Pressfit vs Threaded Bottom Brackets, Pressfit is King. A 5 year old says so.
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- In this video I talk through in hard on technical terms, the difference between Pressfit and Threaded bottom brackets.
The Boardman frame shown is aluminium and threaded. The alignment is appalling.
Thanks to Chris from blood sweat and gears for sending the Boardman frame in.
/ bloodsweatandgearscycles
My Website
hambini.com
To all the fuck stains complaining that I swear too much, go and fuck a duck. It's my YT channel and I'm not asking you to watch.
Hambini fuck those assholes!
this is why I am subscribed to you friend. That and invaluable easily accessible information on bikes, bike parts.
You used a piece of junk bottom bracket, that is likely misaligned, to attempt to show that a frame is out. WTH?! Amateur hour at its best. I stopped watching right there. 🤷🏼♂️
PS what retaining compound do you use when installing BB's on carbon fiber frames?
bravo
I've worked as an engineer for over 25 years (never in the bicycle industry) and if the manufacturing world was run by engineers and not accountants, we wouldn't be in the mess that we are with any number of industries. The world is being run by accountants more and more. It used to be that corporations advanced engineers to management. Some still do but management is overrun with business majors and accountants. No one wants to build quality, they just want to make a quick buck...
Cool it with the antisemitism.
You don’t need to change, survival is not mandatory!
W. E. Deming
The problem is that the capitalist enterprise is undemocratic/hierarchical. The people who make the most profits are often promoted, and as Hambini exposes examples of, we see that marketing too often trumps quality in terms of profit. It's a problem. Watch Richard Wolff if you want to get to know that problem and a potential solution.
Same everywhere mate.
Agreed. I worked twenty years in the computer engineering field for a major computer company. I especially loved it when they would save .14 cents on a part and end up spending millions on warranty returns or customer dissatisfaction on performance. Bean counter are true wankers.
‘Swearing is just Northern English for emphasis.’
I’m from Leeds. This is fucking true.
Even truer in Glasgow. If yer no swearing, it's fuckin' shite.
I live 30ish miles west of London & it's still fucking truth you bunch of shits!
Clicks on hambini’s video, quickly remembers to minimise volume before he says hello and bursts my eardrums.
You WANT to miss a vital part of the show?? Rgr
As someone who’s self teaching himself bike repair and design.... this channel is that of a college course. It’s extremely easy to follow and makes bike building and parts selection EXTREMELY easier than forum suggestions and LBS contract suggestions. Thank you millions
As a bike mechanic, I can say that every single mass-market bike I have ever assembled or serviced has had one or more big manufacturing errors. The difference is that threaded BBs will almost never manifest in a problem that means the client cannot ride their bike. Shop owners like those because it means we don't have to try and warranty those, and so underpaid, overworked employees won't say when there's an unnoticeable problem. A lot of direct fit BB's (like Cannondales with aluminum BB sleeves) gave us problems upon replacement, especially when corners were cut. My hot take is that PF is considered worse because errors in manufacturing and service result in unavoidable problems more frequently.
And. From an engineering perspective, PF is superior in multiple ways, but I also think that as long as the BB interface doesn't creak and doesn't damage anything and doesn't make the experience of riding less enjoyable... well then ultimately it's not such a big deal.
Aye, and the impression I got from Hambini here was that if you want the dog's bollocks, PF is capable of the best outright performance. Of course what is the "best product to produce, sell and buy" is always going to be a damn sight more complicated than that.
I agree, not a huge deal. But for top end bikes, I find it unnacceptable. They should effectively use the PF system ensuring they're well made. But they don't. We can see that with the new tarmac sl7: threaded BB which basically says "we're uncapable of making a proper round hole in our bikes, so here's a threadad one again".
it's a disgrace and a lack of respect for buyers who expect cutting edge technology.
slimjimihendrix
: What is PF?
@@ElliotFlowers Press Fit
@@Megadeth6633 anybody paying for a tarmac sl7 is getting a brand new bike a year later anyway. Quality isn’t that important.
Showed my Mrs one of your vids... I was halfway through when she joined me. At first, she was all "who's this, why the swearing?" (you were ripping into someone). I urged her to "stick with it love, it's worth it". After 5 mins she was laughing with me. Great times. Keep it up. Oh, and that opener makes me grin every time.
Good stuff ❤❤
Hi Hambini: it's standard practice to smooth the welds down at headset and seat tube joint because these are the one customers see first in the bike shop, not just Boardman, but Specialized, Bianchi also. In fact you would be very hard pushed to find a smooth weld aluminium BB on any brand.
It is obviously more labour intensive to file down the welds, not least becasue it can often involve a second weld pass to provide sufficient material to file away without compromising the frame. Why is the BB left un-smoothed then, you ask? Because it is partly hidden by the crank and so they think it is a bit more out of sight of the customer eye. They're looking to save every penny they can, yet still convince the customer they are buying a beautiful aluminium bike. It's the same as an Ultegra groupset being specced, but - surprise, surprise - a 105 cassette sprocket. The cassette is hidden from customer eyes, but the brakes, gears and cranks aren't so they must be Ultegra.
and yet you're here explaining the obvious to self proclaimed expert engineer, how did that happen? Maybe the obvious part in self proclamation, you trying to learn from wannabe in his shed, good luck.
