@@MauseDaysyou do realize that’s under serious grounds for investigation on both sides right? One for exploitation and the other for blackmail, libel and slander against the competition.
Don't you think it's kinda sus that the only vtubers who distanced themselves by unfollowing EvilToaster since it came out that he's a creep are the only ones being banned/warned.
I remember that time when they allowed non-vtubers to use the vtuber tag. Yes, Twitch has a bias against vtubers. Hell, they (Twitch) allow non-vtubers to wear swimsuits yet will ban or warn any vtuber that does it. I remember when Shylilly was in trouble despite her bikini/swimsuit not being any different than the in real life streamers. Classic do as I say from my point of view attitude from Twitch.
Funny given how youtube is treating them right now unless they're part of a youtube only company. Wouldn't be surprised if vtubers in general are in trouble.
I've said it before, I will repeat it again. Twitch has historically always been relatively anti anime, long before it was taken over by the onlyfans-advertising streamers and the new reputation of the administration and moderators of Twitch being the biggest simps of these women. Add that VTubers are the great force that is directly eating the market of these women and the mod simps and their already existing history of aggression towards anime related content and you get an abuse of power. That part, about how Twitch had a history of being hostile towards anime related content, is important in regards to how things have grown over time with Twitch. Sure, not everyone who works at Twitch hates it, but enough in the driving seat has issues with it that have caused a very uneven application of things such as prohibited material on Twitch. The clearest example of that is to just look at the Prohibited Games list. If it has an Anime aesthetic, it has a higher likelihood to be banned than if it was hyper realistic.
Its worse. Im convinced that. twitch staff are in the pockets of the e girls. Most notably because they likely had relations when the most popular e girls where not of age. And now those e girls are adults. So they say "you will do as we say or we will go to the police and then expose you on every platform"
Proper reply from twitch: "The staff who banned you without enough evidence has been warned and suspended for 30 days. If this happened again, this person will be permanently removed as part of our team. We apologize for the inconvenience and will ensure this wont happen again."
No warning. Investigate and suspend them for 30 days. If the investigation proves harassment of any kind towards any streamer, fire them and sue the person for liability.
sadly they will never admit it's wrong... they have the power and don't care what the other say, exept when the backlash is too violent. the whole trouble is right now you don't have a lot of streaming platform that allows you to stream... UA-cam and twitch abuse them power both sadly...
At this point they're absolutely doing this to vtubers on purpose. It doesn't matter if it's just a few people in charge of bans or if it's endorsed by the company. But Twitch needs to grow tf up and either admit openly that they don't really want vtubers on their platform, or get themselves together and deal with the people who keep banning them for no good reasons aka personal preferences. Also probably nothing to do with why she got banned, but, like she said. What's the deal with half naked irl women who are gifted in bra size being allowed to be, well half naked. (I know IRL people can't control their size, but it's about the clothes). But a fully clothed short safe for work vtuber gets banned? MAy not related though, but I've seen some theories that twitch especially has it out for loli or loli like vtubers (loli, petite, and shortstacks). But that could be completely made up as well, or not. Who knows At the very least we've now learned that if you get unjustly banned you better have a big audience or go to a vtuber who does to get unbanned or nothing will happen.
I saw someone do a comparison between how often egirls and vtubers get banned, how severe the ban and reoffence rates. Twitch absolutly has some bias against vtubers. Egirls get banned more but are only punished for small periods of time and have a 92% reoffence rate. Vtubers don't get banned as much but they get slammed for long bans and usually don't reoffend, with a low reoffense rate.
Or twitch staff are in the pockets of the e girls. Most notably because they likely had relations when the most popular e girls where not of age. And now those e girls are adults. So they say "you will do as we say or we will go to the police and then expose you on every platform"
@@TheBasedDonHoly But then Zen got a warning, and she is friends with EvilToaster so maybe its someone else? Or maybe it was Evil Toaster who was protecting Vtubers from the other twitch staff (or just his friends) and after he got called out he either went mask off or just stopped protecting them. So now we are seeing the treatment shift from probable bias to obvious bias
@@revolvingworld2676 Heard that Zen unfollowed Toaster after he got exposed. Toaster even tried to tag Zen in one of his tweets defending the Knock feature, despite Zen being one of the big Vtubers who were vocal against the implementation.
"We think you might be suicidal so in order to help you out we removed your source of income for a month" This is like the joke of a suicide help line where the person on the phone helps talk you through tying the rope and writing the note.
okay yeah I'm calling it now, this is an attempt at making facedoxing a requirement leading up to the next stage of life on the internet, they're aware Vtubers are a group that can create content and monetise it without needing to have their faces known to the world and be essentially Anons creating content with more interactivity than PNGtubers That's one that should be looked into too, are PNGTubers being hit as well?
Good question, but a lot of small creators that don't want to have their face reveal, usually starts with a PNG or a cheap model, if they succeded, then they comission a vtuber model or a 3D model
On a similar note, have any of the Male VTubers gotten hit by these 'random' attacks? I know they aren't anywhere near as prevalent as women, but a lack of targeting would show that there is a Gender Bias by the Admins as well, which could be used in evidence against them...
The biggest issue with Twitch AND youtube is the gross inconsistency when it comes to properly enforcing a fair and equal term of service the automated systems sadly mostly work on a " fire first, and worry about the mess later " kind of deal.
