"Bowtech Controversy” MFJJ x Tim Connor
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- Опубліковано 4 лют 2024
- Fireside Chat Podcast MFJJ of @podiumarcher3447 and @TimConnor13 hang out and chat all things archery, on this episode we talk about Bowtech's recent contract blunder and the future of archery marketing. #archery #podcast
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Lancaster competion format is definitely more entertaining than Vegas. I enjoy watching both but Lancaster is more exciting. Hanson starting the 12 ring run was gripping.
You guys are 100% correct when it comes to televised events. I mean if they can put golf on tv than why cant they have 3d/indoor tournaments on television.
Starting to look forward to your monday morning pod. Thanks guys!
Watching Lancaster and Vegas these past few weekends, Darton is putting a ton of money into target archery. There was a lot of Darton jerseys on the line
No doubt
Guys there are 2000 + at every Asa and the amount of money spent on target is year round and in all fairness every local tournament has fun rounds. Also 3d is practice for hunting and even if it’s done with a open rig its archery and raise skill
2000 is not alot, especially when only a couple hundred watch it televised.
Definitely keeping it real, answering the phone while recording 😂
Love the pod cast guys !
Nothing like a good podcast on Monday morning
Amazing. Can't wait to see you in San Antonio. Sure hope I have a chance to meet you. Love the podcast. Haven't missed one yet. Keep them coming.
Super stoked on this format
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ 5 stars gents. Keep it up! Love the fireside chats. Look forward to hearing more about a possible event at the SVA location!
Thanks for the effort and insight!
Great job again,like listening to y’all ramble while working.
This is a very enjoyable conversation format. Keep it up!
Tim.... we are kindred spirits. I'm a sucker for some pizza and ice cream!! LOL. I appreciate what you are doing for archery and completely agree that it doesn't get the coverage to boost the sport. You have encouraged me to put more content on my Arrow Army channel. Maybe one day we'll run into each other and colab. Best of luck on your 60 days. Get after it!
Enjoying every episode. Keep up the good work!
Love the format ya’ll
Great Pod as usual guys!!!!
Live scoring with live streaming from set targets would make tournaments much more exciting. If I could flip between 4 different targets and watch the teams shoot through that would be pretty fun and less man power needed. Live scoring is a bit more challenging problem, but it would be good for competitors and the viewers.
That's the problem with ASA / IBO, you don't get live scoring until the final shootdown
GREAT GREAT podcast. Probably your best. Thanks
Love the show guys just clean the glass on the fire place 💪🦌🍺
I'm here for the nutrition and fitness goals Tim!
Seven Springs is really great. The scenery is beautiful also
Appreciate the rec ✊
Keep up the good work guys.
Makes Monday mornings in the office better!
✊✊
Is there a place that is better than UA-cam to watch or listen to this. Love the channel
The content loop would be awesome! Archery road trip!
Hey man I’ll be out at Killington Vermont TAC I’d love to see you guys out there!
Cool hearing you guys reference Brandon Palaniuk(PAUL-A-NICK)!
Vermonter here. Definitely a beautiful backdrop. Tim get on the carnivore diet and fast until 3pm. Do it, it’s easy and will get you where wanna be fast and healthy. I can’t believe how good I felt and I lost 23 pounds getting to my ideal weight in 3 weeks. I did it two months and my energy was through the roof. My doctor was shocked how good my blood panel was. Eat Ribeyes, all you can eat and you’ll be surprised you’ll get full and feel full on very little.
Agreed on the carnivore part
Carnivore is the answer. I lost 20lbs the first month. I was on blood pressure meds, after six months my blood pressure was so low I had to come off the meds and now it’s 103/69. Try it for 60 days and change your life.
Thanks G
VT is beautiful will be back again this year but for 2 days
Second this! Try carnivore or Paul Saladinos animal based diet (less restrictive) for a month and see how good you feel!
sounds like you are trying to do an archery event here in WA, that would be awesome. Super interested in it.
