I’ve been running Husqvarna’s since 19 and 75, ain’t never shut one off with the starter rope pulled out. After your simple explanation why I should makes good sense. On one hand I’m pleased you taught this old dog the right way to shut off his Husqvarna’s but on the other hand I’m not thrilled about writing all this information on my saws because if I don’t my senility ain’t going to let me remember. Ole MountainMan
@olemountainman3996 Ole Mountain Man!!! So glad to hear from you; it's been weighting heavy on my mind and was just hoping your were busy and that your bride was/is doing well; seeing your comment just lightened my shoulders and made my day!! Now, don't go to drawing hieroglyphics on your saws; I'm sure you use crayons, and crayons will attract the mice; normally a mouse has better taste than to chew on a Husky, but once tempted with peanut butter or crayons.... 😉🤣🤣 I didn't cover the WHOLE story... pulling the rope isn't needed on modern saws and could (mostly) get away with it on older saws. I was (more) trying to address how the old habit came about and how the monkey-see/monkey-do can be good or bad depending on the pawl location. Sure glad to hear from ya!!
I’m up in the mountains doing a volunteer silviculture stewardship contract in a three way partnership. My job is to do the heavy work. Ain’t no pay but I do have the benefit of endless work. One of my major disappointments is I have no internet till next year and I miss a lot of your videos and most all of my comments won’t go out and gets erased if they don’t. I don’t understand UA-cam’s system because my emails go out, most of the time. This contact will go out because I’ve gone home to get supplies and see my sweetheart of 60 years. I’ll do my best to keep up with your channel, it’s the best one out there, especially now that I hear the purr of a Husqvarna on your show once in a while instead of the clunk clunk clunk of them damn Sthil’s 😁. The wife is doing well, but has more therapy before she can come up to the camp and be with her hairy Ole “drop dead gorgeous“ Mountain Man😮. PS: You’re room with all the testing, recording and filming equipment is a fantastic achievement, it puts out the best information over all others I’ve seen. Until the next pathway through the internet waves, Ole Mountain Man
@olemountainman3996 "no pay, but having the benefit of endless work?" They're "selling" it wrong; you need a new PR man... When I'm faced with the similar situation, I always claim "The experience is worth so much that any pay would be an insult!!!" I kinda like the clunky-clunks of my old Stihls; reminds me of my ol' truck; if I *don't* hear the clunky-clunks, I know something else must have fallen off and begin worrying if it was IMPORTANT!!! 😉 Glad everything is going well; hope your friend/bride misses you JUST the right amount 💖!! (If mine misses my by more than a few inches, she adjusts here aim and tries again!! 👠🤾♂️ )
@gasaxecustomsaws Awesome!! I've never been to Texas or Alaska... 'fraid I'd never come home from either one of them places. Glad you had a good time, but glad you're back!!
The part you missed is “makes your fingertips hurt fairly much “ when it runs in reverse! Had a 100CC single try to take three fingers off when it finally got fuel, and my speed was getting slower trying to get the carb working properly. That hopefully learned my lazy Ass to respect big single two strokes 😢 It’s been fifteen years and I still remember how hard this was, and haven’t forgotten once 😊
Fantastic video! This is the best explanation I have ever seen on this. I have a Stihl 036... I've never held it out and I just learned that it's best I keep doing it that way!
@BlackForestWoodStoving Thanks for the kind words and thanks for taking time to join-in down here. Glad it helped clear things up a little bit. Stihl 036 is a GREAT saw!!
@gunterbecker8528 Thanks for the kind words and ESPECIALLY for taking time to join-in down here. THIS is where all the fun is!! Thanks for being a part!!
@curtisgriffith9825 Ol' Harvey has sure stuck his neck out to mention me/my channel; I sure hope you are not disappointed!! I am sure glad that you stopped by and extra glad that you took time to join-in down here!!
Yes indeed great explanation now people will know. After seeing this in some videos I knew why they were holding the rope out. I get why, easier on the recoil and maybe extend the life of the recoil components. I don't know how many recoils break from this. I think most recoils can handle not being pulled out during shut down because of give in the rope and winding it tighter on the spool. Kinda like a shock absorber. Any way I don't worry about it, Stihl guy. Thanks for the video.
@TheJohnDeereGuy Like you, I don't hold the rope out; I don't find it necessary. It is commonly pondered by people seeing others (usually older loggers) doing it and never knowing *WHY* the habit was started; in modern saws, even the ones with the pawls on the flywheel, it is no longer necessary. Hope harvest going well; NO precipitation AT ALL this month so far. corn still 18-19%, but beans (first crop AND double crop) are done.
@TheJohnDeereGuy It's a good year for fall tillage here as well as working on waterways and whatnot; wood cutting, for my dad, is complete; I just have to work on my pile and help my uncles with their corn harvest; not the first nubbin has been shelled yet; still too wet. Be safe Sir!!
