I use symbolism, metaphors and analogies all the time while discussions. And OMG sometimes I can’t believe that people cannot see OBVIOUS connections. For me it’s jus a small jump between similarities and for them it’s like a chasm of differences.
Replying to an old comment now but, as someone who's navigated Jungian theory and expansive interpretations (CPT, Asura, Love Who), as a concluded INFJ with honed Ni-Ti cogitations, though still relatively young-ish in age, it has been really, really challenging to convey my most basic thoughts and ideas, let alone my more refined ones. I have had about one, or three if I'm being forgiving, one to three people who could catch up to my manner of connecting things. In my entire life. Before I was aware that typology was a thing, that one certain person, I found, was also an INFJ. The second person was an INTJ. Third person was an undefined Ni dominant. Which just speaks to this mental-map-language thing. It is so nice to have a person catch up with you, without you needing to delve into the unnecessary linguistic detailing. Without having your elaborate words misunderstood. It has made me socially isolate myself as I can't enjoy interactions anymore, as I'm not getting any intellectual fulfillment from it. It had made me interpersonally picky as well as I realised I couldn't enjoy my time with any random person. With my 2 INxJ friends, our interactions are going really smooth, even as we don't really always agree, we can always quickly assimilate where we are going, so the information exchange is very short. And that is very satisfying. We reach the ultimatums, the conclusions, in synchrony, in few words. It makes me really think of the condition of dominant intuitives, particularly Pi. Existence can be really lonely this way. It can't even be described. I have to carve my path to happiness, in a way that excludes people from the picture. Such is fate, it seems. It has seemed for a while now.
I didn't realize until recently everyone couldn't see patterns everywhere and I always wondered why some people were so illogical about reoccurring events and predictions. MBTI is definitely helping me understand how sensors think. There's a lot we can learn from them too! Thanks for the interesting video 😊
Same here! But even when you do recognize this, it can still be so goddamn frustrating. I'm an ENFJ, and through my life experiences, my Ni is far more developed than the most. Some things are just so blatantly obvious to me that it pains me so much seeing non-Ni users just not get it, especially when they keep repeating the same mistake.
@@elainekan4209 I get so frustrated sometimes! My evil boss is definitely a sensor and she makes the most nonsensical long term decisions, and won't listen to anyone's concerns with them. I just let her crash and burn over and over again, I used to try to clue her in but she just sees me as an enemy to her glorious plans 😂
Glad you enjoyed the video! Yes it's comical to watch certain types wonder why everyone else can't do their main strengths as effortlessly and well as them. In fact, for that reason, it can take a long time for people to even realise their main ways of approaching the world are not only not shared by other people, but can sometimes be actively disliked and devalued! ~ Nathan
My INTJ partner hates movies, so whenever I want to watch something with him, I "sell" it first by explaining all the hidden patterns in it and how they relate to his idea of reality. He doesn't know I do this on purpose (and it may be a bit manipulating) but it allows us to enjoy a good film together.
How about this: I feel anxiety since I have feelings and I'm so emotional. Therefore, I feel like I exist but I'm not sure. (Note that _thinking_ is not part of this equation)
These damn patterns are the reason why the husband and I cannot watch true mainstream movies nowadays. They are too predictable and therefore boring. Also, using Ni as primary function is hard to describe, really. Sometimes you have an idea that is *so* abstract that you cannot find the right words to explain it. But you know that it must be right. It all makes sense in your head, but... you cannot simply project it into other people
Ni Dom here, i suggest watching shows from different mediums(anim, kdrama, cartoon, hollywood,bollywood, etc) and finding the best from those. Also that part where you can’t explain your idea? Fucking correct. I suggest learnin more than different languages with different origins so you can explain your thoughts with the different vocabs. So you can explain your thoughts in 3-4 different languages. Not that it would matter to an average person in an english speaking country.
True, you have to start watching different type of shows to get enjoyment. I searched many mediums and found shows/stories portrayed in new ways. Eventually those mediums will become more shallow as well but it’s a nice reset
You should put your ideas in writing - then things will either come to life or fall apart, well, at least, in that specific iteration. And who knows, it might even spawn new ideas about unrelated, but also interesting, stuff. Cheers!
Funny enough.. I only feel normal and not awkward among people WHEN I act as one of the crafted personas I have created for myself to avoid feeling the weird/alien/ black sheep in the room - INFJ
One thing about being an Ni dominant is not respecting (or forgetting) about the physical world of "here and now". You're always in your head observing things, questioning and wondering about what, how, and why they are, until you find yourself skipped the morning and noon meals (yep, that's me 😅). It's like you're in your head thinking. Or space exploration, but everything happens inside the head. Most of the time, I find myself just staring blankly at a wall after an Ni time of visual creativity. Idk. It's like that. Haha 😅
Thank you so much for always clarifying and emphasizing that personality typing models aren't the be-all end-all. So many people I explain MBTI to think personality models are trying to box in something that is so unbelievably nuanced, when in reality, it simply serves as a baseline. You da real goat bruh
Thank you very much! It's definitely important to be aware of and vocal about the limitations of anything you're advocating publicly in my view, people who talk without those caveats instantly arouse suspicion from me! ~ Nathan
So that's why I ponder over litertrature or anything that I read or watch even people through out their life , or the way they behave. I find myself naturally summarising different theories, concepts also I love making notes , taking out the very essence of everything can be helpful in puting that abstract theory or idea to a better way of using it. INFJ
because of Ni, I find lots of films having the same scenario, which makes me bored. I also use Ni in my academic life where I see the similar patterns between different concepts. This helps me understand the subject well. However sometimes I struggle to distinguish if I see the pattern for itself (Ne) or I have stored that pattern from my previous encounters unconsciously.
I’ve only recently discovered this channel so I’d like to add something to the discussion. I’ve read a lot of comments from Ni users which said that „mainstream films are too predictable”, or boring, or obvious. While I agree, there is a concept within film studies, or film psychology, which says that understanding of the patterns we’re all spotting doesn’t necesarilly come from one’s intelligence but is rather related to „genre’s scheme” (I’m not sure about the translation though!!!). For example, when you’re watching a horror film, you can predict a jumpscare moment because of the scene’s setting, writing, lightning, etc. - not because you’ve seen a jumpscare before or because you’re a film genius. Cinema (especially commercial cinema) likes to give it’s viewers’ the impression that they’re smart - and what distinguishes „the aware viewer” from „the unaware viewer” (at least in theory) is that the latter is convinced that when they’re spotting a pattern it’s due to their own intelligence, while the primal knows that the pattern has already existed and is being shown to him intentionally. It’s quite difficult for me to explain this concept the way I’d like to (especially since I’m speaking in my second language) but I thought that this film studies thesis actually reminds me of Ni a lot. It’s not just about „guessing” and „abstract thinking”, as many people like to describe it - it’s about being aware of the hidden meaning, the subtext, and due to knowing of it’s existance, it can also be discovered and analised. Thank you for your wonderful content Nathan
Absolutely love this comment! Totally agree with the points that you made in it too. If you haven't already ventured on there I'd recommend checking out the LoveWho Discord server, I think you'd get along with the people on there! ~ Nathan
Love the quote at 1:23. As someone who studied both Biology and Psychology, patterns are hugely important to propose theories, but collecting data is necessary for proof/truth. Except, of course, when you'd rather live with your dream or vague ideal, rather than have to face truth. Interesting that Frank James did a video in this vein this morning, too.
Your narrative-finder idea is absolutely how I see Ni btw. And, yes, I think we love simile and metaphor because both conventions tend to correlate experience with a universal concept.
@@christineherrmann205 I’d be curious to know the answer from the creators. How long do you think it takes? For content I post on another channel, it takes about 2 days to shoot and edit (w/ about 45 min of footage). There are also trends due to UA-camrs following what types of vids perform well. It becomes a feedback loop, but some are ahead of the curve.
Follow-up from "First!" (alright, I had to take advantage of actually still being awake at 6:30am ET!) I really appreciate your overview of Ni. This ability to look far into the future and plan ahead (even if they are vague predictions) has always been elusive to me. I'm going to go ahead and full-on embrace ISTP here; I think it is that disconnect, for me, is the point between seeing the underlying patterns and then projecting or planning much further forward (as an Ni dom might, for example). I often think of Ni as being the thing that helps me quickly identify the crux of an issue or problem that needs solving so I can quickly tackle it. I also see as being very helpful in guessing what the unseen side(s) of unfamiliar objects will look like, or get a random flash of insight into how something will work or turn out. I find that it is useful for planning much more short term/immediate logical steps to cut to the heart of what I'm trying to do. Se is grounding the Ni to what's relevant and happening here and now and constantly pinging off potential recognized patterns. At least, that is my interpretation of what's happening with Ti, Se, Ni, Fe lined up together. I look forward to more of these function videos!!
