Podcast 515: Opal, GSZ, Looting, Twin Unbanned
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- Опубліковано 4 лют 2025
- The Modern shakeup no one expected.
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Intro Music: "8 Bit Adventure" By HeatleyBros
• "8 Bit Adventure!" Que...
Outro Music: "8 Bit Ending" By HeatleyBros
• "8 Bit Ending!" Nostal...
They were so excited to talk about this, that they forget to put in the intro jingle.
Lol true, we better get 2 next time to make up for it! 😂
Is that jingle they normally play from a game or something? Or is it an original tune for the Podcast?
Kind of wish more UA-cam media was like this, though I know that’s a personal problem.
@@johnmartin1462The League of legends player thebausffs uses the same jingle in his videos so i guess it is unlicensed music
the jingle is *banned*
Richard jumping up and down like a proud dad when Crim is talking about staying competitive, the best internet father son duo honestly
Fear of Missing Out is the newly printed card that combos with Twin.
4 mana aura!!! Can't wait to get 2 for 1'd trying to pull it off
Yeah, that's a good point. Should have talked about it, although needing delirium seems like a meaningful downside.
With looting its easier
Corridor monitor?
@@MTGGoldfishPodcast Is Delerium a meaningful downside? Faithless Looting is legal too.
I'm always impressed by Seth's breath and depth of knowledge. I think each MTG member brings a lot to the table in their own right, but Seth brings a level of knowledge to the table that seems unparalleled by the rest of the crew.
Im gonna be pseudo conspiratorial: they unbanned mox opal because they need a chase card to reprint and mana crypt/jeweled lotus are out of the picture.
Testing community response to justify a crypt or jeweled unban in 25 or early 26
@@MrArcyColaI really, really hope not. I personally don’t mind the bans and am glad they’re gone, but it’s for the reason that it will make the people who sent death threats feel vindicated and potentially encourage that behavior. It is still too early and that whole drama is still in recent memory, unbanning those cards will just justify the wrong behaviors.
@@josephfreitag568 That's a terrible line of thinking, because if they followed that logic it would encourage supporters of unpopular decisions to send death threats in order to have them written in stone. By taking either extreme position you allow the people making threats undue power.
What they need to do is simply take legal action where it is required and then make their decision independent of the reality that threats were made.
(Also, I am almost positive that the bracket system is going to do away with any notion of a rigid ban list altogether, with the nominal ban list simply being treated like an additional bracket to those who want to play with the strongest cards.)
Mox Opal was unbanned for reprint equity.
All the cards were picked for reprint equity. They’re not as good as they used to be so Wizards needs to cash in with their reprints before they’re completely unplayable. Same thing was done with Foundations.
Reprint equity also increased for supporting cards too.
??? This doesn't make any sense. Wizards only makes money from selling sealed product. Just cuz there's some reprints possibly coming, doesn't mean they'd sell any less or any more.
@ADamItalian1173 Your claim is that desireable cards don't drive primary market sales?
Assuming thats true i hope this is a sign that commander fastmana stays banned for good.
A big thing about the article that came with the ban announcement, was that this is the start of a new era for modern. I think that might re-contextualize some of the balancing concerns of the enabling cards.
Mox freed removes shackles from lantern control
That is quite the interesting insight.
Turn 1 hammer baby
Mox Opal, Urza's Saga, and and Mycosynth means that Lantern Control is faster and more consistent than it ever was before. It's slowly been creeping up in the background and this unban may have been exactly what it needed to push it into tier 1.
Wrath of the Skies says hi
@@arvinsimif they Thoughtseize it from your hand and you never draw a relevant card for the rest of the game how effective can it be?
Kept my nice one ring, but glad I got rid of the rest of them back when they were a little under a hundred a pop. So glad of the ban. Modern needed it.
They couldn't have thrown Pod back in the mix as well? At least we got Green Sun
Might be next wave. Seems like they are doing it steps at a time.
RIP Jegantha! We will always remember you, buddy!
Green Sun's Zenith is scary because of Primeval Titan?
Sirs, what it sounds like is you're making a case for banning Primeval Titan.
