Passenger Stops Pilots from Landing | ATC vs Pilots
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- Handling air traffic control, flying and dealing with passengers sometimes doesn't go as planned, these are some of those cases.
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Chapters:
intro - 0:00
Sick - 0:40
Ground - 5:37
Airborne - 13:40
ATC opinion - 18:19
Texas - 22:14
On my very first solo cross country, I was to land at a small suburban airport outside of Atlanta. Something happened to close that field and I was told to divert to Hartsfield. To say that stark terror ensued would understate my feelings at that moment. As I listened to the complex, rapid fire radio chatter, I thought, "I can't do this. I should just fly into the side of Stone Mountain and save everybody a lot of trouble." In panic, I blurted, "I'm a student. They diverted me here and I have no idea what to do." a few seconds later, a grandfatherly voice said, "it's OK, son. We're gonna get you on the ground just fine." He talked me through the approach and I landed without incident. Now, many years and thousands of hours of airline flying later, I've never forgotten the patience and kindness of that unknown controller.
Son! It must have been Jerry Reed.
Great story. Thanks for sharing.
Epic!! I'm a new PPL with just over 140 hours (working on my instrument rating) in the ATL area, and cannot IMAGINE dealing with landing at KATL, emergency or not! Of course, I'd love to get good (not just bold) enough for that to be feasible...lol!
Great story. I remember my first solo cross country being asked by tower to extend downwind so far that I lost sight of the airfield 😧. Many years later I flew to Texas for the first time and couldn’t even understand Houston centre’s accent on the radio 😆
ATC are there to help keep everything moving smoothly and can do a lot to help if a pilot asks for help.
I don't work in the industry, nor am I a pilot, but it sounds like your "blurting" was succinct and appropriate.
I was taught, when I contacted ATC on a solo, to say “student pilot on a solo”. It was very helpful as ATC started talking slower and was very helpful right of the bat. They immediately understood what/who they were dealing with and communicated accordingly.
Very useful info, thanks for sharing that tip.
I didn't have to say that and it wasn't asked of me. But the airport I solo'd in was easy enough and I was okay with radio. Also, pretty sure they KNEW I was on my solo!
I typically, when early in my solo days, used the “student pilot solo” only once that I can remember. While on short final to runway 11 at KHPN (home base) the controllers asked me to land and hold short of 16 for landing aircraft. I wasn’t confident enough back then so I expressed this to tower who simply had me go around. I was proud of myself for not pushing my personal comfort level and actually expressing it.
@Karen S Thanks for the help, I have trouble with BKingese but I am fluent in Maccideez, for example, "ghiiogb jjesda ffgghhhh" means the McFlurry machine is broke.
Same for me! ATC was amazing on my first solo and cheered me on :)
The "we don't have perfect aim" joke got me, good job Kelsy.
So much good advice. I'm a former Air Force pilot, and I can't recommend this advice enough. I wish I had this advice as a kid when I first started flying. Great job, Kelsy
glad you enjoyed it and thank you for your service Mish!
mish130. Did my flight training at the NAS Barbers Pt Navy Flying Club, on Oahu where most of my CFIs were military aviators. Just wanted to say thank you for your service...and that I feel incredibly lucky to have trained with them! That also goes for some of the controllers as well. And extends to the inter-island and ATPs who would let all us rookies know approach speeds and stuff for our aircraft. There is nothing like the spirit of ohana among the Island pilots. The willingness to share their knowledge and experience always made for wonderful training flights! Like how many newly licensed pp's get to fly a GCA? It was a rarity even then and something I'll cherish forever! Note to student pilots: Never pass up the odd opportunity to catch a flight you hadn't anticipated. I had such an opportunity along with a CFI and a staff photographer from the University of Hawaii's anthropology department to get some infrared shots of a potential archeological site. It was a chance to get in some practice with turns around a point while keeping a steady altitude, not to mention exploring a personal passion.
We'd only made two fairly wide turns when the photographer said he felt sick. Anyway, that's how I ended up with a very expensive camera and no idea how to use it. He gave me a quick brief, and sat back looking really grayish. I popped the Cessna's window and positioned the camera and shot a bunch of frames. We headed back to the club house, fixed the photographer up with some 7Up and a few cookies...and the very expensive camera I was terrified of dropping while we were circling and called it a day. About a week later I learned that some of the shots I took were now on display in the campus museum and that yes, it was an ancient village, so my name was on the floor to ceiling shot and a few others. I nearly fainted, but it turned out to be an honor to be included as a team member.
Life is definitely a highway with lots of turns and has a way of calling your name. Answer it.
yup. Lots of advice👍
What did you fly? My dad was an aircraft machinist for the majority of his enlistment.
@@cbufffly That's a marvelous story! You stepped up when you were needed, to do something you'd never dreamed of doing, gave it your best, and just kept going - and somehow, when we handle things this way, they almost always turn out so much better than we anticipated. It's great that they credited you as one of the photographers, which you surely deserved. Really enjoyed your story.
I love how humble Kelsey is and how he reinforces practice and that making mistakes is part of the process. This will make you better in literally anything you do.
Well said
Learn from your mistakes and the mistakes of others. Doing this will help you and others make less mistakes. I know a lot of these are done in a fun and joking manner but there is also a lot of valuable information to be learned while keeping it in a light and joking manner as well.
Agreed. I feel that part of Kelsey's charm is his humility.
It helps that commercial aviation has a culture that supports this approach, rather than simply firing everyone who makes a mistake.
Humble and down-to-earth. He is not being dramatic or silly in an effort to get more viewers. That is very much appreciated.
When you're a student pilot sometimes you wish you could hit pause and collect your thoughts. The more you mess up little thing the more overwhelmed you get.
Like quicksand.... the more you get flustered, the worse it gets.
True in so many areas in life. 👌
There's one aspect to learning any skill I think a lot of people either disregard or don't fully think of; you don't know what you don't know. If your instructor missed something, or your instructions were vague or you heard/studied wrong radio phraseology or anything of that nature, well, you don't know what that instruction missed. Your first opportunity to discover what that was... is when you fail to do it/know it. And then, exactly right, once you discover that, you get a bit overwhelmed, because you also get that little voice in the back of your mind going "well if you didn't know that... what else don't you know?" And now that gets to be something that you consciously think of for the remainder of that experience.
