455 SUPER DUTY Trans Am vs 455 HO GTO - 1/4 Mile Drag Race - RoadTestTV
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- WHO WINS? - 455 HO GTO vs 455 Super Duty Trans Am??
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Two Old school Pontiac muscle cars go head to head in a quarter mile drag race. Both cars are competing in the Pure Stock Drags, so modifications are limited to porting, blue printing and minor weight reduction without altering the stock appearance. That means stock intake manifold, stock exhaust manifolds and street tires.
The 1972 455 HO GTO is very rare as only 310 were built. The GTO is powered by Pontiac's 455 Cubic Inch (7.5 Liter) High Output V8 which was rated at 300 Net horsepower and 415 lb-ft of torque due to a drop in compression ration which occurred in 1971.
The 1974 Pontiac Trans Am 455 Super Duty racing the 455 HO GTO is also is very rare (only 943 built) since it's optioned with Pontiac's potent Super Duty 455 cubic inch (7.5 L) which was jokingly rated at 290 Net horsepower and 395 lb-ft of torque. The Super Duty was Pontiac's final attempt at high performance in the 1970's. The 455 Super Duty motor was no joke.
The 455 HO GTO is a 4 Speed manual and the 455 SD Trans Am is equipped with GM's Turbo 400 automatic transmission. So WHO WINs? Watch the video and see what happens.
Comment below - Tell us what you think and which car you'd rather own after watching the video...
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The Super Duty was an emissions compliant race engine back then. When everyone else threw in the towel on the muscle car, Pontiac threw up a middle finger. But in the process, the Super Duty lost 20 horsepower from its original 310 hp rating. Still, an engine for the ages
Yes, it was an awesome engine, but too bad so few were made. Kind of a dead end like the ford SOHC 427.
Pontiac was still young in the racing industry, so they had a rebelling attitude and sass. Nothing's gonna stop we Pontiac boyz from driving hard and kicking ass.
They just took the cam down a notch fro 041 to 068. 068 is an excellent cam for any stock port engine. Idle to 5k and doesn’t matter if you have high or low compression still works well. If high comp you need better octane though because the cam causes high cyl psi. It works with stock springs unlike the 041. It also works with whatever rear gears but I wouldn’t want more than 3.90 on a 400 and not more than 3.42 for 455 and on the street I’d use 3.08 for the 455.. maybe the 400 but prefer 3.42 on a 400 and stock torque converter works fine. More stall speed wouldn’t help a 455 but maybe a 3k stall speed for the 400 especially on the strip. Sorry to go on but I like it a lot 😂
I'm a chevy guy but that was a helluva race! These are not pinnacle muscle cars because of stricter emission laws and lower compression kicking in but Pontiac big block torque is no joke!Moving these two heavy weights to low 13 second passes at over 100 mph is a thing of pure beauty! Big respect to big Poncho power!
Well said, Ronnie. Agree 100%. Thanks for watching !
@Mark Richards
My mom bought a 1967 Firebird new. It had the 326. Not too shabby.
@Mark Richards Ha ha, kinda like someone telling you that the biggest motor you could put in a Vega is a 327.
@Mark Richards exactly .. pontiac engines were all the same size .. so they don't have typical big/ small definition from 326 to 455.. heck my dodge 360 is bigger then my ta455
@Mark Richards They're not small blocks either.
Thanks for making a car video without fart sounds like that Car and Zebras guy.
midnight savannah Thanks for watching, Midnight. We like sticking to the facts ...
Oh I hat that too
Exactly ! Same thing for me, i like those race without fart sound or movie sequence.
Same track, same Title fonts/colours/graphics.....pretty sure it's different channel same dude.
For all you Pontiac bashers out there, here is what Pontiac was all about back in the day, truly the end of an amazing era! Both cars are totaly awesome. Great run!
The early 70's Pontiac S.D. engine is often not understood/overlooked. It was not related to the H.O. or Ram Air engines and has an interesting origin.
Gotta love the forged rods.
