I honestly think they are covertly trying to force people to quit so they won't have to lay them off and deal with the legal/pr headaches and any requirements for severance that may exist.
It's not "forcing people to quit," it's encouraging the employees who can do better somewhere else to get off their ass and leave. It's always a few types who will TRY to keep a job: people who are closing in on whatever they would get if vested/retiring (these basically don't exist anymore, now that companies don't do retirement pensions any more, they do 401-k, and 401-k is portable); people who just love the challenges and opportunities of their job (those people _do_ really exist, they're just rare); people who are too useless, fearful, dependent, and/or other personal issues. Almost anyone is better off _somewhere_ else, instead of where they are. It's not because all people suck; it's because few people find the best possible fit in the first place, and people grow and change over time. Inertia is a thing, savings are rare and attractive to keep, and mortgage and rent and a tremendous need to eat once in a while make having a steady income very desirable!
Working from the office has two, and only two, primary benefits: 1) training new employees, and 2) having a cheerful face to greet customers. Obviously there is value in both of those endeavors. However, that's not all that goes on, and hardly anything else in an office-type, white-collar job actually needs an actual office to get done. There will always be exceptions to these general rules. Nobody is arguing with that. But the typical office functionary who actually knows what the hell he's doing stands to gain nothing, ipso facto, by performing his duties in an office. It's only convenient for managers to have him do so, hence the push to return to the office. Incrementalism is the rule of the day in the name of returning employees to the office, and efforts to do so are steadily ratcheting up, as evidenced by the piece discussed here. I don't see this trend reversing unless some other existential threat were to be visited upon us.
Waste more time in the office dealing with dealing with people asking me to do their job for them. And office politics/gossiping is something that is greatly reduced when working from home.
Dell: We are committed to "net zero", because we at Dell believe in fantasy solutions to imaginary problems! Also Dell: Screw your "carbon footprint"! Commute to the office every day or we will RUIN you!
Threatening to not promote people who never expect or want to be promoted isn't a threat. For most workers anymore, the promotion path is right down the hall marked EXIT.
Threatened with no raises or promotions by a company that doesn't promote or provided raises is not the threat you might think it is. The only way of getting promoted or increasing compensation in tech is job hopping. There is no upward mobility within corporate or product. If you can deliver there is no reason to go into the office other than to train people to replace you.
Unless the commute is like 20 minutes or less or the company pays you so damn well going to office daily is not a good proposition. Employees don't have much loyalty to the companies, and why should they? Most companies have been busy shredding compensation, pensions, etc. If the company sees little value in you as an employee, then the employee will see the company as purely a paycheck. Nothing more. Spending money on expensive gas and hours a week in traffic going to the office to put on a show for the boss? Nah.
Every business tends to have their offices either in business districts or mid town/center, unless they up the salaries twice or three times nobody can afford to live nowhere near those. So on one side is come to office because you are ruining the price of business real estate on other salaries what sallaries it's tough times and the monthly quoter reports are 'record high profits' your employees are not flipping burgers or coal miners, you hired them because they are smart and problem solvers and now your are treating them as they work in flipping McDonald's
The company I worked for wanted to bring back in the software developers. None of us came back. They relented and said software developers didn't need to come back. I don't want to live in hell (Phoenix, AZ) but I want to stay in AZ to be close to family. So, I only work remote. I prefer working in person 2 or 3 days a week, but I prefer to live in the mountains more. After I was laid off it took me 7 months to find a new job. I was getting a little nervous, but living in a more rural community is much better than living in the city.
I couldn’t agree more! I had to work in a large city for about 10 years when I was younger. Once I finally made it out, I swore I’d never live in a populated urban area again. And I’ve been so much happier since.
Personal policy of mine is to not do a single scrap of work in the office any time I'm in there. Laptop does not open, emails don't get checked, I spend 100% of the day in people's cubicles collaborating about football, video games, what we're doing for lunch, etc. It's pretty great.
I left Dell 2 months back after completing 8 years with them. Total waste of my life towards the last 3 years. One of the worst managed firms ever. This is their pathetic strategy to compel people to quit rather than they laying off employees.
Companies should instituted a pay cut for full-time remote workers. The problem with that approach is that it will only exacerbate the passive-aggressive and "quiet quitting." Ultimately, this is contributing to inflation to some degree because money has to represent something and if we are all getting paid to sit on our assess doing nothing, watching Netflix, then I believe this is why inflation continues to be stubborn problem in the United States.
@@albertedwards1612Commuting creates nonproductive inflation aka wasted resources. Extra money wasted on gas, insurance and vehicle+road maintenance goes into the economy.
The problem is that CEOs have small brains and get a little hit of dopamine when they see the name of "their company" on a big building. The people can do the same work remotely and with less time spent sitting around the coffee machine.
When commuting to work alone takes 2 hours and 2 hours back home🏡. 4 hours a day i can cook healthy meal, 1 hr gym exercise etc. 1 hous studing a language and 1 hor extra sleep or hobby. At least in CDMX where down town houses are to expensive for average Méxican i dont know elsewhere but may be the same
I think you captured the general issue...the sense of malaise. The entire world is on fire, and everyone is slogging through it. I spend so much of ny day obsessing on my 401(k), war, hatred of both political parties, and the society's race to the bottom. After chasing promotions and overworking, I see that many times it doesn't matter. Sometimes it's popularity, personality, or nepotism. Sometimes the small bump in salary isn't even worth it. And many times, after all of that, you receive a Teams call that you've been downsized by someone that knows nothing of your work or work ethic (just looking at a spreadsheet). So, why keep striving? Feels like running fast to a brick wall after a while.
I recommend traveling overseas to another like Southeast Asia (SEA) to get a fresh perspective on things. One thing I realized is that America is still #1 (albeit on a downward trajectory) and all our problems are self-inflicted. I found it gave me more empathy and allowed me to mentally reset.
