As a controller of 22 years two things: this situations was used as recurrent training for controllers. Also, I love it when pilots question my instructions. No controller is perfect, it’s a team effort. It makes me rethink what I am doing. Any controller that is annoyed by being questioned has no business being a controller.
Hey sorry if this is asking a lot, but I just applied to be an ATC trainee. I have no experience or credentials pertaining to ATC so I probably won’t even be considered. Is there anything I can do to make myself stand out if an opportunity arises to apply again? It just seems like an amazingly rewarding career!
@@VegasMilgauss I didn’t take it that he wasn’t in control, but that the pilot was seeking clarification. The pilot is thousands of feet in the air for goodness sake. I’d want to be sure, and Haas is showing that ego has no place in the control tower or in the cockpit.
There is no way I could be a controller. I have a extreme lack of the ability to mentally keep track of all the various things going on at once. I am for sure a hyper focused on a single task type of person. I can do 1 thing very well or many things very badly.
I’m ATC and this is beyond PAINFUL… she’s messing up her turns left/right and yelling at the pilot asking what they’re doing when it’s her f’ing it all up. An embarrassment to controllers
@@BitcoinWillFixEverything aAnd you sound like a missogynist. Take a look at thousands other videos with similar discussions, most of the ATCs are men. But hey, why shouldn't you spread your frustration and your toxic masculinity around?!
@@potocatepetl oi, no one gives a fuck about gender. Watch any video on male controllers being cunts and you'll see controllers in the comments criticizing them as well. Literally gender doesn't fucking matter in this situation, that controller fucked up, end of story
Wow! This was probably the most incompetent controller I have ever heard. As a pilot, I love ATC and am always grateful and thankful for their help. I’ve never heard such incompetence. 26 years as a military pilot. Now 15 years later working on an instrument rating. Her directions were verging on breaching safety in her sector. Flown in and out of LA. Always had great ATC controllers.
Thankfully. Even a meth motel is over $100 a night in LA. Hotel chains all over would tack on another $70 per room to give them themes or embellishments
My mom sometimes tells a flight story about when she was returning to Ottawa from a conference in Nova Scotia. She and a friend from university just chilling while the plane was coming in for a landing. Suddenly everyone felt the plane pull up HARD and almost at the same time the pilot came on the radio and screamed "IT'S THOSE GODDAMN AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS!!!" Everyone was confused but the friend said that there another plane waiting to take off on the runway they were gonna land on. The friend was sitting by the window. This was in the eighties.
OMG, I went through that exact same scenario about 1987 but mine was landing in Orlando from Dulles. I was about 15 years old and have always been a nervous flyer. I still remember everything! Even that it was in an Eastern Airlines L1011 airplane, my mom and I still talk about it, we were flying together and still had to fly from Orlando to Puerto Rico 😭
Same thing happened to me in the 80’s. My parents and I were landing in St Louis Missouri for a layover. All was normal as we were coming down to earth when all of a sudden we went straight back up at a high rate of speed burying my 8 year old body harshly back against the seat. Apparently we were landing on a runway that a plane was also taking off on and who knows how close we came to death that day.
No shit. These guys first language wasn't English. Hey. I'm a guest in your country. I'll go wherever u tell me to. I'd like to hear how a usa citizen pilot would have handled this.
There was probably more than one person in the plane talking to the ATC…the poor guys who don’t speak English as a first language were probably like “here, you talk to her, see if she makes sense to you!”. Jeez, I feel bad for them!
She nearly sent the BR B77W into the San Gabriel Mountains (the path she had ordered for the BR B77W had beforehand caused separation issues with an AC B788 departing a minute later). That's why she lost her job. The summit of the San Gabriel Mountains is 5800 feet, not including the transmission towers for all of the LA market TV and radio stations (which transmit from either Mount Wilson or Mount Harvard).
"Let me talk to your supervisor, NOW!!" I have never heard a pilot request this in my flying career, and I had never thought about it before, but while listening to this video it is what I eventually would have wanted to request! It had to be even much more frustrating for a crew where English is their second language.
Useless escalation and risking bigger confusement on the frequency. Filing report is the right way to use that situation to make things better and safer
As a controller, I am embarrassed by this controller. She clearly said the wrong thing and then tried to blame the pilot for complying. I hope the pilot filed a report.
