Really hoping a recall comes. There is no reason I should have to babysit my own BRAND NEW car's internals and dropping the oil pan like this, because of the potential of the engine completely seizing.
I hope Toyota allows us to go to a Subaru dealership to have the work done if a recall does indeed happen. I just don't trust the Toyota technicians. Yes there's a warranty if they screw anything up but I'm emotionally attached to the car.
On a scale of difficulty, this "repair" scores about a 1. Any tech can handle it. Toyota should have stuck their GE16 engine in this! Would of been sick! Too bad they're saddled with Subaru boxer garbage.
As a GR86 owner since May 2022, I really hope Toyota will announce a recall ASAP. I will be participating in the NASA track in November, and now I am concerned about engine failure during the track at any given time.
Recalls take time. Toyota won't just issue an instantaneous recall due to a couple instances of excess RTV. Drive and enjoy the car. You have a warranty.
@@JacesOwnWorld Why not? I used to have a Miata as a track slut. Then I moved to an FD RX-7 for the better part of 10 years. Then I got a ZL1 1LE Camaro. Then a year later I got an M2. Anything can be used as a track car. My GF already has her GR86 and she loves using it as a track toy as stock as it currently is. Since she'll be going to Japan for most of the fall and winter for business, and during then i'll be pulling the pan and the entire front cover off the block including pulling the oil pump to remove and inspect/prevent any likelihood of this issue coming to biter her when we start installing the BBK, Coilovers, and Hoosier slicks so that she can hit the Autocross events in the spring. Since she's got the GR86 already, I'll be getting the GR Corolla.
Was going to order a 2023 GR86 but there's no way I will now with this disaster of an issue. What a great way to screw up an otherwise good car. Well done.
I still like the idea of the GR86 > Z. Will wait to see if Toyobaru own up to the issue and fix it. If they do, will wait a year to make sure the fix is OK and will then think of ordering the car.
GR Corolla. New Z. base model C8. Miata. Camaro. Mustang. you've got loads of options of you want a fun car and you're worried about a GR86 eating itself.
Indeed I was set to go drive/purchase one of these until I learned of this issue, absolute bullshit the way it’s being handled…guess I’ll just hafta get an MX5-RF…..
If you are concerned with any flaw your car may have that could lead to potential safety in terms of a defect, file a complaint with nhtsa. If enough go through, they will open up an investigation and if they deem it enough to be worthy of a recall, they would make the company do it or they get shut down.
K-Vooooooooo! Thanks for the 86/BRZ content as always! I will plan to keep driving and enjoying mine until i hit 5k. If Toyota/Subaru hasnt announced anything by then, I will be having the pan dropped for inspection/peace of mind. It seems the worst ones I have seen have been around 5k-8k miles with about 80+% blockage. I think the scariest part is, if your borescope shows no excess, and your dipstick doesnt show excess, and the pick up tube is clogged, the only 100% sure way to know is to drop the pan to look in the pick up tube
If you are going to have an issue like this, why not place the oil pickup tube exit directly over the oil pan drain bolt hole and make the hole vertical so one can snake a bore scope directly vertical into the pickup screen? Would make the whole job far easier.
This issue's keeping me out of the market for this car. If I owned one I'd baby it till my first oil change and do the job whether warrantied or not and of course keep the bill.
@@Yourdeadmeat69 I dont blame you. Its still a great car, but time will tell how it will hold up over time. Seems a good amount if ppl have already dropped/cleaned the oil pick up, which is good, but I may just keep mine untampered with and just have it repaired under warranty (if anything happens within 5yrs/60k)
@@FujiboHeavy Think aneurysm, a weak artery that blows and boom you go from all's well to dead,I don't want a free engine. I'd have the service done at first oil change, and keep the receipt to charge the company back. Built right, this engine is a 300K mile engine, as opposed to the turbo version on the WRX which is too stressed and breaks. If you use it as a daily driver, it's got to be bulletproof. That's why my go to car is a mini SUV Kona Ultimate. It just runs and runs....and I never worry....
It's crazy how a similar issue happened with the 2013 models recall. The only difference being the excess RTV was applied for the recall and now the new ones come with it from the factory.
The only issue with Subaru's is their engines. Most will not know but as a Subaru tech back in the early 2000's we were resealing front covers and sumps all the time due to leaking. Seems that now they are putting on too much to compensate... Its a consistent problem they have had all the way up until now and I guess they still haven't clued up to it, despite the thousands potentially spent on warranty repairs. Ive always laughed at the fact Toyota uses a Subaru engine...they picked the worst part of a Subaru and its biting them hard... RTV seems to be Subaru's heel of sorts.
This is just terrible, I bought my 2019 WRX limited CVT brand new, pre-order from Japan, only 8k miles, already have oil leaks, all over the CVT oil pan, I wouldn’t notice it until I took my car in for an alignment in another shop. Well, my car is still under warranty, so they have to reseal it since it’s covered. But it is a pain in the ass to take my car in for that reason, I have to leave my car in the dealership for 2 weeks because awaiting for parts arrival. This is just sad and disappointing!!! We shouldn’t have to baby sit these cars to begin with other than regular scheduled maintenance. We believe in their label, and these are the reasons that they are in my garage. I just couldn’t believe they are running business like that these days!!
Great video! Question, is this also happening with the GR68 2023 models also? Mimi Premium comes in any day now so just want to be caught up on things to bring it to the dealers attention. Thanks as always!
Currently own a 2015 BRZ and fortunately have only had to do routine maintenance, I have been calling around to put money down for a track red gr86, but after reading and watching more about this issue, it looks like I'll keep waiting.
Went to my dealership at 11500km with my 22 BRZ to do the oil pan re-seal and they only found one little bit of rtv sillicone inside! Nothing to be scared of on my part ! And everything was done under warranty ! The technician who worked on my car said to me that a lot of subarus did this but it was really rare that their engines were blown because of it ! But still, subaru should be aware of the excess sillicone used to seal the pan ! We just have to check our oil frequently and change it at least every 5000kms and it should be fine !
The rtv is NOT from the oil pan in the gr86. We took the oil pan down and put new rtv on, just enough to seal and we drove another 1k miles and MORE rtv was in the pick up box ... AGAIN ... So its coming from somewhere else.
I was looking to buy either the gr86 or the 22 corolla hatchback in manual. I ultimately decided on the corolla for the Toyota engine in it. glad I did
Wow thank you so much for your intel/information on this, very much appreciated! 👏🏻❤️ I just purchased my 2023 GR86 Premium about a month ago and I'm about to hit 500 miles. I was wondering, will this apply for the 2023 as well? I'm going to take my car into the dealership at 1,000 miles to get this checked out, hopefully they can do this under my warranty! If not, I will definitely be extremely upset at this bozo move from Toyota.
Toyota/Subaru need to issue a recall for this. I've seen too many videos of newer 86s failing on the track despite not pushing it too hard I'll be waiting before I finally pick one of these up, hopefully near future models have this issue solved
Yep, pass until a full recall. You can’t trust any of them unless you drop the pan yourself. Even then, you have no idea of the excess wear due to oil starvation.
Thankyou for this vid. Gives me a much better understanding of what's going on. Tempted to do the first oil change myself so i can have a good look at what comes out and then take it to the dealership for it's official "first" one.
I really want a gr86 but i want it so I can go fast , if the rtv is gonna be a constant problem I might look into buying something else , what do you guys recommend ?
Thanks dude! Ever since I got my gr86 I've been following your channel. Great quality man, keep it coming!! Getting close to 1k miles on mine so im gonna boroscope the oil pan and see if I can see excess rtv. Wish me luck!