@@albertedwards1612 I've traveled to ~40 countries, including 9 Asian countries. I've lived in W Africa. I can be thankful while still understanding that this country feels like it's in decline. I can still worry about the $ I've sacrificed to put aside for retirement. The anxiety to be viable snd healthy in this system is real.
All your concerns come from the perspective of incompetent management. Working from home isn't for everyone but it will never work with managers who cannot effectively manage their teams without sitting behind them watching their activity.
I believe that great managers can make work-from-home sustainable. I do not believe that there are a lot of great managers, though. Work-from-home will cause a lot of damage..
Eli missed a valid point - it doesn't matter if working from office is 2 times better than working from home as long as you take into account the wage vs expenses. To commute or even move near an office it's got so expensive for the worker that many of them are starting thinking "why bother?"...why bother working for a shitty job, on a shitty wage for some shitty A holes when it's better moving to the countryside and start raising some chickens?
So basically according to you remote work is bad because of young generation of lonely people that have stupid ideas and that will get burned out because they are pathetic and cannot manage their work because they have nothing to do but work, becuase they dont have spouse or any other plans for that day or kids to pick up :D What can they do without office work! Long live office work!
If the board and CEO make more money than the rest of the company COMBINED and keep raising each other ? We have the highest CEO and Board pay in history-adjusted for inflation.
They already laid off all the employees left over from EMC, who had WFH written into their contracts. Including me. Then, they offered them their jobs back as a lower paid contractor with no benefits. Eff that company.
I disagree; jobs can be done with instructions. Instructions can be written, illustrated, and even put on videos and handover or knowledge transfer meetings. No need to have people in cages just because managers are insecure, especially when nowadays results are completely measurable.
If you need to be in the same room as your new employee to be effective, you shouldn't be a leader. That said, what you should be able to do is communicate well. Both the manager and the employee. When I interview, I look for communication ability over technical skills. Technical skills can be learned or looked up. Communication is a bit more nuanced and way more important. Also, talk about burnout. I have a 1 hour commute to my office both ways. I only live 8 miles away, but it's a huge city. I don't get burnout doing my work, I get burnout dealing with commuting. And so do many others. It's why if work starts at 9 (pre covid), that really meant work started at ..... well as long as you are in before 10. Then, you notice sometime around 4, people are starting to pack up because they are either looking for the next train out or trying to beat the subway rush or car rush.
If you're absolutely forced to return to office, it's imperative to keep interviewing as if you where unemployed. I guess if you want a major part of your workforce to think of you as a placeholder until something remote comes along, then have at it. I live in a small town with $800 per month rent. If I had to relocate for a job, I would stay in a rent-by-the-week whatever and keep my lease on the small town housing. RTO means slummin' .
My company decided to fragment its employees over a number of locations. Canada, US, India, etc. Whether from home or in the office, you are on a headset most of the day. Often on a teams meeting with the person sitting right next to you (How distracting and awful). Still they want people back in the office.
It's legitimately worse to be in a zoom meeting with other people next to you in the same meeting. My favorite is the obligatory 15 minute musical microphone 'who is causing the echo' game every single time from multiple speakers and multiple microphones from multiple laptops.
I am sorry Eli, the Job Market in the 2000s is not similar to 2024 now there is no corporate Loyalty, you can get fired even working your ass off, at the end you are just a number. so if they put a promotion on your desk your probabilities that you will get a bigger asshole boss just get bigger. I have started to run a business that can pay my bills even if the salary can not compare to a 9 -5 job. that will keep you stressed and kissing butts
Biggest reason I hate going into the office is traffic. 1hr and 10-15mins just to cover 20 miles? Kill me now. I'm mentally shot by the time I get to the office. Want to live even closer to the company? Get ready to shell out $3k+ a month for a 600sq ft apartment.
WFH is necessary. being forced in the office 3+ days out of a week when I can do all of the work without talking to anyone? some of it i need to come in because of the complexity of a task or requirement but the vast majority of the time when I come into the office its just noisy and annoying.
The problem with forcing this on the employees is that the good ones have options, the lesser ones don't or don't have as many, and the better employees bail. I've seen that a few times.
Repeat after me. We lead people and manage things. LEAD PEOPLE, MANAGE THINGS. No one wants to be “managed”. Brand new employees (junior military) are smart but functionally stupid. They need to be lead and mentored, and as leaders we owe it to those functionally stupid individuals to show them how they should become good leaders, by managing resources necessary to get those young people to the place they need to be.
If you CAN do your job remotely, you SHOULD. Period. Any form of "training" or other garbage excuses can be regulated to meetings. We have a plethora of available contact mediums to offer in-house consultations these days. Heck, if some of the staff get along they can even meet up themselves and help each other out. The main reason for the moronic office space "culture" is so the companies receive the ROI on the PPE they hired out for operations (and put down as expenses on the balance sheet) and so that middle management (and above) can seem like they are necessary outside of actual work (read: project management). It's all a farce. People should never give in. This is made exponentially harder with the millions of m 1 gr 4 n ts though, who are willing to be s l 4 v 3 drones.
Promotion = more work. Even if it comes with more money, many people would be happier with less work and responsibilities but less money. rather than more work work and responsibilities but more money.
Employers “be [sic]” like, “We will only pay you as much as we can replace you for. Senior or higher paid employees come to the office so that you can assist us in making you more replaceable by sharing your skills with people that are less skilled and lower paid. Be a mentor; document everything that you know and give us the documentation. And if you have any million dollar ideas give those to us too. Oh, and sign a non-compete so once we screw you, you can’t get a job at a competitor. Oh, and though we keep price gouging and making record profits, your raises and bonuses will be less than inflation - if you are lucky - and this doesn’t include staggering lower than the compounding increased annual cost of benefits. Have I covered everything? Happy? 😂”
As an IT contractor/consultant, I can say that I’m working between two and three peoples’ worth of work each week. Largely because so few people want to do this work anymore.. The kicker is that I’m getting those two to three peoples’ worth of wages too. :)
Working in a office is a foreign concept for me. I have not worked in a office for the last 15 years. to be honest though my life work balance was far better when I was in a office. In a office situation 5pm I am out of the door and not working until the next day.