Good luck Tim. I'm 54 weight-loss doesn't get any easier. MFJJ I was appreciative of your interaction with ranch fairy. Keep it up guys!
A format that would do well as a spectator event would be some sort of steel target challenge.
Tim, I switched to a low carb fasting diet with everyday calisthenics for 30 minutes. I work all over the Northeast so needed something I can do whenever and wherever I want. Committing to doing it every day and making it part of the routine was a huge breakthrough, love lifting weights but finding time to carve out an hour minimum for the gym just wasn’t working. So far down 50 pounds and hopefully be good to go for an Elk hunt in two years!
Great podcast!
I think a scramble platform archery tournament would be so much fun. You guys should definitely do it
MFJJ and Tim great content. I will say that most content creators are not giving true content but personna. Keep up the great work
Would love to see you guys at Seven Springs TAC!
Lots of great info here for sure. However, ASAs as well as Lancaster and the Vegas shoot are growing every year. With ASAs and Vegas needing bigger venues.
Also, no Instagram influencer is going to convince someone to buy a specific bow. Target archers do that because the audience knows they actually know what they’re talking about.
The biggest question that I have is why the archery industry as a whole is so scared to go shoot for score. I’ve never seen anything like it. People done hesitate to go play their local club championship on the golf course as an amateur. But as soon as someone has to go shoot their bow for score they will crawl into a hole. It’s very interesting for sure
Instagram influencers convince people to buy specific bows all the time... I guarantee you the Lift wouldn't be as popular if influencers didn't gas it up as much as they are. That's why they are called influencers and most of the time they are sponsored.
@@nhdavis just because they get views doesn’t mean they sell bows. They don’t. Because everyone watching knows 98% of them know nothing. They just shoot and regurgitate their information.
@@tannerharris1483 Another fact that so many people neglect to mention is that its not JUST the consumer that matters... its also the techs and sales person at local bow shops that are selling bows, and those guys often know whats going on in the target world and how well each company is performing. Maybe not all shops are that way, but I guarantee the good shop techs know whats been happening in the competitive side of the sport. Mathews has a strong footing in the target world and have for a long time. Whether that directly leads to a massive increase in sales, I cannot for sure say... but it has cemented their name as one of the biggest and most respected companies in the industry... both Mathews and Hoyt.... and they just happen to be the 2 biggest sponsors for professional target shooters. Hoyt is MASSIVE on the world stage for target archery, and Mathews is massive within the US.
Bowtech never had a target bow that could compete for many years... then with the fanatic they began to break into the target sphere of archery and it was great. I was thrilled to see them wanting in the target scene. They make good bows... then the reckoning launched them into the top tier of the target world... They had 3 of the best shooters putting their bows on a ton of podiums... I was considering a bowtech for my next bow.... aaaaand then they decide lets sabotage the last 10 years of work we have done in target archery, screw over 2 top level pros, and go back to being an average hunting bow company. Such a bizarre move from them. They had the best deal going to boot... Some companies have to sponsor 15-20 shooters to get the same podium time as bowtechs 3 pros did. If their sales drop, I cant say they dont deserve it. If you have a sport without pro's and without competition, then you don't have a sport. Kudos to the other companies that sponsor their pros, even if its not a direct measurable net positive... its crucial for archery industry to have shooters. Mathews understands this better than anyone... and they just so happen to be on fire this year with new bow releases.
Thank you
Pico in VT is spring TAC event and by edge of NY
Michigan is a great TAC also. Hopefully they go back to Boyne Mtn next year instead of Crystal! I will be coming from Indiana to Big Sky this year, hopefully can run into you guys!
