How is this one of the worst cars ever? they sold over 1.8 million. Also the Yenko stinger Corvair won tons of races. This is a cool one of a kind GM car, air cooled boxer engine. It deserves more credit. IMO
Yes, and Don Roe, my hero, won a number of times at Pikes Peak in his. I will always love my '63 Spyder Rag top. Primary handling change, simply installing an EMPI camber compensator, yep, if you know about VW Bugs, you also know that one item made a world of change in handling of rear drive, swing axle cars. Oh, I also ran it against 327 fullsize Cheys.
Mark G Unsafe at Any Speed was not a book about the Corvair. Nader only covered the Corvair in 1 out of the 8 chapters in the book. He criticized the swing axle design, which in it's stock form on the Corvair was prone to "tuck under" as he called it. He was right, when a swing axle set up is done incorrectly, the wheels pinch inward. My Baja Bug was raised up and you could see a ridiculous amount of camber, from the back. Nader further explained, the Corvair relied on very specific tire pressures, which exceeded the tire manufacturer's recommended pressure range, to compensate for the lack of the neccessary anti-roll bar, which Chevy rejected. But, the tire pressure requirement, band aid fix for the tuck under issue, was not made clear to dealers and Corvair owners. He also mentioned that Chevy had an unadvertised suspension package and there were some aftermarket packages, that adequately solved most of the tuck under and suspension issues. In 1965, after Nader's book came out, Chevy redesigned the suspension, with a fully independent, four link set up. Most of the rest of the book focuses several other important, automotive safety issues. The book will forever be remembered as a book about the Corvair, but it brought up many critical safety issues which had nothing to do with the Corvair, such as: "The Second Collision" which occurs when unrestrained bodies are allowed to fly around inside of cars that are filled with chrome trimmed interiors and all metal dashboards. He talked about non collapsable steering columns, unforgiving, sharp instrument panels, non-safety glass in windshields, seat belts, door strength, roll bars, suicide doors. He talked about how the ornamental bumpers of the time would drag a pedestrian under the car, rather than bounce them off. He covered the industry focus on stylish design, at the expense of safety. The list of subjects goes on.The guy was kind of a hero in my book. He was so far ahead of his time, it was ridiculous.
Mark H You are correct. Chevy began addressing the problems that Nader pointed out, soon after the book came out. As I mentioned in my comments, Nader himself pointed out that the aftermarket already was selling suspension packages, which solved many of the problems with the Corvair. This fact helped to make Nader's point, which was this: The entire auto industry was ignoring known safety issues and concerns, which their own engineers usually addressed to upper management, only to be ignored, in favor of cost savings. It's very unfortunate that most people remember Nader's book as an anti-Corvair book. You should check out even a description of the book. Nader had this very forward thinking vision of how much safer cars could be, that we all take for granted today. Some people see the guy as a big buzz killer. But, he really was a visionary and pioneer in automotive safety.
Sky Marshall Sorry, but he jumped on a lot of cars and called out the Corvair because of its rear weight bias, it had nothing to do with the suspension. Rear engined cars would be prone to having the rear slide (it's called over-steer) Yep even the top of the line Porsche, a gussied up VW, did it. Yes it could catch you off guard if you got a little exuberant He claimed, incorrectly, that the car was prone to flipping. In dependent trials comparing the Corvair to another popular compact, the Ford Falcon. They did every maneuver that could think of in order to flip both cars, guess which one refused to flip. The Chevy. The car was exonerated in the end. Look down a little farther in the comments for my experiences with further explanations ofownins and upgrading a '63 Spyder. Keep in mind that the VW had been on the road since before WWII and had the same setup with no serious problems.
It's been years since I watched this video and this car still gets me stirred up. Of all the cars featured on Big Muscle this one is my favorite. It's built to be driven exactly the way I want to drive. It looks pretty sharp too.
My old roomie and I built one of these around 35 years ago. The Crown kit consisted of a sub-frame, motor mounts, cooling system components, and a special input shaft so the stock transaxle could be used. A lot of fabrication was left to the owner, which is undoubtedly why a lot of them never got finished. Mine had a 327/365 HP solid-lifter `Vette engine, with a 3.55 Posi. It only weighed 2700 pounds, and embarrassed LOTS of flashy muscle cars.... :-)
YES. Some HISTORY on that infamous KIT. This info shoulda been in the vid for sure. THANK YOU. p.s. I generally don't over-use capital letters, but in the case... :)
@Blackwaterdogs.... sir i am a lifelong VW and Porsche owner and lover of all that is aircooled and midengine.... my ? sir is how did yall flip the trans around internally? obviously ive never had one apart nor even seen one personally and please understand im not doubting you or being hateful at all its an honest question..... in the VW universe there are certain transmissions that can be flipped easily by just changing ring gear position or eliminating gear reduction boxes for example.....
@@porschetech72901 The Crown kit allowed for running the transaxle in the stock configuration, albeit at the cost of losing about 6 inches of legroom up front. There was another company at that time, named Kelmark, which offered a similar conversion kit, but theirs required flipping the transaxle over, which caused the ring gear to run "backwards" on the pinion. This caused concern about the reliability and longevity of the Kelmark design, even though it bought you some legroom. Most folks went with the Crown setup, and just bit the bullet on the legroom issue.
@ Grady P.S.: here`s a more recent video which provides different views & details. At around 6:30, you can see under the rear of the car, where you can see the stub of the custom input shaft that was supplied by Crown. ua-cam.com/video/U2H6wW0Z1As/v-deo.html
Don't judge a Corvair by the POS clapped-out early 60's variant you had. I had a 1965 Corvair Monza and it was a great little car. Handled better than my T/A.
The mid-engine Corvair (65 and up only) was a great combination of a 4 wheel independent suspension, good power, and light weight. In other words it follows the formula for all great performance cars. The mid-engine swap was beneficial in that it moved the weight of the engine forward and reduced its polar moment. It also replaced the rather underpowered flat six with some small block HP. I helped build one in 1970-71 without benefit of the Crown kit. It was a pretty straight forward swap since the Saginaw 4-speed was commonly used behind small block Chevrolets. We did have to modify the input shaft and had to figure out how to get fluid to and from the front mounted radiator. The diff was pretty fragile and we cracked the case on the first one with an overzealous launch. The main reason for using the 65 and up (besides it's much better looks) was the pre 65's had a swing axel (like the early VW) with a u-joint inboard only whereas the 65 and up had a true IRS with u-joints inboard and at the hub. This meant the rear tires did not change camber angle when the tire moved up and down and lowered the roll center - much improved handling.
I know Im randomly asking but does anybody know of a method to log back into an instagram account..? I was dumb lost my account password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me.
@Malcolm Casey Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site on google and I'm trying it out now. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
The Corvair was very close to the ideal runabout when first released, certainly, it was not less safe than its contemporaries and was to be America's VW Bug, but much better. Nader made a name for himself and most folks thought him a self-aggrandizing lawyer at best and that reputation came back to bite him when he ran for president. Our young presenter doesn't know his history but that's par for today.
Mike has a way of describing cars, conveys really well to the viewer. Keep up the great work and thanks for bringing these killer cars to our attention.
This episode resonated with me on two fronts- My grandfather, for a time, owned a Corvair (Much to my father's chagrin, considering that he accidentally said that it was a Corvette before it was delivered) but mostly because I know the roads you were driving on! At the top of the hill is a little college campus, and since housing was off-site, I drove up that hill every single day to get to my classes! Nice work on bringing on nostalgia, as well as a new-found respect for the lowly Corvair!
Early VW's and Corvairs had simple swing axle rear suspensions, fine for low power slow cars, but had handling issues as cars got faster. Later VW and Corvairs had independent rear suspension to address the issue. Nader's problem was with the swing axle design, which the later design fixed, but the damage was done.
Nadar's problem was that he was an idiot with an audience that was just as stupid as he was. The American public is, overall, pretty ignorant & gullible. Nadar attempted to run his BS on the Ford Mustang too, but got shut up real quick. I only saw one short paragraph about it in one magazine.
My dad was a Corvair fan having owned both 1st and 2nd generation examples back in the day. After he became "Corvairless" in the 70's I can remember him contemplating purchasing yet another Corvair. I was probably around 13 or 14 years old at the time and he took me along to go check out the car. I distinctly remember it because that car was one of the mid-engine V8 conversion Corvairs. What an unique car - kind of a shame that he didn't end up buying it. Good memories. Thanks for this video.
“Oh my God they got the motor in the backseat… that’s where Chevy should have put it, and maybe someday the Corvette will be that” you are a prognosticator my friend because that is where they put it.
You drove a pre 65 Corvair. the 65-69's were better, also better looking. I had both. Love your show. You can also put a v8 in a Fiero. Also very cool, in spite of your opinion.
I had a 62 monza 4spd. put is a big bore kit , log ram , AFB 4 BBL carb ieco quick shift link and steering , koni shocks and springs. for a corvair it was really good and fun to drive. Drove it from Long beach Calif. to Daytona Florida , approximately 52 hours for 2,700 miles .