Oh no, I will inconvenience my manager if I join in with those who say no. As opposed to the financial devastation they are threatening. What great agency I have.
Guys, don’t be naive. They will enforce a return to work policy in the future or you will be laid off…and it’s legal. Working from home isn’t profitable to companies because productivity has plummeted. The vast majority of employees are being lazy, working side hustles or just not working at all on company time.
that's how it starts. Then they gradually taper off the salary bump until work from office is normalized again, and they don't pay extra. The boiling frog in pot approach.
Or just pay remote workers $50k less, or ship the jobs overseas to India. The difference now is that India plays an important strategic role in American geopolitics and our American politicians will not hesitate to sell out our jobs to the lowest bidder. On top of that, India has only greatly developed over the past quarter of a century.
My problem with full-time remote is you have to compete with talent all across the globe, you are competing with talent that is far more competitive on top of the low pay that Eastern Europeans and Indians are willing to put up with. The only way to maximize this is to work it both ways, work overseas (e.g. Southeast Asia, etc.) and work remote. It is only this way that you can potentially squeeze it out, however there is stigma attached to this. Ultimately, RTO ultimately will win otherwise all of our jobs will be effectively be shipped to India.
@nicholasbroadhurst9096 Have y'all *seen* the quality of Indian work?? The majority of them lie and cheat on exams, it's a well-known problem. But ignored by Corp execs ... quality and excellence in output doesn't matter because "cheap labor" is all they're mandated to care about. Oh, and DIE also, of course. I call these execs "traitors" to America...but reality is they have zero allegiance to *any* country, their only allegiance is to their god named "money"
The no promotion thing is interesting. I have seen very few promotions over the last decade in tech, people just go work somewhere else and gain a promotion through hiring. We are months away from this becoming a non topic again as intrest rates get cut and hiring begins.
Been Working Remotely before even Covid. almost 7/8 years now The Amount of work you get when promoted and the amount they paid you for new work. is not even worth extra time you get from not commute, or mentaly sunk in quaqmire of office politics You can even get some Freelancing on side. for extra cash to made the diffrence but I do understand that new hire, or social people like being around people me... not so much~
I'm doing what I can to WFH and that would be almost a 47% increase in utility from my wage and its vastly more tax efficient. Even if I cannot be promoted i can train and improve my career by changing employers and its easy to do. "In the end we will have more wfh" yeah thats the bottom line.
I got to help renovate the power distribution at a facility Dell bought. There was a transformer in there from the 19060's that split open and leaked oil dust all over the closet. The entire crew got sick for a week. I heard they hired some 'cheap labor' to clean it while we were all getting checked out. PCB's again.
I WFH. for me there is no office to return as they got rid of the building. lol . what sucks for the company worked for is they signed a 5 year least back in 2019 so they kinda had ot pay for that office even though no o ne was really using it.
you know, nothing stops junior stuff communicating with senior staff through slack and get all the knowledge they need , be to to the point and also record it for future use .. just saying
that's bullshit, a text message or video call will never be as effective as face-to-face instruction, unless you have the kind of job that should really be automated.
There is this thing in China called "lying flat, let it rot" the thing is it's not just in China ! a lot of people can't even get a place to live ! people will do the minimum they have to, and not give it all because it's pointless! like in South Korea young people are turning shipping containers in to home and most of them have full time jobs !
You raise an interesting point, in South Korea, young professionals are turning to blue collar jobs. Even with the social shaming from the older generation, these young professionals are still making bank but even moreso they find it fulfilling.
@@albertedwards1612 The older generations are the problem the clowns F everything up for everyone and most business owners are these old clowns and they still live in their times ! that is why they love to say "back in my days" because they just don't get that people don't get paid like they did "back in their days" a person could flip burgers for a year could save up money to buy a brand new GT500 mustang (cost under $4,000) a GT500 mustang today will cost over $90,000 (for a used one) and price of a house is worst these people are like those parents that get mad at their children because they did not "pause" the online game and the worst part is that most of them are politicians, and all the old F heads will keep voting for them because they are the same generation or the one before or after!
@@memorf yes and no, people will find a job that pay them enough money and do a side hustle ! old people are mad that the young do not want to be zombies for a company !
@@memorf Its true in most east asian and south asian countries , People with degree dont do blue collar works including plumbing. A mechanic's job in car service center is considered blue collar and low status job in both south and east asian countries. But in reality most independent plumbers, electricians and construction worker earned more than typical white collar employee but no one give respect to them
Started in a call center. Got Bs,Ms in engineering. 31 years later I sit in a hotel cube just like when I was making $5/hr. Would need 3 levels higher to have an office with door now.
It's why all should be forced online under our roof in one domain to sub contact out private individuals' skills and trade . You want to hire or get hired ceo to janitor, then compute it Public sector library is eaten so its better to mature boses and labor at once. Office occupation to hands-on small part manufacturing it's been ready 20 years ago yet publishers and unions haven't wanted to reach the ultimate fulfillment where no one can screw one another. All merit dictates bids. Do it or you don't and they get someone else. Sign up to meet the demand for 3 yrs and don't find yourself in court just like all capitalism
In my company, the response to the return to the office mandate was silent inertia: after a few weeks, there were less and less people in the office. Local management did not want to create conflicts just because of this (they have their normal job to do, after all), and did not want to report that issue either (bad for their career). The result is that everybody is silent and the executives probably think that everybody is at the office. 😂
So what's a magically intermediary environment that would transition noobs more easily into the workforce without this splendiforus place you call a "necessary office space"?