This is truly astonishing to me. I’ve working military aircraft for 21 years and I have never seen RTV used for an engine. We you crush gaskets or o-rings. Honestly not that much more expensive. Adhesive for some reason gets this credit like it’s the savior of everything.
RTV was used extensively on my Prius which had all kinds pf leaks when I move to different weather conditions. The glue decompesses and contracts depending on weather temperature. I had so many leaks to deal worth thousands of dollars to fix.
Ty Kevin for addressing the issue to the community, that will really help me to think 🤔 twice before making a purchase on these 2nd gen 86s, this is not kool that Toyota is not taking full responsibility in the first place after it came to this magnitude!! This is just sad, both Subaru and Toyota need to recall these cars, or else ppl just gonna file a class action lawsuit against them, then this will get their attention, we all know how this is gonna go down !!!
Turns out, there are more problems with this engine than just the RTV.. Recent video from a channel called '900BRZ' demonstrates that the new 2.4 has serious issues maintaining oil pressure in right hand corners. Dropping from the expected 55-60psi, down to 30 or 20psi. No bueno...
just do 1 time drop oil pan and re-seal it will fix rtv issue ? Im planning to buy gr86 This concern would make my decision to buy gr86 thx for answer !
Great video. In case SoA sees this, I was between ordering a 2023 Miata or a BRZ (called local dealers asking to place order when the order banks open) and I plan on getting a Miata because of this silicone debacle. Has it been corrected by now? I would hope, but why would i take that chance when SoA hasn't confirmed this has been corrected? This is a nightmare scenario to me, even if there isn't enough silicone to starve the engine outright initially, bits of silicone floating around, eventually sticking to internal oil passages is not something I want to worry about in a new car. Yes Mazda has trans issues with the ND but they kept revising it and have been good about replacing failed trans when they do occur.
I definitely hear you on this I wanted to a new BRZ I’m I’m just gonna get the miata for the same reason. Mazda has actively made the trans much better in the ND2 and even if you track the car while that normal may cause issues so far nobody has had an issue getting a new trans hell I got a new diff in my turbo 3 last week no questions asked
I'm curious why only 1 bearing is getting trashed in these failures. Is RTV getting into oil passages for only one bearing or something like that journal gets slightly less oil so it is the first to fail? Usually the oil pump chews that up and oil starvation causes equal damage/failure to all journals. The new oil pickup has plenty of surface area unless that entire pickup gets plugged (all 5 sides of the screen). It seems like there is an underlying issue, possibly exacerbated by RTV in the oil passages. The use of 0w-20 in high performance environments comes to mind....
I tried to explain it in the video. The RTV that's being found in the pickups could be coming from multiple locations. RTV is used on the oil pan, case halves, timing cover, oil pump, etc. There's no solid way of saying exactly where it's coming from because some of those locations are not easily accessible and it could be different from vehicle to vehicle.
I was going to buy a 2024 GR86, but scared away due to this RTV issue. I don't plan on tracking it, but it is a car I would of used as a daily and hope to keep it for a decade. With the RTV issue I worry about the reliability and longevity especially with how subaru is getting a bad rap with class action law suites against them for electronics and other things. I did today ask the sales manager the local "stealership" who has 2 GR86's coming in (so basically need to put a deposit down to lock them in) if the RTV issue was fixed on the 2024 models. His response was "we have not heard anything from Toyota regarding this issue for 2023 or 2024. Unless its big enough where Toyota will have a recall, I am not really sure what this issue is and how many cars are impacted." The GR86 checks all the boxes for me, but I can't move forward taking my hard earned cash and putting it into this since I feel Subaru has been making engines for a long time and this sounds like a simple fix to me - and the fact they are keeping everyone in the dark tells me they are not doing anything to fix the problem. The cars are 34k msrp where I live, vs 29k msrp. Just way to much to buy for something that may turn into a headache down the road. Really appreciate posting this video and educating folks on this. WRX and GR86 are great cars, but when I think of Subaru I don't think "reliability". I owned a 1998 Subara Imprezza 2.5RS. I bought it new and 4k miles after ownership, the engine had to be rebuilt due to some defect. At 26k miles, the drive-shaft fell off when driving down the highway. I avoided Subaru's ever since that experience but was willing to give them a 2nd chance with the GR86, but the red flags still in 2024 with this RTV issue tells me Subaru hasn't changed much since 1998. I have no idea why Reliability is not applied to making a vehicle to build loyal folks especially with how crazy expensive cars are these days - we need it to last for many many years.
Not to steer you away from the gr86 but that RTV issue is still popping up even with the 2023 and 2024 models… it seems to be ongoing plus it’s not just coming from the oil pan… I believe they used RTV all over the motor basically… plus it could happen even if you daily drive it. I just think most people are quiet about the issue and rather keep spending extra to drop the oil pan over and over again. The first gens didn’t quite have this RTV issue as much as the 2nd gens. I think during the pandemic Subaru wanted to cut costs with the RTV application. Now it’s costing them dearly.
My 2024 BRZ has around 5000km now, I've taken it for many spirited drives through mountains and canyons and the car is fine right now. I think this issue is a bit more relative to those who track their car regularly or those who are throwing serious g'a. Daily use and occasional spirited driving should be fine.
Totally appreciate this video -- As a GR86 owner, I'm just going to drive and enjoy my car. Warranty is there for a reason and my dealership's been pretty good with me, so I trust they'll take care of me throughout its ownership.
Scarborough dealership in Ontario said there are no plans for a recall and that I can come in if something is wrong with the car. Except there's no way if telling if something if wrong until a serious problem happens.
The problem is that the seal around the oil pan is not the only location that RTV is utilized so the broken bits that can be found in the pickup could come from other parts of the engine and not just the oil pan.
Damn! Nooooo! I been driving my 2013 Scion FRS since June 1, 2012. Will never forget that feeling. Been looking at the GR86 and love everything about it. It's cheap really want it, but damn this is sketchy!!!
Wasn't there a similar problem regarding the first gen cars? I vaguely remember that there was a recall of some type, and during the repairs, the Toyota technicians (who at the time were unfamiliar with the Subaru engine) were using too much RTV, with predictably bad results. The BRZs got repaired correctly because the Subaru technicians had more experience. I'm sure someone out there can correct me if I have this all wrong.
It's a common problem with using RTV. THEIR engineers have programmed the robot applicators to use more than necessary and this is the result. All to eliminate gaskets they consider "too expensive". As a retired Industrial Design Engineer, I have a lot of experience with this issue in various applications and the solutions are myriad. Use no more than absolutely necessary and in the most critical locations only. Use gaskets where best practice. Change to nonRTV sealant such as that used by Fiat, Honda, Ferrari, etc. It's all driven by marketing, accounting and non-engineers.
Too expensive to use the gasket?? Can’t believe they are going cheap on these kind of things. This will ruin their GR label too, GR represents Motorsport performance and quality…..this is just freaking insane!!!!
I am considering to purchase the Toyota GR86 2023 (Automatic) next year but I have some concerns. Lets say I want to purchase this car and since I now know RTV is a common and severe issue with Subaru BRZ and the GR86, am I able to have them check for RTV residue in the oil pickup tube before I purchase it? or do I have to purchase the car first and bring it to a dealership for RTV checkup? I really do want this car though.
kinda nervous since im waiting on my 2024 premium MT in less than 3 weeks, have you had any issues with it following this video? Or do you know if the newer models are experiencing the same thing? Thanks!