I love this channel! I don't cycle, don't own a bike but love nerding out watching Hambini bitch slapping engineering twattery! Sheer entertainment.
Me too! But I've ordered my 2nd Hambini BB now! Everybody wants a part or more from the Master!
(just kidding, got 2 rigs)
Yep he’s a genius. 🧠 I don’t know much about the technical aspects but I ride a lot & have 4 complete mountain bikes, an unbuilt frame, 2 complete road bikes, a road frame that is currently being built and a single speed mountain bike. Thanks to this 5 year old I have to drag them all to the bike shop to be checked because I don’t have proper tools or the knowledge to evaluate whether the bottom brackets are in fact oval. I have autism & really like metal. Especially if it’s rusty. I live very close to the Public Library of Cincinnati and Hamilton County which has the 2nd largest book etc. thanks collection in the US only surpassed by the NY City Public Library. They have an enormous technical department where I viewed the tech sheets for Reynolds, Columbus and aluminum bicycle tubing. My favorite part was the stress tests and electron microscopy images of the metals under stress. The ions in steel flowed in wonderful straight lines while the aluminum was so chaotic I wondered if metal could be psychotic. I knew I would never buy an aluminum road frame. Those things beat you to death by failing to absorb road shock. I have arthritis so comfort is essential. That’s why I have carbon road bikes and Spinergy wheels on them and the 2 mountain bikes I ride most of the time. 🚲 📿 🕉
It's just super nice to listen to a proper engineer who knows what he's talking about explaining things in an entertaining way. Bravo.
I was afraid Hambini became way too family friendly and felt big relief when talking about penises and zyklon b started.
Again, one of the most educative and informational BB videos out there. it is a shame learning that on 5,000-6,000$ BB it comes down to poor QC on a 60-70£ piece..
@Hambini... the main advantage of threaded bottom brackets is it is a lot easier for the typical home mechanic to change. Typically to get a bike into a bike shop during summer is a week to ten days to change a press-fit bottom bracket.
Not here in Taiwan... We have bicycle shops everywhere. Take it in and get it done while you wait.
@@hcw199 ... Question, what is the most popular brand of bike in Taiwan?
@@coldforgedcowboy Everyone rides Giant bikes here.
@@hcw199 ...Thx, I kind of figured that was the case.
Some time ago I thought I have heard everything about bottom brackets.
SUPRISE, . . . today again I learned more about it. I very good vlog again. Thanks.
thank you for correctly referring to gravel bikes as hybrids
Fake news, gravel bikes are primitive mountain bikes with drop bars!
i almost fell off me breakfast stool when he said that. sabres rattled, hackles raised, triggers drawn... so good!
@bikegirl2 Invented by Trek??? I think not, search the interweb for the film Klunkerz about the history of homemade (hybrid) "clunkers" ridden on Mt. Tam (Marin County, California) in the 70's. These hybrids and the locals who made/rode them are considered by many to be the birth of modern day Mtn. Biking. Clunker races on Mt. Tam were even broadcast on ABC's Wide World of Sports in the late 70's.
Jonathan Huntington no, they’re cyclocross bikes with fatter tires. CX has been around a lot longer than hybrids or mountain bikes.
David Saunders they look like CX but...
Gravel bikes generally are longer and slacker with lower bottom brackets and usually built with thicker tubing as they are designed for carrying loads over uneven ground. Tire clearance in the frames is also usually designed around a 40mm 700c.
In my 46 years I have never wanted a road bike, Always bmx or mtb. I did however buy a gravel bike 4 years ago for commuting and have to admit it is now my go to bike, I can ride terrain I used to ride on an XC bike years ago. My usual loop is approx 40 miles 2500ft of climbing and Mostly off road.
Running 1X, disc brakes, dropper post and 48cm bars, it’s a blast.
I have a cheap old BTWIN Triban 500 bike by Decathlon. Changed the chain the other day, while chain was off, span the crank and it went beautifully with hardly a touch. Was quite surprised.
...I see a lady once a week called Miss Aligned who corrects me
Uhuh.. Do you have a phone number?? Asking for a friend.. Rgr
@Salvatore Gravano 0.000000005 mm
@@borano2031 her number is too tight, that's just right !
She can't be very good if you have to keep going back 🤔😂😂
@Salvatore Gravano I doubt she tolerates much...
I'm never doubting my pressfit92 ever again after this video! Thanks for the amazing info my dude. you kick ass!
The bottom (bracket) line is: BB are continuously being changed from almost perfect (sealed monobloc construction like Shimano quadra and Octalink) to lesser designs in order to compensate for cheaper and cheaper made bicycle frames.
The sealed monobloc construction bottom bearings were in themselves perfectly aligned but are on installation really intolerant to misaligned threads like the ones shown - careless execution is cheaper execution.
Only issue with cartridge BB's, especially square taper axles, is that for trials and DH use, the BB axles would snap regularly. The ISIS spline setup added enough steel to the axle cross section to get rid of this problem, but the weight penalty was significant.