Actually I'd just hit amulet. Titan is fine when it happens on t3-4, not t2.
I mean, it does massively boost the deck even so
@@demiurge2501 absolutely. It's amazing that amulet continues to dodge bans based on the simple premise that it's hard to play and only psychos want to read a 30 page instruction manual to learn it. :p
Prime Time is crazy in Modern. Imagine in Commander...
“The thickest , heaviest , most competitive people all in one spot “
Was there supposed to be a new podcast?
No fishmail? And y'all were doing so good! You had a streak going!
With TOR I completely agree with Seth. The price is going to drop a little more but then I could see it going back up to 80-90 bucks thanks to Commander players buying them up. I picked up a copy for 45 and if it drops another 10 bucks, I am likely picking up another pair for decks.
wotc also may never reprint it commercially or only for like limited edition since it is UB and they have agreements on how long it can be printed. I could easily see it back at 100 within the next year
@@Lazydino59 Exactly this. The card is still potent in Commander but it is very much a flavor win since you can only play one. If people want The One Ring on the cheap, buy now because a few months later it will be back to where it was before the ban speculation was going on.
@@TheForeverRanger yeah we just hit the floor for this card. If it hit mana-crypt levels of money in 1-2 years I would be unsurprised. I’m debating buying a couple more myself and will flip them if they get that high, otherwise they slot into literally every deck so it can’t be a bad buy unless they reprint it into the ground (which for reasons I just mentioned are super unlikely)
@@Lazydino59 Own 1, proxy the rest, sell the extras - profit.
@ yes sirrrrr
Mox Opal was freed for future products, because I have hard time seing why this card should ever be legal
Collector Ouphe, Meltdown and Wrath of the Skies will keep it in check? (Ouphe was even buffed with GSZ being unbanned)
They pushed Artifacts in MH3 since artifact decks like affinity have been dead for a few years now. It failed to elevate the strategy, so this is to try and boost dedicated artifact decks
Why should it be banned?
i mean it got banned for the sins of astrolabe and urza... you have to be a dedicated artifact deck to make work .. and this is coming from a dedicated lantern control
The best artifacts decks are scales and grinding station. And these got a massive boost by getting mox back
Thanks for the video and update on the format! Nice to learn this stuff. I don't play or know anything about modern really.
My prediction is once Aetherdrift releases and all the energy cards in that come out I feel like the energy deck will find its replacement for one ring.
God I hope there isn't energy support in artherdrift, energy as an archetype is wayyy to powerful for standard
@@CFC6788-gs2rl it's partially set in the energy plane, it'd be weird not to. I'm hoping we get a way to interact with opponents energy
As a matter of fact richard, yes. I do want dredge tier one.
Yarion and Jegatha - happy to see Seth keeping with tradition 😁
Nothing can beat Boilerbiggles
I can't even guess what that card is supposed to be. :D
he used to call it jengatha lol
Hoggak
I loved my Mardu Pyromancer deck with Looting back in the day. I would love to try a version 2.0
so first they nerf the companion ability and still a bunch of them are banned in various formats. worst mechanic ever?
Seth: the one ring is a poor play pattern
Also Seth: I love lantern control
LOL, at least 90% of lanterns cards are only in that deck. TOR went in everything
@ play pattern is pretty much objectively worse change my mind. Play pattern and card ubiquity deserve the gus fring we are not the same meme
You do realize you can enjoy something and also acknowledge its bad right?
@@ZSA004 I mean if we are going to be very precise about it then the patter is very similar. You know you lost, but not deterministically so the game prolongues while you wait with abysmal chances of winning until you feel like you are allowed to concede.
If Lantern was 60% of the meta I'm sure I'd hate it as well, but as someone who loves prison decks, Lantern at 2% of the meta is fine with me.
Faithless looting makes me want to finally build Buried Alive Phoenix in modern
We need to go back to the glory days of modern of Seth losing to Infect T2 after thoughtseizing their opponent.
truly a great day for modern
Literally just bought a mox opal for a friend for Xmas a week ago. Boy did I pick well.