Excellent recap of issue. Not sure how you come to the opinion that it is not an issue in every car and that it’s not going to effect a large number of owners. In your case, no big deal… you drop the pan and service it periodically. But for anyone who can’t do that, how so you get comfortable that it is not accumulating over time without going to a dealer who may screw you. Been there.. done that with other services. Hopefully you report your findings in your vehicle. Thanks.
New cars can have issues, especially the first year of release. It's why some people wait a year or two before purchasing a new gen. That's also why warranties are in place. If you don't trust the warranty from a manufacturer I wouldn't buy from that manufacturer. I came to that opinion because the likelihood of every car accumulating a large enough amount of RTV to block oil flow is not high. There's plenty of cars out there that show no sign of the issue. Both street driven cars and track cars. Could they develop issues later? Sure, but we can't blow it out of proportion just because we see a few posts on the forums. Only people with issues post their problems. People that don't have problems usually aren't vocal about it.
@@KevinVo this is so absolutely true. Only those with complaints, complain. Also you have to think that out of thousands and thousands of cars. It's likely that a few percent could have issues. Until it becomes a major issue everyone sees, you just gotta pay close attention to your oil and cleaning what you can
I own a 2013 BRZ and got it resealed at a local dealer. I found out later that they overused RTV and it clogged my oil pickup screen. Now my car is broken and the Subaru dealership nor SOA wants to fix it even though I paid thousands for the “repair”
I used RTV on my wife's camry oil pan for a gasket. it's a v6 engine I stripped the oil pan during a oil change. this was about 6 years ago and never had a problem.
What about the folks who have cars where the pickup screen is partially blocked? This can be an issue by ruining the motor over time without the owner not even being aware. Maybe a good idea to install an oil pressure gauge in these cars.
Yep, this whole issue really pissed me off to the point where I sold my 2022 BRZ. Never again will even think of buying a Subaru or a Toyota. As a side note, as soon as I heard about this issue, I went down to the dealer I had ordered the car from and spoke to the service manager. I left angry after he kept telling me this issue was due to owner abuse and the dealer wouldn't do anything. I tried explaining what the issue was in plain, simple language but nope, to him this was customer abuse. Sadly, I found his mentality no different than many service managers I've talked to in the past at American manufacturing dealerships. This was after I had to negotiate going through the front door of the dealership as 4 women from the accounting department were standing about three feet from the front door smoking. Yeah, nothing better than breathing in somebody's second hand smoke only to have your intelligence insulted by a service manager. NEVER again will I darken the doors of a Subaru dealership. That whole green movement thing they espouse and taking care of the customer is a great marketing gimmick I won't fall for again.
do you think newer gr86s that are being MADE in the factories right now will keep the RTV issue in mind? Or do you think they wont care till they do the recall?
Any news on a recall for the RTV issue?! If I should have a problem will toyota take care of it .....or crap on me like they I think his name was Blake in the story?!
holy shit. i was about to buy a gr86... now im wondering if that's the right move? also, can people simply remove the RTV and install traditional gaskets?
Just change the RTV to gasket. Gasket will not leak if torqued properly. I am thinking about buying one so if I do, the first thing I would do is change the oil pan rtv to gasket.
Damn - this car is on my short list of vehicles I was planning on picking up in the next month or so. I am still in the research phase, but this bums me out.
@@KevinVo They found so so so much RTV I just came from dealership and they are going to push Toyota to cover taking the timing stuff off so they can properly remove all the rtv. I can send pictures
Lucky you found it at least. Can I ask what the build date of your car is (and also how many miles/km)? Just trying to get an understanding of whether it's specifically with cars that were built before a certain date.
Sober, informative and well done video. I'm not remotely concerned about this issue. Take care of your car properly during the break-in period, get your oil changed frequently (1000km, 2000km, 5000km) during the car's infancy, and monitor the behavior of the car. Take the appropriate steps if you have an issue. New cars have problems. It's not unique to the Toyobaru. While I think this incident was a learning experience for all involved, further exacerbating the situation by acting like a baby on internet forums and FB groups won't help people who don't share the isolated experience of the denied warranty claim and the madness that followed. Keep up the good work 🫡
Except they cant blame "new car problems" on this. Its the same engine subaru has been selling for 10 years in these cars. A little bigger cylinder bore and couple tweeks, but zero excuse as to why they cant use properly applied sealant. The problem comes for the vast majority of people who intend to modify this car. People will be running full exhaust, tunes, E85, turbos, superchargers etc. Those people will have no warranty. So if\when their engine blows up for a shitty design\process that is completely unrelated to any of their modifications, they will be screwed. Thats some BS. Nobody keeps these cars stock. They are too slow. I cant wait for a supercharger. That or trade it for a GR Corolla. Whichever comes 1st.
@@boost331 From a data standpoint, it has been one example of engine failure due to oil starvation from RTV clogging the pickup. I'm not saying that I don't think Subaru shouldn't do anything, I'm addressing the internet response to it. If a consumer chooses to boost their car and void their warranty, they are assuming the responsibility of what happens thereafter. This is not unique to this chassis. That's a decision that everyone has to make for themselves.
Did people complain this much last generation? since they had the same issue with worse design... Or were people only focus on complaining about torque dip/lack of power.
@@_fameONE One example? There was one example given in this video. According to the forums that I am a member of there have been several blown engines that appear to have no real cause. Sure some of the cars were raced on a track. Thats what they are for though. Some of them have never been raced and just developed rod knock while driving to the grocery store. Were they all caused by clogged pickup tubes? I cant say for sure, but they did all have RTV present. Modified or not modified, this is a problem that should not exist 10 years into production of what is basically the same engine.
@@boost331 - That is a good point. We don't really know how many engine failures have occurred because of excess RTV because not everyone shares their experience on social media.
Subaru Australia has been equally terrible tbh, when I contacted them about the issue and asked if a TSB was forthcoming, they said there were no known issues in Australia and that if I were to get the intake check done at a mechanic it could void warranty. If I did it myself, it would definitely void warranty. They also refused to provide a quote if they were to do the check themselves. In a crack up turn of events, they also provided a link to their generic T&C's detailing how warranty can be voided, and if you suspect an issue and do nothing to investigate further, guess what, warranty voided. At this stage, I'm driving it as a daily, and following the shitshow that was trying to deal with SA's support team, I dgaf if it blows any more.
Bro I don’t even own an 86 or FRS, I drive a hyundai kona 😂, im not even a car guy!!! But this channel is so good damn now I want an 86, videos are amazing!!!!
Subaru silicone is poor at best. Honda bond would do much better and doesn’t break apart so easily. You do want some squish. Honda bond doesn’t break off inside. Also it’s crappy engine design and the edges should be radiused to on covers to add more surface area to stick. Just look at inside if Honda oil pan and timing covers. I seen the two engine halves and it was sharp edges.
Thank you so much for this video! Based on all of the reviews, and videos I've seen around this car, I have been seriously considering selling my 95 Miata, and trading in my AWD Mazda 3 premium to simplify my life, and have one car to do all the things I need and want from a vehicle. Just test drove a 2022 with 7,000 mi on it, and fell in love 🥰. Now doing research to determine if it's actually a smart and a mature decision. Frankly, this issue gives me serious pause. My Miata has 206,000 mi, and has never experienced a mechanical failure in spite of multiple track days, and two trips cross country. Previously I had a 91 Acura Integra, that I sold with 282,000 mi, again without a single mechanical failure in spite of the fact that I drive my cars like I stole them. Reliability is even more important to me than having a car that feels like a soulmate. The dealership is telling me they offer a 12-month bumper to bumper, and the full remaining factory warranty on the car, but given the story you shared, I'm not sure that's enough to assuage my concerns. Regardless, really appreciate your thoughtful and informative video signed- Sitting on the fence 😬
There are dealerships that offer a lifetime powertrain warranty for free. I just bought my 2023 86 at MSRP today from a dealership like that. About to go pick it up in six hours (: I’ll post videos on my UA-cam about it
I had a 2022 Neptune Blue 86. Totaled in May by a lady who ran the stop sign and hit my drivers side going about 40. Had about 7k miles into it. Toyota checked and 0 was found inside my engine or oil. Just ordered my 2023 prem 86 Turino blue. Curious if this residue is from stock or people adding after market parts?