I love how nearly every person who actually owns/drives a Corvair is here defending it against this mis-informed fellow. Dude, you probably do great stuff but The Corvair was not one of the worst cars ever by far. Secondly, if the early model you drove at 24hrs of LeMons was having so many issues, perhaps it was because you picked a 50 year old car and didn't prep it correctly for being on the track. Brakes pulling is hardly something you can blame on the model of car it was... That could happen to any car. Hell, there are STILL guys out winning SCCA races in Corvairs. Or at least being VERY competitive.
Ive built both a crown and a front engine corvair on a GM g-body frame. The crown conversion had way more crowd appeal because of the engine in the back seat. The differential is the weak point of the crown corvair when you get above 300hp. Hard launches break stuff. Awesome handling car with the independent suspension of the later cars.
Corvairs only had suspension issues until 1965 then they redesigned it, but the damage that Nader and the media caused caused sales to drop by over 50%. honestly, it's not a bad car. also you have to think ppl weren't used to having next to no weight in the front unlike most other cars out there.
It wasn't Nader that killed the Corvair, he just killed the resale value for a lot of people. What killed the Corvair was it didn't share enough (hardly anything) with other GM cars. Having so many unique parts and with more stringent safety and emission regulations coming along it wasn't worth it to GM to keep it in production.
Brenndon McGill ot was the single u joint rear shafts that could bind also why some vw's and 64 and older rear wheels castered and cambered with weight looked like an overloaded trailer axle. I had 2 68's when they were only a couple years old, absolutely loved them.
the 283 chevy v8 is one of the best engines ever built out of the factory. Forged rods, forged crank, throw in some forged pistons. Top off with some built heads and roller rockers and titanium valves, mine revs to 7.5k no problem. Now it is only 340hp but it would put a smile on your face every time you rev it. Backed by a rock crusher 4 speed its a beast. Currently residing in a vega it tears the corners and strip.
The 65 is worlds ahead of the 64 even before the addition of the v8. The early Corvairs had single swingarm rear suspension (like the Triumph Spitfire and the VW bug) and would lead to extreme weight jacking and sudden oversteer. Funny how Nadar never mentioned th eVW in his book...
Nader did eventually take on the VW type Is and type IIs and it was pretty damning. Unsafe at Any Speed wasn't just a critique of the Corvair. It was a critique of the lack of safety engineering in the American auto industry in general.
I drove my dad's new red '66 Monza 110 coupe from the day he got it from the dealer for 7 years and tens of thousands of miles. Never in the shop, never broke down, and my ladies and I had lots of wonderful times in it. All I ever had to do in terms of repair was replace the pushrod tube seals. I was addicted to the sound of that flat six!
So you drove a Corvair in the "24-hour of lemons" and that's your reference? Obviously you never drove a well sorted out stock Corvair. I have a 63, and it's nothing like what you said.
Of course they are Unique, thats what makes the car community so nice, everyone has their own interests, I get that it may not be for you but the work that made this car is to be strongly appreciated and respected.
first off, the corvair was meant as a regular everyday car...not a muscle car. the Camaro was actually the next body style for the corvair. due to the death knell caused by that dickhead nader when the vair was axed they went ahead with the newer corvair body, put the engine in the front and called it the camero. I grew up helping my dad restore old vairs...from Monza to greenbrier vans to rampsides...they friggin rocked.
+highonimmi Because of that "dickhead" Nader, we have standard seat belts, padded dashboards and a load of other safety features that have saved a lot of lives. The poor safety of American cars at the time was no joke, man. The original rear suspension of the Corvair was independent fixed swingarm, so if tire pressure was a bit down and you hit a corner too fast the arm had a tendency to fold under and cause a rollover... Oh yeah, Ralph really took the fun out of driving. Nader used this as a major example in his first book on American cars and their crap safety. GM knew about the rollovers and the cause, and wouldn't have done anything about it if Nader hadn't embarrassed them into it. As a result, to save face, they changed the rear suspension system to the great handling (and safe!) setup it had from '65 onwards... But GM's mistake (yes, it was them who were the troublemakers - Nader was only the messenger) fucked the car's reputation for good. Had GM built the Corvair properly in the first place, instead of cutting corners as usual, Nader would have left it alone and it may have had a much longer run. A car company knowingly kills a load of its customers, and the guy who blows the whistle on that is the dickhead? Really? Please explain that one to me.
camcoop25 the problem with nader is when the corvair was improved he never went on the record with the same amount of gusto to let the american public know it was fixed. the early corvairs didn't have a design problem. the reason for the design was to eliminate the universal joints (pre 1968 vs beetles had the same design). the car needed to be driven by people who knew how to drive a car like that. the engineers wanted an anti roll bar put in the car thus eliminating the possibility injury due to rolling the car. the execs said no. again the reason nader is a dickhead is he always pointed out things in cars but he didn't use the same energy to let people know when things were improved. later in 1972 there was a safety commission report resulting from testing conducted by the investigative team from texas a & m university who compared the 1963 corvair with 4 contemporary vehicles: Renault dauphine, plymouth valiant, ford falcon and pre 1968 vw beetle + the second generation corvair. their findings co-oberated the findings of the 1971 NHSTA study that the early corvairs, "possessed no greater potential for loss of control than its contemporary competitors in extreme situations." a review panel concluded that the 1960-63 corvair did not have any more handling, rollover problems than its contemporaries. also, nader had a hard on against swing axel rear suspensions (like the early corvair). guess who else had that same style during that time? ever hear of Porsche, Mercedes-benz or Volkswagen? why didn't he say anything about them in his book...that he wanted to make money on. the gm people who bitched about the suspension were two disgruntled ex employees. one was an engineer who was miffed his idea of a roll bar was denied. the other was john de lorean. how far did he get on his shit? where was nader on the studies results? quiet, that's what. I have no problem when someone points out an aspect of a vehicle they think may need addressing. my problem is that when you see it in others say so and when it is corrected SAY SO with the same energy you did when you pointed the shit out. I have driven early model vairs along with the later models. I knew the characteristics of their handling. I never had a problem with any of them. I was taught when you are faced with ground that has a sharp downward angle to steer towards the direction you're headed and then when safe to try and get back onto the road when the car won't roll over. simple and easy...just like when you slide on ice...steer towards the slide, remove your foot from the accelerator and don't touch the brake. when you have control then gently press the accelerator (if it's warranted) and drive out of the slide. I see tons of people don't do that...I don't blame the car....I blame the driver.
Without spending hours researching it, I can't refute your info on later safety tests... But regarding Nadar, or any advocate or journalist - you could argue that his style of boon constitutes investigative journalism - it is not their role to praise companies or whoever for improving their game. His job, in the case of "Unsafe at Any Speed" was to find fault with the American auto industry and its disregard for the safety of its customers. And by building public awareness to get legislation in place to make vehicles safer - which he achieved and which has been beneficial to the average car buyer in the long term. Once the car company has been caught out cutting corners and generally being irresponsible assholes, it is their job to spend the effort and money informing the public that they have fixed the problem. What was Nader supposed to do? Write a book called "Safer Now" ? No publisher would pick it up. He has certainly in interviews over the years acknowledged the vast improvement in automotive safety. As for going after Porsches, etc... how many of those were being sold in the US at the time? He was going after the domestic car industry. Given that books have a limited number of pages, and also have to be paced and focused so that people will actually read them, he could hardly give an encyclopedic coverage of every car on the planet that had problems. It is a long time since I read it, (by the way, have you read it? you may have, I don't know) but I don't recall him saying that the Corvair was the only dangerous car, or indeed the only one using this technology. He just picked that car as an example and ran with it. Were there mistakes in the book? Most probably. There pretty much always are in journalistic exposes. Did he draw attention to a problem that badly needed to be addressed? Absolutely. And that is my central point. Nader's goal has never really been to enrich himself, so the book sales argument is a bit weak. It was a surprise bestseller. He's worth a few million bucks - mostly from speaking engagements over the course of a 50 year timeframe of being well-known. An ex-president makes that much with 10 dinner speeches. Plenty of doctors have that sort of wealth. He has given away a lot of the money he's earned. If he wanted to get rich, he certainly could have. Many companies he criticised (whom you seem to feel he should have praised after they complied with his demands), made substantial offers to come aboard as a "consultant" - meaning a guy paid to shut the fuck up. And for the record, I love Corvairs, always have... especially the ones with the improved suspension... and you can thank Ralph Nader for that.
camcoop25 I prefer the pre 64s. don't care much for the later models. yes I read the book. why he didn't go after the ford or the Plymouth I don't know. if he was looking out for the safety of drivers why not let them know that a car company has a pretty safe car? (especially after he said they weren't) he wasn't the only person saying cars needed to be safer. my point is if your goal is to make driving a safer endeavor when a company improves their cars let the public know. it's just like when people report terribly defaming shit in a mag or a news paper...it's on the first page. the retraction they were wrong on the last one buried in amongst the obits.