@RollinRat Trials bikes still run ISIS BB's, but that's about it at this stage (And a lot of them use press fit bearings directly to the frame on an ISIS axle, which allows properly sized bearings and a full size ISIS axle, have a look at Echo's frames for the press fit example.
I've never snapped an ISIS or Octalink axle, but went through a lot of square taper axles and snapped a lot of cranks (Fatigue cracks rather than big landings - I don't ride or crash big enough to break new parts, but I ride a lot).
Even when they were the only option for a strong axle for people who snapped square taper BBs, no ISIS BB I was aware of would take mileage anything like as well as a Shimano UN72 square taper, especially for the money. Octalink got close though. Hollowtech II is nowhere near, especially the new smaller diameter cups, but it's pretty easy to work with and I'll usually get a failure at the pedal eye (This may be the real weak point on Shimano cranks as when they forge the hollow crank shut there is a seam half way through the threads for the pedal where thread failures and cracks seem to initiate) before the bearings have done enough damage to the axle that the cranks won't run play free.
@RollinRat My main biking is long distance XC, a good summer spin will be 100+km with 2+km altitude, and because there aren't too many MTB specific trails here, what qualifies as rideable covers a very broad range for me - especially when combined with my trials background. T47 sounds like a good solution alright. Especially when you consider that the origins of the 1.37" x 24 TPI thread was for threading into steel frames. Same for pedal threads, which is the oldest unchanged bike interface still in use, and one of the worst.
@RollinRat The problem with pedal threads is known as thread precession in engineering. For a thread to fit into a threaded hole it has to be a slightly smaller diameter, so when the thread is loaded in all directions as in the case for a pedal every turn of the crank, the smaller thread will roll inside the bigger hole leading to the thread unscrewing if the unscrewing direction matches the precession direction. This is why left hand pedals (And right hand BB cups) have left hand threads, so the precession tightens the joint as you pedal (And why drivetrains such as the retrodirect 2 speed drivetrain, which was ingenious in its simplicity, providing a different gear pedalling backwards to the one you get pedalling forwards, never got popular as the pedals would keep unscrewing).
The solution to the problem was popularised by Jobst Brandt (Who seems to have been one of the few actual engineers who worked in the bike industry, his book 'The Bicycle Wheel' remains the definitive reference for understanding how spoked wheels work even now) and is to have a conical section on the pedal axle which interfaces with a chamfer on the crank arm. This is exactly why car wheel nuts have a cone at the base incidentally, cars used to have left hand threads on one side to stop the wheels falling off.
The principle is that the cone carries the radial forces, leaving the threads loaded in tension, which they are good at carrying. No component manufacturer I'm aware of ever implemented it, but it has been done by a few home machininsts/bike shops and does solve the problem.
Sure, but any press-fit with cups is a DOUBLE press-fit. A pressing within a pressing. You might argue that the bearing pressed into the cups occurs at the factory with good accuracy, however you are still pressing the axle into those bearings. The fact that Campagnolo follows the industrial standard and places interference on the shaft is probably why it can better compensate for frame imperfections (although with greater friction) including something I’ve observed: I’ve not experienced an Ultra-Torque creaking. Not even on PF30.
Hey, thanks for the afternoon wake up call. That intro is great.
First of your vids I've seen after seeing you ref'd on various forums and in CyclingTips....gotta say that was both funny and informative. And that's me as a 'Wankateer' as you so charmingly put it. And as an ex-pat Midlander living in Oz the swearing makes me yearn for home...keep up the good work!
Chain was caught between the frame and the inner chainring!
yeah, that'a pretty common occurrence...
@@Shwamdoo123 - I got a De Rosa from Chain Reaction Cycles, such a pimp bike but suffered terribly from this and the poor design meant that I properly chewed up the paintwork trying to pull the chain up from behind the chainring as the gap was so narrow... so dont buy a De Rosa and dont buy any bike from CRC lol
@RollinRat - nope, occurred from brand new so a combo of poor set-up from CRC and poor design from De Rosa as the Q factor/BB width was just too narrow, plain and simple so when the chain dropped it went down with force and then needed force to lift it out.
You assume user error but I've likely been riding bikes longer than you've been alive, I've never had the same issue on any other bike, probably at least 20 since the 1970s so if the chain did drop I have always been able to lift it out without carving up the frame
@@unohoncho7727 Don't buy from CRC? Even if I wanted to nothing is ever in stock. I remember when they first went online and not only would they would answer the phone when you called, but it would be answered by someone who knew what they were talking about. Another fine company ruined by accountants.
This was very informative and made me laugh a lot! Bought an Alu frame Synapse in January and BB was creaking like a bastard after 3000km. Don't know who fitted up the BB but found one bearing had not been put in square, some damage to shell housings and only had cheap circlips rather than the OEM Smalley clip rings. Chewed the crankshaft up but a careful dressing managed to salvage it. Managed to get a message to Cannondale who referred me back to the dealer. They informed me as I had 'modified' the bike my warranty was most likely invalidated. What customer service !! Careful cleaning of shells, Smalley clips, uprated bearings, Loctite 641, expand shell by applying gentle heat and press fit squarely. So far so good but time will tell, just hope that the parallel misalignment is okay! Keep the vids coming, they make me smile every time :-)
Oh my god, watching Hambini fiddle around with the BB trying to start the threads was making me go crazy. I wanted to crawl out of my skin.
