@@badrockjones if you were an ambitious and talented young game dev who fancies yourself as 'a creative' wanting to establish your name in the industry, would you rather fine tune vehicles, real world tracks and handling physics in hyper realistic detail to be sold to a relatively niche and critically ignored market - or would you prefer to contribute your talents to open world games, RPGs, platformers etc? Games which tell a story, build a world, feed the imagination and sell on a much bigger scale. The likes of iracing, polyphony digital and Kunos have got to find a way to prioritise hiring creatively inclined employees without dropping the ball on the accuracy, realism and functionality side. Given that these studios, perhaps other than PD, don't have the financial resources of AAA studios developing the zeitgeist games, I think that's where the problem lies. I think the communities for racing sims also tend to be comprised of a certain type who nitpick visual and physics details, the absence of certain cars/tracks, online matchmaking functionality and various qol issues above whether the game is actually innovative or fun. These studios perhaps aren't getting the feedback they really need
@@Road2Raceras much as i want evo to be good so i can really go full on with it If it not I guess the new TXR should do the job then, campaign in TXR is always damn fun and full of hidden shit I hope it can go the same for this one
As a person who isn't interested in simulation, I think a career mode would be way more interesting than just racing around a track with no ends to means.
Fantastic, entertaining, topical. Great video man, and this absolutely needed to be said 😀👍 Gran Turismo 4 is 20 years old now and we still having nothing like its career mode on PC
Sometimes I dream about a racing sim with career mode & maybe even a story like NFS Prostreet. The idea of racing modified street cars while following BoP rules(say max. 500hp & min. 1200kg) at various decorated tracks around the globe to challenge the top-dog teams & dethroning the current "kings" would be mad fun. Prostreet had the career progression nailed.
Ams2 is working on career and project cars 2 had career if you can get hold of it. AC:EVO might have it? It's sad that all sim races only focus on hardcore esport
"I just want racing games to scare the shit out of me." That's my favorite point made about car ownership in this video!! I've played so many games/sims where there's little to no penalty at all for slamming into a wall. If these sims added REAL consequence to crashes like that (DNF, Car Maintenance, hell even the ability to permanently destroy it) would make you think twice about EVERY. SINGLE. MOVE. you make on track, thus making every risk that much more terrifying. It would add a much much much needed additional sense of risk weighing and long-term decision making that keeps people playing for hours at a time with no interest in putting it down.
Tbh, campaign modes are like classic racing games. I want an F1 game with modern graphics playing in like, the early grand prix racing games (late 1940s early 1950s). We got grand prix legends but that shit is old. Even if active.
I think a career mode where the main focus is reaching the highest levels of motorsport would be great for people who enjoy the competition and adrenaline given by racing. I think a career mode where you could choose your dream racing league (GT3, F1, etc.) and start in something small like karts or radicals and work your way up. It would teach you driving techniques along the way and encourage sportsmanship. You could have the opponents in this career mode be other sim racers or AI. Real people would be cool, but I think AI would be easier to execute. The difficulty would definitely have to increase over time and the final difficulty should be world-class. The closest I have seen to this is probably GT7's career mode, but it is still a disappointment. Hopefully Evo, GT8, or a future F1 game will bring us this.
This. It would also be cool to select your start region and lets you drive on smaller tracks there and later as you progress through the series you drive more on the well-known higher graded tracks.
i really miss that classic gt career mode. also buying the used cars and making them race worthy, made you feel like the underdog making victory sweeter. i really miss the motor city online setup, would have loved it with a career mode. but the ability to use the average catalog part or aquire a high output rare version only on the auction made it sweet. i still curse at ea for killing it off the servers for the initial release of the sims.
I've discussed this amongst Sim racers a few times. There's a weird amount of pushback against the idea of a campaign mode. People list of various reasons for actively being AGAINST a campaign mode and to me, none of them really make sense. I feel like more people are showing interest in it, but for a while, I mostly seemed to see people who actively did not want a campaign mode. -"I don't like grinding" but it's optional. You'd still have free drive and online. -"Its unrealistic." Winning money from races and buying cars is unrealistic? -"Go play gran turismo". I do. And I want the campaign experience with the physics and features of a full sim. Also what if I don't have a playstation? I don't think my only option should be to spend money on a Playstation for one game. Old GT? Old Forza? Probably not compatible with my sim rig. -"Sounds like a casual gamer" and other pointless insults. Racing sims for so long have only pushed for realistic physics, weather simulation, etc. Which is great, but at the end of the day, its still a game. And Sim Racing has been stagnant in that regard for over a decade. I'm dying for something that really makes me want to keep jumping back in the sim beyond just... the core gameplay. A progression system will push me to use my expensive rig more.
