The pdga has to allow companies to be more innovative. They are restricting technology advancement to prevent companies from making a great product, and taking market share from the big brands. We want dimples, textured tops, ect..
I don’t think the dimples make it fly further but it gives you a good consistent grip on it. So you never have to worry about your grip slipping or gripping it wrong. This could also make your throws more consistent
Your local Ching Discs lover here. Thank you so much Jesse for showing these off. Make sure to check out their best and even more unique disc... the ORACLE!!!
Im so jealous you get sent so many weird discs. Weird stuff wednesday is my favorite video series! I did a ching juju video ages ago. Its actually a good disc
I have all of these discs and they are some of my favorites. The one thing I never see anyone talk about is the diagram on the JuJu that is the +3 to -3, I always thought that if the line your thumb makes matches with any of the lines in that diagram that is going to affect the fade of the disc, like going from stable (+3) to under stable (-3). If the JuJu was still in production, I would own too many. By far my favorite upshot and putter disc ever.
@@alexanderjagell2963 More info will be available in JAN. Just finished testing modern plastics in the molds. Will start running discs in late DEC. I have a limited amount of original run discs... that will be released as part of the relaunch promotion. Website won't go live until JAN.
A favorable summary 😎 ..I'd note that Juju, Precision, and Velocity were created to market as a 3-pack when I split from Innova production. I may have missed calling Velocity a 'Fairway Driver' at the time. But (correct me if I'm wrong).. I think I was the first to market and standardize the four categories of { Putt & Approach | Midrange | Fairway Driver | Distance Driver } in DGWN with Tank, Stinger, Sniper, and Bomb respectively.
I don't feel like the asymmetrical design of the dimples was analyzed enough. I'm not saying there is much to be discovered there either. But I would like to see a series of throws from same disc with different clock position for grip
Tank was 'licensed' Innova mold. Juju was an Aero shaved down flat to reduce width to 21.1 and make it as slow as possible with flat side. Stan McDaniel test threw the first hand made prototype for me, and Dunipace confirmed the concept with production mini prototypes at USDGC longgg ago.
Great job throwing those discs. The mid was like a Roc, the first Driver was like a Teebird, and the last driver was like a Thunderbird. Very cool. You probably made everyone want these discs now. They seem to give great grip for consistency.
Been so long.. I thought I modeled Velocity off the Beast; McCormack called me out on that. I prolly studied his line for the Genesis nose/rim. Legal/moral rumors aside, IMO he was aggressive pushing PDGA approved rim width to the max, compared to Innova plodding along with strategic incremental increases to squeeze monetization through development. The Roc is 22cm ish.. I made all mine at 21.1 ish for consistency.
I have a portable ching basket. Really compact and fits into the nylon bag to carry easily. Also have a ching bomb driver and ching sniper mid range disc. Some of my favorites when i first started playing disc.
Ching was the Innova made company and only the molds that were made by Ching with top and bottom a Ching innovation were totally Ching molds. My Dad used a Juju in the Supreme plastic (e-bay 2004--2005 for $35 USA) , a forerunner to the Champion only this Supreme floppy plastic. The discs for the company Innova and Chinese at the same time the first company were made from late 1990's not sure until 2002 right before we started. He has several other putters, driver a Medium Firm Wizard for driving only, a Rubber Puter too heavy a weight to float, another. The company in 2014 did a few runs of the distance drivers planning to get back into production but stopped, as between 2003 and 2014 the company did not make discs. Some older discs like this one was a Roc with the technology they used on the two later distance drivers.
I love weird and zany disc designs. I’m always down to see how they fly. That being said, I was going through an online factory story a few weeks back and found a Groove in clear champion plastic. I showed it to a friend for fun and giggles. Apparently I’m the proud new owner of a u-dye Groove. Argh.
Portable baskets are still called Chings here. Also, Scott Stokely nowadays has the license to produce the discs...and they're not anymore made in China. It's just the mold :-D
I always pay attention when i hear anyone mention ching discs. I found a ching sniper mid range along time ago and it was my strait go to when i was new. It turned into a great turn over mid and now is retired with my other old cant find anymore collection.
I might mention that your success with these discs might also be due to the fact that since you're using discs you're not used to the mental opportunity to say "well, they didn't fly well and I didn't do well, but these are weird discs nobody uses so no pressure", that lack of pressure maybe can lead to a more casually and fundamentally solid game that you wouldn't usually play simply because of that phenomenon of having the pressure off of performing with discs that you SHOULD know how to throw. I know you said that the test wasn't very scientific. I do like the finger placement holes as a concept. The berg has something similar with its dome ridge for thumb placement and that is also nice.