Nardypants Haha same! I just skipped that part, couldn’t watch it 😂
Sounded like sand in the threads as well... Hambini has created a new kind of anti ASMR video
Pete is never wrong , from what he shows on UA-cam it’s unlikely that he’s an engineer. Hopefully he’s better at his day job!
Pete is never wrong , that’s his claim but with no credentials. The word “engineer” is misused all aver the world.
Pete is never wrong , verified by you, his fanboy?! Ha! He needs to list his credentials here, where he makes the claims. That’s what professionals do.
I make no claims about me because I’m not the person pretending on UA-cam.
Your heritage might not originally be Northern English. But your fuck 'em attitude, sarcasm and doctorate level swearing ability means that you're now one of us whether you like it or not! I've only ever met one man who could have challenged you on all 3. That was my Mancunian dad and he's been dead for a decade. Hambini King of the North!
Respect for your dad.
Misaligned is misaligned, regardless of the assembly type.
oheso - correct, Nor have I ever had a threaded BB frame ever be that far out of alignment. Never had to use a mallet...
Obviously the fact that the people that make Boardmans which are known as being utter shite make a poorly aligned BB shell it's evience that threaded BB's are shite. I wonder if Hambini thinks this is also evidence that carbon fiber is superior to alu alloy based on the evidence of a misaligned BB?
@@jeffbarber8481 same here... that is shockingly bad.
But a thread together BB will partially solve the problem. Partially as the load on the bearings is now at an angle and the chainrings wobble a bit..
@@bigdbaldydom it's not uncommon , esp on cheap bikes
I have run BB86 frames for the last 8 years and safe to say I have not encountered BB86 failure other than wear and tear from the bearings. I ride Eddy Merckx bikes that have used this standard and all never faced any fit problem.
Shouldn't it be more like "Good work is King"?
From what I've gathered from your videos it doesn't really matter if the BB is threaded or press fit, it's the interface that needs to meet certain quality standards. Those standards seem to be quite a bit higher with press fit, which makes cheaply made bb-shells a lot more noticeable with press fit.
How you can fuck up and get away with aligning 2 threads this badly when it's literally your job, as we see here, I just can't understand. This looks more like some one tried to align it solely through guessing without any tools except the one for cutting the threads.
I'll try and stick with threaded BBs though, at least for now, since a bearing press is just to expensive a tool for the limited use I'd get out of it and cheap tools, in general, are a shitty waste of energy, money and resources.
Good explanations in general with explaining things in your videos, it's almost like a lecture in university just more entertaining and far less sleep inducing. So thanks for that.
Also, pressing a cup in and out of a carbon frame for maintenance will eventually cause wear and shorten the lifespan of the frame, in theory. Aluminum shells maybe less so, but how many companies do that? Not a lot. For the average rider that wants to work on his/her own bike. PF is silly.
A threaded rod, two nuts and some big washers are all you need to press in. That's like 5€ or USD. Add a piece of round wood to tap the old BB out - done.
Bullshit! I’ve had 4 custom alloy frames from 4 separate high end ti and steel US frame builders. All had threaded bottom brackets. One ti frame came from a former maker based out of Saratoga Springs, NY and the other is based out of Steamboat Springs, CO. Both ti framesets had bb’s that multiple high end shops could not stop creaking. Bought a high end alloy steel frameset from a boutique builder based out of Bozeman, MT. Same exact issue, a threaded BB that creaked like a rocking chair. That POS became a wall ornament after 3 years when the drive side chainstay cracked at the BB shell interface. Normal riding, and no unusual abuse either! Then bought a high end steel frame from a high end builder based out of Portland , OR. Frameset had yet another BB that creaked like an old nanny. 4-4, 4 alloy framesets with threaded BB and every one of them was a BB creaking joke. My most silent BB to date? A Gerard Vroomen era Cervelo R3 with a BBright PF style bottom bracket. Frameset is going on 10 years old, the BB has never made a single peep, and the ride blows away any of the wildly overpriced ti or steel custom frames I previously owned. Three years ago I bought a carbon Open Up gravel frameset with a BB386EVO PF style bottom bracket. Not a single noise or issue with that BB in 3 plus years of heavy off-road and muddy gravel riding! None! Dead silent! My current second pure road bike? A carbon BMC Roadmachine with a PF86 style BB. Another carbon road bike that easily outperforms all of the previous alloy frames I owned, and not one noise from its pressed in PF86 style BB in a full year of riding. 3-3 and no bottom bracket noises from any of those CF frames with those “bad” pressed in bottom brackets. You could not pay me at this point to own another alloy based boutique POS frameset from a “supposed” high end custom builder. My CF frames are lighter, climb better, descend better, are actually quiet when hammering, and simply perform better! Hand me a custom alloy frame today, and I’d have it on eBay and craigslist tomorrow for sale. I wouldn’t even give it a single minute of my riding time! Not worth it IMO! 😃
Yeah, I must be the most unlucky alloy frameset owner on the planet, or the real truth is what matters is the actual fabrication quality! Also had a carbon Look 585 years ago with an alloy threaded bb. Tick, tick , tick, tick.... no amount of grease, loctite, or different manufacturer bb’s could shut that thing up either. My experience with many frames is the bb style is wholly irrelevant. What matters is the frame and bb shell fabrication quality. Everything else is white noise. And I’m also a firm believer now that people should not assume that because a so called “boutique” builder charges an arm and a leg for a frameset and they have a limited production run that equals or guarantees fabrication quality because it simply doesn’t. Just because a frameset has a cute cute paint job ir cute polished dropouts in no way guarantees that it has tight/correct tolerances or was actually welded, brazed, or laid up with great alignment, etc..... Those are my own experiences, and everyone else’s may vary! 😃
the guy doesn't know sanded down alu welds, but bashes down cervelo, wonderful!!!! keep it going mate, love it.
