women's rights for women. I don't recognise men as women. I do not accept being qualified by 'cis' as this is offensive to women. Thank you Kellie for all you said.
@@davidadiwego4608 Social roles and conventions were automatic and never in question throughout 1st and 2nd wave generally speaking, only the choice for marriage, children and to earn a living. Opinions vary, but generally speaking social roles, conventions were never rejected until perhaps recently.
@@davidadiwego4608 are you saying you think it is right that women stay at home, to have babies, do all the traditional home duties, have no rights, are not allowed to vote, work or be educated and be seen as sexual objects with no say on how it makes them feel? that i believe was what the original femisnists were fighting about.......
Thank you! Was completely horrified that this so called “human rights activist” seemed to have absolutely no concern for the human rights and safety of women and girls. Just another example of the utter misogyny of the extreme trans movement and their supporters. There is absolutely no reason why women should have to sacrifice their rights in order that transgender people can acquire theirs.
It was worse than that. He argued that men who are sexual deviants who have been arrested and prosecuted for sexually abusing women in women's spaces should be allowed back into women's spaces after they have been imprisoned if they are deemed to have reformed. Everyone deserves a second chance to offend.
@bobby sternlicht Keen is speaking from a woman’s perspective. And she is speak for, in my humble opinion as a woman, the majority. If trans people want safe spaces, then they should be fighting for their own, not to invade ours. And men fighting against women, when it doesn’t affect them AT ALL, is absolutely laughable.
This is the one and only time I will tell a man he has no right to an opinion! How dare you, Peter, tell me that you think it's okay that I have to share a toilet with a man? How dare you tell us how to feel about having someone biologically different and generally stronger using a space set out for women?
Just an add on, thank you to all the lovely darling men who are standing up for their daughters, wives, mothers and sisters in the comments, we need you and appreciate you ❤️
You have probably shared a public loo where a trans woman has been there and not realised … the majority of trans women are not a threat and just go there too pee!
@@freyjakat9217 I very likely have, and contrary to how it may come across there are some trans women out there that I adore and would not have a problem sharing space with, but my opinion doesn't come above that of other women, older ladies and little girls who may not feel the same. There are those out there who will and are using the rule softening to be a threat, and we can't allow this to progress further.
Why is the media promoting that some governing body dictate the rules of a society that would regulate itself? . ; We take issue with those who make demands without any intention of respecting the group.
Well, you're not that smart to begin with. I'm actually impartial on this issue but Peter's argument are indeed compelling. I don't care about dictionary definitions, I care about scientific data. Peter repeatedly asked and pointed out the data which is the correct thing to do. Scientists only care about the data. If the data shows evidences of harm or advantage are almost negligible, then I'm quite convinced. Unless the data shows a sudden spike of trans athletes domination, I think Kelly doesn't have a leg to stand. As Peter pointed out, most elite athletes have biological features that are above normal.
@@simonclare100 A definition from which branch of science? You have to be specific here. Let me ask you also a simple question: define gravity for me. Depending on the scientific field that you're in, the definitions will differ. But it's explaining the same natural phenomena. In this case, we're talking about this natural phenomena called "gender identity" which is a mix of psychology and biology. Why does a trans woman define herself as a woman? At least from the papers I've read, there are biological markers that make them psychologically think this way. So, from a biologically-based-psychological point of view they can be defined as a woman but not from a strict biological point of view. You see the nuances here? On the other hand, how many research papers have you read?
@@kazearaki853 what utter nonsense, woman is defined by biology alone initially as a base line, if you can't define it from there you can't substantiate any 'theories' from that point. Start at the beginning, if you can't even do that the rest has no foundation
I can’t stress enough how important it is for women to have spaces exclusively for them. This was understood by our grandparents. For back in those days there were women’s only carriages on trains, waiting rooms on the platform marked for women only, separate women’s wards in hospital and times at the swimming baths that were solely for women. The Victorians and Edwardians knew the value of separating the sexes for the protection of women. How sad and tragic that this form of safeguarding no longer applies.
Women only spaces are a necessity. This debate is often centred around western trans women but women from the global south are often left out of the conversation. Caroline Criado Perez’s book ‘invisible women’ touches on how gender neutrality actually statistically harms women and girls and benefits men.
they also locked women up for hysteria. wouldn't let them vote or have jobs or their own money, and treated us like property (which we ourselves weren't allowed to own) please let's not act as if the past was somehow better for us, it absolutely was not
Even today there are women only train carriages in Japan. The trains are very full - so many people squished in together- and there was a real problem with some men opportunistically groping women or rubbing up on them.
@@comfymoder So are feminine gay men actually women? What about masculine lesbians? Are they men? Are feminine men more of a 'woman' than masculine women? This is sexist stereotype nonsense. Women = female.
@@community647 They are women if they transition to women because they feel better suited taking on a female role yes. Usually because they want to avoid the masculinisation of their body from testosterone. Everyone enforces sexist stereotypes because everyone has a gender identity and wants to fit some traditional ideal of femininity (or masculinity). This is just reality, if a man is very feminine and wants to be seen that way he has to conform to those ideals.
@@community647 To make the point clearer. You don't call a woman she because you have x ray vision to see whats in their underwear, you do it because they look like what you expect a woman to look like. If you ever met a passing transgender woman you would instinctively call her she because you yourself conform to sexist stereotypes of what women and men look like. And that's fine, everyone does that and thats why transfeminine people do their best to conform to that standard to be accepted.
Absolutely agree with Kelly. Interesting that men like Peter appears in charge of what women should or should not accept. He denies biological reality and the biological advantage that men have in sport.
@@manchegocheese997 Right? I mean he deprived a woman of an olympic spot, so there's that. I also think he may have lost on purpose but we all know men are not as strong emotionally as women, so he could have just folded under the pressure of having to pretend to be a woman for all the world to see while trying to steal the spotlight.
Why did Peter get so much airtime? It was extraordinary and definitely unbalanced, he got the first word and the last word on everything! And he speaks lies, Hubbard lost because he was old and he was mediocre to begin with, once they put up a young man who is an elite athlete the women will not stand a chance. Many disingenuous arguments here Peter.
@@savewomenssportaustralasia2730 I may be wrong, but I think that Hubbard deliberately lost so that in the future we will be told "look, transwomen don't have an advantage over women, so they are allowed to compete in all sports against women". He was probably paid well to fail.
Laurel Hubbard is almost double the average age of the lifters he competed against, which is ancient in weightlifting. He was a very average male weightlifter and decided to compete as a female and is now able to stand on the stage as an elite, world class Olympian. If that doesn't show what difference there is between the sexes, then I don't know what to say. The woman whose spot he took is the one I feel sorry for. What a complete joke.
Laurel Hubbard was beaten by several cis women weight-lifters, though. If she'd have had a physical advantage over the other competitors she would have won.
@@katie2858 My point being that a lifter, way beyond their physical peak, who retired through injury as a male and took years out, decided to start lifting again against females and was able to compete at a World class level and push out the best female lifter in new Zealand, who is half the age and at the peak of her career. This is now acceptable in the Olympics, so imagine if a decent male lifter, in their prime, decided to compete against women. Even after a year of hormone blockers, etc. It is going to be a joke and it will be women that suffer. I am labelled as transphobic for having that view, but I really don't care what someone chooses to do with their lives, as long as it doesn't impact detrimentally on others. I would say I champion fairness, so when I see where this is destined to go over the next 20 years, then women are going to be impacted detrimentally. We haven't seen anything, yet.
