@@joemckim1183Being a fireman in New York City, then moving to the Chicago Housing Projects and moving back to New York to open McDowells. Let’s not forget getting half his foot chopped off for escaping.
That’s Andy Buckley. He’s a part-time actor but a full time financial advisor. I worked at a brokerage and looked him up on the CRD system. No complaints against him. Took all of my will not to call David Wallace.
Something I like about the Admiral's speech is that he hits on an important thing; change is disruptive. People don't adapt to it right away and it can often be scary. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen. Because down the line, people will adapt. That change won't be disruptive and people will stop questioning it.
The only thing I would add is that changes that don't make things better are counterproductive. In this case though, excluding a certain group of people based on their sexuality has the end result of reducing the pool of soldiers, sailors, and airmen, some of whom will no doubt turn out to be exceptional in their jobs.
In the 1970s a significant number of West Point cadets said they would leave the service if women were admitted to the Academy, but when women were admitted, there was no mass exodus. What people fear is often very different from what actually happens.
It would also depend on the speed and regularity of the change, you have to give people time to adapt to new things. Institutions, societies, militaries, communities can all change at a certain speed and things will be OK in the long run. At the opposite end of the spectrum is something like 1984 where so much changes daily that no-one knows how to act and it's used as tool of control. Change is necessary, too much change too quickly is ultimately destructive.
They wear the uniform, they do the training, they pick up a weapon and put their ass on the line. What they do with their ass when they're off duty is their business. Respect to all who serve. Thank you.
Robert Mac: I agree. If someone wants to put their life on the line to protect me and my family, I'll just say thank you. It's not like they are asking me to be homosexual as well. Hell, I don't even care if they are supporters of Trump. They will still get my thanks.
Josephs Mantle: If you are against homosexuality, then don't be gay. If you do not want to work along side a homosexual, I suggest working alone. But how can you expect others to live by the standards of your religion when those others may have a different religious belief? My God has no problem with homosexuality. Are you suggesting that everyone has to obey your specific religious beliefs and interpretations? Sounds a bit arrogant and sad.
I loved John Amos. He was never typecast either, playing all SORTS of characters. I even liked his role in the second Die Hard movie, when he leaned over and slit that guy's throat.
What I like about this is he's introduced to a new Congressman, and he knows who he is. Senior military officials are political animals, and make sure to know who the members are.
When he's with Leo and asks if he changed shampoo, as his hair looks more bouncy and more manageable and Leo says he likes to look good for him. Kills me! Haha
This from 99 right? Before the US went and got 2 million people killed with their war on terror. That was a relatively decent era of US military policy from what I know. Didn't cause as much bloodshed.
@@brianjungen4059 Bloodthirsty attacks against countries that weren't behind the attacks and their civilian populations doesn't absolve the US of responsibility. Over a million deaths caused by those two wars of blind fury according to Brown university's accounting.
Pete Milkman I miss this show so much... And I would vote for any of their fake candidates in a heartbeat over some of the fools we see these days, lol
+Bayougirl78 The only candidate who seems even remotely like anyone on this show, albeit minus a bit of the wit, is Bernie Sanders. A lot of his speeches and policies he's put forth and passed mirror those of some of the rhetoric of Jed Bartlet. Sadly, he's far fetched for a possible election. He's not as good a politician as others or as the fictional Jed.
ajs1031 You're right in everything. And his take on taxes and penalties are directly from what we'd want to see from Jed Bartlet. It's actually hilarious. How about Rob Lowe's speech about how school's should be free and should be palaces, yet he "just can't figure out how to do it yet." Bernie figured out how to do it.
In Army training I was assigned a gay roommate, I was 90% sure before he told me he was on day 1. My response was "Not a problem with me. I sometimes sleepwalk so sorry in advance if I start bumping around at night." I didn't care who he slept with on his own time and as long as he was an alright guy and not a screw up everything was good.
Marine Corps here, the problem with gays is you can't have romantic relationships in the Victor Units (whether opposite sex or same sex). If you do it at work, it affects job performance and people can get fired. If you do that Infantry, people get killed.
@@fenrisulven5324 - "(whether opposite sex or same sex) " - so not a problem with gays, just a problem with guys who can't keep their willys in their pants.
@@fenrisulven5324 How is that a problem? You think gays are gonna try and sleep with everyone? If any soldier can't keep it in their pants then clearly they aren't responsible to do the job. Don't see it a problem unless you're saying gays are hypersexual and can't resist being around other men.
Something I love about Sam is that he is obviously very passionate about this topic and it clearly shows in that he doesn’t need to look at notes for the people who have been wronged, he knows their names and stories by heart and can rattle them off without hesitation.
Sam is Passionate about everything even if he doesn't believe in it fully, he respects the office and everything that goes with it or at least the president
@@utube1818 I agree that it’s good acting on Rob’s part, but it was also just so smartly directed and written that Sam, this guy who probably has ten meetings a day, is able to rattle off this information from memory because it’s that ingrained and important to him. This show has so many subtle yet intelligent decisions like that.
Served in the USAF before dont ask dont tell was done away with. Worked with Men and Women who we all knew were Gay and some that I found out afterwards and Ill die on this hill they were some of the best most honorable humans I had the privilege of serving with. It opened my eyes and made me a better person.
I like how he lost his appetite for the Danish in the end. You could tell Fitzwallace was disappointed in the soldiers, even if he kept calm and delivered his response with grace and poise.
It's 2023 and that scene was more relevant than ever as the courts seem more and more willing to revert back to policies allowed when this scene was filmed. It's not about drag shows today, just like it was never about drinking fountains or where you sat on a bus back in the 50's and 60's.
You’re right to some degree, except when you introduce children into the mix. I can’t endorse or condone a man dressed as a woman saying or displaying sexual innuendos in front of kids.
We had a guy in our unit that could pull off being " swish" in fatigues. He made Ginger look " Butch". He was killed in Desert Storm saving his comrades, he was one hell of a medic.
@@thor7856 Perhaps he just doesn't want to engage with a coward who probably cosplays in fatigues, and sully the name of his mate by telling someone who's likely never served, or won't ever serve...
