my 2022 BRZ blew at 23k miles and the dealership kept my car for 9 months. originally they said they’d repair under warranty due to rtv blocking my oil pick up, but last minute they decided to deny warranty repair and began to charge me 13k for new motor. My dealership was sketchy and continued to deny the existence of any RTV although they previously found enough RTV blocking. Subaru dealership manager also said i was driving the car like a “jackass” and i should cough up the 13k. needless to say, they didn’t know I was one step ahead of them and now they’re the ones losing on this case now that i got it escalated
also to the lot of people who own the second gen cars say rtv shouldn’t cause any engine failures, this is for you. These cars inherently lose oil pressure on right corners, now imagine the oil pickup being blocked by huge chunks of RTV. there’s now two factors that drastically affect the car’s oil pressure
@@sittingoneternity This is an capitalistic issue, oil pan baffles have existed for a looong time... too cheap to put them in stock oil pans, VW is the same way even with the TSi's.
@@southpark159753 watch 900brz’s videos on the performance brought with oil pans on these second gens. Little to no improvement shown on oil pressure drops with numerous oil pans
@@southpark159753oil pan baffles have been tested and do almost nothing to help. The problem is oil pooling on the left side head and not returning to sump because of the design of the oil system. Left head gets priority oiling, then right head, then the main bearings. This is why the VB WRX has an oil scavenge pump on the offending head.
Same. I really want one of these cars for a track toy but (regardless of how much people are sticking their heads in the sand) this doesn't seem to be an "if" issue, but more of a "when" issue. ....and "when" is basically immediately.
In all my dealer training courses, and any suits I’ve ever talked to, no one ever likes to answer the question of “why do techs have to take the L for fixing something that the car company screwed up when they made the car?” 😅 I’ve been a Porsche dealer tech for 6 years, even the luxury car manufacturers are terrible with recalls and warranty time
I worked at a Benz dealer during the great 08 recession and even as an apprectice getting paid hourly, I saw have recall/warranty time really hurt technicians under the flat rate system
yup I worked for Jag/LR for 2 years.. 75% (at that time) was all electrical .. software errors and recalls and updates for updates to fix the original oe software. If i update the infotainment system it screwed up the touch screen. I install an new update to fix that update error THAT update screwed up radio.... etc.... and DON'T GET ME STARTED ON SQUEEKS AND RATTLES .... dear lord the QC for Jag/LR is bad..
@@steve8803 100% most dealerships charp customer pay jobs warranty time (x) 1.2-2%... and 80% of the time you will never ever beat warranty time UNLESS you have done the job numerous times, even then it can be difficult . I JUST did a warrany EPS rack that pays 4.5hrs including alignment. it took me roughly 6 ( on a 2023) and i have never done it before... NOW i know and next time I should be able to within margin of that warranty time..
Maybe here is the disconnect. The DEALERSHIP is making $250/hr, the actual technican may only be making $17/hr on a vehicle under warrenty (half his wage or less). At that wage, it is a smarter idea to work at In-n-out burger. This is an issue of how techicans get paid. I didnt spend 20 years in the field, 100k on tools, and 10,000 hours of education to get paid the same as a fast food employee. @@steve8803
The Rtv recall would essentially be dropping the pan, cleaning rtv out of the pickup and reinstalling the pan, if a Subaru/toyota tech can’t do that then they should find another line of work.
So about that… I took my 2024 GR86 to Toyota to have the Purge Evap Valve replaced under warranty. It would not take gas. Got the car back a week later and even though it now took gas - I got a P0455 Code for Large Evap Leak. The ‘Tech’ who did the job installed the connecters upside down so the purge valve was not even working causing a strong fuel vapor smell inside the car. Dealer techs are idiots and I don’t know how they get those jobs.
I don’t think most people realize how the dealership is designed to work against itself, and “getting rid of the dealership model” isn’t going to fix it because the problems start with the manufacturer.
Going back a bit (2008 to be exact) when I worked for a local Honda dealership, we were told engineers were going to come to the rust belt states to gauge how much rust accumulation impacts technician labor times. I was super happy to hear it, but uh... yeah, they never came. Doesn't take a genius to figure out why. To be frank, it doesn't take an engineer to understand that rust inhibits technician work. The idea that they were going to do some controlled studies was great. Taking a bunch of 2002s, then 2003s, and so on until they reached back to current, and comparing the amount of rust degradation was occurring over the years would be a game changer for techs in this region. A true justification, backed by analytics and science, for what we would call "extraction time." My service writers understood that occasionally, it was necessary, and they'd call the customer and explain in detail why. 90% of the time, we'd get the go-ahead. There's a myriad of reasons beyond the flat-rate system for the decline in the automotive technician field. To be honest, back then I'd flag on average 65 - 70 hours in a 40 hour work week. Even doing some warranty work. So flat-rate isn't really the core issue, but has become more detrimental than beneficial in this new world of automotive repair. If I had to pick an ultimate culprit for the current state of affairs, it would the promotion of lease programs tied to 2 year "free maintenance" packages. This ish killed it for dealership technicians. Is it any wonder why? Cars, up until fairly recently (i.e. since the economy went to Hell in a handbag), have been treated as disposable. Switching up every 2 - 3 years often will eliminate the need for brake jobs, tires, suspension work, timing belts (which are rare in new vehicles), plugs, you know, all the jobs that pay flat-rate techs well. Then you couple the "free maintenance" which always pays the tech less for the same shit (LOF, rotation, and MPI), we're getting the shortest end of the damn stick. Heck, occasionally we're getting beat with it these days. Then, you take into account those that can't afford the lease lifestyle, buy used and do the bare minimum to keep their cars functional (if anyone has ever been over to "Just Rolled In," you know functional is becoming more rare as time marches on). Where does that leave technicians? Screwed. That's where. We're screwed. Which is why I don't work professionally anymore. It's just not worth it at most shops.
@@CMAutohaus If many people and BRZ owners noted this excess RTV issue to cause the oil tube blockage, why the dealership no TSB or recall on it? Can all BRZ owners write a letter to Toyota or Subaru Canada to advise to fix this issue?
I work at a Subi dealer as parts. I know some of the guys do it with a scarper, but some are just haul ass and get it done quick. Now when I was at Ford, I was an lube tech, but was given all the damn 6.0 diesels. I never cut corners, but the temptation to do so was there when changing brakes. After that I said screw that, I'm gonna do parts. And I didn't even know you were in the Bay Area. Good to know you're local. I'm glad you're actually doing the things the right way.
yeah, in ideal world you go to a specialist. I'm lucky in the fact that my Subaru dealer is actually decent (def better than the average mechanic), but then we also have a very highly reputable Subaru specialist mechanic (and tuner) in the same city. So I'm basically just using the Subaru dealer to do oil changes and inspections until my warranty expires, I'll then start taking it to the specialist and stay with him for the rest of the cars life and do all / any major services and repairs with him (which the car might need once it gets older). I've def had my fair share of terrible mechanics over the years on my old cars though. Like literally Monty python type embarrassing levels of incompetence. I even had 3 shops all tell me they couldn't fix my brake tail light, since it was electrical / wiring problems. I had the sole working brake tail light then go dead, so bought the 2 pack of bulbs, and thought why not just replace the broken tailight bulb while I'm at it (not expecting it to work) and it worked. Turns out, 3 different mechanics couldn't even change a light bulb. I also had a mechanic try and fix 1 code error, and when I got the car back in had multiple code errors, he just made it worse. My uncle has even more epic stories, but I won't write a novel, so will finish here lol.
Bay Area is so lucky. We have an 86 specialist local to us. Feel sorry for other areas! Thanks for everything you do Ezekiel. 😊 Also, could you do a video on what you suggest we should do for track day prep?
Thank you for the kind words! The RTV issue is more more track/canyon people, but the overarching issue is how Toyota has been dealing with GR86 warrenty cases.