Notice at 8.08 Peter Tatchell brings in the word "feminist" instead of saying "women," presumably as a way of obscuring the fact that it is men and women being discussed, not ideological subsets. This debate usually seems to involve throwing in many red herrings to hide reality. When this fad is "history" the people of the future are going to have a lot of trouble understanding how it could have happened, just like I couldn't understand 16th and 17th century witch-burning for a long time. Now it is clear how such things can happen.
Kellie-Jay was pitch perfect. Peter just struggled to present a woke narrative and he was very wrong about mental health improvement in those who had transitioned.
Tatchell deliberately mis-represents the argument here. No-one is saying that trans people don't have rights. Most of us are just stating a fact by saying they are NOT biological women. If trans people want their own toilets and sports teams or whatever else then fine. Go ahead. Just don't pretend to be a biological woman. You are not.
Cowardice is called courage Men are called women Racism is called anti-racism Fascism is called anti-fascism Regressive is called progressive Opinions are called facts Facts are called hate Welcome to the West in 2021
@@craighart9278 - it means he is part of the LGBTQ+ community and that not everyone in that community shares the gender ideology. It means the organisation isn't representative for homosexual individuals. It is important to many homosexuals to say that out loud. Which is also the reason behind them making a new organisation, LGB alliance.
He can virtue signal, and has no wife or female children to worry about. Gay men are commonly extremely misogynistic. Not all of course. Some of the greatest feminist allies are gay men. Tatchell also doesn’t have to worry about being coerced into a sexual relationship with a trans identified man, because the ones who are attracted to men(very few) aren’t attracted to gay men. Gay men without compassion for women and children, like Peter, have absolutely nothing to lose when it comes to this issue.
The same narcissistic motives that led him to demand gay cruising rights in public parks! Not one thought for children & families exposed to this, and now he expects psychologically disturbed children and adults to act out their social gender fantasies with the support of all around them! Anything to avoid confronting their personal problems, just like he's avoiding confronting his.
His motive is keeping himself in the spotlight. Tatchell is a long-established attention-seeker. In old age he is keeping himself in the spotlight by presenting himself as a sagacious voice of reason. He is in fact a sad loner.
Watching Posie smash Tatchell's teeth in with verbal right hooks with her intellectual brass knuckles is a delight I've watched this several times through, and seeing Tatchell grovel in a ball of snot and tears is heartwarming. Go Posie!
I am a straight woman. Not only is Kellie extremely intelligent and 100% right, she’s also incredibly beautiful. Thank you Kelly for being our voice 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
He's going to simply stop debating her soon.. She's fully got his number EVERY time.. She's so sharp and concise.. All this talk about feminism and trans issues.?. That women right there is solid.. That to me is a strong women.. Super smart takes no prisoners..
Well, you're not that smart to begin with. I'm actually impartial on this issue but Peter's argument are indeed compelling. I don't care about dictionary definitions, I care about scientific data. Peter repeatedly asked and pointed out the data which is the correct thing to do. Scientists only care about the data. If the data shows evidences of harm or advantage are almost negligible, then I'm quite convinced. Unless the data shows a sudden spike of trans athletes domination, I think Kelly doesn't have a leg to stand. As Peter pointed out, most elite athletes have biological features that are above normal.
@kazearaki853 Stop kidding yourself. The science is in..., however, even without the science anyone with any common sense will know that every sport men outclass women. Men are males and will always be. Males, whatever they call themselves are males and there will always be an advantage.
Kellie 100% - Tatchell is just not with it. He seems to be unaware of the Kiera Bell/Tavistock clinic scandal - either that or he’s ignoring it because it’s inconvenient. Respect and support for trans people, but a trans woman is a man. Respect single sex spaces & maintain & extend women’s sex-based rights
@@dreamclaw00I was in a relationship a trans-woman their mental health went down after a procedure and this is not uncommon. (This person improved over time). Some recover, some regret it, and a few have no problems whatsoever. Making sweeping statements about transphobia does change these realities.
"Most trans women are not much different than other women" LOL, that should have come with a warning! I nearly choked on my chocolate almond milk, laughing so hard!
Maybe they feel threatened going into the gents dressed as women so they want to go into the women's,easier for them,they don't care how threatened women feel.
Cis-women an appalling term!!!!! I agree absolutely with Kelly. I am surprised and disappointed that Peter does not support womens right to their own safe spaces. Peter also denies the biological differences between male and female and the advantage this gives transgender males in sport. That is denying the obvious.
I truly dearest it with every fiber of my being!!!!! ❌🤨 ughh! Like trans women needs a prefix, biological women don’t! It’s completely absurd at this point! Pfft
Fallon Fox breaks woman's skull Peter Thatchell "trans women don't have a physical advantage over biological women" I think that woman with a broken skull would beg to differ mate'
The male track fellows who were ranked 300, went trans and won 14/15 state championships and broke 11 records, set by 8 women over 20 years. A fellow who went trans, and in first competition won every event and broke 3 records. Just samples of things to come.
"Most trans women aren't any different from most women." The sleight of hand here is that athletes don't represent most people. They represent the best athletically and most perseverent of people. Women's and Men's competitions were seperated because the best women can't compete with the best men at many competitions due to biological differences. If women don't have the women section to themselves then there may as well be no seperation in the first place.
Tough… the feminist left woke have trail blazed this nonsense , while THE RIGHT have been warning you about this for over a decade. And those on The Right were shouted down by woke leftist and labelled homophobic.
@@stephenking8505 you don't sound particularly willing to help with your response of "Tough...", maybe stop being so sanctimonious, and realise most women and girls aren't feminists, yet they're being harmed by this twisted ideology regardless.
@@apebass2215 I won't tolerate men beating women up and like I say your going to need us because the government aren't going to back down over this. Where's all your sjws at? Oh that's right they're OK with men beating women up.
@@stephenking8505 'my' sjws? I never had any sjws. I'm very much capable of standing up for the truth and biological reality, whereas you seem more concerned about scoring cheap political points that are ultimately meaningless.
@@cyclist68 anyone who refers to cleaning your own house, cooking your own food and looking after your own kids as 'unpaid labour' is a feminist. She just rejects the label, probably because a large proportion of the feminist movement have labelled her a "terf" and demonized her, so she's rejected them in turn.
Dissapointed Kelly was cut off after Peter was allowed a long diatribe, spouting feelings over facts, he is so wrong and ignores the danger to very young minds before they are mature enough to rationalise these issues
PT was interrupted by KJ as he spoke of his example of the Refuge where the staff voted and the users of the service voted to allow men who dress/'identify' as women to use the service. The host interrupted KJ and this was not explored fully. Allow debate and allow rational critiques of examples. Today if Isla Bryson or Barbie kardashian wanted to seek refuge claiming abuse, would the staff/service users vote on that, or have they set a precedent?
This guy actually claims trans women don't have an advantage. Look at the stats. Nearly all transwomen who enter women's sports dominate them. You have to be either thick or disingenuous to argue otherwise. Facts don't care about your feelings.
because they are very vocal about pushing laws that stop any critic and opposition to their erosion of gay and women's rights. this is a bad movement for lesbians/gay and women in general
they also have google/big pharma giving money into trans lobby groups that have been working very hard under the guise of LGBT- despite being homophobic
This is the man who campaigned to have the age of legal sex reduced to 12 years old. What else would you expect from him. He even uses anecdotes to try to prove his points.
@@Matty-man I remember reading it quite a few years ago and it was sickening. It didn't keep him off the TV though. It probably one of the reasons I gave up on watching that propaganda nachine 12 years ago.