The connection is that last line isn't just a throwaway from Fitz. Black slaves were routinely beaten with sticks if their master was displeased. He directly connected homophobia to slavery.amd racism.
Yeah, he decided to go literal with that remark. Sam rattling off cases of Marines, Air Force, Navy and cadets then fuckin snowflake Gold Leaf wants to be a smartass cause they weren't specifically Army. Guy's a douche.
@@SGTBizarro if he had said that 30 seconds later with Fitz in the room he is busted back to Private and given a dishonourable. He didn't know how lucky he was.
@@DavidHeffron78 It wouldn't have. I like the West Wing but it's a stary eye liberal masturbation marathon fully of flawless mary-sue characters people like to gush over.
Rest In Peace John Amos. I find it interesting two of the more prominent characters you played, James Evans and Admiral Percy Fitzwallace, were killed over the course of both Good Times and the West Wing.
As someone who’s serving in the Navy, I relate to this scene a lot. I don’t give a damn about my fellow sailors’ races, genders, and gender orientations; all I care about is that we can count on each other when shit hits the fan and that we can stand together as one.
@@thor7856 something tells me you live on your parents basement with a comment like that. Shut the fuck up troll. You haven't seen a "firefight" passed Call of Duty.
@@thor7856 And how long have you served in the military or have you ever even put on the uniform before? Don’t take your comfort for granted there sonny boy, men and women have bled and even died on the frontline so weasels like you can have the life and liberty to shit-talk others. For the reason of willing to put their lives on the line to guard our way of living alone, those who serve and served should always be deserving of our respect, regardless of their background and gender orientation. Think about this when you go to sleep tonight.
@@thor7856 Do you realise that some of the most elite, that see fire fights up close and personal... are navy? do you know what devgru is? or do i need to dumb it down to terms like seal team 6?
I love this moment! When The West Wing first aired on TV I watched it with my parents, but I was a high schooler and I think I missed a lot of the meaning within the quick-witted dialogue. I really should go back and watch it again because I think I'd have a better understanding of it and a greater appreciation for it now.
I am more than 20 years older than when I watch TWW on free to air TV. I now watch via DVD (have all 7 seasons) and the hearing is a little less effective so I have the subtitles on - I am surprised at what I missed 20 years ago. Cheers
Everyone on this show is food driven. Josh and CJ with General Tso’s chicken, Ainsley a bit of an omnivore, going for anything left in the mess. But the President leads the pack. The long description of cheese gnocchi, tomato saltambique, his personal recipe for chili, not to mention his phone call to the butterball hot line. Even Toby watched Julia Child, and Leo followed cooking shows.
JohnAmos brought a lot of gravitas to that role. I love how he sounds like he agrees with the two officers, then points out how that was true of blacks like him, then turns it around! A great point. Beat that with a stick, lol
This episode has been my favorite so far (currently barely into season 2). The ending really just built up so much momentum that continued throughout the next few episodes.
@@angusperson4222 I didn't actually end up watching past near the ending of season 2 (maybe one day), but it had some really insane moments that are still good and fairly shocking even today early in the season, and later some pretty heart felt discourse on some serious subjects. Being general as to avoid spoilers.
It is saying something given that just about every recurring character in The West Wing was their own kind of brilliant. John Amos stood out in a crowd of heavyweight actors and actresses and I was so sad when they killed off Fitz because I genuinely loved his character.
@@cashcleaner DUDE! the idea of this show, but focus on the national security side over the politics side. im almost annoyed at you for suggesting a spin-off that will never happen lol
+antourte1 When I think of how many years I needed after watching that episode as it originally aired before I got the true context of that gesture, I want to find a way to kick myself.
@@Rob774 Yeah... I feel that: "Step out of line, son, and I will straight up MURDER your ass..." Any one who was watching that or watched after got seriously scared for life.
And to think how in the show it was assumed that there was no way that gays could serve openly in the military. Under President Obama, he has made that pipe dream a reality. I guess small people like Sarah Palin would mock that as "hopey changy."
@@danieldickson8591 if your referring to the Trump administration( your comment say 1 year ago, but it doesn't say the exact date so i am assuming) they didn't reverse the don't ask don't tell position, what the Trump Administration did was repeal Obama's executive order he issued later in his presidency that allowed trans gender soldiers to serve and to allow trans gender soldiers who had been discharged for that reason to reenlist.
Disabled VietNam vet here. I served with a few guys EVERYONE knew were gay, damn good sailors, and even better corpsman. I'm sure the "gut shot" marine didn't give a shitt if they were gay!
The character "Sam Seaborn" issued an historic question/statement about gays in the military -- not just by a character in a TV show, but also *representing* real life politics towards to the anti-gay Republican establishment(_I don't remember verbtim, but here's the gist_): "Why is it that it's only gays who must adhere to a *hands off policy* regarding their sexuality when yoiu people swept the 'Tailhook Scandal' under the rug?" Feel free to look it up (_it's worded differently because I don't remember word for word_). And take note of the meaning of what he said in this episode.
@@ictpilot no one was found guilty or disciplined for the sexual assaults and few of the senior military branch leaders were disciplined or prosecuted, such as Kelso, who were shown to have been aware of the behavior at the Tailhook conventions and had done little-to-nothing to stop it.
@@zax2004 I beg to differ. I was in the Navy during the time and it was put out that if you were a senior member of tailhook, your military career was in jeopardy if you didn't resign from a tailhook position. Anybody that had anything connected with tail hook their careers were in jeopardy but you never heard that put out publicly. Several military mass and Court martials were conducted which led to firings and forced retirements of senior officers. Also several officers careers and reputations were damaged a irreparably just because they were there and did nothing else.
@@zax2004 I suggest you do a little more research specifically there's a gentleman that was there and he wrote an article for San Diego Union you might want to read that. And like I said,we had the briefings during a weekend drill about tail hook and was told you better not be associated with this organization if you value your career.
I never understood how something like that would disrupt a unit. You are there fighting in a war, seeing friends die, ready to kill others to not let that happen. You experience unimaginable pain, suffering, and poverty while exhausting yourself beyond the limits of your body and mind. But if the guy next to you likes men that's too much.