Has anyone made a contraption to throw discs repeatably each time? That way comparing discs is much more useful and trustworthy. Think like a baseball pitching machine or clay pigeon launcher etc.
I found one at my local course about 10 years ago and it was the driver. Idk if it was because it was beat in or super soft but it was under stable but I kept it in my bag for a water disc. I think that this was a great idea for beginners to learn how to grip and where to grip the disc. Overall it was a gimmick but i'm sure that they sold at the beginning and did okay. I have never seen another one or heard anything since I lost it in a creek so it was cool seeing this video reminding me of some good times in my past.
I putted with the ju ju for years. The main reason was the feel of my putting grip felt the same no matter what the temperature. Super hot or super cold. Loved those discs. The legacy was amazing for me once beat in. But they lacked durability. Honestly... I miss them.
Great video! Maybe those dimples are something trash panda might incorporate on a few of their discs in the future? That is if that tech isn’t trademarked.
Is it possible to buy those discs from somewhere? I dont care how they fly, but since holding a disc in my hand the first time I've always wondered why the hell they dont make those dimples...it would be SO MUCH better to hold on to a disc that way
I have the mojo putter. Lore has it that they had to change the name due to the Austin Powers copyright to mojo. Whether or not that is true I’m not sure of but I do enjoy putting with it. I didn’t know they made drivers as well. Very cool 😎
I'm not aware of Houck marketing a Millennium Tank. Innova let me use the beadless version for CHING Tank and created a big bead on the Rhyno swapping mold parts.
As a collector of weird discs I definitely have a Ching (Velocity) in my pile. Recently had a chance at an Oracle which is even goofier, but one Ching is enough for me. The oracle is just 3 MASSIVE dimples. Like 2-3x the size of the ones on the drivers.
i left a clear gummy ching juju at a course around pandemic times when i first got back into disc golf. thing was likely almost 20yrs old. still miss it.
The Juju was originally called the Mojo but Ching had to change the name because Mojo was used already. I have a Mojo never thrown it, used a soft Juju for a while for approach shots.
I'm not sure dimples performs better but I'm sure I could love and bag one of those discs, you definitely knew we'd want one after watching these you can't let us down please make an OS fairway! And a putter maybe :D
11 місяців тому
Better put that red one in the bag! Let the history fly
I remember buying a 3-set of these from a building supply store for about 12 dollars. Tried them once on a business trip, thought they were awful, left them out on the course for someone to find.
I think more ppl have heard of these than you thought. I used to bag a driver way back when. It got to be kind of a utility disc and then eventually got pushed out of the bag. Still have a few laying around somewhere. It was a good disc to hand a beginner to explain the difference in backhand/forehand and all that jazz.
I had a Genesis driver with the wavy grip points. Felt so nice in hand, but it's in the water at Interlocken. I still have my Legacy mid with an Ace on it.
kinda fun seeing all the online disc golf beginners discovering the discs we tried out like 12 years ago. its unlikely these discs make it in the bag for any serious disc golfer
I threw a Ching back in the early 2000s. I kinda remember the disc being alright...that being said, I also bagged a Wham-O driver that I absolutely loved.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Your site kills any attempt to refrence an address on the either.... Search for the WAY Back Machine and look for chinguscompany but short for that last word... man this is THE last try... about 7 so far,...
CHING Roc is just an Innova Roc that was processed under a heat press to apply the Full Color imagery.. flattened it out a little. Flying Disc Museum let me blab about it in an article.
I have a prototype Ching Juju that Mike Holgate sent out to testers via the PDGA forum. Very interesting concept and cool looking disc but IMO the dimples ruined the glide and made the disc understable. Maybe higher elevation was the missing link? You were certainly golfing those discs in an impressive manner. 😎
Edit: I still had something filled in the search fields. Looks like they're all still approved. I believe that all of them were at one point. However just the Big Heavy and Ultimate are still listed for Ching. So I'm assuming that the PDGA just unlisted them and doesn't allow this kind of design any longer.
I have 2 Juju's in my collection, a soft gummy one & a hard plastic like DX. I putted with them in 2008-2010, but never knew that Innova helped Ching produce the discs.