Imagine if this happened to someone who was genuinely teetering on the edge of an attempt and literally being punished for being sad on stream is what actually pushes them over the edge. Twitch would literally have blood in their hands.
This is not really a unique Twitch problem I think nor exclusive to VTubers. All of the big platforms have absolutely disgusting moderation and rule standards that they selectively choose to enforce whenever it is convenient for them to do so.
It's certainly should be alarming for every streamer due to the arbitrariness of it all, but it is true that in this round of nonsense vtubers are being targeted.
Not only all platforms but all big companies. In my expirience once a company gets big enough that they have big enough share of the market they can and will start gutting down on customer service, moderation and so on because they are in a position where that won't really affect anything. After all, if you are basically the only game in town then what are people gonna do? Well, some might not use your service but for those who do youre the only option so tough fucking luck. With twitch being basically the only streaming platform besides youtube and with no other platform being able to compete they have absolutely no reason to change anything, especially since streaming is a market to which it is really difficult to enter as a company since the upkeep of it is expensive as shit. So, unless a company manages to compete with twitch and youtube were stuck with this situation since neither company has any incentive to change their moderation systems at all.
Because, as well all know. actively alienating someone for an extended period, then taking a REALLY long time to reach out to them (via email of course), is the best possible way to protect someone you are afraid might harm themselves.
Reporting someone for self-harm is how people on reddit tell other people to end themselves passive-aggressively. I would almost take the ban as the mods doing the very same.
One of the many reasons I hate twitch and will never choose to use it for my own stuff, thank you Twitch team for strengthening this feeling towards you.
Twitch hates not being able to put sexy real life women on their front page to lure in normies. I don't think they, as a platform, actually hate vtubers but there could definitely be some admins out there who have it out for them. I hope Dan can get to the bottom of this and fix it where needed cause he has shown to like Vtubers in the form of streaming with some, like Filian, and making others, like MissLala Twitch ambassadors.
Gunrun should pressure Twitch to fire whichever admins are constantly banning Vtubers, he has the leverage and lawyers required to make it stop for good.
If gunrun did that, he should be ready to remove all Vshojo in Twitch or else if unsucceed, Twitch will target them one by one. If you are the Ceo of a company, would you risk it?
I'm not going to fall into the conspiracy side of to much in thinking Twitch just hates Vtubers but there is a clear case of some shenanigans going on with the reporting system. I watch a fair share of both and honestly things aren't to different between them at times when it comes to warnings and bans. I do suspect however a case of a weirder set of rules are being applied somewhere that Twitch needs to be clear about, because it is a feeling of not everything is being told. Be it also possible harassment groups are doing false flag reporting or the moderation system is over correcting and automated to an extreme fault. This talk also doubly applies to YT lately, just tired of this weird Fog of War that corpos want to have.
There's no need for "what if i was a small vtuber?", small vtubers who got perma banned already happen, we just don't know about it because.. they're small vtubers.
With how small the time window these "bannable offenses" happen, it has to be the work of a bot. That or it's some hate watcher reporting the stream the moment things like that happen. Whatever the case is, it's still the work on the moderation team that makes this happen. You'd also think the money Twitch makes with Vtubers would would convince them that they need to improve their system or at least make the person approving these bans that they're overdoing it.
"We want you to take care of yourself so we're going take away the way you take care of yourself and earn an income, plus your way of getting support by your community, for 30 days, good luck!" explain how that makes sense
I'm 1000% convinced it's mass reports from people who hate vtubers, particularly female ones, and the AI scans the vod and sees something kinda sorta similar to the report, so it gets hit with no manual review. Then when there's a controversy, they act like they were in the right to save face, because hiring more than a few real mods is "too expensive"
Yo, why aren’t there clips of what fallenshadow said, just quote tweets. Like good job for the report but I wanted to see clips on what landed her in hot water.
Typically a good idea to include direct evidence for viewers to judge, though in some cases that evidence will show otherwise (eg. J.K. Rowling's "homophobic" tweets which turn out to be a whole lot less homophobic than people say they are, and there's some videos that are basically clickbait that talk about how some streamers go around ruining other people's careers/lives but it turns out half of the evidence that person is supposedly "evil" is really just those people getting 'just deserts' for being assholes). Still very good to go back through the evidence to confirm statements while including them in the video though
ive been a small VTuber for over 5 years on Twitch... hearing that some of my friends or other VTubers could get targeted like this and maybe never be able to get help... It makes me wanna switch to YT... Twitch messed up... id rather switch to yt to protect what I and my community alr have been able to achive...
I'm starting to be convinced this is twitch "trying" to "fix" the more adult content on the site by targeting vtubers since alot of vtubers have had issues in the past. Problem is you can't 1. Target people's income out of nowhere without any or proper reasons 2. Just target one group of people when the issue is much MUCH larger than just vtubers
So how has twitch not been sued yet? Fallen shadow even said rhat twitch admitted there's a "second secret list of rules she's not allowed to see". If she has proof then that has to break a law right?