I'm an outlier. I have to take 2 medications that knock me out asleep without any warning. I also get distracted very easily. Commuting is a bitch. How about having somewhere *nearby* where I could go work with other people who are NOT working for the same company, but someone to just help people just keep their shit together? I would gladly pay a small amount with the other people just to have somebody come wake me up. "Hey, get up, walk around, have some coffee, etc. I just can't anything done on my own at home anywhere near as much as I need to. What do y'all think of having a "not your company" place to go? I also live alone and I would like some people to talk to during the day.
The major issue are those employees who moved during remote work thinking it was always going to be an option. It’s not simple to sell the house, uproot the family and move again only to just sit in an office and do what could be done from home. It’s backwards
completely agree, young/new employees need direction not sure about old Boss looking over the should but yes some structure is needed until they can prove themselves to be reliable and have good work output
Nonsense. A wife and kids doesn't inherently make your life better. Actually people tend to struggle even more but of course you conveniently don't mention that because you choose your words intentionally.
This is why senior workers should get paid more for doing the same job. They not only do the job but they train, put out fires, and manage the junior workers inevitably on some level.
Eli, you'd be surprised how even junior employees can easily adapt to remote work. For one, many already have experience playing multiplayer games, where they have to coordinate on a goal with total strangers. Also, you'd find in many offices, there's really very little face to face communication. Many employees even whilst seated next to each other, will prefer to talk via Slack or other chat tools, and will prefer meetings on Zoom rather than being ambushed for a last minute meeting in a meeting room..
I would never text somebody who works on my floor, let alone the person in the next cube. What you're describing is a pretty bad company culture issue and really isn't an argument in favor of WFH.
0:52 Disagree, it’s actually not hard to get employees to do there job if what your asking them to do makes sense lol. At the end of the day, the boss DOES have more power in the workforce. You fire me and now my livelihood is gone instantly. I leave voluntarily, and all you have to do is just find my replacement, Which shouldn’t be hard if you are good company. The small amount of times where workers have the leverage over their boss is completely justified. When these layoffs happen nobody gave a shit about the employees affected by it, so why should employees care about the feelings of their shitty CEO?
2:05 lol once again, HIGHLY disagree. Working from home shouldn’t be a fucking privilege for senior people. If a new person was competent enough to get the job, then I think they are competent enough to know how to do work from home. I hate boses with this mentality lol. It’s the same thing with the minimum wage. “Oh but are you WORTH a living wage?” Do y’all hear yourselves talk sometimes???? Someone has to earn the right to be able to afford groceries and rent???? How fucking insane. Let’s be real, working from home isn’t this vacation life that you bosses make it seem like it is. People are still doing your work and making your company money!
2:58 I’m going to leave this last comment and I’m done. Just because you are a boss doesn’t mean you are immune from having dumb ideas yourself. Y’all’s ego prevent you from listing to your employees which is probably the reason they would spit in your coffee when you’re not looking. Not saying they should but just putting it out there. So actually I change my mind, bring everyone back to the office lol. You clearly need the snot and coffee special.😂
I watch people posting that they've applied for 1000 jobs and nothing happens. Well, we know that anyone who insists on working from home can be replaced instantly.
I honestly think they are covertly trying to force people to quit so they won't have to lay them off and deal with the legal/pr headaches and any requirements for severance that may exist.
Only problem is the best ones leave first.
and they are not quitting
@@deth3021 Exactly.
It's not "forcing people to quit," it's encouraging the employees who can do better somewhere else to get off their ass and leave.
It's always a few types who will TRY to keep a job: people who are closing in on whatever they would get if vested/retiring (these basically don't exist anymore, now that companies don't do retirement pensions any more, they do 401-k, and 401-k is portable); people who just love the challenges and opportunities of their job (those people _do_ really exist, they're just rare); people who are too useless, fearful, dependent, and/or other personal issues.
Almost anyone is better off _somewhere_ else, instead of where they are. It's not because all people suck; it's because few people find the best possible fit in the first place, and people grow and change over time. Inertia is a thing, savings are rare and attractive to keep, and mortgage and rent and a tremendous need to eat once in a while make having a steady income very desirable!
You know who will come in 5 days? Chinese and Indians on a visa.
Because theres no promotion behind door number 1
The only thing corporations are capable of doing is layoffs, not promotions
Working from the office has two, and only two, primary benefits: 1) training new employees, and 2) having a cheerful face to greet customers. Obviously there is value in both of those endeavors. However, that's not all that goes on, and hardly anything else in an office-type, white-collar job actually needs an actual office to get done. There will always be exceptions to these general rules. Nobody is arguing with that. But the typical office functionary who actually knows what the hell he's doing stands to gain nothing, ipso facto, by performing his duties in an office. It's only convenient for managers to have him do so, hence the push to return to the office. Incrementalism is the rule of the day in the name of returning employees to the office, and efforts to do so are steadily ratcheting up, as evidenced by the piece discussed here. I don't see this trend reversing unless some other existential threat were to be visited upon us.
Oh so that’s why I’m burned out
FACTS!!!😂😂😂 14:43
Waste more time in the office dealing with dealing with people asking me to do their job for them. And office politics/gossiping is something that is greatly reduced when working from home.
Freedom, its something the people at the top don't want you to have.
You and Eli missed sexual harassment allegations being avoided while working from home.
Dell: We are committed to "net zero", because we at Dell believe in fantasy solutions to imaginary problems!
Also Dell: Screw your "carbon footprint"! Commute to the office every day or we will RUIN you!
Threatening to not promote people who never expect or want to be promoted isn't a threat. For most workers anymore, the promotion path is right down the hall marked EXIT.
Never check work email on off-hours.
Threatened with no raises or promotions by a company that doesn't promote or provided raises is not the threat you might think it is. The only way of getting promoted or increasing compensation in tech is job hopping. There is no upward mobility within corporate or product. If you can deliver there is no reason to go into the office other than to train people to replace you.