Does this RTV issue count for the first gen 86/brz too? So far, my 18' model 86 with 56k miles on it has been doing well so far with basic maintenance and some occasional spirited drive and small track usage.
There was a bit of this issue on the first gen as well, but I don't believe it was to this extent. I haven't seen a photo of the 1st gen pickup with the same amounts of RTV as 2nd gen owners.
I dont get why toyota couldnt do a complete teardown of the FA24 motor in the subaru like they did the B58 for any faults & get those standards up to toyotas specs. They are already saving money by doing a joint partnership with subaru. Massive oversight & poor QC all around
Toyota makes good cars, but in the end it's all about money and profits. But, it seems to me that Toyota and Subaru would save money doing a recall/inspection rather than replace a bunch of engines under warranty.
Even Toyota can make this mistake, ever think about that? Maybe Toyota approved the amount of RTV not knowing it was too much. Also, this isn't the exact same FA24 as the rest of the Subarus, the FA24D in the twins are the only ones with D-4S, aka Toyota's port and direct injection, the FA24F in the rest of the Subarus don't have this RTV issue, is direct injection only, with a turbo, and lower compression. This isn't just an engine Toyota bought from another company like the B58, they actually used their tech on it and somewhat co-developed.
You can, but you'd have to have them custom made as they're not mass produced and by the end it'll be very costly if you're replacing every single RTV seal.
Excellent video. I canceled my order on 2023 BRZ even though i luv the car. For current owners, i would suggest installing an oil pressure gauge to assist in monitoring pluggage and restrictions.
@Michael Benson A pressure gauge is located after the oil filter and the oil pump. If there was a restriction on the pump suction the Pressure would drop from normal operating pressure, or if the pump was truly being starved, the pressure would drop below normal pressure and the pressure would swing for a particular rpm. If I remember correctly, the rule of thumb for oil pressure is 10 psig per 1000 rpm.
I think you jumped to conclusions too hastily based on possibly bad data. The RTV issue is very doubtfully the root cause of the actual failures. If you don't track your Toyobaru you can overfill by up to 1 liter and unless you have a very high speed setup that throws tons of G forces, that has been demonstrated to be effective at mitigating the pressure loss experienced during high-G turns. Keep your PCV valve serviced and keep your oil topped off with 5w-20/30. It will be fine.
should i also be conserned of this, when im planning on getting a 2013 gt86, that had its engine rebuilt, after the old owner didnt put enough oil in it ?
Great video, Kevin! Helpful and informative. I see you mentioned the RTV issue won't affect the majority of drivers, are you more so referring to us drivers who aren't planning on tracking/autocrossing the car? I got my GR86 about 3 months ago, and im barely at 600 miles. I've seen most people drop their oil pans and check their pickups anywhere between 4k-8k miles. At what mileage intervals should I finally start checking? If I'm just dailying it, at what point in time should I actually be worried about the pick up being clogged up?
I'm referring to owners in general. Yes, tracking and autocrossing the car can increase the potential of failures (not just referring to RTV failures), but unless you have an absurd amount of RTV stuck in their, the pickup can still supply oil to the engine. As for when to drop the oil pan if you want to check, no one can tell you when you should do it. There have been cars with 500 miles to cars with over 10k miles that have done it and found RTV in the pickup, but there have also been cars that have been driving for thousands of miles with no issues whatsoever as well. Just drive the car. If you're that worried talk to your dealership.
Really hoping a recall comes. There is no reason I should have to babysit my own BRAND NEW car's internals and dropping the oil pan like this, because of the potential of the engine completely seizing.
Only time will tell! It's very frustrating indeed!
I hope Toyota allows us to go to a Subaru dealership to have the work done if a recall does indeed happen. I just don't trust the Toyota technicians. Yes there's a warranty if they screw anything up but I'm emotionally attached to the car.
I totally agree.
On a scale of difficulty, this "repair" scores about a 1. Any tech can handle it. Toyota should have stuck their GE16 engine in this! Would of been sick! Too bad they're saddled with Subaru boxer garbage.
It's not, it will be a tsb at most.
As a GR86 owner since May 2022, I really hope Toyota will announce a recall ASAP. I will be participating in the NASA track in November, and now I am concerned about engine failure during the track at any given time.
Recalls take time. Toyota won't just issue an instantaneous recall due to a couple instances of excess RTV. Drive and enjoy the car. You have a warranty.
Why did you buy a GR86 as a track car in the first place? 🤣
@@JacesOwnWorld because its a great drivers car???
@@JacesOwnWorld because it is one of THE BEST driver's car for handling and feel? Or I guess you think a Hellcat is best for the track because 800HP
@@JacesOwnWorld Why not?
I used to have a Miata as a track slut. Then I moved to an FD RX-7 for the better part of 10 years. Then I got a ZL1 1LE Camaro. Then a year later I got an M2. Anything can be used as a track car.
My GF already has her GR86 and she loves using it as a track toy as stock as it currently is. Since she'll be going to Japan for most of the fall and winter for business, and during then i'll be pulling the pan and the entire front cover off the block including pulling the oil pump to remove and inspect/prevent any likelihood of this issue coming to biter her when we start installing the BBK, Coilovers, and Hoosier slicks so that she can hit the Autocross events in the spring.
Since she's got the GR86 already, I'll be getting the GR Corolla.
This is really good.
If consumers do NOTHING, companies will walk all over us. We NEED to demand accountability otherwise we will get screwed over.
As a new owner of a GR 86, an unaware of this problem, I have to say this was a great video. Thank you for this!
Still an issue with 2023/24 models?
This is the most informative RTV issue video I’ve seen so far
Glad you found it informative!
Glad that Toyota is getting so much flack for this, I watched Blake's story unfold and it's unbelievable that they would've handled it like that.
if he didnt shared what he went thru and blew up, we wouldnt know anything about it and same thing couldve happened to other owners of 86/brz
i thought it was the dealership, not Toyota corporate
Was going to order a 2023 GR86 but there's no way I will now with this disaster of an issue. What a great way to screw up an otherwise good car. Well done.
Buy a z
I still like the idea of the GR86 > Z. Will wait to see if Toyobaru own up to the issue and fix it. If they do, will wait a year to make sure the fix is OK and will then think of ordering the car.
@@shahrukhbakar3248 buy used z do a overhaul get a tune. Done
GR Corolla. New Z. base model C8. Miata. Camaro. Mustang.
you've got loads of options of you want a fun car and you're worried about a GR86 eating itself.
Indeed I was set to go drive/purchase one of these until I learned of this issue, absolute bullshit the way it’s being handled…guess I’ll just hafta get an MX5-RF…..
If you are concerned with any flaw your car may have that could lead to potential safety in terms of a defect, file a complaint with nhtsa. If enough go through, they will open up an investigation and if they deem it enough to be worthy of a recall, they would make the company do it or they get shut down.
Wow, this is insane. I would stay clear of this car until a warranty comes out and they have a proper solution to further builds.
