Thanks Jack for the review! I'm a founder of HomeGrid and we're excited to be competing for that top spot. We hope to give our customers the most value possible and to continue pushing the tech forward.
Hello! I really like the idea and the look of the Homegrid stackable system, but what about overheating with such a closed in tight system? Do the batteries need or have any venting?
Do you guys have drawings and 100% certification for seismic four earthquake zone ratings in California? They need to be signed off by a structural engineer in the Santa Barbara area otherwise the permit is a no go.
SOK, Trophy, Jakiper, EG4, etc. Lithium Iron Phosphate server rack batteries--lots of quality options out there that are 1/2 or 1/3 the price of the units here.
Thanks for a educational video without getting sucked into a sales pitch and flooding my e-mail with messages. The overall project time line would be interesting from deciding through permitting, new roof, tree removal, installation to handing over the keys. I have considered solar but never felt I was getting the whole story. Thanks for your series, I have subscribed. Good stuff.
Thank you. The solar sales process can become extremely "salesy", with companies selling the investment aspect, and never mentioning the technology involved. My hope with these videos is to provide that information, so people can make an educated decision on which equipment to purchase, when they do choose to go solar.
Well done! You present many of the leading options, you evaluate them against several leading decision criteria, and then you provide a logical and unbiased analysis of each alternative in line with each attribute. I spent my career advising top global CFOs on multi-criteria decisions for major capital investment decisions, and in my opinion you exhibit some of the best leading edge practices in decision making. And you applied that towards decisions that will help us sustain and improve the environment. Thank you!
Thank you Chuck! Really appreciate that comment. Just trying to put out valuable content, so people can be better informed when making a buying decision. Unfortunately, this industry is filled with sales people who are trying to sell the “monthly savings” aspect of a Solar Loan vs. a utility bill, and all I hope to do with these videos is provide practical information regarding what people are investing into, when they buy a battery/solar system.
@@jackthesolarguy I’m curious about your thoughts on integrating the various recommendations. For instance, I live in Vermont where there are cold and snowy winters, and so the Aptos solar panels are a good fit. The Enphase micro inverters seem compelling. And the Franklin batteries are appealing. Do they all fit together easily?
@@chuckalsdorf557 They will pair well together. In fact, that trifecta is commonly known as one the highest quality pairings that you can have. There is not currently a manufacture that produces all three components of a system (Panels, Inverters, Batteries) under one brand, so in all circumstances, you will be mix and matching from different manufactures. Good job doing your research and finding a top tier trifecta!
LG Home 8 is coming! 7.5 kW continuous and 9 kW surge with a 14.4 kWh battery, excellent software and whole home back up smart box very similar to the Tesla power wall. And an extremely competitive price which will only get better as LG is dropping $5.5 billion on a new battery manufacturing plant in the Phoenix area.
Nice evaluation! 👍 So many choices now, but allows users to consider options. Being in a canyon and rural area, I'd consider another iQ10 battery or connect a generator for long periods of grid outage.
A little late to the comments here, but I had a couple comments/questions: 1.) it seems (unless I missed one) that these are all AC coupled. Is there a scenario where one might prefer DC coupled? 2.) Any comparisons on other performance characteristics, e.g. temperature? I had a solar salesperson warn me about poor performance in 100+ degree desert heat. Maybe an idea for your next video? :)
Great questions. We always prefer to put batteries in the garage, or in the basement, to mitigate heat effects. I tried to hit the major performance characteristics, and most other metrics are likely less important. AC coupled systems are much easier to install, which is one of the reasons most batteries are AC coupled, and additionally, being AC coupled, it allows for the battery to charge from both the panels and grid. DC coupled battery will be slightly more efficient. Jack
@@jackthesolarguy Thanks! Yeah I suppose I haven't really measured the temp in the garage; just knew that it was "hot" in the summer. I seem to remember a salesperson telling me that the choice of AC or DC would have some impact on net metering; maybe the DC coupled would allow you to sell back at peak times, or something? My memory is fuzzy.
Yay! Finally, a man, who's correctly stating capacity as kilowatthours! Let's celebrate! However: 1:24, you say 10 Powerwalls can be stacked, while your table shows 6. Which is correct then?
Thanks for such a straightforward, needs-based, review! I am convinced that the FranklinWH is the battery that will best suit us. However, because they are so new, I haven't been able to find anyone in southern Maryland installing them yet. Do you know of any installers in the DC Maryland area installing the FranklinWH battery system? Thanks and great job on the battery comparison video!
Thank you for the positive feedback. FranklinWH is a newer product, so there distribution network is still in its infant stage. I am able to coordinate projects with Franklin products in Maryland, with multiple partners installing in that region.