Lord - what a windbag PT is. He was allowed almost twice as much time as Kellie-Jay to say not very much but oozed sanctimonious compassion. And what was that all about - droning on about the alternative Miss World - Kevin should have moved that one along. Totally irrelevant to the conversation. Kellie-Jay was clear, concise and I would have like to have heard more - especially countering PT's dismissal of the epidemic of destructive surgery on teens in the USA. He’s not doing his homework to find what is really going on. Keira Bell's case counters his assertion that it can't happen here. What about the disgusting “yeet those teets” slogan on a US surgeon's instagram. It’s beyond grim and deeply disturbing.
Well of course he was, he is a man. Even in a debate about women's rights, the male moderator looked ot the male for his alleged wisdom. LOL! We women know how this works.
@@groundcontrol436385 Don't need to worship me forever whiny misandrist; I don't care, and in fact, hope the lunacy continues to torment you. I will do nothing to help you. You reap what you sow lol
@@scotlandtheinsane3359 I thought you were 'stepping in to help'? Then someone said something you didn't like and you flounce off? I fail to see what help you could possibly offer. You appear to be unable to cope with a YT comments thread.
@@apebass2215 he isn't pretending it's what he believes, and he has every right to voice his views regardless as to whether you or I agree with him, what don't you get about that?
@@testudohorsfieldii7052 yes, he believes women don't exist. How can anyone promote women's rights if they don't know what women are? He has every right to his sexist beliefs, just like I have every right to disagree with him.
If you told me a decade or more ago that we would actually have to waste time trying to figure out if men pretending to be women are actually women, I wouldn't have believed you. And I had a pessimistic outlook on the intelligence of our species back then too. Obviously not pessimistic enough...
Doesn’t the prefix ‘trans’ demonstrate that a trans person is not really the sex they claim to be? A trans man or woman would just be called a man or woman, surely?
I think Peter needs to speak to the Tavistock clinic if he's under the illusion that it's "extremely difficult" for young children to be 'transgendered' in this country.
Peter, lost it when he tried to talk about trans in sport, he doesn't have any understanding of the physiological differences between the two sexes so talked about big women and small men.....
I don't mind calling Jack Jill but I don't have to accept he/she is a woman. There is more to being a woman than just appearance and that is all that a man who identifies as a woman is able to achieve, sometimes not very successfully.
Tatchell talks about female activists, which is a tiny minority of woman , as though they are more important than the majority of women who will disagree with him and the activists.
@@meatfeast335 , I don't know but find the letter he wrote to the Guardian called 'Tatchell on Sex With Children'. It's enough for me to discount his opinion on vulnerable groups, be it women or children, losing rights to less vulnerable groups.
Yes and that was in his published book. What's his private opinion is we can only guess. Edit: I made a statement I cannot back with evidence and so decided to remove it. I will say that I believe Tatchell was a close friend of another man who advocated something that is criminal and was imprisoned for that vile crime.
Yes, and he defended pedophilia in a letter to the Guardian. The gay rights movement has consistently advocated for the elimination of the age of consent since its inception, although they tend not to present that side of their agenda to the public. Tatchell is one of many.
Peter, like so many tra’s, needs to “educate himself”, as they are so fond of telling those of us who disagree with them. He claims to be oblivious to easily verifiable facts by saying he’s not aware of them, and “it won’t happen here” mentality. It’s happening everywhere Peter. We are watching with horror women’s rights being destroyed worldwide, while men like you are turning a wilfully blind eye.
When it comes to female sports . People born biologically male and transition generally have physical advantages over biological females , that's why 'trans women shouldn't compete and anyone using the fact that Laurel Hubbard lost, to try and prove that trans women don't have physical advantages over biological women would be like saying if one female athlete can be successful against male athletes in one event it proves biological men don't have a physical advantage over biological females as a group, which of course would be clearly untrue. Kellie Jay won this debate hands down
The only sport where a female couldn't possibly outplay a male is a skill only sport. So things like curling, archery etc Things that require you to be physically fit, then they have no chance
@@natsohigh5552, even in archery a male's upper body strength would be an advantage. Hubbard lifted more than 2x the weight previously so this loss was either deliberate or it was caused by some technical fault like failing to get the grip correctly or whatever it is called. Maybe Hubbard didn't talc enough - sweaty hands and all.
These advantages are well documented. Also, research has shown hormone treatments do very little to impact overall performance. Simply having a lower testosterone lever has no impact on many of the advantages that a male has.
@@mandysymons2142 but what makes you a female child?? As an intersex person (which I am) you could say I'm both Male and Female and I was born that way, so does that make me a female now and so a woman ????
The worrying aspect of this is that we are even having this conversation. If we can no longer agree on the definition of a man and a woman as being absolute all hope is lost on every other aspect of the human existence .
So, Peters friend has had no problems at her womens centre in 6 years.. OK Peter what is the context of that - 2 trans woman go there a year ? A week ? A day ? We need to give up thousands of years of fights for women's rights because Peters friend has had no trouble in 6 years. Typical woke attitude of "my friend cried therefore let's change the world " .
and he's wrong to state that men have to undergo rigorous examination of their intent. That's only if they want their genitalia removing. They just need to self identify to allow them access to women's prisons and hospital wards etc. Too much time given to PT with hardly any time allowed to Kellie!
To quote Peter: "No one is pressuring women to transition, it's about people making choices. I think in a free society, we should accept that and "live and let live"" Yeah, sure, they can make their choices, and they can transition, but they can also stick their sex-based spaces? Why can't Hubbard just compete in men's division? that doesn't exclude trans people.
I think he is just 100% misogynist. He apparently wants women to not be safe, he wants children to be available for adults in an adult way, he wants young girls to be ruined. His attitude to young people is frightening. That campaign yonliwer she if consent is behind him endorsing 12 yr old masectomies. The guy is full of ideas that are deluded and dangerous.
Tatchell doesn't seem to know what is actually happening, does he? Either that, or he is disingenuous. Horrible, especially, his attitude to girls, and his dismissal of women. His right to privacy, dignity and safety are not been eroded.
Laurel hubbard must have failed all of his lifts on purpose. There's videos of him easily lifting much heavier weight in training, than was lifted in the Olympics. The lifts he failed on could even be considered warm up sets for him, but he decided to fail. For what reason? It all sounds very fishy if you ask me.
Sorry, so in what world does this bloke have the authority to tell a woman that it's ok for her and her daughter's to get changed in the women's swimming pool changing rooms in front of a geezer in a skirt ffs
Ugh, nothing better than to hear a man mansplain woman’s rights. What the hell is this ideological nonsense and how do we return to something resembling normalcy.
Trans women using the bathrooms, etc, wasn’t a problem UNTIL it was decided that you can just “say” you “feel like a woman”, without any kind of evidence of transition, you’re not allowed to ask, and it’s demanded that people accept it. It makes it easier for people who are predatory, to be predators.
Laurel Hubbard took the place of a women in the Olympics and that is happening in America quite regularly. What happened at the Wi-Spa to women was dangerous and unethical.
There are no women in the Olympics anyway imo. According to what I've seen, the female presenting athletes are all men. The stories about trans in sports so called taking bio women's spades, are just them slowly exposing what's been hidden.
The opening statement reveals the absurdity of it all: "Peter, I believe that Kellie-Jay insists than transwomen are not female, where do you stand on that?" The fact that this is being framed in such a way that implies KJK is the outlier. How the hell is this even debatable among educated adult human beings? I know Kevin was trying to be impartial, but there is nothing to be impartial about. Whats next?: "Peter, I believe that Mr. Smith insists that Santa Claus isn't real. Where do you stand on that?" TY Kellie-Jay Keen for being the one adult in the room!