I work for a railroad, my 16 year old son wants to be a pilot(which is why I'm here)
One of the hardest things for any new employee is the radio and the lingo. Hell, I had a hard time when I first started. It just takes time and repetition and you eventually get it. But anytime I hear a new employee get on the radio and repeat something very basic you can tell how nervous they are. And when they do get it right (because they will eventually) they have a sense of accomplishment in their voice. Just wanted to share
Thanks for the parallel
I can expect the curmudgeons of the workforce will be quick to judge them too
Luckily they tend to not be liked anyway
There's a trick to learning it, learn how to spell using the NATO alphabet and start with your name.. I know the whole thing well enough to tell bad jokes using the NATO alphabet 😂 For me, it's useless information.. I'm going to teach my son so he knows it when he joins the Navy..
I really feel bad for student in 8236B as her instructor had not set her up for success. Those exchanges really show that she may not have been totally prepared. Although I learned on a small field, we flew to towered airports enough before my first solo cross country flight to know what to expect. I was also given the homework of taking my little aircraft band radio to a towered airport and just listen to what was happening there and to hear the rhythm of the communications. Despite all of this, I still wound up getting behind the plane when the approach controller gave me instructions that I wasn't expecting. I totally went into brain lock and wound up too close to the class D airport when I checked in. I got scolded. But I learned. This poor girl just learned a bunch all at once and the hard way.
Agree that her instructor did not prepare her. But...… every single kid I see in flight school today thinks they're ready to solo long before they're ready to solo. One young man confided in me that his instructor was "slow-walking" him bc he wouldn't let him solo. He has 9 hours.
I have about 11 hours right now, working on my PPL. Once you hit that radio button, all of the thoughts in your head go out the window lol. That said, unless it’s something new, I’m confident in most of my radio calls, and I’ve been making most of them the past few lessons.
I love how humble Kelsey is, and even when he’s critiquing someone, he says “it’s okay-I’ve done it too!” Such a kind soul. Also, LOVE that he’s a Texan!!
Ikr! Being just a glider pilot, I enjoy hearing things Kelsey says about flying, as much of what he brings up - it's always a been there/done that. The humbleness, the proper explanation, the going into their shoes, love it 😍
Wait??!?!? He is a Texas too??!??!? shit I knew I loved that guy!
He is Texan! I just knew it! Luv ya Kelsey! :D
Isn't he from southern California?
Bruh since when he said he's from Texas? Just asking not hating or anything
"I'm not that smart" - This is probably one of your best safety features, being humble adds tons to safety. I'd feel comfortable with you at the wheel.
After listening to a lot of these ATC incidents, you come to realize we have enough egotistical pilots out there. Always good to hear from the level-headed ones
Being smart holds a LOT of responsibility. Saying you're not smart is actually the smartest way to do.
I mean, not being egotistical is great, but I do feel like he may have gone too far in the opposite direction - that he's kinda "limiting" himself 'cause he thinks he's not smart enough to do something.
@@Vousie There's a thing called dunning Krueger. It's real. I've met many ignorant people in my life that really thought they were smart and knew just about everything. I was one of those people, long ago.
But what I have learned, is that the more I learn, the dumber I feel. There is an infinite amount of knowledge that I have not grasped yet, on an infinite number of topics, many of which, I will never even know the name of.
I've taught people how to become experts, and they think they are smart starting out, but they ate truly useless. As they perfect their expertise, they report feeling dumber than when they started.
His humility comes directly from his depth of knowledge. I've actually met Sulley and listened to him speak. He's as humble as all get out, but there is not a pilot on this planet that doesn't worship the ground he walks on.
Kelsey is cut from the same cloth (but maybe a little gayer). 😂 I really would feel extra comfortable riding in his planes.
@@FelonyVideos TL;DR. I've heard of Dunning Krueger (obviously), but you missed my entire point: Humility is great. It's excellent.
But there is an opposite extreme. It's called having no self-esteem. And that's bad too.
This ATC is extremely patient and really holding her hand threw this! Her instructor really should have spent more radio time with her.
Through.
I was so Lucky my instructor was also an air traffic controller. He had me extremely sharp on the radio's. I live in Houston and I was able to fly into the complex Houston George Bush airport with low flight time for practice on the weekends when I flew solo. The controllers let me in sometimes if they weren't too busy when they would turn others away because I was good on the radio. 74 gear this is so good advice and such a good video. Always if you get nervous you can tell ATC you are a student pilot and they will give you more help. That is one of the tricks my air traffic controller taught me. When I soloed a jerk in a twin cut across the uncontrolled airport mid field unannounced heading straight for me when I was on my first downwind leg in the pattern. This scared me badly and shook me up. Can we say adrenalin rush. My hands started shaking. I turned away from him and did S turns to give me us safe distancing from each other. My instructor is to be commended because he hammered radios and safe distancing and other stuff in my head. He complemented me for distancing myself from the jerk and was hopping mad and chewed the twin driver out when he landed.
" *We don't become super snipers once the turbulence hits* "
Best part of the entire video
Lol super snipers
most disgusting tbh. just sit down ffs
@@RainbowSushiii Like your drunk hover is any better...🤣🤣🤣
How to be a good pilot:
C) communicate, like, erm... clear like
F) atention to detail
X) know your alphabet
HA! Thanks for the laugh!
“atention to detail” with the typo lol.
Erm?
@@behindthen0thing525 that's Northern Ontarian for umm lol
ehhhhhhh forgot the most ehhhhhhhh important.
49 years ago when I did my first solo 3 takeoffs and landings, I was well prepared for the radio work because my instructor made sure that, in addition to learning the mechanics of flight, I was competent on the radio. I've seen way too many instructors "handle" the radio for the students, and then when the students are first confronted with fast-talking (normal speed to everyone else lol) controllers, they are totally lost. Not suggesting her instructor did this per se, but the student obviously wasn't properly prepared for the clearance / readback procedures, or proper vernacular for that matter. That's not on her, but on her instructor. I really chuckled at her response re: her finally saying she was a student - "well you didn't ask"... I made sure, as a student pilot, that the guy on the other side of that $5 radio shack speaker (back when that was state of the art in a Piper Cherokee 140) knew I ws just learning. Likewise, when building my Instrument rating, giving the controllers a tip that I was a newbie in their realm went a long way to slowing them down and getting my clearances right the first time around (most of the time). Clear skys and full tanks to y'all!