Yup, I’m getting a bike until they do.
that's the reason I did NOT buy this car
@@agj6022same here man, guess i just get me a 370z or first gen
@@agj6022 Kind of a silly reason, with how much this issue is blown out of proportion
K-Vooooooooo! Thanks for the 86/BRZ content as always! I will plan to keep driving and enjoying mine until i hit 5k. If Toyota/Subaru hasnt announced anything by then, I will be having the pan dropped for inspection/peace of mind. It seems the worst ones I have seen have been around 5k-8k miles with about 80+% blockage. I think the scariest part is, if your borescope shows no excess, and your dipstick doesnt show excess, and the pick up tube is clogged, the only 100% sure way to know is to drop the pan to look in the pick up tube
Thanks for watching! Yeah, unfortunately, no easy way to check other than that.
If you are going to have an issue like this, why not place the oil pickup tube exit directly over the oil pan drain bolt hole and make the hole vertical so one can snake a bore scope directly vertical into the pickup screen? Would make the whole job far easier.
This issue's keeping me out of the market for this car. If I owned one I'd baby it till my first oil change and do the job whether warrantied or not and of course keep the bill.
@@Yourdeadmeat69 I dont blame you. Its still a great car, but time will tell how it will hold up over time. Seems a good amount if ppl have already dropped/cleaned the oil pick up, which is good, but I may just keep mine untampered with and just have it repaired under warranty (if anything happens within 5yrs/60k)
@@FujiboHeavy Think aneurysm, a weak artery that blows and boom you go from all's well to dead,I don't want a free engine. I'd have the service done at first oil change, and keep the receipt to charge the company back.
Built right, this engine is a 300K mile engine, as opposed to the turbo version on the WRX which is too stressed and breaks. If you use it as a daily driver, it's got to be bulletproof. That's why my go to car is a mini SUV Kona Ultimate. It just runs and runs....and I never worry....
It's crazy how a similar issue happened with the 2013 models recall. The only difference being the excess RTV was applied for the recall and now the new ones come with it from the factory.
The only issue with Subaru's is their engines.
Most will not know but as a Subaru tech back in the early 2000's we were resealing front covers and sumps all the time due to leaking. Seems that now they are putting on too much to compensate...
Its a consistent problem they have had all the way up until now and I guess they still haven't clued up to it, despite the thousands potentially spent on warranty repairs.
Ive always laughed at the fact Toyota uses a Subaru engine...they picked the worst part of a Subaru and its biting them hard...
RTV seems to be Subaru's heel of sorts.
This is just terrible, I bought my 2019 WRX limited CVT brand new, pre-order from Japan, only 8k miles, already have oil leaks, all over the CVT oil pan, I wouldn’t notice it until I took my car in for an alignment in another shop. Well, my car is still under warranty, so they have to reseal it since it’s covered. But it is a pain in the ass to take my car in for that reason, I have to leave my car in the dealership for 2 weeks because awaiting for parts arrival. This is just sad and disappointing!!! We shouldn’t have to baby sit these cars to begin with other than regular scheduled maintenance. We believe in their label, and these are the reasons that they are in my garage. I just couldn’t believe they are running business like that these days!!
At least the Subaru head gasket issues appear to have been fixed.
Thank you so much for being concise and clear 😭 As someone who doesnt know much bout cars, I understood everything you said.
Great video! Question, is this also happening with the GR68 2023 models also? Mimi Premium comes in any day now so just want to be caught up on things to bring it to the dealers attention. Thanks as always!
Currently own a 2015 BRZ and fortunately have only had to do routine maintenance, I have been calling around to put money down for a track red gr86, but after reading and watching more about this issue, it looks like I'll keep waiting.
Went to my dealership at 11500km with my 22 BRZ to do the oil pan re-seal and they only found one little bit of rtv sillicone inside! Nothing to be scared of on my part ! And everything was done under warranty ! The technician who worked on my car said to me that a lot of subarus did this but it was really rare that their engines were blown because of it ! But still, subaru should be aware of the excess sillicone used to seal the pan ! We just have to check our oil frequently and change it at least every 5000kms and it should be fine !
Hello! Did you ask for the oil pan re-seal due to any particular issue you noticed or was it just preventative on your part?
I have a 2024 model and Should I still keep a eye this problem??
The rtv is NOT from the oil pan in the gr86. We took the oil pan down and put new rtv on, just enough to seal and we drove another 1k miles and MORE rtv was in the pick up box ... AGAIN ...
So its coming from somewhere else.
They use the rtv all over the place. From the heads, the cam carriers and the cam plate.
Yeah, the rtv you just resealed the oil pan with
@@tone3560 You should seriously comprehend what you read
@@ACommenterOnUA-cam I did and you put too much rtv when you resealed it but you didnt take that into account
@@tone3560 Oh were you there with US when we put the RTV on the oil pan ??
Did you SEE that we put on too much RTV ??
SMH
Im getting my first oil change at 5k, im extremely nervous about the RTV issue. I'm going to have toyota do it.
If you can get the dealership to do it for you then I'd say go ahead! You have a warranty though so don't be nervous.
I was looking to buy either the gr86 or the 22 corolla hatchback in manual. I ultimately decided on the corolla for the Toyota engine in it. glad I did
Wow thank you so much for your intel/information on this, very much appreciated! 👏🏻❤️ I just purchased my 2023 GR86 Premium about a month ago and I'm about to hit 500 miles. I was wondering, will this apply for the 2023 as well? I'm going to take my car into the dealership at 1,000 miles to get this checked out, hopefully they can do this under my warranty! If not, I will definitely be extremely upset at this bozo move from Toyota.
Same boat! Hoping maybe issue has been fixed with the 2023 models 🙊🥺
Did you happen to drive 500 miles is done and got a check
@@Vasquez19781got it fixed?
Toyota/Subaru need to issue a recall for this. I've seen too many videos of newer 86s failing on the track despite not pushing it too hard
I'll be waiting before I finally pick one of these up, hopefully near future models have this issue solved
I thought it was the dealer that Blake went through that searched his social media and denied not, not Toyota itself?
Yes, I think you are right.
Was considering a gr86 until i saw this vid, thank you, ill stick to my original decision and get a ND roadster
Excellent video. My GR86 is being built right now. I hope they've fixed whatever it was that went wrong in the factory.
Thanks for watching!
Has it arrived?
Does anyone know if Toyota-Subaru has corrected this for 2023 models? Thanks.
Yep, pass until a full recall. You can’t trust any of them unless you drop the pan yourself. Even then, you have no idea of the excess wear due to oil starvation.
Thankyou for this vid. Gives me a much better understanding of what's going on. Tempted to do the first oil change myself so i can have a good look at what comes out and then take it to the dealership for it's official "first" one.
Well well well... it happened
My condolences kev, i highly appreciate the promised update👍
Ask and you shall receive.
Soooo, when the 2024 one comes out and I buy it... am I gonna have this issue? Or have they fixed it?
I really want a gr86 but i want it so I can go fast , if the rtv is gonna be a constant problem I might look into buying something else , what do you guys recommend ?
I look forward to seeing what you find. So far I have not seen a single person drop their oil pan to find a clean pickup tube. Not 1.
Hopefully Subaru fixes this ASAP before making/delivering mine…
Thanks dude! Ever since I got my gr86 I've been following your channel. Great quality man, keep it coming!! Getting close to 1k miles on mine so im gonna boroscope the oil pan and see if I can see excess rtv. Wish me luck!
Thanks for watching!!!
Why did you find?
Did you find anything?
why do these people post things like this and then ignore everyone asking what happened?
This is truly astonishing to me. I’ve working military aircraft for 21 years and I have never seen RTV used for an engine. We you crush gaskets or o-rings. Honestly not that much more expensive. Adhesive for some reason gets this credit like it’s the savior of everything.