@@superduty4556 True, funny though it had a poor camshaft (RA III) the HO had a RA IV
@@bailey9r 455 HO did NOT use RAIV cam. It would not have passed emissions. Wallace Racing has the cam for ALL HO engines as same: 1965-72 HO Stamping: "S" Dur IN / EX 288 113 lift IN / EX .407" .447" PN 9779068. As mentioned above comments this GTO certainly does NOT have a stock camshaft, I can tell you that.
@@bailey9r If you stood behind my stock 74 SD 4 speed at idle you might change your mind...it's a raspy cam. And when I nail it in first, the wheelspin STARTS when it comes up on the cam around 3000 rpm. As far as the 455 HO cam goes, if you do some checking you'll see it had the so-called "HO" camshaft. This was more conservative than the RA 3 and way softer than the RA 4 cam.
@@aldo6192 I've only owned three SD-455 cars plus a standard 455 73 TA. I've followed the SD cars since summer of 72 when they were announced. I was in the dealership to order one October 72. And I have a sizeable library of original road tests and hard cover books on the subject. Dream on Aldo.
Pontiac against Pontiac...
But my $$$ is on the Tran... Lighter!!! Smaller!!! Boss SD455!!! Tran edged out GTO!!! On our "small track" back then, GTO could give many a serious run, but that SD455 FINALLY gives the Tran the Power it should have had all along!!! Would LOVE to own one. Wish GM would bring Pontiac back.💜
Dang, that was a close race!
Thought for sure the Trans Am was going to lose. He squeaked it out.
@@davidgraham2673 watch again, the ET lights for the GTO first. The slip is the of reaction time to finish lights. The GTO got the holeshot
I don't recall the stock GTO's sounding like that. That one had a little more lope than I remember.
jbr496 definitely not stock, cam upgrade
@@richardmarcott4343 ...upgraded to the HO cam, or are you saying it has an aftermarket cam?
Thats right. The Only Pontiac that sounded like that was the RAM AIR 4 which had 520 lift.
@@bgandjsco1 ...Hmmm, a Ram Air IV...55. I love it! =D
@@aldo6192 First off the two cams are very similar AND are not even close to the RamAir 4 cam . I'll say it again that is not a stock cam in that GTO . Second the SD was a better engine. It had a stronger Block . Forged Rods,and its Cylinder heads flowed better,and its Qjet flowed 800CFM
Paul Aragona in the 74 SD T/A. He has shown to be in the 12.6 area. He's been racing this awhile and I am sure everytime he's got big smile on his face.
I wonder how different things would have been if the the Trans Am was a manual instead of an auto and if it had a posi rear end or if the GTO was an auto instead of a stick. Those two cars were really closely matched though and I think the factory HP/TQ numbers from Pontiac back in the day were just a little underrated...
Both have posi for sure. I agree that’s an excellent match
With 455s I feel like auto is quicker but both of these breathe better than D-port heads I’m used to so the 4spd may be quicker for a good driver (outa the hole mainly but gotta powershift too lol).
Cool race. The Goat came closer than I expected. Give credit to the driver, knowing how to row a 4 speed. (A lost and dying art). Thanks for posting.
Too much Cam in that goat. I bet it runs hot as hell
@@scottsharp3356 Too much cam? Runs hot? Given the info presented above, how could you possibly conclude that? Do you personally happen to know the car and driver?
I was predicting beforehand that that race would be VERY close. GTO had 10 more horses but 200 more lbs to lug around. Good race and nice cars!
i had a 1976 TA that was castrated it was all I could do to beat a pinto, My buddy had a 1977 Vet he called it the plastic pig, 0-60 about 5 minutes ,
Great video and great race! I knew it would be close but I figured the edge would go to the GTO because of the 4 speed.
88tcoupe - Glad you liked the video and Thanks for the support!
76 what ? Don't understand that at all !!!
?? Generally automatics do better in the quarter mile
The 455 HO GTO does not have a stock Cam.
Doesn't have the original style tires either. Those are radials.
It would take at least 350 hp or more to get that 13.09. That motor is way underrated.
Man that was too close .the weight of the GTO might have been a factor
GTO (left lane) has the win light.
