*1 AMENDMENT* AMENDMENT: I misspoke during the explanation of the vitamin D iterations during the mechanism section. @jjgdo1 made the astute observation saying: "1,25 has 2 OH groups so dihydroxy. 25 has only one OH group. Number refers to the position I believe." - that is correct. Thank you, @jjgdo1. This was far more complex than initially thought. It speaks to how oversimplifying things can really lead us into a false sense of certainty (especially in the mechanisms section).
Don't want to nitpick, but your explanation of confidence intervals at 46:50 isn't correct. Maybe because you were trying to simplify the concept? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_interval A confidence interval is a frequentist concept. A 95% confidence intervals means that if you ran tons of experiments, 95% of them should contain the parameter being studied. What you described is a credible interval. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credible_interval Credible intervals are the Bayesian analogue to confidence intervals. A credible interval of 95% means you are 95% certain that the parameter is in your distribution, given some prior. They sound similar, but they're fundamentally different and have very different interpretations.
The way I have understood this is that **huge oversimplification here btw** D3 pushed calcium in the bone (and your veins) Magnesium and K2 re-order the bone (better density) (k2 also removes calcium from wrong places like veins) Strain and exercise stimulate both growth and restructure of bone
_"Japanese fermented soybean food as the major determinant of the large geographic difference in circulating levels of vitamin K2: possible implications for hip-fracture risk"_ Nutrition, 2001 Apr;17(4):315-21. (...) _"Increasing evidence indicates a significant role for vitamin K in bone metabolism and osteoporosis."_ _"and suggest the possibility that higher MK-7 level resulting from natto consumption may contribute to the relatively lower fracture risk in Japanese women."_
@@VeganLinked Yes, you get K1 from fresh greens. The efficiency of K1-K2 conversion is been debated as is how well average person can convert, due to growing problems of gut biome problems. At this time it seems best to do hybrid strategy of both K1 and K2. Some studies say that at this point around 40-60% of K2 circulating comes from K1->K2 conversion. If you are vegan you can always eat natto or take supplements which are derived from natto if you want to be "safe". Problem of K2 vitamin is that the health effects of slight deficiency will probably not show until older ages unless you are child or have underlying health conditions. This is also somewhat problem in all overall health optimization, diet, exercise etc.
No Amendments, currently. This was far more complex than initially thought. It speaks to how oversimplifying things can really lead us into a false sense of certainty (especially in the mechanisms section).
As I say There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics and finally there are simplifications. (Which give a false sense of understanding.) I often voice the latter bit.
Thank you for doing the research and sharing it. It's frustrating that there's so little investment in proper studies on Vitamin D, especially when we only get anecdotes and inconclusive answers. This is a serious issue because people of color, who could benefit the most from Vitamin D supplementation, are left without clear guidance.
@@Physionic I knew a Haitian in Montreal she and for all of the people of color African descent, Caribbean descent. The Canadian government gave them vitamin D droplets to add to their breastmilk as they breast-fed. It has proven to reduce rickets and children of color, I think it’s only America that doesn’t care about studying vitamin D.
Not only don't I understand this video, I don't even understand the comments.....so make it easy for us public school graduates....Vitamin D supplementation good? Yes or No?
Fantastic presentation! The fatal flaw in almost all the vitamin D research is that it evaluates the effects of supplementation without actually looking at serum levels. It's no wonder so much hetergeneity in the research. There is a wide variation in the effects of supplementation on serum levels. One's baseline serum level obviously matters, as does the point to which it is raised. Another less well known factor is one's level of fat mass (high levels requiring several times higher dose to effect the same increase in serum level as would be seen in a normal BMI). This topic is a special interest of mine (age 65, I have two VDR SNPs that make my VDRs less efficient, originally diagnosed with osteopenia 20-years ago, just into osteoporosis now and working diligently to improve my BMD).
Excellent that you brought up the fat mass. I would postulate it has something, maybe a lot?, to do with muscle mass and whether one puts energy into exercise and/or weight lifting, etc. a few times per week.
Yes!! What we need are studies that look subjects who are deficient in Vitamin D (serum level), that intervene to bring them up to some specific target level (whether that is an accepted "normal" level, or a proposed "better" level), and then look at the consequences. This would mean monitoring their serum level and adjusting the intervention, because it's not the intervention dosage that's being tested, but the target serum level. This is better for providing guidance in clinical practice -- if a patient is being treated for Vitamin D deficiency, the treatment depends on their initial status, and they do need to be monitored and the treatment adjusted to get to the goal. Yes, there are some tricky ethical issues with any study that compares treatment to no treatment, as opposed to comparing two treatments, or a test treatment vs. current standard of care. One would need to be prepared to cut short the study if the weight of evidence clearly favors the test treatment, to offer the test treatment to the control group. (This has happened in a number of cancer treatment trials, including one I was enrolled in, which intended to determine whether chemotherapy was useful in addition to just surgery for "aggressive" breast cancer in young women.)
Magnesium, Calcium from food, vitamins D3 and K2 (preferably MK7 form) Only known to a few, Boron salts (and that may be the simple borax) have important effects on Magnesium, Calcium and Phosphorus, free D3, free testosterone and estrogen and more. Bone consists of minerals in a protein matrix. This matrix is formed from several amino acids. The best, most complete and bio-available source of amino acids is red meat. Vitamin C is required. Then some minerals work as co-factors, like copper, zinc, selenium, manganese and silicon in building this matrix.