I asked about the RTV issue when I was at my dealership a couple weeks ago and the guy was a little aggravated and said they could drop the oil pan for about $500. First he asked me if I was seeing any issues and then he went into a rant about how it’s being overblown and this is why he hates the internet. He said he’s only seeing it with re-sealed vehicles and not from the factory. This is a limited car so I doubt he’s seeing many reseals. I told him I’ve been seeing a lot of videos about it and then he brings up the gr86 and says the issue is overblown because there’s 2 cars sharing the same engine. Based on sales figures I’ve seen they’re not selling a huge number of these cars each month. So you have a pretty limited car and all these people are seeing this problem, I don’t think it’s overblown. I feel like he gave me a bs response but I fully expected that from a dealership. I didn’t have him do anything but at some point I will have it done if I can find a good shop to do it.
"pretty limited car and all these people are seeing this problem" Bingo. You should link our RTV Clean up playlist to the dealer ua-cam.com/play/PLWD_nkVFKkaPRHm0rUOf26ZGqDmHHKnwX.html
same here, the finance manager last night got a little frustrated because i asked if the rtv issue (if it were to occur) was covered by their free 2yr warranty. LMAOOO, i’ll most likely drop the oil pan and replace it myself because these toyota dealerships are not so reassuring.
This is the exact reason why I quit my apprenticeship and went back to school. That and up charging customers things they don't need. Also you are treated like trash from the service manager.
Sales department, Service manager, service advisors all have treated technicians like trash in my experience DESPITE most techs Ive worked with being the highest educated and most professional in the dealership.
Hmm, here in the UK Dealership Mechanics are salaried. approx 30-35K pounds per year. No doubt the dealership gets a flat rate for the warranty jobs so there might be some pressure they can exert to get the job done quicker but I hope it is a better system than what it appears to be on the other side of the pond.
happy to report that my 10/23 production 23 BRZ has ZERO RTV in the sump or pickup, and the RTV job was excellent. perfect even sealing and i struggled to apply it as cleanly as it was, i almost regret even opening it up but at least i know. wonder if they made some very recent changes to procedure? either way, has there even been a single engine failure based on RTV clogging? AFAIK there hasnt, they have all been due to people running them hard on track, and oil starving them with either G-forces, low oil level, or mechanical overrev by downshifting a bit overzealously. i personally know for a fact a very popular youtuber with engine failure who runs the nurburgring in his GR86, ran his engine low on oil, and mechanically kissed 8k + rpm on many downshifts. edit: and another well known youtuber with a dead motor confirmed low oil level at time of failure too. lot of people not understanding how to take care of a high revving high compression engine with lots of blowby.
That's crazy worked at a dealership(Mitsu) for 5 years. Techs loved warranty jobs. They paid just about what all data would have. I think it was 9-11hrs for an awd trans. We had good techs that could have it out and in less than 7hrs. Not cutting corners but by doing all the jobs because he was good at it because the jobs paid well. I was in parts they paid us 169% of our cost for parts and overnight fee. I thought that was a good lay out for warranty jobs.
Definitely. I worked for them for 2 years and warranty was pretty good. Like with everything, sucks at first but once you get used to it, its pretty good. When the 2022 Outlanders had the fuel pump recall, after the 4th one, i could knock em out in 45 minutes taking my time. 20 if i was in a rush. I work at Hyundai now and warranty is ABYSMAL
I put transmissions pan RTV on my own. Scrape, then wirewheel with goo gone, replace filter, clean magnets. Brake clean at the end before applying RTV and wait 30 mins for it to get tacky.
Yeah... I remember taking our 05 OUTBACK XT in for the airbag recall. The dealership cracked our dask, the center A/C vent, and the center console grommets... and gave it back in that condition. The dealership fought replacing the parts they broke. It took me 2 weeks to get in contact with the regional rep. SUBARU covered the dash, but not the other parts. Forget about dealerships. Find a local SUBARU fanatic and take to them. . Had to do the same for my 06 (B6) VW PASSAT. Just find a VW fanatic. EVEN if you have to drive 60 miles, they are 1000x better mechanics.
I completely understand. I took my 2022 brz for a timing cover oil leak. 2 days after the repair the engine blew up. Apparently too much rtv was used and fell and blocked the oil pickup. Subaru will put a new engine in but i am worried about the quality of their work. Any recommendations?
LOL I bought and installed a longblock into 900BRZ's car. You should have gotten everything in writing and on an RO otherwise their words are worthless@@diiaa366
Just pulled the pan on my WRX. It was glued on so bad I ended up destroying the pan. There were strings of RTV working the way to the strainer and a few pieces of RTV in the strainer. I will be using a pan gasket with the new IAG pan kit with pickup.
I worked at a dealership for 5 years and I totally agree on what you said. I have a special request. I saw you old videos about brz 4th gear issue. Do you think you can do a newer version with what you learn since you published the old one. Like the ultimate guide of what to know about brz/frs/gt86 transmission. Thanks 🚗💥💨🔥
My experience with SOA was not good. I purchased a new WRX in 2015. On and off I was seeing low oil pressure lights. Brought it in multiple times, no problem found. 5,200 miles it grenades at 1am coming home from a new years party. Thinking well this is terrible but it's under warranty. Car got towed to Subaru where it sat for 5 weeks. I get a call from the service writer saying it needs a new engine and they are refusing warranty. Their reason, car must have been driven with low oil. Hold on.... this is exactly what I brought it in multiple times for. "we have no record of this just 21 point inspections and complimentary car washes" I reached out to SOA thinking this is nuts. They stand by the dealer and tell me a new FA would be 18k and BTW they have voided the remaining of the warranty. Took the car home, got a motor from a wrecked WRX in FL, traded it in. Never purchasing another Subaru product.
your receipts show oil changes if they were being done. Didn't you have a record of that? I get my service report and it literally shows everything done, including new oil, oil filter, etc etc. Maybe you were driving on low oil. I don't know what happened. I'm just intrigued by your story. But if they can defend that to deny warranty, it probably is what happened. Unless that dealer was extremely shady.
The selling dealer did the first oil change at 3k and it blew up before the second one was due. The car was towed to a different Subaru dealer for the engine since it was closer. From the get go I knew they were looking to fight it. It sat there for 3 weeks before they even took it "apart". and by that all they did was pull the intake, exhaust and fuel rails. It's like once they saw the engine costs they said hell no and looked for anything. SOA backed them up saying that I should have been checking my oil at every fill up per the manual and since I was a certified technician I should know better. The dealer it was towed to was part of the auto group I left and they sent them my ASE Certs and GM training records... that really made me mad. I brought that car back for the oil pressure light, they said no problem found. Long story short I pulled the motor, removed the pan and lo and behold 2 large blobs of rtv on the oil pump pickup! This was way before it was a concern with the FA. I sent the pics to SOA and they said it was due to the engine failure and not the cause. At that point I said screw it, installed the motor and traded it in. Took a bath on the car but since they voided the warranty and I was paying 40 a day for a rental I couldn't afford to keep dragging it out. After working for and being on the receiving end of terrible dealerships I understand why people are so skeptical of dealerships. @@Jez4prez1
@@MrMike-fn4hi yeah, that sucks. Sorry to hear that. Interesting story so thanks for taking to time to write it out and tell me also. Hope all is good now, mate.
@@MrMike-fn4hi So the excessive RTV issues extend to the 15-21 wrx as well? I have a 2019 I got with 6k miles and have been fighting with the dealer because it got a CEL (P0420) that they dont want to cover under warranty to fix. Now I'm worried about this RTV issue as well...
They have to. As long as you're on a stock exhaust. That's a catalyst efficiency code. 95% cat 5% downstream O2 sensor. You would have to have a massive pre cat leak and you would absolutely hear it for it to be a leak. I never recommend Subaru's to people even though they are incredibly popular up here in New England. So many companies offer AWD/4WD no real reason to buy a Subaru anymore. @@Lagcams
One of the best independent mechanics I found would always quote me the "book time", but it was never that much because he'd charge his regulars how much time it actually took. He usually did pretty good work and would give you a summary of any issues he had, but still only charged how much time it took him.
Wait why would you not use a dremel with a wire wheel to get the old rtv off? Is the upper pan aluminum and not steel? You could use a brass wire wheel on aluminum
hey do techs have incentive to do the scheduled services properly at least? i feel like things like "lubricate latches" as described in the owners manual probably aren't being done.