I love Kellie! Why is it always a discussion about trans women and never ever about trans men?? It’s always men that change to women I’ve not watched one debate about women that turn to men wanting this or that. It’s an attack on women. Keep talking Kellie!
I'm afraid I have parted company with Peter Tatchell since he embraced self identity. & Peter's comment about "trans women" protesting about the Miss World Competition in the early 70s, these were infact drag queens, ie: gay men. As for "cis women", come on Talk Radio!!!!
That was misogyny at its best. Kelly was right when she called you out for having a man debate this. All this is coming from man- brain, the whole issue. Women aren't crying out for the use of men's spaces, we just aren't. That SHOULD say something right there. And I love how he can bring up ONE person in the office, but when Kelly does it, she's generalizing. WTF. This was frustrating as hell as a WOMAN to listen to.
Absolute disgrace that we're all being hoodwinked into denying the differences in sex. Kelly makes a great point which Tatchell avoids concerning why we've always had men and women's sport categories. Absolute insanity. Are we just realising now that we've been wrong for centuries about the sexes? Bollocks.
There’s no such thing as a ‘cis’ woman. They’re just called ‘women’.
Thank you
Define what a woman is then ???
@@intrsexclothing8859 an adult human female with X-X chromosomes, ovaries, vagina, mammary glands that produce milk, womb, etc.
@@intrsexclothing8859 why don't you give it a try?
@@lesleysmith107 so as an intersex I have some of those stuff!!!! So does that make me a woman???
women's rights for women. I don't recognise men as women. I do not accept being qualified by 'cis' as this is offensive to women. Thank you Kellie for all you said.
It is insulting to change my designation. Who the hell are people like tatchell to change and speak for me.
I put Normal in social media bios. Just for the triggering.
@@davidadiwego4608 Social roles and conventions were automatic and never in question throughout 1st and 2nd wave generally speaking, only the choice for marriage, children and to earn a living. Opinions vary, but generally speaking social roles, conventions were never rejected until perhaps recently.
@@davidadiwego4608 are you saying you think it is right that women stay at home, to have babies, do all the traditional home duties, have no rights, are not allowed to vote, work or be educated and be seen as sexual objects with no say on how it makes them feel? that i believe was what the original femisnists were fighting about.......
@Dancing Fool
instead of the term 'cis'.. i propose we use the word 'real' instead..
it should help everyone understand what we're talking about...
Man argues men should use women’s bathrooms.
Thank you! Was completely horrified that this so called “human rights activist” seemed to have absolutely no concern for the human rights and safety of women and girls. Just another example of the utter misogyny of the extreme trans movement and their supporters. There is absolutely no reason why women should have to sacrifice their rights in order that transgender people can acquire theirs.
It was worse than that.
He argued that men who are sexual deviants who have been arrested and prosecuted for sexually abusing women in women's spaces should be allowed back into women's spaces after they have been imprisoned if they are deemed to have reformed. Everyone deserves a second chance to offend.
Although I admire Tatchell’s actions for gay rights in the past, on this topic he is absolutely useless and has no argument at all.
@bobby sternlicht Keen is speaking from a woman’s perspective. And she is speak for, in my humble opinion as a woman, the majority. If trans people want safe spaces, then they should be fighting for their own, not to invade ours. And men fighting against women, when it doesn’t affect them AT ALL, is absolutely laughable.
@bobby sternlicht You're just as misogynistic as Tatchell.
So Women don't have the right to decide whether Men can enter Women's spaces...But Tatchell does !!
Oh Kellie, you are a queen. Thank you for protecting the rights women and girls!
Completely agree with Kelly. Women’s rights need to be respected.
“To say trans women are biologically male are to say black peoples are white.” Did I hear that statement right? I hope not.
Agreed
@@jeremiahfix5529 what is wrong with that statement
@@meatfeast335, a person who has transitioned their identity from being a male to attempting to being a female is a biological female?
@@meatfeast335 it's provably untrue.
This is the one and only time I will tell a man he has no right to an opinion! How dare you, Peter, tell me that you think it's okay that I have to share a toilet with a man? How dare you tell us how to feel about having someone biologically different and generally stronger using a space set out for women?
Just an add on, thank you to all the lovely darling men who are standing up for their daughters, wives, mothers and sisters in the comments, we need you and appreciate you ❤️
You have probably shared a public loo where a trans woman has been there and not realised … the majority of trans women are not a threat and just go there too pee!
@@freyjakat9217 I very likely have, and contrary to how it may come across there are some trans women out there that I adore and would not have a problem sharing space with, but my opinion doesn't come above that of other women, older ladies and little girls who may not feel the same. There are those out there who will and are using the rule softening to be a threat, and we can't allow this to progress further.
Here! Here! They can f .... right off.
Why is the media promoting that some governing body dictate the rules of a society that would regulate itself? . ; We take issue with those who make demands without any intention of respecting the group.
Peter is kidding himself, he is in denial, Kelly is spot on
Well, you're not that smart to begin with.
I'm actually impartial on this issue but Peter's argument are indeed compelling.
I don't care about dictionary definitions, I care about scientific data.
Peter repeatedly asked and pointed out the data which is the correct thing to do.
Scientists only care about the data.
If the data shows evidences of harm or advantage are almost negligible, then I'm quite convinced.
Unless the data shows a sudden spike of trans athletes domination, I think Kelly doesn't have a leg to stand.
As Peter pointed out, most elite athletes have biological features that are above normal.
@@kazearaki853 you claim to be impartial🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Define 'woman' I can wait......take all the time you want
@@simonclare100 A definition from which branch of science?
You have to be specific here.
Let me ask you also a simple question: define gravity for me.
Depending on the scientific field that you're in, the definitions will differ.
But it's explaining the same natural phenomena.
In this case, we're talking about this natural phenomena called "gender identity" which is a mix of psychology and biology.
Why does a trans woman define herself as a woman?
At least from the papers I've read, there are biological markers that make them psychologically think this way.
So, from a biologically-based-psychological point of view they can be defined as a woman but not from a strict biological point of view.
You see the nuances here?
On the other hand, how many research papers have you read?
@@kazearaki853 what utter nonsense, woman is defined by biology alone initially as a base line, if you can't define it from there you can't substantiate any 'theories' from that point.
Start at the beginning, if you can't even do that the rest has no foundation
Pete is a creep
I can’t stress enough how important it is for women to have spaces exclusively for them. This was understood by our grandparents. For back in those days there were women’s only carriages on trains, waiting rooms on the platform marked for women only, separate women’s wards in hospital and times at the swimming baths that were solely for women. The Victorians and Edwardians knew the value of separating the sexes for the protection of women. How sad and tragic that this form of safeguarding no longer applies.
Women only spaces are a necessity. This debate is often centred around western trans women but women from the global south are often left out of the conversation. Caroline Criado Perez’s book ‘invisible women’ touches on how gender neutrality actually statistically harms women and girls and benefits men.
Its just plain respect for dignity as well Molly.
they also locked women up for hysteria. wouldn't let them vote or have jobs or their own money, and treated us like property (which we ourselves weren't allowed to own) please let's not act as if the past was somehow better for us, it absolutely was not
Even today there are women only train carriages in Japan. The trains are very full - so many people squished in together- and there was a real problem with some men opportunistically groping women or rubbing up on them.