In other videos, you talk about the importance of selecting and knowing your installer. You call out specifically working to evaluate the likelihood that the installer will be there for warranty services years down the line. In this video, you don't mention the importance of assuring the battery manufacturer will, likewise, be there. Why? I think the differences between some of the manufacturers you listed in this video are significant. At least, a well-established publicly traded company with strong (largely public) financials, strong commitments to customer service, and separate insurance underwriting their battery warranty is a lot different than a very small privately held start-up with unknown financials, no formal customer service commitments, and no separate warranty underwriting. IMO there's a LOT more to discuss/highlight related to battery warranties than years alone. For example, remedies. There's a BIG difference across the different manufacturers you've chosen in this video. Why didn't mention anything related to warranty remedies? There's a significant difference between a warranty that obligates the manufacturer to repair or replace a battery and one which allows the manufacturer to simply provide a prorated refund at their sole discretion. I mean, if, worst case, I had to rely on my battery warranty I'd rather, and imagine most folks would also, have my warranty provide for a fully functional battery 9 years in version some measly refund of perhaps
Correct. Installation companies will service warranties on behalf of the manufacturer, which is why that was important to note. Manufactures do not have individual maintenance teams, which is why installation companies offer the service of servicing product warranties
@Solar Pros OK. That didn't answer my questions or address any of my points, but it's still worth noting. Just as it is probably worth noting that the chances of finding an installation company to repair or replace a battery at their sole expense (without a manufacturer's financial support) are near zero, even if they're highly reputable and did the original installation. Meaning all the points I raised are valid regardless of the installer, and MUCH more should be considered when looking at a manufacturer's warranty beyond simply "this one has the longest standard warranty, so it must be the best", or something similar. Promoting that sort of thinking only encourages manufacturers to put longer but much more restrictive warranties in place while simultaneously devaluing their warranty remedies. That may be more profitable for them but is ultimately a disservice to the end users. Again, please don't contribute to that.
Thank you for this presentation. Do the batteries have a rating of how much their charge or capacity will drop off over the years? Also, what is the life expectancy of the batteries? Much appreciated!
Thank you so much for this video. This is very informative, I wish to understand whether I can pair my enphase solar PV system with Tesla powerwall / HOmegrid / Franklin battery and still get sunshine back up ?
I just installed a 25k system using Enphase IQ8 microinverters. I really like the microgrid capability, but the batteries seem a bit smaller compared to competition. Looking to take tax credit and apply to batteries in 2023, have any thoughts on direction I should go?
Thanks for such a detailed and helpful breakdown. I'm looking to incorporate an EV into a new home solar installation. It would seem that the Franklin is the best solution for this as it seems that it is capable of accepting multiple inputs. What are your thoughts and do you have any plans for a video explaining the pros and cons of such an option?
I plan on making a video regarding that in the future. Franklin would be a great option for EV backup, but I would likely recommend two or three batteries if you choose to do that
@@jackthesolarguy Thanks. That will be great. I'm sure that there'll be more and more people who will be interested in using a car to supplement their system. I'm planning on using as little as possible electric from the grid. My electric company will allow me to bank credits, but won't pay for any unused ones, but if it means banking a little more than I use, then I'll not be too upset. While my car is at the house, it's pretty much a certainty that both my wife and I will be there, but on those rare occasions I'd like to have a battery to ensure maximum use of the sun and keep the house running. I hope that makes sense!
Great, objective info!! Two questions: - if you have micro inverters on the ground-mounted panels, a short distance from the house, do you need AC side batteries downstream of those inverters? - what do you think of Battleborn Lithium Iron Phospate batteries for a off-grid home? Thanks!!
Micro inverters invert energy at the panel, so the batteries would ned to be downstream. As far as the batteries are concerned, you would likely have to pair the Battleborn Lithium Iron Phospate batteries with a Sol Ark 15k inverter, in order to back feed to the home.
With cars gaining two way use, tell us about that and how it works. Can it replace a whole home battery? What inverters work with it? Can the car recharge from solar when in island mode and can solar run the house AND provide some charge to the car. How is that managed between the car and solar giving the home power?
That option is still in its beta years, due to the fact that doing so can accelerate the degradation of batteries. SolArk is an all in one hybrid inverter, when paired with the right battery, would likely be your best option to do so.
I have just had a 5.95 kW Sunpower solar system installed. I am considering adding battery. The system uses Enphase microinverters. Are you familiar with the Sunpower battery?
Curious on you opinion of Schneider Inverters, specifically the Schneider Conext XW PRO 6.8KW Hybrid Inverter? I am going to be fully off-grid in New Mexico just south of Santa Fe which is about 6000 feet, so it does get cold in the winters. Thx in advance.