Twitch needs to be investigated and we all need to band together! I got a feeling the big VTubers are gonna do a class action lawsuit against Twitch for this!
this might sound a bit crazy, but maybe it's time for streamers to start some kind of union, and i mean a serious one. vtubers overall, especially the bigger indie ones, seem to be very well connected and there is comparably less drama than with other content creator communities. they might be able to pull it off, if some of the biggest names would take matters into their hands. the community has so many active and very dedicated viewers, i doubt twitch could ignore just ignore them, if they make a fuss.
This plus a few other occasions doesn't feel like it's all twitch. There has been a huge spike of people reporting vtubers and getting them deplatformed, but more so the ones that are "fringe" and easy to get. Taiga, Shadow, those two specifically were two know for being loli/shota like tubers. A few others have been getting got for "sexual activity", but like with Zen, aren't pushing the rule. They are getting modded for things that generally aren't against the rules, but to someone who tends to be maybe a bit more strict with the rules, will say "Oh, yea. I get you" and ban them. It's pretty nasty abuse of a system, but you can see exactly why they are getting banned. It's beacuse someone at twice is getting reports directly about people who just come close to lines, and that's enough for whoever is doing htis now
Im gonna be real that letter from twitch on why she was banned felt like a very veiled threat at shondo, basically telling her to go through with what they're implying. Made me so freaking mad bro.
Regular streamers can literally flash their audience, which includes plenty of underage kids, and get a slap on the wrist or sometimes not get punished at all. Vtubers just existing seems to piss off Twitch
I've recently decided to stop using Twitch altogether. I'm so sick of the double standards on Twitch and I don't want to spend any more time on a site that treats it's creators so poorly.
I find it funny that Ludwig (who is obviously not a VTuber) over on UA-cam can make a similar off remark about offing himself if the game he is playing doesn't go in his favour (Or something to that effect); UA-cam unlike Twitch, do not immediately resort to the ban hammer. It's definitely a silly Twitch overreaction and it's definitely targeted at VTubers. That, or they have trouble distinguishing self deprecating jokes from self deprecating actions and intentions. UA-cam seems to be the "safer" streaming platform. At the very least it seems to offer more career security as you won't get instantly banned for sarcasm or light amounts of dark humour. (They may demonetize the VOD though). Edit. I should add that this is not in anyway me saying action should be taken against Ludwig on UA-cam. I actually praise UA-cam for not jumping the proverbial gun on things like this. But, I realise it could come across as a complaint that someone like Ludwig seemingly doesn't encounter issues like this, which it is not. It was merely for comparisons sake.
This just makes me bummed VStream ended up going under. At this point vtubers really need a platform to themselves to be safe on. Maybe if these other big ones lost the income from those creators & their viewers, they’d understand how badly they’re fucking up lol
I knew you'd do a video about it xD Idk what to think about what twitch did tbh; i feel like its like youtube, both are doing stupid things against vtubers for no specific reasons, youtube for example terminated ironmouse vod/main channels because of a hater who mass reported im sure and twitch is doing shitty things too but they're fine with nearly naked womens on their platform.. Crazy timeline we're living in.
Havent been a fan of twitch in a long time. I prefer YT because its easier to read chat in general. Would recommend to most streamers to consider streaming on both Twitch + YT just in case Twitch does do something like this to you and that way there is a back up plan.
Understand something here, Khyo: Even though Twitch is a garbage platform, UA-cam is still somehow even worse for the sole fact that the entire platform is 95% operated by AI Algorithms. Despite Twitch's overwhelming incompetence, it's still way better dealing with stupid people than it is dealing with AI Algorithms and Bots. That's the painful truth here. When you ask UA-cam for help on ANYTHING, there is a 50% chance that they will make the situation WORSE as a result. Don't believe me? Just as RTGame and Rimmy Down Under and both of them will tell you the same thing, because they're both victims of this happening to them. If both Twitch and UA-cam are too much for VTubers, then perhaps Kick, Rumble, and Odysee will be better off for them, and would help those platforms grow more.
Trouble is, those platforms don't necessarily have that wide enough an audience for people to know about them. Kick I've heard about and not in a good way (although the same stuff could happen on Twitch and I just don't know about it). Rumble I've never heard of and I don't know when the last time I opened my Odysee account was, definitely not for a few years. One idea I had just now was for groups of vtubers to try things like get air time on more "traditional" media types, such as radio. Not much difference between a podcast on Twitch/YT and a radio show asking people to send messages in, just the messages are much more filterable.
Yeah... This is no coincidence anymore, also UA-cam banning Ironmouse VOD channel... Definetly both plattforms has been targeting vtubers from a while, now, all this is sudden
It's things like these are why we need to support competition to Twitch. If we can have UA-cam and Twitch Vtubers to go on an Exodus to another platform, that would be a lot better than to live with the abusive relationship.
Are we not going to talk about the sexism here? It’s actually fairly common for women to be short and have high voices…it’s like one of the most common defining traits of being a woman. Twitch will ban you if you don’t meet their body and voice requirements, specifically, if you’re not the type of woman they approve of? Is that standard that you want set? Twitch banning you based on what they think of your body?