@@toddbellows5282 lmfao oh shut up. There are plenty of skilled female and/or black controllers. Blaming an individual's ineptitude on something like that, you should be ashamed of yourself.
@@NLTops Nobody said there weren't. But when you have laws and agendas that push for quotas of certain demographics to be hired, less-than-stellar individuals can be given a pass to meet those targets. We saw it in the military often. That doesn't change the fact that the best soldier I ever knew was black, but it also doesn't change the fact that one of the worst soldiers I ever knew was allowed to stay in despite having an attitude and incidents that had gotten non-black/non-female people kicked out on multiple occasions in the two years previous.
@@USN1985dos But that doesn't apply here. The air traffic controller was fired due to this incident. Even in your example it shows that diversity itself isn't the problem. The problem is that the incompetent soldier wasn't fired. In other words, "special treatment". Which of course flies in the face of equality as much as exclusion does. But the opposite is also damaging, there's no need for racism or sexism in the military (or society as a whole). It serves no productive purpose. Society should be a meritocracy. That way it makes better use of the human potential of its population and people have as broad as possible a range of fields to find their talents.
I think Kelsey gave us the key to this kerfuffle early on, when he said that 90% of departures are to the west. The controller was probably operating from habit when she told EVA to turn LEFT heading 180. That's what she would normally tell people who took off to the west. Not saying she didn't know left from right, or east from west. But sometimes the part of our brain that controls our mouth just says what it's used to saying.
Yeah muscle memory takes over sometimes. I've had it happen when i worked as a cook, if a burger said "No Grilled Onions" I would read it and muscle memory would make me reach for grilled onions and place it on the cheese because its the standard way to make the burger. Then I would have to fix that mistake.
@@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307 Uhh, yikes? Maybe don't be a racist/sexist? Have you considered that them being bad at their job has nothing to do with being black and/or a woman?
As a retired controller, that Socal controller is an embarrassment. Sounds like a rookie. If she was a trainee, the trainer should have stepped in and corrected the situation.
I would be so frustrated as a pilot having to listen to her. They sounded increasingly stressed, too. Being an ATC sounds tough - you can't ever really have an off day - but in this situation, it could cause some pretty bad results.
I just imagine most passengers in that EVA flight thinking the pilot is shit after tuning left, right, then left and right again while climbing hard and stop climbing
That has to be very scary as a pilot, knowing you are relying on someone else to keep you alive, and that someone is obviously having an issue keeping things clear.
It’s like the old saying: what links pilots maintenance and atc? Pilot screws up pilot dies. Maintenance screws up pilot dies, atc screws up pilot dies
I was training and ATC (who was also training someone) allowed a plane on the runway while I was coming in for a landing. My instructor caught it, we did a go around, other plane pulled off the runway, and I learned to be cautious
Thanks for explaining the meaning of "heavy"! Have taken many business and personal flights all over the world in the past, and sometimes listened in to pilot communication with the ATC before landing. Always wondered what "heavy" meant. Now I understand and many other things you explain so well in all your videos. Thanks much for sharing!
My thoughts exactly! Before this it always left me with the mental image of a struggling plane with thought bubble saying “Mom says Im just big-boned..”. Im weird, I know :)
AS a retired controller, this was a very embarrassing thing to see. This controller was very scary. Controllers typically know very well left from right!
It sounded to me like she was under pressure and having trouble with orientation. It was like she was used to the regular west departure where South is a left turn and didn't adapt to the plane leaving in the opposite direction making South a right turn. I wonder if an airprox got filed that might have more information. Edit: I had a look and there was no airprox filed but there is an NTSB CFIT report OPS17IA010 for the incident. EVA015 got really close to Mount Wilson (0.3 miles at 0 ft above the mountain top.) The report isn't complimentary about the controller's incident recovery technique. The Controller was fully qualified for the position for 2 years 8 months and was an on-the-job training instructor (OJTI) 😱
@@blackwidow8412 I’ve seen controllers still in upgrade training get aircraft saves and I’ve seen 10+year controllers point planes at planes. Every time you plug in to control is different, everyone has goofs. There are so many factors that could play into her loss of situational awareness. However, I will say a controller worth their salt will stop saying “left/right” and say “fly heading XXX” after getting it wrong more than once.