I learned how to drive in my dad's Corvair and I really miss that car. We easily went up the snow covered New England hills when front engine vehicles were sitting still just spinning their wheels! Great car even stock!
Corvair - - UNSAFE ?? When did you start parroting Ralph Nadar ?? To call the Corvair one of the worst cars in history is just plain IGNORANT! ! The Corvair was always a GREAT car, even the early swing axle jobs. A Stock Corvair would corner better than a race prepped Corvette. Of Course they could be improved on, but they were damned good to begin with. I only owned one, a 1965 Corsa 140/4speed, and that thing was like a slot car going through curves & the straight line performance wasn't that bad either. I loved the oversteer. Cars that plowed were what I didn't like.
To call it a great car is as ignorant, a car with a swing axle IS dangerous on road, adaptative camber depending on the compressions is just plain stupid for the commoners. Add to that the lack of precision due to soft suspension control, and you've got a good car to cruise but bad to find the limit. So YOU liked it, but it doesn't make it a good car in the eyes of physics and safety, it makes it something that lives in your heart, and that makes for biased opinions. I'm the first one to love Chevrolets, but this one would be today's stock mustang or camaro, not a sports car, just a very enjoyable car.
You are the one who is showing ignorance here. First the early generation Corvair (with swing axle) was the first and only car to be deemed SAFE. The NHTSA put in place by Ralph Naders urging, heavily tested the EARLY model Corvair in 1972 against the other cars of the period and found it to be Safe. It is very easy to look these FACTS up. Second, olmon11 is referring to a LATE model Corvair that does not have Swing Axle suspension. It has full IRS! 65 and up Corvairs handle extremely well. 9 division Championships in SCCA against Porsches, Ferraris, etc. Check out a Yenko Stinger! Come watch a Corvair at an Autocross! Don't slam someone as making an ignorant statement when you clearly know nothing about Corvairs!
Um, that was not what you were implying in your comment. Your comment was about swing axles. I responded by giving you some information about early vs. late model Corvairs suspension and some testing regarding the Corvair. You seemed to be lacking knowledge in that area and perhaps you think that a Lawyer without a drivers license, nor a degree in engineering might know more about cars than the folks who build them. Perhaps you could do some research on how many cars utilize swing axle suspension other than 60-63 Corvairs and let me know your thoughts on how dangersous they are. Anyway, back on track here, my response was not about crumple zones, air bags, ani-lock brakes. As far as 2000+ Cars you can't really do an apples to apples comparison can you? I can tell you this, I know of a gentleman who was rear ended in a Corvair, was at a dead stop and hit from behind at 55mph. Happened three weeks ago and he is fine. Know of another gentleman who suffered the same and another who survived a head on collision in one. Are they safer? As far as technology in comparison to new cars, then of course not. But as I said earlier, that is not what your statement was about.
David Massieux You just go from making one stupid statement right into making another. Go tell your Momma to slap you. You have no business commenting on the suspensions or roadability of any automobile. BTW, I am certified in steering, braking and suspension systems for automobiles and light trucks. I spent almost 40 years working in the auto repair industry and I have done a fair amount of road racing & I set up my own cars. I KNOW what works, whats good & what isn't. The Corvair was GOOD. Even the Swing axle version was good. The independent rear suspension that they put on it from 1964 thru 1969 was just better.
I gotta admit im starting to love your shows hope you keep them coming the last mustang video with melair i belive was great and now this amazing but diffrent car loving it!
The Stevie Wonder flames are not pleasing. NOT. Would have rather it was just kept clean, the bronze color on the body was just fine, but it was like at the last minute someone let their ten year old kid loose with two inch wide masking tape, newspaper and a spray can. It's just unappealing and does not show case any talent. The car itself I LIKE.
The "stevie Wonder flames" are called scallops, & they're a popular street rod treatment. They work quite well on this vehicle, and are a bit more difficult to lay down than you realize.
You are okay, Mr. Musto. You truly are. That, and a whole lot more. And Chuck Rust FTW. Thanks for letting us drool over your car. Fantastic execution.
This is a properly sorted car. As much as I like the 1000 hp cars Mike has tested, you can really use this cars power it is not just smoking the tires. Well done sir.
My cousin had a '65 Monza spyder when I was 11 he let my Daddy try it out with him in the passenger seat and me looking over the seat at the speedometer. Daddy shifted into 4th at about 110. The suspension was basically the same as the VW beetle and the porch of that day. To this day I believe nader took money to badmouth the corvair because it would have dug into the market of the VWs. If the vw had have been run off the embankment like radar's team was running off the corvair it would have rolled also. Probably those test are on utube somewhere. So much fraud in politics when the money is put into the right hand, even back then.
Ted Schofield. Nader never has been married, never had children and has never even held a drivers license. Those are facts. So, I don't know where you got the idea that his daughter died in one but you are incorrect about that.
A '65 would have been a Corsa, had either a 140hp four carb or a180hp Turbo and 184 cubes. My '63 put out 150 hp with a 149 CI, Was the first engine to make over 1 HP per cubic inch. The suspension (rear) had a mild upgrade in 64, the later ones mimicked the Corvette rear set up.
Love these cars! A guy in my neighborhood had one of these V-8 conversions and it was super quick. In my case, my first car at 16 years old was a 4 year old 1965 Corvair. It was great...Italian styling with a 6 cylinder, Porsche-esque drivetrain. People complained about the handling but it was partly due to them not reading the owners manual. Front tirel pressure was quite a bit different from the rear spec...and if you ignored that, the car got squirrelly in hard turning. Also, rear engine cars were not as well understood by the average person, so someone would back off the gas pedal in the middle of a turn and wonder why the rear wanted to come around! I put a ton of miles on mine, and it never let me down. I'm restoring a Triumph TR-6 right now, but I still dream about getting another Corvair. Really enjoyed this vid, thanks!
I agree, a back seat with a back engine in it, I don't like screwing up cars by making them freaks, it has nice lines, the paint job, tacky, the rear engine corvair stock, had lots of power anyway, why turn it into this, but if allyoure going to do it race it, do what you want, the corvair stock rear engine was very quick, and this worse car in history BS is just that B S...fkg racetards
Ted Schofield.....By 1965 they replaced the swing axles with full IRS and half-shafts. You just got to know how to drive a rear engine car. They can bite you. Hans Stuck & Walter Röhrl were masters at it.
or just simply drive it and enjoy it, we all like different things, I think this one is an abomination, fugly in fact, but...to each his or her own...not for me to screw up what o think is already a nice car...
Thats a really cool car. Its great to see a car with crazy flaws become something useful & great. That paint job make it look like a autocross warrior.
As far as I can tell, he did replace the swing-axle rear end with proper suspension, which is what made it "unsafe at any speed" in the first place. So that problem is solved, which is good.
The Corvair got a multi link IRS in 65. However, Swing axle rear suspensions were quite common on early rear engine cars. Many had it before Corvair used it. VW Beetle & Porsche had swing axles, the early 60s Pontiac Tempest was a frt engine, but still had a rear trans-axle with swing axle rear suspension. The Corvair was never "Unsafe at any speed". It actually handled BETTER than the Corvette of the same era. Ralph Nader was an idiot, sh_t for brains lawyer that didn't know anything about cars, but did know how to make a public stink & get publicity. IMO, Nader should have been shot when he first opened his stupid mouth.
Justa218i - - Corvair changed the rear suspension in 1964 - The Gen II Corvair came out in 1965. ManWithBeard - - Swing axle rear suspension, while not optimum, was not that much of a problem. The real problem was that Ralph Nader was a total ass-wipe that didn't know his arse from a hole in the ground about cars, but did know how to get publicity. www.carmagazine.co.uk/news/search-results/motoring-issues/the-porsche-911-the-car-that-shouldnt-work-but-does-part-1/
+Squirles G Okay children, I understand the point both of you are trying to make minus the bullshit bullets flying from both sides. Personally, I would have built this car as a Corsa Turbo but just updated with unequal-legnth upper and lower rear suspension geometry from probably something else GM has produced since, not some mid-engine v8 car, because that is not what the Corvair was supposed to be, so there I am with you, Joe. But Squirles, you are right in that it is his car and he can build whatever TF he pleases and perhaps it is great. I don't like it but it kicks the shit out of my 99 Taurus, so nothing but props from me even if it isn't my cup-o-tea.
+IPA Drinker Not to my PERSONAL taste either but major props on building what HE wanted out of HIS car. I also agree about the mudslinging in this string. Long live the individuals and their hotrod builds. Maybe one of these years I'll be able to afford to do another oddball build again myself.
By comparison to newer foreign engine's you are correct, However for an American V-8, a worked Chevy 283 with it's short stroke really does like the higher rpm's.... I'm sure this "Host" didn't want to beat on this guys car
Bull. Check out the Yenko Stinger on Jay Leno's Garage here on YT. If it was rubbish neither the Yenko Stinger nor the above would exist. GM just didn't take it far enough.