Project Cars 2 had a great career mode where you start with entryl level categories of racing cars and when you win championships you go up to the next category. There is a upgrade tree where you have to through a certain category to get to F1 for example you have to go through karting. It was great. Shame no other sim did it.
I totally agree with this! I can see iRacing never needing one. That’s all about the online experience, and does it great. Forza has one that can be somewhat enjoyable. I’m so pumped for AC Evo if done right, I’ll say bye bye to my sweet Forza Motorsport and this will be my main squeeze! ❤
I've felt this for a long time. There's no good reason why a game with serious simulator physics, detailed car setups and photorealistic graphics has to forego quirky single player challenges and addictive gameplay loops like Gran Turismo at it's best. GT's physics have come on leaps and bounds lately but at the same time they've forgotten how to make their career mode fun and immersive, and still have a long way to go with AI, though positive steps are being made Fingers crossed AC Evo will be that game and define the new standard for all other developers
Honestly... I'd prefer racing games having a cool story mode with different outcomes depending on your choices and performance on track more interesting than buying a car and just taking it out to whatever track you want. At the start of it you should just be a driver for different teams and then later on you can finally grind your way to your first own car. I think it would also cool to have more advanced management costs (travel costs, team costs, maintenance costs etc.). Otherwise there are some games that do it the more basic way like GT and Forza, or WRC, Dirt and F1 on the carreer side of things
I really thought this was Forza Motorsport's big opening. Whoops, they spent six years making half of an iterative sequel and the campaign specifically is terrible.
thank you for making this.. I switched recently to PC from GT7 and there is nothing out there for me at the moment, I've got my hopes up about EVO big time.. my Thrustmaster T300 is just collecting dust 😥.
I think that's what I'm saying. It's starting to feel robotic for me. LMU, ACC, Rensport. Yes, they are each have a different series, but it all feels copy and paste to me
great idea for video and i 1000000000% agree with you. that part where the bus slams the car into the wall was gold.🤣 start from nothing with a selection of 2 or 3 cars. Choose a 2 or 3 form of preferred racing be it time attack plain circuit race drift or even drag. earn money buy new parts and or new cars. progress until you are racing in formula GTP or GT which ever style strikes your fancy. depending on you progression should also open new styles of multiplayer racing.
I've never understood why everything is available at the start in sims. If developers are pushing for instant gratification, then it's massively contradicted by the fact that you actually have to learn extensively how to drive most of the cars. What's the use you have that McLaren F1 GTR right there in front of you if you can't accelerate for 100m without it doing donuts, or get clowned on by the community if you use all the assists to enjoy it?
You can't make a career mode for a sim game and lock cars Because it's about driving the cars and physics, even ACE will have all cars unlocked Because that's what a simulator.
I think you can have a career mode that is a "zero to hero" style. Where you work your way up. You could still go to quick race or multiplayer and do what you like with any car.
You could throw anything from the old Codemasters racing games in this List. All DTM/Toca games had a great Singleplayer experience. Heck, even GRID 1 and 2 had a good campaign
@@Road2Racer You won't regret it. But consider the TOCA series more a simcade way. But i clearly leans more in a accessible side. Besides of that, the experience is great for their time.
It’s all about progression for me and the #1 reason I got burned out of sim racing. Good physics and money based progression. No GT or Forza is not it. For now I’m enjoying farming simulator we’ll see how Evo unfolds.
I don't understand why people need something like this, I'd rather everything be unlocked and make my own fun then someone else pushing the grind to unlock stuff on me. If you want a carrier then make your own.
Both things can exist, though! Career mode for the purpose of progrssion and an open Sim for laps and multiplayer. They can both live under the same hood! Two separate modes.
@@Road2Racer As long as it doesn't force you to grind to "unlock" stuff that I can agree, but the sad part is that games that go that route tend to exploit that to make as much money as they can so the games become cancer.
@@Road2Racer I still think we are on the cusp of a sim racing boom. So I give us maybe a coin toss to see something like that in the coming years. We shall see!
If Sim Racing were like Pokémon, what would the 3 starters be?
Me personally: Gran Turismo, iRacing, and Dirt Rally. A mix for console and pc.
