Someone pointed out a bug to me that I didn't catch! In chapter 6, if you let the story play out, the game crashes because the party tries to walk over the new village. I'm going to get started on fixing this, but in the mean time, if you skip the scene the bug doesn't happen (this is why I didn't notice, I skipped the scene during testing). I'm going to fix that up and re test the other maps I changed to make sure the story is working in those as well.
Heya I wanted to inform you of a new bug I discovered in chapter 19: Last Hope. I am playing on Visual boy Advance and I think its the PAL rom of FE 8 I patched but I am not sure. Regardless, the western chest room is inaccessible. This is because, despite trying with Eirika with doorkeys and using Rennac's pick skill, I cannot open the door. When Eirika had a door key in her inventory the option door did not appear; going to item and trying to use it like that revealed that there was no door to use it on. With Rennac and the Rogue's pick skill its different: he can open the door, but like a cartoon another door appears and there is no way through. Dancing on the same turn and picking the lock leads to the same comical situation. I dont know if you will read this but I wonder what your and other people's thoughts are on this!
As a fellow dev, I just wanted you to know - bugs are truly inevitable on any non-trivial software. Like, there is really no need to feel down about bugs!
Quick thought on giving Neimi paragon, the same effect could be done by making tje female archer class have a different.. I believe it's the 'power' rating. Basically it's the reason some classes like theif get more xp and promoted classes get less. You could just make her class gain xp like a theif which would help her level faster.
I agree; a lower Class Relative Power (CRP) would fix her experience issue, plus it makes sense considering she's "friends" with Colm, who also has a lower CRP than other characters. Plus, it'd set her apart as the only Archer/Sniper/Ranger with this ability (and you don't even need the Skill System patch for it :3) 💕 One thing about your thought process, though: The reason Thieves get more XP and promoted units get less is not due to their CRP (while Thief does only have 2, everyone else, including Rogue and 🍑🍑in, actually have the standard 3), but because of their abilities. In FEBuilder, the XP thing is tied to checkboxes in the Class Editor (which can also be accessed on the Character Editor, lol), and you only need to check them and boom. This is especially important for Thief since it's also baked in with the usual Thief stuff like picking locks and extra FoW vision. It's slightly annoying but manageable and awesome 😎
A couple thoughts, though mostly inconsequential: - Sieglinde is titled the "Storm Blade", so the Thunder or Bolting animation might work better for its 2-range magic animation. - You can give unpromoted Neimi a pseudo-Paragon effect by reducing female Archer's Class Relative Power from 3 to 2, which would let her gain EXP at a boosted rate similar to GBAFE Thieves without affecting enemy Archers (since they're all male). The effect isn't as drastic as Paragon, since it's more like 130%~150% EXP rather than 200%, but it can be done without the Skill System.
Fun fact: The sacred Twin weapons are named after twins named Sieglinde and Siegmund in a German Opera called Die Walküre. (First performed in 1870 so its pretty old.) They are twins separated at childhood and fall in love without knowing their related. This is just a pretty cool fact and the main reason why I wouldn't want Sieglindes name to change.
@@lspuria8440I don't think they're proposing that the name be changed. The "storm blade" is just Sieglinde's other name, like how Siegmund is the "fire lance," Audhulma is the "ice blade," Vidofnir is the "winged lance," Garm is the "black axe," and Nidhogg is the "serpent bow" (the magic Sacred Twins don't get the same treatment). I think it's in their flavor text?
These are some cool changes. I'd like to talk about L'Arachel, though. Increasing her level is cool and all. It lets you promote her much quicker. But I'm not exactly a fan of not upping her bases. Her bases on the whole aren't impressive even at Lv6 on average, so I don't think it would have hurt to have given her Lv6 average bases. I get she's mainly used for horse staffbot utility, but some casual players might want to use her for combat. If Neimi was given average stats for her new base level, I think L'Arachel should be given the same treatment.
I always S rank Light magic on L'Arachel. It just feels canon, and her appearances outside of Sacred Stones would agree. ...In fact, by upping her base level, that means less exp is going to Staves before reaching promotion (do think 3 character levels is more than a full rank of Staff exp if I remember correctly), so that's technically more incentive to make her a combat unit instead of utility, which makes not improving her stats an even bigger slight in that context.
@@Shalakor Agreed. There were some other characters that accidently got nerfed. (Garcia comes to mind here. He should have +2 HP at least.) But I feel like of the unit changes, L'Arachel definitely got dealt the worst hand here.
This is a really light touch, but those can be nice when you want to do something like an otherwise vanilla draft or just have a bit more fun. If you're open to larger changes in the next version, I always liked the idea of balancing Seth by changing nothing else about him but having him go with the other lord at the route split. You have to learn/train to fend without him over the prologue, and then once he gets back his endgame level bases means he can slot right back in alongside everyone else.
Yeah I may do another for larger changes (including a Seth nerf), but ultimately I already love fe8, it's my favorite game of all time, so I wanted to make something that keeps everything I love, but just patches up the few annoyances I have with the game.
@@actuallizard I don't think Seth needs a nerf of any kind. He's an excelent unit for sure, but what makes him stand so highly above his peers is the low quality of your army and generally easier difficulty level of Sacred Stones. i don't think nerfing something in a single player game is conducive to it being more fun, since single player games don't do well when you remove options from them like making Seth weaker or outright force-removing him. I think more than anything, you need to take a second pass on your army and maybe even take a pass to improve on enemy quality. Better base stats, better equipment, more enemy variety especially in the early chapters. Stronger bosses. Maybe even apply the FE6 scaling HMB system. Also maybe take a look at Ephraim's route. This rebalance is has too light a touch to fix the issues with Sacred Stones. You want to place a nerf on Seth? Here's a few options that won't ruin his theme: A) Replace the Steel Sword with a Steel Blade in his starting inventory. This will reduce his SPD by 3 points...hell up the weight by 2 on it to reduce his AS further if you feel like it's necessary. B) Improve enemy quality early on...put faster enemies on the early maps like mercenaries, myrms and faster cavs. That way Seth won't be hitting doubling thresholds as often with only 9 effective AS early on:
I really love how you considered flavor when making these changes. I think it's easy for veteran Fire Emblem players to focus on numbers and stats (and map clear speed) above everything else, but while that stuff is obviously important, I always like it when people try to consider what new players, or just people invested in the story or characters might pay attention to, also. Elements like "the fantasy of this class" are really important for people who aren't experienced enough to scrutinize small numerical differences, so even if something is still sub-optimal, I think it's important that it at least delivers on what it seems to promise the player. It's good for players to feel good about the units they've invested a lot of exp into, even if some take more effort than others. And I was just generally happy to see the consideration for why certain items might be obtained in certain locations beyond how it benefits the player to have them.
@@actuallizard Actually, this just made me think, maybe the shortcut in 5x should be a cracked wall instead of a door? The design of the castle and the placement of the defending soldiers doesn't really make sense with a door there. Uncertain if you might need to tweak some AI types to keep some of the enemies from attacking it, though.
FE8 is a very popular game within my friend group, pretty much all of us enjoy the game quite a bit. One of them is a big fan of the branching promotions on this game so this patch will probably be very fun for them. For me, I enjoy patches that put this game’s difficulty more in line with something like FE6 hard mode where the game is challenging but still fun for casual players. FE8 is a very fun game and it should stay that way
Yeah, this is meant to be a more traditional rebalance. No Skill System and all that it entails, no new classes that wildly throw off game balance, etc. Just a regular ol' facelift 💕 Though it would be cool since basically everybody plays FE8 with the Skill System anyways 🙃
My largest complaint with great knight has always been that it just feels abysmal to go from 7 move on a Cav down to 6. When I messed around with FE editing in the past, I always liked Great Knight having 7 as well so it never felt like a movement downgrade and more worth considering compared to Pally's 8 move. I suppose this rears it's head against general, but as you said, making it a combat powerhouse makes sense, but I'd probably also innately give them base C rank in all weapon types for triangle control. To make up for GK having 7 now compared to 6.
This is a lot of really cool adjusting. I never considered moving Lute to the near village, and I especially like the way you turned lame rewards into nice ones.
Isn't giving Garcia 2 levels that are so bad (1 stat each) basically just a nerf to his overall potential? You didn't even give him statistic average levels which would be 2 hp and at least 1 str.
Especially since being closer to promotion doesn't help much when the first hero crest is in chapter 10. This makes him slightly better if you're benching him after 3 chapters but just worse if you plan on actually using him.
Here's an idea I've seen floated before, in regards to Generals(if possible): To solve some of their issues with movement, while allowing them to make the most of their fighting and tanking abilities, give them the ability to treat allies as terrain that does not cost them any movement tiles. This lets them easily get into position with a bit of help from the others, and also, on Defense maps, reposition swiftly to bring their durability and weapon triangle dominance to where it's needed most.
