The Truth About Lightweight Discs! (Surprising Conclusion)
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
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Once I hit my 40's I had to take a look in the mirror and realize I didn't have the distance I had in my 20's in 30's. Now I throw all 158g and under drivers with my mids and putters being in the 165-170 range . It's much easier on me and I get more distance with the light weight discs.
Turning 40 this Nov, wrapping up my 2nd year playing and realizing light weight drivers is the way to go. I can feel the torque resistance on a heavier weight and I just can pull them the same.
That wasn't a headwind you threw into, that was a gentle Spring breeze...
Would like to see lightweight MVP vs. Lightweight discraft or other manufacturers. Great content!
The weight debate is physics. The lighter the weight the easier it is to get the disc up to speed so that it will fly according to its flight characteristics. That being said when you throw into a head wind, the relative speed is faster (arm speed + wind speed = relative speed) which is why people may feel like lighter weight discs have more turn. Throwing light weight discs is a great way for non pros to throw far and or get the actual advertised flight from a disc. Just remember to stable up in a head wind and go less stable in a tail wind.
I agree that a lot of this argument is about physics. But if two brand new molds are thrown, then the lighter weight disc may have more turn because of the extra speed. And then the travel further, because of the glide and turn. But if you break in a heavy weight disk, and you throw it against the light weight Disc, that’s brand new. They may end up having the same turn and glide into a headwind. They also may go the same distance. Even though the lightweight disc may come out of the hand at a faster speed. The inertia of the heavy weight disk thrown at a slightly lower speed may be able to cut through the wind without slowing down as quickly due to air resistance. So the ultimate measure of how far a disc goes is more about the energy exerted, the path, turn and glide. We control the energy and the pathway exert onto the Disc. And we choose a disc with the right, turn and glide based on the wind and situation.
@@crusher26638yeah but head wind slows light discs down more than heavy discs so the heavy one goes further into a headwind assuming you threw the right disc and executed a proper throw. How much heavier and how much more headwind until it doesn't go further anymore are the factors I see as relevant. A tailwind can take a dandelion seed miles away...
"It is a little bit windy out here today" - - - Proceeds to walk by a dead calm flag
Heavy flags don’t move
@@alexanderthompson7076 174g?
A few years ago I ran a tremendous number of experiments with virtually every lightweight driver disc in production, and discovered that my arm speed velocity was averaging faster by about 1mph for every 5 grams reduction in disc weight, which would then typically produce ~5 feet of extra distance for every 5 grams lighter. MVP Tesla in Fission was the best at not going drifty even when thrown into a slight headwind with near max. power, and is now my all around favorite straight line driver disc, because it can be thrown reliably over the broadest range of release velocities and target distances. Lightweight 150g Destroyers tended to be about the same stability as 175g, but can be thrown 5mph faster due to the weight difference and this was giving me about 25-30 feet of extra distance. Lightweight Bosses for whatever reason where turn and burn garbage especially into a headwind. Some lightweight discs were way more touchy when it came to nose angles and parting lines, and it could also be that traditional wide rim drivers in lightweight plastic are affected the most in regards to the % of weight that is spinning on the rim. MVP overmold weight is not being affected by reducing the overall weight of the disc with the lightweight Fission plastic, and thereby can maintain decent stability even at high arm speeds.
I have also experienced the comical turn and burn of a 149 gram DX Boss. It's pretty ridiculous. I also think there is something to be said about the MVP overmold "gyro" tech. I have numerous light weight MVP driver's that all fly true to their numbers.
I think it's important to note that MVP modulates the weight of fission discs by changing the weight in the overmold
I have run this experiment myself across multiple lines of drivers. Pharaoh, Emperors, Destroyers, Trespass... etc. EVERY TIME, the lighter disc is more flippy. 10g is where I start to see a huge difference. If the lighter disc doesn't turn more (as in this case), I'd be more likely to blame it on run, plastic, etc. Order the same plastic from INFINITE in the same disc at 10g intervals, and you will get dramatically differently flying discs. BUT... if you can't throw fast enough to turn a halo boss at 175 g, then you may not be able to turn a halo boss at 150 g... and you wouldn't see the difference in those discs... but Drew Gibson would. That's what I think we are seeing in this video. Used discs, lot's of variation... more than just one variable.
Would like to see the same type of comparison of MVP vs Innova. In general, more comparison content of lightweight discs...155 to 168g
I recently started playing... Purchased about 15 heavier disks to start and realized quickly that I could no throw well at all... I have replaced all of them with 150g or less. Now I am able to get in some decent throws. I agree with the training concept, however if I do not see results that push me to move back to higher weights, I will stay with the lower ones. Good video. The few people I have played with so far look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them the weights I'm throwing.