100% correct.
Holy micromanagement
Unless the commute is like 20 minutes or less or the company pays you so damn well going to office daily is not a good proposition. Employees don't have much loyalty to the companies, and why should they? Most companies have been busy shredding compensation, pensions, etc. If the company sees little value in you as an employee, then the employee will see the company as purely a paycheck. Nothing more. Spending money on expensive gas and hours a week in traffic going to the office to put on a show for the boss? Nah.
Every business tends to have their offices either in business districts or mid town/center, unless they up the salaries twice or three times nobody can afford to live nowhere near those. So on one side is come to office because you are ruining the price of business real estate on other salaries what sallaries it's tough times and the monthly quoter reports are 'record high profits' your employees are not flipping burgers or coal miners, you hired them because they are smart and problem solvers and now your are treating them as they work in flipping McDonald's
The company I worked for wanted to bring back in the software developers. None of us came back. They relented and said software developers didn't need to come back.
I don't want to live in hell (Phoenix, AZ) but I want to stay in AZ to be close to family. So, I only work remote. I prefer working in person 2 or 3 days a week, but I prefer to live in the mountains more.
After I was laid off it took me 7 months to find a new job. I was getting a little nervous, but living in a more rural community is much better than living in the city.
I couldn’t agree more! I had to work in a large city for about 10 years when I was younger. Once I finally made it out, I swore I’d never live in a populated urban area again. And I’ve been so much happier since.
oh you're in arizona? you're fucked either way
ÕMĞ it took him 15 Minutts to get to the Poïňt
😰😩😟😰😩😩😩😧😧😦😦😦😧😧😦😦😧😳😶😶😶😵😳
Personal policy of mine is to not do a single scrap of work in the office any time I'm in there. Laptop does not open, emails don't get checked, I spend 100% of the day in people's cubicles collaborating about football, video games, what we're doing for lunch, etc. It's pretty great.
I left Dell 2 months back after completing 8 years with them. Total waste of my life towards the last 3 years. One of the worst managed firms ever.
This is their pathetic strategy to compel people to quit rather than they laying off employees.
Same here. I agree with you as the atmosphere was very chaotic.
16:49 You assume people care about the company. Why should they? Companies have spent the last few decades showing they don’t care about their people.
Exactly ☝️
Work is a two way contract. Nothing more.
It costs money and time to commute. Why would anyone accept a de facto paycut for a less desirable environment?
Companies should instituted a pay cut for full-time remote workers. The problem with that approach is that it will only exacerbate the passive-aggressive and "quiet quitting." Ultimately, this is contributing to inflation to some degree because money has to represent something and if we are all getting paid to sit on our assess doing nothing, watching Netflix, then I believe this is why inflation continues to be stubborn problem in the United States.
@@albertedwards1612Commuting creates nonproductive inflation aka wasted resources. Extra money wasted on gas, insurance and vehicle+road maintenance goes into the economy.
The problem is that CEOs have small brains and get a little hit of dopamine when they see the name of "their company" on a big building. The people can do the same work remotely and with less time spent sitting around the coffee machine.
Young people spend their whole lives online, and never go outside. Preserving archaic 1970s offices for them seems odd.
When commuting to work alone takes 2 hours and 2 hours back home🏡. 4 hours a day i can cook healthy meal, 1 hr gym exercise etc. 1 hous studing a language and 1 hor extra sleep or hobby. At least in CDMX where down town houses are to expensive for average Méxican i dont know elsewhere but may be the same
I think you captured the general issue...the sense of malaise. The entire world is on fire, and everyone is slogging through it. I spend so much of ny day obsessing on my 401(k), war, hatred of both political parties, and the society's race to the bottom.
After chasing promotions and overworking, I see that many times it doesn't matter. Sometimes it's popularity, personality, or nepotism. Sometimes the small bump in salary isn't even worth it. And many times, after all of that, you receive a Teams call that you've been downsized by someone that knows nothing of your work or work ethic (just looking at a spreadsheet). So, why keep striving? Feels like running fast to a brick wall after a while.
I recommend traveling overseas to another like Southeast Asia (SEA) to get a fresh perspective on things. One thing I realized is that America is still #1 (albeit on a downward trajectory) and all our problems are self-inflicted. I found it gave me more empathy and allowed me to mentally reset.
@@albertedwards1612 I've traveled to ~40 countries, including 9 Asian countries. I've lived in W Africa. I can be thankful while still understanding that this country feels like it's in decline. I can still worry about the $ I've sacrificed to put aside for retirement. The anxiety to be viable snd healthy in this system is real.
All your concerns come from the perspective of incompetent management. Working from home isn't for everyone but it will never work with managers who cannot effectively manage their teams without sitting behind them watching their activity.
I believe that great managers can make work-from-home sustainable. I do not believe that there are a lot of great managers, though. Work-from-home will cause a lot of damage..
Eli missed a valid point - it doesn't matter if working from office is 2 times better than working from home as long as you take into account the wage vs expenses. To commute or even move near an office it's got so expensive for the worker that many of them are starting thinking "why bother?"...why bother working for a shitty job, on a shitty wage for some shitty A holes when it's better moving to the countryside and start raising some chickens?
So basically according to you remote work is bad because of young generation of lonely people that have stupid ideas and that will get burned out because they are pathetic and cannot manage their work because they have nothing to do but work, becuase they dont have spouse or any other plans for that day or kids to pick up :D What can they do without office work! Long live office work!
If the board and CEO make more money than the rest of the company COMBINED and keep raising each other ? We have the highest CEO and Board pay in history-adjusted for inflation.
Well that was a gentle way for Dell to figure out who is going to make the list for the next round if layoffs
Amen usually why it happens
They already laid off all the employees left over from EMC, who had WFH written into their contracts. Including me. Then, they offered them their jobs back as a lower paid contractor with no benefits. Eff that company.