Strongly disagree with your take on red meat. Best,most complete and most bioavailable source of amino acids is not red meat, it's whey protein and egg protein. They have highest PDCAAS and DIAAS scores out of all proteins. Red meat is not even close. Best plant based protein is soy protein isolate that is close to 90 percent complete ( slightly lower on methionine than whey)
The quality of food should not be defined by its amino acid distribution. Red meat is not associated with longevity; plant proteins are. Aside from being associated with a lower risk of frailty, animal protein was also associated with this one to a much lesser extent, though. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10884611/
Boron helps the body use D, magnesium, and calcium more effectively. I’ve been taking supplements all my life, but it wasn’t until I add boron 2-3 mg 3 times a day that I got rid of all the crunching in my neck, shoulders, and knees - after three months. I would love to see some research dissection on this because boron is not considered an essential mineral, yet it apparently can have a profound impact.
I been taking 6000-8000 units for a few years now (biomarker on vitamin D says 146 which is within the test "normal range", I think their biomarker range go from 60 to 160 or so). The vitamin D comes with K2 m7 and I honestly feel like my bones have become slightly thinner. And yes I also supplement with magnesium to support vitamin D.
I don't know the measure you're referring to with 146 but whichever it is you're in the "excess" or "intoxicated" range. Look up the normal values (40-80ng/ml)
"I feel" is not the best measurement. Maybe without the supplements it would be worse. How long you are taking them? Maybe the results are not significant. Also I would always prefer natural sources for Vitamin D (sunlight, mushrooms), K2 (natto), Calcium (selfmade Kefir, chedar, milk)
2 important points, the first I saw also in another comment applies to all supplement studies: shouldn’t the main measure and goal be to determine optimal serum or other relevant tissue levels rather than assume as often occurs that we are looking to determine an optimal supplement intake level? Part of that might be a look at variations in individual absorption and if there is any, why that happens and any ways to identify that in advance. My second ooint is far simpler but very relevant to any study. One of the top manufactureres and vendors to punlic and complementary health practitioners here in Australia discovered vit D really did not have great longevity after production and both changed their production methods and reduced the use by. I wonder how well studies check the compsition at consumption time of the substances they are investigating?
Nice video, Good Explanation on the Topic. And interesting to see a analysis on these Study Papers. My Question would be what would be the effect of d3 in combination K2 Or even adding magnesium or Vitamin a? Thanks for the video.
What if we combine it with some sort of stimuli for bone density increase, like running or strength training? Maybe we can supplement with all the calcium, k2 and d3 in the world without getting an effect because we are missing the catalyst. It's like eating protein when inactive🤷♂️
@@Physionic Absolutely! Stress on muscles. Stress on bones. Should yield more strength and capacity for greater stresses… Providing a person has a reasonable diet that provides all the nutrients needed.
Hi Nicolas, I really appreciate all your efforts making physionic UA-cam videos, they're intriguing and the way you teach feels natural. Vitamin D dietary supplements all seem to contain Cholecalciferol as the main active form of Vitamin D. Do you think the quality/source is the same across all supplements? Would you look for anything in particular when choosing a vitamin D supplement please?
Great and deep discussion on Vit D action on bones. It may be worthy to dedicate a podcast on vit D action on the immune system, which is highly emphasized by many longevity gurus.
Dr Greger did a video on K2 and not needing to supplement this, just eating your greens and let your microbiome do the rest. So I don't know why people still think you need to supplement K2. I mean I get mechanistically that it's needed to pull calcium into the bones so it doesn't calcify in the arteries, at least I suppose that's why people are worried about it. But instead of supplementing we should be eating whole plant Foods. At least that's my understanding...
I've always heard Vit D helps your body absorb and retain calcium, but Vit K tells the body where to put it. Obviously, that's an extreme oversimplification, but in general, K should promote calcium moving from soft tissues into bone, and it's K that supposedly really helps with bone density and fewer fractures. I've always assumed K and D to be synergistic, so studies that study D in isolation seem strange and potentially incomplete.
The K2 question is mine as well - I've been under the impression that they complement each other, and if a person's diet isn't giving them enough K2 (which is probably common?) then maybe supplementing with both would make a difference.....
Vitamin D : Since cholesterol is involved with the synthesis of Vitamin D , I wondered if the body would upregulate cholesterol in the event of a lack of vitamin D. That made me run into this study -- doi: 10.3897/folmed.63.e62417 -- Association between Dyslipidemia and Vitamin D Deficiency: a Cross-Sectional Study. I am blown away by the results , Then I don't know his labs reputation or if results have been confirmed elsewhere. Looking forward to see that topic held under the (sun)light .
A handful of years ago my D levels were low and I got a skin rash, patchy dry spots, and it's slowly spread from my chest throughout my upper body over the course of about a year. When I realized I was deficient in D I started supplementing. Then one day I went to the beach and I was only there getting sunlight and in the ocean for like 2 days at most. Soon thereafter It All vanished and it's been gone since. Now I don't know if it was the D or if it was going to the ocean. But I've been supplements since my D levels are good and I haven't had the rash since. And apparently it could have been psoriasis and a deficiency can cause that... So I guess there's a lot of other reasons to want to keep your deeds that is up there, for autoimmune diseases and your immune system in general.