Nope. Minor services such as the "scheduled services" are usually done by the lube techs which means they are expected to rush the car out as fast as possible A good clue is when items that dont exist on the car get checked "OK" such as power steering fluid and fuel filter condition Typcially we see coolant never topped off (empty overflow) and overfilled engine oil from cars that were serviced by the dealer
So many similarities with auto technicians and truck drivers. I don’t get paid hourly, or by the mile. I get paid per the ton. I load my tanker at the terminal, drive it to its destination, and and hook the hoses up to unload it, check the customers tank levels, make sure the antistrip machines running, open the valves, start the pumps, etc. Doesn’t matter if it’s raining, storming, snowing, or balls ass hot outside, I get paid by the ton. Over the road drivers don’t typically have to unload/load freight, but if they’re paid by the mile and not by the hour, they get paid very little for sitting at the docks for literally hours upon hours, sometimes days in some cases. Mind you, the regulated hours of service per week are only 72. 11 hours driving, 14 hours a day total “on duty not driving”, with a 10 hour mandatory break after you’ve exhausted those hours of service. Most trucking companies want you to go off duty at the dock, so you don’t get a full break. Long winded I get it, but doing things for free? I think we both have something in common.
Can confirm the shitty pay scale at dealerships. Warranty work is a *BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPING* joke. Why if I worked on cars other than for friends and myself now I would open my own shop and pay the techs how it should be.
I caught my Subaru dealer claiming they did a brake and clutch fluid flush came to find out they didn’t they just vacuumed out the reservoir fluid and filled it back up. Caught them on my security camera that I had in the car
900-1200 to drop a pan and re seal it is beyond nuts. We charge like 300 for the same job. Ive done it a few times on the newer brz cars, 6/8 times ive done it, found the pickup tube almost packed with silicone.
Hey, great video, and I've some of your other videos so I'm glad that you left such a toxic environment to open your own place. I do have one question, I'm not sure you can answer, but I'm in the process of buying the new 2024 Crosstrek Wilderness and wondering if this RTV sealant will be an issue for me as well? I heard that the 2nd gen Crosstreks this was an issue but the it doesn't really show itself until about 200-250k miles and that would be the single most expensive repair if you keep your vehicle that long. Any advice before making this big purchase I'd appreciate
Around how many miles would you recommend cleaning out the oil pickup tube? Is it ever too soon? I am a new gr86 owner with less than 1K miles still and plan on using it for street and daily driving only. Would love to bring my car to you at some point in the future!
I emailed Toyota for my GR86 And they told as long as the oil light INS’T blinking I am ok ??? They ask me if I am willing to pay $400,00 dls for cleaning o removing the oil pan !!!
The oil light is a "dummy" on/off lamp. It will NOT show if the car has an oil pressure issue. If there is only 1-2qts of oil total in the engine, the light still will not turn on.
But if you as a tech did a crappy job the first time and the customer brings back the car for the same issue. What happens then? Does the tech have to redo the job. Will he get paid? On a returned job?
The tech should have to redo the job for free on a returned job. The issue is that what if he is not there that day or is a kiss ass? Then another tech does his return job for free
That's why you see folks hit lugs with torque sticks. "close enough is good enough". What I can't do myself, I take to shops that just bill by the job and treat the techs well. Don't have a problem paying for the techs work.
No one has answered if there are any long term effects to RTV blocking the oil strainer such a long term oil aeration or rtv making it past the strainer Daily driving should* be fine, but at minimum I recommend an RTV inspection at 1,000 and 6,000 miles for our customers We've found surprises before such as strings of RTV in the oil or an oil filter full of metal at 1000 miles.
So I'm one of the early owners of a gr86. My dealership was able to drop the pan and clean up the rtv probono, free of charge. Should I be concerned and what should I do to have some reassurance?
ua-cam.com/video/43BQEbKQhBI/v-deo.html We recommend a repair (or not) based on our findings during this test. If you are still pulling RTV out of your old oil on the 2nd or 3rd oil change, you probably have an issue.
Shop labor rates here in the Bay Area is $200 - 300/hr. Do the hourly math. Keep in mind $100k /yr income here puts your household as "low income." Perspective based on geography.
What about when it takes half as long as the hours. That's free time. I guess that doesn't happen often. I think the whole procedure should be video recorded that way the customer can review what's done. Along with anybody else. When you go to a dealer you're spending extra money thinking that you're getting a better job but in actuality it may be damaging your vehicle.
I think the even bigger issue is that the public has completely lost trust in car dealerships. And instead of trying to find the specific issues that caused the lack of trust, dealers have customers fill out BS customer service surveys for KPI
Every car person should understand: The dealer DOES NOT CARE about extending the life of your vehicle! Their main goal is to sell cars, and the service center is just a supplement to that. Take your car to an INDEPENDENT SHOP because their life blood & main service is to FIX YOUR CAR PROPERLY and keep you on the road. I feel for all these new car buyers that get suckered at the stealerships, and given the run-around by service advisors (who are basically just salesman/publicity figures) They assume they'll get good treatment after buying a car instead of being sold more garbage or neglected aftercare of their car, even if it wrecks it.
It won't do you any good. The issue isn't the RTV from the pan, oil slushing around in the pan doesn't have the force to rip RTV off and RTV doesn't just fall off on it's own .it's the RTV from everywhere else, like the timing cover and the crank case. Imo more likely that it's all from the crank case where RTV seals oil galleries, cause that's the only place oil will build enough pressure to rip off obstructing RTV.
I haven't seen any any issues yet with my GR86 on this issue. Makes me scared when I will see it. I don't see anything on my dipstick at the moment just yet. Makes me nervous.
GR Corolla has more common issues on track than the 86, plus long term also has far more complex failure points. Completely different driving experiences anyway.
@@AnytimePaintingCoGo browse the forums & watch SavageGeese’s video. Tons more problem-free track time with GR86s than GR Corollas. All well-documented. Neither are problem-free, but I’m not making this up.
@@AnytimePaintingCoyour car is awesome, don’t get me wrong. I’d love one for a daily if I needed AWD. But believing they are issue-free with heat management is a dangerous game.
Mechanics have to fix older and newer cars that have completely different designs when it comes to the nooks and crannies. Sometimes there aren't the right tools available which are optimized to fix new problems. There is a huge misconception that time spent on each car getting fixed should be consistent because they have the same platform architecture or transmission/engine combo. It would be ideal for maintenance to be a part of product development to promote longevity and reliability, but that would drive the cost of a car up 😂😂
Why should you do the job correctly? Are you kidding me? Probably because the customer paid 10s of thousands of dollars for a vehicle and they deserve it. You think? Why should a carpenter build your home correctly? ...... when if they half ass it they get paid the same amount in half of the time.. C'mon! The customer shouldn't have to suffer for your pay grievance. You take up your pay grievance with those responsible. But in the mean time, always, ALWAYS take pride in any work you stamp your name on. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right! Your mind has been warped over the years by negative, scorned and depressed co workers. They don't give AF about the customer. But, does that mean you shouldn't? The customer should never, ever have to suffer because of issues with pay. Especially when they are dishing out $200/hour, or more!!! Customers pay their fair share!!!!! You talk about how "everybody wins" except for you. No! "everybody wins" except the customer when you half ass your work. I would NEVER leave my vehicle with you. I do not doubt your skill and ability, I bet you are fantastic... when you want to be. But your mindset is ridiculous. If I ask for a service and am given a price that's agreed to, I expect to get what I paid for. If the end "technician" doesn't think it is worth his time to take pride in the work he stamps his name on, he shouldn't do it to begin with. Pass it off to somebody else. And if nobody is willing to do the job with honor and pride, let the customer know so they can find a more honest shop. This is such a ridiculous mindset and is exactly the stereotype in my mind when I think of mechanics. Such dishonesty. You've confirmed how shady you are. That's on YOU.