The 1960-1964 were swing axel design, which did leave them prone to wheel roll in the turn. They redesigned the suspension for the 65-69 to a full independent axel arrangement for an incredibly stable platform. The Corvair was a formidable racer and it's fan base are quite loyal. Once you have a proper Corvair (and it really doesn't take much) they are in for life. They are inexpensive to obtain and equally so to tweak. I bought my '66 Corsa for 6K and bought a rebuilt engine with a custom cam and oversized jets for the secondary carb and pulled 180 HP, which is amazing on a 1900 lb convertible. Nader's "Unsafe at any speed" was on the Mk I body style. His claims were later disputed in 1972, when a study compared the '63 to other contemporary and comparable platform vehicles. The Corvair was deemed to be as safe, or safer than it's competition. So, go drive one before you make a claim about the worst car ever. Save that for cars like the Pinto, Chevette, Reliant Robin, Yugos, PT Cruiser, Eagle Premiere, Dodge Omni, or any of the other total shit cars made.
Pretty much all of the rear engine swing axle cars had the same problem as the Corvair - Renault Dauphine, FIAT, and especially the Volkswagens. About the only swing axle cars that worked out well were the Mercedes, which were front-engined and wide track. It was a damn shame GM decided to put their weight behind a Mustang imitation rather develop the Corvair into something that could compete with BMW or even Porsche.
Corvair is a fun car, even with a stock engine. I still have my first car, a '67 Monza 140, in my garage. Patiently awaiting restoration. This vid was shot in PV, not far from where I live. Makes me want to drop everything and get mine back on the road. Thanks for a great video!
There seems to be a lot of speculation in the comments. I'll add what I remember from when I drove Corvairs. The best explanation I heard about the demise of the Corvair was the expense of the engine and drivetrain was not competitive, too many parts, especially the engine, with the block in 2 pieces, individual cylinders, multiple carbs, ect. It just didn't add up when V8's were what people wanted and cheaper to produce. The baddest Corvair I ever drove was a 1969 with a 396 in the back seat, no engine cover or window either, scary with all that power only a few inches away.
It took them a LONG time, but Chevy engineers finally saw the light, and created the mid-engine C8 Corvette, which has been terrorizing (MUCH more expensive) supercars for a couple of years now. A small group of forward-thinking enthusiasts did something similar almost a half a century ago (!) with the Corv-8 conversions. I lost count of all the "Muscle Cars" that were humbled by my lowly Corvair....,
I grew up in central Pennsylvania and the first cars i can remember were my dad's 55 Nomad and mom's 66 Corvair Monza Spider. That Corvair with dad's tweaks was FAST, cornered well, and still got decent mileage the rare times mom could keep her foot off the floor and from slam shifting through the gears. I recall there was an Olds Tornado 445 fwd powered Corvair wagon running around the Lancaster/Berks areas of PA in the late 70's. Didn't corner well but was quick in a straight line.
I am a European and i always loved muscle car looks, but naturally i hated the way those cars moved in the corners, but this show makes me want to buy all of them and remake them so they work all the time, i would love to use this as my daily driver, and the noise they make it's like an angel playing heavy metal, Mike keep up the good work
This was great. Ironically when I was about 12, I built an AMC 1/25 scale model of this car. I had a hodgepod of parts and with my dremel and exacto, I was able to make it work. Amazing what some Testors glue and a little juvenile creativity will do. Fast forward 43 years and here's the car. Very cool!
Hey Mike you're absolutely right! I'd never have considered a Corvair as a muscle ride until this episode. It'd have it all. Rare, well-performing (only in a V8), nice looking, historic, etc. Nice episode!
great ride! the stance looks wicked and the paint is beautiful with the body match wheels. sounds great, goes like a bat outta hell, and handles on rails. you out did the General, dude. bravo.
When I was growing up in Woodbridge Va. There was a young guy that had an unreal corvair. It was just a sight to see along with twin turbos,Yes twins. This was way before its time like 88-90ish . I was just back for a visit when he pulled up next to me and left me starring at tail lights when the light went green. I was in a IROC-Z 28 w/350 auto that was not in stock form. Find this car and WOW what a show it would be.
Back in the day, I wanted one of these, big time. But, I'm about your size. Even more, I also wanted a Griffith. Then, I went to buy one. After that BIG disappointment my buddy who was with me, kept juicing me saying, "Christ, I thought you were going to buy a car you had to take off your shoes to drive."
Omg! This car should not by any means work what-so-ever! But it sooo does.. The world is a better place with a rule breaking car like this. Way to go Chuck, what a wicked awesome machine. :)
My dad was a major face at Crown in the glory days, and I used to work there after high school. Earlier than that I got rides from Ted Trevor in the first Corv8's; awesome! All the VolksVair adapters, where you could put a Corvair in a Bug were pretty neat also. This is back in the days of the 'Bug In' at OCR... ah the old days!
I've been watching Big Muscle for quite a while now, and I have to say, I'm actually starting to think that this show is as good as Top Gear UK, and that's something. And I'm saying this as a European. Great work guys, BM rocks!
That is one cool car! You can see and hear all the hard work Chuck has done. Someone needs to talk him into building a stout all aluminum 377ci with a set AFR heads for that thing.
My first 3 cars were Corvairs. Great little car. I wish I still had my last one. The V8 midship shoehorn is an intriguing idea, but a nightmare to work on, and expensive. What I'd like to see is a 400HP 2.5L 4Cyl turbocharged Subaru with intercooler, rear engine adapted, so the original back seat is kept, and the interior noise is reasonable. Those motors only weigh 300lbs with intercooler. That kind of conversion is only possible with a Corvair because of smog laws, and with a '65 you can do almost anything with no CAT required. A Subaru engine replacement would be incredible, running on E85 with 20lbs boost. It wouldn't have the greatest gas mileage, but better than a V8, and it would rip like no tomorrow. The only problem is water cooling, which is solvable if the V8 had water cooling.
How is this one of the worst cars ever? they sold over 1.8 million. Also the Yenko stinger Corvair won tons of races. This is a cool one of a kind GM car, air cooled boxer engine. It deserves more credit. IMO
Yes, and Don Roe, my hero, won a number of times at Pikes Peak in his.
I will always love my '63 Spyder Rag top.
Primary handling change, simply installing an EMPI camber compensator, yep, if you know about VW Bugs, you also know that one item made a world of change in handling of rear drive, swing axle cars.
Oh, I also ran it against 327 fullsize Cheys.
Ralph Nader wrote a book about this car that gave it a bad reputation.
Mark G Unsafe at Any Speed was not a book about the Corvair. Nader only covered the Corvair in 1 out of the 8 chapters in the book. He criticized the swing axle design, which in it's stock form on the Corvair was prone to "tuck under" as he called it. He was right, when a swing axle set up is done incorrectly, the wheels pinch inward. My Baja Bug was raised up and you could see a ridiculous amount of camber, from the back.
Nader further explained, the Corvair relied on very specific tire pressures, which exceeded the tire manufacturer's recommended pressure range, to compensate for the lack of the neccessary anti-roll bar, which Chevy rejected. But, the tire pressure requirement, band aid fix for the tuck under issue, was not made clear to dealers and Corvair owners. He also mentioned that Chevy had an unadvertised suspension package and there were some aftermarket packages, that adequately solved most of the tuck under and suspension issues. In 1965, after Nader's book came out, Chevy redesigned the suspension, with a fully independent, four link set up.
Most of the rest of the book focuses several other important, automotive safety issues. The book will forever be remembered as a book about the Corvair, but it brought up many critical safety issues which had nothing to do with the Corvair, such as: "The Second Collision" which occurs when unrestrained bodies are allowed to fly around inside of cars that are filled with chrome trimmed interiors and all metal dashboards. He talked about non collapsable steering columns, unforgiving, sharp instrument panels, non-safety glass in windshields, seat belts, door strength, roll bars, suicide doors. He talked about how the ornamental bumpers of the time would drag a pedestrian under the car, rather than bounce them off. He covered the industry focus on stylish design, at the expense of safety. The list of subjects goes on.The guy was kind of a hero in my book. He was so far ahead of his time, it was ridiculous.
Mark H You are correct. Chevy began addressing the problems that Nader pointed out, soon after the book came out. As I mentioned in my comments, Nader himself pointed out that the aftermarket already was selling suspension packages, which solved many of the problems with the Corvair. This fact helped to make Nader's point, which was this: The entire auto industry was ignoring known safety issues and concerns, which their own engineers usually addressed to upper management, only to be ignored, in favor of cost savings. It's very unfortunate that most people remember Nader's book as an anti-Corvair book. You should check out even a description of the book. Nader had this very forward thinking vision of how much safer cars could be, that we all take for granted today. Some people see the guy as a big buzz killer. But, he really was a visionary and pioneer in automotive safety.
Sky Marshall
Sorry, but he jumped on a lot of cars and called out the Corvair because of its rear weight bias, it had nothing to do with the suspension.