Very interesting video. It would be more interesting to review the effects of vitamin D on the immune system. From my experience this is the key benefit to this core vitamin/hormone.
I am not sure if you have already covered this in the video, but I could not seem to hear you mentioning this. Are the subjects involved in these studies not deficient in vitamin D without supplementations? If so, I would like to know if vitamin D supplementation can positively affect bone density in those who are deficient in vitamin D. That may also explain why some studies found an increase in bone health while others did not find any. Maybe some participants in some studies were deficient.
I know you have touched on bone health here and there. Can you do an updated video on prevention of bone resorption, with all potential aids, especially with bone grafts, and especially if there are new coming possibilities for dental bone grafts which have terrible resorption rates? For example, is stem cell therapy getting close to helping with dental bone or any bone resorption issues at treatment sites? Or just overall with age?
Great and surprising analysis. I take it because of the just in case hypothesis. Sort of like carrying an umbrella on a sunny day. Or at least having one in the car.
Good discussion of some of the issues. I was surprised how few studies actually measured blood levels fo D3 or controlled for other sources (e.g. sunlight exposure time), so the confounders here are many.
To consider that possibility one has to consider the other things that come with sunlight, such as melatonin. And what the difference in physical activity is taking place in each person tested and the nutrients and foods each person is consuming.
As a pharmacistassistent lab degree holder, sadly not in that bussiness anymore, i love the way you explain all these things the way you do. But i have a few questions? Do in combo with K2 what happens then and for immunesystem isn't that a totally different picture about the dose?
Can anyone disclose the effective dosage of D3+K2, for people who can't afford the insider subscription? Last winter i had problems with bone and muscle aches and 2000 IU didn't seem to help. I raised it to 4000 IU and it seemed to work better. I can't afford to pay for blood work either, so i have to do it by feel, and i want to be careful to not overdose. Any thoughts?
2000 IU + K2 should be safe, but maybe you can afford the blood test once a year or once two years? The result does not change quickly, so even testing once two years would be way way better than "by feel".
I do d3 with k2(mk7) 5k units with 10 to 15 minutes of direct sun in afternoon on my back. Don't want it on my face, chest and arms. I'm menopausal though. Going on hrt patch for the protection of heart, osteoporosis, and dementia protection benefits. The risks of those conditions are in my family and outweigh breast cancer risks.
It's difficult to answer this question because there are so many variables involved in optimal levels. Sunlight strength, seasonality, latitude, degree of skin exposure, sun screen use, dietary sources, age etc. For me 64 year old male, high latitude, I found I needed 7500 IU to achieve 75 to 100 percent optimal levels. This was based on initial suplementation with 600 IU, then 1000, then 2500 and 5000 IU and subsequent blood test results. I suspect I need higher levels than many because of my age. HTH.
@@iancollings5047 Wow, I went through the same process, started low (400 a day), then 1000, 2000, 4000... and kept measuring blood levels once or twice a year until I was able to observe a satisfactory response.
Can anyone please provide summary if the video? I know there are alot of efforts into making the video however I really don't have time to watch it and in need to know what's the key take aways. Thanks in advance.
I think it's interesting that the "low" levels of vitamin D were listed at 50 nmol/L. I believe the "normal" reference range starts at 30 nmol/L which is considerably lower than what they are calling low. A lot of Drs will say that you're fine because you're in the "normal" range. If you look up optimal it's usually closer to 50-60 nmol/L.
Would like to see a little more info on stem cells and osteoblasts. What they do? How they work? How they originate? How they acquire energy? What makes them tick? Kind of an overview. And a little in depth. Probably too much for one presentation. But it would be interesting.
I have a question about the bone matrix. Why is this always ignored in medicine? It seems to me that if the matrix has larger gaps in its collagen structure, there is less surface area for minerals to adhere to. Once the collagen matrix is fully saturated with minerals, additional minerals can't adhere. Eating (significantly) more protein will contriute to a denser bone matrix, which will increase the bone density if enough calcium is consumed. And I would assume that in that context, vitamin D (and K2) will have a much stronger effect to increase bone density. Are there studies about the effects of higher protein intake on bone density that indicate this?
I starter using Astaxantin Lycopene and NAC like 4-5 months ago, and I had a car accident and a head injury, they did blood work and found that I had very thin blood like I had prothrombin time pretty high, i dont know if its caused by supplements (in pubmed i found that its likely), or some type of therapy they did to me in the ospital, i never had this problem before starting supplementing, and also lymphocites were almost at minimum, not under, just the lowest possible, these supplements might have a pretty important role in preventing inflammation and cell damage, so they caused a lower immune system
Good question. Consider whether you are consuming enough iodine via kelp or another method. Co Q 10 . Other nutrients? Foods? Protein and fats and carbs ratio? Just thinking out loud. I hope you find resolution t9 the situation quickly.
@@glenntimberlake2413 i was vegan for 1.5 months before blood work, and doing intermittent fasting, i might do a blood work again maybe next Year to see
@@glenntimberlake2413 i will start taking vitamin B complex, vitamin D, potassium and calcium, because I am eating very little and vegan, so I need to supplement these, and maybe also arginine
So it seems that D over a certain threshold, doen't have huge effect on bone density or fracture, but it has other benefits. If one has and overactive parathyroid gland, calcium is removed from the blood; Prolia injections every half-year, works throught Rank to minimize this. Despite the osteoblasts having more D receptons, if one had an overactive parathyroid gland, should one continue taking a RDI dose of say 400 IU of vit D or cut it out completely? What's your GUESS if sun and diet exposure is minimal?