I found this article and your comment right on time - this is an industry wide problem www.thedrive.com/news/ford-is-still-trying-to-clean-up-takata-airbag-repairs-that-dealers-botched
He's not talking about HIS mindset. He's talking about the mindset of an average technician who's getting screwed by the flat rate system. The system incentivizes fast, poor work. If people are constantly getting screwed by their pay structure and dealership, they're going to cut corners. That's human nature. This whole honor system "pride" mindset you think should exist can't last under those conditions.
This video is terrifying. How can I expect the dealer to do anything correctly? I have 2.5 years of free maintenance. How do I know they’re actually doing it?
Bingo. At minimum I would have a 3rd party verify the oil and coolant levels are correct after every service. Basic. I know. But dealers cant even get that right.
@@CMAutohaus I will certainly be doing that. I’ll be doing the first oil change on my WRX after break in. But I still want to get my free oil changes at the 6000 mile intervals. I guess I’ll mark the oil filter somehow to make sure it’s replaced and of course check the oil level. How do I know they’ll do the no start crank to get the oil circulated before starting the first time? I’m gonna be picky about this because I want my car to last.
@@ViaticalTree "How do I know they’ll do the no start crank to get the oil circulated before starting the first time?" 100% they are NOT going to do this. Flat Rate pay at the dealership means get the work out as fast as possible. Basic services like oil changes go to the entry level, least experienced.
@@CMAutohaus lol wonderful. It takes a whole extra 10 seconds. I’ll ask them to do it and maybe there’s a slight chance they will. Thanks for the replies.
I’m reaching here, but would you happen to know if anyone does an RTV inspection similar to what you do on Oahu? Or even just someone out here trustable to check this out? I have a 2023 GR86 and want to get it looked at.
As a customer where I have problem is to pay same $/hr let say for rotor removal vs highly specialized job like valve adjustment. Not sure if there is a solution for it.
Just bought a new vehicle and it absolutely frightens me that the most important person I'm entrusting my very expensive recent purchase to gets treated like ass. I'd gladly request the same technician every time and even pay a tip to ensure I dont get screwed. Has that ever been a thing in your career?
But are 2024 cars still having RTV issues? It would be crazy they haven't taken any action at least to solve that issue. The right corner low pressure is another design flaw harder to resolve different than rhe solution provided in thia channel. But I wonder if they are still putting lot of RTV tonseal the engines
Good job on covering this stupidity from Subaru - I grew up with Subarus long ago - they were always solid no complaints - was trained on a MANUAL 4 SPEED silver Subaru snow wagon 4WD with the white spoke cool wheels - major screwup by current Subaru ...AND.....WHY is Subaru not manning up on this issue - this issue is DESTROYING SUBARU'S REPUTATION, ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF HONESTY TO CUSTOMERS - VERY ANTI-JAPANESE BEHAVIOR. Subaru is practicing 'WE DON'T CARE ABOUT OUR CUSTOMERS' - the OPPOSITE OF JAPANESE PHILOSOPHY. I hope Subaru gets it's REAR HANDED TO IT SOONER THAN LATER. ALSO - RTV long term - why has Subaru put all their eggs into the one basket of RTV for engine sealing VERSUS high quality gaskets ?? Subaru's lack of action on this topic is becoming a tsunami
Find a local Subaru specialist shop that also does performance work. Do your 15k, 30k, 60k service with them. Dealer lube techs will bypass the MPI leave you assed out if you are out of warranty for a repair that should have been caught early on during an MPI
Nothing automotive. I'd recommend HVAC, plumbing, or electrical. Look around locally for a trade school or community college. Just food for thought, 2 of the weathiest people I know are just "plumbers" including my friend and customer @rikosway who just shipped his cars to Japan for this past Tokyo Auto Salon@@albetherechillin
![BRZ & GR86 Oil Starvation Even In Stock Form - [2024 Current State Technical Discussion]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4CidHbClNHY/mqdefault.jpg)
my 2022 BRZ blew at 23k miles and the dealership kept my car for 9 months. originally they said they’d repair under warranty due to rtv blocking my oil pick up, but last minute they decided to deny warranty repair and began to charge me 13k for new motor. My dealership was sketchy and continued to deny the existence of any RTV although they previously found enough RTV blocking. Subaru dealership manager also said i was driving the car like a “jackass” and i should cough up the 13k. needless to say, they didn’t know I was one step ahead of them and now they’re the ones losing on this case now that i got it escalated
also to the lot of people who own the second gen cars say rtv shouldn’t cause any engine failures, this is for you. These cars inherently lose oil pressure on right corners, now imagine the oil pickup being blocked by huge chunks of RTV. there’s now two factors that drastically affect the car’s oil pressure
Unfortunaty in the Bay Area, step one is hiring a lawyer in an engine failure case with Toyota.
@@sittingoneternity This is an capitalistic issue, oil pan baffles have existed for a looong time... too cheap to put them in stock oil pans, VW is the same way even with the TSi's.
@@southpark159753 watch 900brz’s videos on the performance brought with oil pans on these second gens. Little to no improvement shown on oil pressure drops with numerous oil pans
@@southpark159753oil pan baffles have been tested and do almost nothing to help. The problem is oil pooling on the left side head and not returning to sump because of the design of the oil system. Left head gets priority oiling, then right head, then the main bearings. This is why the VB WRX has an oil scavenge pump on the offending head.
This is literally the only thing keeping me from buying this car....I shouldn't have to become an engineer and a lawyer to buy a fucking car
Its what makes a Subaru...A Subaru!
Same. I really want one of these cars for a track toy but (regardless of how much people are sticking their heads in the sand) this doesn't seem to be an "if" issue, but more of a "when" issue. ....and "when" is basically immediately.
@@CMAutohaus 😬
In all my dealer training courses, and any suits I’ve ever talked to, no one ever likes to answer the question of “why do techs have to take the L for fixing something that the car company screwed up when they made the car?” 😅
I’ve been a Porsche dealer tech for 6 years, even the luxury car manufacturers are terrible with recalls and warranty time
I worked at a Benz dealer during the great 08 recession and even as an apprectice getting paid hourly, I saw have recall/warranty time really hurt technicians under the flat rate system
yup I worked for Jag/LR for 2 years.. 75% (at that time) was all electrical .. software errors and recalls and updates for updates to fix the original oe software. If i update the infotainment system it screwed up the touch screen. I install an new update to fix that update error THAT update screwed up radio.... etc.... and DON'T GET ME STARTED ON SQUEEKS AND RATTLES .... dear lord the QC for Jag/LR is bad..
@airstrings when customers are paying $250/hour, you think it's tech's taking the "L'" for half assed work?
@@steve8803 100% most dealerships charp customer pay jobs warranty time (x) 1.2-2%... and 80% of the time you will never ever beat warranty time UNLESS you have done the job numerous times, even then it can be difficult . I JUST did a warrany EPS rack that pays 4.5hrs including alignment. it took me roughly 6 ( on a 2023) and i have never done it before... NOW i know and next time I should be able to within margin of that warranty time..
Maybe here is the disconnect. The DEALERSHIP is making $250/hr, the actual technican may only be making $17/hr on a vehicle under warrenty (half his wage or less). At that wage, it is a smarter idea to work at In-n-out burger. This is an issue of how techicans get paid.
I didnt spend 20 years in the field, 100k on tools, and 10,000 hours of education to get paid the same as a fast food employee.
@@steve8803
The Rtv recall would essentially be dropping the pan, cleaning rtv out of the pickup and reinstalling the pan, if a Subaru/toyota tech can’t do that then they should find another line of work.
It's not that they can't do it, it's they aren't being paid properly to do it.
So about that… I took my 2024 GR86 to Toyota to have the Purge Evap Valve replaced under warranty. It would not take gas.
Got the car back a week later and even though it now took gas - I got a P0455 Code for Large Evap Leak.
The ‘Tech’ who did the job installed the connecters upside down so the purge valve was not even working causing a strong fuel vapor smell inside the car.
Dealer techs are idiots and I don’t know how they get those jobs.
I don’t think most people realize how the dealership is designed to work against itself, and “getting rid of the dealership model” isn’t going to fix it because the problems start with the manufacturer.