The Supreme plastic was like Champion, Innova basically got the info of what plastic company that Ching was getting its plastic from then got it and used a blend to have a stiffer plastic. The one other plastic at the time that was like this was Discraft Elite-Z the early version had a different feel and was more like how modern Latitude 64/other molds feel in the fully clear plastic. Ching also had the Disc Basket they got swiped from the company when they folded in 2002 or 2003 right before I started playing. This is not unlike when Millenium made some of the early Disc Golf Backpacks in 2007--2008 the older models they had one they shipped to China to make a clone of them, at the time the Millenium ones were made in Mexico or in Vietnam. The discs from Ching used to be worth more and only the Innova made discs from the company are worth anything especially the Roc like disc that had the same top the distance drivers Ching made later in a few runs in 2014 planning to get back into the company. At the time the molds made by Innova were made back when Innova East still based out of same city they Do USDGC since 1999/ since 2007 Throw Pink, those two events actually made discs. This was also the same town Ching was from even when the Chinese discs were made at the same time.
The Sniper, Tank, Bomb, & Stinger were Innova molds. Millennium / Hyzerbomb was given permission to run the Tank mold -- they are available. All others are CHING molds.
The pdga has to allow companies to be more innovative. They are restricting technology advancement to prevent companies from making a great product, and taking market share from the big brands. We want dimples, textured tops, ect..
Innova owns the pdga.
@@vJackaRoodo they though? They lost the LVC as the opener next year lol....
I don’t think the dimples make it fly further but it gives you a good consistent grip on it. So you never have to worry about your grip slipping or gripping it wrong. This could also make your throws more consistent
I remember throwing them. Biggest issue was getting the dimples full of mud
Your local Ching Discs lover here. Thank you so much Jesse for showing these off. Make sure to check out their best and even more unique disc... the ORACLE!!!
CHING production will resume in 2024.
where did we get this information...
@@breinerinc
Source: I have the molds. Running great in modern day plastics. Will re-release in early 2024.@@timquakenbush9416
Breiner is the new Authority on CHING. @@timquakenbush9416
first, I remember ching. Also, when the trash panda rufus launching?
prickly pines in elizabeth CO... can confirm... very hard course!
I wondered if that was it. I played in the winter so it looked a lot different at the time.
Im so jealous you get sent so many weird discs. Weird stuff wednesday is my favorite video series! I did a ching juju video ages ago. Its actually a good disc
You get some good ones for wed
In the future, maybe tell your audience what course you're at, instead of just "one of the hardest courses in the greater denver area"
it's prickly pines in elizabeth co
What is the name of this course? I was in denver over the weekend and played a course with not a lot of trees
PricklyPines. It is in the town of Elizabeth
I have 3 ching supreme juju's. They are THE straightest flying discs I have ever thrown in my life. Easily my favorite disc golf disc ❤
I have all of these discs and they are some of my favorites. The one thing I never see anyone talk about is the diagram on the JuJu that is the +3 to -3, I always thought that if the line your thumb makes matches with any of the lines in that diagram that is going to affect the fade of the disc, like going from stable (+3) to under stable (-3). If the JuJu was still in production, I would own too many. By far my favorite upshot and putter disc ever.
CHING production will resume in 2024. Will also be releasing some 'from the vault' original run(s) stock.
where is this info?
@@alexanderjagell2963 More info will be available in JAN. Just finished testing modern plastics in the molds. Will start running discs in late DEC. I have a limited amount of original run discs... that will be released as part of the relaunch promotion. Website won't go live until JAN.
@@breinerinc Awsome!!
Don't be playing with my emotions. I'm going to check right now.
What do you mean "never heard of"? It's my main putter. Juju for life!
CHING production will resume in 2024. Will also be releasing some 'from the vault' original run(s) stock.
I love my juju ching its my C2-3 putter!!!
Been in my bag for over 15 years!
A favorable summary 😎 ..I'd note that Juju, Precision, and Velocity were created to market as a 3-pack when I split from Innova production. I may have missed calling Velocity a 'Fairway Driver' at the time. But (correct me if I'm wrong).. I think I was the first to market and standardize the four categories of { Putt & Approach | Midrange | Fairway Driver | Distance Driver } in DGWN with Tank, Stinger, Sniper, and Bomb respectively.
Can't wait for the Holiday Disc Swap!
Loved the editing on the "double mando"!! This was very cool! Wish we could still buy them!