Well explained sir👍 I was aware of the reason to do this in some cases, but wasn't aware of why you should or shouldn't do it depending on where the pawls are located, now I know👌 Kickback after shutdown is a real possibility, but you'll have to convince me 'how can it fire and possibly run backwards' after the kill switch is turned off, which should've essentially killed the spark, compression ignition, dieseling, lean mixture causing carbon to glow etc, or were just you pulling our starter cord?🤔🤷♂️🤣🤣
@simonilett998 Thanks for the kind words!! As far as the the little tidbit of the ignition types, you're only the second person to have caught that 🥈🥈 I do love to yank a chain every once in a while 😉🤫😂😂 On the other hand, a saw will run backwards just fine... but not from kicking back while turning off the ignition. Thanks for joining-in down here and keeping me honest 😉😁
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Oh awesome, I'll consider a silver medal/second prize close to a win...unless there were only two of us in the race🤣 I'll also consider my starter rope/chain yanked, nicely done sir😁👍
@simonilett998 It's all in how you present the information; there was once a competition between USA and Russia (there were only the two); USA came in 1st and Russia came in 2nd. USA's media claimed victory in that "we" came in first. Russia's media presented it as "We came in 2nd and USA came in next-to-last" 😂😉 In your case, out of the 4k+ people who have watched this video, there's only a 1st and a 2nd... not even an honorable-mention after you. You, sir, are cream of the crop!! On a serious note, awful glad you stopped in and love the banter down here in the comments! Thank you!! I sure hope you have a wonderful week.
Very interesting! I’m not using the pull starters on most of mine. As they are in big chainsaw powered rc airplanes. I converted to CDI ignition. And use an electric drill or my hand to start them.I am considering trying to run a ms250 engine backwards. To allow use of the much bigger shaft on the clutch side. Thanks for another great video🙂🙂🙂
@toddzilla6491 Oh man, the questions you raised in my lil pea brain!!! What triggers the discharge in a CDI? Still need the magnets in the flywheel?? "Use much bigger shaft on the clutch side" (by running backwards) lends me to consider that YOU are considering using the flywheel side shaft as the clutch side?? Are you going to drive from the flywheel itself or eliminate the flywheel somehow?? A MS250 runs great backwards (as does any 2 stroke), but the left-hand threads on the clutch side won't allow for much power use without unscrewing the clutch. ....that's a WHOLE other story and video!! 🤫
Ive noticed on my homie 150 it has a overrun bearing, thats the only saw ive seen that it actually pulls it back in tiny bit but is all metal parts, 50yrs later still works and thus saw has hrs on it from multiple owners ( homeowners) at that!! How many saws do u no of that broke from not pulling on cord, garentee more wear just pulling it for hrs
@alltherpm An overrunning bearing? Never seen one in a saw; is it sort of like the Briggs ones with the balls inside? Personally, I've never needed to pull the rope when I shut it off.... due to the type of saw that I have/use. I've had it happen a few times on other small engines; just happened on my old log splitter last year when I shut it down.
@HayChaffandSawdust1 the crank is smooth and the pulled cover has the overrun setup in it, slides on crankshaft seems to be more violent on shutoff cause grabs with no play,,I'm not shut what's in side that grabs crank, it's not serviceable but can be used on a drill if u want to start something
@alltherpm Sounds like how the old style Farmall Torque Amplifiers work. the balls or rods (depending) roll out/up a ramp and lock in TIGHT, but freewheel the other way. About the only thing to go wrong THERE is for it to get gummed up a little or develop a flat spot; if a flat spot develops, it slides instead of rolls. It's a good mechanical system, but it (I'm speculating) is an expensive piece to mass produce. Thanks for sharing your knowledge; I've never seen one in a starter situation... cool!!!
@SepticWhelk FINALLY!!! You are the first person to catch that 🥇🥇 ; I do what amuses me and, sometimes, I hide stuff in the videos when I'm in an exceptionally good mood. Thanks for joining-in down here!!
@mattw5729 Thanks for the comment Sir, I would sat that "need" is a strong word that some would argue against. BUT, the pawls are in the flywheel, so it would be BEST (mechanically speaking) to pull the rope out a little as you shut it off. If you choose not to pull the rope or forget, severe damage is unlikely in a modern saw. Hope that helps. Thanks for taking time to comment and join-in down here!!
Ok here's my take and what I've done all my life.... I pull the rope out before shutting my saws off' why? I pull the rope out and shut the saw off..... You can then use the rope to lower the Saw to the ground without having to bend over or drop it on the ground risking damage to the saw. Figured out on my own because I'm lazy.
@BryanClark-gk6ie Now THERE'S a theory I can abide!! An old friend came to my farm for the first time in YEARS and was admiring my wood splitting and hay square baling operation... what I considered "lazy", he considered "working smarter not harder"!! Thanks for joining-in down here with all of us riff-raff!!!!
029 Stihl. I have gone through a bushel basket of pawls lately. Busted 2 or 3 rope rotors . Broke the plastic rope rotor stud out of a starter cover. I have a flywheel on order , thinking that the pawl engagement ridges on the inner part of the flywheel are slightly worn down not allowing a firm grip of the pawls. Any thoughts on my flywheel theory ? Has anyone ever seen the flywheel as being the problem ? Not " Yanking " on the rope. Converted from single to double pawl. Crankshaft bearings seem to be tight, no wobble. OEM & aftermarket pawls , same problem.