@@bretisenhoff2444 That sounds pretty plausible! I think that anyone, even the most experienced person can get things confused if enough conditions align. That's why what Kelsey says is really important. Everyone should always try to be aware in case the other person mixes things up. Like when you're driving a car and you're doing everything right, but the lights malfunction, then you need to be aware of that and not just continue going, because that might cause an accident or even someone to die.
Am a ATC and listening to the LAX EVA departure made me cringe... several times. The controller phraseology and professionalism was poor. Agree with Kelsey 100%.
perhaps you can say "if there is a city of around 200 thousand in front of you, go to 8 thousand" (and the mountain beyond it is around 12 thousand feet).
@@sailaab Learned something new again. I know it makes sense, just didn't expect North Korea to have a functioning Airport including English speaking controllers
@@boooster101 He could be pulling our leg: "UA-cam is blocked in North Korea because of the country's laws regarding the Internet and its accessibility. It has been fully blocked since April 2016, and the North Korean government has warned that anyone who tries to access it is subject to punishment."
Oh Kelsey, thanx soo much for all your great aviation education! Being a retired semi truck driver, and having no words for how terrified I have always been of flying, I feel many similarities in our jobs, such as one moments decision being life or death, & seeing you alone in a hotel room, many miles from home & family. Please stay safe, & continue to have fun!!
She’s probably never worked departure when the winds were from the east prior to this. So day after day she has planes taking off to the west, needing to turn, and to go south they turn left. But today she had a plane going the opposite direction, needing to turn south, and told them to turn left out of habit. She didn’t even realize her mistake and then became flustered as cluck when she saw the plane turning left when she probably thought she told them to turn right. Instead of rationally thinking about the issue, she stayed in “autopilot” with the habit of planes going west for take off and just reacted and reacted and reacted without ever actually controlling the situation in her mind.
Back in the early 90's, I had started to take college courses to prepare me to apply for ATC work. I did a co-op placement at my airport, and when I realized (saw in real life) how they juggle planes in the air and didn't kill them all, made me realize that I cannot think in the 3D way they need to be able to, do the work. So hats off to the controllers, it is a very difficult job.
My dad worked as a cargo agent when the PATCO strike happened. I was just 13, but he kept talking about how the controllers were upset about conditions that impacted safety, like overwork. Made sense me. I was astonished later when I later heard all the "they were selfish" nonsense. Jobs that require focus to maintain safety have to give workers proper working conditions. I've always thought that I'd last 10 minutes because my mind would drift to "do I need to buy milk?"
@@animula6908 I think that I would fare better as a passenger helping to land a plane than last 10 minutes as an ATC. I have total respect for the high-stress job that ATCs do.
@@Tracymmo Exactly. You hear it often how they're understaffed + fatigued. When they went on strike for better + safer conditions in 1981, President Reagan fired 11,345 workers. It was against union rules for ATC / government workers to strike. If their union can't or won't help them improve ATC conditions, who can? Can anyone blame them for going to extremes when they felt they were not being taken seriously + were fatigued + it was compromising safety?
"They would be in trouble, but I would be dead." Words to live by. I notice that all the best pilots seem to have an avoidance philosophy, as opposed to a blame philosophy. Even when looking at NTSB Final Reports, aviation doesn't look to assign blame, but to repair any procedural faults. At the end of the day, people will make mistakes, and you can't fix that. Love your channel. Only recently found it, but I've seen you on other channels doing the "Real Pilot vs. Hollywood" or whatever. Thanks for educating and entertaining!
10:08 what you didn't mention is that this rule (probably like many other rules) was written in blood - a mid-air collision actually happened because a pilot listened to the ATC instead of the TCAS, and everybody died.
Russian pilots were trained to follow ATC instruction over the TCAS, the DHL pilot acted on TCAS. Youre right though everyone died, including the controller 1 year later at the hands of one of the dead children's father who lost his son and wife. As a result of this tragedy, the rule now is TCAS has priority
@@TheAngmarwitch that father lost his wife, son, & daughter. Then he went out to help with the search for bodies & he found his daughter & she was the only one who was in one piece basically.