I don't feel like the asymmetrical design of the dimples was analyzed enough. I'm not saying there is much to be discovered there either. But I would like to see a series of throws from same disc with different clock position for grip
8:41 bruh you definitely farted. 😂😂
I still bag a Ching Tank (soft), best putt and approach ever. Also still bag a Ching JUJU
Tank was 'licensed' Innova mold. Juju was an Aero shaved down flat to reduce width to 21.1 and make it as slow as possible with flat side. Stan McDaniel test threw the first hand made prototype for me, and Dunipace confirmed the concept with production mini prototypes at USDGC longgg ago.
Those genuinely look like they fly amazing!
Ok, interesting. Question? Are you going to make one of your disc with this type of technology?
Seconded. You should do this.
Too bad you couldn't get your hands on a Ching Oracle, could end up being your favorite discs. Soooooo comfortable and a very reliable disc
I second this. I still have 2 of them!
@@xxxsurshotxxx6793 wanna sell one?
Great job throwing those discs. The mid was like a Roc, the first Driver was like a Teebird, and the last driver was like a Thunderbird. Very cool. You probably made everyone want these discs now. They seem to give great grip for consistency.
Been so long.. I thought I modeled Velocity off the Beast; McCormack called me out on that. I prolly studied his line for the Genesis nose/rim. Legal/moral rumors aside, IMO he was aggressive pushing PDGA approved rim width to the max, compared to Innova plodding along with strategic incremental increases to squeeze monetization through development. The Roc is 22cm ish.. I made all mine at 21.1 ish for consistency.
I have a portable ching basket. Really compact and fits into the nylon bag to carry easily. Also have a ching bomb driver and ching sniper mid range disc. Some of my favorites when i first started playing disc.
Ching dimples coming soon to a Trash Panda disc near you.
WHAT IS THAT BAG?! You cannot just casually tease that
I had one of these in the past. Found it in a pond while looking for my disc
Whats the name of the course?
Ching was the Innova made company and only the molds that were made by Ching with top and bottom a Ching innovation were totally Ching molds. My Dad used a Juju in the Supreme plastic (e-bay 2004--2005 for $35 USA) , a forerunner to the Champion only this Supreme floppy plastic. The discs for the company Innova and Chinese at the same time the first company were made from late 1990's not sure until 2002 right before we started. He has several other putters, driver a Medium Firm Wizard for driving only, a Rubber Puter too heavy a weight to float, another. The company in 2014 did a few runs of the distance drivers planning to get back into production but stopped, as between 2003 and 2014 the company did not make discs. Some older discs like this one was a Roc with the technology they used on the two later distance drivers.
I love weird and zany disc designs. I’m always down to see how they fly. That being said, I was going through an online factory story a few weeks back and found a Groove in clear champion plastic. I showed it to a friend for fun and giggles. Apparently I’m the proud new owner of a u-dye Groove. Argh.
Portable baskets are still called Chings here. Also, Scott Stokely nowadays has the license to produce the discs...and they're not anymore made in China. It's just the mold :-D
I always pay attention when i hear anyone mention ching discs. I found a ching sniper mid range along time ago and it was my strait go to when i was new. It turned into a great turn over mid and now is retired with my other old cant find anymore collection.
Fun video. I remember the putter and mid but not the drivers.
I might mention that your success with these discs might also be due to the fact that since you're using discs you're not used to the mental opportunity to say "well, they didn't fly well and I didn't do well, but these are weird discs nobody uses so no pressure", that lack of pressure maybe can lead to a more casually and fundamentally solid game that you wouldn't usually play simply because of that phenomenon of having the pressure off of performing with discs that you SHOULD know how to throw. I know you said that the test wasn't very scientific. I do like the finger placement holes as a concept. The berg has something similar with its dome ridge for thumb placement and that is also nice.
Love Trash Panda!
Has anyone made a contraption to throw discs repeatably each time? That way comparing discs is much more useful and trustworthy. Think like a baseball pitching machine or clay pigeon launcher etc.
Stokely has just bought the rights to the Ching molds. He's got jujus on sale, and will have the other 5 accelerator discs up shortly.
Prickly is a fav of mine in town. All those north Denver folk dont get down to it enough.
I found one at my local course about 10 years ago and it was the driver. Idk if it was because it was beat in or super soft but it was under stable but I kept it in my bag for a water disc. I think that this was a great idea for beginners to learn how to grip and where to grip the disc. Overall it was a gimmick but i'm sure that they sold at the beginning and did okay. I have never seen another one or heard anything since I lost it in a creek so it was cool seeing this video reminding me of some good times in my past.
