This smacks of deliberate negative propaganda to me. If what this video claims were in fact true, the species would not have survived for Four Hundred Thousand years? (Much longer than modern man has been around)
Think about uncontacted tribes, in the amazonian region for example. Sometimes with an estimated number of around 300 people, but living their lives isolated for hundreds, maybe thousands of years.
They lived that long because they didn’t have to compete with a more genetically diverse and larger homo sapien groups. It makes sense that with a much larger history they were absorbed into Homo sapiens
@@thewatchman6074 I don't think this is negative. I also think the population estimates for Neanderthals is extremely low and you stated one of my reasons. It's only logical. Also population density is generally linked to food availability. There were plenty of animals for an intelligent tool making apex predator in Eurasia to thrive. Geographic isolation in some groups would have been inevitable and led to genetic problems arising from inbreeding and eventually population collapse in those locations. We only have a tiny fragment of a snapshot of the time periods on question and most of what we are told by archeology is pure speculation. One of my favorite sayings is We haven't dug up the entire earth.
Neanderthals didn't just disappear from inbreeding, they disappeared from mix breeding With a larger population, And Some others Still inbreed to this day Not knowing their half-siblings😅
How could a pattern like this be sustained for 400 thousand years? Surely it would have caused major issues within just a few generations if it were a persistent thing? Look at the Habsburg’s. Any thoughts on the matter? Are we able to determine if this was a long established pattern going back to the split, ir if it occurred more rapidly towards the end? Seems to go hand in hand with the inclination to isolate/distrust of other groups.
There probably wasn't any thought of birth control and survival rates of children or babies was part of nature. People in the 50's had 10-12 children and it was known to have miscarriages and or child not survive.
Other hominid cultures that even hybritisized into, likely hunted the wild bunge to take it to a 'Wizards Tower'. To praise their godshaman priest kings. Just a guessing.
Neanderthal mating patterns seem to have been like small-scale human groups that practice cousin marriage. Organized in small hunter-gatherer bands of 1-2 dozen people or 3-5 families, related bands likely gathered at regular clan meetings and there was next to bartering and news/technology exchange probably a mating chance for the interested.
That's entirely imaginary, and basic knowledge. It's more accurate to understand that we (scientists) don't have much evidence to hypothesize on behavioral or social dynamics. H neandertalensis were obviously a different species of hominin than H sapiens, otherwise the offspring wouldn't have been hybrids. Reproductive compatibility or fertility is a secondary aspect of hybridization dynamics. Hybridization only occurs when two different species within a common genus intermix. Otherwise the narrative in this video narrative basically asserts neandertalensis was simply a degenerate form of H sapiens... Inbred, impacted wisdom teeth, compression fracture (all weak examples of so called inbreeding. The narrative suggests that homozygosity is in all instances a indication of harmful inbreeding, it is not uncommon in wildlife isolated or with small environmental carrying capacity. The bias is in over anthropomorphizing an h sapiens model upon a different species. Even the neandertalensis brain morphology and ear bones are different than H sapiens, as are the hormonal profiles and metabolisms etc. Too many folks are impressed with sci fi novel and LOR fantasy interpretations as unanimous and conclusive scientific fact. It's fun but hardly good forensic interpretation.
In Spain too, not only in the Altai mountains, a group of Neanderthals lived in a cave. And in some other caves as well. All these groups lived in autarcy, inbreed, not interacting between them, at least to reproduce. Several skeletons/remains showed that children were made by a father with his daughter. The physical deformities were notable to severe, type Mongolian. They needed so much meat, that they were not ready to share with any outsider.
"Junk DNA". That term has been bothering me. We know that chicken and human embryos initially look similar until they start to differentiate a few days/weeks later. Could "junk DNA" be essentially a evolutionary record of a species that is only active in the first few days or weeks after conception? And to the point of the video - is it possible that "inbreeding" is a sort of "hail mary" genetic attempt to reach back into the "junk" evolutionary gene pool and try for a 5 or 10 % chance at producing a genetic winner that vaults the inbreeding group out of their progression toward genetic demise? Is there any accounts or statistic of inbreeding resulting in an occasional exceptional result. Is there any account or statistic of inbreeding resulting in a throw-back to say gills or fur or tails?
Since they were so close together, maybe they looked at life very similar to royalty of the medieval times. If you can’t keep it in your pants, keep it in the family lol.
I have to believe nature played a roll in the outcome. only the strong would survive and inbreeding probably turned out handicapped offspring that would not survive the harshest life's dealings. Then traveling to find food constantly should have introduced new meetings among groups. Survival rates may also have trimmed the herd also as the week could not sustain.