Would love to see more videos on this subject
I think the mold matters. I have a semi lightweight (166 g) cicada that does have some stability when thrown flat or on hyzer, but will absolutely turn and burn thrown hard and flat into a headwind.
I throw forehand 90% of the time.
I have two fairways molds that i bag a light weight and a "heavy"
Cicada i bag with 173g ESP and 159g Z Line. The Z Line even though most Z Line is more stable is not in this case. There is much more noticeable turn in the 159g Z Line.
Now here is the weird one.
I have two neutron servos. One 173g and the other 157g. The 157g will has more turn by far. However i am not entirely sure that the turn is the weight with the servo. The 173g is board flat. The 157g is domey. They are from completely different runs. 173g came with the sticker but the 157g came with the embossed weight.
I do feel like there needs to be a wider sample and with a more 'neutral' disc mold in the same run.
I started playing back in the early to mid 80's. some friends, that had been playing, invited me along and the next thing I knew I was hooked. I had gotten away from it for 20+ years (industrial accident and voc-rehab). Jumping ahead twenty-five years later the college I work at elected to install a disc golf course, we started out with 9 holes and have expanded to 18, I got involved with the expansion about 8 months ago and in the process have rekindled the love of the game. I turned 63 this year and found that I no longer had the arm I once had but with the lighter weight discs I can get decent distance on my drives for an old man, 😉.
I am almost 62 and wish I had started playing about 30-40 years ago. Just started in 2022 and could only throw about 125-150. But with lots of experimenting and watching a lot of you tube videos, I can now max out at about 260-270 feet. I realized a year ago that it is all about proper mechanics + form. Using a lighter disc weight has not made much difference, even though i am using more of those to ease the wear + tear on my arm. Try a River or Maul or a Saint fairway driver with that extra glide, and that may help
I have a 145 Gram Halo Star Mamba that absolutely rips, at 145 and being a mamba you'd expect it to be insane with turn but its weirdly stable (im assuming due to being halo star) and absolutely bombs
I would like to see a flight tracker on a sample size (larger the better) of throws on each disc. You would pick out a specific horizontal and vertical location and try to hit that line at the same perceived effort. Overlay those flight tracked throws to get an average flight per disc. You could even through out the x number of throws per disc that were furthest off target spot. Real data like this would be VERY interesting indeed.
I had a 145g 4X destroyer, and it was one of the most stable destroyers I've ever thrown.
Same. Those destroyers are ass lol
I generally bag between 160g-170g discs. Works for me.
Not a big fan of jumping between weights, like going from a 145g driver to a 175g mid, I feel like it can introduce some timing issues.
I bag a 161 PFN Star Orc. Thing is an absolute hyzer flip to straight bomber.
I’ve built a full bag with 80% of it being lightweight minus putting putters, a couple mids & throwing putters. I’ve tried lightweight Wraiths, Destroyers & Bosses. They just didn’t fly as intended. But Z-Lite & Fission plastic seems to work best for me. Having the ability to use full flight characteristics & being able to power down makes throwing more enjoyable, especially when you’ve had multiple surgeries on your throwing arm & hand.
until we can get a machine to throw these things EXACTLY the same way then a 3 disc comparison doesn't mean much of anything. My understanding is that lighter weight exaggerates the flight numbers so if you're throwing a neutral disc you might not notice any difference but if you're throwing a -1,2 disc, it might fly like a -2,3. The problem I have with throwing an occasional lightweight disc is that it doesn't rip out of my hand when I expect it to so I pull it bad. Something I haven't heard anyone address, but I think there may be merit to having your whole bag be the same weight that way it rips out of your hand at the exact same timing making it easier to hit your line which is more important IMHO
Elaine King said in a clinic that whatever weight you throw then do that mostly for your entire bag
More mvp videos, please 🙏
I love my lightweight Flick.
I use heavier Flicks for overhead throws, but the lightweight one makes a good sidearm driver. It's more understable, but not by much.
Thanks for the video. Like a lot of folks in the comments mentioned, I'm not sure that qualifies as a head wind you were throwing into. It looks like perfect throwing conditions to me, and I'd agree with your conclusions in essentially dead calm conditions. But in my experience lighter discs thrown with the same power as heavy discs into headwinds act way flippier.
definitely valid feedback! i did the best i could do
I just ordered a 150g roc3 to compare to my 175. The 150g Boss has served me well, but in the wind, I grab my 175 nuke.