I love his tactic here, because he reflects and affirms their perspectives and prejudices, regarding gays in the military. Highlighting their arguments and support for the specifici perspective. Then he expertly dismantles their entire argument using precadence and personal experience. He does it so matter of factedly and doubles down with affirmation of their argument that it "will disrupt the cohesion of the unit", and then adds the long term effect, that the unit will adapt and evolve to this change, they "will get over it." It further highlights that a system like the military that is so settled within one "cohesion" is also easily prone to breakdown. That the success and performance of the system is built upon it's ability to adapt to challenge and change. For those systems who are willing to adapt are the ones that will ultimately survive and thrive, while those that main strict stability will eventually falter.
Three keys to being gay in the MILITARY (ESP. THE MARINES) it worked for me: 1. Ignore the shit out of homophobes to the point of them seeming to not exist to you, they hate this for some reason, it enrages them. When they speak or arrive in a room give them no attention at all. 2. Make all your close friends outside of your unit 3. Make sure your commanding officer knows you are no-nonsense when it comes to work ethic 4. Go to school and prep for your career outside of the military because they may not re-enlist you unless you are very attractive resume wise 5. Repeat step 1 when you are off base because it further enrages the homophobes and they will start befriending you when they realize that you are human and can have straight friends whom you don't disrespect sexually or otherwise.
The Spartans practiced homosexuality amongst their troops. There was absolutely no lack of unit cohesion there. They actually found it worked the opposite, and built unit solidarity and cohesion. Ounce for ounce the greatest fighting force ever to take the field in the ancient world.
+Darth Zed Very true. It was also considered manly as shit to cry when your brothers in arms died. If you didn't you were considered an insensitive baby. How times change.
+Darth Zed The same was true for the samurai whom we all know was also some of the most fearsome warriors to ever walk the planet. Another less famous unit that was actually completely homosexual was the Sacred Band of Thebes. A unit consisting of 150 male homosexual pairs that formed an elite core of the army of Thebes. They were eventually defeated and killed to the last man by Philip II of Macedon long after the rest of their army had fallen. When Philip realized who the fallen were he wept and erected a memorial in their honour.
+Darth Zed Eh... I'd disagree that they were the greatest fighting force of the ancient world. That's simply too broad of a blanket statement to make. Like any military, they had their ups and downs.
Spartans were great infantry, but their cavarly arm was weak. The Corinthians were able to exploit that. But whatever faults the Spartan military had, "not tough enough" and "not cohesive enough" certainly weren't among them.
Think about this: Doris Miller an African American sailor, won the Navy Cross for his actions at Pearl Harbor. He was a cook at the time; one of the few positions available for AA sailors in the nation's navy. When he died in action in 1943, he was still a cook. 67 years later an African American man is now Secretary of Defense, the highest civilian position in the military. Beat that with a stick.
@@Glitchfaction the law says it's not a issue but to many still get kicked out because they are gay. The offical reason in the file can be from not following orders to not to fit into military life-(english not my mother lanuage)... That can come from the unit CO to high as some old minded general who thinks gays are not to be trusted with a stright man's back.
You're not the only one who misses it. I've spent, like, an hour now rewatching random scenes of the show here on YT, and I want the show to come back. Please?
And now we have the same argument with trans soldiers. Let's see if the people who get it with black soldiers, gay soldiers, can pick up the ball and keep running with it 💪
Who was pissed when they killed off Fitzwallace? I was bummed and livid at the same time. I always thought if they ever did a continuation, he would have been VP with Santos instead of Leo, and eventually President.
It's probably from the European DVDs of the show. UK/etc. TV runs at 25 frames per second, but most TV shows are shot at 24 frames per second. European DVDs usually just speed up the show to match. It's not a lot, but some people notice it. I do, for sure.
Aaron Sorkin had to stop working on the Newsroom because he was taking so much shit, as I recall. And that was pre 2016. I couldn't even imagine him trying to do something now.
Did I just realize that Sam talks through half his mouth? My younger brother did it and it made it harder to hear him since he mumbled a lot so I guess I spotted it out of reflex.
Also in the Navy, I 100% agree. The key thing with the SEAL thing is as you said though, no special treatment. That means the same physical standards as the men should be required. As long as people, men or women, can meet those standards then I don't see any reason they should be denied, as they can only help the team. Once you lower the bar for any reason, however, that's when people get put in danger.
@DeadEnd2109 So, this guy you're arguing with...if we took a shot everytime he says "bizarre, incorrect behaviour," how drunk would we be at this point? I wonder if he knows that repeating the phrase doesn't make it sound any better.
The same people who want to deny gay people rights would be denying black people rights if given the chance, at least their grandparents thought that way. Prejudice of any kind isn't acceptable.
It took so long, it was going to be the end of life as we know, the military structure was going to collapse, no one would join up. Then, overnight it changed. The rules were changed and nothing happened, life moved on. Respect to all who serve.
I'm just a lowly SFC, but if anyone of any rank had the audacity to tell me ANY of my Soldiers weren't "our guys," I'd be getting court-martialed for assault. That shit would not stand.
@@thor7856 I've never heard that insult before. /s Tell me how scary it was dodging guard duty by sleeping in the motor pool, sweetheart. Bet you had dental appointments every time real work walked out of Top's office, too.
I'm a huge fan of the show and have seen most episodes at least twice. I can't speak to the technical side of webgeek6's question, but even if the clip was uploaded without alteration, I could swear that it is still playing back at a speed faster than when it originally aired. It's not a big deal because the content is still unaltered, but it is too fast.
I want to give my opinion as a former U.S. Army soldier. Whether you are gay, straight, bi, whatever the hell pansexual is, or whatever your sexuality might be. I dont care. So long as it does not get in the way of your duty then it's none of my business. Love is love is love. No if and or buts. HOWEVER... The argument against transsexuals is not that anyone is uncomfortable serving with them or that anyone thinks they can do their job at any lower of a standard ( I'm aware some people feel that way, but they dont deserve to serve this country). The issue is when transsexuals join the military and they find ways for the military to have to pay for gender reassignment surgery. Should you wish to do that it should be on your own dime. Joining the military to have that surgery is not good for them or their fellow servicemen.