I'm curious if anyone has considered the role disease may have played as homosapians moved into Neanderthal territory may have brought in new diseases that contributed to there decline and the survivors were probably absorbed by the larger homosapian population .
I doubt disease was a factor because it took 1000s of years for migrations rather than crossing the Atlantic in weeks so anyone carrying disease would not live
Personally i think the estimates of overall population are low. Calling Neanderthals cave people isnt accurate. They made huts out of mamoth bones etc not all lived in caves and the climate greatly affects the fossilization process for certain. Also, it is easier to excavate a cave because its smaller than a whole forest. We havent dug up the whole earth. All in all ive been impressed with this content.
Population density depends greatly on food availability. There was plenty of food in Europe for an intelligent tool weilding apex predator. Sure many were geographically isolated which probably led to inbreeding and genetic collapse causing much smaller populations in certain locales.
Boomerangs definitely took place. The legend of Mjølnir is based on a vikings hammer shaped boomerang. And with cultures, they settle, and they will try to return to any worthy place lost, even thousands of generations later. Fact.
Egyptian Pharaos, like Cleopatra were also pretty inbred but she was apparently intelligent ruler and spoke several languages. Modern royalty in Europe are also all closely related but relatively few of them have had medical issues.
There is reportedly some debate about whether Neanderthals were a separate species. Google search results say that they were. However, Neanderthals were close enough to us that I like the idea that they were a sub-species. It is common for people of European ancestry to have a little bit of Neanderthal DNA. Someone I know did a genetic test that showed a higher-than-average percentage of Neanderthal DNA. Genetic diversity is a good thing regardless of the species. It can help a group survive environmental changes. Under harsh conditions, some individuals die off and some survive. (Mother Nature is a bitch. 🙂)
I think the relationship between Neanderthal groups was probably as predators that is they either ate each other or bred with captured females. I would be interested to know whether mitochondrial inheritance has been studied regarding breeding between homo sapiens and neanderthalensis. It would give an indication as to whether male neanderthals bred with sapiens females or vice versa.
Same species, different group: Homo sapiens neanderthalensis The only anthropologists that regard neanderthalers as “subspecies” are anthropologists who think anatomical differences warrant subspecies or species separation. This line of thinking invariably leads to the Pandora’s box of discrimination and separation of contemporary human groups by the same process. Since reply has been blocked: The use of the term Neanderthalensis is a bit of jest. I could call Eskimos Eskimoensis, which would be silly. Such terms are fraught with technical and moral problems. Neanderthalers clearly bred with the moderns. Realistically, we can’t escape our DNA.
@richardwalton6993 No. But since you added a subspecies name, you seemed to be drawing a subspecies distinction between homo sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neanderthalensis. At any rate, Neanderthals are far more genetically distant from modern humans than any two modern human groups are from each other.
@@johnrichardson7629 The neanderthalensis addition is a bit of humour. I could call Eskimos eskimoensis, but I wouldn’t. Sounds silly, but the way the segregationists have gone at it is technically and morally fraught with problems. Main reasoning centres around the fact that we clearly bred with Neanderthalers: we cannot escape our DNA.
The use of the term Neanderthalensis is a bit of jest. I could call Eskimos Eskimoensis, which would be silly. Such terms are fraught with technical and moral problems. Neanderthalers clearly bred with the moderns. Realistically, we can’t escape our DNA.
While one is a pre-human species into hybridisation, and the other a mixed race culture of different orientated mentals. Yamnyan and Courded Ware is another thing like that.
It sounds like our Neanderthal friends were the very first Trailer Park Boys haha! Well inbreeding under their circumstances should probably be expected when you think it and like you pointed out it was likely a contributing factor in their demise.
The factors that explain the disappearance of the Neanderthals are not unique. The demanding diet (4,000 calories) of Neanderthals, who ate a lot of meat. The small size of their groups (a few dozen, and sometimes a few more during gatherings). Inbreeding, due to the difficulty of exchanging females. Certain genetic dispositions meant that interbreeding with female Homo sapiens resulted in few male offspring. A less complex brain, even though its volume was greater than that of homo sapiens. One might almost say that the disappearance of the Neanderthals had been programmed from the moment Homo sapiens appeared.
My Dna tests came back showing I'm 98 % NW European. My son of a Japanese woman had twice the Neanderthal dna I had. So much for the theory of Europe being the origin od Neanderthalic dna in my mind.
I fail to see anything dark about what Neanderthal man did. After all they lived in small groups, ad did not have any other choice. And having some Neanderthal genes in myself I respect them as my ancestors.