I don’t review a lot of hybrid inverters, because they are not typically carried by installers, nor very popular in residential installs, but they are a great option when going off grid. Most familiar with SolArk, but I don’t know much about Schneider.
Hey Angela. Unfortunately I am not to well versed on battery backup for RV’s. I’m sure someone else on UA-cam has good information regarding that question.
Hello Jack, what battery would you recommend when the electrical power is down and it's cloudy for days and have to use a gas generator to power up the battery. Great job with your chanel. Very educational.
Flow uses a quite different battery chemistry, and are most commonly paired with large commercial ground mounts, though I can make a video in the future about them
Surge is the maximum power that the battery can supply, usually for only a short time. A high surge is typically required to start an air conditioner unit, or another electrical component in your home, which uses substantial power to start up. If your battery has a low surge rating, it might not provide enough power to start these appliances up, which is why surge is important
It's very exciting that Elon Musk is aligning himself with the dumb Republicans and Ron DeSantis. This will ensure that many people will begin to refuse the Tesla power wall regardless of its performance track record. This will keep the playing field level for all the other folks out there. Embrace the change!
Thanks Jack for the review! I'm a founder of HomeGrid and we're excited to be competing for that top spot. We hope to give our customers the most value possible and to continue pushing the tech forward.
Nice!
Hello! I really like the idea and the look of the Homegrid stackable system, but what about overheating with such a closed in tight system?
Do the batteries need or have any venting?
Do you guys have drawings and 100% certification for seismic four earthquake zone ratings in California? They need to be signed off by a structural engineer in the Santa Barbara area otherwise the permit is a no go.
@@simonpaine2347 yes ，we have.
SOK, Trophy, Jakiper, EG4, etc. Lithium Iron Phosphate server rack batteries--lots of quality options out there that are 1/2 or 1/3 the price of the units here.
Excellent overview of home batteries, very concise, this video has no fat at all, thank you :)
Thank you
Thanks for a educational video without getting sucked into a sales pitch and flooding my e-mail with messages. The overall project time line would be interesting from deciding through permitting, new roof, tree removal, installation to handing over the keys.
I have considered solar but never felt I was getting the whole story. Thanks for your series, I have subscribed. Good stuff.
Thank you. The solar sales process can become extremely "salesy", with companies selling the investment aspect, and never mentioning the technology involved. My hope with these videos is to provide that information, so people can make an educated decision on which equipment to purchase, when they do choose to go solar.
Well done! You present many of the leading options, you evaluate them against several leading decision criteria, and then you provide a logical and unbiased analysis of each alternative in line with each attribute. I spent my career advising top global CFOs on multi-criteria decisions for major capital investment decisions, and in my opinion you exhibit some of the best leading edge practices in decision making. And you applied that towards decisions that will help us sustain and improve the environment. Thank you!
Thank you Chuck! Really appreciate that comment. Just trying to put out valuable content, so people can be better informed when making a buying decision. Unfortunately, this industry is filled with sales people who are trying to sell the “monthly savings” aspect of a Solar Loan vs. a utility bill, and all I hope to do with these videos is provide practical information regarding what people are investing into, when they buy a battery/solar system.
@@jackthesolarguy I’m curious about your thoughts on integrating the various recommendations. For instance, I live in Vermont where there are cold and snowy winters, and so the Aptos solar panels are a good fit. The Enphase micro inverters seem compelling. And the Franklin batteries are appealing. Do they all fit together easily?
@@chuckalsdorf557 They will pair well together. In fact, that trifecta is commonly known as one the highest quality pairings that you can have. There is not currently a manufacture that produces all three components of a system (Panels, Inverters, Batteries) under one brand, so in all circumstances, you will be mix and matching from different manufactures. Good job doing your research and finding a top tier trifecta!
It will be good clear cut, if you include the pricing of each batteries.
LG Home 8 is coming! 7.5 kW continuous and 9 kW surge with a 14.4 kWh battery, excellent software and whole home back up smart box very similar to the Tesla power wall. And an extremely competitive price which will only get better as LG is dropping $5.5 billion on a new battery manufacturing plant in the Phoenix area.
You are a very good speaker!
Thank you
Nice evaluation! 👍 So many choices now, but allows users to consider options. Being in a canyon and rural area, I'd consider another iQ10 battery or connect a generator for long periods of grid outage.
Good point. The iQ10 pairs great with the Enphase micro inverters, if you choose to work with that inverter
Doing panels this year and batteries next year. So hopefully when I'm ready the Power Wall 3's will be available
Nice to see all the new battery options cropping up! 🎉
Yes indeed!