Close Race - Actually that 74 SD-455 T/A has run a best of 12.46 @ 109 mph - specs per pure stock rules milled heads 9.7 - 1 comp. 3.9 rear gears - factory style tires - 399 rwhp - SD has lots of potential left PMD Test Mule SD-455 made 600 hp 12.5-1 comp etc. :)
Thanks for the info. 12.4 @ 109 is flying with that SD considering the rules in the Pure Stock class. 👍
I'm a Ford guy, but I'd be the first to admit the sd455 TA kept the dream alive. Saw a test once where a SD ran 13.9 on pump gas bone stock. No need to turn it past 5300 RPM! Just good ole gut wrenching tourque. Timeless body lines too.
Correct, this SD 455 T/A is owned by Paul Aragona and did just that.
I have had a lot of fast cars and have to say my 74 455SD was a beast. Service manual stated engine would sound loose and it did. But it was fast. The 400 automatic transmission from the factory didn't give any control from 1st to 2nd gear, but the torque made up for it. It would Rev up high too.
@G Holloway Agree. The 455SD was a beast. Thanks for sharing !!
Poncho power long after the other guys gave up
True
Just subscribed to your site, my health has failed me so i do not get to the track anymore. God bless you guys for this UA-cam channel!!!!!!
Trans am baby👊👊👊👊👊👊👊🤠🤠🤠
I have to call BS on those numbers on the 455 SD, I have personally been in the passenger seat of a stock 73 and it had way more torque than is rated.
Oh no 2 GM cars who will win? A tie so both win lol.
I had a 74 SD TransAm, it was that flip flop blue to purplish color. Had a black interior and a 4 speed. I think there were on 50 4 speeds made that year. That's one car I wish I never got rid of.
The Super Duty Trans Am is something special especially considering the years it was produced (73-74) since most other manufacturers had nothing to compete with it.
212 in 74
@@roadtesttv ...great channel...love the work u do. Speaking of cars I wish I hadn't gotten rid of on this thread.. 67 GTO 4 SPEED...70 Olds 442 W30..what was I thinking! 🤔😅
Wonder if these two have comparable gear ratios? That wasn't stated.
Surprised the transam didn't have posi traction!
All trans ams have positraction from the factory
Love the Pontiac on Pontiac violence
You got a 74 290/395 T/A SD
You got a 72 300/415 GTO ..
Both bad ass cars ... After seeing an actual race .. both of these cars were called “Sleds” in my heyday.. some said.. these BB’s are only pushing 300hp .. well as we all can see here ... Never mind the HP .. look at the torque!! 395/415 ... that’s what pushes these sleds .. me personally would love to own that 455SD ..
It was all in the driver.
Great race.
Back in my computer tech days in the late 70's early 80's, I serviced computers at Pontiac, as part of my assigned area. I remember seeing an engine sitting on a cradle in a corner in one of the plants, along with some other stuff. The engine was painted gray, unlike the blue engine in the '71 T/A I had at the time. I think it was a 455 SD, but I could't be sure, as I wasn't into looking at head casting numbers at the time. I get to wondering now and then what happened to it.
SD lost 20 Horsepower from the original rating of 310 because Pontiac was going to use the RAIV Camshaft but the engine didn't pass emissions . The RAIV camshaft was stamped with a K in 1973 and rated the engine at 310 HP. Because a milder cam was used the engine was rated at 290 HP. Still both numbers were underrated. Takes 370 HP plus to push a 3750 Trans AM into the 13s so the ratings were still lower to fool save on the insurance premiums.
428 sj grand prix would dust that goat 1969 style faster bet
Can't get a much closer race!
Trans Am was power brake and just to get the wheels to burn from the starting line where he get all that power to beat the G T O
If both cars were completely stock the 455 HO GTO should be faster due to the higher compression ratio. Both the Trans AM and the GTO have the round port heads. Race was very very close and mind you, no one in their right mind really has a totally stock muscle car these days.
I only ever raced a TA SD 455 ONCE and it was not on the track but rather from a 45 mph roll. It was on a section of 2 lane road leaving Willow Springs Raceway.
I was behind the Pontiac and didn't know it was a SD 455.