@@ALBUMOF2008 nobody here is advocating for gender neutrality, we are just saying washrooms should be sorted by gender identity & not sex
11:00 "What does living as a woman mean?" That was an extremely strong point by Kellie. Checkmate.
Being as feminine as possible just as many other women try to do.
@@comfymoder So are feminine gay men actually women? What about masculine lesbians? Are they men? Are feminine men more of a 'woman' than masculine women? This is sexist stereotype nonsense. Women = female.
@@community647 They are women if they transition to women because they feel better suited taking on a female role yes. Usually because they want to avoid the masculinisation of their body from testosterone. Everyone enforces sexist stereotypes because everyone has a gender identity and wants to fit some traditional ideal of femininity (or masculinity). This is just reality, if a man is very feminine and wants to be seen that way he has to conform to those ideals.
@@community647 To make the point clearer. You don't call a woman she because you have x ray vision to see whats in their underwear, you do it because they look like what you expect a woman to look like. If you ever met a passing transgender woman you would instinctively call her she because you yourself conform to sexist stereotypes of what women and men look like. And that's fine, everyone does that and thats why transfeminine people do their best to conform to that standard to be accepted.
And he didn’t even try to answer.
You don’t need to say “cis women” just say women.
‘Need’ now there is word to reveal a persons true motives.
Agree
It's to differentiate from transgender women, obviously
@@unicorntomboy9736 the correct way to say that is "man" or "transvestite". up to you.
@@freedomishealthy1086 No. Also I thought the latter was an offensive term
Absolutely agree with Kelly. Interesting that men like Peter appears in charge of what women should or should not accept. He denies biological reality and the biological advantage that men have in sport.
He also made the fallacious claim that being male was not advantageous to Laurel Hubbard on the basis that he didn't win this time.
@@manchegocheese997 Right? I mean he deprived a woman of an olympic spot, so there's that. I also think he may have lost on purpose but we all know men are not as strong emotionally as women, so he could have just folded under the pressure of having to pretend to be a woman for all the world to see while trying to steal the spotlight.
Why did Peter get so much airtime? It was extraordinary and definitely unbalanced, he got the first word and the last word on everything!
And he speaks lies, Hubbard lost because he was old and he was mediocre to begin with, once they put up a young man who is an elite athlete the women will not stand a chance. Many disingenuous arguments here Peter.
@@savewomenssportaustralasia2730 I may be wrong, but I think that Hubbard deliberately lost so that in the future we will be told "look, transwomen don't have an advantage over women, so they are allowed to compete in all sports against women". He was probably paid well to fail.
Peter Tatchell is a hateful person.
Laurel Hubbard is almost double the average age of the lifters he competed against, which is ancient in weightlifting. He was a very average male weightlifter and decided to compete as a female and is now able to stand on the stage as an elite, world class Olympian. If that doesn't show what difference there is between the sexes, then I don't know what to say.
The woman whose spot he took is the one I feel sorry for. What a complete joke.
Laurel Hubbard was beaten by several cis women weight-lifters, though. If she'd have had a physical advantage over the other competitors she would have won.
@@katie2858 My point being that a lifter, way beyond their physical peak, who retired through injury as a male and took years out, decided to start lifting again against females and was able to compete at a World class level and push out the best female lifter in new Zealand, who is half the age and at the peak of her career.
This is now acceptable in the Olympics, so imagine if a decent male lifter, in their prime, decided to compete against women. Even after a year of hormone blockers, etc. It is going to be a joke and it will be women that suffer.
I am labelled as transphobic for having that view, but I really don't care what someone chooses to do with their lives, as long as it doesn't impact detrimentally on others. I would say I champion fairness, so when I see where this is destined to go over the next 20 years, then women are going to be impacted detrimentally. We haven't seen anything, yet.
@Katie , stop calling him she! He is he! T-women are MEN! Science says so, nature says so, common sense says so!
@katie laurel Hubbard is a man
@@katie2858 no such thing as cis women. There are women and that doesn't include men. Only a man can be a transwo-man.
Calling trans women "women" is offensive to women
Yess to transphobic women
TURF and proud of it!!!!!
@@alainaruble163 and i should care because
It’s offensive to men too.
@@kainoir8243 how do you define "transphobic women"?
It’s a crazy world we live in, saying that “men are not women” can get you in trouble
I have no problem with saying it…..”men are NOT women”!!!
@@pennywise146 there have been some women banned from twitter and fired from jobs for saying it
@@okok-sh4cu I’m not on Twitter and I’m retired….don’t care!
Kellie-Jay takes no prisoners, and ironically has bigger balls than a lot of men. Inspirational.
I could destroy her argument in seconds!! She won't even have a conversation with me as she knows she will lose!!
@@intrsexclothing8859 She never loses
@@intrsexclothing8859 go on then.
She is powerful and brave and she does not have balls!
@@intrsexclothing8859 Doubt that. By the way, do you sell intersex bras?
Kevin, stop saying CIS women. We're just women!
I know - wtf
Can you tell me what cis is and why it is...thanks
@@dorothysurry1368 It's a label coined by a trans activist, in order to delegitimise & minimise real women.
WTAF is cis?
@@jrbs apparently it just means being normal
Kelly J had some real down to earth susinct points made with undeniable logic...Peter just had waffle.
WE LOVE YOU KELLY J!
He had waffle...and absolutely shameless lies.
Notice at 8.08 Peter Tatchell brings in the word "feminist" instead of saying "women," presumably as a way of obscuring the fact that it is men and women being discussed, not ideological subsets. This debate usually seems to involve throwing in many red herrings to hide reality. When this fad is "history" the people of the future are going to have a lot of trouble understanding how it could have happened, just like I couldn't understand 16th and 17th century witch-burning for a long time. Now it is clear how such things can happen.
I think Peter is dangerous
Succinct.
Kellie-Jay was pitch perfect. Peter just struggled to present a woke narrative and he was very wrong about mental health improvement in those who had transitioned.
👍👏
Tatchell deliberately mis-represents the argument here. No-one is saying that trans people don't have rights. Most of us are just stating a fact by saying they are NOT biological women. If trans people want their own toilets and sports teams or whatever else then fine. Go ahead. Just don't pretend to be a biological woman. You are not.
👍👏
Are the concerns of an actual woman not enough?
Your avatar name tells me you know what’s up.
Cowardice is called courage
Men are called women
Racism is called anti-racism
Fascism is called anti-fascism
Regressive is called progressive
Opinions are called facts
Facts are called hate
Welcome to the West in 2021
Wrong Think …
Apparently not .. talk about being cancelled ..
Women said no....
So much for no means no eh!?!
@@cyclist68 Black is white
i am a gay man and 100% with Kellie.
Me too she’s a legend
Thank u 🙏🏻
@emerald it is homophobic, I was suspended from Twitter simply for stating heterosexual males aren't lesbians.
What does being a gay man have to do with this? Does that mean that your opinion is worth more than a straight man for example? I dont get it?
@@craighart9278 - it means he is part of the LGBTQ+ community and that not everyone in that community shares the gender ideology. It means the organisation isn't representative for homosexual individuals. It is important to many homosexuals to say that out loud. Which is also the reason behind them making a new organisation, LGB alliance.
Why is Tatchell so invested in letting men be in women's spaces legally? What sane man would want this? What are his motives?