Another prime example of twitch being biased against vtubers, they hold events every few months and show case upcoming or popular streamers with a little footage from their streams to help promote them. I kept an eye on the showcases to see if any patterns formed. Typically out of 8 chosen, 3 are male, 5 are female, 1 might be a vtuber. The last two groups of 8 did not have any vtubers at all and out of curious interest, one group of 8 had all the females as blonde with red lipstick. They were really pulling a really specific type that month. But yeah I do not expect to see any future vtuber listings. I suspected it had something to do with real camera footage is easy to capture big reactions from streamers where as they maybe don't know what to look for or what's interesting with vtubers reactions since it's very personalised. That or there's issues with using footage of the vtuber model artworks unlike cam streamers. Something like we agreed to our likeness being used to promote but art may have licensing issues maybe
Can’t wait for the full mask off meltdown that’s sure to come out of this one. Shadow and Zen aren’t small streamers so I imagine some big names are about to have problems before this gets dealt with.
UA-cam os becoming more like Twitch. They removed Taiga. Removed Iron Mouse's OFFICIAL Clip Channel. An if they can go after Iron Mouse, they can go after ANYONE!!!
Whoever banned her wanted to exploit what they thought was a moment of weakness and thought this might be what pushed her over the edge. Whoever did it wanted her to attempt...
Vtubers should be held to a higher standard. Cartoons attract children. Adult-themed cartoons is like selling Skittles-flavored cigarettes. You know what you are doing, everyone knows, we're not stupid. Its just plain creepy and weird.
I can in a way understand their bias against vtubers, unlike IRL streamers, vtubers have a much wider control on how lewd their model may appear. HOWEVER, what I absolutely hate is their unwillingness to just outride say so and the bullshit they make up to try to de-platform vtubers They are trying to have their cake and eat it too
Agressive reports have to be a part of it. It is my conjecture, but it's something some people do recreationally, and its the nature of businesses to weigh the damage of report brigades over the value of doing business as usual. FS is a higher level target of these because there are people who want to be Inquisitors finding evil in her fan demographic and are disappointed when it turns out to be all in their head. Unfortunately, there is almost no defense for this. Get popular enough to counterbrigade.
Twitch doesn't like cute and funny vtubers like Shondo but are totally ok with barely clothed women on their platform.
@@MauseDays If the CEO and staff did stuff with young girls they NEED TO GET EXPOSED FOR IT!!
@@MauseDaysyou do realize that’s under serious grounds for investigation on both sides right? One for exploitation and the other for blackmail, libel and slander against the competition.
of course twitch would be okay with that. those girls make twitch bank and the CEO watches those streamers too.
@@SoulAtParadise cus booba meta is powerful and great
Not to mention that they have the balls to delete past videos from steamers (not just the vtubers) for no reason. Even when it’s a harmless stream.
First me then shadow then zen smh
Twitch is shit
I suggest you seriously consider a class action discrimination suit.
She did get a warning sent to her so it’s very probable.
Clotho got hit too
And it's distressing to see yall go crawling back to twitch
Don't you think it's kinda sus that the only vtubers who distanced themselves by unfollowing EvilToaster since it came out that he's a creep are the only ones being banned/warned.
I remember that time when they allowed non-vtubers to use the vtuber tag. Yes, Twitch has a bias against vtubers. Hell, they (Twitch) allow non-vtubers to wear swimsuits yet will ban or warn any vtuber that does it. I remember when Shylilly was in trouble despite her bikini/swimsuit not being any different than the in real life streamers. Classic do as I say from my point of view attitude from Twitch.
*still allow
do as I say, not as I do
@@MauseDays That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
The way Twitch unfairly treats vtubers is why I don’t use Twitch
Same here. I watch streamers vods on their vod channels, but I'll still use my prime sub to support them
And it's kinda funny considering that the co-founder of twitch runs a vtuber company I know this changes nothing but still
But then you have UA-cam who nukes ASMR vtubers.
@@jem_lucinamain3777 Well their just nuking asmr in general. Thats why most asmr youtubers are just doing it on twitch now
Funny given how youtube is treating them right now unless they're part of a youtube only company. Wouldn't be surprised if vtubers in general are in trouble.
So you can have sex on twitch and get a 3 day ban.
But if you’re a vtuber just GG go next
"We're concerned about your mental health, so we shut down your source of income. That should help." 🙃
Why is that even a decision that Twitch makes for her? It's so stupid 🙄
A change in twitch moderation is severely overdue, there is clearly some biased, borderline malicious people currently in admin positions
I've said it before, I will repeat it again. Twitch has historically always been relatively anti anime, long before it was taken over by the onlyfans-advertising streamers and the new reputation of the administration and moderators of Twitch being the biggest simps of these women. Add that VTubers are the great force that is directly eating the market of these women and the mod simps and their already existing history of aggression towards anime related content and you get an abuse of power.
That part, about how Twitch had a history of being hostile towards anime related content, is important in regards to how things have grown over time with Twitch. Sure, not everyone who works at Twitch hates it, but enough in the driving seat has issues with it that have caused a very uneven application of things such as prohibited material on Twitch. The clearest example of that is to just look at the Prohibited Games list. If it has an Anime aesthetic, it has a higher likelihood to be banned than if it was hyper realistic.
Its worse. Im convinced that. twitch staff are in the pockets of the e girls. Most notably because they likely had relations when the most popular e girls where not of age. And now those e girls are adults. So they say "you will do as we say or we will go to the police and then expose you on every platform"
Proper reply from twitch: "The staff who banned you without enough evidence has been warned and suspended for 30 days. If this happened again, this person will be permanently removed as part of our team. We apologize for the inconvenience and will ensure this wont happen again."