So I think the idea of adding more enemies who specifically exist to give Seth pause is by far the best way to nerf Seth. I'm all for the one dude with a zanbato.
love a cute lil qol of changes that makes the game more fun. hope to see bigger rebalances in the future as i really enjoy your takes and opinions on the balancing of fun and power fantasy but still making the game challenging and requiring thought
Focus on playing and tweaking Ephraim's route if you want to do another pass on this. I know you just like Erica's route more but part of the reason you might not like Ephraim's route as much is the kinda things some tweaks might fix.
6:30 Very interesting thought process. Although I gotta say, if I only got 1 point into 2 stats over 2 levels I would consider that underperforming if the trend continued. Maybe add a point in something relatively inconsequential like hp or luck. Probably hp for fighter Garcia, fits the class' strengths instead of giving him extra hit rate via luck stat.
I love you approach from the jump - don't nerf anything, and definitely not Seth. Seth's entire unit identity is being HIM. He's HIM, he's always been HIM, he will continue to be HIM, and it would be a shame to lose any of that.
But then you shouldn't even fo a rebalance in the first place because no unit actually need buff if you are willing to play slow, and if you aren't Seth is going to dominate the game anyway. Sacred Stones is already comically easy, a no nerf rebalance is just making it go from a joke to "may as well be phoenix mode".
@@noukan42I do agree, there's a place for rebalances like this though. But if you want something more radical I'd recommend checking out The Princess's Lament which both rebalances the playable cast and increases the difficult by buffing enemy offences. This and some other changes means you can't just give Seth a javelin and send him in to enemy phase everything. It's a great hack.
I’m pleasantly surprised by how subtle these changes are. I really appreciate that the goal here was to make quality of live improvements to the vanilla game rather than a complete reimagining, if you do make more dramatic changes though I look forward to hearing what you change and why.
I like a lot of the changes, but I would personally do a little more for some of the bad units, and some of the changes felt really weird to me. What's the point in raising Garcia's base level? I get that it fits the flavor, but he's already higher level than the other non-seth units, and has no issue reaching promotion level. If anything it feels like he's been slightly nerfed, since he now gains exp ever so slightly slower and has very little to show for it. If you want to commit to this change, I would advise giving him the stats to match his increased level, just like you did with Neimi.
looking at the title alone, and knowing your previous content, im very excited to check this out. might even do it as the next FE8 playthrough on my channel!
Since you didn't do anything with Ephraim route, I've taken it upon myself to do it First thing that always annoyed me was how Phantom Ship isn't very re-playable. My strat for it is to send Seth across the North bridge, Dussel across the South with Ephraim to recruit La'rachel. Cormag deals with the Gargoyles. And Lute deals with the Mogalls. On my first time through it, I had a lot of fun having to re-direct some units from the middle boat to deal with the reinforcements, but now that I know what's coming, they're just annoying. Now, my solution would be to have the reinforcements show up sooner, this makes it so that your army is SOMEWHAT in the area and it's not as annoying. Next thing has to do with "Turning Traitor". When the earthquake hit, I thought there'd be a neat map gimic, but no. So maybe every few turns there'd be an earthquake that would shift a few units around (except fliers). But I'm not sure if FE Builder will let you do this. For "Fluorspar's Oath", I'd make more enemies aggressive. Even on my first playthrough, I could easily bait a few enemies at a time and I don't like that. Narrative wise, I think it fits too because Selena is supposed to be a feared general, yet, her strategy doesn't scare me. Now, this might be a little to big of a change for a re-balance, but it's a change that I really think need to be made. I'd add another chapter in between "Fluorspar's Oath" and "Father and Son". For me, the narrative was really hurt by the fact that Ephraim and company just walk into the Grado castle unopposed. I haven't thought about map design but thought about adding a new character along with it. Now, this would also mean another chapter and character would have to be added to Erika route, hence why it's a little to big for a balance patch. Lastly, on "Scorched Sand" I'd add two Frelian paladins that join the lord who's path you didn't take. It doesn't sit right with me how you see NO units from Frelia when the kingdom's best supposedly rides with the other lord. I would like to mention I have not played Sacred Stones that much and no where near as much as Lizard has. So if you have any thoughts and/or corrections, let me hear them
Have the map be a fight outside the gates of Grado castle. It always bothered me that we have scenes of the castle and buildings surrounding it but never actually get to fight to the castle.
@@joshuabonesteel2303 The interesting thing is that there's an arnpry near the castle. You can see it in a few cut scenes. So I wonder if IS was going to do something like that but didn't
Y'know, I love playing this alongside Mekkah's 60% better enemy growths (growth × 1.6 that is). It's a more challenging game and the changes encourage me to use the non horse promos to keep up! Eirika also still doesn't get two shot, which is incredible, and she does good in combat
Adding unit and class skills would be a good addition for future versions. And maybe take a note or two from project ember and the newer games and add 1-2 range shortbows and make other bows 2-3 range so footlocked archers not named Innes can actually do something useful
eh not really, especially within what this rebalance does. bows becoming 2-3 range wouldn't suddenly make archers strong because getting countered in SS rarely matters. they're still floundering when in a game full of weak enemies where having an effective EP is more important. its taking smthn from project ember without the other aspects that made any of those work for some people. for archers to really be doing anything useful they'd need to be more often put in a position where 2-3 range matters and isnt just slightly convenient. fe8 would need quite a bit of changeups to not just be putting a system the game itself wasnt designed for (and absolutely out of the scope/goals to this)
Lol I think you forgot to mention what you put in the extra village at 22:27. I love the L'Arachel changes! I always just grind her exp with torch staves in skirmish maps to get her to level 6 or 7 when I recruit her anyway
@@actuallizardIf you're open to adding the cut monster-effective weapons, when I made an fe8 rebalance in the past I put a bright lance in the chapter 6 village instead of the antitoxin. It mostly has applications for slower methodical playthroughs where you're training up units and not blitzing with Seth, but it gives Vanessa an option to reliably kill the spider before it kills the civilians on the right of the map, so I thought it was a good placement for it.
Personally, when doing a tightening up pass and if you want to keep the other route in mind a bit, the first extra change I'd recommend is giving Erika +5% growths in Spd and Res. The Res is so her Def and Res growths remain a reversal of her brother's (comparitive -10/+10 instead of the original -5/+5), while the Spd is mostly for the flavor of keeping her base growth total the same as her original, since it really won't change her mid nor late game speed for the most part (or you can just forgo the nerf to HP growth, since you mentioned playtesting was still showing her to be squishy enough for it to maybe do no harm). Plenty of people have already mentioned how to up Neimi's exp gain without the skills patch, so that's neat. ...Eh, I was going to think of more stuff, but had to go to bed and now not motivated to.
This is exactly what I wanted out of a Sacred Stones rebalance. Minimal but meaningful. Most of the rebalances add a bit too many bells and whistles for my personal taste, so I really like these changes that make things slightly more rewarding and toning down some of the more annoying bits. I usually go Ephraim route, but this makes me want to give Eirika route a try!
I think a fun change would be to buff up the enemies in the late game a but, especially Lyon and the final boss. I think it would make for a much more fun and rewarding experience for everyone who has already played the vanilla game.
I always thought Seth may only need a shift in power budget to not be as dominating as he is. Like since he's supposed to be wounded by valter I think giving lower but still good bases in exchange for slightly worse bases he gets better growth. My rationale is that he's still young and in his prime but his fight against valter made him weaker but he recovers as the game goes on. I dont know how this would affect the game overall but I think it could be worth trying ?
Big fan of all the changes, and i appreciate the buffs over nerfs approach! I am however surprised Valkyrie saw no changes, as when compared to Bishop and Mage Knight its just the worse option
Isn't it exactly even stats and ranks with Mage Knight? It basically exists as the class to use the S Rank Light Tome with, since the effectiveness doesn't stack with Slayer. Edit: No, wait, yeah, needs C rank in Light magic at least.
This is dope for sure. One character ran through my mind (Syrene) and I was surprised she wasn't in the upgrade breakdown due to her mediocrity, but I assume it's due to flier utility that she wasn't. Looks awesome overall
Most of these changes don't incentivize more casual players. Making balance changes around the idea that everyone premotes at level 10 in a game where there is infinite easy grinding makes a lot of these changes nonfactors to players who are willing to use the tower. Adding crit bonus or the existing FE8 skills to certain classes would be a much greater incentive to these players than 1 point of speed on promotion. An example of this could be shifting Sure Shot away from Snipers (who really dont need it) and giving them either a crit bonus or Pierce instead. And then giving Sure Shot to a class with low skill/bad hit rate weapons like Druid That being said, I like the map changes, especially cutting down on 1 tile choke points
There's another option for Chapter 12 Eirika that could also make it less obnoxious while maintaining some of the flavor (in the form of "securing the area") which is to make it a seize map instead. It would be slightly more difficult to skip by just rushing Seth to the boss, because you still have to get Eirika there, so you have more of an incentive to clear out at least some more of the enemies, but also, seize flavor-wise is about taking control over the area by securing a particular strategic position. And given the area's proximity to Darkling Woods and the note of how much more aggressive the monsters have been lately, it doesn't make that much sense that you'd even be able to exterminate the roaming monster population in the fashion a rout map would suggest anyway, so securing fortifications makes even more sense. Also, any thoughts about maybe buffing the super trainees? Super Pupil having access to all magic types makes it an interesting option, but Super Recruit is very nearly just worse General, and Super Journeyman is straight-up just worse Berserker. The one other thing I'd want to do is fix the female mounted aid formula, but I don't know how difficult that would be. Still, if you could, it would give a genuine advantage to the low con on Tana, Vanessa, and Syrene relative to Cormag, and even give you the opportuinity to distribute a point or two of con to some or all of them to make the disparity between falcoknight and wyvern knight a little less punishing without hindering their rescue utility at all.