Not aeronautics, but my riding instructor was similar, lol. It Saved my bacon when a rattler spooked my horse and again when I was jumping and lost my stirrup. There were tons more times that her making sure I had everything down to the nines saved me but those were the most dangerous mishaps that could have happened but didn't. If you set your student for success then when they do get into the thick of it, they have a ton more under their belt to handle it.
I feel like most of the stuff he says can be applied to most things in life... accepting your mistakes, not blaming others, treat other people nicely, etc. etc. xD I love it
We called that common sense once upon a time
I love aviation for this reason. Common sense, simply, isn't common. To have some reasonable guidance and genuine advice is priceless❤️ makes those that may feel 'slower' then the rest be seen and heard!!!
So true! You don’t have to memorize different sets of rules. Treat others with respect and behave honorably. And stay curious!
We don’t become super snipers when turbulence hits…you really make me smile sometimes funny as.
Reading this comment out of context before watching and thinking "what the f*** could you be talking about", makes it even more funny when you get there 😂
Hey he can’t speak for all men tho. I grew up in a house of women, I was forced to be a sharpshooter
I hard disagree with this one 😂 we HAVE to become super snipers
SUPER SNIPER
i AM super sniper *puts sunglasses in a cool fashion* lol
When I was a student, my instructor taught me the six Ps.
Prior preparation prevents piss-poor performance
I was taught the 7 Ps. Same meaning, just more wordy, I guess:
Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
And then there's also the inverse:
Poor prior planning produces piss poor performance.
@@skyhawk_4526 I learned it (the 6 P's) at a bank I worked. It was explained as yours, but without the 'proper.' No matter which version, one needs to plan. We were also told, "failure to plan on your part, does not constitute an emergency on my part." Of course, working in a bank is not the same as being in a flight crew, so plan or no plan, you'll get the help.
I learned the 7th P version as well lol
And presentation skills (+ talking to ATC) - K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid).
I absolutely love how the controller is talking to her, taking her under his wing (no pun in tended) and being so paternal and patient with this nervous novice student. That's a good controller.
What are you talking about? he was a little irritated at first, then got snarky with her at the end?
Wasn't she with ground first?
@@toericabaker that was the second controller wasnt it? the first one was kind but after the frequency change to tower the new controller was a grumpy a**
@@toericabaker: While she was in contact with the ground controller, he figured out by her bad comms that she was a student doing a solo. Once she switched frequency to ATC, she continued with her bad comms, but ATC didn't know she was doing her first solo with 3 takeoffs and 3 landings. She should've stated her solo status and intentions, rather than let ATC figure it out, because once she gets the runway and then takes off, the risks become far greater for everyone on the ground and in the air.
WOW did this bring back memories... I was on my first solo cross country. I flew over my destination and looked down to check the wind. The airport had a wind tetrahedron. I had read about them but never seen one. I went through some mental gymnastics and decided which way to enter the pattern and land. I then taxied into the FBO and got my log book signed. When I was ready to leave, I asked how to taxi back to the departure end of the runway. The person who signed my log book smiled and said, "Oh you are the one that landed downwind." Now then guess what airport I was landing at...Joplin MO...the same airport in your story. This was more than 50 year ago before they had a tower. Yes, I had about 20 hours when this happened!
My Uncle who was a retired USAF Lt Col. would always say "The dullest pencil remembers better than the sharpest mind"
I've had some pencils so dull they couldn't remember anything.
@@kenbrown2808 Oh golly, you owe me a keyboard that I spat on! I don't know what I was expecting, but it wasn't that! 💛💚
@@theresechristiansen9769 we accept no liability for electronics damaged.
Stealing
I never heard that saying before, and I wish I had, because it's so true. I'm gonna add that one to my repertoire of wise sayings with broad applications. Awesome.
"Uh, You didn't ask ..."
I see we have an advanced student today.
I'll get some hate for this but that screams female all day long.
@@ourtime-downhere6931 Agreed. Kelsey is too kind. ATC guy might be snarky, but her spoiled fake high pitched voice and stupid talking don't have place in such job.
@@ourtime-downhere6931 how does that scream female?
Some of the reasons I love your videos is your humble attitude and your kindness and consideration of others.
Humility in life, in any domain or industry is starkly underrated!!! I so appreciate this guy!!!
When I did my final solo cross country flight, prepping for my Private check ride, I flew from Canton, Ohio (small grass strip runway) to a couple of destinations, including Dayton Cox. I got too low (legal, but not great visually) on my base leg, and actually turned onto final for the wrong runway. (6L, instead of 6R) I was a bit too far out too, so I hadn't caused any immediate problems, and the controller was great. Instead of calling my an idiot, he simply asked, "Are you intending to land on runway 6 Right?". That got my attention, causing me to scrutinize the airport diagram more closely, and I was able to jink over to the right and get lined up, without causing any danger, and without further embarrassment. Nice of him to do that, and it helped me appreciate controllers more, and study harder, to avoid those mistakes in the future.
nice when people can be gracious and understanding, compared to the type of person at work who replies with "as I wrote in my last email, such and such ....."
Beautiful story. Such an amazing thing to see the empathy being shown in these stories. Makes me more confident for my time to take to the sky.
Im someone who can barely hold a conversation while driving a car nevermind flying a plane and talking to someone on a radio. Mad respect to pilots
You sound like a better person than most.
I could see myself learning to operate the controls on an aircraft, but I'm super spacey and could never handle all the radio chatter...
Yeah, no way in hell could I do that. No matter how much practice, wouldn't even be able to practice to begin with, would crash the plane with the instructor in it, 100%. I get distracted far too easily, and even have issues driving alone if I don't take my meds, let alone flying.
@@margotrosendorn6371 like Kelsey said, the key is preparation. If you studied the charts and you know how to get where your going. Then the read backs are just repeating what you already know.
Like driving a car. It can be quite stressful when your lost. But if your doing a journey you do all the time it’s quite easy to get there and realise you were day dreaming the whole way and have no recollection of the journey.
Hello Kelsey, Paramedics also communicate with dispatch centers using the phonetic alphabet, so I always advised my students to read off vehicle license plates as they drive around. It quickly becomes much easier for them to use and understand. Cheers
My Dad taught me the military alphabet in the 70s and I perfected it watching The Bill, listening to the police say plates.