No warning. Investigate and suspend them for 30 days. If the investigation proves harassment of any kind towards any streamer, fire them and sue the person for liability.
sadly they will never admit it's wrong... they have the power and don't care what the other say, exept when the backlash is too violent.
the whole trouble is right now you don't have a lot of streaming platform that allows you to stream... UA-cam and twitch abuse them power both sadly...
They probably got promoted
Vox Akuma: there is no favoritism in NIJISANJI.
What’s next?
Pokimane or DovealoveVT saying there is no sexism in Twitch!?
My Child welcome to the Internet of West Platforms
At this point they're absolutely doing this to vtubers on purpose. It doesn't matter if it's just a few people in charge of bans or if it's endorsed by the company. But Twitch needs to grow tf up and either admit openly that they don't really want vtubers on their platform, or get themselves together and deal with the people who keep banning them for no good reasons aka personal preferences.
Also probably nothing to do with why she got banned, but, like she said. What's the deal with half naked irl women who are gifted in bra size being
allowed to be, well half naked. (I know IRL people can't control their size, but it's about the clothes). But a fully clothed short safe for work vtuber gets banned?
MAy not related though, but I've seen some theories that twitch especially has it out for loli or loli like vtubers (loli, petite, and shortstacks). But that could be completely made up as well, or not. Who knows
At the very least we've now learned that if you get unjustly banned you better have a big audience or go to a vtuber who does to get unbanned or nothing will happen.
I saw someone do a comparison between how often egirls and vtubers get banned, how severe the ban and reoffence rates.
Twitch absolutly has some bias against vtubers. Egirls get banned more but are only punished for small periods of time and have a 92% reoffence rate.
Vtubers don't get banned as much but they get slammed for long bans and usually don't reoffend, with a low reoffense rate.
And now Zentreya's got a Warning for "Sexual Conduct", LMAOOOOO!
Like out of all people, the toaster is who it hits
Someone at twitch has a huge grudge against vtubers since a lot of these are small things that cause them to be banned for an entire month
Or twitch staff are in the pockets of the e girls. Most notably because they likely had relations when the most popular e girls where not of age. And now those e girls are adults. So they say "you will do as we say or we will go to the police and then expose you on every platform"
Corrupt moderation abusing power or is abusing power on behalf of egirls who don't like the competition.
Sounds like Evil Toaster since he got called out.
@@TheBasedDonHoly
But then Zen got a warning, and she is friends with EvilToaster so maybe its someone else?
Or maybe it was Evil Toaster who was protecting Vtubers from the other twitch staff (or just his friends) and after he got called out he either went mask off or just stopped protecting them. So now we are seeing the treatment shift from probable bias to obvious bias
@@revolvingworld2676 Heard that Zen unfollowed Toaster after he got exposed. Toaster even tried to tag Zen in one of his tweets defending the Knock feature, despite Zen being one of the big Vtubers who were vocal against the implementation.
"We think you might be suicidal so in order to help you out we removed your source of income for a month"
This is like the joke of a suicide help line where the person on the phone helps talk you through tying the rope and writing the note.
okay yeah I'm calling it now, this is an attempt at making facedoxing a requirement leading up to the next stage of life on the internet, they're aware Vtubers are a group that can create content and monetise it without needing to have their faces known to the world and be essentially Anons creating content with more interactivity than PNGtubers
That's one that should be looked into too, are PNGTubers being hit as well?
PNGtuber here, I haven't gotten anything thrown my way yet. But I am legitimately scared
Good question, but a lot of small creators that don't want to have their face reveal, usually starts with a PNG or a cheap model, if they succeded, then they comission a vtuber model or a 3D model
On a similar note, have any of the Male VTubers gotten hit by these 'random' attacks? I know they aren't anywhere near as prevalent as women, but a lack of targeting would show that there is a Gender Bias by the Admins as well, which could be used in evidence against them...
The biggest issue with Twitch AND youtube is the gross inconsistency when it comes to properly enforcing a fair and equal term of service
the automated systems sadly mostly work on a " fire first, and worry about the mess later " kind of deal.
Imagine if this happened to someone who was genuinely teetering on the edge of an attempt and literally being punished for being sad on stream is what actually pushes them over the edge. Twitch would literally have blood in their hands.
This is not really a unique Twitch problem I think nor exclusive to VTubers. All of the big platforms have absolutely disgusting moderation and rule standards that they selectively choose to enforce whenever it is convenient for them to do so.
Arbitrary rules arbitrarily enforced.
It's certainly should be alarming for every streamer due to the arbitrariness of it all, but it is true that in this round of nonsense vtubers are being targeted.
Not only all platforms but all big companies. In my expirience once a company gets big enough that they have big enough share of the market they can and will start gutting down on customer service, moderation and so on because they are in a position where that won't really affect anything. After all, if you are basically the only game in town then what are people gonna do? Well, some might not use your service but for those who do youre the only option so tough fucking luck. With twitch being basically the only streaming platform besides youtube and with no other platform being able to compete they have absolutely no reason to change anything, especially since streaming is a market to which it is really difficult to enter as a company since the upkeep of it is expensive as shit. So, unless a company manages to compete with twitch and youtube were stuck with this situation since neither company has any incentive to change their moderation systems at all.