If the person takes Vit D3 without exercising, particularly exercises that results in strength and endurance of the legs, falls will likely occur with broken bones.
I'm just guessing here, obviously, but I think Vit D3+Ca supplements for bone density are similar to protein for muscle growth: unless you pair them with growth stimulus they do nothing.
There is no way synthetic Vitamin D supplementation is the same as what happens when we receive natural sunlight. I think when we supplement high dose isolated vitamin/mineral supplements it’s easy to create imbalances. Whole Foods provide a better balance of nutrients and are less likely to create problematic imbalances. Synthetic Vitamin D makes me excessively urinate…and also a couple old injuries of mine felt like they were locking up and becoming very tight if that makes sense. I was also taking K2 and Magnesium. Somehow this combination also gave me anxiety and shortness of breath. I do feel the Vitamin D (5,000/day) helped my immune system, but overall I feel much better not taking the D/K2/Mag. I prefer to get my nutrition from food and sun. I like raw milk/butter/ cream, salmon, sardines, mackerel, eggs, red meat/ckicken/pork, avacado, fruit, and occasionally nuts.
Wow. I sleep better than ever with the d3k2 and magnesium. My blood work is way better than it was 2 years ago when I hit menopause and bad diet caught up to me. I eat most of what you list and I get 10 to 15 movies Minutes of noonday sun on my back about 5 days a week. Don't want photo aging on my face. 😂
You certainly take a good assortment of great nutrients. Diet wise, You are probably way ahead of most of us humans. I certainly appreciate your good choices. I am curious how often you consume salmon, sardines, etc. The fish mentioned are among those give a very good amount of protein/ amino acids including a healthy amount of taurine, healthy fats, and a number of great nutrients.
@@Physionic I always wonder what other nutrients and minerals are simultaneously consumed that we are not aware of or that have effects that we are not aware of.
@@Physionic What you said about the possibility of ignoring important formation while looking at the one thing and what it does. That’s something I always wonder about.
I don't understand all this effort and money spent on trials with such low doses: perhaps thats pharma's influence aiming to minimise benefit and so promote their products. Vit D studies also show that 5000IU to 10000IU is more likely the beneficial level for most people.
Discussing things scientifically, we can't overextend the work. We have to stay focused and systematic on one outcome (bone health), before we move onto the next outcome; otherwise, we end up doing everything badly.
Thank you Tom - I appreciate the kind words on my 3 weeks or work. That acknowledged, I'd be happy to look into K2, as well - one thing at a time. Thank you again for your kindness and generosity, I'm blown away by your sensible, measured, respectful approach.
@@Physionic My comment is not meant for your hard work and effort more towards such thinking that a element like vitamin D3 ONLY is going to make bones denser on its own, to even do such studies is worthless. Take magnesium we know that it is needed in the body because it has effects of over 300 processes in the body so why would anyone think that D3 ALONE I is going to have such an effect on our bones. As you and I know the body needs various vitamins and minerals and amino acids to function properly.....
@@PhysionicI very much appreciate your work and effort Nick and totally think that was a poor and totally unappreciative response but perhaps he points the way for ongoing reviews of other substances claimed to improve bone density (not just k2) alone and in combinations. It is amazing on yt the thoughtless Comments and sense of entitlement from people as if they were actually paying for what they are watching which most aren’t…
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*1 AMENDMENT*
AMENDMENT: I misspoke during the explanation of the vitamin D iterations during the mechanism section. @jjgdo1 made the astute observation saying: "1,25 has 2 OH groups so dihydroxy. 25 has only one OH group. Number refers to the position I believe." - that is correct. Thank you, @jjgdo1.
This was far more complex than initially thought. It speaks to how oversimplifying things can really lead us into a false sense of certainty (especially in the mechanisms section).
Don't want to nitpick, but your explanation of confidence intervals at 46:50 isn't correct. Maybe because you were trying to simplify the concept?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_interval
A confidence interval is a frequentist concept. A 95% confidence intervals means that if you ran tons of experiments, 95% of them should contain the parameter being studied.
What you described is a credible interval.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credible_interval
Credible intervals are the Bayesian analogue to confidence intervals. A credible interval of 95% means you are 95% certain that the parameter is in your distribution, given some prior.
They sound similar, but they're fundamentally different and have very different interpretations.
The way I have understood this is that **huge oversimplification here btw**
D3 pushed calcium in the bone (and your veins)
Magnesium and K2 re-order the bone (better density) (k2 also removes calcium from wrong places like veins)
Strain and exercise stimulate both growth and restructure of bone
_"Japanese fermented soybean food as the major determinant of the large geographic difference in circulating levels of vitamin K2: possible implications for hip-fracture risk"_
Nutrition, 2001 Apr;17(4):315-21.
(...)