Learn to spell using it, starting with your name.. Works a treat 👍🏻
I think solo time was a pain for all of us in one way or another. Whether it was nerves, coms, directions or a bit of all of it. I was fortunate enough to take off from an airport with a school attached. They were perfectly capable of getting me where I needed to be.
Well, everyone starts like that. For non-flyers it may seem like these pilots are idiots but when you’re flying, your brain shrinks to the size of a pea. I had the pleasure of working with understanding and dedicated ATCs. I wasn’t the sharpest flyer when I was a student. I now fly a big jet. Goes to show you can definitely improve.
I definitely agree, however I think there is no way this student was prepared to solo. Students I know were amazing on their solo, and I wasn’t that bad (I certainly wasn‘t a hotshot though). Maybe that’s anecdotal.
Nice . How long did it take to be able to fly that jet?
@@lucasbrien5008 Maybe. First time I flew in a busy class C airspace, I read back all the headings and altitudes wrong. I was prepared(on paper) but hearing that an A320 was waiting for me to do the approach just threw me off my game. So…. I don’t know man.
@@funny_man8779 2 years. :) I was lucky to be a part of an airline program.
@@drewsmith3973 nice . I am Considering joining flight school at some point .
On my first solo in pattern, after 11 hours, I said "student on first solo" on every call, and the controller spoke at the same fast speed (I am not even a native speaker) and at the end of the day a technical issue with the aircraft resulted in the tower filing a possible pilot deviation, tower number to call and a nice chat with an FAA guy who basically told me that he had no idea whatsoever why ATC did that to me, considering that I followed perfect aeronautical decision making. At 300+ hours, IFR, CPL, working on my CFI and CFII, I am still based at that same airport, KLAF, I love ATC, and I visited KLAF and KIND tower a couple of times :)
Bad days happen to everybody.
I could watch your videos all day long. My Dad was military ATC and I have never really appreciated it until now in my middle age and he has since gone 'Home' a few years back. I appreciate hearing both sides. Aviation is amazing.
Same here. My dad was an International Airline Captain and I didn’t really appreciate what he did like I do now. I was always proud of him, but now even more so. ❤
On my first solo, the instructor had me pull up in front of the Tower at PDK (Peachtree Dekalb Airport) Atlanta. He told me I was doing my Solo then hopped out of the plane. I proceeded to taxi to the end of the runway. Did all my checklists, and prepared to take off. As I started the takeoff, I got my speed, climbout was great, then I entered my left crosswind and that's when the door on the right side of the plane popped open! It went from an easy solo to controlled chaos. I kept trying to stick to my flying, communicating, checklists, and was trying to close and latch that door, which was slightly out of reach all at the same time. Instead of doing a touch a go, I landed the plane instead. When I taxied back to the tower, I started screaming at my instructor for not latching the door. He couldn't stop laughing. I thought he did it on purpose, but he really didn't realize he didn't latch it. But I'll tell you what, I never take off without checking that door!
Had doors open all the time as a student pilot
Have you seen the ATC recording of the student pilot who takes off on her solo flight and promptly loses a wheel? Everybody does a really great job.
That’s on VASAviation channel. Highly recommended
Ya I was hoping Kelsey would do a review on that flight, was a great story
Maaaaaggieeeeee
Yeah, Maggie has become a bit of a legend now because of that trip.
Omg, Maggie's voice... SO heartbreaking.
Landed like a total BOSS though!
Had to laugh at the description of the winds during your solo. “Crosswind of 10 knots felt like 40……. They were probably calm”
I love your sense of humor. Being able to joke about yourself is a wonderful attribute. So kind of you to explain this in the way you do. You are awesome!
I’m glad you talk about general aviation on your channel. When I was starting to learn to fly it was from PBIA an International air port. I had a radio at home that I could listen to ATC. It helped greatly.. I was never intimidated by large fast talking airports.
I remember how super helpful ATC was for my first solo. On the last practice circuits with the instructor there were 7 other aircraft in the circuit. After I called up adding "first solo" to the call sign I got great slow instructions and once I got airborne I heard how they cleared the way ahead. Turning others onto orbits, extending downwind until I was number two instead of number 8 for landing. Made my life a lot easier, just flying instead of worrying about missing one of the other aircraft in the circuit.
Just gonna be “that guy” and go ahead and point out that wasn’t Katherine Hepburn. That was Cate Blanchett playing Katherine Hepburn in The Aviator. The accent may vary from the real one that Katherine had.
Ha ha - I was going to say the same. Cate Blanchett did a pretty good job with the accent, I think.
Yeah, it took me half a second. I thought perhaps he was going to give two examples & show them both. But, having watched my share of Hepburn movies & some of her interviews as well, I’d say Cate is surprisingly accurate here. Maybe just a little exaggerated, which is often what you’ll see when someone does an impersonation.
Thanks, saved me from posting it. True, she did a very close version though.
I'll play the role of "the other guy" here and point out it's not generally called a "Trans-Atlantic" accent, it's a "Mid-Atlantic" accent, at least when taught in drama schools.
@@bobd2659 Both names for the accent are given on the wikipedia page for that accent.
I just recently found your channel and am having sooo much fun. Thanks. This particular video gave me flashbacks! I'm 60 now but in my 20's I was in the USAF and in training at Keesler AFB. My roommate was studying to be an Air Traffic Controller. I remember coming into my dorm room and he has socks and shoes and underwear placed all around the room. He was practicing giving taxiing instruction, landing instruction, planes in the pattern.... As a young guy you want to make fun of him - but I respected his dedication to practice... study... and get it right. I don't know what happen to him - but I'm pretty sure he was amazing. Thanks for the memory.
This made me chuckle a bit. When going to school to be a surgical tech I did pretty much the same thing. Towels, bowls, kitchen utensils, i found anything and everything to practice opening and setting up.
I'll admit it I felt stupid when people would see me but I was also the only student in my class to get a job offer from the hospital I did my extern at. Not sure now, but I also know I was the only one in my class actually working in the field a year later. It may look silly but it pays off later when you've got the basics down and can actually set your mind on the important things you should currently be learning.
As you mentioned (04:08), Kelsey, a compact airplane potty can soon become quite nasty if too many of its visitors stand in front of the bowl and ignore their splattered and missed shots. My mother taught her four boys one simple act of bathroom etiquette that has helped us avoid "sprinkling" the toilet, thereby creating a sanitation crisis for the next person visiting the lu. Her advice (command) established that a gentleman ALWAYS SITS so a lady NEVER has to stand. Good idea.
