It has alwasy made me laugh when people attribute goodness or righteousness to certain Shards and evil to others. These beings are kind of beyond all of that. Also, good or evil according to whom? I guess if a Shard is trying to destroy the Cosmere and all life in it then you can say that's pretty bad. It just seems kind of silly to attribute any kind of morality to them for the most part.
I dont think Kaladin dies i think Kaladin will become the one to fix the Heralds by expanding his mental healing study he started in book 4, cause didn't Odium say Kaladin became more dangerous because he STOPPED fighting and became a doctor again? Protecting without fighting could be Kaladin's 5th Ideal, it fits Kaladin's Character Arc perfectly and all Ideals after the first differ for each Person.
I think it might cheapen the experience if Kaladin goes from "first invents the very notion of mental health" to "cures the most severe cases of mental conditions imaginable" in a short period of time.
Chana Davar is a super popular theory that has a lot of evidence going for it as well, such as similarities in looks, an alignment of timing when she dies vs when Shallan killed her mother, and more. Some of the evidence is in the pre-released chapters, however, so beware.
@@lightinmylibrary I believe it goes a level deeper, Shallan IS Chana. She killed her innocent non-Radiant real daughter Shallan (for walking in on her?) then in a panic killed her affair partner. She then lightwove herself to be Shallan and made the child body look like hers. Her dad witnessed it. She goes mute for 6 months, her dad turns to drinking. What's he gonna say? "My wife is my daughter, transformed using ancient magic." Shallan/Chana is the Davar Ghostblood connection. She was soulcasting the family wealth, not Luesh. It's also how she has Shardplate in Thayen Field. It's how she remembers Urithiru on first walkthrough. Cryptics love her because she is living hundreds of layers of lies. We know Heralds can bond spren because of Nale. We don't know if a Herald could bond a spren from a different Order, but I think they can when they are as tempting as "Shallan". She's gonna say "I killed Shallan," and Pattern might deadeye because that's who he bonded (this could reawaken Testament). They don't even care, it was worth the risk. An additional piece of this puzzle is that I think the Stormfather is wrong in the WaT prologue. No Herald died. He's assuming that because he felt the presence of Ulim - who was smuggled to Roshar. The Oathpact was circumvented by Axindweth. They just released Taln because it was already happening.
People always say how much evidence this theory has but the majority of it is "look, here's a thing which doesn't prove it isn't true" and the other 90% is "they both have red hair." I'd be interested in hearing any actual supporting evidence which isn't just, well this fact doesn't disprove it. And it will have to get over the glaring contradiction, which is, how on earth could a child beat a Herald in a swordfight. If this theory is correct, Chana is fully aware that she's in a combat situation with her daughter. She expressly wants to kill her because she is a Radiant which means she might have access to a living sprenblade, so you can't say she wouldn't be expecting that. All of the answers I've heard to this are essentially "she just got surprised and was killed" which... apart from how we see that the Heralds are superb combatants even when practically comatose, like Hoid says in Tress, beings don't survive thousands of years without being killed, if they are careless about things which might kill them. If Chana really is just an idiot like people say, who's apt to not take precautions when something might kill her, how did she last six thousand years without being run over by a cart?
Regarding Adolin, I think he will develop a new different bond, we now thanks to Tress of the emerald treee that other bonds exist like the Luhel bond, maybe Adolin forms a distinct bond and becomes a brand new “thing” never seen before, which does strike a similarity with Renarin and his weird bond too.
I agree entirely with cultivation being the true final enemy. I think it’s even possible that Dalinar wins the contest of champions in book 5 dying in the process and cultivation taking over and or absorbing the shard of odium. We know that some of our current lead POvs take a backseat in the last 5 books but that doesn’t automatically mean they all die and or are removed from the story in another way. Could just mean that the enemy grows beyond their capabilities and the heralds need to be front and center to resolve the conflict.
Your talk of Cultivation solidified a theory I had been toying with. Firstly, I agree, I believe you are correct that Cultivation will be the primary antagonist. I think she was not only present when Tanavast was shattered, but was the architect of the plan to begin with. To add to this Taravangian as Odium : I do not believe he will continue with Odiums original plans. When he started the diagram, he set out with the goal to save humanity, he was able to save his kingdom with previous Odium. Now that he holds the shard, I believe he will work to further that goal now. I believe that Cultivation has a hatred of humans, where I'm not sure if it has ever been stated, but I think the singers were made by collaboration of Tanavast and Cultivation, (similar to what ruin and preservation did) and I think she became jealous when Honor shifted his favor to humans when they made it to Roshar. Great video, can't wait for Book 5, I am also abstaining from reading the preview chapters
There might be a WoB about the origins of the singers, but I don't remember for sure. Personally I believe they actually predate the shards, but with cultivation being a dragon, I think your theory still works. Her intent would make her more interested in seeing the growth of the Singers, since they are only found on this planet whereas it could easily be said that humans are a weed in the garden of the cosmere, to take the plant metaphor further.
Also, some background info I probably should have included in the video since it makes the theory even stronger, Taravangian wasn't always going to become Odium in the series outline. After book 4 Brandon said it was always a possibility, however he hadn't decided for sure to do it until after book 3. He did it just because after Odium's failure in book three Rasye lacked the necessary threat level in the reader's mind. That background info just makes Odium come off as even more of a red herring. I mean, if the character themselves can just be switched out without any issue for the overall plotting of the series than it calls into question if they are anything more than a misdirect.
I would argue that Cultivation couldn't see through Renarin's foresight, she was just in contact with Sja-Anat and they conspired together to bring down Odium with Taravangian as a pawn ready to promote to queen essentially. She set out from the beginning to grant the boon he originally asked for "the capacity to save humanity" aka the Shard of Odium, with the smart and emotional days being only a means to an end. I think she definitely does have an upper hand in the conflict, but I don't buy a full on "villain" characterization. She doesn't want Roshar to be stagnant or caught in the cycle of desolations anymore. That means ending the conflict between Odium and Honor once and for all.