_"Increasing evidence indicates a significant role for vitamin K in bone metabolism and osteoporosis."_
_"and suggest the possibility that higher MK-7 level resulting from natto consumption may contribute to the relatively lower fracture risk in Japanese women."_
Watching video now but been taking k2, MG and D3 in combination for years now due to the synergisticeffects. 😊
But you can also just eat your greens to get K
And of course your microbes can convert it to K2
@@VeganLinked Yes, you get K1 from fresh greens. The efficiency of K1-K2 conversion is been debated as is how well average person can convert, due to growing problems of gut biome problems. At this time it seems best to do hybrid strategy of both K1 and K2. Some studies say that at this point around 40-60% of K2 circulating comes from K1->K2 conversion. If you are vegan you can always eat natto or take supplements which are derived from natto if you want to be "safe". Problem of K2 vitamin is that the health effects of slight deficiency will probably not show until older ages unless you are child or have underlying health conditions. This is also somewhat problem in all overall health optimization, diet, exercise etc.
No Amendments, currently.
This was far more complex than initially thought. It speaks to how oversimplifying things can really lead us into a false sense of certainty (especially in the mechanisms section).
As I say There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics and finally there are simplifications. (Which give a false sense of understanding.) I often voice the latter bit.
thank you so much for everything you do
Thank you for doing the research and sharing it. It's frustrating that there's so little investment in proper studies on Vitamin D, especially when we only get anecdotes and inconclusive answers. This is a serious issue because people of color, who could benefit the most from Vitamin D supplementation, are left without clear guidance.
That's true. It's a topic I need to look into more, and hope to do so in the future. Thanks for your input!
@@Physionic I knew a Haitian in Montreal she and for all of the people of color African descent, Caribbean descent. The Canadian government gave them vitamin D droplets to add to their breastmilk as they breast-fed. It has proven to reduce rickets and children of color, I think it’s only America that doesn’t care about studying vitamin D.
Outstanding video (perhaps your best ever.). I intend to rewatch it multiple times. Thank you
Wow, thanks Pat - I think I could have done a few things better, but I'm glad it carried over. I appreciate it.
I hope you dont mind corrective comments. 1,25 has 2 OH groups so dihydroxy. 25 has only one OH group. Number refers to the position I believe.
No, I encourage them. I'll add an amendment, thank you.
Corrected, thank you.
Not only don't I understand this video, I don't even understand the comments.....so make it easy for us public school graduates....Vitamin D supplementation good? Yes or No?
Like always, I fervently smash the Like button. Thank you, Doctor.
Haha, thanks :)
Fantastic presentation! The fatal flaw in almost all the vitamin D research is that it evaluates the effects of supplementation without actually looking at serum levels. It's no wonder so much hetergeneity in the research. There is a wide variation in the effects of supplementation on serum levels. One's baseline serum level obviously matters, as does the point to which it is raised. Another less well known factor is one's level of fat mass (high levels requiring several times higher dose to effect the same increase in serum level as would be seen in a normal BMI). This topic is a special interest of mine (age 65, I have two VDR SNPs that make my VDRs less efficient, originally diagnosed with osteopenia 20-years ago, just into osteoporosis now and working diligently to improve my BMD).
Excellent that you brought up the fat mass.
I would postulate it has something, maybe a lot?, to do with muscle mass and whether one puts energy into exercise and/or weight lifting, etc. a few times per week.
Yes!! What we need are studies that look subjects who are deficient in Vitamin D (serum level), that intervene to bring them up to some specific target level (whether that is an accepted "normal" level, or a proposed "better" level), and then look at the consequences. This would mean monitoring their serum level and adjusting the intervention, because it's not the intervention dosage that's being tested, but the target serum level. This is better for providing guidance in clinical practice -- if a patient is being treated for Vitamin D deficiency, the treatment depends on their initial status, and they do need to be monitored and the treatment adjusted to get to the goal. Yes, there are some tricky ethical issues with any study that compares treatment to no treatment, as opposed to comparing two treatments, or a test treatment vs. current standard of care. One would need to be prepared to cut short the study if the weight of evidence clearly favors the test treatment, to offer the test treatment to the control group. (This has happened in a number of cancer treatment trials, including one I was enrolled in, which intended to determine whether chemotherapy was useful in addition to just surgery for "aggressive" breast cancer in young women.)
Magnesium, Calcium from food, vitamins D3 and K2 (preferably MK7 form)
Only known to a few, Boron salts (and that may be the simple borax) have important effects on Magnesium, Calcium and Phosphorus, free D3, free testosterone and estrogen and more.
Bone consists of minerals in a protein matrix. This matrix is formed from several amino acids. The best, most complete and bio-available source of amino acids is red meat.
Vitamin C is required.
Then some minerals work as co-factors, like copper, zinc, selenium, manganese and silicon in building this matrix.
long story short, everything is important
@@nab5035 probably. Lots of complex stuff going on..
Oh yes, vitamin D3 needs vitamin A to work optimal
Strongly disagree with your take on red meat. Best,most complete and most bioavailable source of amino acids is not red meat, it's whey protein and egg protein. They have highest PDCAAS and DIAAS scores out of all proteins. Red meat is not even close. Best plant based protein is soy protein isolate that is close to 90 percent complete ( slightly lower on methionine than whey)
The quality of food should not be defined by its amino acid distribution. Red meat is not associated with longevity; plant proteins are. Aside from being associated with a lower risk of frailty, animal protein was also associated with this one to a much lesser extent, though. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10884611/
I am always hungry for learning, so please don’t apologize when you go into statistical detail about the meta-analysis!