She also added one more directive that was especially helpful in airplane potties. "Before you leave, take a towelette and do something (anything) to make the facility cleaner than it was before you came in."
Mom died back in 2017. But, whenever I think of her and her wise counsel, I become "flushed with admiration".
"If you sprinkle when you tinkle, be a sweet and wipe the seat."
My aunt had a plaque on the bathroom wall that read, "If you sprinkle when you tinkle, please be neat and wipe the seat".
On an Army latrine wall, "Be like Dad, not like Sis, lift the seat before you piss".
Same apply for construction potty
Seriously some people just make it more nasty for everyone
Those potty are hot like hell and it doesn't help if there is piss everywhere and unflush toilet paper stuck with shjt
Always save my business for lunch so i could go in a Maccas's toilet
why would you sit and pee when you can just pee like a man and then also just wipe the seat real quick. wtf???
@@SobeCrunkMonsterhahahahahahahahh 😂😂 I was hoping there was a comment like that in this thread and you delivered 🤝🏼
Unfortunately I've known a few towers who will get really snippy with students. Recently I was giving one of mine some tower experience at a new tower. On the landing rollout she brought the aircraft to a taxi speed and was proceeding to the taxiway. The tower came on and started basically yelling at her to not stop and clear the runway for traffic on final. First, she never stopped, the tower never asked for an her to expedite, and she was never responsible for his spacing. That dude really has issues. It seems he is always fighting with pilots rather than working with us. I'd never send a solo student to that tower. Those guys exist unfortunately.
I drive a bus and we use radios like this, too. It really sucks when the dispatchers don't know how to handle someone new. As a baby driver, I was always too nervous to let go of the wheel to grab the radio and lots of people are just like me. So now I tell them to get to a stop, a light, a stop sign, and then answer. If the dispatcher are snippy or rude, act like you don't hear it; that's they're problem, not yours. Don't apologize, just answer the radio or let them call you back if you missed the transmission. Just because they want you to be perfect immediately, doesn't mean that they get to have that.
I know aviation has higher expectations and narrower margins, but the principal is still the same. Confidence and efficiency come with time and experience ONLY. No one on the other end of the radio can bully you into it.
@Joshua Landry Damn, who pissed in his corn flakes?
Ah, ego-off. He ain't worth the trouble. Some people are just jerks but we all have bad days.
@@adde9506 The principle behind "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" applies to more than just flyin'!
They don’t have an easy job either - they’re a totally different breed, they work off of numbers and efficiency. They’ve got a pre-set list of expectations for their “plan” and when someone messes with it, they get frustrated. Unfortunately usually the most competent folks get the PITA distinction and work more complicated airports. Some of that is on the instructor too, you never hang out on an active runway - that should be driven home pretty early in training. I think it’s sorta seen as “insulting” to the tower, honestly. 😐
Just curious…Who do u call to report an “issue” with ATC?
Those calls in that solo actually hurt me. Hope she ended up being okay , she was clearly not ready to solo. Irresponsible instructor….
Agreed. I can't imagine an instructor sending a student up to solo without knowledge of basic communication. I don't fault the pilot too much- it seems a tough skill to master but..."okay"? Clearly not ready and the student should have told the instructor she didn't feel ready
Her instructor may have been sick of her attitude, and told her if she thinks she can do it, then go for it.
@@mtlassen1992 Yeah that's reasonable, assuming a person you don't know has an attidude from hearing a 5 minute conversation. Totally tracks.
But she already paid for 20 hours, the instructor was somewhat under pressure I guess.
@@mtlassen1992 so he sent her out to kill herself? This isn’t just comms she has to fly a plane!!
I like your management approach. Short and to the point without condemnation. Makes it a more pleasant atmosphere to learn.
I know nothing about aviation except as a passenger. I came across your channel and really enjoy seeing the "inside story" of flying from your viewpoint. It was
obvious that the student pilot was not prepared for her solo and that she was rattled and very anxious which I would be also. Your suggestion that the ATC wait until she parked the plane then give her a
phone number for a conference call with her instructor was excellent. I'm sure she became even more anxious after speaking with ATC because she stopped using her call sign. A little kindness goes a long way. Thanks for the great videos.
Yeah, as Kelsey mentioned, her radio skills need a lot of work. And he is right that the instructor has a little to do with how unprepared she is for this solo flight. I also love how Kelsey is very humble in how he said he was horrible at ATC conversation at one point as well.
I’m trying to understand how an instructor signs her off to solo, unless now in the airplane alone for the first time she’s forgotten damn near everything. You made a great point: she was not prepared for this flight, and that’s an instructor’s job to ensure. I believe that after ground, on initial contact with tower, we would tell them “departing to the north” or “would like to remain in the pattern”. Either her instructor never demonstrated or made her do this, she’s simply way under-prepared for towered operations (her initial call up sounded like a class G airport), or it all melted out of her brain. This is not her fault.
If she’s not ready, she’s not ready. Spend more time in the right seat making her do everything and correcting where needed. That’s better than sending her into the air - she doesn’t know what she doesn’t know - and then finding out the worst way possible she’s so worked up she can’t remember how to land.
Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me that the controller thought she was departing to somewhere else. We never heard her clearance. He did say to contact departure. Which should have been a big clue that he was trying to hand her off and she was leaving the airport... I don't get what was going on.
My first solo was strictly a supervised solo in the traffic pattern. Supervised meaning the instructor was there at the airport listening on a radio and even watching from the ground. And in the traffic pattern literally meant I wasn't to go anywhere outside the airport pattern and control. This first solo was strictly for touch and goes. I was originally following part 141 rigid curriculum which helps... and converted to the more loose curriculum style part 61 as I had more than enough hours to do part 61 to finish the necessary instruction and take the exam for my PPL.
So maybe she was part 61 and they had her do multiple things on her first solo... which I think is crazy.
I was in class C so you call up clearance in which you state your intentions for the flight, but even in D you would advise ground of all your intentions.
And this would get passed on to the tower.
And if it wasn't, my experience weird things can and do happen, we're all human, you would correct ATC when things aren't happening as planned... hearing the controller passing me on to departure when I mean to stay in the pattern is sort of those red flags that things are confused... time to speak up and say something asap.
Everything about this seems odd.
I mean, surely the instructor should've done at least a flight or two where he's there but not actually saying/doing anything unless he needs to - as a "practice solo" flight... If he'd done that, then he would've seen her poor radio communication...
