a faster setup under the conditions than 23's at 100psi.
28mm plus is also a benefit to bike manufacturers as most pre 2015 frames won't fit them! Cha ching!
My sweet spot used to be GP4000 28s for long distance ultra racing. They measured 30mm on my rims and were my sweetspot for my type of riding.
Recent Conti tyres such as 5000 and 4seasons now measure true to size.
I’ve had to switch to 30c schwalbe ones as Conti 32mm I feel are too big a jump.
I still ride on 23 mm tires and I don't have any problems with it. I guess I've got used to them over the years.
@King Of Crunk 8 years old Canyon CF SLX
Damn, how narrow are those handlebars? Personally, I roll up to all my group rides on a Fat bike but I think your main point of pick tires, tire pressure and tire width based on road surfaces for the fastest setup. 👌
Interesting video but a bit beside the point. I'm an ME working in vehicle dynamics. Rolling resistance is a function of hysteresis in the rubber tire casing and tube at a molecular level as well as friction between the too. These power losses are expelled as heat energy when the rubber deforms into the shape of the road surface. Formula one racing tires get hot! As tire pressure increases the contact patch gets smaller and deformation in the tire required to form the contact patch is lessened resulting in less rolling resistance. The difference in frontal area of a 700x26c and 700x30c is insignificant (about 28cm^2) compared to the human and bike (about 5,500 cm^2) at cycling speeds (
I used to ride 18mm tubs some years back and have recently gone from 23mm to 25mm for my road bike. To me 25mm is a wide tyre!
I run a 25 tubeless up front for aero and a 32 in the rear for comfort. Both set at the optimal pressures for me, makes for a fast and comfy ride.
yep, unless you got a flexy seatpost like the canyon's :p
the answer is, if anyone has hit a rough section of bad tarmac on 25's at 90psi and felt there speed drop whilst the bike skitters all over the bloody place then 32mm tyres are the palce to be
How short of a section? 2 weeks ago I had a 30second rough section
Although it may have been too rough for any tyre to make a difference
... their* speed drops ...
If knowing you're going as fast as possible is what you enjoy, go narrow. You will feel faster. If you, like me, want a fast bike that makes you want to jump off curbs and just have fun, 32s is the way to go. Just switched and I'm having so much fun on my bike now. The comfort between the two is night and day. It does feel a little sluggish, but personally I think the trade off is well worth it.
I ride 25mm and I actually just started road biking. I'm actually a mountainbiker and I generally feel like the road is very rough. My mtb was such a soft flowy ride to commute, but I needed something faster and more efficient.
I run my 25mm at 7.0 Bar.
I ride 28mm back and 25 front, I'm 68kg. If I were bigger I'd probably ride both at 28mm. Psi is low enough that it's soft but not bouncy.
Aslo it's true that after 1hr plus of riding, your faster if your still comfortable.
Thank you for this Video, Elephant in the room (Please tell us about your narrow bar choice)
Thanks for watching! Simon has promised to make a video all about his favourite bar width - spoiler alert - it's narrower than most stock handlebars!
26cm? He’s brave going off-road!
Those bars look crazy narrow compared with the current gravel bike trend. I wondered initially if it was a trick of the lens but no...
11:37 30mm tyre not sitting in the bead off the right side of the screen. Not sure if this was the tested set up but may affect results.
Urm, are we going to talk about those handles bars?
It was honestly my only take away from the whole thing.
@@joelzylstra2971 What are those!!
@@christianrodriguez3531 UNSAFE!!
... handle* bars ...
I had a trek Madone (pre-aero) that I ran with 23mm tires pumped up over 100psi. Hit a bit of oil on the road and they found me unconscious. On my new bike, 2020 Domane, I ran 32mm GP 5000 for the last two seasons (roughly 4,000km per season) and loved the comfort and traction benefits. If they slowed me down I’m not aware of it. For this season I’ve installed 28mm GP5000 (new model). Hopefully I don’t give up too much in comfort and traction. I have XXX4 wheels so the 32mm were creating a bit of a lightbulb effect on the wheels, undoubtedly spoiling any aero benefits the wheels might have delivered. The 28mm looks to blend better...
If you set the tire pressures so that the casing tension was identical then the wider tire would likely have more rolling resistance than the lower tire purely because there would still be a larger contact patch.
What a strange dropbar
Just a normal flared dropbar, pretty popular on gravel. He's got them quite narrow and hoods angled in so he can get into a TT position more easily. Setup arguably made popular by Dan Bigham.