@cliffhaskett7703 Oh crud... that's a dome-scratcher!! I can offer some thoughts, but they're just swags: * I've seen too-small starter rope bypass the next strand in the "V" of the pulley jam like a winch cable... I know, that wouldn't effect the pawls... UNLESS it cracked the plastic stud in the cover upon which the pulley rides, then MAYBE the pulley/pawls were at an angle due to the breaking stud?? *OEM and AM pawls giving the same results? That eliminates the probability of inferior materials. *Can the pulley itself be worn where the pawl sits in the little pocket? It's plastic-on-plastic and I could see it allowing the pawl to rock on its axis toward the center of the pulley? * Can the locating key (sometimes called a shear key) on the flywheel be damaged enough to advance the timing of the saw; you would surely notice that the saw was hard(er) to pull over if it was advanced enough to kick back? * Does the engine spin over fairly easily with the spark plug out? *Is there dirt/sawdust in the corners of the flywheel engagement "teeth" which would disallow the pawls from seating all the way? **too small of an air-gap on the coil can make an engine VERY difficult to pull... and it isn't (necessarily) *EVERY* time it's pulled over. *IF* the 4 bolts that hold the clamshell engine together AND hold it in the case get loose (just a fraction), the engine can change positions in the case either misaligning the flywheel to the starter and/or changing the coil's air-gap. If you can't tell, I'm just throwing out some guesses; knowing that you have the wherewithal to realize that you can upgrade the spring and add another pawl, I assume that you've already considered most/all of what I mentioned... but I thought I'd offer SOMETHING that might give your mind a thought of what the REAL cause may be. Good luck with it; if I can be a sounding board and more, I'd be happy to try to help.
@HayChaffandSawdust1 I sure do appreciate the reply. You mentioned several things that I haven't considered that I will investigate. I've posed this question on several chainsaw repair blogs with no reply. So , once again, thanks for the reply. I'll keep you posted. Eventually I'm gonna solve this problem if it cost $1,000,000,000.
@cliffhaskett7703 OK, I think I have something for ya!! (Please forgive long reply and hope I don't offend by being quasi-remedial... can't send pic, so the "thousand words" it is!!) I would speculate your problems in in the recoil assembly... how it is assembled. I'm sure you put it back together how it was, but like brake shoes, if someone ever got it wrong, so will everyone else that follows. The plastic stub, upon which the spool rotates, holds the spool; then, the spool holds the dogs; next, a thin washer is on top of the spool; lastly the spring/clip goes on. I would speculate the spring/clip is the problem (and/or the washer is missing under the clip). Now the spring... picture this (takes a smidgeon of imagination); on a single-dog spring, the spring/clip (where it does in the slot of the plastic stud) has a portion that looks like a R clip or hairpin clip. Next, the part of the clip that is shaped like the outline of a tube sock is where the nub of the pawl rides; the nub rides on the inside of the outline of the tube sock. Following so far?... the outline of the tube sock can be put on upside down; this can make the pawl(s) want to go outward toward the engaged position when the recoil is relaxed. The toes of the tube-sock-outline need to be pointing counter clockwise as you hold the recoil in your hand with the spool facing you. How it works: the spring/clip resists rotation on the plastic shaft with assistance from the thin washer and its own spring-friction; when the recoil is began to be pulled, the spool begins to turn, but the spring/clip does not; the nub on the pawl, being inside of the spring clip follows the tube-sock shape outward toward the toe making the pawl engage. When the recoil rope is released, the spring/clip again resists rotation and it causes the nub on the pawl to follow the path back toward the heel/ankle of the tube sock; that should keep the pawl retracted against the spool. I would speculate that you can disregard my earlier SWAGS; I thunk about it while splitting wood today and think this idea has more merit. If neither response works, I think your Grit and Determination approach may need to be employed. Stick with me and I'll stick with you until we get this figured out!!! I also grew up and still have some grit and determination!!! It's a rare quality anymore, and I'm happy to know ya!!!
@HayChaffandSawdust1 The pawls are definitely expanding and contracting correctly & smoothly with the pull & release of the rope with the recoil assembly off of the saw and in hand. Thin washer is installed correctly. I did check flywheel key , not a problem. 4 Basepan bolts on the bottom of saw , good and tight. I will add this though , it (rope) pulls harder then I think it should as if too much compression but not an arm jerker. I pull the rope as gingerly as I can because I know what will happen otherwise (pawls,rope rotor give it up). This next comment shouldn't be considered a complaint/symptom , but it is. The saw starts too good. Stone cold 1st or 2nd pull in the choke position is enough to make it hit. Even if don't give you that little typical Stihl " Vrim " sound. Even just a little burp sound and we're ready to move the switch into the run position. After being warmed up and cut off for a longer than normal period of time, it does not need to be rechoked. When ordinarily , it would need to be choked again to get that 1st hit. Not this saw,it's ready to go. Let me add this : I have been doing the Granberg chainsaw milling thing with this saw. 20" , 32 , and 42" bars. And milling creosote telephone poles with the 20". Soooo , I know , I'm way underpowered and creosote on top of that ? And with an 029 ?
@cliffhaskett7703 Well craaaaaap!! I just *knew* I was onto something... ain't the first time I was wrong today!!!! You said it pulls over hard; could a bearing be out/going out or a piston scored a little making it hard to turn over? With the spark plug removed, the flywheel should be easily spun. I worked on a Stihl weed whacker that would be HARD to pull over, but not EVERY time; it seemed to run fine once started and started easily; I tore it down and the piston looked like it came in 2nd place in a tommyhatchet fight (actually the weed whacker's recoil in THIS video). I'll let the ol grey matter stew on this some more!! Let's not give up!! if you find the problem, please let me know in the comments of this video or any other; it's a dome scratcher to me.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 I’ve done it on all brands of saws and it never has actually caused an issue, stihls and huskys both I’m not saying your wrong but I’ve done it hundreds if not thousands of times and the worst I’ve seen is a little accelerated wear on the wear parts
@SomeGuysSawShop I'll throw in with that!! Conversely, I almost NEVER pull the rope out when shutting one down and have about the same results as you do... of course, this is the fist Husky I've ever owned. Had Ol Macs and Homelites when I was a wee lil tadpole, but I never ran them. Mostly, the reason for the video was to give a more complete mechanical reason for a question I've seen asked many times, but remained largely unanswered or incorrectly answered. Thanks for joining-in and sharing your experiences!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 yeah, you explained it better than anyone I’ve heard. I figure I might make a video with my experiences, cause I think I still have a set of old worn out pawls from a stihl (they still lasted 10 years) I’ve just always done it because you need to on the big old Mac’s and stuff or else it will actually damage the recoil mechanism
@SomeGuysSawShop Exactly right on the ol' Macs; it's nearly a dying habit among most people who are not very old or who have only run modern(ish) saws. I'd say the habit is far less expensive to replace the little plastic pawl on a stihl every 10 years and be safe than to NOT have the habit and break recoil parts in a Mac every week or two.