It's pretty standard that people fly solo after 20 hours. She made sure by not studying that she is not ready
@@SF-eo6xf I think in this case I'm gonna go with the actual pilot, Kelsey, rather than a random person on the internet.
In any case, it's still the instructor's responsibility to check that the student knows enough before letting them on the solo flight. If she hadn't studied enough to get there, then the instructor shouldn't have let her go fly solo.
@@Vousie and where did I disagree with Kelsey?
I loved this video! Brings back some really good memories. Part of the learning process. Just love it. Thank you!
You're an admirable person. Thanks for sharing your inspiring personality with the world.
I’m not a pilot nor am I gonna be one - yet I love watching your videos as you are such a humble human being! Real quality content! 👍🏼
I'm in the same boat as you Denise W!
I’m often amazed at how many student pilots I see getting lost at on ground. Flight instructors- how are you not teaching your student pilots to review the airport diagram and discuss the likely taxi routes prior to calling ground? Or at least teaching them to tell ground they are students and would appreciate progressive instructions. I am much happier to give you turn by turn instructions and baby you around the airport, than to turn my attention elsewhere for a minute only to find you halfway across the a/p and lost. Communication with ATC is not nearly emphasized enough during training and it leads pilots to being scared of us and trying to avoid us.
The whole point of our job is to baby pilots around. The more experienced you become as a pilot, the less handholding I need to do, and the more your able to handle on your own. The tone of your voice and your pace of speech tells me what I need to know about your experience- so don’t try to sound more capable that you actually are. Just be an adult and ask for some assistance if you need it- like when the lady here ask ATC to go slower. That was good, but she probably should have just said, you know, I might just need some progressive.
Even with intimate familiarization, one can easily go into information overload.
I'm well known to thrive in steep learning curve environments, but even I can get overloaded in a fairly novel for me environment. After handling some of the more complex tasks has been achieved, one lose the ungrounded, confused overload as habits begin to form.
Hopefully, good habits.
My experience taught me, be the first to ask for help when I'm out of my depth and before the need becomes emergent.
Well, that and challenging instructions that are clearly suicidal, clearly outlining why it's a suicidal instruction, s gently as is reasonable. Gotta be polite to the air buss, while not allowing the bastard to kill you. ;)
So, when one has that sensation of floating over themselves due to overload and one is solo, there's only one other source to offload to, that's a radio call away.
The reason that ATC exists is to get aircraft and crew from their travel point to another safely and to as fully facilitate that accordingly.
On occasion, that's to offload an overloaded pilot as much as is possible.
not just student pilots, it happens to airline pilots too just easier with two or more of us up there... and a few thousand hours doing it.
Makes me wonder if more time should be spent doing simple taxiing around an airport during non-busy times, with ATC giving semi-random instructions and the student pilot doing readbacks and trying to follow the taxi route with the instructor present. Honestly have no idea how pilot training goes with that, but it sounds like the girl in this video had very little of any of that kind of practice.
I was taught not to write, I’m starting today
With how many people who can’t navigate out of IKEA, or properly exit roundabouts, you are kinda expecting a little much here...🤣🤣 (not that there’s anything wrong with standards)
Kelsey, you have a very special talent, I love your channel. Your humble honesty is a charm.
Kelsey, been watching you for quite a while, love coming back to these videos for “brush-ups”.
Well, Cate Blanchett doing Katharine Hepburn, anyway :)
As an instructor on a recent instruction flight, I actually had a student solo enter the runway in front of us while on final to land. The tower instructed us to go around, told the student solo to get off the runway and then asked her what happened. She said, "I was trying to line up and wait!" He had told her to hold short, which I verified by listening to the LiveATC recording afterwards.
An interesting facet to this is that my flight school had just the day before sent out a message to all students and instructors about the "line up and wait" instruction, because apparently several student soloists had received that instruction and then taken off. This student who did the runway incursion in front of me probably had that in her head and was determined to do it right, lining up and then waiting without taking off. That message from my flight school is the law of unintended consequences in action...
In the case of abbreviated read-back, I'd likely include the potential conflicts in front of me back. I learned to be *really* clear on comms in the Army. An error could put the artillery strike on my head, rather than on the other guys.
Before I even took my first flight lesson, as a lover of all things aviation, I got an air band scanner and armed with all pertinent charts for at least a year, I think, I spent hours and hours listening to ATC and picturing in my mind everything was happening at airports and aloft. I also decided to sign up with VATSIM to use it with my flight simulator at home and used it all the time. Then, a friend of mine who was a pilot, just like several times before, took me to fly with him in a C172 and asked if I wanted to do the radio calls. I of course immediately accepted and oh, it was just second nature! It was as if I had been doing it for years! No stage panic at all and I had also created my own system to take notes of instructions as Kelsey suggests, so, no sweat. It was a wonderful day. Ever since, I recommend that practice to anyone who wants to take flight lessons.
"...the winds were probably calm" Sir, your modesty is admirable and occasionally cracks me up!
Amazing explanations! Really appreciate you taking the time to explain everything so well! Keep up the great work!
Kelsey you are getting better and better at explaining these ATC calls!
In the Joplin case, I do feel the responsibility primarily rests with the instructor. True, the student was clearly unprepared and I wouldn’t have gone if I were her. I mean, how could someone be sent out to solo without even knowing how to taxi around her home airport is beyond me.
But like you said, she didn’t know what she didn’t know, and even if she did, she’s probably so young that she didn’t know to decline when the instructor sent her out. Also, at the end of the day, she’s flying on the instructor’s license. I would have a lot of reservations letting a student like that go do her solo but I’m just a low time private pilot so what do I know. 🤷🏻♀️😂
Are you the girl
She was set up for failure, but she had quite the self entitled attitude as well. I would be embarrassed if I was one of her parents just based on her attitude.
@@behindthen0thing525 no her English is a lot better than mine. 😄
@@VictoryAviation Agreed. I didn’t want to jump on the “you didn’t ask” part but definitely raised an eyebrow when I heard that. The controller put up with a lot and honestly was very nice about it. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d just send her back to the ramp at a busier airport and ask for her instructor to call in for a chat.
She seems to be talking like Paris Hilton.