"Strange" wouldn't be the word I'd use once it came to standing up and trying to climb a hill, or doing 35mph+ down a bumpy bit of road.
You got me thinking 32 is a solid choice for inspiring rides, not racing. I am a racer, and I want more inspiration now...
I used to associate harsh ride feel with speed and rode 23mm tires at over 100 PSI. Twenty+ years later, I now associate long term comfort, grip, and stability with speed using 32mm tires at ~65 PSI while riding awful roads in the Midwestern USA. Wide tires offer the added bonus of being able to ride gravel rails-to-trails trails with no problem.
Not lying about the midwest roads. In Michigan they are garbage
Thank you for this. I have wheels with 21 mm internal width and I am testing a shift from 28mm with standard butyl tubes to 26 mm with lighter butyl inner tubes. Not sure if it will make it a difference. Setup change maybe 100 g lighter. Still trying to find that sweet spot. My hope is the specialised turbo pro 26 are just a bit wider than 26 in the real world. Compared to the Vittora Rubino pro 28mm.
Many variables even for the same bike. The same tube is thinner on the bigger tire so less rolling resistance. Slightly wider tire than rim is more aero as other UA-camrs claim so you should have 2 rim widths for the test. And for the tire pressure you should have more pressure tests to find the optimal pressure for each tire width and heart rate should be involved in the test as the comfy one might give more speed while maintaining the same heart rate. I hope to see another video to show once and for all which is the better choice
Over 90% of bike riders don’t have a spare wheel set, much less for considering different width tires. The video is aimed at regular road bike riding people, who ride for recreation and/or fitness- not racers with greater equipment requirements and resources. I agree that more could’ve been done with finding optimal tire pressure, but the video did briefly mention that, and that extrapolated out, the differences for the non-racer are almost none. Basically, the video shows that if you want a wider tire for comfort, you don’t sacrifice speed.
Contact area is a function of pressure only. For a given pressure the smaller tire and larger tire will have the same contact area. However you are correct in that the casing tension will be larger for the larger diameter tire, roughly 15 percent.
Yes, I came here to type this too. Shape (not area) of contact patch will change though.
@Pablo Morales Well, yes, and I see what you're trying to say, but without inflation the tyre casing is not very stiff at all, so its stiffness is created by (and probably proportional to) the inflation pressure. I'd need to think about this (or can you provide a complete reference to support this statement?), but I feel that everything would come out in the mathematical wash and you'd find that contact patch is indeed proportional to tyre pressure.
@Pablo Morales Well yes, and clearly car tyres in particular have much higher inherent stiffness as they don't change shape much when deflated. Road bike tyres do not retain their shape very well when deflated - and in particular do blow up somewhat like the balloon example you give, although they're obviously nowhere near so elastic. Anyway, it can't be that complicated to model as it's mostly Newtonian physics, so there must be references somewhere? (btw, there's a converse example for your steel roller example - how does it deform when subjected to very high load?)
@Pablo Morales Well, that's because the wall shape changes, which (presumably, based on experiment) results in less loss of energy in the sidewall due to the sidewall flex when loaded. Anyway, I really would be interested in a solid (engineering/maths) reference to this. It's clear that inflation affects sidewall tension (the magnitude and angle of which is responsible for transmitting the load ultimately), which will affect the deflection of the sidewall as it's loaded, and hence the contact patch shape at the very least. Mind experiments aren't enough though - it still isn't clear to me that the area of the contact patch would not fall out of a proper analysis as dependent on pressure alone. I'm not dismissing what you say as true, but I'd like to see the solid proof! (Experimental even).
@Pablo Morales Sorry - missed that. I'll have a look at it if I can find a library copy. In the meantime though, I had a quick look. e.g, these: the-contact-patch.com/book/road/c2019-the-contact-patch www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/research/reports/384/docs/384.pdf has an extensive literature review etc. The first explicitly states that the sidewall carries ca. 5% of the load, which leaves the "contact patch" to carry the rest...which is supported by the tyre pressure. And that's for a car tyre. Obviously the distribution of stress in a tyre is complex, but it does seem that to first approximation my the initial statement is correct.
If you’re riding with a group you normally slipstream the bike in front negating any aerodynamic disadvantage. If you’re in the front then those behind will go at your pace albeit that you have to put out 5 watts more with your fat tyres over the thin ones. Give me the comfort of my 28s any day!