Also, a pressfit bb shell that is not very well made can be corrected using your bb, while threaded is much harder to correct
Still, the probability of a well made threaded bottom bracket creaking is lower.
@RollinRat The bottom bracket tap can only reach one side at a time, so it cannot guarantee concentricity. Facing can only make the face of the BB shell perpendicular to the threads. It cannot correct misaligned threads.
So glad I've got a Time VXRS and Look 595-Ultra. Wonderfully built and after more than a decade on the road, no problems at all
I winced at the sight of bunging any BB into an untapped and unfaced shell. If I get to prep the frame, at least any radial clearance and the resulting tension in the cups would be nearer symmetrical. I even took my kids' bikes apart to prep the BB shells, head tubes and crown race seats.
Chasing and Facing misaligned holes will only make the problem worse....It's not the quality of the threads of the face of the metal tube thats the problem...
My longest lasting BB is skf Made square taper one. Last 60 000kms. Last winter killed it because of snow, salt and tons of Rain. I have had road bikes 25 years and never had a creaky BB. They were all Steel frame tho. My favorite bb/crank is shimano octalink dura-ace. Still use it In my carbon road frame.
Damn, well BYE BYE Trek Emonda SLR 7.
Back to looking again comany/bike, narrowed to BMC and LOOK.
thanks for the videos
You want to get a Giant or Canyon pal
That intro was epic. HELLO, HAMBINI FANS!!!!
If cuss words were paints, then UA-cam would be his canvas.
I remember reading how Boardman purposely misalign their bb cups. A mate of mine had a boardman mtb frame, press fit hope bottom bracket for a 30mm spindle, when he put the cranks in they would barely spin
Would be interesting to see the how the data on the tolerance slides has changed after 2 years
I've wanted a Look for years, and your videos have convinced me it would be the right choice. Bravo! (I ride a Cervelo currently!)
My girlfriend often tells me if I'm five years old. I told her about you as an excuse.
Funny, my steel bikes all have correctly aligned bottom brackets. Same with the Head Tubes. Something to be said for the old Cup and Cone BB's, Headsets and Wheel Bearings. Some loose balls in a small Aspirin bottle and some grease and you can rebuild them anywhere in the world.
Threaded bottom brackets are easier to install than press fit.
That's big enough of an advantage for me to stick with threaded.
Watching this video, it wouldn't look as such! XD
@@Nardypants I have two threaded bb frames, a low-end Orbea aqua 2014 and a high-end Ridley Noah Pro 2010. Both threaded, never had any issues. The Ridley eventually was unusable due to the dropouts not being aligned due to wear. The Orbea still is going strong, it's my beater bike to use when I want some offroad fun on a road bike...
@@Ilyas702 I don't even own a press-fit frame, I have a 25 years old Merlin Ti that will last my lifetime. I was making a joke about Hambini fumbling his thread engagement but I guess /whoosh is a thing for a reason.
I made my own pressfit tool with 2 penny washers and a coach bolt and nut. Couldn’t be easier.
I imagine you have the technical prowess of a Halfords cyclecentre bike builder...
i have a bmx bike with press fit American mid bearings and I’ve ridden it hard for 4 years and literally no issues at all. And also they are dead silent no creaking at all, threaded in the other hand i had a dirt jumper with a euro threaded bottom bracket 3 piece crank and they took a shit within a week, the casing got demolished and bearings just scattered all over inside the bb threaded bb aren’t durable at all, they maybe easier to torque in and out but no where as durable as press fits, press fits come in 19mm to 22mm bearings the bearings you’ll find in threaded bb are just a joke compared to press fit bearings
Slight (stress on slight) correction: the reason the bottom bracket tightens the way it does is so that if the bearings seize then it will unthread itself under pedaling forces as opposed to being more likely to stay in. Same idea for pedals
excuse me where is the scale of engineering?? that is the best part 😁 great info as always
It got banned
@@Hambini Bugger. I really liked your scale. There's too much carp pretending to be engineering.
@@Hambini the truth is too powerful
@@Hambini So, now the truth is now a crime? That is total Horseshit!
Jeez, I've got a steel frame bike from the 90's with a threaded square taper bottom bracket and have no problems with the BB. My point is simple technology works without all the problems introduced with complexity as so eloquently pointed out in the Hambini videos. Old school just works.