Can you make a video about FLUORIDE pleaseeee? and whether it is safe ion toothpastes :)
I also want this video
Boron helps the body use D, magnesium, and calcium more effectively. I’ve been taking supplements all my life, but it wasn’t until I add boron 2-3 mg 3 times a day that I got rid of all the crunching in my neck, shoulders, and knees - after three months. I would love to see some research dissection on this because boron is not considered an essential mineral, yet it apparently can have a profound impact.
I been taking 6000-8000 units for a few years now (biomarker on vitamin D says 146 which is within the test "normal range", I think their biomarker range go from 60 to 160 or so).
The vitamin D comes with K2 m7 and I honestly feel like my bones have become slightly thinner.
And yes I also supplement with magnesium to support vitamin D.
How much M-7?
I don't know the measure you're referring to with 146 but whichever it is you're in the "excess" or "intoxicated" range. Look up the normal values (40-80ng/ml)
you are taking fake vitamins
"I feel" is not the best measurement. Maybe without the supplements it would be worse. How long you are taking them? Maybe the results are not significant. Also I would always prefer natural sources for Vitamin D (sunlight, mushrooms), K2 (natto), Calcium (selfmade Kefir, chedar, milk)
Eat your greens people why do you think you need to supplement K when you can just eat your greens and let your microbiome take care of the rest.
2 important points, the first I saw also in another comment applies to all supplement studies: shouldn’t the main measure and goal be to determine optimal serum or other relevant tissue levels rather than assume as often occurs that we are looking to determine an optimal supplement intake level? Part of that might be a look at variations in individual absorption and if there is any, why that happens and any ways to identify that in advance.
My second ooint is far simpler but very relevant to any study. One of the top manufactureres and vendors to punlic and complementary health practitioners here in Australia discovered vit D really did not have great longevity after production and both changed their production methods and reduced the use by. I wonder how well studies check the compsition at consumption time of the substances they are investigating?
Nice video, Good Explanation on the Topic. And interesting to see a analysis on these Study Papers. My Question would be what would be the effect of d3 in combination K2 Or even adding magnesium or Vitamin a? Thanks for the video.
What if we combine it with some sort of stimuli for bone density increase, like running or strength training?
Maybe we can supplement with all the calcium, k2 and d3 in the world without getting an effect because we are missing the catalyst.
It's like eating protein when inactive🤷♂️
They didn't look at that, but I can say that stimulation of bones by resistance training has a potent effect - I'll likely cover that in the future.
@@Physionic
Absolutely!
Stress on muscles.
Stress on bones.
Should yield more strength and capacity for greater stresses…
Providing a person has a reasonable diet that provides all the nutrients needed.
Hi Nicolas, I really appreciate all your efforts making physionic UA-cam videos, they're intriguing and the way you teach feels natural.
Vitamin D dietary supplements all seem to contain Cholecalciferol as the main active form of Vitamin D. Do you think the quality/source is the same across all supplements? Would you look for anything in particular when choosing a vitamin D supplement please?
I very much appreciate your work. It is really nice to get solid information and not fluff.
Great and deep discussion on Vit D action on bones. It may be worthy to dedicate a podcast on vit D action on the immune system, which is highly emphasized by many longevity gurus.
Dr Greger did a video on K2 and not needing to supplement this, just eating your greens and let your microbiome do the rest. So I don't know why people still think you need to supplement K2. I mean I get mechanistically that it's needed to pull calcium into the bones so it doesn't calcify in the arteries, at least I suppose that's why people are worried about it. But instead of supplementing we should be eating whole plant Foods. At least that's my understanding...
I've always heard Vit D helps your body absorb and retain calcium, but Vit K tells the body where to put it. Obviously, that's an extreme oversimplification, but in general, K should promote calcium moving from soft tissues into bone, and it's K that supposedly really helps with bone density and fewer fractures. I've always assumed K and D to be synergistic, so studies that study D in isolation seem strange and potentially incomplete.
The K2 question is mine as well - I've been under the impression that they complement each other, and if a person's diet isn't giving them enough K2 (which is probably common?) then maybe supplementing with both would make a difference.....
Vitamin D : Since cholesterol is involved with the synthesis of Vitamin D , I wondered if the body would upregulate cholesterol in the event of a lack of vitamin D. That made me run into this study -- doi: 10.3897/folmed.63.e62417 -- Association between Dyslipidemia and Vitamin D Deficiency: a Cross-Sectional Study. I am blown away by the results , Then I don't know his labs reputation or if results have been confirmed elsewhere. Looking forward to see that topic held under the (sun)light .
A handful of years ago my D levels were low and I got a skin rash, patchy dry spots, and it's slowly spread from my chest throughout my upper body over the course of about a year. When I realized I was deficient in D I started supplementing. Then one day I went to the beach and I was only there getting sunlight and in the ocean for like 2 days at most. Soon thereafter It All vanished and it's been gone since. Now I don't know if it was the D or if it was going to the ocean. But I've been supplements since my D levels are good and I haven't had the rash since. And apparently it could have been psoriasis and a deficiency can cause that... So I guess there's a lot of other reasons to want to keep your deeds that is up there, for autoimmune diseases and your immune system in general.
Very interesting video. It would be more interesting to review the effects of vitamin D on the immune system. From my experience this is the key benefit to this core vitamin/hormone.