Is it possible the dimples force a better grip? As in thumb placement?
I can imagine it giving you more thumb grip with less effort .. my grip sucks I would probably love this haha
I putted with the ju ju for years. The main reason was the feel of my putting grip felt the same no matter what the temperature. Super hot or super cold. Loved those discs. The legacy was amazing for me once beat in. But they lacked durability. Honestly... I miss them.
FYI your title says "Head" instead of "Heard" of... surprised nobody already mentioned it
WHY did you do that?! Now we all want to try those discs! lol
It's nice he give some forerunners their due credits.
CHING production will resume in 2024.
I have a velocity. But it's soo flippy I gave it to my kid. I do like the thumb spots though. It's a nice feature.
i really like thumbtracks, so i can see myself liking those discs
I used to have a ching legacy, it was the best forehand mid range. I miss it dearly. It was super old too, probably early 2000-2010
CHING production will resume in 2024.
Juju was my first putting putter 😃. Still have it! Don't use it anymore though.
What course is this? one of the few i havent played on the front range
it's prickly pines in elizabeth co
Thank you@@snowe..
I used to bag the JuJu until I couldn't find them any longer. Thanks for this!
Jesse with a J.E.S.E. Just Extremely Scientific Experiments.
Great video! Maybe those dimples are something trash panda might incorporate on a few of their discs in the future? That is if that tech isn’t trademarked.
It would be on Patent, not Trademark.. but it's expired now anyway.
Ok.
I use a Ching Genesis as a forehand driver...old man slow arm
I have some of these discs, they are flippy AF and janky at best. "Accelerator contours", "Draft technology" ... marketing gimmicks if you ask me :)
Comming soon to the trash panda disc "excelator technology " 😂
i used to throw their whole line along with an arrow and an epic and did suprisingly well with them,
Lol I have had the distance driver in my bag since 2007
I KNEW ABOUT THIS. Found one in base plastic and that midrange WAS fun. Until a SINGLE tree hit.
Is it possible to buy those discs from somewhere? I dont care how they fly, but since holding a disc in my hand the first time I've always wondered why the hell they dont make those dimples...it would be SO MUCH better to hold on to a disc that way
CHING production will resume in 2024.
Omg i threw one if these at my college i tried to find it but could not 😂
I have the mojo putter. Lore has it that they had to change the name due to the Austin Powers copyright to mojo. Whether or not that is true I’m not sure of but I do enjoy putting with it. I didn’t know they made drivers as well. Very cool 😎
Ching Tank was the first thumb trak as well and turned into the Rhyno. Actually, the Millennium tank, then the Rhyno.
I'm not aware of Houck marketing a Millennium Tank. Innova let me use the beadless version for CHING Tank and created a big bead on the Rhyno swapping mold parts.
As a collector of weird discs I definitely have a Ching (Velocity) in my pile. Recently had a chance at an Oracle which is even goofier, but one Ching is enough for me. The oracle is just 3 MASSIVE dimples. Like 2-3x the size of the ones on the drivers.
Did you get any soft or rubber juju chings?
i left a clear gummy ching juju at a course around pandemic times when i first got back into disc golf. thing was likely almost 20yrs old. still miss it.
CHING production will resume in 2024. Will also be releasing some 'from the vault' original run(s) stock.
well thats amazing@@breinerinc
The Juju was originally called the Mojo but Ching had to change the name because Mojo was used already. I have a Mojo never thrown it, used a soft Juju for a while for approach shots.
I started playing with Ching Discs like 10 years ago... Now they are collecting dust somewhere but they still keep confusing me...
Clearly Trash Panda has some molds to add!!😂😂
I'm not sure dimples performs better but I'm sure I could love and bag one of those discs, you definitely knew we'd want one after watching these you can't let us down please make an OS fairway! And a putter maybe :D
Better put that red one in the bag! Let the history fly
I remember buying a 3-set of these from a building supply store for about 12 dollars. Tried them once on a business trip, thought they were awful, left them out on the course for someone to find.
I think more ppl have heard of these than you thought. I used to bag a driver way back when. It got to be kind of a utility disc and then eventually got pushed out of the bag. Still have a few laying around somewhere. It was a good disc to hand a beginner to explain the difference in backhand/forehand and all that jazz.