I won't lie, I kinda rolled my eyes at another Sacred Stones rework, cuz everyone seems to think they can "fix" this game in the weirdest ways. But they were mostly subtle actually entertainment centered changes. So I love a lot of this. One suggestion I would make is for 5x, you have the door that basically skips the corridor, but what if the small chest room that's by the spawn point got pushed up there instead? That way you're not forced down the long hallway for the main objective, but there's still a reason to go up there other than EXP.
Hey great video and I really like the changes, did you consider changing supports in any way? It’s usually pretty annoying to get supports in GBA so I was curious if you had any thoughts about that
Could you tell me how you swaped the C4 villages around to get Lute earlier? I'm trying it myself, but it's not working (I'm also making my own FE8 balance patch)
So I agree with all but one of these changes, I would have made great knight keep the 7 mov from the calviler class just cause it really bugged me that a better class lost move when going to promote. I feel this change would make it more balanced choice between GK and PAL and for general I would have given 1 more hp along with the others changes u already made, other then that love the rebalance.
I like most or these changes and will probably do a run on of it on one of my days off! I am wondering though if on your second pass through this could you experiment with enemy growth rates to make hard mode just a bit more substantial - maybe 5 to 10% more max? Allot of my vanilla Fe8 hard mode runs feel fun till I get to the late game and maps like Renae castle or Darkling Woods feel less impactfull because trained characters with supports shred everything. It could even be a gradual growth rate increase where it jumps to 5% more at the start of the route split, then 10% after the desert map.
If I'm not mistaken, the increased stats of enemies on hard mode aren't a matter of growths, and is instead a modifier added to the units' base stats on a map by map basis, so it's actually surprisingly easy to tweak the numbers exactly on the chapters you want them to be higher or lower. Just remember the hard mode bonuses also apply to recruitable enemy units (and also randomly to a couple recruitable units that don't start as enemies for some reason?).
Perhaps you could have the Super Recruit and Super Journeyman promotions buff con, since they don't give any in vanilla. Also it would be funny if Super Pupil also got staves for the epic Archsage Ewan.
I agree with Shtick; the point is to take what's already there and build upon it. I am still sad that Wyvern Lord gets no axes since that would further help differentiate it from Falco, but then that'd require going through every Wyvern Lord and making sure their inventories are properly usable and checking numbers to make sure they're not too overpowered, and it's all just a giant mess to wrangle ❤🩹
@@badcactus819 *That's* fair; Cormag seems like the type of guy who could do a shitton of damage and then fly away like the best of 'em 💖 Hell, he actually wouldn't even be *that* shabby at using axes cause getting 12 Con in WL means that he can wield Hand Axes with no Spd loss, Silvers same thing, Swordreavers or -slayers with only one point lost, and even fuckin GARM if you get his ax rank up, which is *insane* 😳 On top of already not losing Spd on Killers which is also very nice for his combat 💕 Although Garm's probably still best on someone like Garcia or Duessel, it's the thought that counts 💙
Sniper and Assassin need the crit bonus that Swordmaster and Berserker get. Sure Shot and Lethality don't offer them enough. Also basing balancing around promoting at level 10 asap isn't that great when you have the tower to grind. Not everyone is playing for efficiency.
My concerns in general Imo, Garcia ought to have higher skill base and growth, owing to his Jagen esque background as a general. His 40% growths in Luck and Skill are decent, but buffing them to 50% and giving each maybe a +2 would go a long way to making him feel better to use; it would also give an edge over Ross, who suffers a bit in the skill department, and makes Garcia less reliant on the Hatchet to be useful. Neimi can utilize the Thief XP bonus, and that would help her immensely (I recommend lowering her back to level 1 if you do this, as her being higher level than Colm feels odd). My own personal gripe, the Fiendcleaver is just kinda obnoxiously strong; Ross (Pirate) was able to OHKO the first Entombed with it, and while there's no practical use until the mid game for that, you can pass it to anyone with D rank axes, which turns out to be a lot of promoted people, and just enemy phase an absurd amount of the game. Instead, let me suggest a different axe to introduce; the Battle Axe! It's a lackluster piece of shit weapon, but dropping it early as a heavy mega damage dealer gives it a niche as your strongest weapon, especially since with my previous suggestion of Garcia buffs, Garcia would be able to use it to great effect (no speed loss, better hit rates, one big blast of damage). Lower it from B to C rank and he can use it at base. Ross can hypothetically use it, but he gets weighed down heavily and has worse Skill than his dad. It gives them both a sort of personal weapon! With the addition of extra objectives, I'd like to see certain maps reworked a little for more incentive to move faster or made harder; Castle Renvall is one of the worst maps in the game, and I think adding Cavaliers at the start to harangue the player would be nice, and adding some pegasus knights from the Castle so the damn Ballista see SOME use. Chapter 10 Eirika has fuck loads of Bandits but no villages to visit, so the inclusion of one with something minor like an Elixir, Blue Gem, etc could add pressure to spread out and make it more dangerous for you. Enemy weapons could be tweaked to be more interesting, adding Light Brands and Wind Swords earlier, or giving some enemies higher tier weapons at strategic points could be nice.
I’m surprised GK doesn’t get 7 mov, it would make the knight promotion choice more lopsided but the cavalier promotion is more relevant anyway, also giving l’arachel back her 7 mov as a troubadour would be ideal even if Valkyrie’s mov isn’t buffed. But if it was me I would just give all mounted units their standard mov without caring about balance lol
I'm quite new to FE in general but would like to use this hack on my first playthrough of FE8 since I played it as a child and appreciate the balance changes. I'm using Visual Boy Advance on my PC but am willing to use another method of emulating the game if need be; can someone point me in the right direction?
If you're playing Eirika route thats a mistake. Ephraim gets auto leveled if you don't use him. For me, regardless of the route I'm on, I feed everyone to Kyle. No one can really kill him and theres so much healing given to you.
The ch19 treasure room door doesn't seem to open. Pick command causes Rennac to just wait. The Door Key item is used up but the door stays closed. Unlock staff command is not available. Unfortunate way to lose the run, but it was an enjoyable mod overall!
I just would have turned l'archeal into a valkyrie and called it a day. The woman is literally on a crusade against evil and can't actually fight. Also, it would help to not have to staff grind so we actually have some viable warp users. I would also have given a huge level bump to Marisa. She is supposed to be one of the more skilled fighters in Gerik's unit (even maybe as good as him), and yet she comes in at level 5 and is weaker in every way. She wouldn't even be able to hold her own against the troops she frightened in her introduction. She needs to be a viable contender for that hero crest.
I think the reason L'arachel isn't a prepromote is for the same reason Gerik and Cormag aren't: The point is to be able to pick her promotion option, and because this game has so few total characters in the main game it actively encourages that idea. Of course for most characters there's only one valid promotion option anyway. That said, L'arachel probably should at least start no lower than Lv 8-9.
I know you mentioned not nerfing Seth (which I think is fine, Seth is an incredibly fun unit to use), but have you considered nerfing Javelins and Hand Axes (maybe just the FE3 way of making them incredibly heavy, but more accurate to compensate)? I can understand if that's not a part of your intended experience, but games with worse 1-2 range tend to have better sword units and end up being less enemy phase focused. It'd also make the remaining 1-2 range weapons (Short Spear, Spear, Hatchet, Tomahawk) stand out more which would be interesting for sure. Gilliam could probably stand to gain +1Spd so he can double 0Spd Revanants and not have worse combat than Colm in a map where you're ostensibly supposed to be able to train him. I don't see why the goal of Marisa is to be a low level training project. The game already has 3 other units who do that job better (actually even units like Tana do it better), and nothing about Marisa's lore implies that she'd be a low level unit. It's telling that new players are not drawn to Marisa for this and actually tend to avoid her because even to people who like training bad units, she is a worse Joshua who joins later and doesn't even have the decency of having better growths/caps. If anything, she'd make more sense being a high leveled myrmidon with better bases than Joshua (but probably a lower level than Gerik still). I think you should've reverted Gerik's CON to what it was in the original Japanese version (13). It's absolutely absurd that he has the same CON as Gonzales, no fucking way. This also actually lets him be rescued and is overall a buff. Speaking of the original Japanese version, reverting the Super Trainee caps is probably a good move too. I don't think anyone understands why those were nerfed. This isn't your change, but I never got why Swordmasters/Assassins never got Speed on promo. That's like, the whole point of those classes.