Every time I try to respond to this comment big parts of it are missing for some reason. I totally agree with your description here (and might even borrow it for a future video). ISTPs have the most balanced relationship with Ni since they don't over or under-use it and as you said, the Se grounds it ~ Nathan
Movie, The Matrix: a debate that reoccurs is Choice vs Causality, you have total freedom over your choices vs everything you do is an effect of a cause that is an effect of another cause and basically everything is a massive chain reaction, freedom vs no-freedom, being able to make your own future vs having one already decided for you (destiny). While these are two extreme stances, you can see this in everyday interactions. A choice you make, while having total freedom over it, also brings the effects of it (known and unknown) and you can end up being mostly in Causality. You can become trapped in the effects of your own choice for extended periods of time (bank loans is one good example, being highly in debt limits your freedom because you need to ensure a minimum income which means an impact on time and energy as well). Back to the movie (spoiler alert), Neo choosing to break free from the Matrix sets a series of events (effects to his choice) that ultimately leads to the machine city and eliminating Agent Smith at the cost of his own life (presumably, it is not clear if Neo dies). What if Neo took the blue pill instead? He'd still be in the Matrix, yet still trapped in the effects of his choice. Regardless of the choice he makes he is still bound by what follows, you can say it's destiny, but at the same time, by having that choice, you can say you can choose your destiny which sounds paradoxical. We are not free from choice, we are free to choose. If you don't choose, then you will eventually be left with only one option and in that case, the choice was made for you because you failed to do so in time. Even in that case, it was you who stripped away all your options by deciding not to choose. Even indecision is a decision. In this regard Causality is true, there is always a cause and effect, and at the same time Choice is true as well, we cannot choose for there not to be a cause, we ca decide which cause it is most of the time.
Very interesting comment. I'm wondering how the architect fits into this equation, is he equally bound by causality because he certainly implies that he might be above that kind of thing? At the end of the trilogy (trilogy so far... there is a new one being made), he is outplayed in some ways by the Oracle so possibly he is indeed equally within the game regardless of whether he created it to begin with ~ Nathan
I'd say he is, I've watched the scenes with the Architect, both the one where he is meeting Neo and where he is meeting the Oracle. His goal was to create a system in which the entire population was contained but failed to do so a number of times. Then a different program, The Oracle, provided a different solution by introducing choice (or apparent choice) which led to a much stable Matrix. The Architect is bound, on one side, by his choice to follow the solution provided by the Oracle which was more of a gamble on her part. At the end, he follows through with the peace where humanity is freed from the machines (at least the ones that want out of the Matrix). He could have destroyed Zion and restart humanity on his own, he didn't need Neo to pick the people who would do that. While he does give the sense of superiority I think he does this more as an intimidation or a covering tactic than actually being superior. What the Architect is well aware of is the presence of Causality and how it is intertwined with Choice. He knew that ultimately Neo will seek him out, but that also means the knew he had to be found which is an effect to his choice of adopting the Oracle's solution. I think the Architect is actually scared or uncomfortable with the chaos that Choice brings, because there might be a slight chance where humanity actually broke free from the machines and actually brought an end to the entire machine race. And all of that could have been an effect in a long series of events that initially started by allowing the possibility of 'The One' to exist in the first place. What he also points out is that allowing choice to exist, humanity could end itself (since Neo choses to save Trinity vs the human race) which would have a drastic impact on the machines.
This reminds me of the time I made the mistake of going to see Snow White by myself and left the theater with a complete book idea on how it's a metaphor for how emotions can carry us through a parasitically unhealthy system fueled by big sugar, and how life has a natural self correcting tendency of finding a way.
Yesss, I can’t help but see patterns everywhere, whether it’s with peoples behavior around me or if I’m really tucked into stories particularly mythology, one can see set archetypes used for gods and goddesses for thousands of years. You did a great job explaining, and as per usual, it was a fascinating subject to cover!
It makes a lot of sense that high Ni users are fans of archetypes since they are precisely the summarising and condensing type of process that they love ~ Nathan
I have NI as a second function and I always look for patterns like crazy. I love psychology and I see intriguing patterns between different mental and personality disorders.
As much as I understand what you said, I don't necessarily have these concepts and patters stuck in my head. In fact i feel i can barely put things into words when asked to do it. It just comes out naturally and i usually end up sounding smart but can barely remember what i said. - INFJ Thanks for your videos, they're thoroughly enjoyable, being concise and filled with amazing words. It often feels like listening to a short poem or story
This is what I got from Memento; Memories are unreliant, as they may easily become subjective to each person. Realities change and these realities are likely to influence past memories, so sometimes we morph those memories into something which could easily fit or make sense to our current reality.
The ending of that film was intense and something of a gut punch in some ways. Seeing someone essentially choose in that moment to lie to themselves in such a profound way left me shocked... but also worried at how easily we can all slip into doing that ~ Nathan
@@lovewho Yes! The ending was quite impactfull. I have only watched the movie once, because it's so strong (The same with Synechdoche New York. That movie is like nothing else).
Time, memory, perception... All malleable and illusive was my takeaway. A mirage, if you will. I'd had a feeling that the plot paralleled yet was still a little unnerved overall.
This is a great description. You know, I'm an Ne user and sometimes I struggle to see where Ni ends and Ne begins. I realise that this has a lot to do with the fact that they're just theoretical models so the boundaries between them aren't very clear, but I can see the distinctions between the introverted and extraverted versions of other functions more clearly. It helps me to think of Ni and Ne in terms of what they serve - Ni works alongside Se and serves the extraverted judging function, while Ne works alongside Si and serves the introverted judging function - and from there I can see why Ni tends to go deep (to connect the dots of a specific pattern - or build a narrative, as you brilliantly put it - that will help to solve a problem) while Ne goes wide (to identify connections between things that will confirm overarching truths/ values). But while your description of Ni seemed totally on point to me, the example you used at the end - identifying underlying themes in films and TV or making connections between various films and shows - is something that has always come naturally to me and I do it for a living. As far as I can tell, both Ni and Ne users would be good at that; I'm not sure why it's specifically an Ni activity. Why do you see this as unique to Ni?
> When you want to have a discussion about abstract things but everyone around you and in the internet is incapable of it because they cannot comprehend the theoretical and abstract world. So you keep feeling unfulfilled and that no one understands you, no one is making an attempt to understand you and you are expected to understand everyone, because you actually can and do so. This is my biggest ENFJ dilemma and this is why I consume so many memes.
Fellow ENFJ to add: When you explain these ideas or give an analogy (especially in the context of people's behaviour/situations) and you are told "that would never happen" "why you making stuff up" etc and you're just sat there like but I can see it happening...even unlikely events shouldn't be dismissed as it is still in the realm of possibility. Plus it's fun to explore the abstract. Me and my very close INFJ friend have the best abstract discussions. I love it.
Clever boy: Getting Engagement in the comments by asking us Ni users to do what we do best....that’s the theme I’ve noticed: Your cleverness in engaging Ni users 😉
There's an anime called Code Geass that I really like solely because of the evolution of the main character Lelouch. (Obligatory spoilers warning) In the anime he starts off a trollish student body president who lives the double life of a Revolutionary called Zero. Needless to say fighting a corrupt government turns into a messy situation and he is constantly backstabbing and lying to people in the purpose of creating a world without corruption for his sister Nunally who he envisions as innocent. He does this time and time again because he refuses to yield his ideal world for her and is in constant conflict over it among other things. Near the end of the anime however Nunally finds out about his second identity and pretty much criticizes her brother, calling him a monster which (for reasons too long to explain) he agree's with. (Although hearing it from the mouth of his sister shocks him a bit. ). Basically with all that context out of the way I would say the biggest message of the story was that desiring grand Ideals are self defeating. In trying to defeat the awful government he became just like them, in hopes to create a world to live with the sister he loves she grew to despise him. The only people around him who remotely got happy endings were the ones who could cut their losses and remain honest. I know this explanation isn't profound but in order to express how brilliant it was I would have to type in a whole other few paragraphs and since this comment is already long enough ill end it here.
Even though lelouch didn't get the happy ending, he got the best ending by creating a world where nanali could live happily. He became the symbol of evil to unite the world so that evil wouldn't divide them. And that ending is one of the best and most satisfying ones which makes everything understandable. It's a goddamn masterpiece.
So an interesting film I watched on Netflix the other day was ‘Devil all the time’ . Which tbh I don’t know why I put myself threw the stress of watching psychological thrillers when I have to look away every 5 minutes . Anyway the main principal I took away from it was this: people experience generational trauma, it is up to oneself whether you continue the cycle or end it.
'Generational Trauma' is a seriously scary thought actually. It's funny that you mentioned the masochistic way we interact with horror films and psychological thrillers. I watched 'The Haunting of Hill House' a while back, on my phone, in bed, at night. Getting up to go to the bathroom was a seriously un-fun experience. Also I'd highly recommend that show, it's on Netflix! ~ Nathan
Honestly, this is one of the most clear definitions of Ni I've seen. All too often, these videos inevitably are mired in pointlessly vague jargon. So, thanks for keeping this clear and easy to understand without watering it down. 😊
Brilliant observations on Ni. I see this at work in my INFJ friend for sure. One thing I notice about Ni is that once they see the patterns and reach a conclusion they move in to confirmation bias where they start to fit the patterns they see in to the conclusions they have made. In contrast, as a savior Ne guy (ENFP) I am moved off my conclusions much easier as I gather (and gather and gather and gather) more information. Same with planning. Ni's are great at planning! Seeing the future clearly and working to make it a reality. Sometimes this can lead to shattered delusions if they miscalculate what a situation, or a person, really is (curses on you demon Se!). Meanwhile, Ne me has a difficult time planning (and especially executing) but is much better at making adjustments as I go, which is a blessing and a curse. Making it up as I go vs. fitting patterns into an already determined view of reality. I would love to see your thoughts in an Ni vs Ne comparison video!