Gavin cast The One Ring into the fires of Bandor.
Excited to check the main channel back out for some non-arena content!
Here are the archetypes that are now back on the menu:
Affinity
Dredge
Phoenix
Lantern Control
Harden Scales
Reanimator
Twin
Hollowed One
That is only a short list of what these unbannings mean.
Modern is finally Modern again. I'm excited to both brew and play Modern again!
You forgot kethis!!!!
You guys need to do another ante commander match. Watching Seth flip his One Ring was hilarious 😂
Somewhere Tomer is dusting off his artifact stuff and laughing like a madman.
Would now be the best time to buy the one ring for my commander decks? Or would it be an unsafe purchase?
OP09 is out… truer words have never been spoken, I felt that with my soul
Gsz in titan reads:
X0: get d arbor
X1: get grazer (basically better explore)
X3: get driad, azuza or maybe loot
X5: get Roxanne
X6: Primetimeeeee or lumra
So does flare of cultivation become real with green sun's? You can turn 1 green sun's for arbor then sac it or grab arboreal grazer turn 2. Green sun's also acts as an outlet in a similar way to nic fit
I got it (I have played exactly 2 games of modern when MH2 came out) WoTC wanted Mox Opal in the format so they can make money off it. But you have to fight through mox opal how do you do that? Boom Collector Ouphe. But how do you Ouphe?? Bam. Green Suns baby more money for more modern players. Am I close Seth? What do ya think.
As an elves and hollow one player, this may get me back in the shop for a few weeks, but we are still in the power creep deluge of cards era so I doubt I will keep with it
Hollowed one was decent preban, so I think it can be a real contender with looting put into the format
Prediction: The Foundations product line going forward will be used for reprints instead of the Masters series of sets.
Mox Opal believers never sold, been rocking OG SOM copies since 2014, didn't pay over 50 a piece for them.
Modern Cheerios is back, baby! 😀😆
Id certainly argue that literally every banning was more impactful than this unbanning.
idk flooting is just one broken payoff away from causing problems. even so i would rather keep flooting around as a format staple to give you a reason to play red GY decks
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug
Arena of Glory made Jegantha even more silly. They definitely wanted to inject excitement into the format. Mox Opal being unbanned was not on my bingo card. Excited to see what shakes up!
Richard is misremembering Modern ban history. Mox Opal (Jan 2020) and Faithless Looting (Aug 2019) were banned way later than he thinks, and Jund was already unplayable then.
Hollow one is my favorite deck im actually happy for FL might actually look at modern again will it be good idk but hey maybe i can brew again
What do you think about Jitte still being banned?
There are so many more cards that interact with the graveyard or stop graveyard shenanigans that people are overblowing Faithless Looting's effect on the format. Endurance still exists for heaven's sake.
I think cards like "restore" are underplayed. "three visits" searches for a forest, and puts into play untapped--so net one mana ramp since the forest might come into play untapped. Restore does the same thing for fetch lands you already used earlier in the game--and get lands you milled by accident also (*cough* *cough*, so Richard's basic in his graveyard--milled by Crim, can at least to something useful).
Love you guys
19:35 fear of missing out combos with splinter twin, and is a decent card on its own
I dont think they did enough to Boros energy. All it takes good cards to replace TOR and Amped raptor. And dont forget based on rumors Aetherdrift may have energy and if it does it might rebreak the deck again
Fear Of Missing Out is a good Splinter Twin target and also playable on its own.
I think Splinter Twin decks are going to main board Vexing Bauble just like how all the unfair decks in Legacy did to combat the "free" removal.
I feel like people will say this is "bad" but it's perfectly reasonable to me that a combo deck would want to run protection for its win-con in the maindeck.
And opens up possibilities of running enough artifacts to run mox opal to speed up combo…
@@whatdothlife4660 I completely agree with that statement, just hate that everyone assumes that the free spells are what's going to keep twin in check.
It's going to be interesting to see how it shakes out. Do you double down on protecting the combo or do you build a deck that can pressure without the combo to hopefully clear the way for the combo kill. I can see arguments for going both directions.