A little late to the comments here, but I had a couple comments/questions: 1.) it seems (unless I missed one) that these are all AC coupled. Is there a scenario where one might prefer DC coupled? 2.) Any comparisons on other performance characteristics, e.g. temperature? I had a solar salesperson warn me about poor performance in 100+ degree desert heat. Maybe an idea for your next video? :)
Great questions. We always prefer to put batteries in the garage, or in the basement, to mitigate heat effects. I tried to hit the major performance characteristics, and most other metrics are likely less important. AC coupled systems are much easier to install, which is one of the reasons most batteries are AC coupled, and additionally, being AC coupled, it allows for the battery to charge from both the panels and grid. DC coupled battery will be slightly more efficient. Jack
@@jackthesolarguy Thanks! Yeah I suppose I haven't really measured the temp in the garage; just knew that it was "hot" in the summer. I seem to remember a salesperson telling me that the choice of AC or DC would have some impact on net metering; maybe the DC coupled would allow you to sell back at peak times, or something? My memory is fuzzy.
Yay! Finally, a man, who's correctly stating capacity as kilowatthours! Let's celebrate!
However: 1:24, you say 10 Powerwalls can be stacked, while your table shows 6. Which is correct then?
Thanks for such a straightforward, needs-based, review! I am convinced that the FranklinWH is the battery that will best suit us. However, because they are so new, I haven't been able to find anyone in southern Maryland installing them yet. Do you know of any installers in the DC Maryland area installing the FranklinWH battery system? Thanks and great job on the battery comparison video!
Thank you for the positive feedback. FranklinWH is a newer product, so there distribution network is still in its infant stage. I am able to coordinate projects with Franklin products in Maryland, with multiple partners installing in that region.
@@jackthesolarguy Thanks. How can I contact you off of the public chat to discuss?
@@darrenrogers5713 There is a link in the description of the video, where you can book a time on my calendar to discuss options for your property.
Most excellent video. Thanks
In other videos, you talk about the importance of selecting and knowing your installer. You call out specifically working to evaluate the likelihood that the installer will be there for warranty services years down the line. In this video, you don't mention the importance of assuring the battery manufacturer will, likewise, be there. Why?
I think the differences between some of the manufacturers you listed in this video are significant. At least, a well-established publicly traded company with strong (largely public) financials, strong commitments to customer service, and separate insurance underwriting their battery warranty is a lot different than a very small privately held start-up with unknown financials, no formal customer service commitments, and no separate warranty underwriting.
IMO there's a LOT more to discuss/highlight related to battery warranties than years alone. For example, remedies. There's a BIG difference across the different manufacturers you've chosen in this video. Why didn't mention anything related to warranty remedies? There's a significant difference between a warranty that obligates the manufacturer to repair or replace a battery and one which allows the manufacturer to simply provide a prorated refund at their sole discretion. I mean, if, worst case, I had to rely on my battery warranty I'd rather, and imagine most folks would also, have my warranty provide for a fully functional battery 9 years in version some measly refund of perhaps
Correct. Installation companies will service warranties on behalf of the manufacturer, which is why that was important to note. Manufactures do not have individual maintenance teams, which is why installation companies offer the service of servicing product warranties
@Solar Pros OK. That didn't answer my questions or address any of my points, but it's still worth noting. Just as it is probably worth noting that the chances of finding an installation company to repair or replace a battery at their sole expense (without a manufacturer's financial support) are near zero, even if they're highly reputable and did the original installation. Meaning all the points I raised are valid regardless of the installer, and MUCH more should be considered when looking at a manufacturer's warranty beyond simply "this one has the longest standard warranty, so it must be the best", or something similar.
Promoting that sort of thinking only encourages manufacturers to put longer but much more restrictive warranties in place while simultaneously devaluing their warranty remedies. That may be more profitable for them but is ultimately a disservice to the end users. Again, please don't contribute to that.
Thank you for this presentation. Do the batteries have a rating of how much their charge or capacity will drop off over the years? Also, what is the life expectancy of the batteries? Much appreciated!
Not adversited, however that rating is typically reflected in their warranty. And to your second question, we expect 20-25 years
Thank you so much for this video. This is very informative, I wish to understand whether I can pair my enphase solar PV system with Tesla powerwall / HOmegrid / Franklin battery and still get sunshine back up ?
I just installed a 25k system using Enphase IQ8 microinverters. I really like the microgrid capability, but the batteries seem a bit smaller compared to competition. Looking to take tax credit and apply to batteries in 2023, have any thoughts on direction I should go?