That's 100% a risk with Ni, since there's such an abundance of data out there in the modern age there are endless incorrect patterns people can come up with ~ Nathan
So Ni is why High School English was so easy. I can gather all the disjointed metaphors, similes, etc in a novel and invent an overall meaning from that. Of course, the result was a verbal mess with a questionable conclusion, but for some reason my English teacher loved that type of thing.
You should do a short conversational video with CS Joseph. Twenty or thirty minutes. I just think it would be interesting. You guys could maybe talk about some somewhat unexpected topics (thoughts on MBTI in the broader culture; the direction of typology; the experience of minor internet celebrity, for the lack of a better word..). Just kind of laid back and conversational, not informational or fully charged in any way. Might be a way to share some fans too.
I think everyone with dominant or auxiliary Intuition love finding patterns. I think what distinguishes Ne and Ni is how and why they like finding those patterns. Is it just for the sake of finding the pattern, or is it because it´s helpful for the future.
I’ve never heard Ni described so accurately and concisely! But yes, learning, thinking, and speaking in concepts when most people don’t is probably the most prevalent challenge of being Ni dom. And forgetting that patterns are not so glaringly obvious to everyone
Great explanation Nathan! As an enfp, I'm not supposed to have Ni as one of my 4 main functions, but I do feel it working/lurking away there somewhere. I always thought those a-ha! moments were Ne +plus me just being a general smarty pants type of gal. Anywho, limited by using subtitles, as my German isn't quite up to snüf, I would like to comment on the TV series, Dark. There are so many themes: 1. Small events can have huge meaning if you pay attention (or everything is connected) 2. Science matters 3. Accept and trust yourself 4. Love is important, not just a diversion 5. Self sacrifice is not for the faint of heart 6. There is deep humanity in everyone. 7. Not everyone and everything can be rescued. I need to watch this series again. I've watched it twice....the third time may be the charm!
Love it! Ne can do exactly the same thing as Ni except it's more expansive and wants to seek more and more connections and patterns so it makes total sense ~ Nathan
Loved this! Quite spot on! My sister comes to me with a problem, another problem underpinned by the same principle (or lack thereof). I throw her a concept like a bone hoping she’ll take it and run with it, applying it to all of her problems that relate. She responds that she needs the concrete steps to fill in the gaps and that she doesn’t get the metaphors/concepts I’m throwing at her. 😆
Thank you Nathan, top quality content (as usual)! What you describe with books (and TV shows) could be pushed even further, to what makes a character or a plot entertaining. How do you catch your reader’s attention? How do you grab them by their emotions and pull them into your story? Ni topic, all the way. The beauty of this is that you can find multiple skeletons for multiple genres and still filter them down to pure concepts. And then... expand again to create your stories (Ne taking it from there). I love this journey along the intuitive perspective 😊
" 'For intuitives it's like the ideas are real and everything that exists is an example of an idea in practice.' I mean, that's a bit extreme, but you get the idea." my Ni-dom ass: "What do you mean 'extreme?' that's just fact." LOL
Junk by William S. Burroughs & Trainspotting by Irvine Welsh Drugs (addiction) as freedom. Tales of wanting,. Out of control. Out of mind. A brightly lit, dark alleyway. My favorite sort of dark and twisty. You're not the only one with a dungeon Nathan :p
I think you've nailed this better than anyone I've ever listened to before. According to your analysis, I'm most definitely an Ni user and I'll even use your ideas when explaining my mind's workings to other people. Thanks! 😁
INTJ here. I have studied dreams (my own and others') and what you describe is exactly what I do. Ignore the details at first. Find a basic theme for the dream, then evaluate the symbolism of the details as they relate to the theme.
This new series will be a wonderful new addition! I'm looking forward to learn about the next ones. The quotes are always a nice way to illustrate your points. I actually rewind the video and read them again to let it soak in! "Narrative finders'' this is such a beautiful talent. Beside appreciating a story for what it is, discussing the different narratives is such a fun thing to do.
Agreed, it might translate well into them being narrative creators as well. Finished watching the video you send me about objective vs subjective criticism, brilliant stuff! ~ Nathan
"getting the essence of things is the essence of introverted intuition", so accurate. In high school, teachers used to criticize me for this ability and I've never understood why.
Ha! Yes! I think in ideas, NOT words or pictures, which is why it takes a while for me to explain things. I am always searching for the right word or analogy or metaphor to accurately explain what I am thinking.
Am INFJ, I'm going to do your challenge lol. I would do Attack On Titan but because this show is so Ni heavy and the aiuhor already does just fine with clarifying the principles, I'm going to do Supernatural; just took one of the most commonly known shows I could think of. I learnt that a life that Dean and Sam lived can alienate you from living a normal life, and how unimportant the normal way of living seemed to become (getting a career etc). I also learnt about obsession; the obsession they had for the hunting life, saving people, saving each other, and that although they were named 'Team Free Will', so often in the show they weren't in control anymore. They became possessed by their own personal demons, similar to how someone may become possessed with some life goal which they refuse to rethink until it's too late. I also learnt more about the fan-writer-relationship and fan-actor-relationship, made some important observations about that, because half of the season was only written because the show had such passionate fans. But the story already was told, the writers/ actors didn't have much more to really say and one could see that. It's interesting how this was handled.
Glad you liked the video! If you’re deep down the rabbit hole of personality types then feel free to check out the LoveWho discord server as well if you haven’t already ~ Nathan
sarazanmai gave me an interesting concept that its our secrets that create relationships, when you trust someone with something of yours you would rather not be made public, thats when a relationship is created, and as for myself it made me realize that might be a problem since im either completly open about stuff or dont talk about them to even my closest friends, what hinders my ability to emotinally connect to others.
The Originals. Goes to extremes to protect loved one's for now but creates enemies in the process that would later hurt loved one's in the future. rinse and repeat.
Okay I'll try it. The Ultimate Gift- the message of the movie is that the most valuable gifts you can give someone are not material, but they are things like love and family and hard work and the chance to make a difference in someone's life. But it's so much better to watch the movie, and I get the concept (maybe because it's explained in the movie) but had a hard time putting it into words.
Yeah, that's a balance. When I studied danish language and literature I had a teacher in modern literary history who was a real Structuralist -he boiled everything down to one-liners and drew large maps where he would connect everything on the blackboard to a point where he would reduce one poem of our fines danish poets to "this poem is really about peace love and harmony" - totally collapsing the most beautiful poem.... 😊
Always see patterns since I am able to perceive things... It is so exasperating to see close friends are always unable to see them. Some 16 type personality tests identify me as ISTJ. Funny thing is, I don't like going out and sense things. Even without sensing things directly, I am always able to foresee the future events, and see clearly all the behaviour patterns of people without even knowing the people in person. Most probably what happens here is some test questions are not really discerning, or too leading towards some particular cognitive functions.
Tried your exercise. Error: insufficient Te. Please load more Te and try again. (The themes compiled fine, but ran into an error in outputting to the interface)
Alias Grace: Reality/truth is relative: We tell and retell reality/stories so much that they always loose some touch with the actual truth to a point where reality becomes fragmented and not shared. And "oh well, we'll have to live with that". Seriously, watch it.
@@lovewho You should do that! It's very clever. Magaret Atwood is a genius. Just watching some of her interviews makes my IQ rise with serveral points 😉
I really prefer when you give the usual youtuber credo (pls subscribe and hit the bell) at the end because then you’ve proven to me that I have a reason to subscribe because I’ve already watched this video and I know the quality of your content
Book - The Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman: the root of any conflict is poor communication and the inability or refusal to think critically & self-examine. The Guns of August covers the events leading up to WWI and the first month of the war. Tuchman includes many personal details of the heads of state and high-profile military leaders involved - quotes, excerpts from letters, etc. Their attitudes, motives, and (lack of) reasoning behind their actions could be applied to any petty dispute among teenagers, athletes/coaches/parents, or reality TV stars, etc. There is little to no difference in the "logic" behind the spat between a stubborn coach and obnoxious parent, who thinks their child is being "singled out" or "targeted," and the Kaiser starting a two-front war because he's convinced himself that England and France are out to get him. The consequences of each situation are obviously much different but they are radically the same.
I’ve been gathering that Ni is not so much focused on finding the narrative in events but rather fitting events into a narrative you’ve accepted to make sense of it, whereas Ne is more about discovering and accepting new narratives as they come with possibly no conclusion. It seems to me that Ni types lean toward being astute and succinct yet relatively closed-minded.