I have eliminated the flywheel completely. The 18-20” propeller replaces the load it seems.The cdi is triggered by a small neodymium magnet in a collar. Timing is infinitely variable. I will make a quick video of a ms 250 engine I’m preparing for a plane. Everything is visible. And you can see how it operates. I will make a short video Sat. And share it with you👍
@toddzilla6491 Very cool!! I thought the trigger was something similar to that. I can sure see the flywheel side as being a better power-take-off point; short, stubby, and stout! If you want to shoot me an email sometime, I can give you the links to the ms250/025 mod(s) that have not been released yet. It may be a month or so before they're published, but I would like for you to have access if you want.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 You sir are too kind😉! I will email you in the next week or so. Yessir it sure is fun playing with this stuff. I am so glad I found your channel !! We seem to be on a similar wavelength haha👍👍👍
@toddzilla6491 "Same wavelength"?? You may need padded wallpaper also??!! 🤣😉 I'll keep eye out for your email; if I don't respond in a timely manner, leave me a comment here on one of my videos (I get a little red number at the top of my youtube page; email doesn't do that) and I will get back with ya!!
@davidbulich1254 There's two kinds of saws and two kinds of people; one kind of saw should have the cord pulled and the other kind should not; one kind of person has good luck and another kind of person doesn't; you either have a saw that does not prefer the cord pulled or be the kind of person that has good luck; either way, I'm glad you've had a good run at it and hope it continues. 40 years of logging has definitely gave you more experience than I; thanks for sharing yours!
Agreed…been running a saw as a pro every day for 30 years…have never pulled a cord to stop, have never had an issue, and have never seen anybody (except on UA-cam) ever do this.
@johns3106 I can agree to a point; *some* on youtube are doing it for the proper reason(s); you, having been sawing for 30 years as a pro, have probably not been using a saw 50-60 years old that actually required it; some people claimed that they ride the clutch on their truck for 20 years and never had a problem... it still isn't right from a mechanical point of view. UA-cam can be a place for learning... from how finding the the TCM module location on my truck to how I start my 1934 Cat22, to how I render lard, to how I cure bacon, to how to set a dirthole set for coyotes. Maybe someone can glean a little knowledge as to why the habit got started, how it CAN be a bad thing, and how to tell if it is good or bad for their saw; I didn't aim to waste the time of such a knowledgeable professional.
Use your equipment year round. Stay away from gasoline with alcohol in it. Mix fuel properly. Don't run lean; adjust low speed first then adjust high speed rich enough to cool and lubricate your saw. Too lean means not enough fuel; it also means not enough oil for the engine.
@hdhhc5555 They sure are, aren't they??!! Stihl's pawls are not the stoutest, but they seem to hold up fine as long as they're not abused; holding the rope out is sure-enough abuse to them. First I remember you in the comments here; thanks for stopping in and I'm extra happy that you joined in down here where all the fun happens.
I've never seen anyone pull the pull start out a bit while shitting the saw off in person. It's a youtube thing and not needed on any saw built in the last 40 years, some 50 year old mac may need this done but who runs those on a regular bases?
@nseric1233 I can agree that it's a "youtube" thing, but it is still needed on some saws; I have a couple that were not born in the past 40-50 years. I get you point about not running those on a regular basis; i wanted to shed a little light on as to the "why" the habit became and why it's done... instead of the monkey-see/monkey-do. As I pointed out, there are times for it and time against it... not just because you seen somebody on UA-cam doing it; didn't cost me much to explain the when and why of it.
@tomintexas817 Yes they are!! I also have an 020AV in my shed right now; the dang thing is caked in an inch of grease, but is actually minty!! I have a 009 that I think is also the same way (lent it to a buddy to cut big bales of hay, and have not seen it in years), but I am not 100% sure. At any rate, thanks for joining-in and sharing your knowledge.
I’ve been running Husqvarna’s since 19 and 75, ain’t never shut one off with the starter rope pulled out. After your simple explanation why I should makes good sense. On one hand I’m pleased you taught this old dog the right way to shut off his Husqvarna’s but on the other hand I’m not thrilled about writing all this information on my saws because if I don’t my senility ain’t going to let me remember. Ole MountainMan
@olemountainman3996 Ole Mountain Man!!! So glad to hear from you; it's been weighting heavy on my mind and was just hoping your were busy and that your bride was/is doing well; seeing your comment just lightened my shoulders and made my day!!
Now, don't go to drawing hieroglyphics on your saws; I'm sure you use crayons, and crayons will attract the mice; normally a mouse has better taste than to chew on a Husky, but once tempted with peanut butter or crayons.... 😉🤣🤣
I didn't cover the WHOLE story... pulling the rope isn't needed on modern saws and could (mostly) get away with it on older saws. I was (more) trying to address how the old habit came about and how the monkey-see/monkey-do can be good or bad depending on the pawl location.