@@ArkticFox I can agree with this but only assuming you can afford iRacing, otherwise substitute it with assetto.
@@ArkticFox Im pretty sure he meant what cars would be the starters.
@@parker73724 No funds for iRacing but it does have a big player base though Assetto is a good shout 🤔
a C4 Vette, an ND Miata, and a Mk6 Golf GTI. Maybe.
The Venn diagram for "people who make good racing sims" and "people who make good video games" seems to be two separate circles.
@@badrockjones if you were an ambitious and talented young game dev who fancies yourself as 'a creative' wanting to establish your name in the industry, would you rather fine tune vehicles, real world tracks and handling physics in hyper realistic detail to be sold to a relatively niche and critically ignored market - or would you prefer to contribute your talents to open world games, RPGs, platformers etc? Games which tell a story, build a world, feed the imagination and sell on a much bigger scale.
The likes of iracing, polyphony digital and Kunos have got to find a way to prioritise hiring creatively inclined employees without dropping the ball on the accuracy, realism and functionality side. Given that these studios, perhaps other than PD, don't have the financial resources of AAA studios developing the zeitgeist games, I think that's where the problem lies.
I think the communities for racing sims also tend to be comprised of a certain type who nitpick visual and physics details, the absence of certain cars/tracks, online matchmaking functionality and various qol issues above whether the game is actually innovative or fun. These studios perhaps aren't getting the feedback they really need
I really hope Evo will be all this, then i wil never leave my Sim Room
I keep my expectations tempered 😅
@@Road2Raceras much as i want evo to be good so i can really go full on with it
If it not
I guess the new TXR should do the job then, campaign in TXR is always damn fun and full of hidden shit
I hope it can go the same for this one
As a person who isn't interested in simulation, I think a career mode would be way more interesting than just racing around a track with no ends to means.
I feel like it also opens the gates for those who are not into racing, to become interested.
Fantastic, entertaining, topical. Great video man, and this absolutely needed to be said 😀👍 Gran Turismo 4 is 20 years old now and we still having nothing like its career mode on PC
Sometimes I dream about a racing sim with career mode & maybe even a story like NFS Prostreet.
The idea of racing modified street cars while following BoP rules(say max. 500hp & min. 1200kg) at various decorated tracks around the globe to challenge the top-dog teams & dethroning the current "kings" would be mad fun. Prostreet had the career progression nailed.
That's would be killer. Great game.
@@Road2Racerwe all are craving for the same thing
Pro street is king of vibes ngl
Ams2 is working on career and project cars 2 had career if you can get hold of it. AC:EVO might have it? It's sad that all sim races only focus on hardcore esport
PC/PC2 still my favorite sim racing career, all the choices in career path, and you are only a driver, not a manager.
@automaton450 I loved toca 3 career as well.
"I just want racing games to scare the shit out of me."
That's my favorite point made about car ownership in this video!! I've played so many games/sims where there's little to no penalty at all for slamming into a wall. If these sims added REAL consequence to crashes like that (DNF, Car Maintenance, hell even the ability to permanently destroy it) would make you think twice about EVERY. SINGLE. MOVE. you make on track, thus making every risk that much more terrifying. It would add a much much much needed additional sense of risk weighing and long-term decision making that keeps people playing for hours at a time with no interest in putting it down.
That quote is from a video called "why racing games feel slow". MuYe is a great creator, check it out!
@Road2Racer i will! Thank you for the recommendation!!
Tbh, campaign modes are like classic racing games. I want an F1 game with modern graphics playing in like, the early grand prix racing games (late 1940s early 1950s). We got grand prix legends but that shit is old. Even if active.
'RimSim, rated X for everyone!' 😂 Agreed, campaign is always a nice addition.
RimSim is the future.
I think a career mode where the main focus is reaching the highest levels of motorsport would be great for people who enjoy the competition and adrenaline given by racing. I think a career mode where you could choose your dream racing league (GT3, F1, etc.) and start in something small like karts or radicals and work your way up. It would teach you driving techniques along the way and encourage sportsmanship. You could have the opponents in this career mode be other sim racers or AI. Real people would be cool, but I think AI would be easier to execute. The difficulty would definitely have to increase over time and the final difficulty should be world-class. The closest I have seen to this is probably GT7's career mode, but it is still a disappointment. Hopefully Evo, GT8, or a future F1 game will bring us this.
This is the dream.
This. It would also be cool to select your start region and lets you drive on smaller tracks there and later as you progress through the series you drive more on the well-known higher graded tracks.