You're right but at least specifically for twitch, the punishments vs offense (if any) is so disproportionate especially when compared to non-vtubers
Because, as well all know. actively alienating someone for an extended period, then taking a REALLY long time to reach out to them (via email of course), is the best possible way to protect someone you are afraid might harm themselves.
Reporting someone for self-harm is how people on reddit tell other people to end themselves passive-aggressively. I would almost take the ban as the mods doing the very same.
One point may be a coincidence, maybe two, but three points or more form a line and this one is actually drawing a detailed arrow.
One of the many reasons I hate twitch and will never choose to use it for my own stuff, thank you Twitch team for strengthening this feeling towards you.
Twitch hates not being able to put sexy real life women on their front page to lure in normies.
I don't think they, as a platform, actually hate vtubers but there could definitely be some admins out there who have it out for them.
I hope Dan can get to the bottom of this and fix it where needed cause he has shown to like Vtubers in the form of streaming with some, like Filian, and making others, like MissLala Twitch ambassadors.
If it's not UA-cam, it's Twitch, and vice versa. No platform is safe for Vtubers these days.
Yes!! If they can REMOVE Iron Mouse, then they can remove ANYONE!! Like a Top Name & Face for VTubers with a Corp is NOT safe,then NOBODY is safe!!😢
Its somthing new every week good lord 😂
Gunrun should pressure Twitch to fire whichever admins are constantly banning Vtubers, he has the leverage and lawyers required to make it stop for good.
Its all of twitch employees not just a couple rogue admins. Twitch has been that way for a long time and do not care in the slightest.
Remember that twitch is owned by amazon. Bezos has way more laywers
If gunrun did that, he should be ready to remove all Vshojo in Twitch or else if unsucceed, Twitch will target them one by one. If you are the Ceo of a company, would you risk it?
Vshojo is great and all but I don't think they have that much pull on twitch.
I'm not going to fall into the conspiracy side of to much in thinking Twitch just hates Vtubers but there is a clear case of some shenanigans going on with the reporting system. I watch a fair share of both and honestly things aren't to different between them at times when it comes to warnings and bans. I do suspect however a case of a weirder set of rules are being applied somewhere that Twitch needs to be clear about, because it is a feeling of not everything is being told.
Be it also possible harassment groups are doing false flag reporting or the moderation system is over correcting and automated to an extreme fault. This talk also doubly applies to YT lately, just tired of this weird Fog of War that corpos want to have.
“We’re concerned for you… here’s a 30 day ban” = corpo speak for “please die off-stream so we don’t have to deal with it”
There's no need for "what if i was a small vtuber?", small vtubers who got perma banned already happen, we just don't know about it because.. they're small vtubers.
With how small the time window these "bannable offenses" happen, it has to be the work of a bot. That or it's some hate watcher reporting the stream the moment things like that happen. Whatever the case is, it's still the work on the moderation team that makes this happen.
You'd also think the money Twitch makes with Vtubers would would convince them that they need to improve their system or at least make the person approving these bans that they're overdoing it.
Look ma' im on the TV
It’s insane. If they don’t want vtubers just say so. I wish her the best and hope this is resolved soon.
"We want you to take care of yourself so we're going take away the way you take care of yourself and earn an income, plus your way of getting support by your community, for 30 days, good luck!" explain how that makes sense
"is twitch biased" is the pope christian
No, he’s Christian 👀
@@Khyo you saw nothing
I'm 1000% convinced it's mass reports from people who hate vtubers, particularly female ones, and the AI scans the vod and sees something kinda sorta similar to the report, so it gets hit with no manual review. Then when there's a controversy, they act like they were in the right to save face, because hiring more than a few real mods is "too expensive"
Yo, why aren’t there clips of what fallenshadow said, just quote tweets. Like good job for the report but I wanted to see clips on what landed her in hot water.
I honestly didn’t think to put any in the video. Will keep that in mind for the next video 🙏
Typically a good idea to include direct evidence for viewers to judge, though in some cases that evidence will show otherwise (eg. J.K. Rowling's "homophobic" tweets which turn out to be a whole lot less homophobic than people say they are, and there's some videos that are basically clickbait that talk about how some streamers go around ruining other people's careers/lives but it turns out half of the evidence that person is supposedly "evil" is really just those people getting 'just deserts' for being assholes). Still very good to go back through the evidence to confirm statements while including them in the video though
Maybe the VOD taken down due to the "bannable" content?
ive been a small VTuber for over 5 years on Twitch...
hearing that some of my friends or other VTubers could get targeted like this and maybe never be able to get help... It makes me wanna switch to YT...
Twitch messed up... id rather switch to yt to protect what I and my community alr have been able to achive...
That admin is out for Shondo in particular.
I'm starting to be convinced this is twitch "trying" to "fix" the more adult content on the site by targeting vtubers since alot of vtubers have had issues in the past. Problem is you can't
1. Target people's income out of nowhere without any or proper reasons
2. Just target one group of people when the issue is much MUCH larger than just vtubers
Just sue Twitch, we don't have to tolerate this.
Shondos only sin is being too adorable
And BASED AS FUK!!
So how has twitch not been sued yet? Fallen shadow even said rhat twitch admitted there's a "second secret list of rules she's not allowed to see". If she has proof then that has to break a law right?