INTP here. Ni is one of my biggest weaknesses. my INFJ friend often calls me out for having no foresight when really i feel like there are too many possibilities and uncertainties about the future (Ti-Ne, mostly Ne though). so it feels presumptuous to predict what the future holds. also i'm a victim of my own "fortune-telling". i deal with depression and bouts of it include making rash and grim assumptions about the future, which repels me from using Ni even more because i find comfort in the uncertainty
My personality type tells me I'm Ne. But the "detective work", synthesis of ideas, condensing of abstract things, feeling like ideas are the more "real" way to tie the world together and make sense of it - I really resonated with. What are the major differences between Ne and Ni? (I'm ENFP)
MINDHUNTER: It is important to seek to understand the cores of the darker aspects of our world if we wish to effectively temper them instead of only condemning them and looking away. Honestly, in any context, it's important to seek out the cores of things to effectively understand/wield/control them. If you see what connects the world and the cores of things, you're better off. (Oh and I'm INTJ)
Very well said! I'm a big fan of that show and I also enjoyed the second season which had a very slow pace. Looking forward to season three whenever it comes out. Great comment! ~ Nathan
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni - Human bonds are the most powerful force in existence. It's an anime about the power of friendship. It's also a psychological horror with a huge amount of gore.
Love this! I’ve been trying to explain this to people who don’t understand me (pretty much everyone). You make my mind calm because normally I have to interpret what people say differently for it to apply which leads to so many rabbit trails. I feel totally alone in how I process life until I watch your videos. I don’t have to work so hard, I can just relax by listening and learning straightforward. Thank you for your videos!
This is really nice to hear! I was mildly concerned that this description would still be a bit too... abstract, but then again, high Ni users would be totally fine with that anyway. Really glad you're enjoying the videos! ~ Nathan
The Beginning After The End (Online Comic) The main character (Arthur) is reincarnated into a new world with the experiences and knowledge of his past life being a king. I see this story as being a thought experiment of some sort. I believe it is a fascinating story that digs quite deep into how responsibility affects a person and how it can force them to grow. The value of your life is dependent on how hard you work to carry your responsibilities to the end. I think this is the main crux of the story that kept me engaged. While Arthur has some unfair advantages being reborn, he also has to work hard to actualize the potential of said advantages. Thus, the accuracy and quality of his mission is entirely dependent on whether or not Arthur works hard enough to make it a reality. This is the foundation of leadership/kingship that can be easily overlooked in favor of the status and resources a king/leader posseses. It's not just the vision or the means to an end that gives someone power and authority, it is also their determination and drive that elevates them above the rest. At least in terms of a just authority based on competence and not arbitrary social standing or wealth. Hope this sufficed.
"For intuitives it´s like the ideas are real and everything that exists is an example of an idea in practice." - You: "That´s a bit extreme, but you get the idea." ........ errrrr.. So tell me, what needs to be there BEFORE you take action, and BEFORE anything physical is manifested? Hmm... maybe an idea? ;) Love, an INFJ, in an INTJ phase lol
It's way deeper than what you describe here. For starters, what exactly is an idea? An image, a concept in our minds? Or would you consider that the most basic electrical or chemical impulse in your brain is an idea? For what I've experienced so far, in usual terms an idea is a complex structure of those more basic impulses, that create a meaning in our consciousness. So, "BEFORE anything phisical is manifested" there need not to be an idea. Think about reflex arcs: you aren't even conscious about the movement you will do when a doctor pokes your knee with a hammer, let alone crafting an entire idea before it. Or even, let us assume to be in the mind of a (e.g.) basketball player. We would see that most of his actions on the court are impulsive and not consciously thought. We must then conclude that no, ideas do not necessarily precede actions. Please, take insight from the video, but don't try to fill the voids with inaccurate statements. If Nathan decides to gliss on an analogy used in the video it probably means the analogy itself is not exact. An ENTJ in an INTP moment during a ESTP phase after an ISFJ year, that took a test and resulted an ENTP, but deep inside he knows he is a very cute INFJ capable of predicting the future.
@@giacomocasartelli5503 Sorry, but you didn´t get the IDEA behind my comment :D I merely hinted at the fact, that there´s an (invisible) energy, that moves the physical world. In this short 4 sentence comment of mine, i didn´t intend to desribe each and every possile way, in which matter can be moved lol But i have to say i´m quite a spiritual person, so i believe in higher purposes, and "master plans" for movement in the 3d. Inspired by our higher self, or over- soul. (again, invisible for the human eye) In my opinion, it´s absurd to think of physical action as the driving force of activity in this "dense" world. There´s always something pulling the strings, that you can´t see. An idea, an inspiration, intuition, an impulse...
When I was a kid I was typed as INTJ in school. I was given a handout (photocopied from a book with no reference) that says this: “They are supreme pragmatists, who see reality as something which is quite arbitrary and made up. Thus it can be used as a tool - or ignored. Reality is malleable and can be changed, conquered, or brought to heel. Reality is a crucible for the refining of ideas, and in a sense, INTJs are the most theoretical of all the types. Where ESTP sees ideas as the pawn of reality, an INTJ sees reality as the pawn of ideas: No idea is too far-fetched to be entertained.” Pretty much. 😈
As a personality type with (Ni) as my primary function, that example at the end was horrible lol. It's not that we "speak in concepts" we just speak about concept first, and rely on analogies to communicate because otherwise... Well actually we would be talking in damn near symbols, or generalities, so you're right lol
the last time i was this early, the Nis werent planning yet
best comment
You savage!
LOL
Yes.
LMFAOOOOOOO UNDERRATED COMMENT
The way you explain things is fascinating.
Agreed!
Definitely
yesss i agree
IKR!!
I'm a big fan of this comment ~ Nathan
I find Ni a very difficult (if not the most difficult) cognitive function to explain. You did an amazing job!
Thank you very much, hopefully you found it helpful ~ Nathan
I use symbolism, metaphors and analogies all the time while discussions. And OMG sometimes I can’t believe that people cannot see OBVIOUS connections. For me it’s jus a small jump between similarities and for them it’s like a chasm of differences.
Same here
yeah me too, and sometimes I am like, why don't you understand, why my other friends can and speak my language but some can't ?
When I use this I feel I’m making so much sense and I see their face and realize they are lost 😅
Indeed
Replying to an old comment now but, as someone who's navigated Jungian theory and expansive interpretations (CPT, Asura, Love Who), as a concluded INFJ with honed Ni-Ti cogitations, though still relatively young-ish in age, it has been really, really challenging to convey my most basic thoughts and ideas, let alone my more refined ones. I have had about one, or three if I'm being forgiving, one to three people who could catch up to my manner of connecting things. In my entire life. Before I was aware that typology was a thing, that one certain person, I found, was also an INFJ. The second person was an INTJ. Third person was an undefined Ni dominant. Which just speaks to this mental-map-language thing. It is so nice to have a person catch up with you, without you needing to delve into the unnecessary linguistic detailing. Without having your elaborate words misunderstood. It has made me socially isolate myself as I can't enjoy interactions anymore, as I'm not getting any intellectual fulfillment from it. It had made me interpersonally picky as well as I realised I couldn't enjoy my time with any random person. With my 2 INxJ friends, our interactions are going really smooth, even as we don't really always agree, we can always quickly assimilate where we are going, so the information exchange is very short. And that is very satisfying. We reach the ultimatums, the conclusions, in synchrony, in few words. It makes me really think of the condition of dominant intuitives, particularly Pi. Existence can be really lonely this way. It can't even be described. I have to carve my path to happiness, in a way that excludes people from the picture. Such is fate, it seems. It has seemed for a while now.
I didn't realize until recently everyone couldn't see patterns everywhere and I always wondered why some people were so illogical about reoccurring events and predictions. MBTI is definitely helping me understand how sensors think. There's a lot we can learn from them too! Thanks for the interesting video 😊
Same here! But even when you do recognize this, it can still be so goddamn frustrating. I'm an ENFJ, and through my life experiences, my Ni is far more developed than the most. Some things are just so blatantly obvious to me that it pains me so much seeing non-Ni users just not get it, especially when they keep repeating the same mistake.
@@elainekan4209 I get so frustrated sometimes! My evil boss is definitely a sensor and she makes the most nonsensical long term decisions, and won't listen to anyone's concerns with them. I just let her crash and burn over and over again, I used to try to clue her in but she just sees me as an enemy to her glorious plans 😂
Glad you enjoyed the video! Yes it's comical to watch certain types wonder why everyone else can't do their main strengths as effortlessly and well as them. In fact, for that reason, it can take a long time for people to even realise their main ways of approaching the world are not only not shared by other people, but can sometimes be actively disliked and devalued! ~ Nathan
@@lovewho Yes, I am used to having my Ni devalued.
@@stevedavenport1202 I feel you bud
- Some random INTJ in a country full of *sensors*
My INTJ partner hates movies, so whenever I want to watch something with him, I "sell" it first by explaining all the hidden patterns in it and how they relate to his idea of reality. He doesn't know I do this on purpose (and it may be a bit manipulating) but it allows us to enjoy a good film together.
Are you a Fe user perhaps? 🤔
its not a bit of manipulating, its the definition of manipulating but i guess its for a good cause
wow, that's such an interesting moove
Intuitives: I think, therefore I am
Sensors: Since I doubt, I think; since I think, I exist
Sensors are more like: i feel/sense so I exist.
How about this:
I feel anxiety since I have feelings and I'm so emotional. Therefore, I feel like I exist but I'm not sure.
(Note that _thinking_ is not part of this equation)
Intuitives: I think, therefore I am
Sensors: I exist
@@headphones2308 but then again, why do you think?
@@headphones2308 Yeah I'm simple man I exist
These damn patterns are the reason why the husband and I cannot watch true mainstream movies nowadays. They are too predictable and therefore boring.