Sure glad to hear from ya!!
I’m up in the mountains doing a volunteer silviculture stewardship contract in a three way partnership. My job is to do the heavy work. Ain’t no pay but I do have the benefit of endless work. One of my major disappointments is I have no internet till next year and I miss a lot of your videos and most all of my comments won’t go out and gets erased if they don’t. I don’t understand UA-cam’s system because my emails go out, most of the time. This contact will go out because I’ve gone home to get supplies and see my sweetheart of 60 years. I’ll do my best to keep up with your channel, it’s the best one out there, especially now that I hear the purr of a Husqvarna on your show once in a while instead of the clunk clunk clunk of them damn Sthil’s 😁. The wife is doing well, but has more therapy before she can come up to the camp and be with her hairy Ole “drop dead gorgeous“ Mountain Man😮. PS: You’re room with all the testing, recording and filming equipment is a fantastic achievement, it puts out the best information over all others I’ve seen. Until the next pathway through the internet waves, Ole Mountain Man
@olemountainman3996 "no pay, but having the benefit of endless work?" They're "selling" it wrong; you need a new PR man... When I'm faced with the similar situation, I always claim "The experience is worth so much that any pay would be an insult!!!"
I kinda like the clunky-clunks of my old Stihls; reminds me of my ol' truck; if I *don't* hear the clunky-clunks, I know something else must have fallen off and begin worrying if it was IMPORTANT!!! 😉
Glad everything is going well; hope your friend/bride misses you JUST the right amount 💖!! (If mine misses my by more than a few inches, she adjusts here aim and tries again!! 👠🤾♂️ )
CHAFF!! Just when I think I know a lot you come in and humble me.... Just got back from Texas. Had the time of my life! Love ya brother!
@gasaxecustomsaws Awesome!! I've never been to Texas or Alaska... 'fraid I'd never come home from either one of them places. Glad you had a good time, but glad you're back!!
The part you missed is “makes your fingertips hurt fairly much “ when it runs in reverse! Had a 100CC single try to take three fingers off when it finally got fuel, and my speed was getting slower trying to get the carb working properly. That hopefully learned my lazy Ass to respect big single two strokes 😢 It’s been fifteen years and I still remember how hard this was, and haven’t forgotten once 😊
Fantastic video! This is the best explanation I have ever seen on this.
I have a Stihl 036... I've never held it out and I just learned that it's best I keep doing it that way!
@BlackForestWoodStoving Thanks for the kind words and thanks for taking time to join-in down here. Glad it helped clear things up a little bit. Stihl 036 is a GREAT saw!!
Good stuff and good information regarding the saws 😊
@gunterbecker8528 Thanks for the kind words and ESPECIALLY for taking time to join-in down here. THIS is where all the fun is!! Thanks for being a part!!
I never considered the pawl could be on the other side. Thanks for pointing that out.
@Kevin.L_ I think it a fairly overlooked factor. Hope you have a safe week and a good weekend Kevin!
WOW! I have always wondered why this was done. You Sir, are the 1st to explain. Great Content,New Subscriber. 👍👍
@ESAU6 Thanks for the kind words and for joining-in down here in the comments!! Glad to have ya; best on luck on finding Witiko!!
Harvey sent me over here. Looks like some good content. Look forward to watching more sir!
@curtisgriffith9825 Ol' Harvey has sure stuck his neck out to mention me/my channel; I sure hope you are not disappointed!! I am sure glad that you stopped by and extra glad that you took time to join-in down here!!
Yes indeed great explanation now people will know. After seeing this in some videos I knew why they were holding the rope out. I get why, easier on the recoil and maybe extend the life of the recoil components. I don't know how many recoils break from this. I think most recoils can handle not being pulled out during shut down because of give in the rope and winding it tighter on the spool. Kinda like a shock absorber. Any way I don't worry about it, Stihl guy. Thanks for the video.
@TheJohnDeereGuy Like you, I don't hold the rope out; I don't find it necessary. It is commonly pondered by people seeing others (usually older loggers) doing it and never knowing *WHY* the habit was started; in modern saws, even the ones with the pawls on the flywheel, it is no longer necessary.
Hope harvest going well; NO precipitation AT ALL this month so far. corn still 18-19%, but beans (first crop AND double crop) are done.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Yup we are done with harvest. Working on fall tillage now and cutting wood.
@TheJohnDeereGuy It's a good year for fall tillage here as well as working on waterways and whatnot; wood cutting, for my dad, is complete; I just have to work on my pile and help my uncles with their corn harvest; not the first nubbin has been shelled yet; still too wet. Be safe Sir!!
Well explained sir👍
I was aware of the reason to do this in some cases, but wasn't aware of why you should or shouldn't do it depending on where the pawls are located, now I know👌
Kickback after shutdown is a real possibility, but you'll have to convince me 'how can it fire and possibly run backwards' after the kill switch is turned off, which should've essentially killed the spark, compression ignition, dieseling, lean mixture causing carbon to glow etc, or were just you pulling our starter cord?🤔🤷♂️🤣🤣
@simonilett998 Thanks for the kind words!!