@@abimbolaaku2709 It's not a fancy one, but it's a nice one. Nice big fluffy king or queen size bed. You must just be a spoiled brat and have never seen a slummy hotel room *LOL CRYFACE EMOJI
@@abimbolaaku2709 man stop embarrassing your self by boasting about being in better hotel rooms. It is a nice hotel room for 99,9% people on the Earth.
Ricko From an ex ATC all you said was spot on. I was taught to say "right I say again right" whenever you needed an aircraft to turn the long way around, as it was something the pilot was not expecting. Great video.
I love how you keep your job and your UA-cam connected YET disconnected at the same time. You talk about your job and give awesome details, but you never actually bring a camera into a plane or an airport, rather you look up reference photos or videos. It shows your focused on your job when you’re needed to, especially when lives are on the line
In Aussie ATC, the phraseology we use for a long way around turn is “Turn left, I say again, left, 180...”, so that aircrew know we understand we’re sending you the long way and that is indeed the way we need you to go.
Europe is the same, ATC in training here, if we want the plane to turn the long way round you always have to say I say again, so that the pilot is aware that you didn't just confuse the sides of the world...this dumbass controller on the other hand needs her licence pulled ASAP, she's gonna kill someone.
Presumably you would do that to to gain more altitude before reaching the requested heading... ie You would be lower as you exited the turn if you were to turn right 180° (from a 090° heading) vs a left tun to 180°... Which could be useful for traffic separation🤔 Obviously mountains notwithstanding...
It sounds like the real heroes here are the engineers and system developers who have worked out these aircraft and systems of redundancy over the past few decades!
If you watch the show Air Disasters it goes into detail about crashes & how/why it led to such systems. Its always sad to hear about death but at least those lives helped save so many more.
As a flight attendant, can’t imagine what these non-American EVA pilots were thinking with these scary instructions, and, I assume, the F/A’s and passengers were getting whiplash.
She not only misguided them but she also would say south and north in the same breath as she corrected herself. She got it backwards constantly. I would’ve asked for another controller after the second fuck up. Trust was gone by then
@@brianbeattie3305 maby so but if they are gonna have an attitude with me for no reason then I'd go to a different airport and file a report with the FAA
"Ok you're clear for take off" "Err we're in the sky" "Oh ok land to your left" "That's the Ocean" "Please brake, turn right 750 degrees no wait backwards to my right"
Clearly, absolutely, totally the very best of three or four UA-cam aviation channels! Your shows are lively, often captivating, and always educational. I enjoy your down-to-earth, non-presumptious attitude and tell-it-like-it-is narratives. You win my vote as the most humble and honest pilot on UA-cam. I'd like to see and learn more about ATC procedures, and rules that apply to the controllers. I know pilots must follow the rules on-air and in-air with the mic and what's said. What rules apply to the controllers when they key the mic? More more more! Thank you.
Had to listen to a lot of medical stuff over the air couple of decades ago then write it down allowing zero mistakes. And even i couldn't sort this out in my head. You're not alone.
I once knew a UPS pilot that had full engine failure on approach to the Louisville hub after extending the gear. “Unflappable Jim“ (as I remember him) just calmly glided down a heavy without much fanfare or chagrin to the runway like butter, afterwards the maintenance crew found that the fuel delivery system was not working properly to the engines. Textbook stuff. Guy is a total legend in my book.
Hi Kelsey. After watching 4-5 of your videos and listening to your commentary, I come to the conclusion that you did not become a 747 pilot by accident. You process problems with a high degree of consideration and common sense and you are a bad ass communicator. It does not surprise me that people want to fly with you.
Thats a really kind thing for you to say Patrick thank you, next week you will see some of the less kind things that people say to me, but I think they are pretty funny anyway! Thanks for watching!
He says he's "not that smart," but he continues to show us otherwise! I think he was born to be an aviator + and instructor. He has plethora of common sense + exceptional communication skills.
You very much have a gift providing explanations that are so clear and easy for the average person to understand. As a pilot I think the terms are so common to you that it would be easy to not see that others may not know what "that" is. I love your mindset of keeping things simple (in your flying and your explanations). I believe this makes you a much safer pilot (and better teacher)....and keeps things interesting for average viewers. I have no aviation background but have always wanted to know what they are talking about and how it works.
I think Kelsey could have actually used the term 'wake turbulence'. Even those of us who are non-pilots have a minimal amount of general knowledge (at least in the UK).