Also, using Ni as primary function is hard to describe, really. Sometimes you have an idea that is *so* abstract that you cannot find the right words to explain it. But you know that it must be right. It all makes sense in your head, but... you cannot simply project it into other people
Ni dom here. Yeah, the predictability of TV shows, bleh. The pattern detection takes the joy out of certain forms of entertainment.
Ni Dom here, i suggest watching shows from different mediums(anim, kdrama, cartoon, hollywood,bollywood, etc) and finding the best from those. Also that part where you can’t explain your idea? Fucking correct. I suggest learnin more than different languages with different origins so you can explain your thoughts with the different vocabs. So you can explain your thoughts in 3-4 different languages. Not that it would matter to an average person in an english speaking country.
True, you have to start watching different type of shows to get enjoyment. I searched many mediums and found shows/stories portrayed in new ways. Eventually those mediums will become more shallow as well but it’s a nice reset
Christopher Nolan movies are exactly what you’re looking for
You should put your ideas in writing - then things will either come to life or fall apart, well, at least, in that specific iteration. And who knows, it might even spawn new ideas about unrelated, but also interesting, stuff. Cheers!
To this day, I wonder why the knights of Ni wanted another shrubbery, and wanted King Arthur to cut down a tree with a herring.
😅😅
Perhaps it's a metaphor :)
Or perhaps it was simply a red herring
Monty Python references will always endear you to me (and Brits in general) ~ Nathan
Well, the first is so they can put the second shrubbery at a slightly lower level and make a nice terraced path effect. The second is just trolling.
IT Crowd: Trying to act like someone you are not results in even more awkwardness than just being your natural (awkward) self.
Love! this comment
Lol, have we met?
Brilliant!! ~ Nathan
Funny enough.. I only feel normal and not awkward among people WHEN I act as one of the crafted personas I have created for myself to avoid feeling the weird/alien/ black sheep in the room -
INFJ
One thing about being an Ni dominant is not respecting (or forgetting) about the physical world of "here and now". You're always in your head observing things, questioning and wondering about what, how, and why they are, until you find yourself skipped the morning and noon meals (yep, that's me 😅). It's like you're in your head thinking. Or space exploration, but everything happens inside the head. Most of the time, I find myself just staring blankly at a wall after an Ni time of visual creativity. Idk. It's like that. Haha 😅
That's why Ni users use Se as well!
Thank you so much for always clarifying and emphasizing that personality typing models aren't the be-all end-all. So many people I explain MBTI to think personality models are trying to box in something that is so unbelievably nuanced, when in reality, it simply serves as a baseline. You da real goat bruh
Thank you very much! It's definitely important to be aware of and vocal about the limitations of anything you're advocating publicly in my view, people who talk without those caveats instantly arouse suspicion from me! ~ Nathan
So that's why I ponder over litertrature or anything that I read or watch even people through out their life , or the way they behave. I find myself naturally summarising different theories, concepts also I love making notes , taking out the very essence of everything can be helpful in puting that abstract theory or idea to a better way of using it.
INFJ
"Taking out the very essence of everything" - perfectly put ~ Nathan
You have a rare and pretty efficient way of explaining these things. You're cool man!
Why thank you...! ~ Nathan
because of Ni, I find lots of films having the same scenario, which makes me bored. I also use Ni in my academic life where I see the similar patterns between different concepts. This helps me understand the subject well. However sometimes I struggle to distinguish if I see the pattern for itself (Ne) or I have stored that pattern from my previous encounters unconsciously.
I can't wait for your videos on Ti, Ne, Si and Fe.....
Sincerely,
an INTP
Didn't even need to click the Read more ~ Nathan
I’ve only recently discovered this channel so I’d like to add something to the discussion. I’ve read a lot of comments from Ni users which said that „mainstream films are too predictable”, or boring, or obvious. While I agree, there is a concept within film studies, or film psychology, which says that understanding of the patterns we’re all spotting doesn’t necesarilly come from one’s intelligence but is rather related to „genre’s scheme” (I’m not sure about the translation though!!!). For example, when you’re watching a horror film, you can predict a jumpscare moment because of the scene’s setting, writing, lightning, etc. - not because you’ve seen a jumpscare before or because you’re a film genius. Cinema (especially commercial cinema) likes to give it’s viewers’ the impression that they’re smart - and what distinguishes „the aware viewer” from „the unaware viewer” (at least in theory) is that the latter is convinced that when they’re spotting a pattern it’s due to their own intelligence, while the primal knows that the pattern has already existed and is being shown to him intentionally.
It’s quite difficult for me to explain this concept the way I’d like to (especially since I’m speaking in my second language) but I thought that this film studies thesis actually reminds me of Ni a lot. It’s not just about „guessing” and „abstract thinking”, as many people like to describe it - it’s about being aware of the hidden meaning, the subtext, and due to knowing of it’s existance, it can also be discovered and analised.
Thank you for your wonderful content Nathan
Absolutely love this comment! Totally agree with the points that you made in it too. If you haven't already ventured on there I'd recommend checking out the LoveWho Discord server, I think you'd get along with the people on there! ~ Nathan
@@lovewho I'll definitely join!! Thanks ~
Thanks 4 the comment. I'm trying to look at the lense of Ni users. I am an Fi-Ne user :)
"The same function manifests differently in different types" --- so very true. Which is why I find it so darned fascinating.
Love the quote at 1:23. As someone who studied both Biology and Psychology, patterns are hugely important to propose theories, but collecting data is necessary for proof/truth.
Except, of course, when you'd rather live with your dream or vague ideal, rather than have to face truth.
Interesting that Frank James did a video in this vein this morning, too.
Your narrative-finder idea is absolutely how I see Ni btw. And, yes, I think we love simile and metaphor because both conventions tend to correlate experience with a universal concept.
@Luce M oh MAN, I got PLAYED 😹
Almost all the genre youtubers copy each other within a short timeframe - following the crowd is how videos get more recommendations from the alg.
@@Sharkuterie327 I'd buy that, except the fact that it takes a long time to script and record and edit a post.
@@christineherrmann205 I’d be curious to know the answer from the creators. How long do you think it takes? For content I post on another channel, it takes about 2 days to shoot and edit (w/ about 45 min of footage). There are also trends due to UA-camrs following what types of vids perform well. It becomes a feedback loop, but some are ahead of the curve.
I find my Ti-Ni helps me contemplate ideas, narrowing down to a specific point, explanation or conclusion, if there happens to be one. - ISTP
Exactly! Then the Se grounds it ~ Nathan
Follow-up from "First!" (alright, I had to take advantage of actually still being awake at 6:30am ET!)
I really appreciate your overview of Ni. This ability to look far into the future and plan ahead (even if they are vague predictions) has always been elusive to me. I'm going to go ahead and full-on embrace ISTP here; I think it is that disconnect, for me, is the point between seeing the underlying patterns and then projecting or planning much further forward (as an Ni dom might, for example). I often think of Ni as being the thing that helps me quickly identify the crux of an issue or problem that needs solving so I can quickly tackle it. I also see as being very helpful in guessing what the unseen side(s) of unfamiliar objects will look like, or get a random flash of insight into how something will work or turn out. I find that it is useful for planning much more short term/immediate logical steps to cut to the heart of what I'm trying to do. Se is grounding the Ni to what's relevant and happening here and now and constantly pinging off potential recognized patterns. At least, that is my interpretation of what's happening with Ti, Se, Ni, Fe lined up together.
I look forward to more of these function videos!!
Every time I try to respond to this comment big parts of it are missing for some reason. I totally agree with your description here (and might even borrow it for a future video). ISTPs have the most balanced relationship with Ni since they don't over or under-use it and as you said, the Se grounds it ~ Nathan
Movie, The Matrix: a debate that reoccurs is Choice vs Causality, you have total freedom over your choices vs everything you do is an effect of a cause that is an effect of another cause and basically everything is a massive chain reaction, freedom vs no-freedom, being able to make your own future vs having one already decided for you (destiny). While these are two extreme stances, you can see this in everyday interactions. A choice you make, while having total freedom over it, also brings the effects of it (known and unknown) and you can end up being mostly in Causality. You can become trapped in the effects of your own choice for extended periods of time (bank loans is one good example, being highly in debt limits your freedom because you need to ensure a minimum income which means an impact on time and energy as well).
Back to the movie (spoiler alert), Neo choosing to break free from the Matrix sets a series of events (effects to his choice) that ultimately leads to the machine city and eliminating Agent Smith at the cost of his own life (presumably, it is not clear if Neo dies). What if Neo took the blue pill instead? He'd still be in the Matrix, yet still trapped in the effects of his choice. Regardless of the choice he makes he is still bound by what follows, you can say it's destiny, but at the same time, by having that choice, you can say you can choose your destiny which sounds paradoxical.