That's literally the career mode of Project Cars 2.
@@davis1228 I've never played it before, maybe I should get it
@@driftingmajix Good idea
I am so glad that assetto corsa will feature it, it has always bother me about most simracers
i really miss that classic gt career mode. also buying the used cars and making them race worthy, made you feel like the underdog making victory sweeter.
i really miss the motor city online setup, would have loved it with a career mode. but the ability to use the average catalog part or aquire a high output rare version only on the auction made it sweet. i still curse at ea for killing it off the servers for the initial release of the sims.
Someone made a career mode outside the sim called Racing Life for AMS 2 and DDF Racer has done series on youtube doing this
It socks. I've tried it. Its not fully integrated with the game. Very copy paste kinda stuff
Yeah, if your okay with the leg work it's great!
The great thing about career modes in race sims is they force you to try cars/tracks you might otherwise never try.
This.
I've discussed this amongst Sim racers a few times. There's a weird amount of pushback against the idea of a campaign mode. People list of various reasons for actively being AGAINST a campaign mode and to me, none of them really make sense. I feel like more people are showing interest in it, but for a while, I mostly seemed to see people who actively did not want a campaign mode.
-"I don't like grinding" but it's optional. You'd still have free drive and online.
-"Its unrealistic." Winning money from races and buying cars is unrealistic?
-"Go play gran turismo". I do. And I want the campaign experience with the physics and features of a full sim. Also what if I don't have a playstation? I don't think my only option should be to spend money on a Playstation for one game. Old GT? Old Forza? Probably not compatible with my sim rig.
-"Sounds like a casual gamer" and other pointless insults.
Racing sims for so long have only pushed for realistic physics, weather simulation, etc. Which is great, but at the end of the day, its still a game. And Sim Racing has been stagnant in that regard for over a decade. I'm dying for something that really makes me want to keep jumping back in the sim beyond just... the core gameplay. A progression system will push me to use my expensive rig more.
Project Cars 2 had a great career mode where you start with entryl level categories of racing cars and when you win championships you go up to the next category. There is a upgrade tree where you have to through a certain category to get to F1 for example you have to go through karting. It was great. Shame no other sim did it.
I need to check this out! Does it have wheel support?
@Road2Racer yes of course. It uses the same engine as AMS2. The problem is I think it was unlisted from Steam so I am not sure how you can get it.
this is a well made argument/video, well done :)
I totally agree with this! I can see iRacing never needing one. That’s all about the online experience, and does it great. Forza has one that can be somewhat enjoyable. I’m so pumped for AC Evo if done right, I’ll say bye bye to my sweet Forza Motorsport and this will be my main squeeze! ❤
I've felt this for a long time. There's no good reason why a game with serious simulator physics, detailed car setups and photorealistic graphics has to forego quirky single player challenges and addictive gameplay loops like Gran Turismo at it's best.
GT's physics have come on leaps and bounds lately but at the same time they've forgotten how to make their career mode fun and immersive, and still have a long way to go with AI, though positive steps are being made
Fingers crossed AC Evo will be that game and define the new standard for all other developers
I agree with all of this.
I think because they prioritize the physics and multiplayer and graphics makes it hard to develop a campaign mode.
Honestly... I'd prefer racing games having a cool story mode with different outcomes depending on your choices and performance on track more interesting than buying a car and just taking it out to whatever track you want. At the start of it you should just be a driver for different teams and then later on you can finally grind your way to your first own car. I think it would also cool to have more advanced management costs (travel costs, team costs, maintenance costs etc.). Otherwise there are some games that do it the more basic way like GT and Forza, or WRC, Dirt and F1 on the carreer side of things
This is great.
Ive sacrifice my entire extended family by now
🤣🤣
I really thought this was Forza Motorsport's big opening. Whoops, they spent six years making half of an iterative sequel and the campaign specifically is terrible.
That’s why after drifting on ac and racing for hours on acc I relax by playing Forza
thank you for making this.. I switched recently to PC from GT7 and there is nothing out there for me at the moment, I've got my hopes up about EVO big time.. my Thrustmaster T300 is just collecting dust 😥.
I do love the sims that I play but I wish they had more.
having something like a story would be good yes??
That's why there is different games. If every dev did the samething it will start to feel robotic.
I think that's what I'm saying. It's starting to feel robotic for me. LMU, ACC, Rensport. Yes, they are each have a different series, but it all feels copy and paste to me
Where would one get Racing Life? Is it a paid mod or free? I’m new to Automobilista 2. iRacing is too expensive but the AI seasons are pretty decent.