Going back a bit (2008 to be exact) when I worked for a local Honda dealership, we were told engineers were going to come to the rust belt states to gauge how much rust accumulation impacts technician labor times. I was super happy to hear it, but uh... yeah, they never came. Doesn't take a genius to figure out why. To be frank, it doesn't take an engineer to understand that rust inhibits technician work.
The idea that they were going to do some controlled studies was great. Taking a bunch of 2002s, then 2003s, and so on until they reached back to current, and comparing the amount of rust degradation was occurring over the years would be a game changer for techs in this region. A true justification, backed by analytics and science, for what we would call "extraction time."
My service writers understood that occasionally, it was necessary, and they'd call the customer and explain in detail why. 90% of the time, we'd get the go-ahead. There's a myriad of reasons beyond the flat-rate system for the decline in the automotive technician field. To be honest, back then I'd flag on average 65 - 70 hours in a 40 hour work week. Even doing some warranty work. So flat-rate isn't really the core issue, but has become more detrimental than beneficial in this new world of automotive repair.
If I had to pick an ultimate culprit for the current state of affairs, it would the promotion of lease programs tied to 2 year "free maintenance" packages. This ish killed it for dealership technicians. Is it any wonder why? Cars, up until fairly recently (i.e. since the economy went to Hell in a handbag), have been treated as disposable. Switching up every 2 - 3 years often will eliminate the need for brake jobs, tires, suspension work, timing belts (which are rare in new vehicles), plugs, you know, all the jobs that pay flat-rate techs well.
Then you couple the "free maintenance" which always pays the tech less for the same shit (LOF, rotation, and MPI), we're getting the shortest end of the damn stick. Heck, occasionally we're getting beat with it these days. Then, you take into account those that can't afford the lease lifestyle, buy used and do the bare minimum to keep their cars functional (if anyone has ever been over to "Just Rolled In," you know functional is becoming more rare as time marches on). Where does that leave technicians? Screwed. That's where. We're screwed. Which is why I don't work professionally anymore. It's just not worth it at most shops.
After restoring my rust belt 2006 Forester, I'm of the opinion that road salt is a net negative for society in the long run.
I agree totally what you said as I am doing and facing same as you said from the dealership. Too much BS from the service advisor and service manager.
Its sad that even customers have to play the right "game" in order to get their vehicle serviced properly at the dealership
@@CMAutohaus If many people and BRZ owners noted this excess RTV issue to cause the oil tube blockage, why the dealership no TSB or recall on it? Can all BRZ owners write a letter to Toyota or Subaru Canada to advise to fix this issue?
I work at a Subi dealer as parts. I know some of the guys do it with a scarper, but some are just haul ass and get it done quick.
Now when I was at Ford, I was an lube tech, but was given all the damn 6.0 diesels. I never cut corners, but the temptation to do so was there when changing brakes. After that I said screw that, I'm gonna do parts.
And I didn't even know you were in the Bay Area. Good to know you're local. I'm glad you're actually doing the things the right way.
Man am I glad you are in the Bay Area!! 👍🏼 I will be definitely be coming to you
Thank you for the watch. I look forward to meeting!
Damn, makes me never want me to bring my car to a dealership and bring it to good people like you.
Thank you for the kind words!
yeah, in ideal world you go to a specialist. I'm lucky in the fact that my Subaru dealer is actually decent (def better than the average mechanic), but then we also have a very highly reputable Subaru specialist mechanic (and tuner) in the same city. So I'm basically just using the Subaru dealer to do oil changes and inspections until my warranty expires, I'll then start taking it to the specialist and stay with him for the rest of the cars life and do all / any major services and repairs with him (which the car might need once it gets older).
I've def had my fair share of terrible mechanics over the years on my old cars though. Like literally Monty python type embarrassing levels of incompetence. I even had 3 shops all tell me they couldn't fix my brake tail light, since it was electrical / wiring problems. I had the sole working brake tail light then go dead, so bought the 2 pack of bulbs, and thought why not just replace the broken tailight bulb while I'm at it (not expecting it to work) and it worked. Turns out, 3 different mechanics couldn't even change a light bulb. I also had a mechanic try and fix 1 code error, and when I got the car back in had multiple code errors, he just made it worse. My uncle has even more epic stories, but I won't write a novel, so will finish here lol.
Great video. Thank you. And congratulations for your good work.
Thank you for the watch and your kind words!
My mechanic! Hope You're having a good new year, sir!
Thanks! You as well!
Bay Area is so lucky. We have an 86 specialist local to us. Feel sorry for other areas! Thanks for everything you do Ezekiel. 😊
Also, could you do a video on what you suggest we should do for track day prep?
Thank you for the kind words. I'll put in a note for myself to make a track day prep video.
Not everyshop is as aducated, and passionate as you guys. i want on eof these but heavily thrown off at how i would manage the rtv issue
Thank you for the kind words! The RTV issue is more more track/canyon people, but the overarching issue is how Toyota has been dealing with GR86 warrenty cases.
This applies to pretty much every warranty job "dont like it, find another job"
Bingo
I asked about the RTV issue when I was at my dealership a couple weeks ago and the guy was a little aggravated and said they could drop the oil pan for about $500. First he asked me if I was seeing any issues and then he went into a rant about how it’s being overblown and this is why he hates the internet. He said he’s only seeing it with re-sealed vehicles and not from the factory. This is a limited car so I doubt he’s seeing many reseals. I told him I’ve been seeing a lot of videos about it and then he brings up the gr86 and says the issue is overblown because there’s 2 cars sharing the same engine. Based on sales figures I’ve seen they’re not selling a huge number of these cars each month. So you have a pretty limited car and all these people are seeing this problem, I don’t think it’s overblown. I feel like he gave me a bs response but I fully expected that from a dealership. I didn’t have him do anything but at some point I will have it done if I can find a good shop to do it.
"pretty limited car and all these people are seeing this problem" Bingo. You should link our RTV Clean up playlist to the dealer
ua-cam.com/play/PLWD_nkVFKkaPRHm0rUOf26ZGqDmHHKnwX.html
No he's tired of people coming in for issues that aren't causing a problem.
same here, the finance manager last night got a little frustrated because i asked if the rtv issue (if it were to occur) was covered by their free 2yr warranty. LMAOOO, i’ll most likely drop the oil pan and replace it myself because these toyota dealerships are not so reassuring.
Is none of this in the warranty?
This is the exact reason why I quit my apprenticeship and went back to school. That and up charging customers things they don't need. Also you are treated like trash from the service manager.
Sales department, Service manager, service advisors all have treated technicians like trash in my experience DESPITE most techs Ive worked with being the highest educated and most professional in the dealership.
Hmm, here in the UK Dealership Mechanics are salaried. approx 30-35K pounds per year. No doubt the dealership gets a flat rate for the warranty jobs so there might be some pressure they can exert to get the job done quicker but I hope it is a better system than what it appears to be on the other side of the pond.
Thanks for pulling back the curtain on dealership maintenance and recalls.
happy to report that my 10/23 production 23 BRZ has ZERO RTV in the sump or pickup, and the RTV job was excellent. perfect even sealing and i struggled to apply it as cleanly as it was, i almost regret even opening it up but at least i know. wonder if they made some very recent changes to procedure?
either way, has there even been a single engine failure based on RTV clogging? AFAIK there hasnt, they have all been due to people running them hard on track, and oil starving them with either G-forces, low oil level, or mechanical overrev by downshifting a bit overzealously.
i personally know for a fact a very popular youtuber with engine failure who runs the nurburgring in his GR86, ran his engine low on oil, and mechanically kissed 8k + rpm on many downshifts.
edit: and another well known youtuber with a dead motor confirmed low oil level at time of failure too. lot of people not understanding how to take care of a high revving high compression engine with lots of blowby.
how did you check?
Dropped the pan myself.
That's crazy worked at a dealership(Mitsu) for 5 years. Techs loved warranty jobs. They paid just about what all data would have. I think it was 9-11hrs for an awd trans. We had good techs that could have it out and in less than 7hrs. Not cutting corners but by doing all the jobs because he was good at it because the jobs paid well. I was in parts they paid us 169% of our cost for parts and overnight fee. I thought that was a good lay out for warranty jobs.