They do that so that you can't go to unemployment because you turned down the offer @@LightTribe88
@@LightTribe88classic Dell move. I disdain that company’s culture, fucking vulture.
I disagree; jobs can be done with instructions.
Instructions can be written, illustrated, and even put on videos and handover or knowledge transfer meetings.
No need to have people in cages just because managers are insecure, especially when nowadays results are completely measurable.
If you need to be in the same room as your new employee to be effective, you shouldn't be a leader. That said, what you should be able to do is communicate well. Both the manager and the employee. When I interview, I look for communication ability over technical skills. Technical skills can be learned or looked up. Communication is a bit more nuanced and way more important.
Also, talk about burnout. I have a 1 hour commute to my office both ways. I only live 8 miles away, but it's a huge city. I don't get burnout doing my work, I get burnout dealing with commuting. And so do many others. It's why if work starts at 9 (pre covid), that really meant work started at ..... well as long as you are in before 10. Then, you notice sometime around 4, people are starting to pack up because they are either looking for the next train out or trying to beat the subway rush or car rush.
If you're absolutely forced to return to office, it's imperative to keep interviewing as if you where unemployed. I guess if you want a major part of your workforce to think of you as a placeholder until something remote comes along, then have at it. I live in a small town with $800 per month rent. If I had to relocate for a job, I would stay in a rent-by-the-week whatever and keep my lease on the small town housing. RTO means slummin' .
I didn't return to the office when requested, stayed working from home then retired.
My company decided to fragment its employees over a number of locations. Canada, US, India, etc. Whether from home or in the office, you are on a headset most of the day. Often on a teams meeting with the person sitting right next to you (How distracting and awful). Still they want people back in the office.
It's legitimately worse to be in a zoom meeting with other people next to you in the same meeting. My favorite is the obligatory 15 minute musical microphone 'who is causing the echo' game every single time from multiple speakers and multiple microphones from multiple laptops.
This...didn't age well. Layoffs of over 10K announced yesterday. Who do you think looked like a target??
I am sorry Eli, the Job Market in the 2000s is not similar to 2024 now there is no corporate Loyalty, you can get fired even working your ass off, at the end you are just a number. so if they put a promotion on your desk your probabilities that you will get a bigger asshole boss just get bigger. I have started to run a business that can pay my bills even if the salary can not compare to a 9 -5 job. that will keep you stressed and kissing butts
This dude is such a shill for the man, always picking the imperial side, we're METRIC PAL WFH
Biggest reason I hate going into the office is traffic. 1hr and 10-15mins just to cover 20 miles? Kill me now. I'm mentally shot by the time I get to the office. Want to live even closer to the company? Get ready to shell out $3k+ a month for a 600sq ft apartment.
WFH is necessary. being forced in the office 3+ days out of a week when I can do all of the work without talking to anyone? some of it i need to come in because of the complexity of a task or requirement but the vast majority of the time when I come into the office its just noisy and annoying.
Eli the RTO Guy
I'll bet that the more productive ones, those that had more options are the ones who left.
The problem with forcing this on the employees is that the good ones have options, the lesser ones don't or don't have as many, and the better employees bail. I've seen that a few times.
Repeat after me. We lead people and manage things. LEAD PEOPLE, MANAGE THINGS. No one wants to be “managed”. Brand new employees (junior military) are smart but functionally stupid. They need to be lead and mentored, and as leaders we owe it to those functionally stupid individuals to show them how they should become good leaders, by managing resources necessary to get those young people to the place they need to be.
If you CAN do your job remotely, you SHOULD. Period.
Any form of "training" or other garbage excuses can be regulated to meetings. We have a plethora of available contact mediums to offer in-house consultations these days. Heck, if some of the staff get along they can even meet up themselves and help each other out.
The main reason for the moronic office space "culture" is so the companies receive the ROI on the PPE they hired out for operations (and put down as expenses on the balance sheet) and so that middle management (and above) can seem like they are necessary outside of actual work (read: project management).
It's all a farce. People should never give in. This is made exponentially harder with the millions of m 1 gr 4 n ts though, who are willing to be s l 4 v 3 drones.
nah, I work for company that doesn't even have an office, we prefer to spend that cash on Kauai
Promotion = more work. Even if it comes with more money, many people would be happier with less work and responsibilities but less money. rather than more work work and responsibilities but more money.
The employer/employee relationship is 🐂💩
Employers “be [sic]” like, “We will only pay you as much as we can replace you for. Senior or higher paid employees come to the office so that you can assist us in making you more replaceable by sharing your skills with people that are less skilled and lower paid. Be a mentor; document everything that you know and give us the documentation. And if you have any million dollar ideas give those to us too. Oh, and sign a non-compete so once we screw you, you can’t get a job at a competitor. Oh, and though we keep price gouging and making record profits, your raises and bonuses will be less than inflation - if you are lucky - and this doesn’t include staggering lower than the compounding increased annual cost of benefits. Have I covered everything? Happy? 😂”
💯!!
As an IT contractor/consultant, I can say that I’m working between two and three peoples’ worth of work each week. Largely because so few people want to do this work anymore..
The kicker is that I’m getting those two to three peoples’ worth of wages too. :)
A cleaver way to down size without paying compensation. the timing is good when the economy is slowing and sales are in the down trend.
People in tech have been used to changing employers for promotions for decades. Very few people are expecting to get promoted in place.
Most will choose or else lol
My company has instituted the no promotion for remote workers.
Every time someone leaves, the job is reposted in office
You mean I'm actually supposed to read the emails????😂 I usually just delete them.
Working in a office is a foreign concept for me. I have not worked in a office for the last 15 years. to be honest though my life work balance was far better when I was in a office. In a office situation 5pm I am out of the door and not working until the next day.
These bosses think they have the power but........ that UNO card works so well. WFH is so awesome for introverts like me.