RTV was used extensively on my Prius which had all kinds pf leaks when I move to different weather conditions. The glue decompesses and contracts depending on weather temperature. I had so many leaks to deal worth thousands of dollars to fix.
thanks Kevin, very knowledgeable as always
Thanks for watching!
Ty Kevin for addressing the issue to the community, that will really help me to think 🤔 twice before making a purchase on these 2nd gen 86s, this is not kool that Toyota is not taking full responsibility in the first place after it came to this magnitude!! This is just sad, both Subaru and Toyota need to recall these cars, or else ppl just gonna file a class action lawsuit against them, then this will get their attention, we all know how this is gonna go down !!!
Turns out, there are more problems with this engine than just the RTV..
Recent video from a channel called '900BRZ' demonstrates that the new 2.4 has serious issues maintaining oil pressure in right hand corners. Dropping from the expected 55-60psi, down to 30 or 20psi. No bueno...
So does the 3 cylinder in the GR Corolla
just do 1 time drop oil pan and re-seal it will fix rtv issue ? Im planning to buy gr86 This concern would make my decision to buy gr86 thx for answer !
Great video. In case SoA sees this, I was between ordering a 2023 Miata or a BRZ (called local dealers asking to place order when the order banks open) and I plan on getting a Miata because of this silicone debacle. Has it been corrected by now? I would hope, but why would i take that chance when SoA hasn't confirmed this has been corrected? This is a nightmare scenario to me, even if there isn't enough silicone to starve the engine outright initially, bits of silicone floating around, eventually sticking to internal oil passages is not something I want to worry about in a new car. Yes Mazda has trans issues with the ND but they kept revising it and have been good about replacing failed trans when they do occur.
I definitely hear you on this I wanted to a new BRZ I’m I’m just gonna get the miata for the same reason. Mazda has actively made the trans much better in the ND2 and even if you track the car while that normal may cause issues so far nobody has had an issue getting a new trans hell I got a new diff in my turbo 3 last week no questions asked
How long should we wait until bringing this to the dealership to get it checked for RTV issues?
I'm curious why only 1 bearing is getting trashed in these failures.
Is RTV getting into oil passages for only one bearing or something like that journal gets slightly less oil so it is the first to fail? Usually the oil pump chews that up and oil starvation causes equal damage/failure to all journals. The new oil pickup has plenty of surface area unless that entire pickup gets plugged (all 5 sides of the screen).
It seems like there is an underlying issue, possibly exacerbated by RTV in the oil passages.
The use of 0w-20 in high performance environments comes to mind....
Any idea if the 2024 has this issue?
What about where the excess rtv is coming from? Is it from the oil pan rtv, or is it coming from somewhere else and falling into the pan?
I tried to explain it in the video. The RTV that's being found in the pickups could be coming from multiple locations. RTV is used on the oil pan, case halves, timing cover, oil pump, etc. There's no solid way of saying exactly where it's coming from because some of those locations are not easily accessible and it could be different from vehicle to vehicle.
yes
Will we experience this issue if we daily this car? I imagine most of this issue is from tracking it.
I'm glad they honoured the warranty.
I was going to buy a 2024 GR86, but scared away due to this RTV issue. I don't plan on tracking it, but it is a car I would of used as a daily and hope to keep it for a decade. With the RTV issue I worry about the reliability and longevity especially with how subaru is getting a bad rap with class action law suites against them for electronics and other things. I did today ask the sales manager the local "stealership" who has 2 GR86's coming in (so basically need to put a deposit down to lock them in) if the RTV issue was fixed on the 2024 models. His response was "we have not heard anything from Toyota regarding this issue for 2023 or 2024. Unless its big enough where Toyota will have a recall, I am not really sure what this issue is and how many cars are impacted." The GR86 checks all the boxes for me, but I can't move forward taking my hard earned cash and putting it into this since I feel Subaru has been making engines for a long time and this sounds like a simple fix to me - and the fact they are keeping everyone in the dark tells me they are not doing anything to fix the problem. The cars are 34k msrp where I live, vs 29k msrp. Just way to much to buy for something that may turn into a headache down the road. Really appreciate posting this video and educating folks on this. WRX and GR86 are great cars, but when I think of Subaru I don't think "reliability". I owned a 1998 Subara Imprezza 2.5RS. I bought it new and 4k miles after ownership, the engine had to be rebuilt due to some defect. At 26k miles, the drive-shaft fell off when driving down the highway. I avoided Subaru's ever since that experience but was willing to give them a 2nd chance with the GR86, but the red flags still in 2024 with this RTV issue tells me Subaru hasn't changed much since 1998. I have no idea why Reliability is not applied to making a vehicle to build loyal folks especially with how crazy expensive cars are these days - we need it to last for many many years.
Not to steer you away from the gr86 but that RTV issue is still popping up even with the 2023 and 2024 models… it seems to be ongoing plus it’s not just coming from the oil pan… I believe they used RTV all over the motor basically… plus it could happen even if you daily drive it. I just think most people are quiet about the issue and rather keep spending extra to drop the oil pan over and over again. The first gens didn’t quite have this RTV issue as much as the 2nd gens. I think during the pandemic Subaru wanted to cut costs with the RTV application. Now it’s costing them dearly.
My 2024 BRZ has around 5000km now, I've taken it for many spirited drives through mountains and canyons and the car is fine right now. I think this issue is a bit more relative to those who track their car regularly or those who are throwing serious g'a. Daily use and occasional spirited driving should be fine.
Totally appreciate this video -- As a GR86 owner, I'm just going to drive and enjoy my car. Warranty is there for a reason and my dealership's been pretty good with me, so I trust they'll take care of me throughout its ownership.
Scarborough dealership in Ontario said there are no plans for a recall and that I can come in if something is wrong with the car. Except there's no way if telling if something if wrong until a serious problem happens.
Wonder if any aftermarket supplier can develop a gasket replacement for the RTV?
The problem is that the seal around the oil pan is not the only location that RTV is utilized so the broken bits that can be found in the pickup could come from other parts of the engine and not just the oil pan.
Damn! Nooooo! I been driving my 2013 Scion FRS since June 1, 2012. Will never forget that feeling. Been looking at the GR86 and love everything about it. It's cheap really want it, but damn this is sketchy!!!
I want one GR86 but this issue might change my mind, never been a huge fan of the Subaru motor.
Keep in mind, there's lots of these cars driving around with no issues whatsoever. Let's hope it gets addressed.
@KevinVo - that they are aware of…
Wasn't there a similar problem regarding the first gen cars? I vaguely remember that there was a recall of some type, and during the repairs, the Toyota technicians (who at the time were unfamiliar with the Subaru engine) were using too much RTV, with predictably bad results. The BRZs got repaired correctly because the Subaru technicians had more experience. I'm sure someone out there can correct me if I have this all wrong.
Valve spring recalls on the 2013 models
Is this still an issue in the 2023 GR86?
I just bought one and am currently 2700 miles in with no issues
Latest gr 86
It's a common problem with using RTV. THEIR engineers have programmed the robot applicators to use more than necessary and this is the result. All to eliminate gaskets they consider "too expensive". As a retired Industrial Design Engineer, I have a lot of experience with this issue in various applications and the solutions are myriad. Use no more than absolutely necessary and in the most critical locations only. Use gaskets where best practice. Change to nonRTV sealant such as that used by Fiat, Honda, Ferrari, etc. It's all driven by marketing, accounting and non-engineers.
Too expensive to use the gasket?? Can’t believe they are going cheap on these kind of things. This will ruin their GR label too, GR represents Motorsport performance and quality…..this is just freaking insane!!!!