I was in my 71 Pantera which in 1990 was running a 351 Cleveland with a lot of solid lifter cam ported heads long tube headers and a 3310 Holley. Bottom end was stock except for Carillo rods . The engine had dynoed at 423 hp at the crank.
I pulled out to pass downshifting to 2nd. He jumped on it and it was game on. After shifting to 3rd I had pulled on him enough to read SD 455 on the hood scoop.
I continued to gradually pull on him until I hit 4th and could tuck in front of him.
I figured he'd give up then but he didn't.
I continued to gradually open a gap till around 130 at which point I shifted to 5th and began to open some serious daylight between us.
That occurred around 145.
At that point I concluded that with his hydraulic lifter engine and gearing and lack of over drive I'd run him out of gear and or motor so I shut down at about 160.
He came up along side me shaking his head like he couldn't believe it.
I was quite surprised that he'd given me such a run frankly.
Honestly he probably would have beaten me in the quarter from a standing start as I wouldn't have sidestepped the clutch and it was virtually impossible to powershift the gated ZF transaxle and a good way to break one or a half shot anyway.
Bur like most people I kid of had little respect for any muscle car built after 71 due to the low compression and mild cams and emission equipment.
I'd had far less trouble with 454 Vettes of thst vintage and had utterly humiliated a Ferrari 365 GTB on the 210 Fwyway.
So I really didn't expect the Pontiac to put up the fight that it did. It would have been interesting if he'd had around a .7 OD gear.
From the way the 455 owner was shaking his head he was a bit surprised by my Pantera also and I'd wager that he had raced and beaten stock Panteras previously.
The stock Pantera as delivered from Mercury in 1971 was rated at 300 hp which was probably pretty accurate.
.
8
freaking hot sex tubes 455. Put modern rubber, tires and updated suspension geometry on and these things would be pulling flat 12's every time.
I always think this 428 Cobra jet V/S 455 SD!!!
I would like to have seen a little more fair of a race. Both cars with a 4spd stick or automatic then we can see which has more oomph.
Come on how much closer can it really be?
Sick!!! From a true Pontiac enthusiastic! Great driving skills and pure Pontiac Power!
Very cool. TA looked to launch slightly better
That’s about the coolest race I’ve ever seen. Two of Pontiacs premium muscle cars and engines.
Had a chance to have bought a TA looking just like this one same year when i lived in IL in 2006. Car was in original condition low miles for less than 17K! Should have bought it!!!
Yes you should have. I promise you that you would not regret it. It's never too late.
Very good race. Gotta love the classic muscle cars
Gotta go see this race.
Nice loving classics
Thanks. We like seeing hard running old school muscle.
I don't know how I missed your channel for so long, so when I discovered it, I promptly subscribed.
When I was living in Gretna, LA (New Orleans' West Bank) I had, for a brief while, a '67 GTO with the factory 400 and auto tranny. It's funny - almost uncanny - how "Poncho" people meet and get to know eachother in a town the size of Gretna! I met these 2 guys who lived across the street from eachother. One had a stock '72 SD Trans Am, great condition and factory stock. The other guy had a '71 GTO Judge he had swapped out the original 400 to install a 421 he had gotten out of a '65 or '66 Catalina 2+2 (remember those?) with the tri-power. He had COMPLETELY did a body off restoration on this car and had a scrapbook full of pictures of it in various stages of restoration. He was in the end stages of installing the engine when I met him. I moved away before it was completed. He planned to garage it, drive it minimally, then meticulously clean it before he showed it. Yes, it was "fireball orange" with yellow stripes. I've been meaning to check the Gretna directory if he's still there and still has the car after all these years. 🚗
@daleandrews3552 Thanks for sharing the story of your 67 GTO. The 67 is one of the best looking GTO’s in our opinion. Also, we are glad you found the channel. Thanks for watching !!
I'm surprised they let the GTO run with radials on it.
EDIT: Checked the rules and regular street radials are allowed. I retract my prior statement but am still putting it out there as that means that SD is *fast* to still chase him down with a pretty sizable traction disadvantage
Those are 13:50 cars. Cams and exhaust do the trick. More compression they would be in the 12's. This race was won on the starting line.