I don’t agree with the rep saying, “target archery is dying”. I do think USA, World Archery (WA), IBO formats are dying but not target archery over all. I do think a formate change on the behalf of WA, USA Archery, and IBO would be great. A lot of the rules from WA and USA archery are just ridiculous and do nothing but drive an ever growing gap in cohesion among disciplines. However, ASA, TAC, and Indoor Archery formats are growing. This is evident by the increased numbers per event last year at the ASA’s, TAC’s, this year’s LCA and Vegas shoots. In fact, the Vegas shoot is moving because The South Point can’t accommodate the numbers of people showing up. Even european archers are staring to come to ASA tournaments due to the growth and pay outs. The problem with tournament payouts in my opinion is, manufactures are the main source of prize money. That needs to stop! Manufactures organizations need to find a way to parter with non-endemic sponsors to provide prize money. I’m just not sure they are putting any effort into it. I think they like having the control that they do and that’s not good for the average consumer or the competitor. It is part of the reason equipment prices are so HIGH! Also, on the topic of media coverage…Greg Poole (BowJunkyMedia) used to do Golf style coverage at the ASA’s and other shoots. He didn’t have the backing to grow that formate and Competition Archery Media (CAM) was able to negotiate contracts with NFAA, ASA, etc. cause they have more resources but their coverage isn’t that great. That was one reason Greg Poole was pushed out. With the exception of PJ, CAM does not have a dynamic and interesting host for their coverage (cough cough Greg White). Don’t even get me started on World Archery media coverage. It’s not good and they dropped the ball major with their subscription based Archery.tv coverage for this weekends Vegas Shoot-off. Love him or hate him, Greg Poole provides the best ‘play by play’ coverage of tournaments. Greg Poole gets the most out of interviews, on the range coverage, and co-hosts. I would encourage you to go back and watch BowJunkyMedia coverage on UA-cam and Facebook from 4-5 years ago. The foundation is there to make things great but it’s the typical ‘archery eating it’s own’ issues that holds archery back. On the topic of archer’s not wanting to compete for score (TAC), I think that’s kind of a cop out. Sure, there is a group that doesn’t want to compete but I would venture to say, a good percentage of the attendees that shoot TAC also shoot competitively at their local level. TAC is just another offering but not taking away from target archery. It has its place but doesn’t warrant traditional target archery needing a complete overhaul. It just needs to be managed better.
Come on over to Seven Springs PA
I think a golf style format of following professional archers through a TAC of MAF style course would be highly entertaining. 1 camera on the shooter and 1 camera on the target, and the in between hike portion would be a good time to do interviews with the shooters and discuss gear.
We need you guys in Vermont!
My wife and I were inspired to begin the intermittent fasting a couple weeks ago. I initially lost 2-3 pounds and now I've stalled. I understand Tims dilemma.
I’ll do the 60 days with you Tim !!! Been a goal I’ve wanted to do as well. :)
N.C here great podcast
I think in order to make it more visible... and have more buy in... people need to be shooting things that are more "stock" you need to bring the hunters into it... and then push those just doing competition the other way. I'd love to see the guys with the 3' stabilizers and such shoot the same competition with their hunting rigs...
Haters gonna hate. People just aren't ok with having a disagreement that's why the whole world is so disconnected. Different opinions aren't a sin! Keep pumping out the great content! Also, bout to order a bowpress from mfjj. Can't wait for the new draw board!
And I was going to say now working in the archery side of outdoors industry I would say it’s about 3-4 years behind professional fishing. And you have Levi’s good friend Andy Morgan they call him the 🐐 of bass fishing
Word ✊
great content guys!!! How did Josh do in Vegas?
OHHHH I LOVE THIS JUICY topic :).
Thanks
Got my bow from podium and great experience so 5 stars on that. Watching Tim and Josh 5 stars on that. And 5 stars for just for that Karen. Call that the Common Sense Connie for out Karen the Karen. Keep up the good work guys it's been fun listening to you.
One thing that I thought was really cool was the popup 3d shoots. I never got to participate in any or that they were even close to where I was but that was a unique event.
Another idea would be to setup a camera crew and a famous pro shooter like Levi Morgan on some of the more challenging targets setups on say the amateur class in Hunter and open class and do interviews with the avg Joe blow shooter while out on the 3d course..
We need more traveling events like the R100 that hits up every state and have the pros show up and not shoot it but hangout with the Joe blows at each target.