As far as the the little tidbit of the ignition types, you're only the second person to have caught that 🥈🥈 I do love to yank a chain every once in a while 😉🤫😂😂 On the other hand, a saw will run backwards just fine... but not from kicking back while turning off the ignition. Thanks for joining-in down here and keeping me honest 😉😁
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Oh awesome, I'll consider a silver medal/second prize close to a win...unless there were only two of us in the race🤣
I'll also consider my starter rope/chain yanked, nicely done sir😁👍
@simonilett998 It's all in how you present the information; there was once a competition between USA and Russia (there were only the two); USA came in 1st and Russia came in 2nd. USA's media claimed victory in that "we" came in first. Russia's media presented it as "We came in 2nd and USA came in next-to-last" 😂😉
In your case, out of the 4k+ people who have watched this video, there's only a 1st and a 2nd... not even an honorable-mention after you. You, sir, are cream of the crop!!
On a serious note, awful glad you stopped in and love the banter down here in the comments! Thank you!! I sure hope you have a wonderful week.
Very interesting! I’m not using the pull starters on most of mine. As they are in big chainsaw powered rc airplanes. I converted to CDI ignition. And use an electric drill or my hand to start them.I am considering
trying to run a ms250
engine backwards. To allow use of the much bigger shaft on the clutch side. Thanks for another great video🙂🙂🙂
@toddzilla6491 Oh man, the questions you raised in my lil pea brain!!! What triggers the discharge in a CDI? Still need the magnets in the flywheel??
"Use much bigger shaft on the clutch side" (by running backwards) lends me to consider that YOU are considering using the flywheel side shaft as the clutch side?? Are you going to drive from the flywheel itself or eliminate the flywheel somehow??
A MS250 runs great backwards (as does any 2 stroke), but the left-hand threads on the clutch side won't allow for much power use without unscrewing the clutch. ....that's a WHOLE other story and video!! 🤫
Ive noticed on my homie 150 it has a overrun bearing, thats the only saw ive seen that it actually pulls it back in tiny bit but is all metal parts, 50yrs later still works and thus saw has hrs on it from multiple owners ( homeowners) at that!! How many saws do u no of that broke from not pulling on cord, garentee more wear just pulling it for hrs
@alltherpm An overrunning bearing? Never seen one in a saw; is it sort of like the Briggs ones with the balls inside?
Personally, I've never needed to pull the rope when I shut it off.... due to the type of saw that I have/use. I've had it happen a few times on other small engines; just happened on my old log splitter last year when I shut it down.
@HayChaffandSawdust1 the crank is smooth and the pulled cover has the overrun setup in it, slides on crankshaft seems to be more violent on shutoff cause grabs with no play,,I'm not shut what's in side that grabs crank, it's not serviceable but can be used on a drill if u want to start something
I'm sorry the bearing screws on flywheel and cover has a shaft!!
@alltherpm Sounds like how the old style Farmall Torque Amplifiers work. the balls or rods (depending) roll out/up a ramp and lock in TIGHT, but freewheel the other way. About the only thing to go wrong THERE is for it to get gummed up a little or develop a flat spot; if a flat spot develops, it slides instead of rolls. It's a good mechanical system, but it (I'm speculating) is an expensive piece to mass produce. Thanks for sharing your knowledge; I've never seen one in a starter situation... cool!!!
Stihl elastostart handle will eliminate the issue no matter what mechanism ya got !
@fabzacres-blackcat A Stihl chainsaw under a Husqvarna handle will also cure the problem. 😉
5O years running saws and I learn something new , I'm shocked . Not sure about the firing backwards bit . switched of equals no spark ?
@SepticWhelk FINALLY!!! You are the first person to catch that 🥇🥇 ; I do what amuses me and, sometimes, I hide stuff in the videos when I'm in an exceptionally good mood. Thanks for joining-in down here!!
Thank you kindly. I have a newer husky 372 do i need to pull that one?
@mattw5729 Thanks for the comment Sir, I would sat that "need" is a strong word that some would argue against. BUT, the pawls are in the flywheel, so it would be BEST (mechanically speaking) to pull the rope out a little as you shut it off. If you choose not to pull the rope or forget, severe damage is unlikely in a modern saw. Hope that helps. Thanks for taking time to comment and join-in down here!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Sounds good, thank you Sir.
Ok here's my take and what I've done all my life.... I pull the rope out before shutting my saws off' why? I pull the rope out and shut the saw off..... You can then use the rope to lower the Saw to the ground without having to bend over or drop it on the ground risking damage to the saw.
Figured out on my own because I'm lazy.
@BryanClark-gk6ie Now THERE'S a theory I can abide!! An old friend came to my farm for the first time in YEARS and was admiring my wood splitting and hay square baling operation... what I considered "lazy", he considered "working smarter not harder"!! Thanks for joining-in down here with all of us riff-raff!!!!
029 Stihl.
I have gone through a bushel basket of pawls lately.
Busted 2 or 3 rope rotors .
Broke the plastic rope rotor stud out of a starter cover.
I have a flywheel on order , thinking that the pawl engagement ridges on the inner part of the flywheel are slightly worn down not allowing a firm grip of the pawls.
Any thoughts on my flywheel theory ?
Has anyone ever seen the flywheel as being the problem ?
Not " Yanking " on the rope.
Converted from single to double pawl.
Crankshaft bearings seem to be tight, no wobble.
OEM & aftermarket pawls , same problem.
@cliffhaskett7703 Oh crud... that's a dome-scratcher!! I can offer some thoughts, but they're just swags:
* I've seen too-small starter rope bypass the next strand in the "V" of the pulley jam like a winch cable... I know, that wouldn't effect the pawls... UNLESS it cracked the plastic stud in the cover upon which the pulley rides, then MAYBE the pulley/pawls were at an angle due to the breaking stud??
*OEM and AM pawls giving the same results? That eliminates the probability of inferior materials.