Yeah and psoriasis
I am not sure if you have already covered this in the video, but I could not seem to hear you mentioning this. Are the subjects involved in these studies not deficient in vitamin D without supplementations? If so, I would like to know if vitamin D supplementation can positively affect bone density in those who are deficient in vitamin D. That may also explain why some studies found an increase in bone health while others did not find any. Maybe some participants in some studies were deficient.
Studies START at 37:30.
I know you have touched on bone health here and there. Can you do an updated video on prevention of bone resorption, with all potential aids, especially with bone grafts, and especially if there are new coming possibilities for dental bone grafts which have terrible resorption rates? For example, is stem cell therapy getting close to helping with dental bone or any bone resorption issues at treatment sites? Or just overall with age?
Brillante Video.
Thank you very much !
After all of the time you’ve spent reading studies can we get a list of your recommended supplements/ vitamins?
Great and surprising analysis. I take it because of the just in case hypothesis. Sort of like carrying an umbrella on a sunny day. Or at least having one in the car.
Thanks for the video. 👍👍
Good discussion of some of the issues. I was surprised how few studies actually measured blood levels fo D3 or controlled for other sources (e.g. sunlight exposure time), so the confounders here are many.
Uncertainty is a given in these endeavors...so,
If one cannot definitively draw conclusions, that's par for the course.
Physionic, did you remove the " add this page to favourites " option from the address bar? Thank you
Half way through the video. So interesting.
I read somewhere that Vitamin D from sunlight stimulation is active and recycled by the body, also more readily taken up by Vitamin D receptors
nope
@@EVanDorennope what?
Present why disagree otherwise it's a 🤡 answer.
To consider that possibility one has to consider the other things that come with sunlight, such as melatonin.
And what the difference in physical activity is taking place in each person tested and the nutrients and foods each person is consuming.
@@glenntimberlake2413 yes ,there so many confounding variables it would take a futuristic advanced AI to account for everything
As a pharmacistassistent lab degree holder, sadly not in that bussiness anymore, i love the way you explain all these things the way you do. But i have a few questions? Do in combo with K2 what happens then and for immunesystem isn't that a totally different picture about the dose?
G r I m n e s “grymenzzz” 😂 I love the respect he gave to the enunciation 😂
Dr. ? so you just graduated?🤩
He did. Ph.D.
@@glenntimberlake2413 yey
Thanks for the "reductive" chat in the last couple minutes. You should make that into a short.
Can anyone disclose the effective dosage of D3+K2, for people who can't afford the insider subscription? Last winter i had problems with bone and muscle aches and 2000 IU didn't seem to help. I raised it to 4000 IU and it seemed to work better. I can't afford to pay for blood work either, so i have to do it by feel, and i want to be careful to not overdose.
Any thoughts?
2000 IU + K2 should be safe, but maybe you can afford the blood test once a year or once two years? The result does not change quickly, so even testing once two years would be way way better than "by feel".
I do d3 with k2(mk7) 5k units with 10 to 15 minutes of direct sun in afternoon on my back. Don't want it on my face, chest and arms.
I'm menopausal though. Going on hrt patch for the protection of heart, osteoporosis, and dementia protection benefits. The risks of those conditions are in my family and outweigh breast cancer risks.
@@Betsy.Ross76I agree the Combipatch saved my life. Worth any possible risks. 👍🏻
It's difficult to answer this question because there are so many variables involved in optimal levels. Sunlight strength, seasonality, latitude, degree of skin exposure, sun screen use, dietary sources, age etc. For me 64 year old male, high latitude, I found I needed 7500 IU to achieve 75 to 100 percent optimal levels. This was based on initial suplementation with 600 IU, then 1000, then 2500 and 5000 IU and subsequent blood test results. I suspect I need higher levels than many because of my age. HTH.
@@iancollings5047 Wow, I went through the same process, started low (400 a day), then 1000, 2000, 4000... and kept measuring blood levels once or twice a year until I was able to observe a satisfactory response.
Can anyone please provide summary if the video?
I know there are alot of efforts into making the video however I really don't have time to watch it and in need to know what's the key take aways.
Thanks in advance.
Skip to the end…?
I think it's interesting that the "low" levels of vitamin D were listed at 50 nmol/L. I believe the "normal" reference range starts at 30 nmol/L which is considerably lower than what they are calling low.
A lot of Drs will say that you're fine because you're in the "normal" range. If you look up optimal it's usually closer to 50-60 nmol/L.
not nm/L but ng/mL
supreme content
Would like to see a little more info on stem cells and osteoblasts.
What they do?
How they work?
How they originate?
How they acquire energy?
What makes them tick?
Kind of an overview. And a little in depth.
Probably too much for one presentation.
But it would be interesting.
I have a question about the bone matrix. Why is this always ignored in medicine? It seems to me that if the matrix has larger gaps in its collagen structure, there is less surface area for minerals to adhere to. Once the collagen matrix is fully saturated with minerals, additional minerals can't adhere.
Eating (significantly) more protein will contriute to a denser bone matrix, which will increase the bone density if enough calcium is consumed. And I would assume that in that context, vitamin D (and K2) will have a much stronger effect to increase bone density.
Are there studies about the effects of higher protein intake on bone density that indicate this?
thx
As I am the leading vitamin D Deficiency channel - this was a nice and wholesome video!
I heard to much vitamin D suppl,entation causes calcification in the arteries and heart.
Hmm , could coper bee the regulator of operations ?