Ill say i have a 174 halo wraith and a 140 factory dyed champ wraith and they fly identical. Both are new and i have weighed them both to confirm.
Been throwing MVP for about 4 years. It really seems like the Gyro just really helps with stability and forward push
My sense with MVP is the gyro shows up more in the heavier discs because you can only make the flight plate so thin...which is also why MVP stable feels more stable than your average disc because if you can't get the RPMs up on the disc, every disc is going to dump harder, but if you can it will hold the RPMs longer...aside from also probably being flatter, and domey discs have more air resistance which means more turn. This is also why you can buy lighter MVP discs and they'll still perform on a stability level with another manufacturer at a heavier weight, or more understable molds in heavier/max weights and they aren't uncontrollable...Lightweight discs definitely flip more cause of the relative speed increase out of the hand and larger effect the wind has on them. A few grams here and there won't tell the story, but a max 175g and a min 150g disc will definitely tell the tale, the lightweight disc will flip up easier and fade less, and vice versa the heavier disc will flip up less easily and fade more. That's also why the glitch flies the way it does, because it's so light and understable but with a stable-ish/neutral mold.
What I'd like to see is a review of understable fairway drivers, or distance drivers. For instance, I have a couple of Barsby Road Runners, one is 175g, and the other 145g. The lighter the disc, the more understable it appears to be. The heavier disc does not immediately want to stand up, and esp. turn to the right, but the 145 wants to head R out of the hand. Keep in mind, I am old and don't have the arm speed to achieve characteristics the numbers should demonstrate, so take it with a grain of salt. That said, lighter discs mean faster release = greater distance for us noodle arms. I can get 30 - 50 ft more distance with lighter discs, and that is worth it for me to throw them - unless it's super windy, then light discs mostly suck.
I agree. My light weight mvp discs hold the hyzer line better than light non gyro discs that tend to flip over easier.
Fission plastic, I usually subtract 10 grams from what I throw with standard discs.
I heard ohn scoggins say she throws lightweight destroyers in headwind. That gave me less hesitation to throw my 168g Destroyer in a headwind. Tested it out today, and was pleasantly surprised.
I have a set of shrykes from 141-173. Absolutely verified that the 141 flips insanely more with a 400ft throw. My bolts do the same, and a few other non gyro discs absolutely turn much more. My gyro discs, the photon did turn notably more, but not like the other brands
I do like this kind of review. Good to throw with tailwind and headwind. I have changed out my entire Driver lineup to lighter weight. I have noticed an improvement in my distance. I have also moved to less stable drivers along with the move to lighter weight. So not exactly sure if the distance gained is related to the less stability or the lighter weight. Currently throwing 164g Champion Beast, 159g ZLine Sorch, 169g Halo Mystere. And I am still not finding the turn advertized for these discs which suggest that I do not have enough arm speed for these. FH I will throw 163g star destroyer and I can get the turn advertized on these.
I always thought heavier discs would have more inertia to fight heavy winds. More mass = more energy = more resistance to wind force.
My game got considerably better when I started switching all my fairways and drivers to under 170g. 165 is my preferred weight. I was actually able to throw a fairway without that annoying fade. Lol
I agree MVP, especially fission, might not be the best way to compare this. I have a 168 Daedalus that flies completely different than my 164 Daedalus, both star plastic. I think the run of the disc has a lot to do with it too, not just the weight/model/plastic. This seems especially true with Innova which can be really inconsistent with flight numbers.
This is great but must be done with new plastic all same mold. A used heavy stable disc becomes flippy so this is hard.
My excperience is that gyro disc are stable even in lightweight. I have had couple of innova blizzard disc and they were flippy. 145g wraith was instant roller in flat release.
I have several MVP photons and MVP waves. All vary in weight. Weight has a drastic effect on the flight of the disc. I have decent distance for 51 yrs of age. I have one fission photon that is 152 grams that flips pretty quick and I usually only use it in tailwinds. I have another fission photon thats 162 grams thats really quite stable. My son has one thats 176 grams thats severely overstable. The same goes for my waves. I have three. My 146 fission wave I use as a tailwind turnover disc or backhand roller. I have another thats 10 grams heavier that goes pretty straight. Then my other is 175 grams and it is very stable and can handle headwinds.
Midranges and throwing putters are exactly the same in my experience. For every 10 grams lighter you go its like the turn increases by a whole point. I caught on to this relatively quick and use it to great advantage. For me, my favorite mid is the Hex. I currently throw 5 of them and each one acts like its got a different turn and fade number.