"It's an honor to meet you, Admiral."
"I imagine it would be, yes."
WINNING.
It's quite impressive that he went from owning a chain of McDowell's restaurants to being an Admiral in the Navy.
Ha! David Wallace from the Office.
@@joemckim1183Being a fireman in New York City, then moving to the Chicago Housing Projects and moving back to New York to open McDowells. Let’s not forget getting half his foot chopped off for escaping.
That’s Andy Buckley. He’s a part-time actor but a full time financial advisor. I worked at a brokerage and looked him up on the CRD system. No complaints against him. Took all of my will not to call David Wallace.
I was just hoping someone would come with a hatefull comment so that I could respond with 'wining!' !
Something I like about the Admiral's speech is that he hits on an important thing; change is disruptive. People don't adapt to it right away and it can often be scary. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen. Because down the line, people will adapt. That change won't be disruptive and people will stop questioning it.
The only thing I would add is that changes that don't make things better are counterproductive. In this case though, excluding a certain group of people based on their sexuality has the end result of reducing the pool of soldiers, sailors, and airmen, some of whom will no doubt turn out to be exceptional in their jobs.
In the 1970s a significant number of West Point cadets said they would leave the service if women were admitted to the Academy, but when women were admitted, there was no mass exodus. What people fear is often very different from what actually happens.
It would also depend on the speed and regularity of the change, you have to give people time to adapt to new things. Institutions, societies, militaries, communities can all change at a certain speed and things will be OK in the long run. At the opposite end of the spectrum is something like 1984 where so much changes daily that no-one knows how to act and it's used as tool of control.
Change is necessary, too much change too quickly is ultimately destructive.
So, did bus end up serving in Bartlet’s military?
@@Generalscorpio I resent your contention the military is some sassy batch of panzis that are slow to adapt to things
They wear the uniform, they do the training, they pick up a weapon and put their ass on the line. What they do with their ass when they're off duty is their business.
Respect to all who serve. Thank you.
Robert Mac thank you!!
Robert Mac well said sir.
Josephs_Mantle I I hope you don't eat any lobster or pork or wear clothes made of more than one fabric. Hope you've never done any work on a Sunday.
Robert Mac: I agree. If someone wants to put their life on the line to protect me and my family, I'll just say thank you. It's not like they are asking me to be homosexual as well. Hell, I don't even care if they are supporters of Trump. They will still get my thanks.
Josephs Mantle: If you are against homosexuality, then don't be gay. If you do not want to work along side a homosexual, I suggest working alone. But how can you expect others to live by the standards of your religion when those others may have a different religious belief? My God has no problem with homosexuality. Are you suggesting that everyone has to obey your specific religious beliefs and interpretations? Sounds a bit arrogant and sad.
Casting John Amos in that role was a stroke of genius. An actor who could bring gravitas to a thankless role in Good Times is one hell of an actor.
I loved John Amos. He was never typecast either, playing all SORTS of characters. I even liked his role in the second Die Hard movie, when he leaned over and slit that guy's throat.
And of course his stellar performance as Seth in The Beastmaster.
Never met someone more opposed to gays in the military than those who had never been in combat
There’s certainly a few of those guys creeping around here. Imagine being a grown adult and caring about whether someone is gay or straight.
@@cashcleaner You don't care when enemy fire is coming at you. You only care that they are holding down their section of the line.
And most of the time, our military isn't in 'combat'! Therefore, you and your SJWs can go work at Amazon.
I know they exist but the generic grunt doesn’t care if you like meat or are a vegan if you’re a trustworthy part of the unit
@@sacredhealstv901 as a combat vet couldn’t give a shit if your gay as long as your covering my ass in combat
“It’s an honor to meet you sir!” “Yes, I imagine it would be.”
FUCKIN FITZ. This show was just full of classy, mic-dropping side characters.
Love ❤️ Fitz! Love this show. Re-watching right now, I do that every 2-3yrs.
What I like about this is he's introduced to a new Congressman, and he knows who he is. Senior military officials are political animals, and make sure to know who the members are.
When he's with Leo and asks if he changed shampoo, as his hair looks more bouncy and more manageable and Leo says he likes to look good for him. Kills me! Haha
I love when he walks in and the military dudes freak out that he's there
We can officially change dropping the mic... to dropping the danish
Kurt V oh yeah if they are in the US in dark times
He picks it up, takes one bite with his mouth, and then drops the rest of it back on the plate. .
“I’m an admiral in the US Navy and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Beat that with a stick.”
That’s my America!
This from 99 right? Before the US went and got 2 million people killed with their war on terror. That was a relatively decent era of US military policy from what I know. Didn't cause as much bloodshed.
and the implied "...as a black man" is not stated. Meaning, the Chairman also believes a gay person could also be a Chairman of the JCS as well.
@@svankensenso we started that? Not guys flying planes into buildings and shit? Huh…..
@@brianjungen4059 Bloodthirsty attacks against countries that weren't behind the attacks and their civilian populations doesn't absolve the US of responsibility. Over a million deaths caused by those two wars of blind fury according to Brown university's accounting.
@@svankensen ok. sure. 🙄🤦♂️
Fitz was one of my favorites of the more minor, sideline characters on this show....So witty, intelligent, and a bit of a smartass at times
+Bayougirl78 Every character on the show was witty, intelligent, and a bit of a smartass at times. :)
Pete Milkman
I miss this show so much... And I would vote for any of their fake candidates in a heartbeat over some of the fools we see these days, lol
+Bayougirl78 The only candidate who seems even remotely like anyone on this show, albeit minus a bit of the wit, is Bernie Sanders. A lot of his speeches and policies he's put forth and passed mirror those of some of the rhetoric of Jed Bartlet. Sadly, he's far fetched for a possible election. He's not as good a politician as others or as the fictional Jed.
ajs1031
You're right in everything. And his take on taxes and penalties are directly from what we'd want to see from Jed Bartlet. It's actually hilarious. How about Rob Lowe's speech about how school's should be free and should be palaces, yet he "just can't figure out how to do it yet." Bernie figured out how to do it.