*Can the pulley itself be worn where the pawl sits in the little pocket? It's plastic-on-plastic and I could see it allowing the pawl to rock on its axis toward the center of the pulley?
* Can the locating key (sometimes called a shear key) on the flywheel be damaged enough to advance the timing of the saw; you would surely notice that the saw was hard(er) to pull over if it was advanced enough to kick back?
* Does the engine spin over fairly easily with the spark plug out?
*Is there dirt/sawdust in the corners of the flywheel engagement "teeth" which would disallow the pawls from seating all the way?
**too small of an air-gap on the coil can make an engine VERY difficult to pull... and it isn't (necessarily) *EVERY* time it's pulled over. *IF* the 4 bolts that hold the clamshell engine together AND hold it in the case get loose (just a fraction), the engine can change positions in the case either misaligning the flywheel to the starter and/or changing the coil's air-gap.
If you can't tell, I'm just throwing out some guesses; knowing that you have the wherewithal to realize that you can upgrade the spring and add another pawl, I assume that you've already considered most/all of what I mentioned... but I thought I'd offer SOMETHING that might give your mind a thought of what the REAL cause may be. Good luck with it; if I can be a sounding board and more, I'd be happy to try to help.
@HayChaffandSawdust1
I sure do appreciate the reply.
You mentioned several things that I haven't considered that I will investigate.
I've posed this question on several chainsaw repair blogs with no reply.
So , once again, thanks for the reply.
I'll keep you posted.
Eventually I'm gonna solve this problem if it cost $1,000,000,000.
@cliffhaskett7703 OK, I think I have something for ya!! (Please forgive long reply and hope I don't offend by being quasi-remedial... can't send pic, so the "thousand words" it is!!)
I would speculate your problems in in the recoil assembly... how it is assembled. I'm sure you put it back together how it was, but like brake shoes, if someone ever got it wrong, so will everyone else that follows.
The plastic stub, upon which the spool rotates, holds the spool; then, the spool holds the dogs; next, a thin washer is on top of the spool; lastly the spring/clip goes on. I would speculate the spring/clip is the problem (and/or the washer is missing under the clip).
Now the spring... picture this (takes a smidgeon of imagination); on a single-dog spring, the spring/clip (where it does in the slot of the plastic stud) has a portion that looks like a R clip or hairpin clip. Next, the part of the clip that is shaped like the outline of a tube sock is where the nub of the pawl rides; the nub rides on the inside of the outline of the tube sock.
Following so far?... the outline of the tube sock can be put on upside down; this can make the pawl(s) want to go outward toward the engaged position when the recoil is relaxed. The toes of the tube-sock-outline need to be pointing counter clockwise as you hold the recoil in your hand with the spool facing you.
How it works: the spring/clip resists rotation on the plastic shaft with assistance from the thin washer and its own spring-friction; when the recoil is began to be pulled, the spool begins to turn, but the spring/clip does not; the nub on the pawl, being inside of the spring clip follows the tube-sock shape outward toward the toe making the pawl engage. When the recoil rope is released, the spring/clip again resists rotation and it causes the nub on the pawl to follow the path back toward the heel/ankle of the tube sock; that should keep the pawl retracted against the spool.
I would speculate that you can disregard my earlier SWAGS; I thunk about it while splitting wood today and think this idea has more merit.
If neither response works, I think your Grit and Determination approach may need to be employed. Stick with me and I'll stick with you until we get this figured out!!! I also grew up and still have some grit and determination!!! It's a rare quality anymore, and I'm happy to know ya!!!
@HayChaffandSawdust1
The pawls are definitely expanding and contracting correctly & smoothly with the pull & release of the rope with the recoil assembly off of the saw and in hand. Thin washer is installed correctly.
I did check flywheel key , not a problem.
4 Basepan bolts on the bottom of saw , good and tight.
I will add this though , it (rope) pulls harder then I think it should as if too much compression but not an arm jerker. I pull the rope as gingerly as I can because I know what will happen otherwise (pawls,rope rotor give it up).
This next comment shouldn't be considered a complaint/symptom , but it is.
The saw starts too good.
Stone cold 1st or 2nd pull in the choke position is enough to make it hit. Even if don't give you that little typical Stihl " Vrim " sound. Even just a little burp sound and we're ready to move the switch into the run position.
After being warmed up and cut off for a longer than normal period of time, it
does not need to be rechoked. When ordinarily , it would need to be choked again to get that 1st hit.
Not this saw,it's ready to go.
Let me add this :
I have been doing the Granberg chainsaw milling thing with this saw.
20" , 32 , and 42" bars.
And milling creosote telephone poles with the 20".
Soooo , I know , I'm way underpowered and creosote on top of that ?
And with an 029 ?
@cliffhaskett7703 Well craaaaaap!! I just *knew* I was onto something... ain't the first time I was wrong today!!!! You said it pulls over hard; could a bearing be out/going out or a piston scored a little making it hard to turn over? With the spark plug removed, the flywheel should be easily spun. I worked on a Stihl weed whacker that would be HARD to pull over, but not EVERY time; it seemed to run fine once started and started easily; I tore it down and the piston looked like it came in 2nd place in a tommyhatchet fight (actually the weed whacker's recoil in THIS video).
I'll let the ol grey matter stew on this some more!! Let's not give up!! if you find the problem, please let me know in the comments of this video or any other; it's a dome scratcher to me.