You should comment on some of the italian brands too (campy, miche, columbus/cinelli)
though they are probably harder to find in england
He said a video about campy was coming soon
@@sinuosalice-1434 cant wait!
I have ridden Campagnolo on a Colango C40 (threaded record cartridge BB and now super record ultra torque), Pinarello aluminium Prince (threaded BB with record BB) Pinarello carbon Prince (ultra torque BB) and a Pinarello Dogma F8 (ultra torque cups on threaded BB threads as for the Prince) and not once in 20 years of owning these bikes I have never had a creak or any issues. So long as they are installed and then torqued properly, they are absolutely bomb proof.
@@DrJRMCFC ….....Same here! I am a 'big time' Campag fan [so clearly biased] but I have used Super Record, Record and Chorus group sets for almost 30years and never once had any issues. Campag BB's are the donkey's bollocks IMHO.
I was lucky to get my hands on cervelo s3 from 2010-11 with threaded BB and my cranks do spin like mister Hambini himself created those threads in that chunk of aluminium, perfect.
I fucking love Hambini. I also love threaded bottom brackets and wouldn’t buy a frame without threads.
The perfect clip to end my day. Thanks Hambini!
Can't wait for a pragma review.
/Serious.
Have a lot of time for both Harley, and Hambini's views on the world.
OMG. From 12 min time mark begins the juicy engineering stuff. LOVE IT.
Did I miss the campagnolo video?
Fair play to you H. The design process may be more expensive but surely it saves money in the long run by eliminating returns, great vid
@Hambini, how do you rate Focus in this world of tolerance disasters . To my knowledge they are owned by the same association as our IT12 heroes Cervelo. Greetings from an engineering colleague from Aachen, Germany.
I own a LOOK KG 361 and am very happy to hear that LOOK has good bottom bracket tolerances. My bike may have a threaded BB but I'm not racing. I also have a aluminum Orbea with a threaded bottom bracket. If I were still racing and had the money I'd use a press fit bike. This was interesting from an engineering standpoint but won't apply to the majority of cyclists. Thanks.
Why's your logo a beaver??
As always, It is a pleasure to watch your videos. I learn a lot and I amuse as well. I appreciate your time and effort in making them. Thanks!
Thank you very much!
Hi hambini, do you have some sort of information about Merida's manufacture quality? :)
Good question, i was just thinking this while watching.
Same factory as Specialized.
@@fastestmilkman3840 I think they own something like 49% of specialized. I genuinely had a "sales man" in a specialized concept store tell me Merida weren't any good, both brand and quality. I'm also sure I read somewhere the only thing specialized own the tooling for is bidons, everything else is just badged up but that could be wrong. All pointless and random but hey.
@@johnmac9995 I think the 49% is 20 years ago and I think (cant confirm) they pretty much own most of them. To be honest most of the bike brands (including Pina/colnago) are made in either China or Taiwan, they then farm out the lower end to other countries such as Cambodia/Vietnam/other sub factories in China. The mark up is enormous and like everything else we are paying for their marketing budget.
Random story - Five years ago I when for a factory visit in for my work (not related to cycling), we split into two teams to save time (i was in Shanghai and he was in Xiamen )and my work mate actually stumbled across the factory that produce one of the top brands (lets say the one with the most history, based in EU) and he ended up getting himself two frames. The only caveat is that he cant have any of the existing colour scheme and no warranty (but QC checked).
To say I was pissed off at him when i found out would be an understatement...
@@fastestmilkman3840 I think Specialized bought back some ownership from Merida and many Specialized bikes are made by fuji-ta. In fact if you look at a recent video from the fuji-ta factory you can see Specialized bikes on the production line and they clearly state they make Specialized bikes. Of course it could well be split with lower end models made by fuji-ta and higher end by Merida.
LMAO !!!! Informative, brilliant, and says it as it is.......saved me a fortune on looking over new/used bikes, so when you're ever in Wales, I owe you a pint, or your family a free photo shoot. Nice one.
This is an old vid, but thank you for helping my understanding no end. As someone who understands stats more than engineering, does the parallel misalignment slide have a reference, or is this your own work? Are there an equal number of samples for each box and whisker plot, and if not how do sample sizes vary? What do the whiskers denote (this is unfortunately not standardised, although usually the respective quartile + 1.5 times IQR)? Cheers
Love you man and now with your new civilized productions (I liked the old ones too) I can watch them in the living room :😃
What is the “sample size” on your “Current levels of Shiteness” chart?
It appears that each individual observation is represented by a little circle in the colored bars. But I'm not Hambini. Just guessing.
At least 10
@@Hambini That's less than I expected. Probably the reason why Canyon is not doing that bad on this graph 🤪
@@petrcivela9413 Plenty of my friends and ppl I know swear Canyon´s technical service is excelent. Yet on my book, this is suspicious.. how come they all needed it? Most people don´t need the warranty of a car.. a far more complicated machine!
@@aitorbleda8267 they have a lot of mediocre but tolerable frames.