Definitely. I worked for them for 2 years and warranty was pretty good. Like with everything, sucks at first but once you get used to it, its pretty good. When the 2022 Outlanders had the fuel pump recall, after the 4th one, i could knock em out in 45 minutes taking my time. 20 if i was in a rush. I work at Hyundai now and warranty is ABYSMAL
Whenever there’s a compromised oil pick up tube replacement not cleaning is definitely A MUST
I put transmissions pan RTV on my own. Scrape, then wirewheel with goo gone, replace filter, clean magnets. Brake clean at the end before applying RTV and wait 30 mins for it to get tacky.
The dealership should lose money on warranty work not the Techs, as part of being a dealer with a car manufacture.
Yeah... I remember taking our 05 OUTBACK XT in for the airbag recall.
The dealership cracked our dask, the center A/C vent, and the center console grommets... and gave it back in that condition.
The dealership fought replacing the parts they broke.
It took me 2 weeks to get in contact with the regional rep.
SUBARU covered the dash, but not the other parts.
Forget about dealerships. Find a local SUBARU fanatic and take to them.
.
Had to do the same for my 06 (B6) VW PASSAT. Just find a VW fanatic.
EVEN if you have to drive 60 miles, they are 1000x better mechanics.
I completely understand. I took my 2022 brz for a timing cover oil leak. 2 days after the repair the engine blew up. Apparently too much rtv was used and fell and blocked the oil pickup. Subaru will put a new engine in but i am worried about the quality of their work. Any recommendations?
Wow I hope you have pictures and documentation. Did they install a short block or long block?
@@CMAutohaus i have everything written down but they never made a work order... they also said subaru only makes short blocks
LOL I bought and installed a longblock into 900BRZ's car. You should have gotten everything in writing and on an RO otherwise their words are worthless@@diiaa366
@@CMAutohaus damn okay thanks for the fyi
My Video on how to deal with warranty claims
ua-cam.com/video/L295NqXhPvs/v-deo.html@@diiaa366
As a customer, if i’m being charged $50 an hour, not to mention 100 or 200 the work better be flawless!!!
Just pulled the pan on my WRX. It was glued on so bad I ended up destroying the pan. There were strings of RTV working the way to the strainer and a few pieces of RTV in the strainer. I will be using a pan gasket with the new IAG pan kit with pickup.
I worked at a dealership for 5 years and I totally agree on what you said.
I have a special request. I saw you old videos about brz 4th gear issue. Do you think you can do a newer version with what you learn since you published the old one. Like the ultimate guide of what to know about brz/frs/gt86 transmission.
Thanks 🚗💥💨🔥
Thanks for the watch. Great suggestion!
I have that issue.
do you know the name of the video
@@jimbleam8824 ua-cam.com/video/d0QasDgxnso/v-deo.htmlsi=6QRrFUBR33WPKClV from 4 years ago
@@jimbleam8824her's the other one about synchos
ua-cam.com/video/b4r5Q6mjXyA/v-deo.htmlsi=ZmUPUJWjyLXPPVBF
My experience with SOA was not good. I purchased a new WRX in 2015. On and off I was seeing low oil pressure lights. Brought it in multiple times, no problem found. 5,200 miles it grenades at 1am coming home from a new years party. Thinking well this is terrible but it's under warranty. Car got towed to Subaru where it sat for 5 weeks. I get a call from the service writer saying it needs a new engine and they are refusing warranty. Their reason, car must have been driven with low oil. Hold on.... this is exactly what I brought it in multiple times for. "we have no record of this just 21 point inspections and complimentary car washes" I reached out to SOA thinking this is nuts. They stand by the dealer and tell me a new FA would be 18k and BTW they have voided the remaining of the warranty. Took the car home, got a motor from a wrecked WRX in FL, traded it in. Never purchasing another Subaru product.
your receipts show oil changes if they were being done. Didn't you have a record of that? I get my service report and it literally shows everything done, including new oil, oil filter, etc etc. Maybe you were driving on low oil. I don't know what happened. I'm just intrigued by your story. But if they can defend that to deny warranty, it probably is what happened. Unless that dealer was extremely shady.
The selling dealer did the first oil change at 3k and it blew up before the second one was due. The car was towed to a different Subaru dealer for the engine since it was closer. From the get go I knew they were looking to fight it. It sat there for 3 weeks before they even took it "apart". and by that all they did was pull the intake, exhaust and fuel rails. It's like once they saw the engine costs they said hell no and looked for anything. SOA backed them up saying that I should have been checking my oil at every fill up per the manual and since I was a certified technician I should know better. The dealer it was towed to was part of the auto group I left and they sent them my ASE Certs and GM training records... that really made me mad. I brought that car back for the oil pressure light, they said no problem found. Long story short I pulled the motor, removed the pan and lo and behold 2 large blobs of rtv on the oil pump pickup! This was way before it was a concern with the FA. I sent the pics to SOA and they said it was due to the engine failure and not the cause. At that point I said screw it, installed the motor and traded it in. Took a bath on the car but since they voided the warranty and I was paying 40 a day for a rental I couldn't afford to keep dragging it out. After working for and being on the receiving end of terrible dealerships I understand why people are so skeptical of dealerships. @@Jez4prez1
@@MrMike-fn4hi yeah, that sucks. Sorry to hear that. Interesting story so thanks for taking to time to write it out and tell me also. Hope all is good now, mate.
@@MrMike-fn4hi So the excessive RTV issues extend to the 15-21 wrx as well? I have a 2019 I got with 6k miles and have been fighting with the dealer because it got a CEL (P0420) that they dont want to cover under warranty to fix. Now I'm worried about this RTV issue as well...
They have to. As long as you're on a stock exhaust. That's a catalyst efficiency code. 95% cat 5% downstream O2 sensor. You would have to have a massive pre cat leak and you would absolutely hear it for it to be a leak. I never recommend Subaru's to people even though they are incredibly popular up here in New England. So many companies offer AWD/4WD no real reason to buy a Subaru anymore. @@Lagcams
My dealer is happy to do the job with me present in the workshop and taking photos.
One of the best independent mechanics I found would always quote me the "book time", but it was never that much because he'd charge his regulars how much time it actually took. He usually did pretty good work and would give you a summary of any issues he had, but still only charged how much time it took him.
lol what about when it took double the book time?
That was eyeopening!
Thanks for explaining how dealerships work. Good reminder to everybody not to bring their cars to them.
Glad to help
Appreciate all your work and info on this
I occasionally get ads on Instagram looking for Subaru techs. Bad treatment is finally coming back to bite them.
I have a GR86 and if I wanted to get my RTV check and redone, I'm going to a Subaru/boxer specialist, not Toyota lol
Solid advice Onii Chan!
Wait why would you not use a dremel with a wire wheel to get the old rtv off? Is the upper pan aluminum and not steel? You could use a brass wire wheel on aluminum
Wire wheel will spray old RTV all up inside the crankcase. Most FSMs actually state to use a plastic razor blade
hey do techs have incentive to do the scheduled services properly at least? i feel like things like "lubricate latches" as described in the owners manual probably aren't being done.
Nope. Minor services such as the "scheduled services" are usually done by the lube techs which means they are expected to rush the car out as fast as possible
A good clue is when items that dont exist on the car get checked "OK" such as power steering fluid and fuel filter condition
Typcially we see coolant never topped off (empty overflow) and overfilled engine oil from cars that were serviced by the dealer
So many similarities with auto technicians and truck drivers. I don’t get paid hourly, or by the mile. I get paid per the ton. I load my tanker at the terminal, drive it to its destination, and and hook the hoses up to unload it, check the customers tank levels, make sure the antistrip machines running, open the valves, start the pumps, etc. Doesn’t matter if it’s raining, storming, snowing, or balls ass hot outside, I get paid by the ton. Over the road drivers don’t typically have to unload/load freight, but if they’re paid by the mile and not by the hour, they get paid very little for sitting at the docks for literally hours upon hours, sometimes days in some cases. Mind you, the regulated hours of service per week are only 72. 11 hours driving, 14 hours a day total “on duty not driving”, with a 10 hour mandatory break after you’ve exhausted those hours of service. Most trucking companies want you to go off duty at the dock, so you don’t get a full break. Long winded I get it, but doing things for free? I think we both have something in common.