I called university Subaru about mine a couple weeks ago and the service tech literally said he hasn't heard anything about it
I'm not surprised. It's not as big of an issue as a lot of people are making it out to be.
I am considering to purchase the Toyota GR86 2023 (Automatic) next year but I have some concerns. Lets say I want to purchase this car and since I now know RTV is a common and severe issue with Subaru BRZ and the GR86, am I able to have them check for RTV residue in the oil pickup tube before I purchase it? or do I have to purchase the car first and bring it to a dealership for RTV checkup? I really do want this car though.
kinda nervous since im waiting on my 2024 premium MT in less than 3 weeks, have you had any issues with it following this video? Or do you know if the newer models are experiencing the same thing? Thanks!
Isn’t there an oil pressure warning when the oil screen gets blocked?
I have the 2024, i gonna have the same problem?? I bought the car a month ago, i kinda worry to keep driving the car
Excellent recap of issue. Not sure how you come to the opinion that it is not an issue in every car and that it’s not going to effect a large number of owners. In your case, no big deal… you drop the pan and service it periodically. But for anyone who can’t do that, how so you get comfortable that it is not accumulating over time without going to a dealer who may screw you. Been there.. done that with other services.
Hopefully you report your findings in your vehicle. Thanks.
New cars can have issues, especially the first year of release. It's why some people wait a year or two before purchasing a new gen. That's also why warranties are in place. If you don't trust the warranty from a manufacturer I wouldn't buy from that manufacturer. I came to that opinion because the likelihood of every car accumulating a large enough amount of RTV to block oil flow is not high. There's plenty of cars out there that show no sign of the issue. Both street driven cars and track cars. Could they develop issues later? Sure, but we can't blow it out of proportion just because we see a few posts on the forums. Only people with issues post their problems. People that don't have problems usually aren't vocal about it.
@@KevinVo this is so absolutely true. Only those with complaints, complain. Also you have to think that out of thousands and thousands of cars. It's likely that a few percent could have issues. Until it becomes a major issue everyone sees, you just gotta pay close attention to your oil and cleaning what you can
I own a 2013 BRZ and got it resealed at a local dealer. I found out later that they overused RTV and it clogged my oil pickup screen. Now my car is broken and the Subaru dealership nor SOA wants to fix it even though I paid thousands for the “repair”
I used RTV on my wife's camry oil pan for a gasket. it's a v6 engine I stripped the oil pan during a oil change. this was about 6 years ago and never had a problem.
What about the folks who have cars where the pickup screen is partially blocked? This can be an issue by ruining the motor over time without the owner not even being aware. Maybe a good idea to install an oil pressure gauge in these cars.
A pressure gauge would be a good idea. With the new 5 sided design it would take an absurd amount of rtv to block all the screens.
This has been an issue since the early days of the FRS/GT86. That is what happens when they replaced rubber gaskets with RTV
Good info and thank you. Gonna pass on this car now.
@@jesh879 I had one and it was trouble free for the 6 years I had it. But it was not a good daily driver.
Is it the only once to remove the RTV? or should i check the oil pan often?
Has Toyota fixed this for the 2023 models??
Awsome video! great research! answered a lot of my questions!
Yep, this whole issue really pissed me off to the point where I sold my 2022 BRZ. Never again will even think of buying a Subaru or a Toyota. As a side note, as soon as I heard about this issue, I went down to the dealer I had ordered the car from and spoke to the service manager. I left angry after he kept telling me this issue was due to owner abuse and the dealer wouldn't do anything. I tried explaining what the issue was in plain, simple language but nope, to him this was customer abuse. Sadly, I found his mentality no different than many service managers I've talked to in the past at American manufacturing dealerships. This was after I had to negotiate going through the front door of the dealership as 4 women from the accounting department were standing about three feet from the front door smoking. Yeah, nothing better than breathing in somebody's second hand smoke only to have your intelligence insulted by a service manager. NEVER again will I darken the doors of a Subaru dealership. That whole green movement thing they espouse and taking care of the customer is a great marketing gimmick I won't fall for again.
Subaru made the engine. Toyota only made the direct injection fuel system
do you think newer gr86s that are being MADE in the factories right now will keep the RTV issue in mind? Or do you think they wont care till they do the recall?
I think Subaru does crappy engines
Any news on a recall for the RTV issue?! If I should have a problem will toyota take care of it .....or crap on me like they I think his name was Blake in the story?!
Why we don’t hear about this issue for the first gen cars but it blowed up for the second gen?
The internet works in mysterious ways. With how much social media has grown I would say it's in part due to that.
They blow after the "valve recall" go figure.
holy shit. i was about to buy a gr86... now im wondering if that's the right move?
also, can people simply remove the RTV and install traditional gaskets?
Thanks for the informative video! Will there be a part two, showing if your car had any RTV in the pick up or if it was clean?
Eventually there will be a part two. I can't say when that's coming yet though.
Just change the RTV to gasket. Gasket will not leak if torqued properly. I am thinking about buying one so if I do, the first thing I would do is change the oil pan rtv to gasket.
Damn - this car is on my short list of vehicles I was planning on picking up in the next month or so. I am still in the research phase, but this bums me out.
Don't let it sway your decision too much. The car is still fantastic and there's plenty of people out there enjoying it as they should.
This issue is a ticking time bomb , I’ll look elsewhere until the next year model
My GR86 is at the dealer now with them dropping the oil pan, $400 unfortunately.
So did they find any in your pickup?
@@KevinVo They found so so so much RTV I just came from dealership and they are going to push Toyota to cover taking the timing stuff off so they can properly remove all the rtv. I can send pictures
@@CruiseControl1 I hope they cover it all and get it taken care of for you!
Lucky you found it at least. Can I ask what the build date of your car is (and also how many miles/km)? Just trying to get an understanding of whether it's specifically with cars that were built before a certain date.
@@KevinVo I had to pay $400 to drop the pan but hopefully for the rest Toyota will cover
Warranty denied due to racing... I would have asked Toyota "What does the R in GR 86 mean?? You literally named this car RACING"
It's called racing for a reason!
To race to the grocery store as quickly as possible and back!
@@haaxxx9 Grocery Racer 86 lol
Great Reliability
Is it possible to drop the oil pan and fix the issue preemptively?
Hi Kevin.
Great explain! And man, what can you talk, don't forget to breath. :) You can sell everything, you will have a great future!
Was going to buy Gr86, but I'm going to buy something else now. Thanks for the heads up. 😮
Sober, informative and well done video.
I'm not remotely concerned about this issue. Take care of your car properly during the break-in period, get your oil changed frequently (1000km, 2000km, 5000km) during the car's infancy, and monitor the behavior of the car. Take the appropriate steps if you have an issue.
New cars have problems. It's not unique to the Toyobaru. While I think this incident was a learning experience for all involved, further exacerbating the situation by acting like a baby on internet forums and FB groups won't help people who don't share the isolated experience of the denied warranty claim and the madness that followed.
Keep up the good work 🫡
Except they cant blame "new car problems" on this. Its the same engine subaru has been selling for 10 years in these cars. A little bigger cylinder bore and couple tweeks, but zero excuse as to why they cant use properly applied sealant. The problem comes for the vast majority of people who intend to modify this car. People will be running full exhaust, tunes, E85, turbos, superchargers etc. Those people will have no warranty. So if\when their engine blows up for a shitty design\process that is completely unrelated to any of their modifications, they will be screwed. Thats some BS. Nobody keeps these cars stock. They are too slow. I cant wait for a supercharger. That or trade it for a GR Corolla. Whichever comes 1st.