I did my first solo in a Cessna 172 back in the mid 80's at Sebring Airport in Florida. I completed it after only 4 and a half hours of instruction. I was on a complete high afterwards. I thought I was destined to be a pilot flying 747's, or even be the next Maverick flying the Tomcat (Top Gun was the big movie at the time). Didn't quite work out. I built up enough hours to obtain my PPL but never got it. Was too easily flustered, amongst other things during my first solo cross country I somehow managed to land at the wrong airport! I just never trusted or had faith in myself, lacked maturity and didn't have the smarts to proceed as things got more difficult. Still love all things aviation though. I now drive a truck, lol.
I'd bet if you solo'd 2 years older you'd have been alright.
@@charlotteinnocent8752 Maybe. I think I could have possibly obtained my PPL but not much beyond that. I look at the stuff pilots have to grasp and be comfortable with, for example, instrument flying, and I reckon it would be well beyond my limits. Now I'm older I would love to get into flying microlights just for the fun element and the simplicity, maybe it's something I'll pursue when the pandemic is over.
@@robbflynn4325 You could always have stuck with a VFR license! But you should give it a go, you can't say for certain you couldn't handle it!
@@charlotteinnocent8752 Thanks but too old now but as I saw flying a microlight may be something I look into, there is a microlight airport pretty close to where I live!
@Cindy Tartt aw thanks, yes it can be somewhat of a disappointment not to achieve something you set your heart on, but you just have to move on and stay positive!
I really enjoy these video's. Subscribed. Also, great advice at 16:08. Kelsey is very likable, love his demeanor and he gives great advice for new pilots. I'm not a pilot, but from my perspective, I wouldn't be nearly as nervous and afraid of the actual flying, but having to deal with ATC and the hustle and bustle of busy airports would absolutely, positively, terrify me. That's crazy to think of, and I've never actually done either...but it sure seems that I'd be a lot more nervous while the plane was on the ground at a busy airport than I would flying it. There is just so much going on in such a congested area, it sounds overwhelming.
Thank you for these videos. I am a severely nervous flying passenger, but I have to fly for work. And I LOVE my job. I must have flown at least 150 times and still get so anxious (although better than I was, Ive stopped dying a 1000 deaths every time the engine noise changes) I do find watching your videos is helping me a lot. So THANK YOU a bazillion times
happy to help do my little part!!
I truly feel for the student pilot. She had no business soloing so unprepared. Instructor where are you?? Hats off to ATC! She was lucky! That must have been awful for her.
I agree. I'm guessing her instructor did most of the radio communications for her, instead of letting her get comfortable interacting with ATC. That's fine very early on in training, but ATC communication proficiency is part of piloting and should be considered by the instructor prior to letting a student solo just as much as the student's ability to consistently control the airplane. Seems to me, she also wasn't taught to use a kneeboard and write down the taxi instructions in order to read them back correctly and to have something to look at during the taxi to help her remember which taxiways to stay on.
Ehh it’s not so bad
yeah this sounds like it was very stressful and she got too flustered to deal with everything she needed for success. the instructor should have been more thorough.
It's possible that she was quite competent on the radio when she had her instructor and only made mistakes because of the added stress. Sometimes people just act dumb when they're nervous and it doesn't mean they are incompetent.
It's like when you spend a whole week preparing a presentation for school and when you stand up in front of class you forget how to speak. Obviously you know how to speak, but sometimes your brain doesn't do what you want it to.
I am forever indebted to the ATC crew at Teterboro back in 1970. I was an 18 yrold student pilot with 4 solos under my belt, still nervous as hell, on final approach when ATC told me to check my airspeed. I pushed the aircraft's nose down just as the stall warning went off. Fortunately, I completed the landing with no problem. With my heart in my throat, I was able to thank the folks in the tower.
Congratulations. Training @ Teterboro is like taking driving lessons in Manhattan. Teterboro is complicated since its runway is almost an extension of Newark's N/S runway.
Great advice about listening in on ATC to learn how to effectively communicate on the radio. This is exactly what my FI told me to do before my solo. Although, my solo was in 1992. There were no apps to download. I had to borrow a handheld receiver to listen in on Portland (PDX) tower and ground.
So this explains why my father liked to listen to the tower around the house. Good memories. Love your channel!
Actually I think this controller showed extreme patience and consideration for the learner pilot, who should be far more confident on the correct radio comms - definitely an area to improve on for both the learner and the flight school / instructor.
Well to be fair she did say she was doing her solo then the dolt in the tower acted like he didn't know that after her telling him she's doing her solo.
@@Reaperdeathpunch: I thought while she was in contact with the ground controller, he figured out she was a student doing a solo by her bad comms. Once she switched frequency to ATC, she continued with her bad comms, but ATC didn't realize she was doing her first solo with 3 takeoffs and 3 landings. She should've stated her solo status and intentions, rather than let ATC figure it out, because once she gets the runway and then takes off, the risks become far greater for everyone on the ground and in the air.
I completely agree.
“We don’t become super snipers once the turbulence hits” 😂
You are just sooo good. I just love watching your videos. I don’t fly…just watching and enjoying.
Thank you for how informative you are it helps us understand what we don't know
Was flying out of San Francisco in a cyclone while pregnant. I must have filled 6 plus sick bags; people were handing them to my hubby. I was fine once we got past the Sierras. It was embarrassing but the flight crew were soooo nice and everyone was sympathetic.
Pregnancy is a statutory defence to being human.
Do you mean hurricane? We don't have cyclones at SFO.
Or hurricanes really...
You mean there was turbulence, yeah?
Why was there a dire need to fly when pregnant?
@@Crossword131 a supercell thunderstorm is a type of cyclone (mesocyclone)
I had my PPL and had always prided myself on trying to always sound professional and it really worked. When I started my IFR training however, the first cross country I was going to do with my CFII, I was immediately humble copying and reading back my clearance. I was lost immediately and my CFII had to take over. I always monitored ATC broadcasts from home and within a few flights, I was back with my professional attitude and “pilot” voice. Thanks for this one Kelsey. Love the channel
Two year old video and yet it speaks volumes. Pilots and the ATC working together is so important. As you mentioned its a team. Yes it might be a short period of time but its so important to work together.
Dude, your description of throwing up in an airplane bathroom and men not being snipers had me laughing out loud, literally.
I never heard that term “Super sniper” to identify someone who absolutely nails the toilet bowl every time and in any condition. Absolutely loving it. You crack me up, Kelsey! Loving it. Keep up the great work!!!