Wow, you guys have nailed it... Sanders is the closest we have seen to a real life candidate like Jed Bartlett
In Army training I was assigned a gay roommate, I was 90% sure before he told me he was on day 1. My response was "Not a problem with me. I sometimes sleepwalk so sorry in advance if I start bumping around at night." I didn't care who he slept with on his own time and as long as he was an alright guy and not a screw up everything was good.
When was that, if I may ask?
I doubt it. If you were a sleepwalker, you wouldn't have made it past Basic. That is an immediate involuntary separation.
Marine Corps here, the problem with gays is you can't have romantic relationships in the Victor Units (whether opposite sex or same sex). If you do it at work, it affects job performance and people can get fired. If you do that Infantry, people get killed.
@@fenrisulven5324 - "(whether opposite sex or same sex) " - so not a problem with gays, just a problem with guys who can't keep their willys in their pants.
@@fenrisulven5324 How is that a problem? You think gays are gonna try and sleep with everyone? If any soldier can't keep it in their pants then clearly they aren't responsible to do the job. Don't see it a problem unless you're saying gays are hypersexual and can't resist being around other men.
Something I love about Sam is that he is obviously very passionate about this topic and it clearly shows in that he doesn’t need to look at notes for the people who have been wronged, he knows their names and stories by heart and can rattle them off without hesitation.
Sam is Passionate about everything even if he doesn't believe in it fully, he respects the office and everything that goes with it or at least the president
That's just called good acting mate.
@@utube1818 I agree that it’s good acting on Rob’s part, but it was also just so smartly directed and written that Sam, this guy who probably has ten meetings a day, is able to rattle off this information from memory because it’s that ingrained and important to him. This show has so many subtle yet intelligent decisions like that.
@@srayjhe's like the Erin Brockovich who can rattle of phone numbers and details of every one of the 100's of plaintiffs
Yeah, he just can't remember that Kirkwood is in California, not Oregon.
Served in the USAF before dont ask dont tell was done away with. Worked with Men and Women who we all knew were Gay and some that I found out afterwards and Ill die on this hill they were some of the best most honorable humans I had the privilege of serving with. It opened my eyes and made me a better person.
I like how he lost his appetite for the Danish in the end. You could tell Fitzwallace was disappointed in the soldiers, even if he kept calm and delivered his response with grace and poise.
It's 2023 and that scene was more relevant than ever as the courts seem more and more willing to revert back to policies allowed when this scene was filmed.
It's not about drag shows today, just like it was never about drinking fountains or where you sat on a bus back in the 50's and 60's.
You’re right to some degree, except when you introduce children into the mix. I can’t endorse or condone a man dressed as a woman saying or displaying sexual innuendos in front of kids.
its about kids being fooled into butchering their bodies before age 8. If you are in support of that... you are evil. End of line.
We had a guy in our unit that could pull off being " swish" in fatigues. He made Ginger look " Butch". He was killed in Desert Storm saving his comrades, he was one hell of a medic.
Name the branch and unit with his name....bet you cant.
@@thor7856 Maybe he doesn't want to run it up the flagpole. The first salute will be a shot from a right-wing conservative rifle
@@thor7856 Perhaps he just doesn't want to engage with a coward who probably cosplays in fatigues, and sully the name of his mate by telling someone who's likely never served, or won't ever serve...
@@thor7856 You want a good Gay soldier to learn about. Try Blair "Paddy" Mayne. Go to Hereford lines and disrespect his name.
Fitzwallace is boss in this scene. :)
Absolutely!! "Beat that with a stick" *mic drop*
+Bayougirl78 Don't you mean... *danish drop*?
BOOM!!!
Fitz was boss in EVERY scene.
Bayougirl78 and a danish drop
I love the way John Amos combines humor and gravitas.
you my friend have never written a comment on foxnews
"Beat that with a stick." Even the "klunk" of the stale danish hitting the plate was well-timed.
Badass!
"Beat that with a stick!"
Drops danish and exits the room, worst smack down these two officers ever got...
What makes it better is right before that, when Fitz walks in and one of them says "oh shit". They knew they screwed right off the bat.
@@thundercrash4775 No it was because the head of the Joint Chiefs walked in unexpected.
I mean, he is Chairman of JCS so worse would be from the President himself lol
The connection is that last line isn't just a throwaway from Fitz.
Black slaves were routinely beaten with sticks if their master was displeased. He directly connected homophobia to slavery.amd racism.
“don’t ask, don’t tell, don’t pursue, and don’t harass.” the last two parts are a surprise to everyone as they get left off when being discussed
As Barry Goldwater once said "You don't have to be straight to shoot straight!
Goldwater was a real one
Goldwater was a bit unhinged on nuclear policy but what a based statement
"It's an honor to meet you, Admiral"..."I imagine it would be".
Hilarious. I love that guy.
"Those weren't our guys." Holy shit, I clenched my fists so hard my knuckles popped.
Yeah, he decided to go literal with that remark. Sam rattling off cases of Marines, Air Force, Navy and cadets then fuckin snowflake Gold Leaf wants to be a smartass cause they weren't specifically Army. Guy's a douche.
@@SGTBizarro not quite how I read it...
"those weren't our guys" followed by the implied "Because 'our guys' aren't gay."
@@SGTBizarro if he had said that 30 seconds later with Fitz in the room he is busted back to Private and given a dishonourable.
He didn't know how lucky he was.
@@heisdeadjim why would that have happened?
@@DavidHeffron78 It wouldn't have. I like the West Wing but it's a stary eye liberal masturbation marathon fully of flawless mary-sue characters people like to gush over.
I loved Fitzwallace. John Amos was incredible in this role. Never got enough of him.
"The unit got over it."
Only on TV, in the real world they are beaten down. The Israeli army has many gay's but they are on one base and LOCKED in over night.