I think the most obvious reason for the Neanderthal extinction was the loss of large prey. They were 70% meat eaters so it stands the reason without big pray They wouldn’t make it
A nice presentation. Two comments: inbreeding has been painted as detrimental. But this is only partially appropriate because if a population has adapted well to a specific environment even by inbreeding, the bad genes have gone. Most clearly seen in inbred mouse strains which are the survivors of inbreeding. But adapting to new environment becomes genetically impossible unless new genetic variation is created. The second point refers to the reproductive strategies of Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals. Cro-Magnons did show a boost of reproduction some 30'000 years ago and perhaps they out-copulated Neanderthals. At least I am not aware of Neanderthal art showing phallic and Venus figurines but then Cro-Magnons were fond of them (after the Neanderthals disappeared). Just to ponder....
The "values"that must offend you for some reason, is also genetically offending. Inbreeding cause so many health problems, and if you don't believe me look up the Habsburg jaw. I'm not sure why inbreeding conversations upset you so much, hmmmmm
This smacks of deliberate negative propaganda to me. If what this video claims were in fact true, the species would not have survived for Four Hundred Thousand years? (Much longer than modern man has been around)
Recent research suggests Neanderthals mixed into Homosapiens.
Think about uncontacted tribes, in the amazonian region for example. Sometimes with an estimated number of around 300 people, but living their lives isolated for hundreds, maybe thousands of years.
@@DerEumel86 Doesn't that prove the point of @thewatchman6074?
They lived that long because they didn’t have to compete with a more genetically diverse and larger homo sapien groups. It makes sense that with a much larger history they were absorbed into Homo sapiens
@@thewatchman6074 I don't think this is negative. I also think the population estimates for Neanderthals is extremely low and you stated one of my reasons. It's only logical. Also population density is generally linked to food availability. There were plenty of animals for an intelligent tool making apex predator in Eurasia to thrive. Geographic isolation in some groups would have been inevitable and led to genetic problems arising from inbreeding and eventually population collapse in those locations. We only have a tiny fragment of a snapshot of the time periods on question and most of what we are told by archeology is pure speculation. One of my favorite sayings is
We haven't dug up the entire earth.
Neanderthals didn't just disappear from inbreeding, they disappeared from mix breeding With a larger population,
And Some others Still inbreed to this day Not knowing their half-siblings😅
I have to correkt u, they do know😂
@@michaelbrandstetter7479 KEEP IT IN THE FAMILY. LIKE THE ROYAL FAMILY IN ENGLAND AND THEIR HEMOPHOBIC TRAITS.
How could a pattern like this be sustained for 400 thousand years? Surely it would have caused major issues within just a few generations if it were a persistent thing? Look at the Habsburg’s.
Any thoughts on the matter?
Are we able to determine if this was a long established pattern going back to the split, ir if it occurred more rapidly towards the end? Seems to go hand in hand with the inclination to isolate/distrust of other groups.
There probably wasn't any thought of birth control and survival rates of children or babies was part of nature. People in the 50's had 10-12 children and it was known to have miscarriages and or child not survive.
Other hominid cultures that even hybritisized into, likely hunted the wild bunge to take it to a 'Wizards Tower'. To praise their godshaman priest kings. Just a guessing.
Probably they were more like cats
You're absolutely right . This pattern couldn't exist .
So interesting and thought provoking..I feel we have only scratched the surface of this big subject...
Neanderthal mating patterns seem to have been like small-scale human groups that practice cousin marriage. Organized in small hunter-gatherer bands of 1-2 dozen people or 3-5 families, related bands likely gathered at regular clan meetings and there was next to bartering and news/technology exchange probably a mating chance for the interested.
We showed up in groups of 50 to 200.
As it was in "Clan of the Cave Bear". 😊
That's entirely imaginary, and basic knowledge. It's more accurate to understand that we (scientists) don't have much evidence to hypothesize on behavioral or social dynamics.
H neandertalensis were obviously a different species of hominin than H sapiens, otherwise the offspring wouldn't have been hybrids.
Reproductive compatibility or fertility is a secondary aspect of hybridization dynamics. Hybridization only occurs when two different species within a common genus intermix.
Otherwise the narrative in this video narrative basically asserts neandertalensis was simply a degenerate form of H sapiens... Inbred, impacted wisdom teeth, compression fracture (all weak examples of so called inbreeding.
The narrative suggests that homozygosity is in all instances a indication of harmful inbreeding, it is not uncommon in wildlife isolated or with small environmental carrying capacity. The bias is in over anthropomorphizing an h sapiens model upon a different species.
Even the neandertalensis brain morphology and ear bones are different than H sapiens, as are the hormonal profiles and metabolisms etc.