Just another reminder of why I don't use Twitch, they literally keep banning the only people I'd care to watch.
Twitch needs to be investigated and we all need to band together! I got a feeling the big VTubers are gonna do a class action lawsuit against Twitch for this!
Mr President a second ban has hit the Shondo
Sounds like what's going on currently in the gaming community as well with black myth wukong Warhammer and stellar blade
UA-cam is following the same footsteps. There just isnt a popular platform for vtubers anymore and it's going to get worse.
this might sound a bit crazy, but maybe it's time for streamers to start some kind of union, and i mean a serious one.
vtubers overall, especially the bigger indie ones, seem to be very well connected and there is comparably less drama than with other content creator communities.
they might be able to pull it off, if some of the biggest names would take matters into their hands.
the community has so many active and very dedicated viewers, i doubt twitch could ignore just ignore them, if they make a fuss.
Twitch have a hate boner for Vtubers
and would rather tell you to watch the lord of the rings spinoff they cherished so much, because its amazon
This plus a few other occasions doesn't feel like it's all twitch. There has been a huge spike of people reporting vtubers and getting them deplatformed, but more so the ones that are "fringe" and easy to get. Taiga, Shadow, those two specifically were two know for being loli/shota like tubers. A few others have been getting got for "sexual activity", but like with Zen, aren't pushing the rule. They are getting modded for things that generally aren't against the rules, but to someone who tends to be maybe a bit more strict with the rules, will say "Oh, yea. I get you" and ban them. It's pretty nasty abuse of a system, but you can see exactly why they are getting banned. It's beacuse someone at twice is getting reports directly about people who just come close to lines, and that's enough for whoever is doing htis now
Corpo hypocrisy never fails to amaze me
To paraphrase one of my favorite UA-camrs: "Twitch looks at Vtubers like beavers look at running water. Absolutely f***ing not, can't have it"
They don’t know when to quit do they.
Twitch and UA-cam competing who hate vtubers the most.
Someone needs to start a class action lawsuit involving as many vtubers as possible against Twitch for discrimination against vtubers, and soon!
Omg Twitch destroy Vtubers I can’t believe what I saw and hear man and so sad and horrible
Im gonna be real that letter from twitch on why she was banned felt like a very veiled threat at shondo, basically telling her to go through with what they're implying. Made me so freaking mad bro.
Regular streamers can literally flash their audience, which includes plenty of underage kids, and get a slap on the wrist or sometimes not get punished at all. Vtubers just existing seems to piss off Twitch
I've recently decided to stop using Twitch altogether. I'm so sick of the double standards on Twitch and I don't want to spend any more time on a site that treats it's creators so poorly.
What's crazy is that twitch can "just decide" that you need a mental health break is crazy.
Bruh first taiga, then shadow then fefe and now zen. This needs to go to ACTUAL NEWS. ABC News.
I find it funny that Ludwig (who is obviously not a VTuber) over on UA-cam can make a similar off remark about offing himself if the game he is playing doesn't go in his favour (Or something to that effect); UA-cam unlike Twitch, do not immediately resort to the ban hammer.
It's definitely a silly Twitch overreaction and it's definitely targeted at VTubers. That, or they have trouble distinguishing self deprecating jokes from self deprecating actions and intentions.
UA-cam seems to be the "safer" streaming platform. At the very least it seems to offer more career security as you won't get instantly banned for sarcasm or light amounts of dark humour. (They may demonetize the VOD though).
Edit. I should add that this is not in anyway me saying action should be taken against Ludwig on UA-cam. I actually praise UA-cam for not jumping the proverbial gun on things like this. But, I realise it could come across as a complaint that someone like Ludwig seemingly doesn't encounter issues like this, which it is not. It was merely for comparisons sake.
This just makes me bummed VStream ended up going under. At this point vtubers really need a platform to themselves to be safe on. Maybe if these other big ones lost the income from those creators & their viewers, they’d understand how badly they’re fucking up lol
first Taiga, now Shondo...
I knew you'd do a video about it xD
Idk what to think about what twitch did tbh; i feel like its like youtube, both are doing stupid things against vtubers for no specific reasons, youtube for example terminated ironmouse vod/main channels because of a hater who mass reported im sure
and twitch is doing shitty things too but they're fine with nearly naked womens on their platform..
Crazy timeline we're living in.
Havent been a fan of twitch in a long time. I prefer YT because its easier to read chat in general.
Would recommend to most streamers to consider streaming on both Twitch + YT just in case Twitch does do something like this to you and that way there is a back up plan.
Understand something here, Khyo:
Even though Twitch is a garbage platform, UA-cam is still somehow even worse for the sole fact that the entire platform is 95% operated by AI Algorithms.
Despite Twitch's overwhelming incompetence, it's still way better dealing with stupid people than it is dealing with AI Algorithms and Bots. That's the painful truth here.
When you ask UA-cam for help on ANYTHING, there is a 50% chance that they will make the situation WORSE as a result.
Don't believe me? Just as RTGame and Rimmy Down Under and both of them will tell you the same thing, because they're both victims of this happening to them.
If both Twitch and UA-cam are too much for VTubers, then perhaps Kick, Rumble, and Odysee will be better off for them, and would help those platforms grow more.