More events like TAC but maybe geared towards the east coast like Ohio, PA, WV.
How about more team related events. Like how esports have teams and they compete as a team.. There are ways to make archery a more involved and engaging with a wider audience..
I enjoyed the Buckmaster events ..
Seven springs tac is the only 4 day tac that I know of. i think it is because it is the closest event for alot of the east coast big cities.
utah. biggest of all of them.
Sporting clays has started this super squad at big events. All the pros shoot at the same time. Then the last round pros in position 1-5 5-10 11-15 and so on shoot in the same group side by side to add pressure.
The problem with flying to/from Spokane is the layovers... there's no direct flights to the east and vice versa. Northeast TAC events aren't getting enough love, but they're a blast with great scenery. I have a video clip from Vermont up on YT... I'm no Tim Connor making videos
It would be awesome to see you guys come put to 7 springs
My husband has been bow hunting for over 40 years. I started shooting with him and absolutely loved doing TAC for the first time last summer. We both are now also totally into watching target archery and I plan to buy a target bow and do both. my husband bought a target bow 2 months ago for the first time. I live in Northern Utah and shooting outside for at least 4 months is generally not an easy option, so we have been indoor shooting now since November.........thus the focus on target archery. I totally agree there should be better coverage of indoor target archery. I was disappointed to not get to see the other shooters and earlier part of the competition while watching Vegas for the first time. I also noticed there wasn't anyone putting out content live and I wondered if they just don't allow it? But they should it would be so much more fun and reach a lot more viewers. I don't think Target archery is dying, I think outdoor archery, hunting and TAC is actually just growing. Much credit for that growth for sure goes to "influencers" putting out great content that shows Archery can be something anyone can become decent at with some practice. I admit watching people shoot X's all day long seems pretty impossible, but watching you all shoot TAC and having a great time makes archery a tangible thing for everyone.
Palaniuk is a excellent example and would be an awesome get on the podcast. Competitive bass fishing is having some of the same issues as competitive target archery people who have a stronger pull on social media are getting better opportunities with sponsorship even if tournament results aren’t the best or even people who don’t compete on UA-cam are finding better opportunities than some tournament anglers who don’t use social media. Brandon is obviously a unicorn since he has the high end tournament results and strong social presence much like Levi Morgan.
I did not like the fact that they dropped them late season when everyone had their contracts locked in. It would have been one thing to give them a heads up so they can work out another good contract with someone... Kudos to Mathews for making room for both of them AFTER they had already settled all their shooter contracts for the year.
I get what you are saying about TAC that it reaches a lot of people and that is great, but ASA's bring in more than 700 people I am pretty sure. I want to say its more like 1500-2500 people. Also, Vegas numbers were 4500 this year up from 3900 last year... Lancaster is hitting higher numbers year after year... Our local shoots have been getting higher numbers year on year...even higher now than pre-covid. I do not see target archery dying at all personally. Not even close. The guys that start out with a hunting bow and go to local 3d shoots and the odd TAC start to take a liking to shooting at targets with their bows and working on becoming a better archer... and you see them slowly learn more and more about target bows and then one day they show up to a shoot with a target bow.
There is also the world stage that most Americans never seem to think about. Target archery is big in europe and other areas around the world. Its been a sport for many thousands and thousands of years and its not going anywhere.
Thing about target archers is... while Joe blow hunter doesn't follow the tournament trail most bow techs/shop owners do. Given that many customers make their final decisions in the bow shop it helps if those people like you're product/target team.
As someone involved in another sport that struggles with media coverage, high quality production is imperative but also accessibility. Vegas was behind a paywall which is absolutely silly when sponsors can pay for logos on the stream coverage etc to cover those costs. The more people attracted the more money that rolls in at the end of the day. You do it like golf. make exciting groups and follow them with camera (re: asa events) stream software is amazing now with multiple cameras and live commentary. but i can never find info except BJM. there needs to be a better way to get it out there and thats where the money rolls back into the sport.