There is a link in the description! Warning: it requires leg work. Basically you report back to it after races.
@ appreciate it. Never thought to look in the description.
great idea for video and i 1000000000% agree with you. that part where the bus slams the car into the wall was gold.🤣
start from nothing with a selection of 2 or 3 cars. Choose a 2 or 3 form of preferred racing be it time attack plain circuit race drift or even drag. earn money buy new parts and or new cars. progress until you are racing in formula GTP or GT which ever style strikes your fancy. depending on you progression should also open new styles of multiplayer racing.
Would be awesome! I like the Pokémon method. 🤣 Pick your starter!
@Road2Racer
Mazda mx5 ('93) for race
BMW E46 ('89) for drift
Ford mustang ('93) for drag
yes please, I love a good campaign
Next level would be a short or long story mode about dramatic enthuasistic turned in to racing driver 😂 not NFS basics, something else 😀
I've never understood why everything is available at the start in sims. If developers are pushing for instant gratification, then it's massively contradicted by the fact that you actually have to learn extensively how to drive most of the cars. What's the use you have that McLaren F1 GTR right there in front of you if you can't accelerate for 100m without it doing donuts, or get clowned on by the community if you use all the assists to enjoy it?
I'm so glad to be mentioned here! 🔥
Love your work!
You can't make a career mode for a sim game and lock cars Because it's about driving the cars and physics, even ACE will have all cars unlocked Because that's what a simulator.
I think you can have a career mode that is a "zero to hero" style. Where you work your way up.
You could still go to quick race or multiplayer and do what you like with any car.
I'm going to admit up front, i really am ok with receiving everything from the get go.
And that's okay!
I nearly sacrificed my marraige when my wife saw my racing (aka virginity) gloves 😂
Haha! I got criticized when I got gloves as well 🤣
for ownership of cars, parts etc, I think blockchain and tokenisation is the way to go until now ... i'll wait and hope !
I know nothing about this subject
Anything that resembles TOCA Race Driver 3. Id be happy. IYKYK
You could throw anything from the old Codemasters racing games in this List. All DTM/Toca games had a great Singleplayer experience. Heck, even GRID 1 and 2 had a good campaign
@@Burit096 they were by far the gold standard.
Im going to look it up.
@@Road2Racer You won't regret it. But consider the TOCA series more a simcade way. But i clearly leans more in a accessible side. Besides of that, the experience is great for their time.
@@Road2Racer do it brother. Codemaster was the best at career racing.
It’s all about progression for me and the #1 reason I got burned out of sim racing.
Good physics and money based progression. No GT or Forza is not it.
For now I’m enjoying farming simulator we’ll see how Evo unfolds.
Farming sim looks fun tbh.
@@Road2Racer It's too much fun.
The latest title FS25 wow.
Its not just sim racing. Gaming in general for the last decade is in the dumpster. Do the least. Charge the most.
Cause pc gaming sucks
That was an easy subscribe
Luv you.
Iracing fixes this
How so? Do they have a deep career mode?!
i sold my kidney to buy my 4090 now iam going to run out of body parts to buy a racing rig and tip which body parts you dont need ?
So you're saying you have another kidney??? Sounds like you have plenty left to sell.
Games like Assetto Corsa are horrible games as they're just hotlapping gmod ah sandbox that you have to mod for any basic funcionality
Ooooffff. I'm not gonna lie, I love AC for that reason. Also, it's an incrediblely easy game to mod nowadays.
I don't understand why people need something like this, I'd rather everything be unlocked and make my own fun then someone else pushing the grind to unlock stuff on me.
If you want a carrier then make your own.
Both things can exist, though! Career mode for the purpose of progrssion and an open Sim for laps and multiplayer. They can both live under the same hood!
Two separate modes.
@@Road2Racer As long as it doesn't force you to grind to "unlock" stuff that I can agree, but the sad part is that games that go that route tend to exploit that to make as much money as they can so the games become cancer.
@RelaxSimmer and... that is the truth. Unfortunately we would never have it both ways.
Can't wait for AC Eh~vo🤌I'm still waiting for a sim that could make me feel the way Gran Turismo 4 did
Part of me thinks those days are gone. But we can dream.
@@Road2Racer I still think we are on the cusp of a sim racing boom. So I give us maybe a coin toss to see something like that in the coming years. We shall see!