I was using 25c tubeless vittoria corsa next tires on my Bontrager Aeolus comp rim. Recently i have upgraded my rims, purchased Zipp 353 NSW hookless rim set and put 28c vittoria corsa next tires on them. I feel much faster and comfortable with new wheelset and wider tires. But i feel the Zipp 353 NSW is minimum 28c and i should go wider. Now ordered Vittoria corsa next 30c. I will tell the difference when tires arrives and i put them on. My frame says 32c maximum tire clearence (Trek Madone)
11:37 - that tire doesn't look seated properly in that b-roll. I hope you weren't riding it like that. ;)
It was definitely not up on the bead.
Riding an unseated tire with that narrow ass bar. He is so cool.
TLDR; different tyre widths, the same comfort & rolling resistance
23mm@92 psi =
25mm@87 psi =
28mm@81 psi =
32mm@75 psi
23mm@100psi with be more aero
32mm@65psi will be smoother, and offer more compression before bottoming out for similar rolling resistance as 85psi 25mm
... will* be more aero ...
Same old hoopla and all we got for 15 mins is an "it depends".....
The test results make sense. The entire set of conclusions about the "smooth" surface was based not on test results but the same old tried nonsense that everyone assumes is correct. You removed more air and pressure as a percentage and skewed the results. Plus, how wide were these tires really? My measurements show skinny tires are often close to spec, and wide ones offen fall short. How hard would to be to do a dozen or more tests on each tire at various pressures and find the sweet.spot for lowest resistance. Then use that for the outside tests.
Some testers test only different width tyres at the same pressure, but the optimal pressure of the wide tyre, which is totally out of realistic conditions, totally worthless
Good job Simon, i was worried at the start, i shouldn't have been.
Hi, I would say that comparison between tyre sizes depends on the internal width of the rim. My old but best wheels are only 15mm wide (internal) and I use 25mm tyres, which just fit on my 15 year old rim brake best bike. My new winter bike , which will be delivered in November, will have 32mm fitted for the English winter 😀
Im really curious about why the cycling scientist working in aerodynamic field didnt find out the ‘aeroest’ width decades ago? They were using 22/23mm most of the time.
That handlebar got me hit "dont recommend channel" button. What good advise can we get from someone riding such setup.
Oh my god, another one of these… I guess it’s tradition that every year each bike news/review website should do at least one “ArE wIdEr TyReS fAsTeR?” “test”. Just do a regular product highlight without pretending it’s some kind of “test”
Just product placement, nothing else - Pirreli P-Zero, Sportful, Giant...
I was so worried after first part "same pressure" ... You make it right so now I am subscriber.
I like the video, and mostly agree, but -but- I have a hard time believing that the 4mm difference between 26mm and 30mm tires (tyres) can have any significant aero difference for the vast majority of riders, given the relatively gigantic aero profile of the bike and rider overall. Skinnier tires almost certainly still have a place in road riding, but, as you mentioned, it has a lot more to with weight than with air resistance.
Honestly, if you want to ride faster, your best bet is probably just to lose 3kg from your own body.
The super narrow bars with excess cabling sticking out into the wind did make me laugh
I think that your handlebars are to wide..
... too* wide.
Excellent video, 28-30mm for me, predominantly about comfort 👍
My preference is 25mm tires. I tried 28's but really didn't like it. Could be the rolling weight of the Cinturato Velo's that I was running. I just felt sluggish, and slow to get up to speed. I switched to 25mm GP5000 AS TR, set them up between 65-70 PSI - which thankfully I can do thanks to tubeless tech. I'll take the lower weight too.
Thank you! Valuable information! Good Luck!
I weigh 185lb and regularly do hundred mile fast-ish rides. I’ve zeroed in on 30mm tires at about 70psi tubeless. 28mm were harsh pumped up and I’d pinch flat on hard bumps. 32mm felt like balloon tires disconnected from the road.
Try the front tire at a lower pressure ! Yeah put a little more in the rear than those calculators " " "suggest " . Anyway that will lower your rolling resistance and avoid the pinch. The front tire at a lower pressure will give you a good contact patch and and be comfortable. I often have a different tire up front too. Sticky with lower flat protection. ...rather loose the rear wheel first. So the rear I opt for more flat protection and longevity. You naturally have more grip in the back because of the weight distribution. Experiment and go with what is right for you. Spoke tension is also a factor and should be adjusted ( there is some room to play here ) to the riders weight and riding habits. Everone has a different fit and riding style...above all enjoy and ride like the wind.
Are your sure it's not local councils encouraging wider tyres so they don't have to maintain roads? I find little comfort improvement between 25 and 28, but I do notice the extra weight.