I ride a Pinarello with a threaded BB. Up to this moment, I congratulated myself for buying a superior product because the BB does not creak. Haha - I just got taken to school again by Hambini!
you probably did not notice tiny drag either
must go and change my underpants after that opening scream
Many, many years ago when the rear sprocket cluster held the racket & screwed directly onto the hub before cassettes came along. The axles had screw-on bearing cones with the cups in the ends of the hubs where the drive side would obviously be considerably offset. I had mid-range Campag hubs & on 2 occasions, I removed the skewers to find the sodding axle had snapped! The bearings were more or less inline with the spoke flanges - a really poor design that eventually got sorted with freehubs having a 3rd out-board bearing in the freehub.
The fun with this system is that you had to align both cones on the axle carefully for the rim to be centred in the dropouts. I'd leave a bit of play when tightening down the cone locking collars so when the skewers were done up, the play was taken out - just.
Hey, how did you "solve" this? Or is this a dead end?
I think he said he was developing it for threaded, but it’s going to be a problem I bet. May be easier to recut proper threading first which would enlarge the opening but then he can custom make matching threaded caps to the larger OD. Everything then on will be aligned perfectly.
When it's that badly out, it's a new frame
@@Hambini Could the frame be line-bored and install a bigger standard of BB? Probably screws up carbon, and might leave any aluminium too thin.
@@Hambini My city bike has a threaded Italian thread misaligned BB. My "solution" was to use a good quality thread together BB. Now it runs really well, and has very very little wobble/apparent missalignement. Still not ideal, but I did that 1200Km ago and the bearings are still silky smooth. TBF, the missalignement was less than 1mm (measured 0,5mm with crude tools)
Hard to see how it was manufactured this badly, can't see how it could be fixed
Refreshing, revealing, funny and beautifully delivered. 'fucking shit' is language I understand. Thanks man.
Great vid but, did I miss something? Was looking forward to the "correction"... Did you make a solution? Was this just an demonstration/example of poor QA?
i am asking the same. That is why i watched this video and i got no answer: Lost money and useless frame? +je
yeah those are welds that are ground down. It's pretty common practice on budget frames to grind down the headset weld for consumer vanity, and leave the bb welds for the cost save
When accountants start taking over manufacturing, quality goes down the drain.
People blame accountants for bad management. Stop it.
It was a production manager or a HR manager that decided to devalue experience and good workmanship to favor "cost effectiveness".
How do I know? I have worked both sides.
Love the presentations. I have used a few of your previous videos words on my teenager -priceless. For us Fat Wankers - especially for MTB - is that iso threaded BB's are preferred is that you 10000 cdn investment does not creak. When we really should not care about an extra watt or two loss when we have 30 lbs to loose - the creak is our main enemy. Also we can change them easier.
Points well taken - I have your BB's on my dream list for the super bike.... that I do not need.
I now have a Hambini BB 30 to Shimano BB which is a thing of beauty and almost too good looking to install. I’ve put 600 ish miles on it now and have zero creaks and squeaks.
I must though draw attention to another often overlooked factor during crank installation and that’s proper torquing and greasing/lubing of the spindle and non drive side spindle/crank interface to avoid potential creaking. I swear by Morgan Blue Aquaproof paste. This stuff is really thick and sticky and doesn’t wash out. I use it on fastener threads too where I would have used Copper Slip in the past. Great also for Headsets...just never ever use it in your hubs!!
It seems to me that the main reason people became aware of PF BB issues is because of noise issues. Creaking, etc. For the most part, with the absence of any noise, this topic of problems with PF BBs would likely never have become such a big issue.
When I ride I find any unusual noises coming from the drive train, or from other parts of the bike, highly irritating. These noises prompt me to search for the source of the noise(s) and try to eliminate the problem.
Now, as folks say, "Ignorance is bliss". In other words if I don't hear unwanted noise, or have some other tactile indication of a problem, then in my mind there ain't no problem.
Perhaps a PF BB is, or can be, superior to a threaded BB, but for many of us weight saving and/or efficiency of a BB is of less importance than having a quiet BB.
I'm an old guy (75 years old), ride 3000 to 5000 miles per year, and bought my first derailleur bike in 1969. I own steel bikes, 1 carbon bike and several alloy bikes. When I ride I do so for pleasure (and fitness). I don't care about saving a few, or several watts. But nothing takes the fun out of riding like hearing some unusual or unwanted noise emanating from somewhere on a bicycle.
For me, a threaded BB just makes more sense. Not to mention the ease of maintenance of a threaded BB as opposed to PF.
I know people whose solution to a noisy bike is to wear headphones.
Thank you for the very informative content. I've been following you for quite some time now, and i have never seen a mention regarding Campagnolo Ultratorque cranksets, or any other Campagnolo component. What is your experience with them?
coming next week.
I have an old Lemond frame (Bilato brothers built) and had a small misalignment but found that not screwing in the drive side all the way and then screwing the offside in and it worked great with very little friction added.
Thanks for the video, personally I prefer the threaded bb because of ease of replacement (dont need to invest money in different tools)
Got lucky with my cannondale mtb. 83mm wide shell and its aligned. Bearings have lasted 18months now. First set that came with the bike was cheap crap
Except for one Trek, I've only owned Cannondale road bikes. The press fits have been a 2013 SuperSix and currently a 2018. I have not had any issues with either. The 2013 creaked when I had it about a year. My bike shop (different from the one I bought it from) fixed it and I never had any issues. My 2018 creaked about a month ago but it was the spider ring on the Cannondale crankset. It was torqued back down and has been good as new. Watching his videos though, I did give it a spin test without the chain on it and it spun very smoothly and freely. I guess I've been lucky too.