I’ve also been thinking that Adolin might be Odium’s champion! And that it isn’t actually a child, but Dalinar seeing flashbacks to Adolin as a child and being unable to kill his son. I think Adolin has been built up as a dueller so much that it just makes so much sense for him to be a part of the contest of champions in some way
Yeah it seems like the contest of champions will be the catalyst for all the action in book 5. Also it seems like Dalinar has to lose or draw or not do it or something. It would be weird if the book took place over 10 days considering some of the traveling we know has to happen. Also it would be really weird if Dalinar won the contest 10 days into the book.
I mean, I can see Brandon managing to stretch the entire book to ten days, however I just finished a re-read of Elantris and he kinda struggled with the believability imho in that book by leaving it to only three months so we'll see if he can do better with something like that now
Agreed. Good video. Also, maybe consider notes to refer to and give you candid thoughts, rather than reading the whole thing. It could sound more natural.
My theory: Kal will swear his 5th oath as someone important dies to protect him (my guess is Adolin) . And will be smthing like: "I accept that I too need to be protected by those I love" then boom
Cool theory, but I don't think it will be Adolin... maybe his father, or Moash, who will show remorse and give his life to defend Kaladin. Yes, Moash...
I've seen the idea that Kal will swear the Fifth Ideal just as Syl is killed with Moash's knife, or pulled into the Material Realm by Ishar, never knowing if his words were accepted or not. I hate it, as I really don't want anything bad to happen to Kaladin (or Syl haha), but it is an idea.
I agree with the contest of champions not being the most important part of this book. The terms that were agreed to are pretty reasonable, and win or lose result in an end to the war.
Neither Dalinar nor Kaladin will die. Dalinar has heavy implications to become Odium's new champion and go forward into the other books as an unwilling villain bound by oaths. Kaladin literally cannot die from a storywriting standpoint. It runs completely counter to his entire plot arc. It would, simply, be bad writing to have him die at this point. However, he also needs a way to be removed from the action of the books and prevented from acting against Odium directly (because let's face it, Moash is taking over Kaladin's role after his inevitable redemption arc). So we have two storylines for Kaladin which say he can't be killed. 1) His depression plotline. Having him die after striving so hard to live is a betrayal of this character arc and completely undermines it. 2) His non-violence plotline. Kaladin is at his limit and cannot fight anymore, he needs to retire, but there is still a massive war against evil to fight. Kaladin wants to heal and to help others. What can be done? He needs to be removed from the story because he cannot stop fighting when a fight needs to happen, and he can't die, so we go to option 3. 3) In the sunlit man, Nomad is surprised to see Kaladin off of Roshar (he thinks its Kaladin anyways). Not that he's surprised to see Kaladin alive (implying he's not dead and is still alive even in the far future), that he is merely off of Roshar. What is the easiest explanation for this in a time period with both worldhoppers and intergalactic space ships? Simple, Kaladin CANNOT leave Roshar. He is bound there by oath. What I'm hinting at is that Kaladin is an invested Shard - A reborn shard of Honor to be specific. Dalinar will fall due to his agreement with Odium and the battle of champions, and this will kill the stormfather (as its death has been foreshadowed and outright predicted multiple times), and the stormfather will be sundered and a huge portion of Honor's power will be released into Roshar and, just like in Mistborn, ready to be claimed by a human vessel. Kaladin, the SON OF TANAVAST will pick up the power of Honor and become a new Shard, albeit a weakened one. With this, both story arcs are concluded and not contradicted. He will live on and get past his trauma, and he will help people and most importantly, he will be bound by oaths not to directly interfere in the war, which removes his ability to fight and allows him to focus on healing people. It literally accomplishes every story-beat Kal has. It actually creates a perfect symbolic synergy with Harmony too. Harmony has the power of two shards, and even though it's just two infinities of equal power, there does seem some reason Odium fears the raw power of it (as Ruin and Preservation also had "infinite" powers, but one was more infinite than the other and they were unbalanced). Conversely, Kaladin as Honor would be so heavily invested in Roshar with the Spren that he would undoubtedly be the weakest Shard in existence, but perhaps that allows him additional freedoms to act with purpose that other shards like Harmony cannot. Harmony is crippled with indecision because of its Intents being contradictory. This new Honor would be more of a blending between power and man. Less a full God and more Kaladin becoming the storm itself.
To me it doesn't make sense for book 5, the climax novel of the 1st arc, to have the arc 1 climax halfway through. Arc 1 can be described as "Honor vs Odium" the Contest of Champions is very clearly set up as putting a definitive end to this war one way or another. It would end the conflict of arc 1. At most I can see 100 maybe 200 pages dedicated to the aftermath and set up. For my out there theory, I think for vol 6+ we might see some Cultivation and/or Autonomy stuff, with Lift playing a significant role (that chicken is a chekhov's gun waiting to happen). Cultivation and Autonomy kinda have that YingYang stuff going on from what we've seen and we're pretty muxh entering an Autonomy Cosmere Arc after Wind and Truth with Elantris and Ghost Blood
I don't know that I agree that Cultivation necessarily knew what would happen and could see through Renarin's influence. Also let's just skip past how stupid I think it is that Renarin, merely by existing, can blind the God who gave him the future-sight power, for like a mile radius around him, all the time, whether he's using the power actively or not. I think that future sight isn't a guarantee of victory, nor is it the only way to achieve victory. I can't currently see through my wall. Yet I might be able to hear the rain, or perhaps I saw the clouds before I came inside, and I can determine that it's most likely raining, even without direct knowledge. There are ways to know a thing other than directly seeing it, there are ways to plan for the future besides literal prescience. I think it's possible she set up what she did in expectation of events and, like Harmony says in Bands of Mourning, trusts in her pawns to carry out their work. I think the fact that her plan worked can't be used as proof that she had the future-vision to know that it was impossible for her plan to fail, just like if I claim a coin will land heads-up because I'm wearing a red hat and it does in fact land head's up, that doesn't prove that I was correct in saying that while I'm wearing a red hat, all coins will flip heads.