Can confirm the shitty pay scale at dealerships. Warranty work is a *BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPING* joke. Why if I worked on cars other than for friends and myself now I would open my own shop and pay the techs how it should be.
I caught my Subaru dealer claiming they did a brake and clutch fluid flush came to find out they didn’t they just vacuumed out the reservoir fluid and filled it back up. Caught them on my security camera that I had in the car
Do you have any tips on how to find a good independent shop like red flags to look out for?
Joining your local community is your best bet. Words spreads fast about bad shops
900-1200 to drop a pan and re seal it is beyond nuts. We charge like 300 for the same job. Ive done it a few times on the newer brz cars, 6/8 times ive done it, found the pickup tube almost packed with silicone.
is this an issue only on cars with esrly manufacturing dates or is this still an issue on the 2024 models?
Still a 2024 issue. Check out our oil pan drop playlist
Hey, great video, and I've some of your other videos so I'm glad that you left such a toxic environment to open your own place. I do have one question, I'm not sure you can answer, but I'm in the process of buying the new 2024 Crosstrek Wilderness and wondering if this RTV sealant will be an issue for me as well? I heard that the 2nd gen Crosstreks this was an issue but the it doesn't really show itself until about 200-250k miles and that would be the single most expensive repair if you keep your vehicle that long. Any advice before making this big purchase I'd appreciate
Around how many miles would you recommend cleaning out the oil pickup tube? Is it ever too soon? I am a new gr86 owner with less than 1K miles still and plan on using it for street and daily driving only. Would love to bring my car to you at some point in the future!
1,000 miles (first oil change) is a good time to clean the oil pick up and install an oil baffle (for track or touge use)
This is making me think twice about taking my BRZ in for the tail lamp recall... Maybe I should get the parts and just do it myself.
So glad I do my own repairs.
Subaru and Toyota need to add an option on the display screen that shows Oil Pressure and Voltage.
I emailed Toyota for my GR86
And they told as long as the oil light INS’T blinking I am ok ???
They ask me if I am willing to pay $400,00 dls for cleaning o removing the oil pan !!!
The oil light is a "dummy" on/off lamp. It will NOT show if the car has an oil pressure issue. If there is only 1-2qts of oil total in the engine, the light still will not turn on.
My 2024 GR 86 engine blew at 4k miles. Blasted a hole in the back of the block spraying oil all over the firewall and on the windshield
Did the dealer determine cause of failure?
@@CMAutohaus they haven't told me anything as of yet but showed me that the piston rod in cylinder 4 was shattered
Any update on this?
But if you as a tech did a crappy job the first time and the customer brings back the car for the same issue. What happens then? Does the tech have to redo the job. Will he get paid? On a returned job?
The tech should have to redo the job for free on a returned job. The issue is that what if he is not there that day or is a kiss ass? Then another tech does his return job for free
That's why you see folks hit lugs with torque sticks. "close enough is good enough".
What I can't do myself, I take to shops that just bill by the job and treat the techs well. Don't have a problem paying for the techs work.
This flat rate system gotta go. If not, pay them doctors flat rate, the human body never changes like cars change every year 😂.
Imagine if your doctor got paid flat rate. Lets flat rate open heart surgery and upsell something the patient doesnt need lol
if i get a GR86 to daily drive casually, do i need to be concerned about these engine issues? is it just a result of tracking the car?
No one has answered if there are any long term effects to RTV blocking the oil strainer such a long term oil aeration or rtv making it past the strainer
Daily driving should* be fine, but at minimum I recommend an RTV inspection at 1,000 and 6,000 miles for our customers
We've found surprises before such as strings of RTV in the oil or an oil filter full of metal at 1000 miles.
@@CMAutohaus thanks for the reply!
Dealerships is the worst place to have your car service.
Thank you for the terrifying info....
Thanks for the watch
So I'm one of the early owners of a gr86. My dealership was able to drop the pan and clean up the rtv probono, free of charge.
Should I be concerned and what should I do to have some reassurance?
You can go to a Subaru specialty independent shop and have them do a borescope inspection to see how well the job was done
Free? They probably didn't do it at all. 😂
@@harrylo2316 we may never know 😂
@@TeraAFK Until your engine sh*ts itself. Best to get it checked out by a specialist just for the peace of mind.
I've been saying for years that flag hour should be illegall
Ive worked PLENTY of 8 hours days only to LEGALLY make less than $20 for the day. You are preaching to the choir.
So are the newer gr86 still having the same issues or is it best to just reseal the oil pan right away when buying a new one?
ua-cam.com/video/43BQEbKQhBI/v-deo.html
We recommend a repair (or not) based on our findings during this test. If you are still pulling RTV out of your old oil on the 2nd or 3rd oil change, you probably have an issue.
$900 let alone $1200 is robbery to drop a damn oil pan. At most you have a down pipe, starter and maybe subframe to remove then zip the bolts out..
Shop labor rates here in the Bay Area is $200 - 300/hr. Do the hourly math.
Keep in mind $100k /yr income here puts your household as "low income." Perspective based on geography.
Hi, I got 2013 FRS is 2 times replace the flex- plate why the flex- plate break twice what is the problem and how fix it.. Thank you.
Next time a low rpm non aggressive stainless steel polishing wheel would’ve cleaned the excess off with a thorough blow down and clean up afterwards
Is it possible to remove arc and replace with a custom made gasket instead?
What about when it takes half as long as the hours. That's free time. I guess that doesn't happen often. I think the whole procedure should be video recorded that way the customer can review what's done. Along with anybody else. When you go to a dealer you're spending extra money thinking that you're getting a better job but in actuality it may be damaging your vehicle.
I think the even bigger issue is that the public has completely lost trust in car dealerships. And instead of trying to find the specific issues that caused the lack of trust, dealers have customers fill out BS customer service surveys for KPI
Man... who came up with that system. That sounds insane. I wonder how other countries do it
Every car person should understand:
The dealer DOES NOT CARE about extending the life of your vehicle! Their main goal is to sell cars, and the service center is just a supplement to that.
Take your car to an INDEPENDENT SHOP because their life blood & main service is to FIX YOUR CAR PROPERLY and keep you on the road.
I feel for all these new car buyers that get suckered at the stealerships, and given the run-around by service advisors (who are basically just salesman/publicity figures) They assume they'll get good treatment after buying a car instead of being sold more garbage or neglected aftercare of their car, even if it wrecks it.
Sold the car a month ago, glad its no longer my problem 🤣
Hi is there any way you could use a gasket instead of the R T V
Yes shop.battlegarage-rs.com/products/limited-quantity-rubber-cork-version-1-battle-garage-frtv-fa20-fa24-oil-pan-gasket?_pos=2&_sid=13e7d4c29&_ss=r
It won't do you any good. The issue isn't the RTV from the pan, oil slushing around in the pan doesn't have the force to rip RTV off and RTV doesn't just fall off on it's own .it's the RTV from everywhere else, like the timing cover and the crank case. Imo more likely that it's all from the crank case where RTV seals oil galleries, cause that's the only place oil will build enough pressure to rip off obstructing RTV.
Is this a issue on the 2.5 naturally aspirated engine on the Forester 2018? -:)
I'm going to post a video on my channel, can anybody tell me this ticking sound? Is it a arm lifter, or Camshaft ticking?
I haven't seen any any issues yet with my GR86 on this issue. Makes me scared when I will see it. I don't see anything on my dipstick at the moment just yet. Makes me nervous.
This is exactly why you do your research. I wamted the gr86 so bad. Went with gr Corolla 24. It's legit
thankfully toyota offers 3 different enthusiast products! haha supra, 86 and gr corolla!
GR Corolla has more common issues on track than the 86, plus long term also has far more complex failure points. Completely different driving experiences anyway.
@@SereneSpeed no it doesn't. Ask any yaris owner. They beat the absolute piss out of em. No 86 guy can say that 😅
@@AnytimePaintingCoGo browse the forums & watch SavageGeese’s video. Tons more problem-free track time with GR86s than GR Corollas. All well-documented. Neither are problem-free, but I’m not making this up.