Best video yet, especially since I have that same bike adv 8.9, it creaks and it’s crap 💩
8:32 ‘hit me daddy, hit me!’ ❤️❤️
Is there any reason why they can’t bore bb and headsets out to size before they let them out of the factory other than saving 60 seconds of machining?
You said it. If they sell them for 50$ materials included.. well, the margins are quite low. Then they charge us 1200$.
You can't machine carbon fiber.
@@firesurfer I have done.
I've just bought a crank with a 30mm aluminium axle (73mm threaded shell) for my mtb. I had my doubts but thought it must be OK as the designers know better than me. Looks like someone else had my thoughts. Looks like I'll have to rub some moly paste on the axle and hope for the best!
0:01 - That greeting... Deffo on the spectrum there... :)
Thought he'd been electrocuted this time!
I have already learnt to turn the volume down at that point.
Hydro forming, high pressure fluid in a mould I believe is how you get the shape at the front.
Hmmm...ever thought of being a hand model?
For brick laying tools...
Enjoy your stuff. I was a bicycle mechanic in a former career, my motto is "never use your hands as a hammer" Cheers!
"Swearing is Northern English for emphasis"
John McLeod : Give us northerners a break, southerners already think we can't communicate properly.
Geoff Buck : You must have missed my quotation marks. I was quoting Hambini
John McLeod : what I was trying to say was that heavy 'effing & blinding' is not typically northern, and that as a northerner I don't like hambini implying that swearing an integral part of being northern. That's my opinion , and you may not agree... Take care in these weird days.
Geoff Buck you’re wrong mate, us northerners swear like fuck! 😂
Spot-on for many aspects. In all the normal cases in all mech industries, bearings are "directly mounted" in a bore. Mech Engineering 101 tells you that threads are not a positioning element.... a bike can survive with it since threads play allow to absorb geometrical errors...
You should add on top of that that the fine threading of BSA adequate for steel and basically a friction fit in 6061 aluminium.... It's almost inevitable to mess up this threading when installing the BB.
So, please start a bike company. Now.
I would if I had an interest. I don't even like bikes, I just post videos for hilarity.
😂👍🏻
Bike frame with Hambini bottom bracket bonded in during manufacturing. I would probably fuck that bottom bracket hole. Actually not because I wouldn't fit into the bearing bore 😬
But seriously, some Hambini triathlon frame would be like 20000 pounds anyway...
Name would be Kuntish Bikes
I would ride them with pride. 😎
Threaded BB are the best there is. Easy to install and cheap. The Shimano threaded BB shells will spin lighter after a few hundred km's so you didnt show a realistic image in my opinion.
Also threaded frames are being straighted out with a special tool so you have a perfect fit on the frame (something you didnt mention) it's called a bottom bracket facer.
Also don't forget that pressfit can have the same issues if it isn't faced propperly.
I work as a race/mountainbike mechanic for 15 years now and that Dura Ace crankset turns normally. If you had put it in a Pressfit frame with a BB41-71 (as an example) it would performe the exact same. (With a good frame ofcourse:)
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Do these problems continue into alloy MTB frames or carbon road/mtb frames?
Right. I think the true take away is design won't guaranty proper construction. One Hambini to rule them all.
A bonded aluminium sleeve should be well aligned as it's probably turned In a lathe on one fixing and there's no welding involved to warp it. I have 2 older carbon frames, one threaded (Gir's) and one BB30 (Felt), both with bonded aluminium sleeves and no problems. Of course there's the weight and cost of manufacturing to consider.
I am a short man. I have narrow hips. I need cranks with narrow Q factors or I suffer knee pain. The 68 mm works well for me. Crank manufacturers do not think about making different width cranks for smaller people. I am 160 cm tall. I bring this up for you to consider when designing bottom brackets. You seem to use existing designs for your bottom brackets. But you manufacture to a much higher standard.
Nice to hear you give Hongfu/Dengfu a decent wrap.
Those Fiskars shovels are soo light, make shifting dirt so much more a pleasure. Couldn't believe a BB could be so far out . Shocking. Respect to your hammer hand should have taken a shovel to it.
Most important Hambini vid 👍
Looking forward to buying one Hambini BSA BB once available for my Cannondale Topstone ;)
Reverse threading prevents over tightening/ceasing by the pedaling forces, not prevention over the BB I threading. Same for pedals but the rotation at the pedal spindle is opposite. Check the rotations.
Nice video and presentation.
The fit quality of press fit BB rest on the quality of the pressing tool. BSA and tool of BB30 were machine out both are subject to variations.
So I have a mountain bike frame with a BSA 68 / BSA 73 Power Spline bottom bracket.
I thought about changing this to a Dub bottom bracket and a new crank.
Did I understand it correctly, that doing so would be the big **avoid** from this video?
Is Power Spline better than this and what would be an upgrade in this case?