I must admit that your theory that Cultivation is the real enemy is very interesting. 1. As they say: Where two fight there the third benefits... For thousands of years Odium and Honor have fought and weakened each other, and Cultivation has gone into hiding. I find it hard to believe that she has no plan... Cultivation waited thousands of years in hiding... but for what? 2 Note that an interesting situation has arisen: Dalinar now represents Honor. Taravangian is now Odium. And both of these men in the past met with Cultivation, which gave them its gifts and which led them to become de facto Honor and Odium... Coincidence? She steered their destiny... It seems that Cultivation foresaw and directed their fate so that they became Honor and Odium and faced each other. 3. During Odium's conversation with Dalinar, Odium tells Dalinar that if he had found out what Cultivation really wanted to do with Roshar, he would have chosen Odium as ruler.... I wonder... Was Odium lying or not? Oathbringer, Chapter 57: “Ask Cultivation about this when you meet her again. Ask her what she would want for Roshar. I think you'll find me a better choice then” Interesting... 4. But what might Cultivation desire most? Conjecture: perhaps I'll quote from the Lord of the Rings and Gandalf's conversation with the Treebeard: “Yes, but you did not plot to plant the whole world with trees and smother all other life on earth” (The Two Towers, Chapter 10).” Maybe Cultivation wants to rid the world of both Humans and Singers and create a “paradise” for plants and animals, and that's why she actually caused the eternal war in which Humans and Singers annihilate each other...
One theory that i have put in several comment sections is that Jah Annat will end up taking over as the main villian. we still know very little about her part in the false desolation which did not involve odium at all but did involve forms of power for the ancient singers and ultimately lead to the recreance, and the fall of the singers into parshmen and the formation of the branch people the listeners or parshendi. what we do know aobut these events is that forms of power were given through and unmade and when that unmade was sealed some fallout took place, we also know that Jah Ahnat is making corrupted spren, i think many believe that this is related to odium but odium doesnt know much about these spren and he has his own spren. i suspect that the death rattles and visions of dalinar that refer to the True Desolation will be one that targets both humans and parshmen (singers and listeners alike) and brings about a literal age of darkness. as far as cultivation goes i personally think she is a force for good mostly because two of the three characters whom have interacted with her have been significant and have had good intention. taravangian has indeed become odium sure but we often forget the intent of cultivations touch to the three character who were taravangian dalinar and lift. Lift is still largely a mystery to me but i suspect her humble and forgiving nature will be important in stormlight 5. dalinar was prepared by cultivation to give him a real chance to deny odium in stormlight 3 which pretty much defeated rayse which was then set in stone when kaladin denied him in stormlight 4. now back to taravangian. what was his curse and boon? taravangian asked for the intelligence and compassion to save the world, the curse is he had to navigate those two feelings seprately and learn to exercise great self control in both extremes and learn teh balance of both. we learn from some excerpts in way of kings (hoid's discussions) that shards have an influence on the bearer. for example ati was initially a very kind and gentle man but evenutally became what we now recognize Ruin to have been. Rayse, according to hoid was alwasy dispicable and one of the worst of men, i imagine he was something like sadeas in the eyes of Hoid. the fact that rayse ended up with odiums shard is really bad. i suspect that he has caused problems in various parts of the cosmere and honor and cultivation knew he would fight over roshar. i think honor's death was planned. possibly by tannivast in tandem but more likely by cultivation alone. i think she used honor willingly or not to weaken rayse and put him in a position where others could take his place as the shard of odium. she then gradually prepared certain people to take up the shards. taravangian for odium, and dalinar for honor. taravangian has been prepared to be odium and cultivation said she had alot to teach him. i think she is going to train taravangian to use his refined temporment to contorl odiums shard better than rayse or ati. as for dalinar i think he would make an exceptional version of honor but i would not be suprised if this part of cultivations plan is somehow foiled and someone else less expected ends up the shard much like sazed became harmony. that said its quite possible dalinar ends up as honor still IMO. as for the contest of champions i think its possible they end up picking szeth as the champion after dalinar fails or cant bring himself to do it. of course szeth too could fail to kill the child since as far as we know its the one type of person he hasnt killed yet. there is alot to think about and alot of possibilities. its gonna be cool to see.
I also think Adolin will he Odiums Champion. As you said, he is very impulsive and his relationship with Dalinar isn't in a good place rn. In fact I predicted that Kaladin would actually drive a wedge between them, as Kaladin is more like Dalinar than Adolin is and Adolin insecurities about that relationship could push him to be more impulsive. Also none of my homies trust Cultivation.
I think the Unmade in Shinovar is Chemoarish, the Dustmother. This kinda fits with your theory about cultivation having more complex plans because she seems to be conflated with the Nightwatcher in the histories of Roshar(Oathrbinger ch.108.)
I think there will be a time skip between book 5-6. It feels like this will be the space where the forces of good can begin to build. So I think character deaths for Dalinar and Khaladin will be good moments and okay as they provide the space for others to grow and make the true push against evil.
hey great vid! im not going to tell anyone else how to enjoy the cosmere, but i would definitely recommend reading the WaT preveiw chapters. They are only going to be releasing the first 20 chapters, so it won't reveal too much, but what ive read so far in the first 6 chapters has completely upended alot of stuff from the first 4 books. Im rereading them all now and it made it much more interesting to see the foreshadowing.
I will not be doing that, because it ruins the experience of getting the physical book and opening to page one. There's nothing more disappointing than sitting down with a 1000+ page book and realizing you're 20% of the way through it without even cracking the spin. I've already been there done that with the sample chapters for several previous books.
Great video! Some feedback that you can absolutely ignore: the sound balance going 3:30 could be a tiny bit worked out! Music was a little too loud compared to your voice. Content wise: you rule!