I don't think the IDF are exactly considered an inspiration
Rest In Peace John Amos.
I find it interesting two of the more prominent characters you played, James Evans and Admiral Percy Fitzwallace, were killed over the course of both Good Times and the West Wing.
As someone who’s serving in the Navy, I relate to this scene a lot. I don’t give a damn about my fellow sailors’ races, genders, and gender orientations; all I care about is that we can count on each other when shit hits the fan and that we can stand together as one.
And how may times have you been in a fire fight??? Not a thousand miles off shore.
@@thor7856 something tells me you live on your parents basement with a comment like that. Shut the fuck up troll. You haven't seen a "firefight" passed Call of Duty.
@@thor7856 And how long have you served in the military or have you ever even put on the uniform before? Don’t take your comfort for granted there sonny boy, men and women have bled and even died on the frontline so weasels like you can have the life and liberty to shit-talk others. For the reason of willing to put their lives on the line to guard our way of living alone, those who serve and served should always be deserving of our respect, regardless of their background and gender orientation. Think about this when you go to sleep tonight.
And what if they like their steak well done? Then what?
THEN WHAT?
@@thor7856 Do you realise that some of the most elite, that see fire fights up close and personal... are navy? do you know what devgru is? or do i need to dumb it down to terms like seal team 6?
John Amos was brilliant in every role of his career and he was never better than as Admiral Fitz. Brilliant casting and a remarkable scene.
I love this moment! When The West Wing first aired on TV I watched it with my parents, but I was a high schooler and I think I missed a lot of the meaning within the quick-witted dialogue. I really should go back and watch it again because I think I'd have a better understanding of it and a greater appreciation for it now.
@srayj - It's one of the few television programs that bears re-watching. In the ensuing nine years I hope you've found the time to do it!
I am more than 20 years older than when I watch TWW on free to air TV. I now watch via DVD (have all 7 seasons) and the hearing is a little less effective so I have the subtitles on - I am surprised at what I missed 20 years ago. Cheers
:55 gets me each time 'Oh my God' when Admiral Fitzwallace enters the room
cotters1 Every. Single. Time!
More than likely was not planning on meeting and getting a can of whoop ass opened on him by the highest ranking member of the military lol
Same
This show was ahead of its time. This was made during the DADT era.
This show was amazing. It ruffled LOTS of feathers but was the most hard-hitting realistic presidential drama
I LOVE the nuances of this show.... such as the Chairman coming in and asking for a danish... just wonderful!!!
Everyone on this show is food driven. Josh and CJ with General Tso’s chicken, Ainsley a bit of an omnivore, going for anything left in the mess. But the President leads the pack. The long description of cheese gnocchi, tomato saltambique, his personal recipe for chili, not to mention his phone call to the butterball hot line. Even Toby watched Julia Child, and Leo followed cooking shows.
But wtf kind of Danish was it? Clinked hard when he put it down
I was thinking the same thing. It took him less than one minute to make his point (and a damn good one at that) and it was over. Incredible scene.
JohnAmos brought a lot of gravitas to that role. I love how he sounds like he agrees with the two officers, then points out how that was true of blacks like him, then turns it around! A great point.
Beat that with a stick, lol
This episode has been my favorite so far (currently barely into season 2). The ending really just built up so much momentum that continued throughout the next few episodes.
anything end up topping it?
@@angusperson4222 I didn't actually end up watching past near the ending of season 2 (maybe one day), but it had some really insane moments that are still good and fairly shocking even today early in the season, and later some pretty heart felt discourse on some serious subjects. Being general as to avoid spoilers.
Fitzwallace was one of the best recurring characters on this show, which is saying something
It is saying something given that just about every recurring character in The West Wing was their own kind of brilliant. John Amos stood out in a crowd of heavyweight actors and actresses and I was so sad when they killed off Fitz because I genuinely loved his character.
I feel like him and Nancy deserved a spin-off. Maybe throw in Kate as well.
@@cashcleaner DUDE! the idea of this show, but focus on the national security side over the politics side. im almost annoyed at you for suggesting a spin-off that will never happen lol
@@decadencewhimsyandsarcasm Right? Like, call it “Situation Room” or something. Would have been great.
The man didn't even finish the danish.
+MrThedude77777 It was weighed, considered, and found wanting.
+antourte1 When I think of how many years I needed after watching that episode as it originally aired before I got the true context of that gesture, I want to find a way to kick myself.
He didn't have a mic in his hand, so the danish had to do.
Fitz didnt show it, but he was angry. Hence the weight of his action losing his appetite.
"It was symbolism! He was maaad!"
- Homer Simpson
Aired a little over 22 years ago. Fitz still hits like a brick.
Just like the danish.
Beat that with a stick! Great line.
"I said, What do you think?" ... That´s probably the moment where everybody felt scared for a second...
It's James Evans... that's when we ALL got scared!
@@Rob774 Yeah... I feel that:
"Step out of line, son, and I will straight up MURDER your ass..."
Any one who was watching that or watched after got seriously scared for life.
RIP to the Admiral, RIP to actor John Amos
And to think how in the show it was assumed that there was no way that gays could serve openly in the military. Under President Obama, he has made that pipe dream a reality. I guess small people like Sarah Palin would mock that as "hopey changy."
And now the current administration has reversed that position. There's nothing that someone gives which someone else can't take away.
They don't tell you about all the ones they find beaten down in the wash rooms.....
@@danieldickson8591 if your referring to the Trump administration( your comment say 1 year ago, but it doesn't say the exact date so i am assuming) they didn't reverse the don't ask don't tell position, what the Trump Administration did was repeal Obama's executive order he issued later in his presidency that allowed trans gender soldiers to serve and to allow trans gender soldiers who had been discharged for that reason to reenlist.
@@thor7856 Or about the ships where sailors of a certain complexion can only safely go in certain areas.
that's classic Sorkin writing style, create your own argument against yourself, i love it, he does it in the news room all the time.
He did it in A Few Good Men
Disabled VietNam vet here. I served with a few guys EVERYONE knew were gay, damn good sailors, and even better corpsman. I'm sure the "gut shot" marine didn't give a shitt if they were gay!