I've watched a lot of your videos, and I gotta say, after this one, I subscribed. The fact that you look at the situation from so many angles, and the fact that you're understanding and compassionate really speaks volumes on your character. Keep the blue side up
BDL is a good one to listen to in the morning! Love the videos!
"We got a guy throwing up in the bathroom" - funniest video so far. Will be hard to beat :D.
This past week, I flew on a 737-Max 8 from Honolulu to Lihue (Kauai). I was sitting in the front of the plane for the relatively short flight. However, I heard a flight attendant hurry to the front in shock. She began telling the other flight attendants about how someone puked all over EVERYTHING in a rear restroom -- including the floor, walls, sink and toilet. She was completely grossed out (and almost horrified) by it. A male flight attendant then closed his eyes and said that he would take care of it. I really felt for those flight attendants.
Being a short flight, I wouldn't be surprised if he just sprayed everything with baking soda and cat litter and left it for ground crews to clean up the rest when you landed.
And unlike the restroom at the supermarket, you cant just spool a hose into a plane bathroom blast untold horrors into the floor drains.
Unpleasant as it may be, it's part of the job. Sounds like the male FA figured that out already. Any customer care job, especially in health care, has it's unpleasant side. Perfect examples are nurses, hospital orderlies and the like, who have to deal with human sick and waste all the time. If you don't have the stomach for it, you won't last long in the job.
That was why I became an air traffic controller, as a student pilot I was afraid to go to a tower controlled airport. I couldn’t understand them, then I became one, no problem now. That might be a bit extreme, lol.
Mr. Kelsey Hughes,, you have been doing an excellent job educating people about aviation and I love your videos. God bless you and yours.
I was very apprehensive about having good phraseology. I did exactly that -- When I was a student pilot, I used my scanner to listen to the local airport and it really helped.
For my first solo here in Oz back in the 1980's, we only had to do the one take-off and landing I think. And we had to include "first solo" in our radio call to the Tower as a heads-up to ATC. I remember the feeling, a simultaneous mix of terror and exhilaration - quite unique. And the relief of getting it back on the ground in one piece.
I love your recommendations for how to improve her confidence & skills, as well as ATC’s role in improving the team dynamics. Snarkiness never works. You break it down so concisely. Love your videos!
Oh my gosh,, Kelsy, you are so dang funny and you just have brighten up my day. Thank you man.
I just love your down-to-earthness Kelsey. You would've done well as my instructor. Keep up your good work (all the way from Swaziland, Africa)
Thanks for the pep talk about feeling like an idiot. It is one of the things I'm very anxious about before I start my training. Will update you on the level of stupid I feel as I go along 🤣😳
I love this video. It reminds me of when I was at 20 hours and soloing for the first time. I did not tell ATC I was a student on solo. I was at an airport that I was familiar with and they were familiar with me. I had an excellent flight instructor. In fact when I soloed he was up in the tower watching me. Each time I would land the tower would congratulate me on a good Landing. We had good communications. On one of my short lengths I went to an airport and I was too low and ATC asked me my altitude and then politely gave me the correct pattern altitude. A pleasant exchange and a lesson learned. Thank you for another excellent video!
Thank you for explaining the entire process. It makes it really cool!
Another excellent video. Professional and very informative
Thank you for the video! i love listening to ATC and pilots talk. it’s so interesting and also educational. i love your channel!
"Listen to Katherine Hepburn."
*shows actress playing Katherine Hepburn*
😄 I was so thrown off for a second.
Live ATC combined with the airport diagram and flight radar is gold for training. Either starting private or just getting used to an airport.
So awesome you also share your rookie mistakes. Aus non pilots or student pilots go in thinking we have to be flawless and are not to make mistakes. Thanks for this.
Hey Kelsey! I just wanted to drop a line here and say thanks for thr great content. I'm a medical lab scientist, so aviation is about as far out from my professional knowledge as it gets. It's really fun and rewarding to watch a pilot talk about the ins and outs of aviation. I've learned so much since I started watching. Keep it up!
The training requirements for student pilots is not common knowledge at all for controller. I know them because I took some flight training, but I had no idea about the 3 takeoffs and landings before that point.
Art teacher so I win on the “why the hell are you here” thing haha but it’s fascinating!
If you love aviation videos I bet you’ll be a pilot some day. If you think listening is fun, just try soaring!
Just soloed on Friday -- luckily I had calm winds at my home airport. And you're right, biggest confidence boost ever!!!!!
Congratulations!
@@rezerder466 Thank you!!!!!! I am still over the moon, even 2 days later, hahaha.
@@DisneyDancer1990 well deserved!! Good luck and stay safe!!
Awesome!
Well done dude! If you thought solo was good - wait until your first solo land away! That's the day you become a pilot, IMHO! Parking up a plane, at another airport and going for a coffee - can't beat it
I just love the elements of humor to real situations. I'd totally love to have a beer with you.
EXCELLENT as usual. You give all of us land Lubbers much confidence when flying. Thank you for a great explanation of a Mayday Minimum Fuel
Situation.
The pilot booking desk usually broadcasts the radio. I'm almost positive that every instructor hanging out at the front desk heard everything.
I would hope that most instructors would be listening to their student's first solo.
If the instructor had a transmitter they could have done the radio for her and just left her to fly 😄 I wonder if ATC has VDF and would notice the transmission coming from the wrong direction!
@@jimknapp8731 instructor wasn’t there.
@@CaptainKirkW Understand, yet that doesn't mean he / she couldn't monitor knowing student's plan to solo.
@@jimknapp8731 very difficult if the instructor isn’t even at the airport.
Hey Kelsey, thanks for doing all this (the whole channel thing). I just discovered it not long ago and it brings some of the flying world to me. Unfortunately, I'll probably never be able to fly a plane myself, but this (plus the Sim games) are the closest I can get, so keep it up! :)
Cheers!
Hi Kelsey! I really love your videos - this one in particular is making me both cringe and laugh over the memories of my days as a student pilot learning how to fly at…of all places…busy BFI (Boeing Field) in Seattle. The sheer terror of wandering above the correct traffic pattern altitudes with SeaTac airspace directly above…. Getting yelled at by the controller after “almost” causing a FedEx 747 Heavy to have to go around because I couldn’t get off the runway fast enough…. Sheer terror, that I can laugh about now.
I love that “she doesn’t know what she doesn’t know”!
Absolutely spot on!!