If you find a disc you really like just buy a whole bunch of them in different weights and plastics. I run into a local guy on one course who has an entire Zuca cart full of Luna putters that each act different. Weight has, by far, the biggest difference in stability of a disc.
Have mostly thrown heavy discs because I feel like they’re more predictable, but I’ve definitely gotten more distance from lighter discs
The Photon probably isn't the best disc to see much if any of a change in flight characteristics. It is too stable for most people to get to the point to turn right. The Wave would probably be a better test as that is closer to neutral.
more video like this please. would love to see a comparison of parting line height and dome. maybe try them forehand. do it with a midrange or fairway? what other companies can you do this with? hard to find discs under 160 from some companies.
My longest shot was done 157g wraith… they work, in strong wind, a little bit unstable.
Really liked the disk until it turnee ower to airfield…
If you really want to make a somewhat scientific comparison between different weights of the same disc mold, then you might consider a mechanical throwing device, like the one used to launch clay pigeons for target shooting.
The machine will not try to confirm a suspicion; it will launch the discs with consistent angle and velocity.
Consider this possibility: your hunches may subconsciously influence your throws.
Nonetheless, keep going!
I have a lightweight roadrunner thatis i tho k 143g and it is the flippiest disc I have in my bag, I use it for a cut roller disc.
please do this with other brands too
Light weight Axiom / MVP discs them fly liking people would expect. You are right that their discs are are very different than other Air/Blizzard discs because those Air options will will turn a lot more which isn't bad when throwing overstable discs but understable discs will roll.
Lightweight MVP discs turnover like crazy, what? Every 145g MVP disc I've ever seen is a roller machine.
I use with success a Felon 159 gr for approach throws on quite unhyzer throws and I see a very useful fight back on the left. Then, I use a lot of lightweight discs, especially understable discs, and in my experience (i have a very weak throw), if thrown hard they tend to excessive turnover flights...
Just as in weight-training, you gotta EARN that weight! I think consistency is the main reason people go to max-weight, or at least think they HAVE to use max-weight.
With the exception of my putter ,I throw the lightest disc I can get. At 68yo , I don’t like the heavy disc.
"its a little windy out here today" as he walks by a flag sitting perfectly still
I've been slowly bagging lighter discs. It's easier to get distance and I don't even notice The difference in stability
What about taking this the other way, practicing with a 250g disc? Its weird how everyone is sooo quick to shut it down. (Good way to injury yourself, just improve form) But the fact is that every other sport, practices with weighted equipment. Weighted clubs in golf. Weighted balls for pitching, donuts/sleeves for bats, etc. I'm not suggesting go out there and huck a 2.5lb plate.
Every course I play is windy af in ontario. 😂 my heavier disc's are wayyyy more reliable everytime I practice with both. I don't throw MVP maybe they're different but my tournament bag is set 😂🎉. No likey da MVP!
I am not a fan of light weight because of the timing issues it generates, that's why I hang with the 170-165 grams
I once bought a used Destroyer and realized it was like 163g. First and only destroyer to flip for me. I also traded discs once and got like a 140g Diamond and that was useless.
140 diamond must be DUMB FLIPPY
my experience whit real light weight ones is those stall earlyer than heavyer ones.
would like to see this on some mids
I still haven't broken in my 127g Blizzard Katana.
Another confusing topic for consumers of Discs are Flight Numbers. I throw a Bolt from Lat64 and now they have the Strive with almost the exact same numbers. Is this Disc companies running out of number combinations and just marketing new molds to sell discs????
If your argument is that you can throw a lightweight disk faster, then if the molds are exactly the same, it will be flippier. Think of the times you throw the exact same disc into a headwind. It’s always flippier. Oh, there’s no way you could prove it by taking this off the shelf. There has been countless videos, proving that molds and runs are not consistent. Discs have broken in faster or slower. So comparing to different Disc, even though they have the same name on them, probably doesn’t prove anything. But I do notice that disc that are more broken in, less durable plastic, and lighter weights will turn more. I know that’s not 100% of the time.
lightweight from discraft is fantastic
I like this but the photon is the absolute worst disc to do this with. Theyre quite well known to be wildly inconsistent discs
Even color can change stability though....invalid test unless they are identical color and batch #
i used what i had!
It would be nice to know the exact weight intersection where the plate is the lightest and the rim is the heaviest. By feel, the cutoff could be somewhere around 155-160 grams, that's where Photons usually stop being overstable for me.