I’ve never had an issue when pulling it out causing issues but I have had issues with the recoils when I don’t pull it out
@SomeGuysSawShop Depending upon style of recoil and brand of saw you have/use, it would be just the opposite result.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 I’ve done it on all brands of saws and it never has actually caused an issue, stihls and huskys both I’m not saying your wrong but I’ve done it hundreds if not thousands of times and the worst I’ve seen is a little accelerated wear on the wear parts
@SomeGuysSawShop I'll throw in with that!! Conversely, I almost NEVER pull the rope out when shutting one down and have about the same results as you do... of course, this is the fist Husky I've ever owned. Had Ol Macs and Homelites when I was a wee lil tadpole, but I never ran them. Mostly, the reason for the video was to give a more complete mechanical reason for a question I've seen asked many times, but remained largely unanswered or incorrectly answered. Thanks for joining-in and sharing your experiences!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 yeah, you explained it better than anyone I’ve heard. I figure I might make a video with my experiences, cause I think I still have a set of old worn out pawls from a stihl (they still lasted 10 years) I’ve just always done it because you need to on the big old Mac’s and stuff or else it will actually damage the recoil mechanism
@SomeGuysSawShop Exactly right on the ol' Macs; it's nearly a dying habit among most people who are not very old or who have only run modern(ish) saws. I'd say the habit is far less expensive to replace the little plastic pawl on a stihl every 10 years and be safe than to NOT have the habit and break recoil parts in a Mac every week or two.
I have eliminated the flywheel completely.
The 18-20” propeller replaces the load it seems.The cdi is triggered by a small neodymium magnet in a collar. Timing is infinitely variable. I will make a quick video of a ms 250 engine I’m preparing for a plane. Everything is visible. And you can see how it operates. I will make a short video Sat. And share it with you👍
@toddzilla6491 Very cool!! I thought the trigger was something similar to that. I can sure see the flywheel side as being a better power-take-off point; short, stubby, and stout! If you want to shoot me an email sometime, I can give you the links to the ms250/025 mod(s) that have not been released yet. It may be a month or so before they're published, but I would like for you to have access if you want.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1
You sir are too kind😉!
I will email you in the next week or so. Yessir it sure is fun playing with this stuff. I am so glad I found your channel !! We seem to be on a similar wavelength haha👍👍👍
@toddzilla6491 "Same wavelength"?? You may need padded wallpaper also??!! 🤣😉 I'll keep eye out for your email; if I don't respond in a timely manner, leave me a comment here on one of my videos (I get a little red number at the top of my youtube page; email doesn't do that) and I will get back with ya!!
No need to pull cord out been logging over 40 + years and never had an issue
@davidbulich1254 There's two kinds of saws and two kinds of people; one kind of saw should have the cord pulled and the other kind should not; one kind of person has good luck and another kind of person doesn't; you either have a saw that does not prefer the cord pulled or be the kind of person that has good luck; either way, I'm glad you've had a good run at it and hope it continues. 40 years of logging has definitely gave you more experience than I; thanks for sharing yours!
Agreed…been running a saw as a pro every day for 30 years…have never pulled a cord to stop, have never had an issue, and have never seen anybody (except on UA-cam) ever do this.
@johns3106 I can agree to a point; *some* on youtube are doing it for the proper reason(s); you, having been sawing for 30 years as a pro, have probably not been using a saw 50-60 years old that actually required it; some people claimed that they ride the clutch on their truck for 20 years and never had a problem... it still isn't right from a mechanical point of view. UA-cam can be a place for learning... from how finding the the TCM module location on my truck to how I start my 1934 Cat22, to how I render lard, to how I cure bacon, to how to set a dirthole set for coyotes. Maybe someone can glean a little knowledge as to why the habit got started, how it CAN be a bad thing, and how to tell if it is good or bad for their saw; I didn't aim to waste the time of such a knowledgeable professional.
I agree 100%. Been small engine guy since 1980.
Use your equipment year round. Stay away from gasoline with alcohol in it. Mix fuel properly. Don't run lean; adjust low speed first then adjust high speed rich enough to cool and lubricate your saw. Too lean means not enough fuel; it also means not enough oil for the engine.
I see guys doing that with stihls. They are actually doing more damage than good. Lol
@hdhhc5555 They sure are, aren't they??!! Stihl's pawls are not the stoutest, but they seem to hold up fine as long as they're not abused; holding the rope out is sure-enough abuse to them. First I remember you in the comments here; thanks for stopping in and I'm extra happy that you joined in down here where all the fun happens.
I've never seen anyone pull the pull start out a bit while shitting the saw off in person.
It's a youtube thing and not needed on any saw built in the last 40 years, some 50 year old mac may need this done but who runs those on a regular bases?
@nseric1233 I can agree that it's a "youtube" thing, but it is still needed on some saws; I have a couple that were not born in the past 40-50 years. I get you point about not running those on a regular basis; i wanted to shed a little light on as to the "why" the habit became and why it's done... instead of the monkey-see/monkey-do. As I pointed out, there are times for it and time against it... not just because you seen somebody on UA-cam doing it; didn't cost me much to explain the when and why of it.
My
@tomintexas817 Thanks for taking time to comment; it's sure helpful for small channels such as yours and mine!
My phone crapped out I have an old stihl 015L or 020AV has the husky style
@tomintexas817 Yes they are!! I also have an 020AV in my shed right now; the dang thing is caked in an inch of grease, but is actually minty!! I have a 009 that I think is also the same way (lent it to a buddy to cut big bales of hay, and have not seen it in years), but I am not 100% sure. At any rate, thanks for joining-in and sharing your knowledge.
Crap.
@gavinelliot3564 Agreed; for certain types, I'm sure it is!!