He can virtue signal, and has no wife or female children to worry about. Gay men are commonly extremely misogynistic. Not all of course. Some of the greatest feminist allies are gay men. Tatchell also doesn’t have to worry about being coerced into a sexual relationship with a trans identified man, because the ones who are attracted to men(very few) aren’t attracted to gay men. Gay men without compassion for women and children, like Peter, have absolutely nothing to lose when it comes to this issue.
Weak women cannot protect children if they can’t protect themselves. That’s his motive
The same narcissistic motives that led him to demand gay cruising rights in public parks! Not one thought for children & families exposed to this, and now he expects psychologically disturbed children and adults to act out their social gender fantasies with the support of all around them! Anything to avoid confronting their personal problems, just like he's avoiding confronting his.
Tatchell is a nonce without a doubt
His motive is keeping himself in the spotlight. Tatchell is a long-established attention-seeker. In old age he is keeping himself in the spotlight by presenting himself as a sagacious voice of reason. He is in fact a sad loner.
Watching Posie smash Tatchell's teeth in with verbal right hooks with her intellectual brass knuckles is a delight I've watched this several times through, and seeing Tatchell grovel in a ball of snot and tears is heartwarming. Go Posie!
I am a straight woman. Not only is Kellie extremely intelligent and 100% right, she’s also incredibly beautiful. Thank you Kelly for being our voice 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
He's going to simply stop debating her soon.. She's fully got his number EVERY time.. She's so sharp and concise.. All this talk about feminism and trans issues.?. That women right there is solid.. That to me is a strong women.. Super smart takes no prisoners..
Well, you're not that smart to begin with.
I'm actually impartial on this issue but Peter's argument are indeed compelling.
I don't care about dictionary definitions, I care about scientific data.
Peter repeatedly asked and pointed out the data which is the correct thing to do.
Scientists only care about the data.
If the data shows evidences of harm or advantage are almost negligible, then I'm quite convinced.
Unless the data shows a sudden spike of trans athletes domination, I think Kelly doesn't have a leg to stand.
As Peter pointed out, most elite athletes have biological features that are above normal.
@@kazearaki853 this is the thin end of the wedge the situation is only going to get worse if you can't see that you need to go to specsavers
@@kazearaki853 only compelling to a moron.
@kazearaki853 Stop kidding yourself. The science is in..., however, even without the science anyone with any common sense will know that every sport men outclass women. Men are males and will always be.
Males, whatever they call themselves are males and there will always be an advantage.
Kellie 100% - Tatchell is just not with it. He seems to be unaware of the Kiera Bell/Tavistock clinic scandal - either that or he’s ignoring it because it’s inconvenient. Respect and support for trans people, but a trans woman is a man. Respect single sex spaces & maintain & extend women’s sex-based rights
We are destroying our civilisation
He will be ignoring it IMO, he's been involved in the debate for years, he knows all the ins and outs of it.
He's always been a disingenuous player.
He knows it.
@@allen-lifts - ooh, looks like we got a stupid person here 🤣
I just want real women to have access women’s spaces, I totally agree with Kelly.
whos this tatchell nutjob ???
Peter is completely factually wrong about the mental health of post transition people improving.
Actually, he's not. But that reality won't affirm your transphobia will it?
@@dreamclaw00I was in a relationship a trans-woman their mental health went down after a procedure and this is not uncommon. (This person improved over time). Some recover, some regret it, and a few have no problems whatsoever. Making sweeping statements about transphobia does change these realities.
"Most trans women are not much different than other women"
LOL, that should have come with a warning! I nearly choked on my chocolate almond milk, laughing so hard!
Katie Delokovski, who sexually assaulted two young girls in a supermarket toilet is 6ft 5
He is openly lying. Smoke and mirrors. Typical predator. Despite him getting first and last word, she wiped the floor with him.
These MEN are not women
Maybe they feel threatened going into the gents dressed as women so they want to go into the women's,easier for them,they don't care how threatened women feel.
I know this is 2 years old, but…YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. TWAM and will NEVER be women.
Cis-women an appalling term!!!!! I agree absolutely with Kelly. I am surprised and disappointed that Peter does not support womens right to their own safe spaces. Peter also denies the biological differences between male and female and the advantage this gives transgender males in sport. That is denying the obvious.
I truly dearest it with every fiber of my being!!!!! ❌🤨 ughh! Like trans women needs a prefix, biological women don’t! It’s completely absurd at this point! Pfft
IS HE A MEMBER OF PIE
What about the comment: ‘trans-women and non-trans-women’.
Fallon Fox breaks woman's skull
Peter Thatchell "trans women don't have a physical advantage over biological women"
I think that woman with a broken skull would beg to differ mate'
One of his lies.
The male track fellows who were ranked 300, went trans and won 14/15 state championships and broke 11 records, set by 8 women over 20 years.
A fellow who went trans, and in first competition won every event and broke 3 records.
Just samples of things to come.
Peter clearly despises women
"Most trans women aren't any different from most women."
The sleight of hand here is that athletes don't represent most people. They represent the best athletically and most perseverent of people. Women's and Men's competitions were seperated because the best women can't compete with the best men at many competitions due to biological differences. If women don't have the women section to themselves then there may as well be no seperation in the first place.
That was so gross. A man whooped the sht outa top woman athletes. Without consent. They didn't know... gross.
The irony of a biological male speaking over women and telling us how we, females, should feel and think.
God bless Kellie-Jay for her willingness to debate such men. I can only hope reality will win the day.
Totally agree with Kellie. Women's rights need to be protected.
Tough… the feminist left woke have trail blazed this nonsense , while THE RIGHT have been warning you about this for over a decade. And those on The Right were shouted down by woke leftist and labelled homophobic.
@Log A. Birch no we don't and trust me your going to need us to help you with this fight.
@@stephenking8505 you don't sound particularly willing to help with your response of "Tough...", maybe stop being so sanctimonious, and realise most women and girls aren't feminists, yet they're being harmed by this twisted ideology regardless.
@@apebass2215 I won't tolerate men beating women up and like I say your going to need us because the government aren't going to back down over this. Where's all your sjws at? Oh that's right they're OK with men beating women up.
@@stephenking8505 'my' sjws? I never had any sjws. I'm very much capable of standing up for the truth and biological reality, whereas you seem more concerned about scoring cheap political points that are ultimately meaningless.
Posie Parker is a HERO
And an ex feminist I notice.
@@cyclist68 Ex feminist?
@@yourdutynowistoresist7198 In her own words,
@@cyclist68 anyone who refers to cleaning your own house, cooking your own food and looking after your own kids as 'unpaid labour' is a feminist. She just rejects the label, probably because a large proportion of the feminist movement have labelled her a "terf" and demonized her, so she's rejected them in turn.
@@tomemery7890 feminists don't use term "Terf", radical trans activist use it as a slur to lable and so attack gender critical people.
Dissapointed Kelly was cut off after Peter was allowed a long diatribe, spouting feelings over facts, he is so wrong and ignores the danger to very young minds before they are mature enough to rationalise these issues
Agreed
Very frustrating that Kellie got considerably less time than Peter (or was that my imagination?).
@@boudicca9807 not your imagination, and sadly a typical situation
PT was interrupted by KJ as he spoke of his example of the Refuge where the staff voted and the users of the service voted to allow men who dress/'identify' as women to use the service. The host interrupted KJ and this was not explored fully. Allow debate and allow rational critiques of examples. Today if Isla Bryson or Barbie kardashian wanted to seek refuge claiming abuse, would the staff/service users vote on that, or have they set a precedent?
This guy actually claims trans women don't have an advantage. Look at the stats. Nearly all transwomen who enter women's sports dominate them. You have to be either thick or disingenuous to argue otherwise. Facts don't care about your feelings.