@@MTGGoldfishPodcast If Twin becomes a problem my guess is Authority of the Consuls may become good tech against it.
Banning the one ring takes modern from prohibitively expensenive down to merely ridiculously expensive
40:20 I knew Seth enjoyed beating people down with obscure strategies but I never realized that he loved looking them in the eye while they slowly descend into a well of despair. truly sadistic 😈
FOMO combos with Splinter Twin. Flare of Denial is a free counter that protects the combo. Teferi also protects the combo. I think there could be a new shell that works for twin, even if it doesn't turn out to be tier 1, it's probably not too fragile to compete.
Honestly, I would have liked a "Restricted to one per deck" for the One Ring, but flat out banned is okay.
You could just run Twin in RW Energy too. I think it will be good. Not busted but good. Maybe a contender. Modern is going to be really different in 3 months. I think Faithless looting is the biggest game changer. Also I'm incredibly excited looting is back! Best news I've heard in years.
They left nadu alone in legacy, that was a mistake.
What about marvin plus some creaturefall/artfifactfall effect (like impact tremors) for spinter twin?
Time to cash in on my invention mox opal!
I'm hyped for modern even if the thrill is short lived
Mox Opal will be banned again. The Mox cards can not exist in a format like modern, you talk about old affinity cards but the truth is that the problem is Wizards keeps printing more broken artifacts and they will likely be too slow to ban Opal again because it is "just an enabler" when really it is a problem that will resurface every time a good artifact is printed. The format will become even more of a sideboard only format.
Agreed. Although I'm more worried about someone figuring out how to break Twin wide open. There is so much more access to tempo and control that it didn't have years ago. I could be wrong, but it won't surprise me at all if Twin gets banned again. Opal is very questionable as well.
@Xoulrath_ So I admit twin could be a problem but I think it is less likely to be simply because it is a four mana card in red so it being too slow is possible but opal is strong because it makes a strong strategy too fast. Big finishers aren't really the problem it is instead the accelerators a great example is Emrakul the Promised End which is legal because it itself wasn't the "problem" card instead it was the accelerators that made it easy to get out too quickly.
@@TheDustyPeaches Twin wins by controlling the game, and then coming out of nowhere with the combo. People keep seeming to forget that when evaluating it. It wasn't just some combo rush deck that you were trying to goldfish your pieces for.
The One Ring has finally been cast into the fire that it once came from. Also, looks like Artifact decks are back on the menu.
A little surprised with the Jegantha banning, but it was creeping up there in play rate. Further highlighting that Companion was a massive mistake.
Companion was the best mechnic that Wizards ever created.
I agree with Richard that the unbans make Modern more of a sideboard simulator. However, I’m a little confused about which era of Modern they’re nostalgic for if this isn’t what they want. Most of Modern’s history before MH1 was sideboard simulator. There’s a reason they thought losing a sideboard slot for a companion was a big cost. Because you needed your anti-artifact cards for Affinity/Lantern and anti-graveyard cards for Dredge/Living End and anti-storm cards and anti-big mana cards for Tron/Titan and life gain cards for Burn. What period of Modern are they looking for?
Yeah, I remember reading discussions about whether to expand the sideboard in Modern to 20 because it was hard to cover everything with "only" 15 sideboard slots. Granted, I guess one could argue that this is a format strength with so many viable decks. I haven't paid much attention to Modern in a while, so maybe that's an upgrade over the current meta.
(Not a modern player) Would a 2 of twin in boros energy be good as a value piece? Copying an ocelot pride seems potentially decent.
I am actually soooo excited to play modern again. I left the format after MH1 released, but these unbans have breathed new life into the format. Also, my LGS has Modern Mondays, played in it tonight, 60% of the decks were looting decks and I was the only opal deck. Maybe it's just because no one has opals, maybe not.
If GSZ gets Titan banned, I'm all for it. I think it's purely an Amulet Titan card, does it make Elves better, hope so, but not sure what they remove.
Very interesting bans and unbans all around for sure!