There is zero chance you notice the extra weight. Depending on the tire, the difference between 25 and 28 mm tires is 15-20 grams. When and what you last ate, when you last went to the bathroom, what you are wearing, and other factors would have more impact on weight than that. And none of that is frankly very important unless you are a high-level, competitive crit racer or climber, and even then 20 grams is not meaningful.
@@donadams5094 it was actually a little bit more than that plus the larger tubes. Regardless the extra rotating weight definitely makes acceleration sluggish. Your comparison to body weight is as we all know not the same as riding a lighter bike which definitely makes a substantial difference.
@@bikeman123 Continental GP 5000 25c = 225 grams
Continental GP 5000 28c = 240 grams
Those 15 grams must feel like bricks. Smh
@11:37: is it me, or is that tire not installed correctly (according to the check line on the tire that should be at equal distance to the rim, but disappears into the rim on the right side of the sceen)?
Otherwise, great comprehensive and clear video. Good work!
Great video - clear and concise. Thanks!
Wider tires that aren't any better offer the advantage of killing the rim brake by stealth. Industry propaganda. The evidence suggests the width sweet spot is already 25-28mm.. I've got 40mm tires on my commuter and yes they are Pirelli, and they are less aero, heavier and generally feel sluggish. But comfort? If you haven't learnt to stand up on rough sections of road yet, now is probably the time to learn. The bike will be getting 25mm contis next, maybe 28mm, a size that matches the actual internal rim width.
It seems like the bike industry is desperate for my money, I already own about twenty bikes in two countries with every kind of brake. My favourite bikes are road rim/DM alloy frame lightweight 1300-1400- gram alloy shallow wheels, cf seat post, bars and fork. With Conti GP5000 tires & waxed chain, mostly extremal cables. These bikes can keep up with anything, yes you lose a few watts over their hyper aero cousins, but I want to be able to work on the bike myself, plus they only cost £2-3000 not £5-10000. The industry seems desperate to add 500 grams to my favourite summer road bike and charge me double for it, but it's never going to happen. You can call me a retro-grouch or some other term, but I've got loads of Mountain bikes and gravel/commuter bikes with many kinds of hydraulic disk,
I know exactly what I want and summer road disk isn't it.
The real question tho, how significant is when saving 5watt over the course of let say 100km?
a 25mm tyre will always be faster than a 30mm tyre on an average tarmaced road. If you're in a race you should never use a tyre larger than 25mm on the front wheel, and you can use up to a 28 on the rear. Personally I use 23mm front and 26mm rear (fast cotton sidewall tyres with latex tubes). This is the most aerodynamic set up while still having good comfort, cornering ability, and weight. Another thing is that your tyre width is entirely determined by the external width of your rims, the tyres should always be the same or slightly smaller than the width of the rims. The only time you should use 28mm tyres front and rear is for casual riding, gravel races, and road races with cobbled sections.
A lot of details in regards to what ever tire size,not one word about going out on your favor ride and have fun doing it!!
Rolling resistance be damned. I’ll take grip first every time. Rene Herse Bon Jon 36c slicks for all rides.
Profile photo checks out
Tbh, I think why manufacturers are pushing for wider tires is because the carbon rims are weaker when narrow as opposed to aluminum rims
True but if you were to crash. You probably still shouldn't ride your carbon rims eitherway.
Trend is wider tires. Factors are climbing ride, or many starts and stops? For the folks looking to increase their tire width, their existing fork/frames may be the limiting factor. I have a few frames the max is either 23mm or 28mm. I just bought a new frame to allow me to go to 28mm, and also a 2nd for that allows me to go to 40mm. 90+ percent of the time I'm riding on a paved road, the rest, will alternate onto an unpaved rail path road.
good to normal roads. : 28mm
normal to rough roads : 32mm
bad roads and gravel : 40mm at least
( so depending on the conditions and also on the basic level of comfort one wants to ride with, also on the bike itself of course !! )
Overall I love this! There's the tubeless element does effect this. I found ride even faster on lower psi. I generally roll on 28s and don't ever go higher than 65psi and weigh 75kg. Each time i've gone higher, I've had no material gain in speed, I thought I was going faster, but I wasn't. This winter, I'll be on 30 or even 32s.
The curvature of rollers is not comparable to a flat road. This will significantly affect relative rolling resistance. Best to revise the experimental design. Otherwise an interesting study
Did you get your bars from a junior bike?