Weird reading of the end of book 3. Dalinar was able to resist the thrill not because he had control of his urges but because he had confronted his trauma and memories. He says "you cannot have my pain" and that let's him deny the orb
You got me wondering if Cultivation is going to be the main villain of the second 5 book series. Maybe book 5 does end with the Odium confrontation, but the aftermath sets up Cultivation as actually having been the bigger problem all along.. kind of an ominous ending, then we get the time skip to that starting to kick off ..? I really don't want Adolin to end up as Odium's champion though. He might have a tendency to snap and do violence but for the most part that lad is a golden retriever of a person. haha. I also really wanna see Maya come back fully, I keep hoping that theory is right.
On my most recent re-read before WaT, I got this sinking feeling as well that Adolin would potentially be Odium’s champion as well. I don’t have a lot to support it other than that feeling and the things you mentioned, but it is a bit disheartening that you felt this after your most recent re-read as well. That would muddy the waters so much and make everything feel much more bleak. Does Adolin personally know that Odium needs to be kept on Roshar? If not, that could be a way for TaraVodium recruit him. “I really don’t want to be imprisoned. Moreso than I care about winning. If you win, I will leave Roshar for good. I have no champion to defeat Dalinar as he was able to overcome his killing of your mother to reject my choosing of him as my champion. His “Honor” was brushing off murdering your mother in an animalistic rage. Your “Odium” killed Saddeas and allowed the Alethi to finally come together and stop in-fighting.” I mean… 🥺
What would Kal gain by swearing the 5th ideal? I struggle to imagine how he could be MORE powerful? That said... I only want good things for my boy Kaladin, so here's hoping! I agree that Cultivation is suspicious as hell! However, I don't agree that prophecies were helpful in Mistborn Era 1 - they were distorted and led them astray until the very end. Perhaps they would have done better if someone had told them not to trust those who claim to see the future! I agree that something has to come of this, because even very logical Jasnah is quite alarmed by Renarin in Oathbringer. I HATE the child champion theory because it is so hateful and cruel and feels like something Sanderson wouldn't write, but it fits frighteningly well with Odium's new vessel, after ALL the conversations that Taravangian had with Dalinar - in Oathbringer particularly - about 'THE GREATER GOOD'. Todium will know that Dalinar will not want to do something evil for the greater good. Overall, I'm quite worried about how much pain and suffering will be in this book!!
Im pretty sure the suckling baby death rattle was a vision of the past. I think the vision of nales past that dalinar saw depicted that death rattle happening
You're the first person I've ever seen making that connection. I think it's honestly a pretty tenuous one if I'm being honest. The only thing we see there is that Nale is protecting a child. There's absolutely no indication that he had some reason to be conflicted about whether or not to kill that child.
Editor for the channel here: what device are you listening on? I had this same feedback on the last video and thought I had lowered the music significantly. I checked it on my computer and my phone before uploading and it seemed to be just fine ( and the levels in my editor indicated that as well). I’m wondering if it’s a device specific issue or if I’m just missing the mark for some other reason
If any of Dalinar's sons will be the champion, it should be Renarin , no? He is the one that sees the future and is bonded to a corrupted spren. But I am not super sure of this (of anything really lol), the first time I read that chapter of Dalinar's vision of Odium's champion I thought it was Eshonai!
There's the whole lift's gift from the night watcher being her becoming unchanging, she could be the champion because she's unaffected by odium'e corruption? That's something I thought of but I'm not sure.
I'm pretty sure that Renarin is just about the LAST choice of Odium for his Champion. Even assuming Renarin agrees, Renarin's involvement in the contest in such a central way would blind Odium's future sight regarding the outcome, and that doesn't sound like something Odium would be willing to give up.
Editor for the channel here: what device are you listening on? I had this same feedback on the last video and thought I had lowered the music significantly. I checked it on my computer and my phone before uploading and it seemed to be just fine ( and the levels in my editor indicated that as well). I’m wondering if it’s a device specific issue or if I’m just missing the mark for some other reason
6:11 The quote attributed to Rhythm of War was actually from Way of Kings chapter 75
Glad to hear other people are skeptical of Cultivation’s goals. As I like to say, raising hogs for the slaughter is an act of Cultivation.
That's a really good way of putting it!
It has alwasy made me laugh when people attribute goodness or righteousness to certain Shards and evil to others. These beings are kind of beyond all of that. Also, good or evil according to whom? I guess if a Shard is trying to destroy the Cosmere and all life in it then you can say that's pretty bad. It just seems kind of silly to attribute any kind of morality to them for the most part.
Cultivation is very sketchy. Hoid also seems to be very wary of her.
Part of being a cultivator is pruning your crop.... Like a desolation
I honestly cannot believe I didn't come up with that, it just fits so perfectly!
Love this comment. I would have never thought of Eugenicist Cultivation, yet it makes total sense in hindsight.
Dalinar is a microcosm of Roshar
I dont think Kaladin dies i think Kaladin will become the one to fix the Heralds by expanding his mental healing study he started in book 4, cause didn't Odium say Kaladin became more dangerous because he STOPPED fighting and became a doctor again? Protecting without fighting could be Kaladin's 5th Ideal, it fits Kaladin's Character Arc perfectly and all Ideals after the first differ for each Person.
I think it might cheapen the experience if Kaladin goes from "first invents the very notion of mental health" to "cures the most severe cases of mental conditions imaginable" in a short period of time.
adolin almost strikes me as an elend-like character. have a feeling he's going to get a massive powerup that perfectly compliments his arc.
In Oathbringer, Odium says, "We killed you!" (referring to Honor). Honor thought that just Odium had killed him.
Nice pickup.
That might just be odium using royal We that gods are attributed to tho. Still like the theory tho.
I think Cultivation is the main villain of Books 6-10
I think its gonna be bigger than that
Chana Davar is a super popular theory that has a lot of evidence going for it as well, such as similarities in looks, an alignment of timing when she dies vs when Shallan killed her mother, and more. Some of the evidence is in the pre-released chapters, however, so beware.