Only time my instructor took the 152 away from me, was while getting my night quals, shooting a couple of touch in goes at 3 am in DTW. It might have been helpful to get a wake turbulence call from the controller, not being able to see type of aircraft was taking off, while I was on final. Although, my instructor was on the radio calling inbound from Willow Run, while I was still climbing out.
You know she actually wanted to give directions like: "Turn right at the big cloud, then left around that flock of birds. If you see mountains you've gone too far"
This is the most positive, most funny, and most _conscious_ aviation channel I've come across. You are just as aware of your audience as you are of your cockpit and aircraft, and for that, you are deeply respected by me and countless others. It's like a combination of Mentour Pilot and Pilot Debrief, but much more self-aware.
16:40 "That's not the way I like to look at things, this kind of victim mentality" Kelsey, you just gained a *lot* of brownie points from me. I love that you look at it as "what can I do to make it better" rather than "whose fault is it".
@Brad James Then have fun arguing about "he said, she said" while planes are crashing. Also, why are you even watching this video if you think Kelsey's "incompetent"? And where's your pilot's license since you apparently know more than him?
@Brad James Get a motorcycle. THEN you can tell me ALL about how important it is "who's at fault" or "who had right of way" when your broke all to hell in a ditch somewhere or too crippled up to wipe your own ass. "Get good quick, kid... or get DEAD quicker." ;o)
That's the positive mind set of a winner, + of a caring pilot who genuinely wants improvement + safety at the forefront in the industry. He takes immediate action to do it. If there were more pilots like Kelsey + Sully + Jeff Skiles, there'd be fewer accidents + better + always cooperative attitudes during CRM. I bet there is a best selling aviation book by Kelsey in the future.
Afterwards you can assign blame. In the moment you have to figure out what you can do. I swear I see drivers, pedestrians who seem to be going with the mentality that since they technically have the right of way they can do everything possible to put their own, and possibly my own, life in danger.
Kelsey - you have a wonderful ability to generate smiles around the world & regardless of mood! And that's in addition to all the knowledge you give away to the rest of us about one of the most intriguing and rewarding professions in the world: being a pilot. ON TOP OF THE FACT YOU FLY A PLANE WE ALL LOVE! (747) Anyway thanks for all your hard work! It means a lot!
As a former RAPCON Air Traffic Controller these two examples are perfect ! Whenever someone asks me what I did for a living and I said ATC … they’re like ooooo stressful , my answer is : if you can tie your shoe you can do ATC , it’s a common sense job . I loved it and I was pretty good at it . ( I’m gonna brag now , I did receive a save award 😉) I miss it . Thank you for sharing this . I’m new to your channel and occasionally I need a healthy distraction. God bless 🇺🇸😎
As a retired controller with 37 years under his belt (4 years USAF), I have to respectfully disagree with you! Not everybody that can tie their shoe can separate airplanes. The wash out rate for Air Traffic school in 1987 was greater than 50%.
Newbie to the channel, just discovered it. Having worked emergency services at a busy airport for 5 years, incorporating airfield operations, this is super interesting. Also, you seem extremely humble and friendly so it makes watching even more pleasurable. 👍
Hey Kelsey, I just flew a plane for the first time and you inspired me to start flight school thanks for inspiring me and making me want to have the best job in the world and ignore people who way I cant
Hey Narcoleptic Goat, Congrats on beginning your persuit to fly! Never ever give up. Wishing you all the best with youur studies and lessons. Read everything you can get your hands on!
Could you please remember to find this thread when you get hired as a commercial pilot? We need to know, I am not sure I would want to fly on a plane with a narcoleptic pilot. 🤣
I am not a pilot but enjoy this channel for it's great stories. This episode brings to mind a flight we took in a Piper Warrior from a little private field South of Savanna, Illinois into Midway in Chicago. Coming into Midway, our pilot friend noticed some DC-10's off in the distance doing touch and go landings (practice?). The ATC told us to make sure to do something once we got all stopped (or something like that). Our pilot friend quickly responded, "I'm still on my final approach." To this the atc responded, "turn right immediately to yadda yadda yadda". Boy, we cranked around and I could see the windows of that big airliner as he passed by on our left. It's a miracle we didn't get blasted by turbulence but we obviously made a safe landing eventually and don't remember us doing anything special other than get in the car and drive to get a real thick Chicago style pizza. Our friend told us it was probably one of those DC-10's we saw earlier. It was nighttime. Seems we got pretty lucky.