This looks great. The only thing stopping me from playing this is knowing that another draft will probably be coming out soon anyways. I'm just happy to see generals and snipers become more proper combat Gods.
Rebalancing FE is really fun, but I think buffing weak characters is not the correct strategy unless is very needed. I realize nerfing feels less exciting, but the issue is, the strong units are already so strong, that making everybody also strong just means you pick and choose a couple units at the start, and when they become strong enough to one round everybody you pretty much don´t need anyone else, which widens the gap even more unless you actively decide to train someone else. This is not a criticism to your buffs because I think they are sensible, I think those can even be used in combination with some nerfs for some of the units (Like Marissa is just way too bad). But I think having a bunch of flawed units makes for more interesting gameplay, so they can all work together to complete the map. Imo, making Seth weaker would do wonders for the gameplay. Something like first lowering his bases, and weapon rank so he doesn´t one round everything, still your strongest unit at the start, and one of your strongest units for the whole game. but not a god. And I like the idea of lowering his base RES to one, and his RES growth from 30% to 15% while also adding some magical enemies to almost every map. So you can´t just solo with him, and needs the help of other units. I would also nerf classes, like cavaliers can only use lances. To help sword locked units suck less I think making 1-2 ranges swords more common already goes a long way. Nothing crazy, just replace two of the shitty chest items with light brands. I would lower some bases a little bit here and there too. Seth is 90% of the reason why the game is too easy. But there are other units that could do with some nerfs. Orson just because of consistency reason, he is not supposed to be stronger than Seth. Franz I would lower his str and defense by 1 point, and HP by two, as well as lowering the Spd growth by 10%. I think Vanessa is strong but fine because she is flawed so I wouldn´t change her. I would drop Cormag level and bases in proportion by like 2 on Ephraim route, on Eirika I´ll leave him unchanged. Kyle I would lower his speed growth by 10%, I feel otherwise he would become much better than Franz and Forde with just a couple level ups. I think these nerfs would change the way you think about your formerly bad units, from liabilities to flawed units that still have their uses. I think that´s better than patching their flaws.
Feel like I need to learn how to make my own balance patch for FE8. Really wanna just tweak some things that are annoying, or nonsensical, like Great Knights losing movement on promotion. Also upping the support conversation cap And cranking up the difficulty *significantly* And fixing the *WILDLY* inconsistent and frankly nonsensical CON and Aid values 🤦
just now finishing up my first real run through sacred stones thanks to your propaganda, and i gotta mention that the rebalance seems to have one glaring omission- which is that the short spear weighs more than the spear??? hoW???? it's literally the same thing but shorter and that... somehow makes it heavier? Jokes aside, i'll be sure to keep this hack in mind in case i ever wanna replay the game!
Should I play this? I've played a little bit of the original sacred stones, and I've noticed I can just throw Seth to everything. And no, I haven't played the rest of fire emblems but the one with Lynn
I mean, go play *through* SS first (ideally at least once on both routes), then other Fire Emblems, *then* this. Also, the one with Lyn is called "Blazing Sword" ☝🤓
Weaker stuft is never going yo be more appealing whitout nerfing things. You either play slow or play fast: -if you play slow everything is very viable in Sacred Stones and most units already have a good feeling once you overload them -if you play fast the game would be dominated by more or less the same units because the other ones need a mountain of buffs to catch up. And even if you do that, playing with 12 seth seem like i may as well bring out the Gameshark. It is fundamentally a flawed premise in an easy game like SS. It would be a good philosophy for, for example, Thracia 776 because combat units blend together to begin with, or in a game like SD, where only a handful of characters are actually viable and the limited Master Seal aviability makes impossible to make an army of gods. But not for a game like this.
I fundamentally disagree that no units feel bad in vanilla sacred stones. Eirika is failing to double and getting two shot in chapter 2, Marisa feels awful to use on join. Just because they feel ok after their training arc doesn't mean there's no time where they feel bad. In fast play I agree that not much changes but I think that's fine. I said as much in the video, the goal was to adjust annoyances I have with vanilla sacred stones, not change what the LTC looks like. What's wrong with giving units like Marisa a slightly stronger start for people that want to use her?
@@actuallizardthere is wrong that SS is a joke of a game difficulty wise so to me the first rule of a rebalance would be "do not make it any easier". Eirika dieing in 2 hits in chapter 2 is the one think keeping it remotely interesting to play if you ask me. A lot of the game is only kept engaging because you are attempting to train scrubs, take that away and the little fun i can have in that game goes away.
@@noukan42I don't think every rebalance needs to alter where the difficulty lies - vanilla SS is easy but that's fine for newer or more casual players. Most people playing romhacks will be veterans, of course, but there's an argument for making a rebalance as if it was going to replace the original game. And sometimes I just want to win without feeling like I'm going to constantly screw myself over unless I play absolutely optimally.
@@Rainbro359 but nerfing nothing and buffing do alter the balance by making the game easier. I am not advocating of that, i am advocating for keeping the difficulty the same by nerfing as much as you buff.
Buddy, who genuinely cares? This is *his* rebalance; he can do just about anything he wants. Hell, it's honestly pretty generous that he's even letting us play this because this is a rebalance for *him,* a rebalance that fixes annoyances *he* has with Sacred Stones, not *your* annoyances. You can't expect people to bend themselves around you like you're the Sun in our solar system. Let him have his fun, and if you want the stuff you're asking for, then maybe *you* should pick up FEBuilder and try this kind of thing yourself. Besides, while it's not quite as robust as I think it could've been (at least in terms of taking the existing stuff and beefing it up a bit, not adding entirely new systems like skills or Thracia trading etc, and also considering what he's already cooked up before, especially with the promotion options like the ones he did with Akira), it's still a damn good rebalance and (to my knowledge) the only one of its kind that I've seen; every other SS hack just makes way too many changes that betray the SS experience, unlike this. In conclusion: Don't be cringe 🙂👍
Someone pointed out a bug to me that I didn't catch!
In chapter 6, if you let the story play out, the game crashes because the party tries to walk over the new village. I'm going to get started on fixing this, but in the mean time, if you skip the scene the bug doesn't happen (this is why I didn't notice, I skipped the scene during testing).
I'm going to fix that up and re test the other maps I changed to make sure the story is working in those as well.
Bug fixed! I updated the link in the description with the new ups. Checking out the other maps tonight, but I think they should be ok.
Heya I wanted to inform you of a new bug I discovered in chapter 19: Last Hope. I am playing on Visual boy Advance and I think its the PAL rom of FE 8 I patched but I am not sure.
Regardless, the western chest room is inaccessible. This is because, despite trying with Eirika with doorkeys and using Rennac's pick skill, I cannot open the door.
When Eirika had a door key in her inventory the option door did not appear; going to item and trying to use it like that revealed that there was no door to use it on. With Rennac and the Rogue's pick skill its different: he can open the door, but like a cartoon another door appears and there is no way through. Dancing on the same turn and picking the lock leads to the same comical situation. I dont know if you will read this but I wonder what your and other people's thoughts are on this!
As a fellow dev, I just wanted you to know - bugs are truly inevitable on any non-trivial software.
Like, there is really no need to feel down about bugs!
Guess this mod is called Seth and friends but better friends
11:09 Ever feel like God looked down, considered buffing you, but decided your bad luck was too funny to change?
Quite a lot.
Erika getting 1-2 with Sigliende like Ike with Ragnell makes so much sense yeah
>says nothing was nerfed.
>Nerfed Great Knight's RES.
#Justice4GrratKnight
Grrat
the res that they'll never get close to capping without stat boosters anyway
Quick thought on giving Neimi paragon, the same effect could be done by making tje female archer class have a different.. I believe it's the 'power' rating. Basically it's the reason some classes like theif get more xp and promoted classes get less. You could just make her class gain xp like a theif which would help her level faster.
I agree; a lower Class Relative Power (CRP) would fix her experience issue, plus it makes sense considering she's "friends" with Colm, who also has a lower CRP than other characters. Plus, it'd set her apart as the only Archer/Sniper/Ranger with this ability (and you don't even need the Skill System patch for it :3) 💕
One thing about your thought process, though: The reason Thieves get more XP and promoted units get less is not due to their CRP (while Thief does only have 2, everyone else, including Rogue and 🍑🍑in, actually have the standard 3), but because of their abilities. In FEBuilder, the XP thing is tied to checkboxes in the Class Editor (which can also be accessed on the Character Editor, lol), and you only need to check them and boom. This is especially important for Thief since it's also baked in with the usual Thief stuff like picking locks and extra FoW vision. It's slightly annoying but manageable and awesome 😎
this sounds like a great idea. i heard some classes like bishops get extra exp
A couple thoughts, though mostly inconsequential:
- Sieglinde is titled the "Storm Blade", so the Thunder or Bolting animation might work better for its 2-range magic animation.
- You can give unpromoted Neimi a pseudo-Paragon effect by reducing female Archer's Class Relative Power from 3 to 2, which would let her gain EXP at a boosted rate similar to GBAFE Thieves without affecting enemy Archers (since they're all male). The effect isn't as drastic as Paragon, since it's more like 130%~150% EXP rather than 200%, but it can be done without the Skill System.