@@boost331 From a data standpoint, it has been one example of engine failure due to oil starvation from RTV clogging the pickup. I'm not saying that I don't think Subaru shouldn't do anything, I'm addressing the internet response to it.
If a consumer chooses to boost their car and void their warranty, they are assuming the responsibility of what happens thereafter. This is not unique to this chassis. That's a decision that everyone has to make for themselves.
Did people complain this much last generation? since they had the same issue with worse design... Or were people only focus on complaining about torque dip/lack of power.
@@_fameONE One example? There was one example given in this video. According to the forums that I am a member of there have been several blown engines that appear to have no real cause. Sure some of the cars were raced on a track. Thats what they are for though. Some of them have never been raced and just developed rod knock while driving to the grocery store. Were they all caused by clogged pickup tubes? I cant say for sure, but they did all have RTV present. Modified or not modified, this is a problem that should not exist 10 years into production of what is basically the same engine.
@@boost331 - That is a good point. We don't really know how many engine failures have occurred because of excess RTV because not everyone shares their experience on social media.
Subaru Australia has been equally terrible tbh, when I contacted them about the issue and asked if a TSB was forthcoming, they said there were no known issues in Australia and that if I were to get the intake check done at a mechanic it could void warranty. If I did it myself, it would definitely void warranty. They also refused to provide a quote if they were to do the check themselves. In a crack up turn of events, they also provided a link to their generic T&C's detailing how warranty can be voided, and if you suspect an issue and do nothing to investigate further, guess what, warranty voided. At this stage, I'm driving it as a daily, and following the shitshow that was trying to deal with SA's support team, I dgaf if it blows any more.
Bro I don’t even own an 86 or FRS, I drive a hyundai kona 😂, im not even a car guy!!! But this channel is so good damn now I want an 86, videos are amazing!!!!
Subaru silicone is poor at best. Honda bond would do much better and doesn’t break apart so easily. You do want some squish. Honda bond doesn’t break off inside. Also it’s crappy engine design and the edges should be radiused to on covers to add more surface area to stick. Just look at inside if Honda oil pan and timing covers. I seen the two engine halves and it was sharp edges.
I’ve been looking up to buying this car in the future but now I don’t really want to since this happens to the GR86/BRZ :(
Thank you so much for this video! Based on all of the reviews, and videos I've seen around this car, I have been seriously considering selling my 95 Miata, and trading in my AWD Mazda 3 premium to simplify my life, and have one car to do all the things I need and want from a vehicle. Just test drove a 2022 with 7,000 mi on it, and fell in love 🥰. Now doing research to determine if it's actually a smart and a mature decision. Frankly, this issue gives me serious pause. My Miata has 206,000 mi, and has never experienced a mechanical failure in spite of multiple track days, and two trips cross country. Previously I had a 91 Acura Integra, that I sold with 282,000 mi, again without a single mechanical failure in spite of the fact that I drive my cars like I stole them. Reliability is even more important to me than having a car that feels like a soulmate. The dealership is telling me they offer a 12-month bumper to bumper, and the full remaining factory warranty on the car, but given the story you shared, I'm not sure that's enough to assuage my concerns. Regardless, really appreciate your thoughtful and informative video signed-
Sitting on the fence 😬
There are dealerships that offer a lifetime powertrain warranty for free. I just bought my 2023 86 at MSRP today from a dealership like that. About to go pick it up in six hours (: I’ll post videos on my UA-cam about it
Bought my girlfriend a GR86 in January 2022. Has 11,000 miles on it. This is definitely a concern
holy how, what does she do to have that many miles in 8 months?!
I had a 2022 Neptune Blue 86. Totaled in May by a lady who ran the stop sign and hit my drivers side going about 40. Had about 7k miles into it. Toyota checked and 0 was found inside my engine or oil. Just ordered my 2023 prem 86 Turino blue. Curious if this residue is from stock or people adding after market parts?
Stock
Does this RTV issue count for the first gen 86/brz too? So far, my 18' model 86 with 56k miles on it has been doing well so far with basic maintenance and some occasional spirited drive and small track usage.
There was a bit of this issue on the first gen as well, but I don't believe it was to this extent. I haven't seen a photo of the 1st gen pickup with the same amounts of RTV as 2nd gen owners.
I dont get why toyota couldnt do a complete teardown of the FA24 motor in the subaru like they did the B58 for any faults & get those standards up to toyotas specs. They are already saving money by doing a joint partnership with subaru. Massive oversight & poor QC all around
With the demand for the car and how behind they were, I'm sure they just want to get the cars out of the factory as quickly as possible.
Toyota makes good cars, but in the end it's all about money and profits. But, it seems to me that Toyota and Subaru would save money doing a recall/inspection rather than replace a bunch of engines under warranty.
Even Toyota can make this mistake, ever think about that? Maybe Toyota approved the amount of RTV not knowing it was too much. Also, this isn't the exact same FA24 as the rest of the Subarus, the FA24D in the twins are the only ones with D-4S, aka Toyota's port and direct injection, the FA24F in the rest of the Subarus don't have this RTV issue, is direct injection only, with a turbo, and lower compression. This isn't just an engine Toyota bought from another company like the B58, they actually used their tech on it and somewhat co-developed.
how do we diagnose there is RTV issue?
The best way is to drop the oil pan and visually checking the oil pickup tube.
is there a metal gasket set available in the market?
Excellent video, now I understand this issue perfectly
Is it possible to replace RTV with traditional gaskets and if you can't, why?
You can, but you'd have to have them custom made as they're not mass produced and by the end it'll be very costly if you're replacing every single RTV seal.
Excellent video. I canceled my order on 2023 BRZ even though i luv the car. For current owners, i would suggest installing an oil pressure gauge to assist in monitoring pluggage and restrictions.
@Michael Benson
A pressure gauge is located after the oil filter and the oil pump. If there was a restriction on the pump suction the Pressure would drop from normal operating pressure, or if the pump was truly being starved, the pressure would drop below normal pressure and the pressure would swing for a particular rpm. If I remember correctly, the rule of thumb for oil pressure is 10 psig per 1000 rpm.
I think you jumped to conclusions too hastily based on possibly bad data. The RTV issue is very doubtfully the root cause of the actual failures. If you don't track your Toyobaru you can overfill by up to 1 liter and unless you have a very high speed setup that throws tons of G forces, that has been demonstrated to be effective at mitigating the pressure loss experienced during high-G turns. Keep your PCV valve serviced and keep your oil topped off with 5w-20/30. It will be fine.
should i also be conserned of this, when im planning on getting a 2013 gt86, that had its engine rebuilt, after the old owner didnt put enough oil in it ?
Shouldn't be that big of a concern.
Great video, Kevin! Helpful and informative. I see you mentioned the RTV issue won't affect the majority of drivers, are you more so referring to us drivers who aren't planning on tracking/autocrossing the car? I got my GR86 about 3 months ago, and im barely at 600 miles. I've seen most people drop their oil pans and check their pickups anywhere between 4k-8k miles. At what mileage intervals should I finally start checking? If I'm just dailying it, at what point in time should I actually be worried about the pick up being clogged up?
I'm referring to owners in general. Yes, tracking and autocrossing the car can increase the potential of failures (not just referring to RTV failures), but unless you have an absurd amount of RTV stuck in their, the pickup can still supply oil to the engine. As for when to drop the oil pan if you want to check, no one can tell you when you should do it. There have been cars with 500 miles to cars with over 10k miles that have done it and found RTV in the pickup, but there have also been cars that have been driving for thousands of miles with no issues whatsoever as well. Just drive the car. If you're that worried talk to your dealership.
Fudge, that means this problem can be in the GR Corolla as well.....