Given the tiny percentage of population that are trans, it's amazing how many hours of talk and column inches of paper are focused on them.
because they are very vocal about pushing laws that stop any critic and opposition to their erosion of gay and women's rights. this is a bad movement for lesbians/gay and women in general
they also have google/big pharma giving money into trans lobby groups that have been working very hard under the guise of LGBT- despite being homophobic
That tiny percentage is growing through social contagion.
This is the man who campaigned to have the age of legal sex reduced to 12 years old. What else would you expect from him. He even uses anecdotes to try to prove his points.
You serious?
@@brianlaudrupchannel He did at one point in the past. Now he says that his followers should abide by the legal age of consent.
@@cuttlefisch sicko
@@Matty-man I remember reading it quite a few years ago and it was sickening. It didn't keep him off the TV though. It probably one of the reasons I gave up on watching that propaganda nachine 12 years ago.
That’s pedo behaviour if he thinks 12 years old should be age of consent
Lord - what a windbag PT is. He was allowed almost twice as much time as Kellie-Jay to say not very much but oozed sanctimonious compassion. And what was that all about - droning on about the alternative Miss World - Kevin should have moved that one along. Totally irrelevant to the conversation. Kellie-Jay was clear, concise and I would have like to have heard more - especially countering PT's dismissal of the epidemic of destructive surgery on teens in the USA. He’s not doing his homework to find what is really going on. Keira Bell's case counters his assertion that it can't happen here. What about the disgusting “yeet those teets” slogan on a US surgeon's instagram. It’s beyond grim and deeply disturbing.
Well of course he was, he is a man. Even in a debate about women's rights, the male moderator looked ot the male for his alleged wisdom. LOL! We women know how this works.
@@groundcontrol436385
Oh give it a rest.
You're lucky 'we men' are stepping in to help you, or you'd probably fail.
@@scotlandtheinsane3359, misogyny and condescension in a single A*ole. Amazing. We women shall forever worship you.
@@groundcontrol436385
Don't need to worship me forever whiny misandrist; I don't care, and in fact, hope the lunacy continues to torment you.
I will do nothing to help you.
You reap what you sow lol
@@scotlandtheinsane3359 I thought you were 'stepping in to help'? Then someone said something you didn't like and you flounce off? I fail to see what help you could possibly offer. You appear to be unable to cope with a YT comments thread.
Peter has no right to speak about women’s rights.
Because you disagree with what he says?
@@testudohorsfieldii7052 because he pretends he doesn't know what a woman is
@@apebass2215 he isn't pretending it's what he believes, and he has every right to voice his views regardless as to whether you or I agree with him, what don't you get about that?
@@testudohorsfieldii7052 yes, he believes women don't exist. How can anyone promote women's rights if they don't know what women are?
He has every right to his sexist beliefs, just like I have every right to disagree with him.
Apparently, though, three cis people have the right to speak about transgender rights without any actual trans person included in that scenario.
If you told me a decade or more ago that we would actually have to waste time trying to figure out if men pretending to be women are actually women, I wouldn't have believed you. And I had a pessimistic outlook on the intelligence of our species back then too. Obviously not pessimistic enough...
What utter BS from Tatchell. Men in dresses do not experience rape, murder and sexual assault at same rate as women.
He is full of BS today, and really not worth listening to.
Kellie is bloody brilliant 🤩
So if I take a saddle off a horse and put it on a cow, is the cow a horse?
😅😅😅
No because you're not changing the cow idiot
I'm with Kelly.
Kelly J speaks the truth. Everything else said here is madness.
Doesn’t the prefix ‘trans’ demonstrate that a trans person is not really the sex they claim to be? A trans man or woman would just be called a man or woman, surely?
I think Peter needs to speak to the Tavistock clinic if he's under the illusion that it's "extremely difficult" for young children to be 'transgendered' in this country.
I’ll bet a million dollars you’ve never sent foot in Tavistock.
I think he needs to be placed in the rubber room with the rest of these freaks and throw away the key!
There is ZERO support for trans kids or families in the UK.
Nothing.
You're delusional.
Peter, lost it when he tried to talk about trans in sport, he doesn't have any understanding of the physiological differences between the two sexes so talked about big women and small men.....
Yeah, because as a big woman, I'm basically a man🤦 he seems an old school misogynistic gay man, which is why he thinks men should be women 🤷
I don't mind calling Jack Jill but I don't have to accept he/she is a woman. There is more to being a woman than just appearance and that is all that a man who identifies as a woman is able to achieve, sometimes not very successfully.
Often not very successfully 😂
Yes
Love it!
Absolutely right you are
Say it louder so the people in the back can hear!
Yep they think just putting on a dress, a wig and wearing make up is all it takes to be a woman 🙄🙄
They stand out like a sore thumb, spot them a mile off 😂
Why did Tatchell have more air time, including the last word? The lies that not transing kids will lead to their suicide
Tatchell lied at least 4x. Kellie-Jay should have been allowed to rebut.
Tatchell talks about female activists, which is a tiny minority of woman , as though they are more important than the majority of women who will disagree with him and the activists.
Exactly, well put.
Has he seen the upset women felt when Stonewall said ban the word Mother?
Totally with Kellie-Jay.
Go Kellie! You are absolutely right
I am a woman
Not Cis
Just a middle aged open minded woman
Absolutely, I am a 55 year old woman, and never in my life did I think things would come to this vile madness!!!!.
This is a man fighting for men to have the right to do whatever they want where ever they want. It's time to put an end to the idiocy.
I didn't know who she was but after seeing her come to my home town in Melbourne and how violent the alphabet people are I am glad to hear her speak.
Why is it the trans activists always get longer to speak and have the last word?
Because they are corporate-sponsored???
Did he not advocate lowering the age of consent laws?
A member of PIE perhaps?
@@evieblessed I thought that was Corbyn
@@meatfeast335 , I don't know but find the letter he wrote to the Guardian called 'Tatchell on Sex With Children'. It's enough for me to discount his opinion on vulnerable groups, be it women or children, losing rights to less vulnerable groups.
Yes and that was in his published book. What's his private opinion is we can only guess. Edit: I made a statement I cannot back with evidence and so decided to remove it. I will say that I believe Tatchell was a close friend of another man who advocated something that is criminal and was imprisoned for that vile crime.
Yes, and he defended pedophilia in a letter to the Guardian. The gay rights movement has consistently advocated for the elimination of the age of consent since its inception, although they tend not to present that side of their agenda to the public. Tatchell is one of many.
Tatchell is utter poison.
Peter, like so many tra’s, needs to “educate himself”, as they are so fond of telling those of us who disagree with them. He claims to be oblivious to easily verifiable facts by saying he’s not aware of them, and “it won’t happen here” mentality. It’s happening everywhere Peter. We are watching with horror women’s rights being destroyed worldwide, while men like you are turning a wilfully blind eye.
👍
as a young lesbian woman thank you kellie for defending women and our spaces. you have my support 100%
When it comes to female sports . People born biologically male and transition generally have physical advantages over biological females , that's why 'trans women shouldn't compete and anyone using the fact that Laurel Hubbard lost, to try and prove that trans women don't have physical advantages over biological women would be like saying if one female athlete can be successful against male athletes in one event it proves biological men don't have a physical advantage over biological females as a group, which of course would be clearly untrue. Kellie Jay won this debate hands down
The only sport where a female couldn't possibly outplay a male is a skill only sport.