I like both these suggestions! I didn't even think about that for neimi but it's a great idea, I think I'll add it. Thanks :)
Fun fact: The sacred Twin weapons are named after twins named Sieglinde and Siegmund in a German Opera called Die Walküre. (First performed in 1870 so its pretty old.) They are twins separated at childhood and fall in love without knowing their related.
This is just a pretty cool fact and the main reason why I wouldn't want Sieglindes name to change.
@@lspuria8440I don't think they're proposing that the name be changed. The "storm blade" is just Sieglinde's other name, like how Siegmund is the "fire lance," Audhulma is the "ice blade," Vidofnir is the "winged lance," Garm is the "black axe," and Nidhogg is the "serpent bow" (the magic Sacred Twins don't get the same treatment). I think it's in their flavor text?
@@ProbablyNotOnFire yeah thanks. I definitely misunderstood.
These are some cool changes. I'd like to talk about L'Arachel, though.
Increasing her level is cool and all. It lets you promote her much quicker. But I'm not exactly a fan of not upping her bases. Her bases on the whole aren't impressive even at Lv6 on average, so I don't think it would have hurt to have given her Lv6 average bases. I get she's mainly used for horse staffbot utility, but some casual players might want to use her for combat. If Neimi was given average stats for her new base level, I think L'Arachel should be given the same treatment.
I always S rank Light magic on L'Arachel. It just feels canon, and her appearances outside of Sacred Stones would agree.
...In fact, by upping her base level, that means less exp is going to Staves before reaching promotion (do think 3 character levels is more than a full rank of Staff exp if I remember correctly), so that's technically more incentive to make her a combat unit instead of utility, which makes not improving her stats an even bigger slight in that context.
@@Shalakor Agreed. There were some other characters that accidently got nerfed. (Garcia comes to mind here. He should have +2 HP at least.) But I feel like of the unit changes, L'Arachel definitely got dealt the worst hand here.
"I always felt that Purge on a reinforcement felt a little mean on this map." - Hubert would like to know your location.
This is a really light touch, but those can be nice when you want to do something like an otherwise vanilla draft or just have a bit more fun. If you're open to larger changes in the next version, I always liked the idea of balancing Seth by changing nothing else about him but having him go with the other lord at the route split. You have to learn/train to fend without him over the prologue, and then once he gets back his endgame level bases means he can slot right back in alongside everyone else.
Yeah I may do another for larger changes (including a Seth nerf), but ultimately I already love fe8, it's my favorite game of all time, so I wanted to make something that keeps everything I love, but just patches up the few annoyances I have with the game.
Huh. That "Seth leaves" idea is pretty cool
Seth going with the other Lord would be a huge change. That would probably make Sacred Stones a lot harder overall. Could be interesting!
@@actuallizard I don't think Seth needs a nerf of any kind. He's an excelent unit for sure, but what makes him stand so highly above his peers is the low quality of your army and generally easier difficulty level of Sacred Stones. i don't think nerfing something in a single player game is conducive to it being more fun, since single player games don't do well when you remove options from them like making Seth weaker or outright force-removing him. I think more than anything, you need to take a second pass on your army and maybe even take a pass to improve on enemy quality. Better base stats, better equipment, more enemy variety especially in the early chapters. Stronger bosses. Maybe even apply the FE6 scaling HMB system. Also maybe take a look at Ephraim's route. This rebalance is has too light a touch to fix the issues with Sacred Stones.
You want to place a nerf on Seth? Here's a few options that won't ruin his theme: A) Replace the Steel Sword with a Steel Blade in his starting inventory. This will reduce his SPD by 3 points...hell up the weight by 2 on it to reduce his AS further if you feel like it's necessary. B) Improve enemy quality early on...put faster enemies on the early maps like mercenaries, myrms and faster cavs. That way Seth won't be hitting doubling thresholds as often with only 9 effective AS early on:
I really love how you considered flavor when making these changes. I think it's easy for veteran Fire Emblem players to focus on numbers and stats (and map clear speed) above everything else, but while that stuff is obviously important, I always like it when people try to consider what new players, or just people invested in the story or characters might pay attention to, also. Elements like "the fantasy of this class" are really important for people who aren't experienced enough to scrutinize small numerical differences, so even if something is still sub-optimal, I think it's important that it at least delivers on what it seems to promise the player. It's good for players to feel good about the units they've invested a lot of exp into, even if some take more effort than others.
And I was just generally happy to see the consideration for why certain items might be obtained in certain locations beyond how it benefits the player to have them.
Yeah I think the flavor is important, ultimately the storytelling is a big part of why I like Fire Emblem!
@@actuallizard Actually, this just made me think, maybe the shortcut in 5x should be a cracked wall instead of a door? The design of the castle and the placement of the defending soldiers doesn't really make sense with a door there. Uncertain if you might need to tweak some AI types to keep some of the enemies from attacking it, though.
+2 level for Garcia for only +1 Skl and Def is actually a nerf tho..
This is such a cool patch! I can’t wait to play ephraim mode with it!
FE8 is a very popular game within my friend group, pretty much all of us enjoy the game quite a bit. One of them is a big fan of the branching promotions on this game so this patch will probably be very fun for them. For me, I enjoy patches that put this game’s difficulty more in line with something like FE6 hard mode where the game is challenging but still fun for casual players. FE8 is a very fun game and it should stay that way
I think the beauty of sacred stones is it being Seth and Friends 🤣
If you ever do it again, you should use the rebalanced classes from when you balanced the promo options with Akira
He probably didn't do it mostly so he doesn't have to implement new skills into the game
Yeah, this is meant to be a more traditional rebalance. No Skill System and all that it entails, no new classes that wildly throw off game balance, etc. Just a regular ol' facelift 💕 Though it would be cool since basically everybody plays FE8 with the Skill System anyways 🙃
My largest complaint with great knight has always been that it just feels abysmal to go from 7 move on a Cav down to 6. When I messed around with FE editing in the past, I always liked Great Knight having 7 as well so it never felt like a movement downgrade and more worth considering compared to Pally's 8 move.
I suppose this rears it's head against general, but as you said, making it a combat powerhouse makes sense, but I'd probably also innately give them base C rank in all weapon types for triangle control. To make up for GK having 7 now compared to 6.
This is a lot of really cool adjusting. I never considered moving Lute to the near village, and I especially like the way you turned lame rewards into nice ones.
Isn't giving Garcia 2 levels that are so bad (1 stat each) basically just a nerf to his overall potential? You didn't even give him statistic average levels which would be 2 hp and at least 1 str.
Especially since being closer to promotion doesn't help much when the first hero crest is in chapter 10. This makes him slightly better if you're benching him after 3 chapters but just worse if you plan on actually using him.
Here's an idea I've seen floated before, in regards to Generals(if possible):
To solve some of their issues with movement, while allowing them to make the most of their fighting and tanking abilities, give them the ability to treat allies as terrain that does not cost them any movement tiles. This lets them easily get into position with a bit of help from the others, and also, on Defense maps, reposition swiftly to bring their durability and weapon triangle dominance to where it's needed most.
This seems well thought out and quite fun! I'll have to try your changes out!
So I think the idea of adding more enemies who specifically exist to give Seth pause is by far the best way to nerf Seth. I'm all for the one dude with a zanbato.
love this channel so happy i found it.
I'm working on something similar for FE 7 in the FE 8 rom, so this is going to be a great watch!
love a cute lil qol of changes that makes the game more fun. hope to see bigger rebalances in the future as i really enjoy your takes and opinions on the balancing of fun and power fantasy but still making the game challenging and requiring thought
Love to see it! Ill have to download it and give it a playthrough!
Focus on playing and tweaking Ephraim's route if you want to do another pass on this. I know you just like Erica's route more but part of the reason you might not like Ephraim's route as much is the kinda things some tweaks might fix.
6:30 Very interesting thought process. Although I gotta say, if I only got 1 point into 2 stats over 2 levels I would consider that underperforming if the trend continued. Maybe add a point in something relatively inconsequential like hp or luck. Probably hp for fighter Garcia, fits the class' strengths instead of giving him extra hit rate via luck stat.
As someone who is recreating FE8 in Lex, it's always interesting to see what other people think of FE8. 😊
I love you approach from the jump - don't nerf anything, and definitely not Seth. Seth's entire unit identity is being HIM. He's HIM, he's always been HIM, he will continue to be HIM, and it would be a shame to lose any of that.
But then you shouldn't even fo a rebalance in the first place because no unit actually need buff if you are willing to play slow, and if you aren't Seth is going to dominate the game anyway.
Sacred Stones is already comically easy, a no nerf rebalance is just making it go from a joke to "may as well be phoenix mode".
@@noukan42I do agree, there's a place for rebalances like this though. But if you want something more radical I'd recommend checking out The Princess's Lament which both rebalances the playable cast and increases the difficult by buffing enemy offences. This and some other changes means you can't just give Seth a javelin and send him in to enemy phase everything. It's a great hack.