I remembered the Chana theory literally minutes after posting the video, as it's been around since the WoB about how Taln never broke.
@@lightinmylibrary I believe it goes a level deeper, Shallan IS Chana. She killed her innocent non-Radiant real daughter Shallan (for walking in on her?) then in a panic killed her affair partner. She then lightwove herself to be Shallan and made the child body look like hers. Her dad witnessed it. She goes mute for 6 months, her dad turns to drinking. What's he gonna say? "My wife is my daughter, transformed using ancient magic." Shallan/Chana is the Davar Ghostblood connection. She was soulcasting the family wealth, not Luesh. It's also how she has Shardplate in Thayen Field. It's how she remembers Urithiru on first walkthrough. Cryptics love her because she is living hundreds of layers of lies.
We know Heralds can bond spren because of Nale. We don't know if a Herald could bond a spren from a different Order, but I think they can when they are as tempting as "Shallan". She's gonna say "I killed Shallan," and Pattern might deadeye because that's who he bonded (this could reawaken Testament). They don't even care, it was worth the risk.
An additional piece of this puzzle is that I think the Stormfather is wrong in the WaT prologue. No Herald died. He's assuming that because he felt the presence of Ulim - who was smuggled to Roshar. The Oathpact was circumvented by Axindweth. They just released Taln because it was already happening.
People always say how much evidence this theory has but the majority of it is "look, here's a thing which doesn't prove it isn't true" and the other 90% is "they both have red hair."
I'd be interested in hearing any actual supporting evidence which isn't just, well this fact doesn't disprove it.
And it will have to get over the glaring contradiction, which is, how on earth could a child beat a Herald in a swordfight. If this theory is correct, Chana is fully aware that she's in a combat situation with her daughter. She expressly wants to kill her because she is a Radiant which means she might have access to a living sprenblade, so you can't say she wouldn't be expecting that. All of the answers I've heard to this are essentially "she just got surprised and was killed" which... apart from how we see that the Heralds are superb combatants even when practically comatose, like Hoid says in Tress, beings don't survive thousands of years without being killed, if they are careless about things which might kill them. If Chana really is just an idiot like people say, who's apt to not take precautions when something might kill her, how did she last six thousand years without being run over by a cart?
Regarding Adolin, I think he will develop a new different bond, we now thanks to Tress of the emerald treee that other bonds exist like the Luhel bond, maybe Adolin forms a distinct bond and becomes a brand new “thing” never seen before, which does strike a similarity with Renarin and his weird bond too.
I agree entirely with cultivation being the true final enemy. I think it’s even possible that Dalinar wins the contest of champions in book 5 dying in the process and cultivation taking over and or absorbing the shard of odium. We know that some of our current lead POvs take a backseat in the last 5 books but that doesn’t automatically mean they all die and or are removed from the story in another way. Could just mean that the enemy grows beyond their capabilities and the heralds need to be front and center to resolve the conflict.
Your talk of Cultivation solidified a theory I had been toying with. Firstly, I agree, I believe you are correct that Cultivation will be the primary antagonist. I think she was not only present when Tanavast was shattered, but was the architect of the plan to begin with. To add to this Taravangian as Odium : I do not believe he will continue with Odiums original plans. When he started the diagram, he set out with the goal to save humanity, he was able to save his kingdom with previous Odium. Now that he holds the shard, I believe he will work to further that goal now. I believe that Cultivation has a hatred of humans, where I'm not sure if it has ever been stated, but I think the singers were made by collaboration of Tanavast and Cultivation, (similar to what ruin and preservation did) and I think she became jealous when Honor shifted his favor to humans when they made it to Roshar.
Great video, can't wait for Book 5, I am also abstaining from reading the preview chapters
There might be a WoB about the origins of the singers, but I don't remember for sure. Personally I believe they actually predate the shards, but with cultivation being a dragon, I think your theory still works. Her intent would make her more interested in seeing the growth of the Singers, since they are only found on this planet whereas it could easily be said that humans are a weed in the garden of the cosmere, to take the plant metaphor further.
Also, some background info I probably should have included in the video since it makes the theory even stronger, Taravangian wasn't always going to become Odium in the series outline. After book 4 Brandon said it was always a possibility, however he hadn't decided for sure to do it until after book 3. He did it just because after Odium's failure in book three Rasye lacked the necessary threat level in the reader's mind. That background info just makes Odium come off as even more of a red herring. I mean, if the character themselves can just be switched out without any issue for the overall plotting of the series than it calls into question if they are anything more than a misdirect.
Pretty sure the singers were present before the Shards arrived iirc
I mean, WoB or it didn't happen, but yes I think that's also correct
I would argue that Cultivation couldn't see through Renarin's foresight, she was just in contact with Sja-Anat and they conspired together to bring down Odium with Taravangian as a pawn ready to promote to queen essentially. She set out from the beginning to grant the boon he originally asked for "the capacity to save humanity" aka the Shard of Odium, with the smart and emotional days being only a means to an end. I think she definitely does have an upper hand in the conflict, but I don't buy a full on "villain" characterization. She doesn't want Roshar to be stagnant or caught in the cycle of desolations anymore. That means ending the conflict between Odium and Honor once and for all.
Adolin bonding Maya: CRACKED 🤩
Adolin becoming Odium's Champion: WHACKED 💀
I’ve also been thinking that Adolin might be Odium’s champion! And that it isn’t actually a child, but Dalinar seeing flashbacks to Adolin as a child and being unable to kill his son. I think Adolin has been built up as a dueller so much that it just makes so much sense for him to be a part of the contest of champions in some way
This would be so unbelievably cruel to poor Shallan though... It makes a lot of sense...I just hope it doesn't happen
Child champion might be “popular” but it’s absolutely the most hated theory. Also I’m pretty sure this refers to El or Nale.