I'd love mox opal in charbelcher! 47:59 edit: they needed to axe 10-20 more cards 49:45
I can see crim playing the twin sideboard plan in best of one
I love how these guys cry about the One Ring in every episode. I love to drink their sweet tears.
Still believe the hits to energy were wrong, should have been guide of souls and galvanic discharge.
I'll add to the conversation. I think Goblin Bombardment should've been on the chopping block too. It can trigger Ajani at instant speed, ping something and it helps deal massive damage to your opponent in response to a board wipe/ removal. If you want to keep Bombardment for other decks like 8 Whack then ban Ajani.
I agree that galvanic would have been good to take a little more out of its consistency but if you hit guide of souls you basically kill the deck and they did say that wasn't the goal of the ban.
@@dane_anubis6213the guide hit limits the high energy starts/snowballs with ocelot pride.
Well considering energy coming to aetherdrift. We’ll see. 😂
The sad part is, even electrolyze isnt a clean answer to bowmasters, they still get a new 1/1 and another damage before it dies.
In a vacuum, I think boros got hit hard enough. The ring ban makes longer games worse and it makes mulligan decisions harder. Amped raptor is a good hit.
Does faithless looting invalidate some of that? One mana draw two, helps enable phlage and is usable sooner than the ring to line up a giant turn.
Overall I’d say Modern is indeed saved. The One Ring had to go and I don’t think anyone is going to miss Jegantha, but I’m glad Amped Raptor got banned over Guide of Souls - because that lets Boros Energy still be playable without outright gutting the deck if they took out Guide and Phlage like a lot of people were calling for.
The unbannings are exciting, but other than Mox I doubt these will cause any difference to the meta. Twin unban doesn’t matter. GSZ unban doesn’t matter unless you’re an Amulet Titan player (this making Elves playable is pure cope). And Looting unban probablyyyyyy won’t matter…but is definitely a powerful card even outside of Hogaak.
Mox Opal on the other hand I’m actually very surprised they had the balls to unban. If their rationale is they want Affinity type strategies to be viable then they’ll certainly get their wish, but cards like that are just asking for someone to break it (again).
Mox opal is a mistake in multiple fronts. It is an enabler, a combo piece and a VERY expensive card that doesn't help people to get into the format. If they wanted to help artifact decks they could just unban some of the artifact lands, which are 1 dollar cards, they do not combo and if destroyed they hurt a lot more. With the unbanning of mox opal they just made crazy combos a lot better and upped the prize by A LOT of the "fair" decks that could use them. A disaster imho
Arclight with Murktide!
Titan takes bannings all the time. They are just in line with Tron typically. Lattice, Once Upon a Time, Uro, I can go on forever.
The one ring should have said a deck can have only one copy of it in a deck printed on it
Twin will be jeskai. Teferi solves that issue. It'll be tier 2 like all control decks. It's actually a boon for them.
Hammer Time might pump with Mox Opal
Turn 1 hammer babyyy
The great thing tho is that you keep saying, “this deck will be busted” for a ton of decks in modern but I think that having lots of broken decks is worth the diversity of lots of decks
A ton of busted decks means a pretty open meta game. 6+ different meta decks sounds pretty good to me.
To me this has me way less interested in modern. Unbanning 3 combo pieces was a mistake. I won't be surprised to see Looting and Opal banned once again in the future.
100% agree with Richard about it back to being sideboard simulator.
Energy has been dealt with because the combo decks will run over them unless they can speed up to beat them.
Although I think the changes are good, I still think Modern is just a dead format at this point. The only way to really tackle the problem of rotating Modern is by banning all direct to Modern sets. That's really the only way to get Modern back on track at this point. Modern is unfortunately still just MH Block Constructed + whatever mizer pet card you may like.
The second most popular format after commander still no?
@@storeblaa not anymore Most people are priced out of playing Modern, and the only way to play online is through MTGO which is far less popular than Arena. Standard is is making a big comeback both online and in paper, and Pioneer has been doing great since the Amalia and Sorin bans. Only reason I've seen people build Modern decks is for the RCQ season cause they're forced to play the format, even though everyone is having more fun with Standard and Pioneer.