You don't know how hard I'm laughing at this line " If the controller vectors you into a mountain, they are in trouble and you're dead" 😂 Following the air traffic controller till your last breath. 😂 Love your videos Kelsey.
my sides hurt from laughing so hard listening to these poor pilots frantically trying to comply with the controller's aggressive and irreconcilable instructions. The fact that these commands are being barked so haphazardly at 200 tons of fuel and machinery barreling through the sky at 200mph is sobering.
As an ATCO, i agree with this pilot. Most of times the pilots help us. If they ask something that i've already cleared him to do I immediately check what i've done to see if something is wrong. We also help them if they say/request something wrong :)
The crack about billygoats is from an old "Far Side" cartoon. The caption is actually, "Say...what's a mountain goat doing way up here in a cloud bank?". If you do an image search with that line, you'll see it. The funniest part (to me) is that he has time to ask.
The other funny Gary Larson aviation cartoon was two pilots in the cockpit, and passengers with wide eyes of terror seen through the airplane’s windows. The caption was “OH MY GOD! We have a fire in the #2 engine!!! Oh wait, that’s just the intercom light”.
Did you hear about the flight where the captain comes on the intercom and says “ Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain. Thank you …..blah, blah, … temp in Denver will be .. Blah, blah, blah…. etc,.. etc….” Then the mic key froze when the captain was done with the announcement. Captain sits back, and inadvertently over the intercom says …. “All I need now is a good cup of coffee and a great ‘BJ’. Female flght attendant rushes up to the cockpit to let the captan know his mic is still keyed, and a loud voice coming from the back of the plane says “Don’t forget the coffee!”
@@matsv201 Do you mean 'retirement'? A pension is collected upon retirement. You can still work and collect a pension. Always use a monolingual dictionary if you're unsure or search for the 'difference between' on Google. You wouldn't like it if we misused an engineering term, right? 😉
Yeah for following her instructions. It reminds me of an anti-drug ad from when I was a kid. A dad is yelling at his son after catching him doing drugs. The kid yells "I learned it by watching YOU!"
Captain Sum Ting Wong “ ice berg straight ahead !” EVA what are you doing ? It’s Christmas I’m in San Diego you’re at LAX. I ain’t got no time for this
Can we appreciate how calm the eva pilot was? With that shitty instructions I would’ve been yelling at her to decide whether its left or right🤦🏼♀️ she is like ielts listening describing a map , trying to be as confusing as possible 😤
I feel like I'd be pretty mad at that controller if I was that pilot, the way that she had a rude tone of voice when she literally made the mistake herself would piss me off. Great pilot!
I'm a former ATC (IFR at busy airports) and now commercial pilot - On the first occurrence, this should have been picked up by her sector supervisor at its early stage and maybe taken out of the seat. Its a tough job with very little margin for error. Thanks for your vids!!
After my 30 years of ATC, I believe it’s safe to assume she would have been promoted to a supervisory position. Supervisor’s were usually the worst controllers. That is a fact.
Holy cow! How is that flight crew maintaining their cool with her? I’d have lost it and gotten all over her for giving crazy and contradictory instructions. She’s endangering their lives and wasting fuel.
Because the radio is a commodity. Everyone needs it, you don't have time to hold a conversation or have personal crap like how you hate something going on over the radio. They are probably talking mad shit in the cockpit though.
I was impressed by the Eva flight crew. Had they lost their cool, the results could have been deadly. In effect, they kept that contoller from freaking out even more!
Kudos to the pilots who dealt with this the best they could, and continued to fly their airplane. Less confusing instructions from ATC than these have caused crashes in the past.
Not a mistake, but one of the most iconic exchanges. Background: most jets can reach somewhere between 40000 and 45000 feet. Plane (P): may I go to 50000 feet? Controller: if you can reach 50000, you can have it. P: OK, descending to 50000. The plane was an SR-71.
As a retired ATC, in 35 years I only ever saw a four digit ground speed readout one time. On initial contact from a SR-71 descending into controlled airspace, 1480 knots through 62000 feet
Sounds to me like she got mixed up thinking they’d taken off flying the “normal” direction so when she first told them to turn left,in her mind, she meant South and away from the mountains, when in reality they were going the opposite way she expected.