Yeah it seems like the contest of champions will be the catalyst for all the action in book 5. Also it seems like Dalinar has to lose or draw or not do it or something. It would be weird if the book took place over 10 days considering some of the traveling we know has to happen. Also it would be really weird if Dalinar won the contest 10 days into the book.
I mean, I can see Brandon managing to stretch the entire book to ten days, however I just finished a re-read of Elantris and he kinda struggled with the believability imho in that book by leaving it to only three months so we'll see if he can do better with something like that now
Cool video!
I’d recommend normalizing background audio to -24DB and your audio to -6 or -3DB
Agreed. Good video.
Also, maybe consider notes to refer to and give you candid thoughts, rather than reading the whole thing. It could sound more natural.
My theory:
Kal will swear his 5th oath as someone important dies to protect him (my guess is Adolin) . And will be smthing like: "I accept that I too need to be protected by those I love" then boom
I actually like this theory
Cool theory, but I don't think it will be Adolin... maybe his father, or Moash, who will show remorse and give his life to defend Kaladin. Yes, Moash...
I've seen the idea that Kal will swear the Fifth Ideal just as Syl is killed with Moash's knife, or pulled into the Material Realm by Ishar, never knowing if his words were accepted or not. I hate it, as I really don't want anything bad to happen to Kaladin (or Syl haha), but it is an idea.
I agree with the contest of champions not being the most important part of this book. The terms that were agreed to are pretty reasonable, and win or lose result in an end to the war.
Underrated channel. Awesome video, man!
Thanks for this cool video 😁, all that’s left to do is advertise it
Odium will choose fire as his champion. You heard it here first folks.
Why would fire agree when it's more likely for fire to just choose to remain stick instead?
Bro is not the mad king 💀
I think Maya will become a Radiant herself somehow.
Maya and Adolin bond but she's the Radiant and he becomes a sword in Shadesmar. Adolin would love being a sword.
I think that the lost shardblades that bond w/ their weilder will become more like a psuedo honor blade
All spren that take part in a Nahel Bond are Radiants. In The Sunlit Man, Auxiliary refers to himself as a Knight Radiant
Neither Dalinar nor Kaladin will die.
Dalinar has heavy implications to become Odium's new champion and go forward into the other books as an unwilling villain bound by oaths.
Kaladin literally cannot die from a storywriting standpoint. It runs completely counter to his entire plot arc. It would, simply, be bad writing to have him die at this point. However, he also needs a way to be removed from the action of the books and prevented from acting against Odium directly (because let's face it, Moash is taking over Kaladin's role after his inevitable redemption arc). So we have two storylines for Kaladin which say he can't be killed. 1) His depression plotline. Having him die after striving so hard to live is a betrayal of this character arc and completely undermines it. 2) His non-violence plotline. Kaladin is at his limit and cannot fight anymore, he needs to retire, but there is still a massive war against evil to fight. Kaladin wants to heal and to help others. What can be done? He needs to be removed from the story because he cannot stop fighting when a fight needs to happen, and he can't die, so we go to option 3.
3) In the sunlit man, Nomad is surprised to see Kaladin off of Roshar (he thinks its Kaladin anyways). Not that he's surprised to see Kaladin alive (implying he's not dead and is still alive even in the far future), that he is merely off of Roshar. What is the easiest explanation for this in a time period with both worldhoppers and intergalactic space ships? Simple, Kaladin CANNOT leave Roshar. He is bound there by oath. What I'm hinting at is that Kaladin is an invested Shard - A reborn shard of Honor to be specific. Dalinar will fall due to his agreement with Odium and the battle of champions, and this will kill the stormfather (as its death has been foreshadowed and outright predicted multiple times), and the stormfather will be sundered and a huge portion of Honor's power will be released into Roshar and, just like in Mistborn, ready to be claimed by a human vessel. Kaladin, the SON OF TANAVAST will pick up the power of Honor and become a new Shard, albeit a weakened one. With this, both story arcs are concluded and not contradicted. He will live on and get past his trauma, and he will help people and most importantly, he will be bound by oaths not to directly interfere in the war, which removes his ability to fight and allows him to focus on healing people. It literally accomplishes every story-beat Kal has.
It actually creates a perfect symbolic synergy with Harmony too. Harmony has the power of two shards, and even though it's just two infinities of equal power, there does seem some reason Odium fears the raw power of it (as Ruin and Preservation also had "infinite" powers, but one was more infinite than the other and they were unbalanced). Conversely, Kaladin as Honor would be so heavily invested in Roshar with the Spren that he would undoubtedly be the weakest Shard in existence, but perhaps that allows him additional freedoms to act with purpose that other shards like Harmony cannot. Harmony is crippled with indecision because of its Intents being contradictory. This new Honor would be more of a blending between power and man. Less a full God and more Kaladin becoming the storm itself.
2:50 I definitely believe that whatever bond Adolin makes will be wholly unique like Renarin's he will not be like other edgedancers
To me it doesn't make sense for book 5, the climax novel of the 1st arc, to have the arc 1 climax halfway through. Arc 1 can be described as "Honor vs Odium" the Contest of Champions is very clearly set up as putting a definitive end to this war one way or another. It would end the conflict of arc 1. At most I can see 100 maybe 200 pages dedicated to the aftermath and set up.
For my out there theory, I think for vol 6+ we might see some Cultivation and/or Autonomy stuff, with Lift playing a significant role (that chicken is a chekhov's gun waiting to happen). Cultivation and Autonomy kinda have that YingYang stuff going on from what we've seen and we're pretty muxh entering an Autonomy Cosmere Arc after Wind and Truth with Elantris and Ghost Blood
I don't know that I agree that Cultivation necessarily knew what would happen and could see through Renarin's influence. Also let's just skip past how stupid I think it is that Renarin, merely by existing, can blind the God who gave him the future-sight power, for like a mile radius around him, all the time, whether he's using the power actively or not.