That was the most polite verbal middle finger I’ve ever heard
The character "Sam Seaborn" issued an historic question/statement about gays in the military -- not just by a character in a TV show, but also *representing* real life politics towards to the anti-gay Republican establishment(_I don't remember verbtim, but here's the gist_):
"Why is it that it's only gays who must adhere to a *hands off policy* regarding their sexuality when yoiu people swept the 'Tailhook Scandal' under the rug?"
Feel free to look it up (_it's worded differently because I don't remember word for word_). And take note of the meaning of what he said in this episode.
Tailhook didn't get swept under the rug. As a matter of fact they demonized the whole organization over the acts of a few individuals.
@@ictpilot no one was found guilty or disciplined for the sexual assaults and few of the senior military branch leaders were disciplined or prosecuted, such as Kelso, who were shown to have been aware of the behavior at the Tailhook conventions and had done little-to-nothing to stop it.
@@zax2004 I beg to differ. I was in the Navy during the time and it was put out that if you were a senior member of tailhook, your military career was in jeopardy if you didn't resign from a tailhook position. Anybody that had anything connected with tail hook their careers were in jeopardy but you never heard that put out publicly. Several military mass and Court martials were conducted which led to firings and forced retirements of senior officers. Also several officers careers and reputations were damaged a irreparably just because they were there and did nothing else.
@@ictpilot you can beg to differ all you want but none of what you said in that conflicts with anything I said and what I said was completely true.
@@zax2004 I suggest you do a little more research specifically there's a gentleman that was there and he wrote an article for San Diego Union you might want to read that. And like I said,we had the briefings during a weekend drill about tail hook and was told you better not be associated with this organization if you value your career.
I never understood how something like that would disrupt a unit.
You are there fighting in a war, seeing friends die, ready to kill others to not let that happen. You experience unimaginable pain, suffering, and poverty while exhausting yourself beyond the limits of your body and mind.
But if the guy next to you likes men that's too much.
Think of it from the other direction. What if one of your squad members was a nazi?
I love his tactic here, because he reflects and affirms their perspectives and prejudices, regarding gays in the military. Highlighting their arguments and support for the specifici perspective. Then he expertly dismantles their entire argument using precadence and personal experience. He does it so matter of factedly and doubles down with affirmation of their argument that it "will disrupt the cohesion of the unit", and then adds the long term effect, that the unit will adapt and evolve to this change, they "will get over it."
It further highlights that a system like the military that is so settled within one "cohesion" is also easily prone to breakdown. That the success and performance of the system is built upon it's ability to adapt to challenge and change. For those systems who are willing to adapt are the ones that will ultimately survive and thrive, while those that main strict stability will eventually falter.
Three keys to being gay in the MILITARY (ESP. THE MARINES) it worked for me:
1. Ignore the shit out of homophobes to the point of them seeming to not exist to you, they hate this for some reason, it enrages them. When they speak or arrive in a room give them no attention at all.
2. Make all your close friends outside of your unit
3. Make sure your commanding officer knows you are no-nonsense when it comes to work ethic
4. Go to school and prep for your career outside of the military because they may not re-enlist you unless you are very attractive resume wise
5. Repeat step 1 when you are off base because it further enrages the homophobes and they will start befriending you when they realize that you are human and can have straight friends whom you don't disrespect sexually or otherwise.
How did they know you were gay??? Did you swing your ass around and snap your fingers in the air so everyone would know?
I mean I was a cav scout I did not care if my battle buddy was gay or did anything as long as they had my back I had his or her back
The Spartans practiced homosexuality amongst their troops. There was absolutely no lack of unit cohesion there. They actually found it worked the opposite, and built unit solidarity and cohesion. Ounce for ounce the greatest fighting force ever to take the field in the ancient world.
+Darth Zed Very true. It was also considered manly as shit to cry when your brothers in arms died. If you didn't you were considered an insensitive baby. How times change.
+Darth Zed The same was true for the samurai whom we all know was also some of the most fearsome warriors to ever walk the planet. Another less famous unit that was actually completely homosexual was the Sacred Band of Thebes. A unit consisting of 150 male homosexual pairs that formed an elite core of the army of Thebes. They were eventually defeated and killed to the last man by Philip II of Macedon long after the rest of their army had fallen. When Philip realized who the fallen were he wept and erected a memorial in their honour.
+Per-Olof Persson And every one of them took his wound in the front.
+Darth Zed
Eh... I'd disagree that they were the greatest fighting force of the ancient world. That's simply too broad of a blanket statement to make. Like any military, they had their ups and downs.
Spartans were great infantry, but their cavarly arm was weak. The Corinthians were able to exploit that. But whatever faults the Spartan military had, "not tough enough" and "not cohesive enough" certainly weren't among them.
LOVE Fitzwallace! Pleasure to meet you< Yes, I am sure it is!"
That was a great scene...My father was in the Army and my step-father was in the Air Force. Great scene...
John Amos was such a fantastic choice for this character. Admiral Fitzwallace is definitely someone you don't mess with.
Think about this: Doris Miller an African American sailor, won the Navy Cross for his actions at Pearl Harbor. He was a cook at the time; one of the few positions available for AA sailors in the nation's navy. When he died in action in 1943, he was still a cook. 67 years later an African American man is now Secretary of Defense, the highest civilian position in the military. Beat that with a stick.
Most top brass haven't held a weapon in decades and are kiss ass yes men, Joe Biden is the POTUS...so whats your point???
that danish probably tasted nasty the way he tossed it back
HighOctane01 did you hear the sound it made it was probably hard as a brick why are we even talking about a Danish from the 90s
Yeah, they probably heard the "clunk" in the Oval...
0:52 That line pisses me off more than anything else that man said in the episode.
17 years later still relevant
now more then ever
Nina Briesch how so?
Not really......gays being in the military hasn’t been an issue in at least a decade.
@@Glitchfaction the law says it's not a issue but to many still get kicked out because they are gay. The offical reason in the file can be from not following orders to not to fit into military life-(english not my mother lanuage)... That can come from the unit CO to high as some old minded general who thinks gays are not to be trusted with a stright man's back.