I’m pleasantly surprised by how subtle these changes are. I really appreciate that the goal here was to make quality of live improvements to the vanilla game rather than a complete reimagining, if you do make more dramatic changes though I look forward to hearing what you change and why.
Hi Lizard!
These kinds of videos are my favorite.
I like a lot of the changes, but I would personally do a little more for some of the bad units, and some of the changes felt really weird to me. What's the point in raising Garcia's base level? I get that it fits the flavor, but he's already higher level than the other non-seth units, and has no issue reaching promotion level. If anything it feels like he's been slightly nerfed, since he now gains exp ever so slightly slower and has very little to show for it. If you want to commit to this change, I would advise giving him the stats to match his increased level, just like you did with Neimi.
looking at the title alone, and knowing your previous content, im very excited to check this out. might even do it as the next FE8 playthrough on my channel!
Since you didn't do anything with Ephraim route, I've taken it upon myself to do it
First thing that always annoyed me was how Phantom Ship isn't very re-playable. My strat for it is to send Seth across the North bridge, Dussel across the South with Ephraim to recruit La'rachel. Cormag deals with the Gargoyles. And Lute deals with the Mogalls. On my first time through it, I had a lot of fun having to re-direct some units from the middle boat to deal with the reinforcements, but now that I know what's coming, they're just annoying. Now, my solution would be to have the reinforcements show up sooner, this makes it so that your army is SOMEWHAT in the area and it's not as annoying.
Next thing has to do with "Turning Traitor". When the earthquake hit, I thought there'd be a neat map gimic, but no. So maybe every few turns there'd be an earthquake that would shift a few units around (except fliers). But I'm not sure if FE Builder will let you do this.
For "Fluorspar's Oath", I'd make more enemies aggressive. Even on my first playthrough, I could easily bait a few enemies at a time and I don't like that. Narrative wise, I think it fits too because Selena is supposed to be a feared general, yet, her strategy doesn't scare me.
Now, this might be a little to big of a change for a re-balance, but it's a change that I really think need to be made.
I'd add another chapter in between "Fluorspar's Oath" and "Father and Son". For me, the narrative was really hurt by the fact that Ephraim and company just walk into the Grado castle unopposed. I haven't thought about map design but thought about adding a new character along with it. Now, this would also mean another chapter and character would have to be added to Erika route, hence why it's a little to big for a balance patch.
Lastly, on "Scorched Sand" I'd add two Frelian paladins that join the lord who's path you didn't take. It doesn't sit right with me how you see NO units from Frelia when the kingdom's best supposedly rides with the other lord.
I would like to mention I have not played Sacred Stones that much and no where near as much as Lizard has. So if you have any thoughts and/or corrections, let me hear them
Have the map be a fight outside the gates of Grado castle. It always bothered me that we have scenes of the castle and buildings surrounding it but never actually get to fight to the castle.
@@joshuabonesteel2303 The interesting thing is that there's an arnpry near the castle. You can see it in a few cut scenes. So I wonder if IS was going to do something like that but didn't
Y'know, I love playing this alongside Mekkah's 60% better enemy growths (growth × 1.6 that is). It's a more challenging game and the changes encourage me to use the non horse promos to keep up! Eirika also still doesn't get two shot, which is incredible, and she does good in combat
Adding unit and class skills would be a good addition for future versions. And maybe take a note or two from project ember and the newer games and add 1-2 range shortbows and make other bows 2-3 range so footlocked archers not named Innes can actually do something useful
eh not really, especially within what this rebalance does. bows becoming 2-3 range wouldn't suddenly make archers strong because getting countered in SS rarely matters. they're still floundering when in a game full of weak enemies where having an effective EP is more important. its taking smthn from project ember without the other aspects that made any of those work for some people. for archers to really be doing anything useful they'd need to be more often put in a position where 2-3 range matters and isnt just slightly convenient.
fe8 would need quite a bit of changeups to not just be putting a system the game itself wasnt designed for (and absolutely out of the scope/goals to this)
I think you should make a rom hack or balance patch where I can access all supports in a single play through
Lol I think you forgot to mention what you put in the extra village at 22:27. I love the L'Arachel changes! I always just grind her exp with torch staves in skirmish maps to get her to level 6 or 7 when I recruit her anyway
It's a goddess icon! I did forget to mention it though lol
@@actuallizardIf you're open to adding the cut monster-effective weapons, when I made an fe8 rebalance in the past I put a bright lance in the chapter 6 village instead of the antitoxin. It mostly has applications for slower methodical playthroughs where you're training up units and not blitzing with Seth, but it gives Vanessa an option to reliably kill the spider before it kills the civilians on the right of the map, so I thought it was a good placement for it.
Personally, when doing a tightening up pass and if you want to keep the other route in mind a bit, the first extra change I'd recommend is giving Erika +5% growths in Spd and Res. The Res is so her Def and Res growths remain a reversal of her brother's (comparitive -10/+10 instead of the original -5/+5), while the Spd is mostly for the flavor of keeping her base growth total the same as her original, since it really won't change her mid nor late game speed for the most part (or you can just forgo the nerf to HP growth, since you mentioned playtesting was still showing her to be squishy enough for it to maybe do no harm).
Plenty of people have already mentioned how to up Neimi's exp gain without the skills patch, so that's neat.
...Eh, I was going to think of more stuff, but had to go to bed and now not motivated to.
When you brought up the assasin buff to swordmaster, i was waiting to hear about how it would effect the thief(colm) promotion choice.
This is exactly what I wanted out of a Sacred Stones rebalance. Minimal but meaningful. Most of the rebalances add a bit too many bells and whistles for my personal taste, so I really like these changes that make things slightly more rewarding and toning down some of the more annoying bits. I usually go Ephraim route, but this makes me want to give Eirika route a try!
I think a fun change would be to buff up the enemies in the late game a but, especially Lyon and the final boss. I think it would make for a much more fun and rewarding experience for everyone who has already played the vanilla game.
I always thought Seth may only need a shift in power budget to not be as dominating as he is. Like since he's supposed to be wounded by valter I think giving lower but still good bases in exchange for slightly worse bases he gets better growth. My rationale is that he's still young and in his prime but his fight against valter made him weaker but he recovers as the game goes on.
I dont know how this would affect the game overall but I think it could be worth trying ?
Big fan of all the changes, and i appreciate the buffs over nerfs approach! I am however surprised Valkyrie saw no changes, as when compared to Bishop and Mage Knight its just the worse option
Isn't it exactly even stats and ranks with Mage Knight? It basically exists as the class to use the S Rank Light Tome with, since the effectiveness doesn't stack with Slayer.
Edit: No, wait, yeah, needs C rank in Light magic at least.
This is dope for sure. One character ran through my mind (Syrene) and I was surprised she wasn't in the upgrade breakdown due to her mediocrity, but I assume it's due to flier utility that she wasn't. Looks awesome overall
Most of these changes don't incentivize more casual players. Making balance changes around the idea that everyone premotes at level 10 in a game where there is infinite easy grinding makes a lot of these changes nonfactors to players who are willing to use the tower.
Adding crit bonus or the existing FE8 skills to certain classes would be a much greater incentive to these players than 1 point of speed on promotion. An example of this could be shifting Sure Shot away from Snipers (who really dont need it) and giving them either a crit bonus or Pierce instead. And then giving Sure Shot to a class with low skill/bad hit rate weapons like Druid
That being said, I like the map changes, especially cutting down on 1 tile choke points
There's another option for Chapter 12 Eirika that could also make it less obnoxious while maintaining some of the flavor (in the form of "securing the area") which is to make it a seize map instead. It would be slightly more difficult to skip by just rushing Seth to the boss, because you still have to get Eirika there, so you have more of an incentive to clear out at least some more of the enemies, but also, seize flavor-wise is about taking control over the area by securing a particular strategic position. And given the area's proximity to Darkling Woods and the note of how much more aggressive the monsters have been lately, it doesn't make that much sense that you'd even be able to exterminate the roaming monster population in the fashion a rout map would suggest anyway, so securing fortifications makes even more sense.
Also, any thoughts about maybe buffing the super trainees? Super Pupil having access to all magic types makes it an interesting option, but Super Recruit is very nearly just worse General, and Super Journeyman is straight-up just worse Berserker.
The one other thing I'd want to do is fix the female mounted aid formula, but I don't know how difficult that would be. Still, if you could, it would give a genuine advantage to the low con on Tana, Vanessa, and Syrene relative to Cormag, and even give you the opportuinity to distribute a point or two of con to some or all of them to make the disparity between falcoknight and wyvern knight a little less punishing without hindering their rescue utility at all.
What, no +1 speed to Gilliam? He still cannot double 0 AS soldiers at base. Bad unit smh.
Yeah, but his whole gimmick as an Armor Knight is that he sets up kills for the scrubs so they can grow (plus, who genuinely uses Gilliam anyway?)
Personally I love Gilliam, used him as a kid and still do!
Kind of curious on how this would be with that lunatic mode thing mekkah did with fe8 awhile ago.