Oh no, I will inconvenience my manager if I join in with those who say no. As opposed to the financial devastation they are threatening.
What great agency I have.
I need a much smarter mouse giggler! My current one is lazy!
I have been working from home for 13 years in tech, for the same company. It was a unicorn job at the time. This whole debate has been….interesting.
Guys, don’t be naive. They will enforce a return to work policy in the future or you will be laid off…and it’s legal. Working from home isn’t profitable to companies because productivity has plummeted. The vast majority of employees are being lazy, working side hustles or just not working at all on company time.
U got it exactly right. They just canned over 10K ppl. These influencers teaching people to have a stank attitude are putting them at a major risk.
Pay senior staff $100k more than remote senior staff to go into the office.
I’d be down.
that's how it starts. Then they gradually taper off the salary bump until work from office is normalized again, and they don't pay extra. The boiling frog in pot approach.
Or just pay remote workers $50k less, or ship the jobs overseas to India. The difference now is that India plays an important strategic role in American geopolitics and our American politicians will not hesitate to sell out our jobs to the lowest bidder. On top of that, India has only greatly developed over the past quarter of a century.
I too am pro pay transparency.
@@albertedwards1612 If they're going to offshore jobs, them the idea of office presence providing job security is pure fiction.
I am work from home for life. Don't care who I work for.
My problem with full-time remote is you have to compete with talent all across the globe, you are competing with talent that is far more competitive on top of the low pay that Eastern Europeans and Indians are willing to put up with. The only way to maximize this is to work it both ways, work overseas (e.g. Southeast Asia, etc.) and work remote. It is only this way that you can potentially squeeze it out, however there is stigma attached to this. Ultimately, RTO ultimately will win otherwise all of our jobs will be effectively be shipped to India.
Idk, feel like they will ship them overseas regardless if people RTO or not if it proves to be cheaper and similar quality of work…
@nicholasbroadhurst9096 Have y'all *seen* the quality of Indian work?? The majority of them lie and cheat on exams, it's a well-known problem. But ignored by Corp execs ... quality and excellence in output doesn't matter because "cheap labor" is all they're mandated to care about. Oh, and DIE also, of course. I call these execs "traitors" to America...but reality is they have zero allegiance to *any* country, their only allegiance is to their god named "money"
How dare you expect me to go to work.
The Universe is the first Remote Supervisor
"Don't make me come down there!"
Earthquakes
Volcanos
Tornados
Meteor Storms
-----
uh......thanks for that insight
The no promotion thing is interesting. I have seen very few promotions over the last decade in tech, people just go work somewhere else and gain a promotion through hiring. We are months away from this becoming a non topic again as intrest rates get cut and hiring begins.
Not how it works bud
Been Working Remotely before even Covid. almost 7/8 years now
The Amount of work you get when promoted and the amount they paid you for new work. is not even worth extra time you get from not commute, or mentaly sunk in quaqmire of office politics
You can even get some Freelancing on side. for extra cash to made the diffrence
but I do understand that new hire, or social people like being around people
me... not so much~
I'm doing what I can to WFH and that would be almost a 47% increase in utility from my wage and its vastly more tax efficient. Even if I cannot be promoted i can train and improve my career by changing employers and its easy to do.
"In the end we will have more wfh" yeah thats the bottom line.
I got to help renovate the power distribution at a facility Dell bought. There was a transformer in there from the 19060's that split open and leaked oil dust all over the closet. The entire crew got sick for a week. I heard they hired some 'cheap labor' to clean it while we were all getting checked out. PCB's again.
This video was ALL over the place. Just a bunch of non-cohesive ramblings...🥴
I WFH. for me there is no office to return as they got rid of the building. lol . what sucks for the company worked for is they signed a 5 year least back in 2019 so they kinda had ot pay for that office even though no o ne was really using it.
I don't like working from home. I need to physically leave the office for my mind to shift to non work mode.
I have never liked the office. Hate small chatter, gossip, spying, and cubicle. I also hate the commute. I only do it for salary.
The point is to have a choice. You go to the office when you feel like. You do the job from home or office. Place should not matter.
you know, nothing stops junior stuff communicating with senior staff through slack and get all the knowledge they need , be to to the point and also record it for future use .. just saying
that's bullshit, a text message or video call will never be as effective as face-to-face instruction, unless you have the kind of job that should really be automated.
yes it can and it is much more effective unless you are the type of employee who likes joining meetings upon meetings just to "burn" time.
There is this thing in China called "lying flat, let it rot" the thing is it's not just in China !
a lot of people can't even get a place to live !
people will do the minimum they have to, and not give it all because it's pointless!
like in South Korea young people are turning shipping containers in to home and most of them have full time jobs !
You raise an interesting point, in South Korea, young professionals are turning to blue collar jobs. Even with the social shaming from the older generation, these young professionals are still making bank but even moreso they find it fulfilling.
They're being shamed for blue collar jobs?
@@albertedwards1612 The older generations are the problem the clowns F everything up for everyone and most business owners are these old clowns and they still live in their times !
that is why they love to say "back in my days" because they just don't get that people don't get paid like they did
"back in their days" a person could flip burgers for a year could save up money to buy a brand new GT500 mustang (cost under $4,000) a GT500 mustang today will cost over $90,000 (for a used one) and price of a house is worst
these people are like those parents that get mad at their children because they did not "pause" the online game
and the worst part is that most of them are politicians, and all the old F heads will keep voting for them because they are the same generation or the one before or after!
@@memorf yes and no, people will find a job that pay them enough money and do a side hustle !
old people are mad that the young do not want to be zombies for a company !
@@memorf Its true in most east asian and south asian countries , People with degree dont do blue collar works including plumbing. A mechanic's job in car service center is considered blue collar and low status job in both south and east asian countries. But in reality most independent plumbers, electricians and construction worker earned more than typical white collar employee but no one give respect to them
Started in a call center. Got Bs,Ms in engineering. 31 years later I sit in a hotel cube just like when I was making $5/hr. Would need 3 levels higher to have an office with door now.