Nina Briesch you have evidence of this happening in the last decade?
"I imagine it would be" great little line for Amos to deliver
Never thought Sam (Rob Lowe) was as endearing as some of the other Actors/Characters in the show but he's very good in this scene.
Fitz's death hit me on a whole 'nother level.
All of the West Wing deaths did, him, the President's secretary, and of course Leo
Everything on The West Wing is fracking badass!
Bartlett putting that bitch of a radio show host in her place. That is all.
What is it with the West Wing's smackdown speeches and pastry?
I hope they let that mic cool down before someone tried picking it up.
"Beat that with a stick."
God I love Fitz
One of the best lines delivered in TV history. Beat that with a stick!
Guy is in there for little more than a minute and he dominates the conversation
How have I never seen this show? I love it!
FreemanicParacusia binge the lot on lockdown
I like when Fitz was casual the first time he asked what they thought. Not so casual the second time he asked.
I miss this show so much...It was good...
You're not the only one who misses it. I've spent, like, an hour now rewatching random scenes of the show here on YT, and I want the show to come back. Please?
No wonder he only took one bite of that danish. Did you hear that clank when he dropped it??
"The unit got over it. The unit changed."
"Life is water, not stone."
-Mark Antony
Man, John Amos OWNS this scene. Walks in, has a bite of Danish, says his peace and gets the hell out. BOOM!
It's a honor to meet you, Admiral...
I imagine out would be, yes...
I live for the day I can use that line. Lol
Nobody could have done that better than John Amos.
And now we have the same argument with trans soldiers. Let's see if the people who get it with black soldiers, gay soldiers, can pick up the ball and keep running with it 💪
Why did I never watch this show? This is amazing.
Who was pissed when they killed off Fitzwallace? I was bummed and livid at the same time. I always thought if they ever did a continuation, he would have been VP with Santos instead of Leo, and eventually President.
I was! I LOVED Fitz, he was just brilliant.
"we haven't met" but he knew him...respect
It's probably from the European DVDs of the show. UK/etc. TV runs at 25 frames per second, but most TV shows are shot at 24 frames per second. European DVDs usually just speed up the show to match. It's not a lot, but some people notice it. I do, for sure.
"You're right...it did disrupt the unit. But the unit changed. The unit got over it.."
Looking back on this clip from even a few years more on, it is amazing to me just how many individual comments here all pick the word 'gravitas'.
As a rule, I don't care for reboots, sequels, or remakes, but I feel we really NEED the West Wing right now.
Aaron Sorkin had to stop working on the Newsroom because he was taking so much shit, as I recall. And that was pre 2016. I couldn't even imagine him trying to do something now.
Did I just realize that Sam talks through half his mouth? My younger brother did it and it made it harder to hear him since he mumbled a lot so I guess I spotted it out of reflex.
LOL, this clip has been clearly sped up. It's been pitch-shifted so much, Rob Lowe sounds like a little boy.
No it hasn't :S
No it hasn't. Amos' voice is the same. Sam is just really really engaged and can't control is voice in face of stupidity
He sounds like a horse announcer in the 40s, yeah see!?
Can anyone please help me, I have to go to court against my ex partner on the 15th of November, I will go to court, in Oxford England.❤
Is Sam's voice helium high in this clip? Or am I imagining it?
“You’re not gonna get anywhere.” You won’t know until you try. And try. And try. And keep trying. Because change can be good, but boy is it slow.
Also in the Navy, I 100% agree. The key thing with the SEAL thing is as you said though, no special treatment. That means the same physical standards as the men should be required. As long as people, men or women, can meet those standards then I don't see any reason they should be denied, as they can only help the team. Once you lower the bar for any reason, however, that's when people get put in danger.
@DeadEnd2109 So, this guy you're arguing with...if we took a shot everytime he says "bizarre, incorrect behaviour," how drunk would we be at this point? I wonder if he knows that repeating the phrase doesn't make it sound any better.
The same people who want to deny gay people rights would be denying black people rights if given the chance, at least their grandparents thought that way. Prejudice of any kind isn't acceptable.
Holy shit that’s the actor that plays David Wallace in “The Office”
How true this is today.
Robert P. Gates not very relevant......not in America anyways
It took so long, it was going to be the end of life as we know, the military structure was going to collapse, no one would join up. Then, overnight it changed. The rules were changed and nothing happened, life moved on. Respect to all who serve.
"you're not going to get anywhere" is the exact reason they need to try as hard as they can.
I SO have to get this Series on DVD I want to watch it
The West Wing shows the world as it should be, not the world as it is. Pity that life doesn't more closely imitate art.
I'm just a lowly SFC, but if anyone of any rank had the audacity to tell me ANY of my Soldiers weren't "our guys," I'd be getting court-martialed for assault. That shit would not stand.
I bet you were behind a desk all the time.
@@thor7856 I've never heard that insult before. /s
Tell me how scary it was dodging guard duty by sleeping in the motor pool, sweetheart. Bet you had dental appointments every time real work walked out of Top's office, too.
JOHN AMOS REST IN HEAVEN🙏🏿
I'm a huge fan of the show and have seen most episodes at least twice.
I can't speak to the technical side of webgeek6's question, but even if the clip was uploaded without alteration, I could swear that it is still playing back at a speed faster than when it originally aired. It's not a big deal because the content is still unaltered, but it is too fast.
I want to give my opinion as a former U.S. Army soldier.
Whether you are gay, straight, bi, whatever the hell pansexual is, or whatever your sexuality might be. I dont care. So long as it does not get in the way of your duty then it's none of my business. Love is love is love. No if and or buts.
HOWEVER... The argument against transsexuals is not that anyone is uncomfortable serving with them or that anyone thinks they can do their job at any lower of a standard ( I'm aware some people feel that way, but they dont deserve to serve this country).
The issue is when transsexuals join the military and they find ways for the military to have to pay for gender reassignment surgery. Should you wish to do that it should be on your own dime.
Joining the military to have that surgery is not good for them or their fellow servicemen.