I think that future sight isn't a guarantee of victory, nor is it the only way to achieve victory. I can't currently see through my wall. Yet I might be able to hear the rain, or perhaps I saw the clouds before I came inside, and I can determine that it's most likely raining, even without direct knowledge. There are ways to know a thing other than directly seeing it, there are ways to plan for the future besides literal prescience. I think it's possible she set up what she did in expectation of events and, like Harmony says in Bands of Mourning, trusts in her pawns to carry out their work. I think the fact that her plan worked can't be used as proof that she had the future-vision to know that it was impossible for her plan to fail, just like if I claim a coin will land heads-up because I'm wearing a red hat and it does in fact land head's up, that doesn't prove that I was correct in saying that while I'm wearing a red hat, all coins will flip heads.
I must admit that your theory that Cultivation is the real enemy is very interesting.
1. As they say: Where two fight there the third benefits...
For thousands of years Odium and Honor have fought and weakened each other, and Cultivation has gone into hiding. I find it hard to believe that she has no plan... Cultivation waited thousands of years in hiding... but for what?
2 Note that an interesting situation has arisen:
Dalinar now represents Honor. Taravangian is now Odium.
And both of these men in the past met with Cultivation, which gave them its gifts and which led them to become de facto Honor and Odium...
Coincidence? She steered their destiny... It seems that Cultivation foresaw and directed their fate so that they became Honor and Odium and faced each other.
3. During Odium's conversation with Dalinar, Odium tells Dalinar that if he had found out what Cultivation really wanted to do with Roshar,
he would have chosen Odium as ruler.... I wonder... Was Odium lying or not? Oathbringer, Chapter 57:
“Ask Cultivation about this when you meet her again. Ask her what she would want for Roshar. I think you'll find me a better choice then” Interesting...
4. But what might Cultivation desire most?
Conjecture: perhaps I'll quote from the Lord of the Rings and Gandalf's conversation with the Treebeard:
“Yes, but you did not plot to plant the whole world with trees and smother all other life on earth” (The Two Towers, Chapter 10).”
Maybe Cultivation wants to rid the world of both Humans and Singers and create a “paradise” for plants and animals, and that's why she actually caused the eternal war in which Humans and Singers annihilate each other...
One theory that i have put in several comment sections is that Jah Annat will end up taking over as the main villian. we still know very little about her part in the false desolation which did not involve odium at all but did involve forms of power for the ancient singers and ultimately lead to the recreance, and the fall of the singers into parshmen and the formation of the branch people the listeners or parshendi. what we do know aobut these events is that forms of power were given through and unmade and when that unmade was sealed some fallout took place, we also know that Jah Ahnat is making corrupted spren, i think many believe that this is related to odium but odium doesnt know much about these spren and he has his own spren. i suspect that the death rattles and visions of dalinar that refer to the True Desolation will be one that targets both humans and parshmen (singers and listeners alike) and brings about a literal age of darkness. as far as cultivation goes i personally think she is a force for good mostly because two of the three characters whom have interacted with her have been significant and have had good intention. taravangian has indeed become odium sure but we often forget the intent of cultivations touch to the three character who were taravangian dalinar and lift. Lift is still largely a mystery to me but i suspect her humble and forgiving nature will be important in stormlight 5. dalinar was prepared by cultivation to give him a real chance to deny odium in stormlight 3 which pretty much defeated rayse which was then set in stone when kaladin denied him in stormlight 4. now back to taravangian. what was his curse and boon? taravangian asked for the intelligence and compassion to save the world, the curse is he had to navigate those two feelings seprately and learn to exercise great self control in both extremes and learn teh balance of both. we learn from some excerpts in way of kings (hoid's discussions) that shards have an influence on the bearer. for example ati was initially a very kind and gentle man but evenutally became what we now recognize Ruin to have been. Rayse, according to hoid was alwasy dispicable and one of the worst of men, i imagine he was something like sadeas in the eyes of Hoid. the fact that rayse ended up with odiums shard is really bad. i suspect that he has caused problems in various parts of the cosmere and honor and cultivation knew he would fight over roshar. i think honor's death was planned. possibly by tannivast in tandem but more likely by cultivation alone. i think she used honor willingly or not to weaken rayse and put him in a position where others could take his place as the shard of odium. she then gradually prepared certain people to take up the shards. taravangian for odium, and dalinar for honor. taravangian has been prepared to be odium and cultivation said she had alot to teach him. i think she is going to train taravangian to use his refined temporment to contorl odiums shard better than rayse or ati. as for dalinar i think he would make an exceptional version of honor but i would not be suprised if this part of cultivations plan is somehow foiled and someone else less expected ends up the shard much like sazed became harmony. that said its quite possible dalinar ends up as honor still IMO. as for the contest of champions i think its possible they end up picking szeth as the champion after dalinar fails or cant bring himself to do it. of course szeth too could fail to kill the child since as far as we know its the one type of person he hasnt killed yet. there is alot to think about and alot of possibilities. its gonna be cool to see.
I also think Adolin will he Odiums Champion. As you said, he is very impulsive and his relationship with Dalinar isn't in a good place rn. In fact I predicted that Kaladin would actually drive a wedge between them, as Kaladin is more like Dalinar than Adolin is and Adolin insecurities about that relationship could push him to be more impulsive. Also none of my homies trust Cultivation.
I think the Unmade in Shinovar is Chemoarish, the Dustmother. This kinda fits with your theory about cultivation having more complex plans because she seems to be conflated with the Nightwatcher in the histories of Roshar(Oathrbinger ch.108.)
Can’t focus on anything but that killer stache
Thanks!
I think there will be a time skip between book 5-6. It feels like this will be the space where the forces of good can begin to build. So I think character deaths for Dalinar and Khaladin will be good moments and okay as they provide the space for others to grow and make the true push against evil.
hey great vid! im not going to tell anyone else how to enjoy the cosmere, but i would definitely recommend reading the WaT preveiw chapters. They are only going to be releasing the first 20 chapters, so it won't reveal too much, but what ive read so far in the first 6 chapters has completely upended alot of stuff from the first 4 books. Im rereading them all now and it made it much more interesting to see the foreshadowing.