So things like curling, archery etc
Things that require you to be physically fit, then they have no chance
@@natsohigh5552, even in archery a male's upper body strength would be an advantage. Hubbard lifted more than 2x the weight previously so this loss was either deliberate or it was caused by some technical fault like failing to get the grip correctly or whatever it is called. Maybe Hubbard didn't talc enough - sweaty hands and all.
These advantages are well documented. Also, research has shown hormone treatments do very little to impact overall performance. Simply having a lower testosterone lever has no impact on many of the advantages that a male has.
So transmen should compete in the women's division then?
@@rasverixxyleighraq1509 no, females taking T are called cheaters.
Sorry Mr Tachell you are completely wrong on this issue! Go kJ!
Don't apologise to anyone who pretends not to know what men and women are.
A woman is an adult human female " get over it "
Define what makes you female??
Being born a female child its the only way to be a female or a woman
@@mandysymons2142 but what makes you a female child?? As an intersex person (which I am) you could say I'm both Male and Female and I was born that way, so does that make me a female now and so a woman ????
@@intrsexclothing8859 that makes you a rare human
@@mandysymons2142 150 million people isn't rare hunni its just a different sex that people are scared of
I‘m gay and I‘m with her. Let us please not lose our minds? Thanks. LGBdroptheT
The worrying aspect of this is that we are even having this conversation.
If we can no longer agree on the definition of a man and a woman as being absolute all hope is lost on every other aspect of the human existence .
Thank you Kellie jay for fighting for women and our spaces
So, Peters friend has had no problems at her womens centre in 6 years..
OK Peter what is the context of that - 2 trans woman go there a year ? A week ?
A day ?
We need to give up thousands of years of fights for women's rights because Peters friend has had no trouble in 6 years. Typical woke attitude of "my friend cried therefore let's change the world " .
and he's wrong to state that men have to undergo rigorous examination of their intent. That's only if they want their genitalia removing. They just need to self identify to allow them access to women's prisons and hospital wards etc. Too much time given to PT with hardly any time allowed to Kellie!
Right? The problem was that he was there.
Well articulated Kellie I'm a Male and fully agree with you you keep up the fight men are men women are women there is nothing else on this planet
Except there's intersex people like myself!!!
says the Gammon
@@intrsexclothing8859 people with DSDs are still either male or female like everyone else. If you really were 'intersex' you'd know this.
@@intrsexclothing8859 you're not "intersex" stop lieing
@@irinanovak1659 tell that to my endocrinologist then darling
I find it ironic that it is a male who believes his is an authority on and has the right to determine what biological women 'should get along' with.
To quote Peter: "No one is pressuring women to transition, it's about people making choices. I think in a free society, we should accept that and "live and let live""
Yeah, sure, they can make their choices, and they can transition, but they can also stick their sex-based spaces? Why can't Hubbard just compete in men's division? that doesn't exclude trans people.
I think he is just 100% misogynist. He apparently wants women to not be safe, he wants children to be available for adults in an adult way, he wants young girls to be ruined. His attitude to young people is frightening. That campaign yonliwer she if consent is behind him endorsing 12 yr old masectomies. The guy is full of ideas that are deluded and dangerous.
Go get em Posey x
Tatchell doesn't seem to know what is actually happening, does he? Either that, or he is disingenuous. Horrible, especially, his attitude to girls, and his dismissal of women. His right to privacy, dignity and safety are not been eroded.
He knows fine well.
Not ''Cis Women'', --> Actual Women.
Well done this woman for speaking out against the insanity.
Laurel hubbard must have failed all of his lifts on purpose. There's videos of him easily lifting much heavier weight in training, than was lifted in the Olympics. The lifts he failed on could even be considered warm up sets for him, but he decided to fail. For what reason? It all sounds very fishy if you ask me.
I wouldn’t trust a word of Thatchell says.
The idea that it is possible to be born in the wrong body is absurd.
I always wonder where's the body that they should have had. Still in heaven?
Sorry, so in what world does this bloke have the authority to tell a woman that it's ok for her and her daughter's to get changed in the women's swimming pool changing rooms in front of a geezer in a skirt ffs
Very perfectly put. Thank you!
Ugh, nothing better than to hear a man mansplain woman’s rights. What the hell is this ideological nonsense and how do we return to something resembling normalcy.
When you cut through the dross Stonewall is raking it in. Plus i'm not cis i'm a women full stop.
One of these speakers got more air time than the other,, and it wasn’t the female person.
Kellie ALL the way
hes not even a trans , so whos he to talk ? kelly is spot on .
Interesting the time ratio between men and women speaking on this issue in this segment too. The two men dominated the floor.
Trans women using the bathrooms, etc, wasn’t a problem UNTIL it was decided that you can just “say” you “feel like a woman”, without any kind of evidence of transition, you’re not allowed to ask, and it’s demanded that people accept it. It makes it easier for people who are predatory, to be predators.
10:00 no, we are not saying that biology is destiny, we are saying that biology is reality.
yup. PT didn't answer K-J's question - 'what is acting like a woman?'
@@moodyonroody5313 Yes...what is that? Must be wearing LIPPY!
Why was Tatchell given more time including the first and last words!
Because TR and this host are pro woke.
Coz a man? Or maybe because if KJ was given equal or more, it would come across as though the producers agree with her and then they’d be cancelled.
@@aviolet3981 I think the latter. I certainly noticed the difference in time allocated.
Laurel Hubbard took the place of a women in the Olympics and that is happening in America quite regularly. What happened at the Wi-Spa to women was dangerous and unethical.
There are no women in the Olympics anyway imo. According to what I've seen, the female presenting athletes are all men. The stories about trans in sports so called taking bio women's spades, are just them slowly exposing what's been hidden.
@@jesusisapisces no, most are women, but alot of men are taking over....they have won 3 gold medals which is a lot of 0.8% of the word's population
The opening statement reveals the absurdity of it all:
"Peter, I believe that Kellie-Jay insists than transwomen are not female, where do you stand on that?"
The fact that this is being framed in such a way that implies KJK is the outlier. How the hell is this even debatable among educated adult human beings? I know Kevin was trying to be impartial, but there is nothing to be impartial about.
Whats next?:
"Peter, I believe that Mr. Smith insists that Santa Claus isn't real. Where do you stand on that?"
TY Kellie-Jay Keen for being the one adult in the room!
I love Kellie! Why is it always a discussion about trans women and never ever about trans men?? It’s always men that change to women I’ve not watched one debate about women that turn to men wanting this or that. It’s an attack on women. Keep talking Kellie!
You can't feel like something you've never been and never will be.
Make it make sense.
Call yourself what you want, live how are you want, but don’t expect to impact the rights of others without rightful pushback.
I'm afraid I have parted company with Peter Tatchell since he embraced self identity.
& Peter's comment about "trans women" protesting about the Miss World Competition in the early 70s, these were infact drag queens, ie: gay men.
As for "cis women", come on Talk Radio!!!!
That was misogyny at its best. Kelly was right when she called you out for having a man debate this. All this is coming from man- brain, the whole issue. Women aren't crying out for the use of men's spaces, we just aren't. That SHOULD say something right there. And I love how he can bring up ONE person in the office, but when Kelly does it, she's generalizing. WTF. This was frustrating as hell as a WOMAN to listen to.
Absolute disgrace that we're all being hoodwinked into denying the differences in sex. Kelly makes a great point which Tatchell avoids concerning why we've always had men and women's sport categories. Absolute insanity. Are we just realising now that we've been wrong for centuries about the sexes? Bollocks.