6:18 so you incress 2 lvl and only give 2 points on stats?
the point was make him weaker?
Garcia should have base 10 strength to make up the increased base level.
I won't lie, I kinda rolled my eyes at another Sacred Stones rework, cuz everyone seems to think they can "fix" this game in the weirdest ways. But they were mostly subtle actually entertainment centered changes. So I love a lot of this. One suggestion I would make is for 5x, you have the door that basically skips the corridor, but what if the small chest room that's by the spawn point got pushed up there instead? That way you're not forced down the long hallway for the main objective, but there's still a reason to go up there other than EXP.
Hey great video and I really like the changes, did you consider changing supports in any way? It’s usually pretty annoying to get supports in GBA so I was curious if you had any thoughts about that
Could you tell me how you swaped the C4 villages around to get Lute earlier? I'm trying it myself, but it's not working (I'm also making my own FE8 balance patch)
So I agree with all but one of these changes, I would have made great knight keep the 7 mov from the calviler class just cause it really bugged me that a better class lost move when going to promote. I feel this change would make it more balanced choice between GK and PAL and for general I would have given 1 more hp along with the others changes u already made, other then that love the rebalance.
I thought the Sieg-sword is called the storm sword, I always gave it the Bolting animation.
I like most or these changes and will probably do a run on of it on one of my days off! I am wondering though if on your second pass through this could you experiment with enemy growth rates to make hard mode just a bit more substantial - maybe 5 to 10% more max? Allot of my vanilla Fe8 hard mode runs feel fun till I get to the late game and maps like Renae castle or Darkling Woods feel less impactfull because trained characters with supports shred everything. It could even be a gradual growth rate increase where it jumps to 5% more at the start of the route split, then 10% after the desert map.
If I'm not mistaken, the increased stats of enemies on hard mode aren't a matter of growths, and is instead a modifier added to the units' base stats on a map by map basis, so it's actually surprisingly easy to tweak the numbers exactly on the chapters you want them to be higher or lower. Just remember the hard mode bonuses also apply to recruitable enemy units (and also randomly to a couple recruitable units that don't start as enemies for some reason?).
Perhaps you could have the Super Recruit and Super Journeyman promotions buff con, since they don't give any in vanilla. Also it would be funny if Super Pupil also got staves for the epic Archsage Ewan.
If Super Pupil gets Staves, the others could maybe get Swords or Bows?
Any reason you didnt give wyvern lord axes?
i assume it's because of animations
That would go against the philosophy of the rebalance, I think.
I agree with Shtick; the point is to take what's already there and build upon it. I am still sad that Wyvern Lord gets no axes since that would further help differentiate it from Falco, but then that'd require going through every Wyvern Lord and making sure their inventories are properly usable and checking numbers to make sure they're not too overpowered, and it's all just a giant mess to wrangle ❤🩹
@athenabaer3185 that's fair. Just thought it would further lean into the bulky, burst damage role that Wyvern Lord could fill
@@badcactus819 *That's* fair; Cormag seems like the type of guy who could do a shitton of damage and then fly away like the best of 'em 💖 Hell, he actually wouldn't even be *that* shabby at using axes cause getting 12 Con in WL means that he can wield Hand Axes with no Spd loss, Silvers same thing, Swordreavers or -slayers with only one point lost, and even fuckin GARM if you get his ax rank up, which is *insane* 😳 On top of already not losing Spd on Killers which is also very nice for his combat 💕 Although Garm's probably still best on someone like Garcia or Duessel, it's the thought that counts 💙
What's in the new chapter 6 village?
A goddess icon! So we can patch up one unit that suffers from sacred stones epidemic of bad luck 😅
Sniper and Assassin need the crit bonus that Swordmaster and Berserker get. Sure Shot and Lethality don't offer them enough. Also basing balancing around promoting at level 10 asap isn't that great when you have the tower to grind. Not everyone is playing for efficiency.
My concerns in general
Imo, Garcia ought to have higher skill base and growth, owing to his Jagen esque background as a general. His 40% growths in Luck and Skill are decent, but buffing them to 50% and giving each maybe a +2 would go a long way to making him feel better to use; it would also give an edge over Ross, who suffers a bit in the skill department, and makes Garcia less reliant on the Hatchet to be useful.
Neimi can utilize the Thief XP bonus, and that would help her immensely (I recommend lowering her back to level 1 if you do this, as her being higher level than Colm feels odd).
My own personal gripe, the Fiendcleaver is just kinda obnoxiously strong; Ross (Pirate) was able to OHKO the first Entombed with it, and while there's no practical use until the mid game for that, you can pass it to anyone with D rank axes, which turns out to be a lot of promoted people, and just enemy phase an absurd amount of the game.
Instead, let me suggest a different axe to introduce; the Battle Axe! It's a lackluster piece of shit weapon, but dropping it early as a heavy mega damage dealer gives it a niche as your strongest weapon, especially since with my previous suggestion of Garcia buffs, Garcia would be able to use it to great effect (no speed loss, better hit rates, one big blast of damage). Lower it from B to C rank and he can use it at base. Ross can hypothetically use it, but he gets weighed down heavily and has worse Skill than his dad. It gives them both a sort of personal weapon!
With the addition of extra objectives, I'd like to see certain maps reworked a little for more incentive to move faster or made harder; Castle Renvall is one of the worst maps in the game, and I think adding Cavaliers at the start to harangue the player would be nice, and adding some pegasus knights from the Castle so the damn Ballista see SOME use.
Chapter 10 Eirika has fuck loads of Bandits but no villages to visit, so the inclusion of one with something minor like an Elixir, Blue Gem, etc could add pressure to spread out and make it more dangerous for you.
Enemy weapons could be tweaked to be more interesting, adding Light Brands and Wind Swords earlier, or giving some enemies higher tier weapons at strategic points could be nice.
Cavalier reinforcements***
aight so it’s next up on the list after unicorn overlord for sure, been wanting to get back into fe8
After having played some hacks with added Skills I find the lack of it quite boring TBH
I love these small touch up style patches so much. Glad to see another one to sink my teeth into.
Not only do we have funi halberd guy but we also have funi zanbato guy now
>Eirika and L'archel holding hands in the thumbnail
We know what you are-
I’m surprised GK doesn’t get 7 mov, it would make the knight promotion choice more lopsided but the cavalier promotion is more relevant anyway, also giving l’arachel back her 7 mov as a troubadour would be ideal even if Valkyrie’s mov isn’t buffed. But if it was me I would just give all mounted units their standard mov without caring about balance lol
-also to be consistent wouldn’t you add the 5x door to ch 8 too-
I'm quite new to FE in general but would like to use this hack on my first playthrough of FE8 since I played it as a child and appreciate the balance changes. I'm using Visual Boy Advance on my PC but am willing to use another method of emulating the game if need be; can someone point me in the right direction?
Amelia is now even funnier in General
Generally speaking low movement is bad
Generally speaking, investing enough to fully promote a recruit that shows up that fucking late is also bad.
But it's funny.
@@lsrrr3857 General is better for route maps now, though.
Or for holding enemy waves alone while you get yummy bonus objectives
@@lsrrr3857 I think generals should get truly ridiculous growths in most combat stats to offset the fact that they can't actually reach anything
@@lsrrr3857 Just use the Boots on her, duh!
Wait. People use Orson to set up kills in 5x? I just always solo the entire map with Ephraim.
If you're playing Eirika route thats a mistake. Ephraim gets auto leveled if you don't use him. For me, regardless of the route I'm on, I feed everyone to Kyle. No one can really kill him and theres so much healing given to you.
@@ThatGuyThai Thing is that I really, really do not care about Kyle and Forde. Never used either of them and never will.
@@corhydrae3238 they're underrated but I get it. Franz was heralded for ages.
@@ThatGuyThaiBest I can do is Great Knight Gilliam.
I honestly don't like any of the cavs in this game.
@@corhydrae3238 interesting lol
What's wrong with Ephraim mode? 😔
Too hard for most fe8 enjoyers 😂
I think it's just the monster ship and Grado castle levels that drag it down significantly. Overall I think Eirika has worse maps though.
I'm never using the ch6 Orion's Bolt no matter how good Neimi is. That's Javelin money right there.
What are you using the file with? I use the myboy emulator on my phone but it doesnt read that file type.
Did you keep the Mov reduction on promotion to great knight?
A SACRED STONES VIDEO IN 2024 WHAT KIND OF MIRACLE IS THISSSS!!!??!?!??!!!?!!?!??
The ch19 treasure room door doesn't seem to open. Pick command causes Rennac to just wait. The Door Key item is used up but the door stays closed. Unlock staff command is not available.
Unfortunate way to lose the run, but it was an enjoyable mod overall!
I just would have turned l'archeal into a valkyrie and called it a day. The woman is literally on a crusade against evil and can't actually fight. Also, it would help to not have to staff grind so we actually have some viable warp users. I would also have given a huge level bump to Marisa. She is supposed to be one of the more skilled fighters in Gerik's unit (even maybe as good as him), and yet she comes in at level 5 and is weaker in every way. She wouldn't even be able to hold her own against the troops she frightened in her introduction. She needs to be a viable contender for that hero crest.