Having a model called the "Solution SS", along with the choice of limb graphics for the "SS" tells me everything about Bowtech marketting team.
Somebody with a handle of Mr. Fornicator is going feign offense at the Bowtech logo?
The inference of white supremacy in a archery logo is beyond ridiculous. Turn off CNN, MSNBC, and Joe Biden. There is NOT a racist hiding behind every tree.
Damn that was a dumb comment.
Come to Pennsylvania tac!
I'd be curious to see a mathews vs. some other competitor, where you go through all the draw lengths, record the FPS and see if the mathews really is more efficient at different draw lengths.
A huge undertaking, but it would be interesting
I would love seeing a competitive TAC event where pros compete on a TAC style shoot.
I say if they add some visual effects of arrow trajectory like golf or baseball. It would make it more interesting and consumable.
For me, the issue is about running those archers down off trading period, without any kind of notice for them to plan for their family and career. If this is the values of Bowtech, then indeed, I was right seeling my bowtech just after the announcement. Archery should be proudly carrying some values. If money is the only of the game here as well, then we messed everything up once again.
IDK, in the south east, ASA 3D is huge and only getting more popular. Just look at how many Titles Mathews is selling this year; target archery isn't going away any time soon. I do agree the media and marketing side of it needs to be brought into 2024. I think part of the solution is to get people like Levi Morgan and Paige Pierce to shoot in in a pro hunters class and get local bow shops throughout the region more directly involved.
tac style shoots are the future!
some shots out of ground blind. some out of tree stand, some out of saddle etc etc
Screw that apple using Karen, no one cares about your poor opinion. MFJJ and Tim C are just great guys to listen to, these fireside chats are just enjoyable to listen to. I hope this doesn't die off, I am a die hard listener. I hope to run into yall at San Antonio TAC. Cheers from TX guys, Stay warm.
Vegas had just under 5,000 archers competing this year. I’d say it’s still growing. That’s over a million dollars in just registration fees alone. Archery as a whole has grown a lot!
Home town for Tim Michigan TAC!
BMP hammer 2 time angler of the year. Second largest channeling behind Scott Martin who I’ve been free lancing for and actually was supposed to for Brandon but my boat broke done and he found someone else I got mine fix and he set me up with Scott. Huge Brandon Paulinak fan and yes elk hunter too. Got his cousin in law who is also pro from Australia his first elk this year in Idaho.
Very cool!
I saw on a podcast with John Dudley and Chris Bee that they said the PA TAC is the most popular and gets the most people in attendance. I believe that is why it is the only 4 day TAC event. So, if you all want to meet the most people who watch your channels and listen to the podcast, then Seven Springs would be the best to go to, in my opinion.
Thanks for the good content - here's to 60 days of good health and fitness
7 Springs is awesome. That's the only one I go too.
Now, that being said in my prior post, this group of guys on these channels have the best INFORMATIVE channels I have seen with you two and on Elkshape. The beta are here channels on in my opinion. But, all high priced gear. Show it all. High and lower priced. And lower prices to you might still be high for a lot of us.
I'm gonna say they need to have some tac,s that are competitive for us average people it's always nice to win, archery came about for food and protection what's closer to that shooting 20 yrds or out on a mountain shooting shots at 67 yards im telling y'all. God bless ttyl
How are you going about getting rid of your reckoning, Tim? I would definitely be interested in entering any bow giveaway for that particular bow.
3d used to be televised... other formats have been tried but none really gained the footing needed to continue. The old Pro Series at Fort Van Lier, OPA, Bowcast at the Bird (predecessor to TAC) were all on youtube... NockOut was on NBC sports for a season...
Chuck Cooley, George Tekmitchov, Teresa Johnson have all done commentary for events on multiple different levels... They have also had shooters in the booth commentating that provides a different viewpoint.
Is that a pacific energy stove??????
Canada here. -30 celcius and we are good.