I will not be doing that, because it ruins the experience of getting the physical book and opening to page one. There's nothing more disappointing than sitting down with a 1000+ page book and realizing you're 20% of the way through it without even cracking the spin. I've already been there done that with the sample chapters for several previous books.
Great video! Some feedback that you can absolutely ignore: the sound balance going 3:30 could be a tiny bit worked out! Music was a little too loud compared to your voice. Content wise: you rule!
Yeah we've gotten that feedback and it should be better for the next video. Thank you though!
Weird reading of the end of book 3. Dalinar was able to resist the thrill not because he had control of his urges but because he had confronted his trauma and memories. He says "you cannot have my pain" and that let's him deny the orb
You got me wondering if Cultivation is going to be the main villain of the second 5 book series. Maybe book 5 does end with the Odium confrontation, but the aftermath sets up Cultivation as actually having been the bigger problem all along.. kind of an ominous ending, then we get the time skip to that starting to kick off ..? I really don't want Adolin to end up as Odium's champion though. He might have a tendency to snap and do violence but for the most part that lad is a golden retriever of a person. haha. I also really wanna see Maya come back fully, I keep hoping that theory is right.
On my most recent re-read before WaT, I got this sinking feeling as well that Adolin would potentially be Odium’s champion as well.
I don’t have a lot to support it other than that feeling and the things you mentioned, but it is a bit disheartening that you felt this after your most recent re-read as well.
That would muddy the waters so much and make everything feel much more bleak.
Does Adolin personally know that Odium needs to be kept on Roshar? If not, that could be a way for TaraVodium recruit him.
“I really don’t want to be imprisoned. Moreso than I care about winning. If you win, I will leave Roshar for good. I have no champion to defeat Dalinar as he was able to overcome his killing of your mother to reject my choosing of him as my champion. His “Honor” was brushing off murdering your mother in an animalistic rage. Your “Odium” killed Saddeas and allowed the Alethi to finally come together and stop in-fighting.”
I mean… 🥺
Just looked into it and he is bound to Rosharan system regardless, right? But Dalinar, Szeth, and Nightblood won’t be.
HAHA!
Lyft is going to, accidentally, be Dalinar's champion!
What would Kal gain by swearing the 5th ideal? I struggle to imagine how he could be MORE powerful? That said... I only want good things for my boy Kaladin, so here's hoping!
I agree that Cultivation is suspicious as hell! However, I don't agree that prophecies were helpful in Mistborn Era 1 - they were distorted and led them astray until the very end. Perhaps they would have done better if someone had told them not to trust those who claim to see the future! I agree that something has to come of this, because even very logical Jasnah is quite alarmed by Renarin in Oathbringer.
I HATE the child champion theory because it is so hateful and cruel and feels like something Sanderson wouldn't write, but it fits frighteningly well with Odium's new vessel, after ALL the conversations that Taravangian had with Dalinar - in Oathbringer particularly - about 'THE GREATER GOOD'. Todium will know that Dalinar will not want to do something evil for the greater good.
Overall, I'm quite worried about how much pain and suffering will be in this book!!
Maybe it’s just my head canon but for adolin to be odiums champion wouldn’t he have to agree to it?
Great review! Thanks!
Thanks man!
I think maya will bond Adolin, in an inverse of the usual Nahel bond. Leading to whatever was going on with Zellion and Aux.
Passion and hatred, odium. Just my thoughts
Great video you deserve so many more subs!❤
Thank you! I'm working towards it!
Im pretty sure the suckling baby death rattle was a vision of the past. I think the vision of nales past that dalinar saw depicted that death rattle happening
You're the first person I've ever seen making that connection. I think it's honestly a pretty tenuous one if I'm being honest. The only thing we see there is that Nale is protecting a child. There's absolutely no indication that he had some reason to be conflicted about whether or not to kill that child.
Ishar is gonna be Todium's champ.
Todium will pretend to be Adolnasium.
Very interesting
but the music is far too loud, I can barely understand you.
a little feedback your voice is lower than the music which overpowers it
Editor for the channel here: what device are you listening on? I had this same feedback on the last video and thought I had lowered the music significantly. I checked it on my computer and my phone before uploading and it seemed to be just fine ( and the levels in my editor indicated that as well). I’m wondering if it’s a device specific issue or if I’m just missing the mark for some other reason
@@lightinmylibrary Tried it on pc
Why is a music louder than your voice
could you look at the camera while speaking lol
nah
If any of Dalinar's sons will be the champion, it should be Renarin , no? He is the one that sees the future and is bonded to a corrupted spren. But I am not super sure of this (of anything really lol), the first time I read that chapter of Dalinar's vision of Odium's champion I thought it was Eshonai!
That doesn't really work for me personally but I could see a world where it works
There's the whole lift's gift from the night watcher being her becoming unchanging, she could be the champion because she's unaffected by odium'e corruption? That's something I thought of but I'm not sure.
I'm pretty sure that Renarin is just about the LAST choice of Odium for his Champion. Even assuming Renarin agrees, Renarin's involvement in the contest in such a central way would blind Odium's future sight regarding the outcome, and that doesn't sound like something Odium would be willing to give up.
That music is too laugh, consider lowering the volume
BGM too loud bro! otherwise solid video
Thanks! I thought I had lowered it enough after getting comments on it last time, but now I know I need to lower it even more!
Music too load can't hear you talk
Editor for the channel here: what device are you listening on? I had this same feedback on the last video and thought I had lowered the music significantly. I checked it on my computer and my phone before uploading and it seemed to be just fine ( and the levels in my editor indicated that as well). I’m wondering if it’s a device specific issue or if I’m just missing the mark for some other reason
I loved the video, thanks for making it! If I have one suggestion it would be to turn the background music down. Keep them coming 🎉
Wtf is this music