I think the reason L'arachel isn't a prepromote is for the same reason Gerik and Cormag aren't:
The point is to be able to pick her promotion option, and because this game has so few total characters in the main game it actively encourages that idea. Of course for most characters there's only one valid promotion option anyway.
That said, L'arachel probably should at least start no lower than Lv 8-9.
should have given garcia an buff and raise all his stats by 2 alongside raising his level by 2.
For some reason I'm sure I would play unoptimal and just farming support
project dark still best fe8 rebalance
I know you mentioned not nerfing Seth (which I think is fine, Seth is an incredibly fun unit to use), but have you considered nerfing Javelins and Hand Axes (maybe just the FE3 way of making them incredibly heavy, but more accurate to compensate)? I can understand if that's not a part of your intended experience, but games with worse 1-2 range tend to have better sword units and end up being less enemy phase focused. It'd also make the remaining 1-2 range weapons (Short Spear, Spear, Hatchet, Tomahawk) stand out more which would be interesting for sure.
Gilliam could probably stand to gain +1Spd so he can double 0Spd Revanants and not have worse combat than Colm in a map where you're ostensibly supposed to be able to train him.
I don't see why the goal of Marisa is to be a low level training project. The game already has 3 other units who do that job better (actually even units like Tana do it better), and nothing about Marisa's lore implies that she'd be a low level unit. It's telling that new players are not drawn to Marisa for this and actually tend to avoid her because even to people who like training bad units, she is a worse Joshua who joins later and doesn't even have the decency of having better growths/caps. If anything, she'd make more sense being a high leveled myrmidon with better bases than Joshua (but probably a lower level than Gerik still).
I think you should've reverted Gerik's CON to what it was in the original Japanese version (13). It's absolutely absurd that he has the same CON as Gonzales, no fucking way. This also actually lets him be rescued and is overall a buff. Speaking of the original Japanese version, reverting the Super Trainee caps is probably a good move too. I don't think anyone understands why those were nerfed.
This isn't your change, but I never got why Swordmasters/Assassins never got Speed on promo. That's like, the whole point of those classes.
This looks great. The only thing stopping me from playing this is knowing that another draft will probably be coming out soon anyways.
I'm just happy to see generals and snipers become more proper combat Gods.
Hearing people who promote their units before level 20 makes my skin crawl.
Youre the weird one for doing so
what do you think the chances of them remaking the wii fire emblem games radiant dawn and path of radiant
You mean GameCube?
...Better hope so, with how sparse is the availability of those game disks.
Should have specified gba and wii I played the wii one first so I default whe talking about that era of the games
Rebalancing FE is really fun, but I think buffing weak characters is not the correct strategy unless is very needed. I realize nerfing feels less exciting, but the issue is, the strong units are already so strong, that making everybody also strong just means you pick and choose a couple units at the start, and when they become strong enough to one round everybody you pretty much don´t need anyone else, which widens the gap even more unless you actively decide to train someone else.
This is not a criticism to your buffs because I think they are sensible, I think those can even be used in combination with some nerfs for some of the units (Like Marissa is just way too bad).
But I think having a bunch of flawed units makes for more interesting gameplay, so they can all work together to complete the map.
Imo, making Seth weaker would do wonders for the gameplay. Something like first lowering his bases, and weapon rank so he doesn´t one round everything, still your strongest unit at the start, and one of your strongest units for the whole game. but not a god. And I like the idea of lowering his base RES to one, and his RES growth from 30% to 15% while also adding some magical enemies to almost every map. So you can´t just solo with him, and needs the help of other units.
I would also nerf classes, like cavaliers can only use lances. To help sword locked units suck less I think making 1-2 ranges swords more common already goes a long way. Nothing crazy, just replace two of the shitty chest items with light brands.
I would lower some bases a little bit here and there too. Seth is 90% of the reason why the game is too easy. But there are other units that could do with some nerfs. Orson just because of consistency reason, he is not supposed to be stronger than Seth. Franz I would lower his str and defense by 1 point, and HP by two, as well as lowering the Spd growth by 10%.
I think Vanessa is strong but fine because she is flawed so I wouldn´t change her.
I would drop Cormag level and bases in proportion by like 2 on Ephraim route, on Eirika I´ll leave him unchanged.
Kyle I would lower his speed growth by 10%, I feel otherwise he would become much better than Franz and Forde with just a couple level ups.
I think these nerfs would change the way you think about your formerly bad units, from liabilities to flawed units that still have their uses. I think that´s better than patching their flaws.
Liking eirika mode more than ephraim mode kinda bad opinion but i respect it
Feel like I need to learn how to make my own balance patch for FE8. Really wanna just tweak some things that are annoying, or nonsensical, like Great Knights losing movement on promotion.
Also upping the support conversation cap
And cranking up the difficulty *significantly*
And fixing the *WILDLY* inconsistent and frankly nonsensical CON and Aid values 🤦
just now finishing up my first real run through sacred stones thanks to your propaganda, and i gotta mention that the rebalance seems to have one glaring omission- which is that the short spear weighs more than the spear??? hoW???? it's literally the same thing but shorter and that... somehow makes it heavier? Jokes aside, i'll be sure to keep this hack in mind in case i ever wanna replay the game!
Should I play this? I've played a little bit of the original sacred stones, and I've noticed I can just throw Seth to everything. And no, I haven't played the rest of fire emblems but the one with Lynn
I mean, go play *through* SS first (ideally at least once on both routes), then other Fire Emblems, *then* this. Also, the one with Lyn is called "Blazing Sword" ☝🤓
Deciding half the game wasnt worth rebalancing is wild.
I love rebalancing the GBA FE games, I tinker with them every now and then to scratch that game dev itch I get sometimes.
Weaker stuft is never going yo be more appealing whitout nerfing things. You either play slow or play fast:
-if you play slow everything is very viable in Sacred Stones and most units already have a good feeling once you overload them
-if you play fast the game would be dominated by more or less the same units because the other ones need a mountain of buffs to catch up. And even if you do that, playing with 12 seth seem like i may as well bring out the Gameshark.
It is fundamentally a flawed premise in an easy game like SS. It would be a good philosophy for, for example, Thracia 776 because combat units blend together to begin with, or in a game like SD, where only a handful of characters are actually viable and the limited Master Seal aviability makes impossible to make an army of gods. But not for a game like this.
I fundamentally disagree that no units feel bad in vanilla sacred stones. Eirika is failing to double and getting two shot in chapter 2, Marisa feels awful to use on join. Just because they feel ok after their training arc doesn't mean there's no time where they feel bad.
In fast play I agree that not much changes but I think that's fine. I said as much in the video, the goal was to adjust annoyances I have with vanilla sacred stones, not change what the LTC looks like.
What's wrong with giving units like Marisa a slightly stronger start for people that want to use her?
@@actuallizardthere is wrong that SS is a joke of a game difficulty wise so to me the first rule of a rebalance would be "do not make it any easier". Eirika dieing in 2 hits in chapter 2 is the one think keeping it remotely interesting to play if you ask me.
A lot of the game is only kept engaging because you are attempting to train scrubs, take that away and the little fun i can have in that game goes away.
@@noukan42I don't think every rebalance needs to alter where the difficulty lies - vanilla SS is easy but that's fine for newer or more casual players. Most people playing romhacks will be veterans, of course, but there's an argument for making a rebalance as if it was going to replace the original game. And sometimes I just want to win without feeling like I'm going to constantly screw myself over unless I play absolutely optimally.
@@Rainbro359 but nerfing nothing and buffing do alter the balance by making the game easier. I am not advocating of that, i am advocating for keeping the difficulty the same by nerfing as much as you buff.
Buddy, who genuinely cares? This is *his* rebalance; he can do just about anything he wants. Hell, it's honestly pretty generous that he's even letting us play this because this is a rebalance for *him,* a rebalance that fixes annoyances *he* has with Sacred Stones, not *your* annoyances. You can't expect people to bend themselves around you like you're the Sun in our solar system. Let him have his fun, and if you want the stuff you're asking for, then maybe *you* should pick up FEBuilder and try this kind of thing yourself.
Besides, while it's not quite as robust as I think it could've been (at least in terms of taking the existing stuff and beefing it up a bit, not adding entirely new systems like skills or Thracia trading etc, and also considering what he's already cooked up before, especially with the promotion options like the ones he did with Akira), it's still a damn good rebalance and (to my knowledge) the only one of its kind that I've seen; every other SS hack just makes way too many changes that betray the SS experience, unlike this.
In conclusion: Don't be cringe 🙂👍
Sorry but you missing twice on 8:15 is funny as hell as 71 chance isn't bad
making fe8 more easy is wild
A vanilla+ romhack
No nerfs in the easiest FE is wild
12:21 Seth is NOT a Jagen 😂😂😂
My one idea to perfectly balance Sacred stones is to have Seth leave for the route split and Boom! Game balanced!
I really like your content, and your essays, so i would suggest a speech therapist to help with your lateral lisp.