@@as95ms98 This has been my experience as well only swap pioneer and modern, i havent seen any interest whatsoever for the format at all
Modern is the only format my lgs plays, lol. It's still popular, very popular. Don't take people sitting our for a season cause of needing a ban as any sort of test, lol. Also modern has basically always had a 500 min buy in and budget decks were never actually viable.
Modern is pretty dead in my area. Going from MH2 to MH3 I've seen attendance at locals drop from two 30-40 player tournaments a week to a single 8-10 player tournament. Even standard is more popular.
I would be interested to see twin in some sort of jeskai tempo/control shell that backs it up with like flair of denial.
There was no winning solution with Modern.
Any eternal format is just an accretion of historical mistakes. As design became, ironically, more modern, the odds that a card could stand a chance in modern diminished. Modern players pre-Horizons were, iirc, grappling with a stale meta, and were clamoring for a shakeup.
But shaking up modern with cards that pass through Standard would necessitate breaking Standard, because so many historical mistakes just made Modern impenetrable for the modern card pool.
So what does Wizards do? Do they just live with Modern being an unchanging meta with an ever-increasing pool of useless cards that can't penetrate the tier list, and deal with players complaining that Modern never changes? Do they absolutely obliterate Standard with cards worthy of day 0 bans, just to push them into Modern? Or do they release new cards directly into Modern that might potentially break the format?
Assuming these unbans are impactful, I do believe they'll have the desired effect of resurrecting part of Modern's former identity, and as a boomer who has played Modern for over 10 years, I appreciate that.
However, without an accompanying announcement vowing to end direct-to-modern sets, I can't view this change as anything but pandering; all is likely to be undone with MH4.
village bell-ringer is just a second deciever exarch for twin
It's interesting that Richard is complaining about Modern being a side-board heavy format ("side-board simulator"), while several other creators I've watched consider that a staple part of a healthy Modern format. Just goes to show no matter how much you think something is "obvious" or "everyone agrees", that's probably not true. There are other reasonable people out there who fundamentally disagree.
Modern was unfair decks smashing into each other for a decade. It was the busted format with diverse threats and weak answers. People say they want to go back to old Modern, but also the play patterns were pretty bad pre-MH1/FIRE. Jund and UW tried to hold down the fort for fair decks, but they were never particularly good.
So according to Crim, old decks aren't good enough but old decks are good enough to be worried about?
That's the weakness of trying to look at old decks and compare them to new decks.
Prime time is the poster child of modern in my head, if it ever gets banned I'll be ruined
They think taping out for GSZ is dangerous after talking and dismissing THE tapout check twin. They think that free interaction is going to stop a twin deck from back in the days, which it will. Guess what you are allowed to play new cards in twin too.
Wizards has the gaul to say they want green based creature decks to be better and unban the single worst enemy to those decks that has ever existed.
WTF?
i think in mardu energy specifically. the banning of the ring doesnt matter since that deck was not playing it cause its long game viability was good. The banning of amped raptor i can forsee either ragavan taking its place. or even maybe having room to play ob nixillis the adversary again. it is such a good card in the deck especially if you are looking to grind. I think the energy decks will switch to the value plan of mardu, or play the jeskai mocking bird style decks using tune the narrative for the "free energy"
40:16 Seth's best take
They did target 2 cards out of energy . Most energy decks were playing one ring as well
All three bans hit energy. They were playing jegentha too
Bounding Krasis with twin maybe? It's a 3/3 so it requires bolt, and it costs 3, so some protection against push since they'd need revolt. It also has Flash so you can play it T3 then Twin T4?
I mean, it mostly seems worse or even compared to Deceiver Exarch which does all that with an extra point of toughness.
@@seandun7083 Yeah I wasn't familiar with the statline of Deceiver Exarch and how exactly it worked until after I posted this.
I don’t understand Richard’s distaste for faithless looting
They finally unbanned Twin yet modern is such a decadent ex format that it doesn’t even matter anymore. Well, I guess MTG is a decadent ex game in general, and it would take a miracle to fix it now…
7:13
The price went down because it wasn't brand new and in high demand anymore