It's why all should be forced online under our roof in one domain to sub contact out private individuals' skills and trade .
You want to hire or get hired ceo to janitor, then compute it
Public sector library is eaten so its better to mature boses and labor at once.
Office occupation to hands-on small part manufacturing it's been ready 20 years ago yet publishers and unions haven't wanted to reach the ultimate fulfillment where no one can screw one another.
All merit dictates bids. Do it or you don't and they get someone else. Sign up to meet the demand for 3 yrs and don't find yourself in court just like all capitalism
Then Dell fires 20,000 people. 😂 Looks. Like employees have no power.
Next time your boss tells you to jump. Don't act tough. Just ask... How high? 😅
In my company, the response to the return to the office mandate was silent inertia: after a few weeks, there were less and less people in the office. Local management did not want to create conflicts just because of this (they have their normal job to do, after all), and did not want to report that issue either (bad for their career).
The result is that everybody is silent and the executives probably think that everybody is at the office. 😂
The promotion carrot on a stick…like most care 😀
had it myself
So what's a magically intermediary environment that would transition noobs more easily into the workforce without this splendiforus place you call a "necessary office space"?
I'm an outlier. I have to take 2 medications that knock me out asleep without any warning. I also get distracted very easily. Commuting is a bitch. How about having somewhere *nearby* where I could go work with other people who are NOT working for the same company, but someone to just help people just keep their shit together? I would gladly pay a small amount with the other people just to have somebody come wake me up. "Hey, get up, walk around, have some coffee, etc. I just can't anything done on my own at home anywhere near as much as I need to.
What do y'all think of having a "not your company" place to go? I also live alone and I would like some people to talk to during the day.
it's called a "coworking space" and they exist in most cities.
The major issue are those employees who moved during remote work thinking it was always going to be an option. It’s not simple to sell the house, uproot the family and move again only to just sit in an office and do what could be done from home. It’s backwards
completely agree, young/new employees need direction not sure about old Boss looking over the should but yes some structure is needed until they can prove themselves to be reliable and have good work output
Since housing has gone up, employers should pay more for in-office people. There are ways to check attendance via software.
I remember them blocking vpns. I love the invention of ssl vpns.
Eli talking about pathetic losers spending too much time online as I watch him at 10pm, after a day at the computer 😳
You should consider using an ad blocker to remove the distracting ads on the articles you are sharing on the TV.
"He's got employees. F* that." Classic.
I was lost at least half the video. But very interesting. I'm not a tech person. I work in a warehouse. lol My job can't be done remotely.
Nonsense. A wife and kids doesn't inherently make your life better. Actually people tend to struggle even more but of course you conveniently don't mention that because you choose your words intentionally.
This sounds like a you issue.
@@Nun195 no, it sounds like yours buddy.
@@bluecrockswhat?
@@Nun195 Enjoy having a family if that’s what you want but It doesn’t take away my original point.
bad divorce, huh?
16:54 If junior staff just being around me is valuable to the company, then pay me more.
Eli does not read these comments. He does not care about people who watch his videos. He does it for his own reasons.
This is why senior workers should get paid more for doing the same job. They not only do the job but they train, put out fires, and manage the junior workers inevitably on some level.
Eli, you'd be surprised how even junior employees can easily adapt to remote work. For one, many already have experience playing multiplayer games, where they have to coordinate on a goal with total strangers. Also, you'd find in many offices, there's really very little face to face communication. Many employees even whilst seated next to each other, will prefer to talk via Slack or other chat tools, and will prefer meetings on Zoom rather than being ambushed for a last minute meeting in a meeting room..
I would never text somebody who works on my floor, let alone the person in the next cube. What you're describing is a pretty bad company culture issue and really isn't an argument in favor of WFH.
I beg to differ! Matrix 2 was so NOT crappy.
What accent is this guy sporting? Is there software that can tell?
😅 I'm glad I'm not an employer....yet😂
WFH is great where it works. It doesn't work in every circumstance.
Oh that’s right Eli is a Gen X’er alright
11:15 Worker alienation.
Lol its a matter of "you cant fire us all"
0:52 Disagree, it’s actually not hard to get employees to do there job if what your asking them to do makes sense lol. At the end of the day, the boss DOES have more power in the workforce. You fire me and now my livelihood is gone instantly. I leave voluntarily, and all you have to do is just find my replacement, Which shouldn’t be hard if you are good company. The small amount of times where workers have the leverage over their boss is completely justified. When these layoffs happen nobody gave a shit about the employees affected by it, so why should employees care about the feelings of their shitty CEO?
2:05 lol once again, HIGHLY disagree. Working from home shouldn’t be a fucking privilege for senior people. If a new person was competent enough to get the job, then I think they are competent enough to know how to do work from home. I hate boses with this mentality lol. It’s the same thing with the minimum wage. “Oh but are you WORTH a living wage?” Do y’all hear yourselves talk sometimes???? Someone has to earn the right to be able to afford groceries and rent???? How fucking insane. Let’s be real, working from home isn’t this vacation life that you bosses make it seem like it is. People are still doing your work and making your company money!
2:58 I’m going to leave this last comment and I’m done. Just because you are a boss doesn’t mean you are immune from having dumb ideas yourself. Y’all’s ego prevent you from listing to your employees which is probably the reason they would spit in your coffee when you’re not looking. Not saying they should but just putting it out there. So actually I change my mind, bring everyone back to the office lol. You clearly need the snot and coffee special.😂
11:22 I'm astounded how global this issue is...
I watch people posting that they've applied for 1000 jobs and nothing happens. Well, we know that anyone who insists on working from home can be replaced instantly.
How you gonna keep ‘em down on the farm?🤣