Rear engined cars would be prone to having the rear slide (it's called over-steer)
Yep even the top of the line Porsche, a gussied up VW, did it. Yes it could catch you off guard if you got a little exuberant
He claimed, incorrectly, that the car was prone to flipping. In dependent trials comparing the Corvair to another popular compact, the Ford Falcon. They did every maneuver that could think of in order to flip both cars, guess which one refused to flip. The Chevy. The car was exonerated in the end. Look down a little farther in the comments for my experiences with further explanations ofownins and upgrading a '63 Spyder.
Keep in mind that the VW had been on the road since before WWII and had the same setup with no serious problems.
It's been years since I watched this video and this car still gets me stirred up. Of all the cars featured on Big Muscle this one is my favorite. It's built to be driven exactly the way I want to drive. It looks pretty sharp too.
My old roomie and I built one of these around 35 years ago. The Crown kit consisted of a sub-frame, motor mounts, cooling system components, and a special input shaft so the stock transaxle could be used. A lot of fabrication was left to the owner, which is undoubtedly why a lot of them never got finished. Mine had a 327/365 HP solid-lifter `Vette engine, with a 3.55 Posi. It only weighed 2700 pounds, and embarrassed LOTS of flashy muscle cars.... :-)
YES. Some HISTORY on that infamous KIT. This info shoulda been in the vid for sure. THANK YOU.
p.s. I generally don't over-use capital letters, but in the case... :)
@Blackwaterdogs.... sir i am a lifelong VW and Porsche owner and lover of all that is aircooled and midengine.... my ? sir is how did yall flip the trans around internally?
obviously ive never had one apart nor even seen one personally and please understand im not doubting you or being hateful at all its an honest question.....
in the VW universe there are certain transmissions that can be flipped easily by just changing ring gear position or eliminating gear reduction boxes for example.....
@@porschetech72901 The Crown kit allowed for running the transaxle in the stock configuration, albeit at the cost of losing about 6 inches of legroom up front. There was another company at that time, named Kelmark, which offered a similar conversion kit, but theirs required flipping the transaxle over, which caused the ring gear to run "backwards" on the pinion. This caused concern about the reliability and longevity of the Kelmark design, even though it bought you some legroom. Most folks went with the Crown setup, and just bit the bullet on the legroom issue.
@ Grady P.S.: here`s a more recent video which provides different views & details. At around 6:30, you can see under the rear of the car, where you can see the stub of the custom input shaft that was supplied by Crown.
ua-cam.com/video/U2H6wW0Z1As/v-deo.html
Don't judge a Corvair by the POS clapped-out early 60's variant you had. I had a 1965 Corvair Monza and it was a great little car. Handled better than my T/A.
Little hahaahha that thing is well over 4.6 metres long. For us In Europe thats a Grand tourer lol
The mid-engine Corvair (65 and up only) was a great combination of a 4 wheel independent suspension, good power, and light weight. In other words it follows the formula for all great performance cars. The mid-engine swap was beneficial in that it moved the weight of the engine forward and reduced its polar moment. It also replaced the rather underpowered flat six with some small block HP. I helped build one in 1970-71 without benefit of the Crown kit. It was a pretty straight forward swap since the Saginaw 4-speed was commonly used behind small block Chevrolets. We did have to modify the input shaft and had to figure out how to get fluid to and from the front mounted radiator. The diff was pretty fragile and we cracked the case on the first one with an overzealous launch. The main reason for using the 65 and up (besides it's much better looks) was the pre 65's had a swing axel (like the early VW) with a u-joint inboard only whereas the 65 and up had a true IRS with u-joints inboard and at the hub. This meant the rear tires did not change camber angle when the tire moved up and down and lowered the roll center - much improved handling.
Cars like this really show where the inspiration of Japanese muscle cars of the late 60's - early 70's came from.
Smokey Yunick once said that properly set up a Corvair would handle "like a CAN-AM racer".
I know Im randomly asking but does anybody know of a method to log back into an instagram account..?
I was dumb lost my account password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me.
@Zayden Raphael Instablaster :)
@Malcolm Casey Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site on google and I'm trying it out now.
I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Malcolm Casey It did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thank you so much, you saved my account!
@Zayden Raphael no problem xD
Love this episode of Big Muscle, I have one and didn't realize how few are in the U.S. Makes me love my little V8Corsa even more!!!!
The Corvair was very close to the ideal runabout when first released, certainly, it was not less safe than its contemporaries and was to be America's VW Bug, but much better. Nader made a name for himself and most folks thought him a self-aggrandizing lawyer at best and that reputation came back to bite him when he ran for president. Our young presenter doesn't know his history but that's par for today.
GM got it right in the 70's with the Monza. Even won back to back IMSA Titles.
Exactly right.
Whoa?!!!!!!
I would only that Nader I on't believe Nader passed the BAR
Mike has a way of describing cars, conveys really well to the viewer. Keep up the great work and thanks for bringing these killer cars to our attention.
I never believed NADAR about these cars. My friends had to of the Spider's and they were awesome.
This episode resonated with me on two fronts- My grandfather, for a time, owned a Corvair (Much to my father's chagrin, considering that he accidentally said that it was a Corvette before it was delivered) but mostly because I know the roads you were driving on! At the top of the hill is a little college campus, and since housing was off-site, I drove up that hill every single day to get to my classes! Nice work on bringing on nostalgia, as well as a new-found respect for the lowly Corvair!
Evert time I watch one of BIG MUSCLE, it always puts a big smile on my face.
Early VW's and Corvairs had simple swing axle rear suspensions, fine for low power slow cars, but had handling issues as cars got faster. Later VW and Corvairs had independent rear suspension to address the issue. Nader's problem was with the swing axle design, which the later design fixed, but the damage was done.
Nadar's problem was that he was an idiot with an audience that was just as stupid as he was. The American public is, overall, pretty ignorant & gullible. Nadar attempted to run his BS on the Ford Mustang too, but got shut up real quick. I only saw one short paragraph about it in one magazine.
I had a 65 Corvair with a 140hp, 4 carb flat 6 and a Powerglide. Cool car, just popped the fanbelt a lot.
My dad was a Corvair fan having owned both 1st and 2nd generation examples back in the day. After he became "Corvairless" in the 70's I can remember him contemplating purchasing yet another Corvair. I was probably around 13 or 14 years old at the time and he took me along to go check out the car. I distinctly remember it because that car was one of the mid-engine V8 conversion Corvairs. What an unique car - kind of a shame that he didn't end up buying it. Good memories. Thanks for this video.
I love Corvairs in almost any form.
But I'm sorry...that paint and Lil Boy Racer Visor just kills the car. The performance is worth better visuals.
AGREED!
Keep judging this beaut
“Oh my God they got the motor in the backseat… that’s where Chevy should have put it, and maybe someday the Corvette will be that” you are a prognosticator my friend because that is where they put it.
You drove a pre 65 Corvair. the 65-69's were better, also better looking. I had both. Love your show. You can also put a v8 in a Fiero. Also very cool, in spite of your opinion.
+St White Putting a L67 in a Fiero is so much easier to work with.
I had a 62 monza 4spd. put is a big bore kit , log ram , AFB 4 BBL carb ieco quick shift link and steering , koni shocks and springs. for a corvair it was really good and fun to drive. Drove it from Long beach Calif. to Daytona Florida , approximately 52 hours for 2,700 miles .
I love how nearly every person who actually owns/drives a Corvair is here defending it against this mis-informed fellow. Dude, you probably do great stuff but The Corvair was not one of the worst cars ever by far. Secondly, if the early model you drove at 24hrs of LeMons was having so many issues, perhaps it was because you picked a 50 year old car and didn't prep it correctly for being on the track. Brakes pulling is hardly something you can blame on the model of car it was... That could happen to any car.
Hell, there are STILL guys out winning SCCA races in Corvairs. Or at least being VERY competitive.
+ryanintopeka Thanks for saying what I've been thinking!
Great episode Mike. Show just keeps getting better and better.
Ive built both a crown and a front engine corvair on a GM g-body frame. The crown conversion had way more crowd appeal because of the engine in the back seat. The differential is the weak point of the crown corvair when you get above 300hp. Hard launches break stuff. Awesome handling car with the independent suspension of the later cars.
You can see that Chuck is really proud of what he's made. Great work!
This car is insane, but I think the Yenko Stinger was a little cooler.
In appearance I agree, but with a 283 in it? Yoicks!
How could anyone dislike this show!!!! Love this show!!
Corvairs only had suspension issues until 1965 then they redesigned it, but the damage that Nader and the media caused caused sales to drop by over 50%. honestly, it's not a bad car. also you have to think ppl weren't used to having next to no weight in the front unlike most other cars out there.
It wasn't Nader that killed the Corvair, he just killed the resale value for a lot of people. What killed the Corvair was it didn't share enough (hardly anything) with other GM cars. Having so many unique parts and with more stringent safety and emission regulations coming along it wasn't worth it to GM to keep it in production.
Yeah, that does make sense. Not to mention the Mustang coming out and Chevy already having the Camaro lined up.
The Corvair got the fully independent rear suspension in 1964. Still in the original body style.