We are not free from choice, we are free to choose. If you don't choose, then you will eventually be left with only one option and in that case, the choice was made for you because you failed to do so in time. Even in that case, it was you who stripped away all your options by deciding not to choose. Even indecision is a decision. In this regard Causality is true, there is always a cause and effect, and at the same time Choice is true as well, we cannot choose for there not to be a cause, we ca decide which cause it is most of the time.
awesome comment thanks
interesting
Very interesting comment. I'm wondering how the architect fits into this equation, is he equally bound by causality because he certainly implies that he might be above that kind of thing? At the end of the trilogy (trilogy so far... there is a new one being made), he is outplayed in some ways by the Oracle so possibly he is indeed equally within the game regardless of whether he created it to begin with ~ Nathan
I'd say he is, I've watched the scenes with the Architect, both the one where he is meeting Neo and where he is meeting the Oracle. His goal was to create a system in which the entire population was contained but failed to do so a number of times. Then a different program, The Oracle, provided a different solution by introducing choice (or apparent choice) which led to a much stable Matrix.
The Architect is bound, on one side, by his choice to follow the solution provided by the Oracle which was more of a gamble on her part. At the end, he follows through with the peace where humanity is freed from the machines (at least the ones that want out of the Matrix). He could have destroyed Zion and restart humanity on his own, he didn't need Neo to pick the people who would do that.
While he does give the sense of superiority I think he does this more as an intimidation or a covering tactic than actually being superior. What the Architect is well aware of is the presence of Causality and how it is intertwined with Choice. He knew that ultimately Neo will seek him out, but that also means the knew he had to be found which is an effect to his choice of adopting the Oracle's solution.
I think the Architect is actually scared or uncomfortable with the chaos that Choice brings, because there might be a slight chance where humanity actually broke free from the machines and actually brought an end to the entire machine race. And all of that could have been an effect in a long series of events that initially started by allowing the possibility of 'The One' to exist in the first place. What he also points out is that allowing choice to exist, humanity could end itself (since Neo choses to save Trinity vs the human race) which would have a drastic impact on the machines.
matrix 4
This reminds me of the time I made the mistake of going to see Snow White by myself and left the theater with a complete book idea on how it's a metaphor for how emotions can carry us through a parasitically unhealthy system fueled by big sugar, and how life has a natural self correcting tendency of finding a way.
I love this idea. In a typically Ni way of course. 😊
Yesss, I can’t help but see patterns everywhere, whether it’s with peoples behavior around me or if I’m really tucked into stories particularly mythology, one can see set archetypes used for gods and goddesses for thousands of years. You did a great job explaining, and as per usual, it was a fascinating subject to cover!
It makes a lot of sense that high Ni users are fans of archetypes since they are precisely the summarising and condensing type of process that they love ~ Nathan
I have NI as a second function and I always look for patterns like crazy. I love psychology and I see intriguing patterns between different mental and personality disorders.
No way?!? Im an entj and i like finding patterns in personality disorders too?!?!??!
As much as I understand what you said, I don't necessarily have these concepts and patters stuck in my head. In fact i feel i can barely put things into words when asked to do it. It just comes out naturally and i usually end up sounding smart but can barely remember what i said.
- INFJ
Thanks for your videos, they're thoroughly enjoyable, being concise and filled with amazing words. It often feels like listening to a short poem or story
This is what I got from Memento;
Memories are unreliant, as they may easily become subjective to each person. Realities change and these realities are likely to influence past memories, so sometimes we morph those memories into something which could easily fit or make sense to our current reality.
That's cool. What I got was: You can manipulate yourself in the right direction with some well placed actions.
The ending of that film was intense and something of a gut punch in some ways. Seeing someone essentially choose in that moment to lie to themselves in such a profound way left me shocked... but also worried at how easily we can all slip into doing that ~ Nathan
@@lovewho Yes! The ending was quite impactfull. I have only watched the movie once, because it's so strong (The same with Synechdoche New York. That movie is like nothing else).
Time, memory, perception... All malleable and illusive was my takeaway. A mirage, if you will. I'd had a feeling that the plot paralleled yet was still a little unnerved overall.
This is a great description. You know, I'm an Ne user and sometimes I struggle to see where Ni ends and Ne begins. I realise that this has a lot to do with the fact that they're just theoretical models so the boundaries between them aren't very clear, but I can see the distinctions between the introverted and extraverted versions of other functions more clearly. It helps me to think of Ni and Ne in terms of what they serve - Ni works alongside Se and serves the extraverted judging function, while Ne works alongside Si and serves the introverted judging function - and from there I can see why Ni tends to go deep (to connect the dots of a specific pattern - or build a narrative, as you brilliantly put it - that will help to solve a problem) while Ne goes wide (to identify connections between things that will confirm overarching truths/ values). But while your description of Ni seemed totally on point to me, the example you used at the end - identifying underlying themes in films and TV or making connections between various films and shows - is something that has always come naturally to me and I do it for a living. As far as I can tell, both Ni and Ne users would be good at that; I'm not sure why it's specifically an Ni activity. Why do you see this as unique to Ni?
> When you want to have a discussion about abstract things but everyone around you and in the internet is incapable of it because they cannot comprehend the theoretical and abstract world. So you keep feeling unfulfilled and that no one understands you, no one is making an attempt to understand you and you are expected to understand everyone, because you actually can and do so.
This is my biggest ENFJ dilemma and this is why I consume so many memes.
There's no such thing as too many memes! ~ Nathan
Fellow ENFJ to add: When you explain these ideas or give an analogy (especially in the context of people's behaviour/situations) and you are told "that would never happen" "why you making stuff up" etc and you're just sat there like but I can see it happening...even unlikely events shouldn't be dismissed as it is still in the realm of possibility.
Plus it's fun to explore the abstract. Me and my very close INFJ friend have the best abstract discussions. I love it.
Clever boy: Getting Engagement in the comments by asking us Ni users to do what we do best....that’s the theme I’ve noticed: Your cleverness in engaging Ni users 😉
I figured that Ni users would at least appreciate my attempts! ~ Nathan
There's an anime called Code Geass that I really like solely because of the evolution of the main character Lelouch.
(Obligatory spoilers warning)
In the anime he starts off a trollish student body president who lives the double life of a Revolutionary called Zero. Needless to say fighting a corrupt government turns into a messy situation and he is constantly backstabbing and lying to people in the purpose of creating a world without corruption for his sister Nunally who he envisions as innocent. He does this time and time again because he refuses to yield his ideal world for her and is in constant conflict over it among other things. Near the end of the anime however Nunally finds out about his second identity and pretty much criticizes her brother, calling him a monster which (for reasons too long to explain) he agree's with. (Although hearing it from the mouth of his sister shocks him a bit. ).
Basically with all that context out of the way I would say the biggest message of the story was that desiring grand Ideals are self defeating. In trying to defeat the awful government he became just like them, in hopes to create a world to live with the sister he loves she grew to despise him. The only people around him who remotely got happy endings were the ones who could cut their losses and remain honest. I know this explanation isn't profound but in order to express how brilliant it was I would have to type in a whole other few paragraphs and since this comment is already long enough ill end it here.
Epic ~ Nathan
Even though lelouch didn't get the happy ending, he got the best ending by creating a world where nanali could live happily. He became the symbol of evil to unite the world so that evil wouldn't divide them. And that ending is one of the best and most satisfying ones which makes everything understandable. It's a goddamn masterpiece.
So an interesting film I watched on Netflix the other day was ‘Devil all the time’ . Which tbh I don’t know why I put myself threw the stress of watching psychological thrillers when I have to look away every 5 minutes . Anyway the main principal I took away from it was this: people experience generational trauma, it is up to oneself whether you continue the cycle or end it.
'Generational Trauma' is a seriously scary thought actually. It's funny that you mentioned the masochistic way we interact with horror films and psychological thrillers. I watched 'The Haunting of Hill House' a while back, on my phone, in bed, at night. Getting up to go to the bathroom was a seriously un-fun experience. Also I'd highly recommend that show, it's on Netflix! ~ Nathan
Honestly, this is one of the most clear definitions of Ni I've seen. All too often, these videos inevitably are mired in pointlessly vague jargon.
So, thanks for keeping this clear and easy to understand without watering it down. 😊
Brilliant observations on Ni. I see this at work in my INFJ friend for sure. One thing I notice about Ni is that once they see the patterns and reach a conclusion they move in to confirmation bias where they start to fit the patterns they see in to the conclusions they have made. In contrast, as a savior Ne guy (ENFP) I am moved off my conclusions much easier as I gather (and gather and gather and gather) more information. Same with planning. Ni's are great at planning! Seeing the future clearly and working to make it a reality. Sometimes this can lead to shattered delusions if they miscalculate what a situation, or a person, really is (curses on you demon Se!). Meanwhile, Ne me has a difficult time planning (and especially executing) but is much better at making adjustments as I go, which is a blessing and a curse. Making it up as I go vs. fitting patterns into an already determined view of reality. I would love to see your thoughts in an Ni vs Ne comparison video!
That's 100% a risk with Ni, since there's such an abundance of data out there in the modern age there are endless incorrect patterns people can come up with ~ Nathan
So Ni is why High School English was so easy. I can gather all the disjointed metaphors, similes, etc in a novel and invent an overall meaning from that. Of course, the result was a verbal mess with a questionable conclusion, but for some reason my English teacher loved that type of thing.
You should do a short conversational video with CS Joseph. Twenty or thirty minutes. I just think it would be interesting. You guys could maybe talk about some somewhat unexpected topics (thoughts on MBTI in the broader culture; the direction of typology; the experience of minor internet celebrity, for the lack of a better word..). Just kind of laid back and conversational, not informational or fully charged in any way. Might be a way to share some fans too.