This video is gold
Not that it’s much of a big deal but I e never ever had a disc weigh what it was marked straight from the shop. I take every disc home and weigh it and mark it with its exact weight.
Thanks for your review 🤙
IMO, lightweight over stable discs still are over stable. In most cases, for drivers.
My mids and putters will always be max weight.
167g is quite a bit different from 170g and 170g is quite a bit different from max weight.
Heavy discs vs light is more of a macho thing for all the players I know. "Light discs are for little kids". I'd say 90% of the people I've met on the course throw 175+ for all discs.
But... Here is KS - you're dealing with 20 mph winds regularly. Those super light discs get moved around way too much. I've found I prefer 166-168 for my stable to understable drivers and 171-172 for my overstable "headwind' drivers.
For sure depends on the mold
I have a 147 gram fission wave that is an absolute cheat code for me.
I throw a 146g photon that surprises people with its stability.
I just lost my fission photon today 😭
Thanks for the video Dillon. I always love your content. I bag between 155g to 165g discs. Anything 170 and over, I do not have a good time throwing.
His name is Dillon?! Never really wondered what his name was but cool to know, I guess. Thanks for that.
Dylan👋
@@IceBergTV Thx for the clarification, IceBerg.
@@IceBergTV I'm so sorry for the mistake.
@@robertmachnica9100 youre good!!! Thanks for the kind words👋
I don't have the arm speed to throw a max weight destroyer ... but a light weight destroyer (150 ish) is my max distance driver. It seems more flippy by a good margin to me.
is it blizzard champ? I've wondered about a DX destroyer or Pro destroyer.
@@timothyclark2876 The Destroyer I have in my bag currently is G Star.
Everything over a 9 speed is around 150 to 160. With my slower arm speed, I feel I can better get the disc up to speed to get a full flight. I throw gstar or esp flex in drivers.
Am i crazy or are all mvp discs more stable than their flight numbers? At least compared to other manufacturers..
They are and it's because most of their molds are much more flat than the average mold in that slot. That said, their lightweight discs, like the Fission line, are all roller machines.
I throw a 153g GStar Boss
Do different weights of Innova Ape.
28 grams per ounce. So not a huge difference.
That’s what my weed guy says
Where on Earth do you live if you call this little windy and a 167gramms a heavy disk? Was fun to watch though :)
Wind duh
Fun fact a photon is the same rim width as a destroyer.
PDGA specs say 2,2cm for some reason but MVP themselves rate it 21mm. Never seen any of my Photons and Destroyers match in rim thickness
They also call a timelapse a 22mm a panic 23mm a delirium 24.5mm. They like to under sell over deliver. I'm pretty sure they said the inertia and tesla were ten speeds initially and wave and photon were 12 speed. When they added flight numbers I remember being confused.
@@kroggee88 there were many vendor-issued flight numbers for MVP discs before they set official ones, those were indeed confusing.
22mm matches most 12 speeds and 23 is common for 13 speeds on the market, so pretty straightforward there IMO.
Do it!
its called a button. not a bu-on, gotta pronounce those T's brother
Light wind and light discs are great together, light discs and strong wind will end this debate immediately. Light drivers are great for getting more distance because the lighter weight allows for more speed out of the hand with similar effort. But I agree that if you throw light discs the same speed you wont be getting further,
Tfs❤
In my experience, MVP is the only company that really makes a 150g driver that is worth throwing. Without a Gyro rim, the disc just loses momentum and dumps too abruptly to really beat a heavier disc in distance.
The weakness with MVP is, their selection of overstable distance drivers in Fission is poor. Photon is nice for what it is, but it's slow and not an ideal maximum distance driver. Octane goes far, but it doesn't have stability reserve for wear. Hopefully there will be a Fission version of the Dimension, Panic or some other similar overstable fast driver in the near future.
Gyro does literally nothing, it's a marketing buzzword. If there was factually any benefit to it at all then everyone would be throwing MVP and every manufacturer would be doing something similar but there isn't a single scientific test that exists that shows gyro does literally anything whatsoever. Fission discs are also all roller machines outside a couple of the most overstable molds they make.
@@derpderpin1568 too bad you haven't watched at all what other companies have been doing in the past 20 years but thanks for the comment
Please stop referring to your videod curiosities as “scientific”, disc golf video makers.
F=ma
What weights do most of the pro use???higher weights or lower weights
✌️😎👌💯❤️🤔⛓️🥏⛓️🙏
Most pros use heavy but there are exceptions for sure
the debate was never really light weight discs are flippy its just that they are flippier in the wind. like WAY flipper