I had a Genesis driver with the wavy grip points. Felt so nice in hand, but it's in the water at Interlocken. I still have my Legacy mid with an Ace on it.
throw them with your thumb on the plate not in a dent
so trash panda driver is having dimples?
kinda fun seeing all the online disc golf beginners discovering the discs we tried out like 12 years ago. its unlikely these discs make it in the bag for any serious disc golfer
I threw a Ching back in the early 2000s. I kinda remember the disc being alright...that being said, I also bagged a Wham-O driver that I absolutely loved.
What course is this?
It's Prickly Pines in Elizabeth, CO.
The Juju was my first putter
I would love to throw these bad boys. As a berg lover the thumb holes sounds like a dream
Grade A content as always ♻️
I actually had a Ching disc that I found at a thrift store. I now wish I hadn't given it away.
I found one of these one time
I would tell you how to find Ching's old info but the channel deletes even the vaguest references to a spiders home
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Your site kills any attempt to refrence an address on the either....
Search for the WAY Back Machine and look for chinguscompany but short for that last word... man this is THE last try... about 7 so far,...
FINALLY.... although Vague..... Oh and its actually .... forward... GNR Guitarist.... Sports for ching
too bad the 'dimples' are patented. Love to see you include them on your discs.
The Ching Bomb was a fantastic disc.
A friend of mine putts with jujus and anytime someone sees it, they have to ask him what it is.
Where was this ?
I found one a ching disc in my new yard 😂 they are crazy
I love thumbtracks etc, I want this so bad!
CHING will be back in early 2024.
@@breinerincany news on ching? 😅
@@alexanderjagell2963 CHING Meso JuJu is done and releasing the 4th week of June.
But are they PDGA approved?
All of the CHING molds are PDGA approved.
Man I wish I could find a set of these.
CHING will be back in early 2024.
What course is that?
it's prickly pines in elizabeth co
That explains ching rocs
CHING Roc is just an Innova Roc that was processed under a heat press to apply the Full Color imagery.. flattened it out a little. Flying Disc Museum let me blab about it in an article.
Keep disc golf weird & fun! 👍
Are the Ching Discs PDGA legal?
I believe that all of them were at one point. However just the Big Heavy and Ultimate are still listed.
They are all PDGA approved.
It's always the arrow. 😎
I have a prototype Ching Juju that Mike Holgate sent out to testers via the PDGA forum. Very interesting concept and cool looking disc but IMO the dimples ruined the glide and made the disc understable.
Maybe higher elevation was the missing link? You were certainly golfing those discs in an impressive manner. 😎
Looks like a fun course
PDGA legal?? Can you make some of them?
Edit: I still had something filled in the search fields. Looks like they're all still approved.
I believe that all of them were at one point. However just the Big Heavy and Ultimate are still listed for Ching. So I'm assuming that the PDGA just unlisted them and doesn't allow this kind of design any longer.
They are all PDGA approved.
I have 2 Juju's in my collection, a soft gummy one & a hard plastic like DX. I putted with them in 2008-2010, but never knew that Innova helped Ching produce the discs.
The Supreme plastic was like Champion, Innova basically got the info of what plastic company that Ching was getting its plastic from then got it and used a blend to have a stiffer plastic. The one other plastic at the time that was like this was Discraft Elite-Z the early version had a different feel and was more like how modern Latitude 64/other molds feel in the fully clear plastic. Ching also had the Disc Basket they got swiped from the company when they folded in 2002 or 2003 right before I started playing. This is not unlike when Millenium made some of the early Disc Golf Backpacks in 2007--2008 the older models they had one they shipped to China to make a clone of them, at the time the Millenium ones were made in Mexico or in Vietnam.
The discs from Ching used to be worth more and only the Innova made discs from the company are worth anything especially the Roc like disc that had the same top the distance drivers Ching made later in a few runs in 2014 planning to get back into the company. At the time the molds made by Innova were made back when Innova East still based out of same city they Do USDGC since 1999/ since 2007 Throw Pink, those two events actually made discs. This was also the same town Ching was from even when the Chinese discs were made at the same time.
The Sniper, Tank, Bomb, & Stinger were Innova molds. Millennium / Hyzerbomb was given permission to run the Tank mold -- they are available. All others are CHING molds.
I have a Juju and a Velocity. Loved both of them. I would love to have another Supreme Velocity.
I have a midrange too! The Oracle