I starter using Astaxantin Lycopene and NAC like 4-5 months ago, and I had a car accident and a head injury, they did blood work and found that I had very thin blood like I had prothrombin time pretty high, i dont know if its caused by supplements (in pubmed i found that its likely), or some type of therapy they did to me in the ospital, i never had this problem before starting supplementing, and also lymphocites were almost at minimum, not under, just the lowest possible, these supplements might have a pretty important role in preventing inflammation and cell damage, so they caused a lower immune system
Good question.
Consider whether you are consuming enough iodine via kelp or another method. Co Q 10 .
Other nutrients? Foods? Protein and fats and carbs ratio?
Just thinking out loud.
I hope you find resolution t9 the situation quickly.
@@glenntimberlake2413 i was vegan for 1.5 months before blood work, and doing intermittent fasting, i might do a blood work again maybe next Year to see
@@glenntimberlake2413 i will start taking vitamin B complex, vitamin D, potassium and calcium, because I am eating very little and vegan, so I need to supplement these, and maybe also arginine
need the condensed version
Coming. Or skip to the conclusions.
So it seems that D over a certain threshold, doen't have huge effect on bone density or fracture, but it has other benefits. If one has and overactive parathyroid gland, calcium is removed from the blood; Prolia injections every half-year, works throught Rank to minimize this. Despite the osteoblasts having more D receptons, if one had an overactive parathyroid gland, should one continue taking a RDI dose of say 400 IU of vit D or cut it out completely? What's your GUESS if sun and diet exposure is minimal?
If the person takes Vit D3 without exercising, particularly exercises that results in strength and endurance of the legs, falls will likely occur with broken bones.
I'm just guessing here, obviously, but I think Vit D3+Ca supplements for bone density are similar to protein for muscle growth: unless you pair them with growth stimulus they do nothing.
Keep I thought, different bones are designed for different purposes, thus different density. ;-)
instant like, don't even have to play the video
Thanks Justin
I guess all can agre that insufficiens in D can be harmful to bones?
There is no way synthetic Vitamin D supplementation is the same as what happens when we receive natural sunlight. I think when we supplement high dose isolated vitamin/mineral supplements it’s easy to create imbalances. Whole Foods provide a better balance of nutrients and are less likely to create problematic imbalances. Synthetic Vitamin D makes me excessively urinate…and also a couple old injuries of mine felt like they were locking up and becoming very tight if that makes sense. I was also taking K2 and Magnesium. Somehow this combination also gave me anxiety and shortness of breath. I do feel the Vitamin D (5,000/day) helped my immune system, but overall I feel much better not taking the D/K2/Mag. I prefer to get my nutrition from food and sun. I like raw milk/butter/ cream, salmon, sardines, mackerel, eggs, red meat/ckicken/pork, avacado, fruit, and occasionally nuts.
Chemically, they're identical.
Wow. I sleep better than ever with the d3k2 and magnesium. My blood work is way better than it was 2 years ago when I hit menopause and bad diet caught up to me.
I eat most of what you list and I get 10 to 15 movies
Minutes of noonday sun on my back about 5 days a week. Don't want photo aging on my face. 😂
You certainly take a good assortment of great nutrients.
Diet wise, You are probably way ahead of most of us humans.
I certainly appreciate your good choices.
I am curious how often you consume salmon, sardines, etc.
The fish mentioned are among those give a very good amount of protein/ amino acids including a healthy amount of taurine, healthy fats, and a number of great nutrients.
@@Physionic
I always wonder what other nutrients and minerals
are simultaneously consumed that we are not aware
of or that have effects that we are not aware of.
@@Physionic
What you said about the possibility of ignoring important formation while looking at the one thing and what it does. That’s something I always wonder about.
I don't understand all this effort and money spent on trials with such low doses: perhaps thats pharma's influence aiming to minimise benefit and so promote their products. Vit D studies also show that 5000IU to 10000IU is more likely the beneficial level for most people.
you sound tired
hope you get rest and a hug and some time in the sun soon
Vitamin D has tons of functions...
Discussing things scientifically, we can't overextend the work. We have to stay focused and systematic on one outcome (bone health), before we move onto the next outcome; otherwise, we end up doing everything badly.
@@Physionic Sure.
What a waste of one hour and twenty three minutes, vitamin D3 should be taken with K2 show us those studies and the conclusion of those studies.
Thank you Tom - I appreciate the kind words on my 3 weeks or work. That acknowledged, I'd be happy to look into K2, as well - one thing at a time. Thank you again for your kindness and generosity, I'm blown away by your sensible, measured, respectful approach.
@@Physionic My comment is not meant for your hard work and effort more towards such thinking that a element like vitamin D3 ONLY is going to make bones denser on its own, to even do such studies is worthless.
Take magnesium we know that it is needed in the body because it has effects of over 300 processes in the body so why would anyone think that D3 ALONE I is going to have such an effect on our bones.
As you and I know the body needs various vitamins and minerals and amino acids to function properly.....
Blasters build and clasters blast. Not cool.
@@Physionic
LOL
Interesting response.
Good work.!
It is appreciated by most.
@@PhysionicI very much appreciate your work and effort Nick and totally think that was a poor and totally unappreciative response but perhaps he points the way for ongoing reviews of other substances claimed to improve bone density (not just k2) alone and in combinations.
It is amazing on yt the thoughtless Comments and sense of entitlement from people as if they were actually paying for what they are watching which most aren’t…