It would be a cool video because it is a bit of a mismatch, tonally. Two people you wouldn’t really expect to see together, for some reason.
honestly, you look like you could be in GoT
Littlefinger's secret son.
Its the eyebrows.
All the Welsh actors in GoT seem to be villains... which is fine by me ~ Nathan
Me, a lead Ni User: Yeah, it just works.
this cracked me up XD as an Ni dom i also can't articulate it in a verbal concrete explanation but i'm always certain it works xD
Lol. So true. 😆
Ideas ARE real. one of your better statements.
I think everyone with dominant or auxiliary Intuition love finding patterns. I think what distinguishes Ne and Ni is how and why they like finding those patterns. Is it just for the sake of finding the pattern, or is it because it´s helpful for the future.
I’ve never heard Ni described so accurately and concisely! But yes, learning, thinking, and speaking in concepts when most people don’t is probably the most prevalent challenge of being Ni dom. And forgetting that patterns are not so glaringly obvious to everyone
Great explanation Nathan! As an enfp, I'm not supposed to have Ni as one of my 4 main functions, but I do feel it working/lurking away there somewhere. I always thought those a-ha! moments were Ne +plus me just being a general smarty pants type of gal. Anywho, limited by using subtitles, as my German isn't quite up to snüf, I would like to comment on the TV series, Dark. There are so many themes:
1. Small events can have huge meaning if you pay attention (or everything is connected) 2. Science matters 3. Accept and trust yourself 4. Love is important, not just a diversion 5. Self sacrifice is not for the faint of heart 6. There is deep humanity in everyone. 7. Not everyone and everything can be rescued.
I need to watch this series again. I've watched it twice....the third time may be the charm!
Love it! Ne can do exactly the same thing as Ni except it's more expansive and wants to seek more and more connections and patterns so it makes total sense ~ Nathan
Loved this! Quite spot on! My sister comes to me with a problem, another problem underpinned by the same principle (or lack thereof). I throw her a concept like a bone hoping she’ll take it and run with it, applying it to all of her problems that relate. She responds that she needs the concrete steps to fill in the gaps and that she doesn’t get the metaphors/concepts I’m throwing at her. 😆
Thank you Nathan, top quality content (as usual)!
What you describe with books (and TV shows) could be pushed even further, to what makes a character or a plot entertaining. How do you catch your reader’s attention? How do you grab them by their emotions and pull them into your story? Ni topic, all the way. The beauty of this is that you can find multiple skeletons for multiple genres and still filter them down to pure concepts. And then... expand again to create your stories (Ne taking it from there). I love this journey along the intuitive perspective 😊
I love how much Ne is in this comment. Elia: "But why stop there!!!??" ~ Nathan
first show i thought of was the good place and “morality isnt cut and dry”-
Oh I like that! Also love that show ~ Nathan
" 'For intuitives it's like the ideas are real and everything that exists is an example of an idea in practice.' I mean, that's a bit extreme, but you get the idea."
my Ni-dom ass: "What do you mean 'extreme?' that's just fact." LOL
Since I’ve found a common thread of your videos to be both amusing and informative, I liked and subscribed
-🧡infj
That's the best comment/compliment I could hope for! ~ Nathan
Junk by William S. Burroughs & Trainspotting by Irvine Welsh
Drugs (addiction) as freedom. Tales of wanting,.
Out of control.
Out of mind.
A brightly lit, dark alleyway.
My favorite sort of dark and twisty. You're not the only one with a dungeon Nathan :p
I think you've nailed this better than anyone I've ever listened to before. According to your analysis, I'm most definitely an Ni user and I'll even use your ideas when explaining my mind's workings to other people. Thanks! 😁
INTJ here. I have studied dreams (my own and others') and what you describe is exactly what I do. Ignore the details at first. Find a basic theme for the dream, then evaluate the symbolism of the details as they relate to the theme.
Thank you! That was an excellent articulation of lead Ni. INFJ- 🤣
Thank you very much ~ Nathan
This new series will be a wonderful new addition! I'm looking forward to learn about the next ones. The quotes are always a nice way to illustrate your points. I actually rewind the video and read them again to let it soak in! "Narrative finders'' this is such a beautiful talent. Beside appreciating a story for what it is, discussing the different narratives is such a fun thing to do.
Agreed, it might translate well into them being narrative creators as well. Finished watching the video you send me about objective vs subjective criticism, brilliant stuff! ~ Nathan
@@lovewho I’m glad to hear you found it interesting!
"getting the essence of things is the essence of introverted intuition", so accurate. In high school, teachers used to criticize me for this ability and I've never understood why.
wait this may be the most color Nathan has ever worn on his channel
Ha! Yes! I think in ideas, NOT words or pictures, which is why it takes a while for me to explain things. I am always searching for the right word or analogy or metaphor to accurately explain what I am thinking.
That was an interesting video. I will now write two concepts from every book and show/movie I have ever seen. Thank you.
I’m very happy that you made this video as it explains Ni to a great extent. This video is my conformation that I am an INTJ.
Glad to hear it! ~ Nathan
@@lovewho thank you Nathan, you’re seriously the best.
I like the way you summed up the sensor/intuitive dichotomy. 👌🏾
Glad you like it and hopefully you found it useful! ~ Nathan
Am INFJ, I'm going to do your challenge lol. I would do Attack On Titan but because this show is so Ni heavy and the aiuhor already does just fine with clarifying the principles, I'm going to do Supernatural; just took one of the most commonly known shows I could think of.
I learnt that a life that Dean and Sam lived can alienate you from living a normal life, and how unimportant the normal way of living seemed to become (getting a career etc). I also learnt about obsession; the obsession they had for the hunting life, saving people, saving each other, and that although they were named 'Team Free Will', so often in the show they weren't in control anymore. They became possessed by their own personal demons, similar to how someone may become possessed with some life goal which they refuse to rethink until it's too late.
I also learnt more about the fan-writer-relationship and fan-actor-relationship, made some important observations about that, because half of the season was only written because the show had such passionate fans. But the story already was told, the writers/ actors didn't have much more to really say and one could see that. It's interesting how this was handled.
I chose Pretty Little Liars (I’m INTJ)
“Trust wisely.”
I haven't seen that show but I'll trust you ( hopefully wisely) on your assessment ~ Nathan
Yes,yes,yes, and then there is no one we can talk to, about our findings.
Very clear description, thank you.
getting the essence of Ni is the essence of Ni..... simply brilliant!
Glad you liked the video! If you’re deep down the rabbit hole of personality types then feel free to check out the LoveWho discord server as well if you haven’t already ~ Nathan
sarazanmai gave me an interesting concept that its our secrets that create relationships, when you trust someone with something of yours you would rather not be made public, thats when a relationship is created, and as for myself it made me realize that might be a problem since im either completly open about stuff or dont talk about them to even my closest friends, what hinders my ability to emotinally connect to others.
One of the best videos online on introverted intuition.
Are there offline ones?
@@user-lu4fn9pe4y Yeah. I have one on VHS.
@@user-lu4fn9pe4y I meant not just on UA-cam.
@@Darren_S i see, have a goodday if u will.
I would love if you would continue this series.
The Originals. Goes to extremes to protect loved one's for now but creates enemies in the process that would later hurt loved one's in the future. rinse and repeat.
Fascinating, that sounds like a difficult cycle to break, cool summary ~ Nathan
Yes, I enjoyed it
Okay I'll try it. The Ultimate Gift- the message of the movie is that the most valuable gifts you can give someone are not material, but they are things like love and family and hard work and the chance to make a difference in someone's life. But it's so much better to watch the movie, and I get the concept (maybe because it's explained in the movie) but had a hard time putting it into words.
This is what Ray Dalio describes as Top Down thinking (Intuition) vs Bottom up thinking (Sensor-ship)
My wife has a saying for when I abstract the essence out of something to explain it for what it is....."you take the fun out of everything".
Haha! I can totally see why people would feel that way ~ Nathan
Yeah, that's a balance. When I studied danish language and literature I had a teacher in modern literary history who was a real Structuralist -he boiled everything down to one-liners and drew large maps where he would connect everything on the blackboard to a point where he would reduce one poem of our fines danish poets to "this poem is really about peace love and harmony" - totally collapsing the most beautiful poem.... 😊
Always see patterns since I am able to perceive things... It is so exasperating to see close friends are always unable to see them.
Some 16 type personality tests identify me as ISTJ. Funny thing is, I don't like going out and sense things. Even without sensing things directly, I am always able to foresee the future events, and see clearly all the behaviour patterns of people without even knowing the people in person.
Most probably what happens here is some test questions are not really discerning, or too leading towards some particular cognitive functions.
[INTJ here]The book of Mastery by Robert Green. "Follow your calling"
Such a brilliant book, you're making me want to re-listen to the audiobook of that now! ~ Nathan
Excited for this new series on the cognitive functions - nice job as usual Nathan!
Glad you're enjoying it so far! Eventually I'll get through all the functions ~ Nathan
Tried your exercise. Error: insufficient Te. Please load more Te and try again. (The themes compiled fine, but ran into an error in outputting to the interface)
Alias Grace: Reality/truth is relative: We tell and retell reality/stories so much that they always loose some touch with the actual truth to a point where reality becomes fragmented and not shared. And "oh well, we'll have to live with that".