Need to work on traction control on that GTO - wheel hop...
The SD is running as expected for a stock example. The HO is likely modified ( cam, 1.65 rocker arms?). I have an original Motor Trend test of a 72 HO 455 4 speed GTO that they couldn't get to run quicker than the 15s.
Both not 100% stock
@@aldo6192 If you say so Aldo. Read a book.
Prity much a tie
If this vid taught me anything it is that old schools are bad ass and 300hp isn't enough.
Both of these cars have more than 300 horses. They are modified and pushing around 450+........
Riding shotgun we stacked a 72 455 H.O. GTO on the Auburn California bridge back in the day...
Had this exact same color combo 72 goat yrs ago. (Mid 90s-2005 or so). Drove it daily all that time. No HO tho. Muncie, 3.55s, unfortunately with AC. (Didn't work). Matching numbers. Had/have a set of 71 455 HO heads, (191s), and contemplated putting a 455 HO in it, but the matching #'s detered me. Wish I had done it, and kept it. This Goat makes me regret it more. Wonder why no match race 2 in this video? Seems the Goat won the 1st race, even tho the T/A ETd better.
They both cut good lights, excellent matchup. The right driver & tune up mean everything on street tires.
The T/A had a little less power, but the weight advantage is what showed here.
I don't think there really was a weight advantage. T/A's usually weighed in the 3900lb range. I seriously doubt this one was 3600.
On a dyno, SD455s make more power than HO455s. That GTO is definitely "blueprinted".
@@SealofPerfection Unless he has pulled all the bumper supports. The 1974 and '75 TAs are heavy.
Vaya buena Carrera pues , ese es el Pontiac Gto the judge 455 ho de 1971 vs Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 455 Super Duty
looked like that ta had a open read end
There are many ways to hide mods on pure stock class vehicles. There’s also hidden weight, hidden weight reduction, tire softeners, etc. These cars didn’t record quite this quick times, pure stock, back in the day
Neither one knows how to do a burnout, LOL
Name another 1974 car that could beat out or come so close to a 72.
loved this channel for years. GTO was NOT stock, and running what it did for a '72 just proves my point. it ran what a '70 would have. love old pontiac's, thanks for this.
None of the cars are factory stock
Now that was a race.....
Quit with the lbs ft ----- sick.
That’s one of the best Pontiac vs Pontiac races you could have imo
The Trans Am looked like it didn't have a limited slip
Rest assured, it did.
Toss up on the stat sheet, toss up on the track.
I am surprised the TA SD455 had no positraction...
❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥
Be nice to know the rear gears of them 2. I'm guessing 3.08s (T/A), and 3.55s, (Goat)
The non A/C SD 455 T/A's came with a 3.42 rear which this one would have come with originally.
@@74SD455TA Hey! I know you. From one of our FB forums. Glad to know you're still out there :)
@@joequillun7790 Still here but I do not do FB, maybe you have me mixed up with someone else?
@@74SD455TA Maybe the "High Performance Pontiac" forum, from yrs ago?
Or "Firebird Nation"? If no, someone has the exact same screen name as yours.
@@joequillun7790 I did enjoy HPP. Good stuff except me, just a reader. Either way, you an I both like em so let's GO!
I'm surprised I thought the 74 would loose to a 72.
Which one weighed more?
Oh come on man this wasn't fair at all in 1972 horsepower was almost dead it barely had a heartbeat but by 1974 horsepower what is long dead and buried I mean if you're going to start racing and testing American Muscle you need to start comparing cars between the years of 66 to 71 or it's not even worth watching because it's just too predictable sorry but that's the reality of it
In one respect, you're right, in that when GM dropped their compression in 71, HP fell off. But these 2 cars are in a class by themselves. 73-74 SDs, altho laden with smog, still had respectable power. The 455 HO Goat with the 4 speed, wasn't far behind. Both cars are rare, and deserve the respect they earned, by being very competitive in their stock classes, back in the day. (and even by todays standards.)
That was the best race I've seen on this channel! Nice work!
Why do they suffer these boat anchor engines when a nice Chevy would drop right in ?
GTFO Poser!!!