Trouble is, those platforms don't necessarily have that wide enough an audience for people to know about them. Kick I've heard about and not in a good way (although the same stuff could happen on Twitch and I just don't know about it). Rumble I've never heard of and I don't know when the last time I opened my Odysee account was, definitely not for a few years.
One idea I had just now was for groups of vtubers to try things like get air time on more "traditional" media types, such as radio. Not much difference between a podcast on Twitch/YT and a radio show asking people to send messages in, just the messages are much more filterable.
I guess that's the pros and cons of the two platforms that are outlined, mostly by the moderation being AI or not ( or at least not completely AI )
Twitch simps being twitch simps
Theyre afraid because vtubers are bigger than their twitchthots
Yeah... This is no coincidence anymore, also UA-cam banning Ironmouse VOD channel... Definetly both plattforms has been targeting vtubers from a while, now, all this is sudden
I doubt they've actually sent that email self care excuse to any other streamer.
if twitch keeps this up,
they getting the concord treatment
Half-baked twitch response
continue to fight the backlash till they give in completely
It's things like these are why we need to support competition to Twitch. If we can have UA-cam and Twitch Vtubers to go on an Exodus to another platform, that would be a lot better than to live with the abusive relationship.
Does khyo have a twitch account because I’m hoping he doesn’t have the same problem in this case (headpats khyo👋)
I do have an account but I don’t stream there anymore
@@Khyo oh thank god 😮💨😌
This is 2 days old, Shondo got her twitch back after about 1day and 16hr of being banned
Are we not going to talk about the sexism here? It’s actually fairly common for women to be short and have high voices…it’s like one of the most common defining traits of being a woman.
Twitch will ban you if you don’t meet their body and voice requirements, specifically, if you’re not the type of woman they approve of? Is that standard that you want set? Twitch banning you based on what they think of your body?
If they do this to Nerissa and a few other Vtubers that i watch, then Twitch has completely gone strict like.... LITERALLY
Hasn't something similar been happening here on Yt too?
Another prime example of twitch being biased against vtubers, they hold events every few months and show case upcoming or popular streamers with a little footage from their streams to help promote them. I kept an eye on the showcases to see if any patterns formed. Typically out of 8 chosen, 3 are male, 5 are female, 1 might be a vtuber. The last two groups of 8 did not have any vtubers at all and out of curious interest, one group of 8 had all the females as blonde with red lipstick. They were really pulling a really specific type that month. But yeah I do not expect to see any future vtuber listings. I suspected it had something to do with real camera footage is easy to capture big reactions from streamers where as they maybe don't know what to look for or what's interesting with vtubers reactions since it's very personalised. That or there's issues with using footage of the vtuber model artworks unlike cam streamers. Something like we agreed to our likeness being used to promote but art may have licensing issues maybe
Thank you for the video, have a nice day.
Like if twitch wasn't a thrashy enough platform, at least they should have the balls to admit they don't want/like vtubers
Can’t wait for the full mask off meltdown that’s sure to come out of this one. Shadow and Zen aren’t small streamers so I imagine some big names are about to have problems before this gets dealt with.
UA-cam os becoming more like Twitch. They removed Taiga. Removed Iron Mouse's OFFICIAL Clip Channel. An if they can go after Iron Mouse, they can go after ANYONE!!!
Whoever banned her wanted to exploit what they thought was a moment of weakness and thought this might be what pushed her over the edge. Whoever did it wanted her to attempt...
Might as well get Elon to buy twitch too, and do the same thing he did with twiiter "do whatever you want, I don't care"
oh you sweet summer child.
UA-cam is doing the same thing
Vtubers should be held to a higher standard. Cartoons attract children. Adult-themed cartoons is like selling Skittles-flavored cigarettes. You know what you are doing, everyone knows, we're not stupid. Its just plain creepy and weird.
They got FeFe too
I can in a way understand their bias against vtubers, unlike IRL streamers, vtubers have a much wider control on how lewd their model may appear.
HOWEVER, what I absolutely hate is their unwillingness to just outride say so and the bullshit they make up to try to de-platform vtubers
They are trying to have their cake and eat it too
"Flesh tubers"
Shondo just needs to had two watermelons in a bikini at the corner of the screen that say "this makes it okay according to the twitch frontpage"
Even Loli-con/Shota-con Vtubers should be allowed to make adult content 😤 that is if said Vtubers are 18 and up; like Riro Ron said, "no minors"
Is it possible/feasible to sue twitch/youtube for workplace harassment or adult oriented content on an all ages accessible app?
make a Vtuber union!
Lwitch. I am considering deleting my Twitch account.
I think its funny how twitch literally discourages ppl from using the platform and is wondering y ppl leave for kick or yt
Man, seeing this makes me wonder if twitch is even worth it anymore to stream on?
Agressive reports have to be a part of it. It is my conjecture, but it's something some people do recreationally, and its the nature of businesses to weigh the damage of report brigades over the value of doing business as usual. FS is a higher level target of these because there are people who want to be Inquisitors finding evil in her fan demographic and are disappointed when it turns out to be all in their head.
Unfortunately, there is almost no defense for this. Get popular enough to counterbrigade.
At this point how about someone making a platform for Vtubers only. I don't really know how and the money but just a suggestion. 😂😂😂