Sorry but contact area is not afected by tyre width, but by tyre pressure anf force applied only
Surface contact = Force/Presure
What changes is the shape of the contact area and how the suppleness of the tyre affects rolling resistence.
The conclusion is: If inflated to proper pressures for each, there's no significant difference between the rolling resistance of tyres of the same construction. But, wider tyres offer more comfort and more grip. So the answer seems to be simple - wider is better.
"If wider tires are faster, why aren't gravel bikes or MTBs faster?" this rhetorical question is born from the kind of dumb analysis that abounds these days.
No way I'll be found alive on anything above 28mm... anything wider I jump on to a MTB
based on the idea of friction wider should be slower. I haven't watched the entire show yet.
I could be surprised.
I started on 23mm tires and i'm currently riding 32mm...lowest I would go nowadays is 28mm
Tried 25s after being on 23s for years. Found out that 25s corner better downhill (more grip). I use 28s on my city commuter road bike where comfort is a little more important than speed. Anything wider than that is too heavy, too "un-aero" and negates the purpose of a dedicated road bike altogether.
I was unable to find 30mm tires after an exhaustive search, prior to a 340 mile ride I did last spring.
I have 57mm in the front and 56mm in the back (2,25 and 2,2) greetings from hardtailer ;-)I like chasing roadbikers on narrow tires
Hola, que modelo y de que año es la GIANT del vídeo? Tengo una GIANT TCR la primera que salió con discos de freno y quiero montar 30mm, pero no se si lo admitiría el cuadro, de momento llevó 28mm sin problemas. La otra duda es si mis ruedas BORA WTO 45 DISC admitirían neumáticos de 30mm ?
I beg your pardon Kind Sir.
Hope you will not mind stepping into my world with all its weirdness.
Road bike and i weight 132 kg + i go shopping for food with it + 15kg.
Total weight 147kg.
After all of my research i have understood that my only safe option is 700 x 25 mm tire with 9 bars.
i could only find one tire in the world with 9 bars - the higest available preasure. It is Vittoria Zaffiro Pro V G2.0.
Any advice would be highly appretiated.
I ride for transportation, not racing. 29x76mm roll over pot holes, rocks, small animals, and so forth. Obviously others have different needs and goals than I do. Any tire that makes my bike more fun is a win for me.
Narrow tyres pumped up to 120 psi are faster. Wide tyres is just some mad industry rip off
26c is still wider than anything we were riding 20 years ago. How about include a 21c and a 35c to make it really interesting.
Outstanding video.
Man those bars are narrow, what are they?
The issue is about rolling resistance. The narrower and higher tier pressures lead to smaller contact patches and less rolling resistance. If your worried about aero dynamics your kidding your self. You would be better off moving to tt bars if your that worried. The best thing to do is test a 24cm and see if your ass can handle it. If you still enjoy the ride than it’s for you. If it’s too harsh move to a 25, 26, or even 28.
Aero myths. The biggest modification is not width but the smoothness of the tire rim interface. Little known but this alone increases aero gains.
How narrow are those handle bars? Time to fall down another rabbit hole.
You should have done this with an e-bike set to a standard power...That said, you should test aero wheels on an e-bike on a velodrome as well!
soooo l have two bikes one with 25s one with 32s both are fast enough ,25 @ 100psi ,32@ 90psi , this allows me to ride more often w/o having to inflate them as much . Narrow responds faster to inputs BUT wider is much more smoother and handles more road/gravel irregularities Definitely more comfortable !! IF YOU CAN GO WIDER AND DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU WEIGH ADJUST TIRE PRESSURES ACCORDINGLY
This is the same rehash from 30 years ago when we compared 19mm to 22mm tyres! 23mm/100psi, rain,hail or shine!
What about rider weight? Isn't a 25mm gonna perform similarly with a 65kg rider to a 28mm with a 73 kg rider?
Most roads I ride on are fairly smooth. So my range s 25 to 32. Let me clarify, my road bikes 25 to 28 (depends on brand), My grocery getter 28 to 32 (depends on brand). Bikes have different rim widths. but I have found streets in NYC 5 boroughs that require "fat tires"!
Nice “grocery getter” me too. Go by bike!✊people powered transportation.
I use 25mm GP5000. It blows up to 26mm on my 27mm wide Reynolds wheels to give an aero advantage!
Manufacturers want people to use widest tire they can to compensate the disc brake locking up the wheels race cars don't stop in shorter distance because of bigger brakes they do depending on how wide tires are big brakes are used just to minimize brake fading due to hi temperatures caused by constant braking