Brenndon McGill ot was the single u joint rear shafts that could bind also why some vw's and 64 and older rear wheels castered and cambered with weight looked like an overloaded trailer axle.
I had 2 68's when they were only a couple years old, absolutely loved them.
Damn that looks like a blast to drive. Mid engine must handle pretty well.
not a word about specific suspension changes.
the 283 chevy v8 is one of the best engines ever built out of the factory. Forged rods, forged crank, throw in some forged pistons. Top off with some built heads and roller rockers and titanium valves, mine revs to 7.5k no problem. Now it is only 340hp but it would put a smile on your face every time you rev it. Backed by a rock crusher 4 speed its a beast. Currently residing in a vega it tears the corners and strip.
The 65 is worlds ahead of the 64 even before the addition of the v8. The early Corvairs had single swingarm rear suspension (like the Triumph Spitfire and the VW bug) and would lead to extreme weight jacking and sudden oversteer. Funny how Nadar never mentioned th eVW in his book...
Nader did eventually take on the VW type Is and type IIs and it was pretty damning. Unsafe at Any Speed wasn't just a critique of the Corvair. It was a critique of the lack of safety engineering in the American auto industry in general.
I drove my dad's new red '66 Monza 110 coupe from the day he got it from the dealer for 7 years and tens of thousands of miles. Never in the shop, never broke down, and my ladies and I had lots of wonderful times in it. All I ever had to do in terms of repair was replace the pushrod tube seals. I was addicted to the sound of that flat six!
This is a totally ridiculous custom car. I love it!!
When I used to go to car shows with my dad I always liked the corvair. I'm glad to see a cool one.
So you drove a Corvair in the "24-hour of lemons" and that's your reference?
Obviously you never drove a well sorted out stock Corvair. I have a 63, and it's nothing like what you said.
Seriously the best car show on UA-cam! The true Top Gear US. Thank you once again for an awesome way to spend 11:17 seconds!
THAT IS THE MOST BADASS CAR EVER MADE IT LOOKS LIKE IT CAN PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE
Of course they are Unique, thats what makes the car community so nice, everyone has their own interests, I get that it may not be for you but the work that made this car is to be strongly appreciated and respected.
first off, the corvair was meant as a regular everyday car...not a muscle car. the Camaro was actually the next body style for the corvair. due to the death knell caused by that dickhead nader when the vair was axed they went ahead with the newer corvair body, put the engine in the front and called it the camero.
I grew up helping my dad restore old vairs...from Monza to greenbrier vans to rampsides...they friggin rocked.
highonimmi The Yenko Stinger Corvair
+highonimmi Because of that "dickhead" Nader, we have standard seat belts, padded dashboards and a load of other safety features that have saved a lot of lives. The poor safety of American cars at the time was no joke, man. The original rear suspension of the Corvair was independent fixed swingarm, so if tire pressure was a bit down and you hit a corner too fast the arm had a tendency to fold under and cause a rollover... Oh yeah, Ralph really took the fun out of driving.
Nader used this as a major example in his first book on American cars and their crap safety. GM knew about the rollovers and the cause, and wouldn't have done anything about it if Nader hadn't embarrassed them into it. As a result, to save face, they changed the rear suspension system to the great handling (and safe!) setup it had from '65 onwards...
But GM's mistake (yes, it was them who were the troublemakers - Nader was only the messenger) fucked the car's reputation for good. Had GM built the Corvair properly in the first place, instead of cutting corners as usual, Nader would have left it alone and it may have had a much longer run. A car company knowingly kills a load of its customers, and the guy who blows the whistle on that is the dickhead? Really? Please explain that one to me.
camcoop25 the problem with nader is when the corvair was improved he never went on the record with the same amount of gusto to let the american public know it was fixed. the early corvairs didn't have a design problem. the reason for the design was to eliminate the universal joints (pre 1968 vs beetles had the same design). the car needed to be driven by people who knew how to drive a car like that. the engineers wanted an anti roll bar put in the car thus eliminating the possibility injury due to rolling the car. the execs said no.
again the reason nader is a dickhead is he always pointed out things in cars but he didn't use the same energy to let people know when things were improved.
later in 1972 there was a safety commission report resulting from testing conducted by the investigative team from texas a & m university who compared the 1963 corvair with 4 contemporary vehicles: Renault dauphine, plymouth valiant, ford falcon and pre 1968 vw beetle + the second generation corvair. their findings co-oberated the findings of the 1971 NHSTA study that the early corvairs, "possessed no greater potential for loss of control than its contemporary competitors in extreme situations." a review panel concluded that the 1960-63 corvair did not have any more handling, rollover problems than its contemporaries.
also, nader had a hard on against swing axel rear suspensions (like the early corvair). guess who else had that same style during that time? ever hear of Porsche, Mercedes-benz or Volkswagen? why didn't he say anything about them in his book...that he wanted to make money on.
the gm people who bitched about the suspension were two disgruntled ex employees. one was an engineer who was miffed his idea of a roll bar was denied. the other was john de lorean. how far did he get on his shit?
where was nader on the studies results? quiet, that's what.
I have no problem when someone points out an aspect of a vehicle they think may need addressing. my problem is that when you see it in others say so and when it is corrected SAY SO with the same energy you did when you pointed the shit out.
I have driven early model vairs along with the later models. I knew the characteristics of their handling. I never had a problem with any of them. I was taught when you are faced with ground that has a sharp downward angle to steer towards the direction you're headed and then when safe to try and get back onto the road when the car won't roll over. simple and easy...just like when you slide on ice...steer towards the slide, remove your foot from the accelerator and don't touch the brake. when you have control then gently press the accelerator (if it's warranted) and drive out of the slide. I see tons of people don't do that...I don't blame the car....I blame the driver.
Without spending hours researching it, I can't refute your info on later safety tests...
But regarding Nadar, or any advocate or journalist - you could argue that his style of boon constitutes investigative journalism - it is not their role to praise companies or whoever for improving their game.
His job, in the case of "Unsafe at Any Speed" was to find fault with the American auto industry and its disregard for the safety of its customers. And by building public awareness to get legislation in place to make vehicles safer - which he achieved and which has been beneficial to the average car buyer in the long term.
Once the car company has been caught out cutting corners and generally being irresponsible assholes, it is their job to spend the effort and money informing the public that they have fixed the problem.
What was Nader supposed to do? Write a book called "Safer Now" ? No publisher would pick it up. He has certainly in interviews over the years acknowledged the vast improvement in automotive safety.
As for going after Porsches, etc... how many of those were being sold in the US at the time? He was going after the domestic car industry. Given that books have a limited number of pages, and also have to be paced and focused so that people will actually read them, he could hardly give an encyclopedic coverage of every car on the planet that had problems.
It is a long time since I read it, (by the way, have you read it? you may have, I don't know) but I don't recall him saying that the Corvair was the only dangerous car, or indeed the only one using this technology. He just picked that car as an example and ran with it.
Were there mistakes in the book? Most probably. There pretty much always are in journalistic exposes.
Did he draw attention to a problem that badly needed to be addressed? Absolutely. And that is my central point.
Nader's goal has never really been to enrich himself, so the book sales argument is a bit weak. It was a surprise bestseller.
He's worth a few million bucks - mostly from speaking engagements over the course of a 50 year timeframe of being well-known. An ex-president makes that much with 10 dinner speeches. Plenty of doctors have that sort of wealth.
He has given away a lot of the money he's earned. If he wanted to get rich, he certainly could have. Many companies he criticised (whom you seem to feel he should have praised after they complied with his demands), made substantial offers to come aboard as a "consultant" - meaning a guy paid to shut the fuck up.
And for the record, I love Corvairs, always have... especially the ones with the improved suspension... and you can thank Ralph Nader for that.
camcoop25 I prefer the pre 64s. don't care much for the later models. yes I read the book. why he didn't go after the ford or the Plymouth I don't know.
if he was looking out for the safety of drivers why not let them know that a car company has a pretty safe car? (especially after he said they weren't) he wasn't the only person saying cars needed to be safer.
my point is if your goal is to make driving a safer endeavor when a company improves their cars let the public know. it's just like when people report terribly defaming shit in a mag or a news paper...it's on the first page. the retraction they were wrong on the last one buried in amongst the obits.
Wow!! Amazing engine sounded nuts. So much time for this build.
I'm sorry, the Corvair isn't one of the worst cars ever.
I learned how to drive in my dad's Corvair and I really miss that car. We easily went up the snow covered New England hills when front engine vehicles were sitting still just spinning their wheels! Great car even stock!
Corvair - - UNSAFE ?? When did you start parroting Ralph Nadar ?? To call the Corvair one of the worst cars in history is just plain IGNORANT! ! The Corvair was always a GREAT car, even the early swing axle jobs. A Stock Corvair would corner better than a race prepped Corvette. Of Course they could be improved on, but they were damned good to begin with. I only owned one, a 1965 Corsa 140/4speed, and that thing was like a slot car going through curves & the straight line performance wasn't that bad either. I loved the oversteer. Cars that plowed were what I didn't like.