Wow love y’all
I get what MFJJ is getting at as far as more people wanting to shoot for fun and not keep score, but there's also people that going shoots that are wanting to test their skills against competition. It's a different demographic. Also tournaments as a whole have been growing over the last several years. ASA averages like 1700, so it's not like no one goes to them. I do get the appeal of how fun TAC looks though
Vegas cover was great :)
Tim, if only you knew a guy whose former career was as a strength and conditioning coach...who has his own CrossFit gym in his backyard, whose UA-cam channel is as much about getting in shape as it was archery...where could you find a guy like that?
How about a competition that has ranged 3d shots like tac events and then competitors also shoot the close range 20 yards and moving targets, steel targets, timed course with shots at set points, could use set range known or unknown rangeing, etc in like rounds. And the event and shots can be set up with multi cameras. It could be on over a few days or weekend. It doesnt have to be scored shots. Make it fun and entertaining. With the right comentary team perhaps. You could have themed events with funy costumes or somethi g
Seven springs, PA
Did you get "karened" on the episode Tim came it with a clean shaven face?? IT was the babyface shock that did it!
I first heard “Target archery is dying” in 1988 🤔. So I won’t believe it till I see it. Can it be improved, YES! It needs to be done with lighted nocks so you can see the arrows in flight and when they hit. Nocks can turn off after a few seconds.
The way Bowtech handled the Tim and Kyle situation definitely made me lose interest in buying their product this year. I’m not going to support a company that treats their pros like they’re disposable.
TAC could be televised like golf i would imagine
Without ASA and IBO, Redding etc there would be no Tac it would have never existed, want fun go shoot the Reinhardt 100. I do agree the coverage is suspect but I do believe the target community keeps the industry flowing and growing on a year round basis and in some ways drives R&D also NASP and kids who don’t excel at other sports have a home in archery. People want a challenge and want to know where their skill stacks up and that’s where competition and keeping score comes in. How you make that fun to watch I don’t know, for me it’s more about participation and less about watching, more about practicing and testing my skills, friendships I make
Little off topic but will Josh's new draw board work on the pack and go press?
I think if they did what Lancaster did with the Mathews shooter vs bodie turner with the 12 ring it would change the sport a little bit. Something to make it more intense.
it was exciting this year... but I have a feeling it may have just been a one off to have it unfold as it did... its totally possible the first archer misses the 12 on their first arrow... and the other archer wins before they even fired a shot. If that happens, the entire match is a waste of time to watch. It was exciting to watch this year... thats true... but only because they were hitting them on the first 2-3 ends of the match. Dave cousins tried it in past years and lost almost right away... and the 2 guys that went straight for the 12's this year also lost their match.... I think the way it was used in past years was better overall. The matches remained tight and the 12 was used as a chance to catch up if they were down... or a way to go for the win on their last arrow... but next year they are all going to think they have to shoot a 12 every end... and that could certainly make for some VERY short matches. I would much rather see 4 ends with a tight score and then closest to center shootoff, than someone blow a 7 on their second arrow.... Just my opinion anyways. If you really dig into the possibilities of how the match can unfold with the 12 ring it raises some questions... Like shooter #1's hand being exposed before shooter #2 fires their last arrow of the end. We'll see how it plays out in time. Maybe its a huge hit and everyone continues to love it. Very possible.
I actually much prefer the vegas style of shot for shot. The intensity in that was every bit as high as the 12s at lancaster... and it retains fairness to both archers since there is no strategy possible to get ahead of the other... which is what spot shooting has been for thousands of years. Its about hitting dead center as repeatedly as possible and more consistently than your opponent. Strategy is fine too, as long as it is well thought out to be fair to the shooters... such as ASA and 3d shoots.
I disagree that target archery is dying. I'm from northern Wyoming and we've seen big growth. I think the biggest reason target archery, and archery clubs die is because the old guard won't let go! The old guard HATES what archery, and bowhunting has turned into.
I'm 25 and our archery club director is in his upper 30's. We are doing things that the old guard would be disgusted by... But they're SHOCKED at our attendance.