Seriously, watch it.
Well, this comment seriously makes me want to watch this! ~ Nathan
@@lovewho You should do that! It's very clever. Magaret Atwood is a genius. Just watching some of her interviews makes my IQ rise with serveral points 😉
Never give up -From Lord of the RIngs
Even the darkness is a passing thing... ~ Nathan
"Caos isn't a pit. It's a latter" That is Ni for you.
Too bad he missed a rung, eh?
Millenium Actress : Memories don't have to be accurate to be meaningful.
Interesting, now I'm curious to watch whatever this is! ~ Nathan
Your videos are my favorite. I almost always clicked ur videos right away.
This is great to hear! Long may it continue ~ Nathan
Perfectly explained. It seeks to understand the ESSENCE of things.
I love this idea for a new video series. Definitely going to follow it!
Glad to hear it, eventually I'll get through all 8 of the cognitive functions and probably also the function axis ~ Nathan
I really prefer when you give the usual youtuber credo (pls subscribe and hit the bell) at the end because then you’ve proven to me that I have a reason to subscribe because I’ve already watched this video and I know the quality of your content
Noted! Ultimately though I am a pragmatist and I've noticed the results differ drastically depending on how you ask/how you focus on the ask ~ Nathan
Book - The Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman: the root of any conflict is poor communication and the inability or refusal to think critically & self-examine.
The Guns of August covers the events leading up to WWI and the first month of the war. Tuchman includes many personal details of the heads of state and high-profile military leaders involved - quotes, excerpts from letters, etc. Their attitudes, motives, and (lack of) reasoning behind their actions could be applied to any petty dispute among teenagers, athletes/coaches/parents, or reality TV stars, etc. There is little to no difference in the "logic" behind the spat between a stubborn coach and obnoxious parent, who thinks their child is being "singled out" or "targeted," and the Kaiser starting a two-front war because he's convinced himself that England and France are out to get him. The consequences of each situation are obviously much different but they are radically the same.
AMAZING! Particularly love your summary in the first line, very well put indeed ~ Nathan
I’ve been gathering that Ni is not so much focused on finding the narrative in events but rather fitting events into a narrative you’ve accepted to make sense of it, whereas Ne is more about discovering and accepting new narratives as they come with possibly no conclusion.
It seems to me that Ni types lean toward being astute and succinct yet relatively closed-minded.
The Queen's Gambit
- Maybe you can't see it now, but the little things can make you happier than the big ones.
Since I'm an ISFJ, I needed to know more about the Ni types, thanks!! ❤
Hope you found it useful ~ Nathan
@@lovewho I did, thanks:)
'Tis is a very good video. I'm starting to understand the idea of the introverted intuition in my brain. Thank you!
This is great to hear!!! ~ Nathan
INTP here. Ni is one of my biggest weaknesses. my INFJ friend often calls me out for having no foresight when really i feel like there are too many possibilities and uncertainties about the future (Ti-Ne, mostly Ne though). so it feels presumptuous to predict what the future holds.
also i'm a victim of my own "fortune-telling". i deal with depression and bouts of it include making rash and grim assumptions about the future, which repels me from using Ni even more because i find comfort in the uncertainty
Kingdom come deliverance: Sometimes your most ardent goals and desires are simply a reconciliation with a lost past
Very nice, I will long into watching this ~ Nathan
@@lovewho it's actually a story driven video game, but they will be making a live adaptation soon
My personality type tells me I'm Ne. But the "detective work", synthesis of ideas, condensing of abstract things, feeling like ideas are the more "real" way to tie the world together and make sense of it - I really resonated with. What are the major differences between Ne and Ni? (I'm ENFP)
I just watched your video on Extroverted Intuition. Definitely identified with that more. 😅
MINDHUNTER: It is important to seek to understand the cores of the darker aspects of our world if we wish to effectively temper them instead of only condemning them and looking away. Honestly, in any context, it's important to seek out the cores of things to effectively understand/wield/control them. If you see what connects the world and the cores of things, you're better off.
(Oh and I'm INTJ)
Very well said! I'm a big fan of that show and I also enjoyed the second season which had a very slow pace. Looking forward to season three whenever it comes out. Great comment! ~ Nathan
Harry Potter: If you stand up for the course/actions you believe in, you will "get there".
Love it ~ Nathan
Very clear and concise video. Great stuff
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni - Human bonds are the most powerful force in existence. It's an anime about the power of friendship.
It's also a psychological horror with a huge amount of gore.
Love this! I’ve been trying to explain this to people who don’t understand me (pretty much everyone).
You make my mind calm because normally I have to interpret what people say differently for it to apply which leads to so many rabbit trails. I feel totally alone in how I process life until I watch your videos. I don’t have to work so hard, I can just relax by listening and learning straightforward.
Thank you for your videos!
This is really nice to hear! I was mildly concerned that this description would still be a bit too... abstract, but then again, high Ni users would be totally fine with that anyway. Really glad you're enjoying the videos! ~ Nathan
Thanks for giving us mental (not physical) exercises 😆. I don't consciously find patterns. I might consciously do it more often now.
Happy to be your psychological personal trainer! ~ Nathan
The Beginning After The End (Online Comic)
The main character (Arthur) is reincarnated into a new world with the experiences and knowledge of his past life being a king. I see this story as being a thought experiment of some sort. I believe it is a fascinating story that digs quite deep into how responsibility affects a person and how it can force them to grow. The value of your life is dependent on how hard you work to carry your responsibilities to the end. I think this is the main crux of the story that kept me engaged. While Arthur has some unfair advantages being reborn, he also has to work hard to actualize the potential of said advantages. Thus, the accuracy and quality of his mission is entirely dependent on whether or not Arthur works hard enough to make it a reality. This is the foundation of leadership/kingship that can be easily overlooked in favor of the status and resources a king/leader posseses. It's not just the vision or the means to an end that gives someone power and authority, it is also their determination and drive that elevates them above the rest. At least in terms of a just authority based on competence and not arbitrary social standing or wealth. Hope this sufficed.
"For intuitives it´s like the ideas are real and everything that exists is an example of an idea in practice." - You: "That´s a bit extreme, but you get the idea." ........ errrrr.. So tell me, what needs to be there BEFORE you take action, and BEFORE anything physical is manifested? Hmm... maybe an idea? ;) Love, an INFJ, in an INTJ phase lol
"This comment clearly proves what I feel is truth."
~ENFJ 😂
(Man, I feel sort of bad being silly when Nathan is clearly trying so hard to be serious.)
It's way deeper than what you describe here. For starters, what exactly is an idea? An image, a concept in our minds? Or would you consider that the most basic electrical or chemical impulse in your brain is an idea? For what I've experienced so far, in usual terms an idea is a complex structure of those more basic impulses, that create a meaning in our consciousness. So, "BEFORE anything phisical is manifested" there need not to be an idea. Think about reflex arcs: you aren't even conscious about the movement you will do when a doctor pokes your knee with a hammer, let alone crafting an entire idea before it. Or even, let us assume to be in the mind of a (e.g.) basketball player. We would see that most of his actions on the court are impulsive and not consciously thought.
We must then conclude that no, ideas do not necessarily precede actions.
Please, take insight from the video, but don't try to fill the voids with inaccurate statements. If Nathan decides to gliss on an analogy used in the video it probably means the analogy itself is not exact.
An ENTJ in an INTP moment during a ESTP phase after an ISFJ year, that took a test and resulted an ENTP, but deep inside he knows he is a very cute INFJ capable of predicting the future.
@@giacomocasartelli5503 this is such a T response to an Ni comment, I can't even.
@@giacomocasartelli5503 Sorry, but you didn´t get the IDEA behind my comment :D I merely hinted at the fact, that there´s an (invisible) energy, that moves the physical world. In this short 4 sentence comment of mine, i didn´t intend to desribe each and every possile way, in which matter can be moved lol But i have to say i´m quite a spiritual person, so i believe in higher purposes, and "master plans" for movement in the 3d. Inspired by our higher self, or over- soul. (again, invisible for the human eye) In my opinion, it´s absurd to think of physical action as the driving force of activity in this "dense" world. There´s always something pulling the strings, that you can´t see. An idea, an inspiration, intuition, an impulse...
When I was a kid I was typed as INTJ in school. I was given a handout (photocopied from a book with no reference) that says this: “They are supreme pragmatists, who see reality as something which is quite arbitrary and made up. Thus it can be used as a tool - or ignored. Reality is malleable and can be changed, conquered, or brought to heel. Reality is a crucible for the refining of ideas, and in a sense, INTJs are the most theoretical of all the types. Where ESTP sees ideas as the pawn of reality, an INTJ sees reality as the pawn of ideas: No idea is too far-fetched to be entertained.”
Pretty much. 😈
Good series idea!
Thank you! ~ Nathan
As a personality type with (Ni) as my primary function, that example at the end was horrible lol. It's not that we "speak in concepts" we just speak about concept first, and rely on analogies to communicate because otherwise... Well actually we would be talking in damn near symbols, or generalities, so you're right lol
The idea of talking in symbols is quite fascinating... [contemplates creating new language] ~ Nathan