To call it a great car is as ignorant, a car with a swing axle IS dangerous on road, adaptative camber depending on the compressions is just plain stupid for the commoners. Add to that the lack of precision due to soft suspension control, and you've got a good car to cruise but bad to find the limit. So YOU liked it, but it doesn't make it a good car in the eyes of physics and safety, it makes it something that lives in your heart, and that makes for biased opinions. I'm the first one to love Chevrolets, but this one would be today's stock mustang or camaro, not a sports car, just a very enjoyable car.
You are the one who is showing ignorance here. First the early generation Corvair (with swing axle) was the first and only car to be deemed SAFE. The NHTSA put in place by Ralph Naders urging, heavily tested the EARLY model Corvair in 1972 against the other cars of the period and found it to be Safe. It is very easy to look these FACTS up. Second, olmon11 is referring to a LATE model Corvair that does not have Swing Axle suspension. It has full IRS! 65 and up Corvairs handle extremely well. 9 division Championships in SCCA against Porsches, Ferraris, etc. Check out a Yenko Stinger! Come watch a Corvair at an Autocross! Don't slam someone as making an ignorant statement when you clearly know nothing about Corvairs!
So you're saying that a Corvair is safer than for example a 2000+ car?
Um, that was not what you were implying in your comment. Your comment was about swing axles. I responded by giving you some information about early vs. late model Corvairs suspension and some testing regarding the Corvair. You seemed to be lacking knowledge in that area and perhaps you think that a Lawyer without a drivers license, nor a degree in engineering might know more about cars than the folks who build them. Perhaps you could do some research on how many cars utilize swing axle suspension other than 60-63 Corvairs and let me know your thoughts on how dangersous they are. Anyway, back on track here, my response was not about crumple zones, air bags, ani-lock brakes. As far as 2000+ Cars you can't really do an apples to apples comparison can you? I can tell you this, I know of a gentleman who was rear ended in a Corvair, was at a dead stop and hit from behind at 55mph. Happened three weeks ago and he is fine. Know of another gentleman who suffered the same and another who survived a head on collision in one. Are they safer? As far as technology in comparison to new cars, then of course not. But as I said earlier, that is not what your statement was about.
David Massieux
You just go from making one stupid statement right into making another. Go tell your Momma to slap you. You have no business commenting on the suspensions or roadability of any automobile.
BTW, I am certified in steering, braking and suspension systems for automobiles and light trucks. I spent almost 40 years working in the auto repair industry and I have done a fair amount of road racing & I set up my own cars. I KNOW what works, whats good & what isn't. The Corvair was GOOD. Even the Swing axle version was good. The independent rear suspension that they put on it from 1964 thru 1969 was just better.
I gotta admit im starting to love your shows hope you keep them coming the last mustang video with melair i belive was great and now this amazing but diffrent car loving it!
The Stevie Wonder flames are not pleasing. NOT. Would have rather it was just kept clean, the bronze color on the body was just fine, but it was like at the last minute someone let their ten year old kid loose with two inch wide masking tape, newspaper and a spray can. It's just unappealing and does not show case any talent. The car itself I LIKE.
paint it black !!!
Yeah, I would have gone with a cleaner look. Going garish is unnecessary. It wouldn't be any less car if it were classier looking.
Here's the key he did it it's his it belongs to him not to you, let's stick to what really matters?
The "stevie Wonder flames" are called scallops, & they're a popular street rod treatment. They work quite well on this vehicle, and are a bit more difficult to lay down than you realize.
You are okay, Mr. Musto. You truly are. That, and a whole lot more.
And Chuck Rust FTW. Thanks for letting us drool over your car. Fantastic execution.
humm got an idea 5 pot audi turbo with FWD transmisionin in the back would fit it nicley
This is a properly sorted car. As much as I like the 1000 hp cars Mike has tested, you can really use this cars power it is not just smoking the tires. Well done sir.
My cousin had a '65 Monza spyder when I was 11 he let my Daddy try it out with him in the passenger seat and me looking over the seat at the speedometer. Daddy shifted into 4th at about 110. The suspension was basically the same as the VW beetle and the porch of that day. To this day I believe nader took money to badmouth the corvair because it would have dug into the market of the VWs. If the vw had have been run off the embankment like radar's team was running off the corvair it would have rolled also. Probably those test are on utube somewhere. So much fraud in politics when the money is put into the right hand, even back then.
*Porsche
Nader's daughter died in one, thus the vendetta...I have one and it rides and drives nice, gets a lot of looks too
That explains it then.
Ted Schofield. Nader never has been married, never had children and has never even held a drivers license. Those are facts. So, I don't know where you got the idea that his daughter died in one but you are incorrect about that.
A '65 would have been a Corsa, had either a 140hp four carb or a180hp Turbo and 184 cubes.
My '63 put out 150 hp with a 149 CI, Was the first engine to make over 1 HP per cubic inch. The suspension (rear) had a mild upgrade in 64, the later ones mimicked the Corvette rear set up.
An absolute brilliant idea !
Great show again Mike, thumbs up.
actually there integra seats
Love these cars! A guy in my neighborhood had one of these V-8 conversions and it was super quick. In my case, my first car at 16 years old was
a 4 year old 1965 Corvair. It was great...Italian styling with a 6 cylinder, Porsche-esque drivetrain. People complained about the handling but it was partly due
to them not reading the owners manual. Front tirel pressure was quite a bit different from the rear spec...and if you ignored that, the car got squirrelly
in hard turning. Also, rear engine cars were not as well understood by the average person, so someone would back off the gas pedal in the middle of a
turn and wonder why the rear wanted to come around! I put a ton of miles on mine, and it never let me down. I'm restoring a Triumph TR-6 right now,
but I still dream about getting another Corvair. Really enjoyed this vid, thanks!
maybe the paint is not right
It indeed is fowl.
Genius! I like every single thing about this Corvair
This is how to convert a beautiful, interesting car into a ridiculous looking piece of metal. Only the engine's nice...
I agree, a back seat with a back engine in it, I don't like screwing up cars by making them freaks, it has nice lines, the paint job, tacky, the rear engine corvair stock, had lots of power anyway, why turn it into this, but if allyoure going to do it race it, do what you want, the corvair stock rear engine was very quick, and this worse car in history BS is just that B S...fkg racetards
Ted Schofield.....By 1965 they replaced the swing axles with full IRS and half-shafts. You just got to know how to drive a rear engine car. They can bite you. Hans Stuck & Walter Röhrl were masters at it.
or just simply drive it and enjoy it, we all like different things, I think this one is an abomination, fugly in fact, but...to each his or her own...not for me to screw up what o think is already a nice car...
Ted Schofield.....Agreed. Is that a ch107 450 SL?
***** 1977 450 SL 107, totally rebuilt engine, 9k miles on it, for sale of course...cheers, Ted
Thats a really cool car. Its great to see a car with crazy flaws become something useful & great. That paint job make it look like a autocross warrior.
As far as I can tell, he did replace the swing-axle rear end with proper suspension, which is what made it "unsafe at any speed" in the first place. So that problem is solved, which is good.
The rear suspension looks similar to the stock IRS in my '65 Kelmark v8 Corvair
The Corvair got a multi link IRS in 65. However, Swing axle rear suspensions were quite common on early rear engine cars. Many had it before Corvair used it. VW Beetle & Porsche had swing axles, the early 60s Pontiac Tempest was a frt engine, but still had a rear trans-axle with swing axle rear suspension.
The Corvair was never "Unsafe at any speed". It actually handled BETTER than the Corvette of the same era.
Ralph Nader was an idiot, sh_t for brains lawyer that didn't know anything about cars, but did know how to make a public stink & get publicity. IMO, Nader should have been shot when he first opened his stupid mouth.
That problem was solved with the second generation of Corvairs.
Jim King
I always thought the beetle had trailing arm suspension. Maybe I was wrong.
Justa218i - - Corvair changed the rear suspension in 1964 - The Gen II Corvair came out in 1965.
ManWithBeard - - Swing axle rear suspension, while not optimum, was not that much of a problem. The real problem was that Ralph Nader was a total ass-wipe that didn't know his arse from a hole in the ground about cars, but did know how to get publicity. www.carmagazine.co.uk/news/search-results/motoring-issues/the-porsche-911-the-car-that-shouldnt-work-but-does-part-1/
Met Chuck at the last corvair convention what a great guy nice talking to you Chuck and nice !! nice !! car.
Should have left the flat six in it and kept it stock.
Or did what he did because it's a million times better and it's his car stfu
Squirles G stfu? Are you even old enough to drive?
joe louden i wasnt being funny (:i was just telling you how it is
+Squirles G Okay children, I understand the point both of you are trying to make minus the bullshit bullets flying from both sides. Personally, I would have built this car as a Corsa Turbo but just updated with unequal-legnth upper and lower rear suspension geometry from probably something else GM has produced since, not some mid-engine v8 car, because that is not what the Corvair was supposed to be, so there I am with you, Joe. But Squirles, you are right in that it is his car and he can build whatever TF he pleases and perhaps it is great. I don't like it but it kicks the shit out of my 99 Taurus, so nothing but props from me even if it isn't my cup-o-tea.