@@AnytimePaintingCoyour car is awesome, don’t get me wrong. I’d love one for a daily if I needed AWD. But believing they are issue-free with heat management is a dangerous game.
Mechanics have to fix older and newer cars that have completely different designs when it comes to the nooks and crannies. Sometimes there aren't the right tools available which are optimized to fix new problems. There is a huge misconception that time spent on each car getting fixed should be consistent because they have the same platform architecture or transmission/engine combo. It would be ideal for maintenance to be a part of product development to promote longevity and reliability, but that would drive the cost of a car up 😂😂
We have flat rates in Europe for repairs but the professor engineer mechanics always get their full 8 hours pay.
Why should you do the job correctly? Are you kidding me? Probably because the customer paid 10s of thousands of dollars for a vehicle and they deserve it. You think? Why should a carpenter build your home correctly? ...... when if they half ass it they get paid the same amount in half of the time.. C'mon! The customer shouldn't have to suffer for your pay grievance. You take up your pay grievance with those responsible. But in the mean time, always, ALWAYS take pride in any work you stamp your name on. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right! Your mind has been warped over the years by negative, scorned and depressed co workers. They don't give AF about the customer. But, does that mean you shouldn't? The customer should never, ever have to suffer because of issues with pay. Especially when they are dishing out $200/hour, or more!!! Customers pay their fair share!!!!! You talk about how "everybody wins" except for you. No! "everybody wins" except the customer when you half ass your work.
I would NEVER leave my vehicle with you. I do not doubt your skill and ability, I bet you are fantastic... when you want to be. But your mindset is ridiculous. If I ask for a service and am given a price that's agreed to, I expect to get what I paid for. If the end "technician" doesn't think it is worth his time to take pride in the work he stamps his name on, he shouldn't do it to begin with. Pass it off to somebody else. And if nobody is willing to do the job with honor and pride, let the customer know so they can find a more honest shop. This is such a ridiculous mindset and is exactly the stereotype in my mind when I think of mechanics. Such dishonesty. You've confirmed how shady you are. That's on YOU.
I found this article and your comment right on time - this is an industry wide problem www.thedrive.com/news/ford-is-still-trying-to-clean-up-takata-airbag-repairs-that-dealers-botched
He's not talking about HIS mindset. He's talking about the mindset of an average technician who's getting screwed by the flat rate system. The system incentivizes fast, poor work. If people are constantly getting screwed by their pay structure and dealership, they're going to cut corners. That's human nature. This whole honor system "pride" mindset you think should exist can't last under those conditions.
Hey! Im from fairfield. Do you guys service 2022 wrx also? Looking to get a few things done on the rex.
Does this affect 2019 foresters? Should I ask the dealer to look at? What are the symptoms
All Toyota dealers
in Washington state deny RTV removing!!!!
Pro tip: gasoline will clean up rtv residue. Threebond is used on most Asian vehicles. Do not use power tools to remove rtv.
This video is terrifying. How can I expect the dealer to do anything correctly? I have 2.5 years of free maintenance. How do I know they’re actually doing it?
Bingo. At minimum I would have a 3rd party verify the oil and coolant levels are correct after every service.
Basic. I know. But dealers cant even get that right.
@@CMAutohaus I will certainly be doing that. I’ll be doing the first oil change on my WRX after break in. But I still want to get my free oil changes at the 6000 mile intervals. I guess I’ll mark the oil filter somehow to make sure it’s replaced and of course check the oil level. How do I know they’ll do the no start crank to get the oil circulated before starting the first time? I’m gonna be picky about this because I want my car to last.
@@ViaticalTree "How do I know they’ll do the no start crank to get the oil circulated before starting the first time?"
100% they are NOT going to do this. Flat Rate pay at the dealership means get the work out as fast as possible. Basic services like oil changes go to the entry level, least experienced.
@@CMAutohaus lol wonderful. It takes a whole extra 10 seconds. I’ll ask them to do it and maybe there’s a slight chance they will. Thanks for the replies.
I’m reaching here, but would you happen to know if anyone does an RTV inspection similar to what you do on Oahu? Or even just someone out here trustable to check this out? I have a 2023 GR86 and want to get it looked at.
Thats not a tech move, thats a shadetree move, n the cold startup oil will bypass the filter till it gets warm. 😮
As a customer where I have problem is to pay same $/hr let say for rotor removal vs highly specialized job like valve adjustment. Not sure if there is a solution for it.
Do you do installs? Downpipes and hpfp?
is this year specific? i saw guys with outbacks having same issue.
can you recommend a specialist near NYC?
AZP Installs in New Jersey is my go-to independent shop.
Just bought a new vehicle and it absolutely frightens me that the most important person I'm entrusting my very expensive recent purchase to gets treated like ass. I'd gladly request the same technician every time and even pay a tip to ensure I dont get screwed. Has that ever been a thing in your career?
Can I come to your shop to with other Subarus or only brzs?
Use the contact us form on our website. We are overbooked on work, but can make some exceptions
all tech unite and refuse to do the 1/2 rate warranty to force manufactures pay same.
if I paid for a SYMS oil pan & baffle would it guarantee no RTV issues? In 2024 BMZ...
The baffle would help against oil starvation, not RTV issues. RTV issues are inherent from the factory
But are 2024 cars still having RTV issues? It would be crazy they haven't taken any action at least to solve that issue. The right corner low pressure is another design flaw harder to resolve different than rhe solution provided in thia channel. But I wonder if they are still putting lot of RTV tonseal the engines
Good job on covering this stupidity from Subaru - I grew up with Subarus long ago - they were always solid no complaints - was trained on a MANUAL 4 SPEED silver Subaru snow wagon 4WD with the white spoke cool wheels - major screwup by current Subaru ...AND.....WHY is Subaru not manning up on this issue - this issue is DESTROYING SUBARU'S REPUTATION, ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF HONESTY TO CUSTOMERS - VERY ANTI-JAPANESE BEHAVIOR. Subaru is practicing 'WE DON'T CARE ABOUT OUR CUSTOMERS' - the OPPOSITE OF JAPANESE PHILOSOPHY. I hope Subaru gets it's REAR HANDED TO IT SOONER THAN LATER. ALSO - RTV long term - why has Subaru put all their eggs into the one basket of RTV for engine sealing VERSUS high quality gaskets ?? Subaru's lack of action on this topic is becoming a tsunami
Is there a good local auto repair shops list to look at for work on our Subaru's
Never trust the dealerships. The only time going there is when buying a car or recalls if strictly necessary , nothing else.
How worried should I be taking my wrx to the dealer? I just bought a 2023 wrx. Now I’m scared to even do the milestone maintenance or oil changes.
Find a local Subaru specialist shop that also does performance work. Do your 15k, 30k, 60k service with them. Dealer lube techs will bypass the MPI leave you assed out if you are out of warranty for a repair that should have been caught early on during an MPI
@@CMAutohaus I appreciate the reply. Thank god there are a decent amount of Subaru specialists in and around Los Angeles.
Does anyone know if this has been fixed for 2024MY GR86s? Mine is scheduled to be built next week. Any idea? Thanks!
Does the vb WRX suffer the same ?
Gotta open an indie shop to make it and take the risks inherent with running your own business.
Tough call. I am struggling like to hell to scale up my shop. Finding skilled/reliable labor is a major pain point for all trades at this point.
I want to get into the trade any recommendations for school or how to approach this
Nothing automotive. I'd recommend HVAC, plumbing, or electrical. Look around locally for a trade school or community college.
Just food for thought, 2 of the weathiest people I know are just "plumbers" including my friend and customer @rikosway who just shipped his cars to Japan for this past Tokyo Auto Salon@@albetherechillin
@@albetherechillin If you're ok with heights, look into roofing. It is absolutely more than working on rooftops and could be highly profitable.
Jeez, I would get at least min wage if I didn’t exceed it with flat time.
I didnt train the past 2 decades to hope to make minimum wage. Again, why cant I just get paid my regular wage.