Too many folks are impressed with sci fi novel and LOR fantasy interpretations as unanimous and conclusive scientific fact.
It's fun but hardly good forensic interpretation.
More alike: In a Land before Time _becomes_ The Descent
Another great video.
In Spain too, not only in the Altai mountains, a group of Neanderthals lived in a cave. And in some other caves as well. All these groups lived in autarcy, inbreed, not interacting between them, at least to reproduce. Several skeletons/remains showed that children were made by a father with his daughter. The physical deformities were notable to severe, type Mongolian. They needed so much meat, that they were not ready to share with any outsider.
"Junk DNA". That term has been bothering me. We know that chicken and human embryos initially look similar until they start to differentiate a few days/weeks later. Could "junk DNA" be essentially a evolutionary record of a species that is only active in the first few days or weeks after conception? And to the point of the video - is it possible that "inbreeding" is a sort of "hail mary" genetic attempt to reach back into the "junk" evolutionary gene pool and try for a 5 or 10 % chance at producing a genetic winner that vaults the inbreeding group out of their progression toward genetic demise? Is there any accounts or statistic of inbreeding resulting in an occasional exceptional result. Is there any account or statistic of inbreeding resulting in a throw-back to say gills or fur or tails?
It's more like an evolutionary "recycle bin" for the organism to pull from. I think they are finding now that "junk DNA" isn't really junk..
It comes from viruses, not from evolution.
Excellent video. Many thanks.
👍⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐EXCELLENT WORK I LOOK FORWARD TO NEW VIDEOS!
Since they were so close together, maybe they looked at life very similar to royalty of the medieval times. If you can’t keep it in your pants, keep it in the family lol.
I have to believe nature played a roll in the outcome. only the strong would survive and inbreeding probably turned out handicapped offspring that would not survive the harshest life's dealings. Then traveling to find food constantly should have introduced new meetings among groups. Survival rates may also have trimmed the herd also as the week could not sustain.
I love all of the “thought to have” or “may have” facts the scientific community puts out.
Its not the scientific community . It's crazy people with political agendas attempting to rewrite science to suite themselves .
I'm curious if anyone has considered the role disease may have played as homosapians moved into Neanderthal territory may have brought in new diseases that contributed to there decline and the survivors were probably absorbed by the larger homosapian population .
I doubt disease was a factor because it took 1000s of years for migrations rather than crossing the Atlantic in weeks so anyone carrying disease would not live
Personally i think the estimates of overall population are low. Calling Neanderthals cave people isnt accurate. They made huts out of mamoth bones etc not all lived in caves and the climate greatly affects the fossilization process for certain. Also, it is easier to excavate a cave because its smaller than a whole forest.
We havent dug up the whole earth. All in all ive been impressed with this content.
Population density depends greatly on food availability. There was plenty of food in Europe for an intelligent tool weilding apex predator. Sure many were geographically isolated which probably led to inbreeding and genetic collapse causing much smaller populations in certain locales.
I think it is low too.
Boomerangs definitely took place. The legend of Mjølnir is based on a vikings hammer shaped boomerang. And with cultures, they settle, and they will try to return to any worthy place lost, even thousands of generations later. Fact.
@@DAlienzombie agreed, it was most definitely a back and forth process of immigration and absorptive mixing ending with absorption.
Egyptian Pharaos, like Cleopatra were also pretty inbred but she was apparently intelligent ruler and spoke several languages. Modern royalty in Europe are also all closely related but relatively few of them have had medical issues.
Hemophilia.
There is reportedly some debate about whether Neanderthals were a separate species. Google search results say that they were. However, Neanderthals were close enough to us that I like the idea that they were a sub-species.
It is common for people of European ancestry to have a little bit of Neanderthal DNA. Someone I know did a genetic test that showed a higher-than-average percentage of Neanderthal DNA.
Genetic diversity is a good thing regardless of the species. It can help a group survive environmental changes. Under harsh conditions, some individuals die off and some survive. (Mother Nature is a bitch. 🙂)
I think the relationship between Neanderthal groups was probably as predators that is they either ate each other or bred with captured females. I would be interested to know whether mitochondrial inheritance has been studied regarding breeding between homo sapiens and neanderthalensis. It would give an indication as to whether male neanderthals bred with sapiens females or vice versa.
Same species, different group:
Homo sapiens neanderthalensis
The only anthropologists that regard neanderthalers as “subspecies” are anthropologists who think anatomical differences warrant subspecies or species separation. This line of thinking invariably leads to the Pandora’s box of discrimination and separation of contemporary human groups by the same process.