+IPA Drinker Not to my PERSONAL taste either but major props on building what HE wanted out of HIS car. I also agree about the mudslinging in this string. Long live the individuals and their hotrod builds. Maybe one of these years I'll be able to afford to do another oddball build again myself.
Great and original car. One of the best of all episodes
Lol American engines. "This engine can rev and rev and rev" Changes up at 5000 rpm
By comparison to newer foreign engine's you are correct, However for an American V-8, a worked Chevy 283 with it's short stroke really does like the higher rpm's.... I'm sure this "Host" didn't want to beat on this guys car
Oh my. What a gorgeous & unique car! Simply knowing that this very car exists makes me giddy. Fantastic intro btw guys.
Worst Car in History. LOL. Stopped it after that, just rubbish mate.
Bull. Check out the Yenko Stinger on Jay Leno's Garage here on YT. If it was rubbish neither the Yenko Stinger nor the above would exist. GM just didn't take it far enough.
deltavee2
Yep!
Bullshit a&m in 1972 proved the safety was fine check your sources they had style
The 1960-1964 were swing axel design, which did leave them prone to wheel roll in the turn. They redesigned the suspension for the 65-69 to a full independent axel arrangement for an incredibly stable platform. The Corvair was a formidable racer and it's fan base are quite loyal. Once you have a proper Corvair (and it really doesn't take much) they are in for life. They are inexpensive to obtain and equally so to tweak. I bought my '66 Corsa for 6K and bought a rebuilt engine with a custom cam and oversized jets for the secondary carb and pulled 180 HP, which is amazing on a 1900 lb convertible. Nader's "Unsafe at any speed" was on the Mk I body style. His claims were later disputed in 1972, when a study compared the '63 to other contemporary and comparable platform vehicles. The Corvair was deemed to be as safe, or safer than it's competition. So, go drive one before you make a claim about the worst car ever. Save that for cars like the Pinto, Chevette, Reliant Robin, Yugos, PT Cruiser, Eagle Premiere, Dodge Omni, or any of the other total shit cars made.
Pretty much all of the rear engine swing axle cars had the same problem as the Corvair - Renault Dauphine, FIAT, and especially the Volkswagens. About the only swing axle cars that worked out well were the Mercedes, which were front-engined and wide track.
It was a damn shame GM decided to put their weight behind a Mustang imitation rather develop the Corvair into something that could compete with BMW or even Porsche.
Corvair is a fun car, even with a stock engine. I still have my first car, a '67 Monza 140, in my garage. Patiently awaiting restoration. This vid was shot in PV, not far from where I live. Makes me want to drop everything and get mine back on the road. Thanks for a great video!
The lack of craftsmanship is amazing. Horrid and amateurish.
There seems to be a lot of speculation in the comments. I'll add what I remember from when I drove Corvairs. The best explanation I heard about the demise of the Corvair was the expense of the engine and drivetrain was not competitive, too many parts, especially the engine, with the block in 2 pieces, individual cylinders, multiple carbs, ect. It just didn't add up when V8's were what people wanted and cheaper to produce. The baddest Corvair I ever drove was a 1969 with a 396 in the back seat, no engine cover or window either, scary with all that power only a few inches away.
Blech... Horrible paint and aluminum foil engine bay. Probably a fun ride... But, I wouldn't want to be seen in it.
aluminum foil , I dont see any aluminum foil . Thas not aluminum foil .
+Mark Rich Literal much?
+rrpostalagain
Yes I am . Much. It servers a purchase its not there to charge the flux capacitor.
Hideous.
When I first saw this back in summer, I've never heard of this chevy but damn, it's one of my fav cars now.
It took them a LONG time, but Chevy engineers finally saw the light, and created the mid-engine C8 Corvette, which has been terrorizing (MUCH more expensive) supercars for a couple of years now. A small group of forward-thinking enthusiasts did something similar almost a half a century ago (!) with the Corv-8 conversions. I lost count of all the "Muscle Cars" that were humbled by my lowly Corvair....,
I grew up in central Pennsylvania and the first cars i can remember were my dad's 55 Nomad and mom's 66 Corvair Monza Spider. That Corvair with dad's tweaks was FAST, cornered well, and still got decent mileage the rare times mom could keep her foot off the floor and from slam shifting through the gears.
I recall there was an Olds Tornado 445 fwd powered Corvair wagon running around the Lancaster/Berks areas of PA in the late 70's. Didn't corner well but was quick in a straight line.
Love that Corvair. Great job. Ralph Nader's blood pressure just redlined higher than the 283 in the backseat of the wonderful car.
That is such an amazing paint job on the Corvair.
Amazing episode, simple and beautiful machine. Well DONE!!!!!
Great to see one of these cars in motion. I can remember the ads in Hot Rod for the kit long before I had my driver's license.
I am a European and i always loved muscle car looks, but naturally i hated the way those cars moved in the corners, but this show makes me want to buy all of them and remake them so they work all the time, i would love to use this as my daily driver, and the noise they make it's like an angel playing heavy metal, Mike keep up the good work
This was great. Ironically when I was about 12, I built an AMC 1/25 scale model of this car. I had a hodgepod of parts and with my dremel and exacto, I was able to make it work. Amazing what some Testors glue and a little juvenile creativity will do. Fast forward 43 years and here's the car. Very cool!
Great episode. Definitely a sight to see a corvair with a mid-engine.
Hey Mike you're absolutely right! I'd never have considered a Corvair as a muscle ride until this episode. It'd have it all. Rare, well-performing (only in a V8), nice looking, historic, etc. Nice episode!
great ride! the stance looks wicked and the paint is beautiful with the body match wheels. sounds great, goes like a bat outta hell, and handles on rails. you out did the General, dude. bravo.
beautiful car and in my beautiful hometown. how much better can it get
Chuck is one of the nicest people in the Corvair community!
Awesome episode, wish there was more experimentation with MR configurations on american muscle, looks like a lot of fun!
Sweet ride. I'd love to have a corvair...yes just like this one. Beautiful.
When I was growing up in Woodbridge Va. There was a young guy that had an unreal corvair. It was just a sight to see along with twin turbos,Yes twins. This was way before its time like 88-90ish . I was just back for a visit when he pulled up next to me and left me starring at tail lights when the light went green. I was in a IROC-Z 28 w/350 auto that was not in stock form. Find this car and WOW what a show it would be.
Wow, what an amazing car. And such a cool guy too. Such a treat to get to drive it. Why don't I know more about this guy. Sweet car!
love these old guy stories with the cars
This car just looks sick. Very rare indeed and he did a good job of making it fast and safe, also reliable...
Superb episode as usual, guys! Gotta love how Big Muscle showcases these odd and attention-grabbing cars.
Back in the day, I wanted one of these, big time. But, I'm about your size. Even more, I also wanted a Griffith. Then, I went to buy one. After that BIG disappointment my buddy who was with me, kept juicing me saying, "Christ, I thought you were going to buy a car you had to take off your shoes to drive."
2nd gen Corvairs truly are GORGEOUS cars.
Omg! This car should not by any means work what-so-ever! But it sooo does.. The world is a better place with a rule breaking car like this. Way to go Chuck, what a wicked awesome machine. :)
My dad was a major face at Crown in the glory days, and I used to work there after high school. Earlier than that I got rides from Ted Trevor in the first Corv8's; awesome! All the VolksVair adapters, where you could put a Corvair in a Bug were pretty neat also. This is back in the days of the 'Bug In' at OCR... ah the old days!
Amazing work! This has been a dream built for me
Finally a new episode! Looking forward to next week!
Once you drive one of these,,, you will fall in love. I love mine!
I've been watching Big Muscle for quite a while now, and I have to say, I'm actually starting to think that this show is as good as Top Gear UK, and that's something. And I'm saying this as a European. Great work guys, BM rocks!
Great video, congrats Dad you've been working on that car a long time to get it where it is today.
That is one cool car! You can see and hear all the hard work Chuck has done. Someone needs to talk him into building a stout all aluminum 377ci with a set AFR heads for that thing.
WOW!!!!BADASS!!!!Everyone is going to want to Hot Rod Corvairs now!
My first 3 cars were Corvairs. Great little car. I wish I still had my last one. The V8 midship shoehorn is an intriguing idea, but a nightmare to work on, and expensive. What I'd like to see is a 400HP 2.5L 4Cyl turbocharged Subaru with intercooler, rear engine adapted, so the original back seat is kept, and the interior noise is reasonable. Those motors only weigh 300lbs with intercooler. That kind of conversion is only possible with a Corvair because of smog laws, and with a '65 you can do almost anything with no CAT required. A Subaru engine replacement would be incredible, running on E85 with 20lbs boost. It wouldn't have the greatest gas mileage, but better than a V8, and it would rip like no tomorrow. The only problem is water cooling, which is solvable if the V8 had water cooling.