Enphase is a great option, considering you already have their micros… and Franklin is also a great choice!
I've had multiple problems with Generac.
Thanks for such a detailed and helpful breakdown.
I'm looking to incorporate an EV into a new home solar installation. It would seem that the Franklin is the best solution for this as it seems that it is capable of accepting multiple inputs.
What are your thoughts and do you have any plans for a video explaining the pros and cons of such an option?
I plan on making a video regarding that in the future. Franklin would be a great option for EV backup, but I would likely recommend two or three batteries if you choose to do that
@@jackthesolarguy Thanks. That will be great. I'm sure that there'll be more and more people who will be interested in using a car to supplement their system.
I'm planning on using as little as possible electric from the grid. My electric company will allow me to bank credits, but won't pay for any unused ones, but if it means banking a little more than I use, then I'll not be too upset. While my car is at the house, it's pretty much a certainty that both my wife and I will be there, but on those rare occasions I'd like to have a battery to ensure maximum use of the sun and keep the house running.
I hope that makes sense!
@@simonpaine2347 Gotcha. Does your utility company offer you a 1 for 1 net metering rate (pay you back at same price per kwh which you pay)?
@@jackthesolarguy I think that it's 1 for 1, but it's something that I need to check!
Great, objective info!! Two questions:
- if you have micro inverters on the ground-mounted panels, a short distance from the house, do you need AC side batteries downstream of those inverters?
- what do you think of Battleborn Lithium Iron Phospate batteries for a off-grid home?
Thanks!!
Micro inverters invert energy at the panel, so the batteries would ned to be downstream. As far as the batteries are concerned, you would likely have to pair the Battleborn Lithium Iron Phospate batteries with a Sol Ark 15k inverter, in order to back feed to the home.
Thank you
Great comparison! Is LG out of the solar battery business completely?
They pulled out of panel manufacturing completely. Battery’s are up in the air with them
With cars gaining two way use, tell us about that and how it works. Can it replace a whole home battery? What inverters work with it? Can the car recharge from solar when in island mode and can solar run the house AND provide some charge to the car. How is that managed between the car and solar giving the home power?
That option is still in its beta years, due to the fact that doing so can accelerate the degradation of batteries. SolArk is an all in one hybrid inverter, when paired with the right battery, would likely be your best option to do so.
Thanks for this comparison. Can all 5 of these options charge from both solar as well as a generator during times of limited sunlight?
All 5 can charge from solar, however not all of them have equally as good generator connection options.
How much is a typical Franklin Battery install compared to others with either IQ8m or Solaredge Hub?
I have just had a 5.95 kW Sunpower solar system installed. I am considering adding battery. The system uses Enphase microinverters. Are you familiar with the Sunpower battery?
Not familiar with it. Recently came out, and seems as though it hasn’t been distributed to outside installers at scale
Franklin wh is the best
Curious on you opinion of Schneider Inverters, specifically the Schneider Conext XW PRO 6.8KW Hybrid Inverter? I am going to be fully off-grid in New Mexico just south of Santa Fe which is about 6000 feet, so it does get cold in the winters. Thx in advance.
I don’t review a lot of hybrid inverters, because they are not typically carried by installers, nor very popular in residential installs, but they are a great option when going off grid. Most familiar with SolArk, but I don’t know much about Schneider.
Jack, what do you know about doing RV’s for full timers?
Hey Angela. Unfortunately I am not to well versed on battery backup for RV’s. I’m sure someone else on UA-cam has good information regarding that question.
Hello Jack, what battery would you recommend when the electrical power is down and it's cloudy for days and have to use a gas generator to power up the battery. Great job with your chanel. Very educational.
For that compatibility likely the Generac PWRcell or Sol Ark 15k.
Good info thx, what about supercapacitor?
That is not a common option for Solar paired whole home backup
That technology is still a long ways away.
what about flow batterys
Flow uses a quite different battery chemistry, and are most commonly paired with large commercial ground mounts, though I can make a video in the future about them
what's the surge power rating for?
Surge is the maximum power that the battery can supply, usually for only a short time. A high surge is typically required to start an air conditioner unit, or another electrical component in your home, which uses substantial power to start up. If your battery has a low surge rating, it might not provide enough power to start these appliances up, which is why surge is important
@@jackthesolarguy ty
Cost of Franklin battery? Forhhome
Around $13,000
@@jackthesolarguy what is basic things it comes with ?and what can you run on it ? Thanks
It's very exciting that Elon Musk is aligning himself with the dumb Republicans and Ron DeSantis. This will ensure that many people will begin to refuse the Tesla power wall regardless of its performance track record. This will keep the playing field level for all the other folks out there. Embrace the change!