Since reply has been blocked:
The use of the term Neanderthalensis is a bit of jest. I could call Eskimos Eskimoensis, which would be silly. Such terms are fraught with technical and moral problems. Neanderthalers clearly bred with the moderns. Realistically, we can’t escape our DNA.
'Same species, different group' = 'subspecies'.
@
Suppose it’s what’s meant by group.
If Eskimos are a different group, are they a subspecies?
@richardwalton6993 No. But since you added a subspecies name, you seemed to be drawing a subspecies distinction between homo sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neanderthalensis. At any rate, Neanderthals are far more genetically distant from modern humans than any two modern human groups are from each other.
@@johnrichardson7629
The neanderthalensis addition is a bit of humour. I could call Eskimos eskimoensis, but I wouldn’t. Sounds silly, but the way the segregationists have gone at it is technically and morally fraught with problems. Main reasoning centres around the fact that we clearly bred with Neanderthalers: we cannot escape our DNA.
The use of the term Neanderthalensis is a bit of jest. I could call Eskimos Eskimoensis, which would be silly. Such terms are fraught with technical and moral problems. Neanderthalers clearly bred with the moderns. Realistically, we can’t escape our DNA.
Neanderthals and Denisovans weren't the same, but they interbred.
While one is a pre-human species into hybridisation, and the other a mixed race culture of different orientated mentals.
Yamnyan and Courded Ware is another thing like that.
Annunaki worker model. That was abandoned or survived post them leaving.
Most of my neighbors were both neighbors. Spelling helps a lot - so it goes. 😊😊😊
Well supported suppostions
It sounds like our Neanderthal friends were the very first Trailer Park Boys haha! Well inbreeding under their circumstances should probably be expected when you think it and like you pointed out it was likely a contributing factor in their demise.
The factors that explain the disappearance of the Neanderthals are not unique.
The demanding diet (4,000 calories) of Neanderthals, who ate a lot of meat.
The small size of their groups (a few dozen, and sometimes a few more during gatherings).
Inbreeding, due to the difficulty of exchanging females.
Certain genetic dispositions meant that interbreeding with female Homo sapiens resulted in few male offspring.
A less complex brain, even though its volume was greater than that of homo sapiens.
One might almost say that the disappearance of the Neanderthals had been programmed from the moment Homo sapiens appeared.
Is that like the platapus caught in mid flight in time.
My Dna tests came back showing I'm 98 % NW European. My son of a Japanese woman had twice the Neanderthal dna I had.
So much for the theory of Europe being the origin od Neanderthalic dna in my mind.
The inventors of the Banjo
😂
My wife called me
Neanderthal!
Thanks, sweetie, I am!
I fail to see anything dark about what Neanderthal man did. After all they lived in small groups, ad did not have any other choice. And having some Neanderthal genes in myself I respect them as my ancestors.
Denisovans are a mix of Eurasians and Hamitic descendants of either Canaan or Nimrod.
Come on now. Let's not be ignorant.
@ That’s not a valid argument.
I think the most obvious reason for the Neanderthal extinction was the loss of large prey. They were 70% meat eaters so it stands the reason without big pray They wouldn’t make it
A nice presentation. Two comments: inbreeding has been painted as detrimental. But this is only partially appropriate because if a population has adapted well to a specific environment even by inbreeding, the bad genes have gone. Most clearly seen in inbred mouse strains which are the survivors of inbreeding. But adapting to new environment becomes genetically impossible unless new genetic variation is created. The second point refers to the reproductive strategies of Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals. Cro-Magnons did show a boost of reproduction some 30'000 years ago and perhaps they out-copulated Neanderthals. At least I am not aware of Neanderthal art showing phallic and Venus figurines but then Cro-Magnons were fond of them (after the Neanderthals disappeared). Just to ponder....
That's exactly what I was thinking. Ooh, ooh ah-ah 🙈🙉🙊
I doubt it
BTW, it's pronounced Vindiya
études génétiques réalisées sur 6000 échantillons différents prélevés chez les français en 2024
Peak french plea xse
I dislike the way this is being projected 😮
Please stop projecting our values on them
The "values"that must offend you for some reason, is also genetically offending. Inbreeding cause so many health problems, and if you don't believe me look up the Habsburg jaw. I'm not sure why inbreeding conversations upset you so much, hmmmmm
You wanted to purchase a property.
I just wanted #Earthlings to pronounce #spooner_street
& everything changed
🤦♀️
They Africans , Middle Eastern , and People from Pakistan in breeds constantly
It’s not necessarily the same though. Cousin marriage is different than fathers breeding with their own daughters
@@12thplssame results except it takes several generations to achieve.