I like being able to fly, look, and communicate with atc. Having to look down and read atc would be bad. But for low workload ocean crossing they do have electronic clearance.
Really concerning how often she interrupts and corrects herself, giving the impression that she hardly has any situational awareness. Oh, just as I wrote this you got to the part where you point out the same thing.
Max landing weight? A fully loaded cargo plane with a full load of fuel could be over weight and need to dump fuel, although probably not a priority in an emergency situation when you really need to get the plane on the ground
I always appreciate the controller who doesn't give me shit in that annoyed response when confirming a runway crossing, especially at busy airports (we operate out of Logan a lot). The good ones thank you for it, thus reinforcing that kind of safety redundancy and the attempt at minimizing human error.
That's good to hear, as ATC stress + being overworked is concerning. They are the Gods of sky safety + deserve the utmost of respect. My father always says "Never Assume." Great advice in many aspects if life, but esp. in aviation!
Yep, the last thing you want is to create a culture where someone's unsure of what to do, so they make assumptions about what's meant. Even more so when one of the assumptions could be deadly wrong...
@@fetchstixRHD Yes. That's when they might end up on the show Air Disasters. Rapidly changing weather in small planes can get risky quickly, if pilots aren't proficient in IFR, ie. resulting in spatial disorientation. Yet, they may be certified IFR.
Kelsey, please bring back the hotel view reveal. I love guessing it and I love to see where you are going. Edit: I don't even mind if you go to the same place a lot and it gets repetitive. It just adds a lot to the video.
When I traveled I liked to take pictures OUT the window. My best was hosting a webconference (pre-Zoom) the first Friday in October . . . In Albuquerque facing the Albuquerque "Box"! So I had hot air balloons passing in the background. So please give us a shot looking out the window.
Not sure if this is the case, but in recent videos he's talked about currently flying to deliver medical stuff and vaccines for the pandemic, meaning he's not allowed to share where he's flying from and to. Might be why he's not showing the view out of his hotel, in case that gets him in trouble when people figure out where he is.
As a pilot I bet you are very good at what you do. I was in the Military for over 27 years but had to cut my career short. But, I watch you all the time and I would love to fly with you knowing you have things under control cargo was one of the things I have to do at times based on our mission. So them coming you are great
Super curious - during these pilot/ATC radio conversations are there extended periods of silence that are cut out in editing/post or are these conversations happening as fast as we're hearing them?
what's amazing is that although it might sound like not alot is going on, the controller could be getting his ass kicked at the same time. hard to tell if you're not right there.
"I don't have the balls to do that, personally". It actually takes quite a bit of balls to admit that and give credit to those who do. But really, none of us knows what we are capable of until we are put in that situation.
@@nancyrice7569 Not only do they run into fire, I’m floored with their life-saving medical know-how skills too. They saved my arse after I went unconscious and face-planted on my mom’s driveway, from the worst asthma attack of my life. I was turning blue when they arrived (luckily they were only a few blocks away), and my mother was trying to give me cpr until then. The ambulance is a good 20 minute drive to where I was at, so these firefighters somehow got oxygen into me until the paramedics arrived. I didn’t regain consciousness until I got to the ER. I consider it a damn miracle I didn’t suffer any brain damage from oxygen deprivation. No idea what sort of voodoo magic they all did, but it’s astounding just how big their skillset is, how brave they are, and how much stress and pressure they undergo.
ATC here. Such control habit does not happen overnight. It's been developed over a long time, and THE SUPERVISORS HAVE FAILED TO CHECK IT AND CORRECT IT. But in the US......"affirmative action"......
As a viewer, I was getting confused with what the controller was saying. Damn hats of to the pilots who understood and followed her. Even though as you said she was giving confusing orders.
There are only so many things they ask you to do on a regular basis, so you have a pretty good idea of the kind of things they might ask. And after the ten thousandt time they ask you to do it, it's pretty easy to understand. But yeah, she was pretty confusing...
As a controller of 22 years two things: this situations was used as recurrent training for controllers. Also, I love it when pilots question my instructions. No controller is perfect, it’s a team effort. It makes me rethink what I am doing. Any controller that is annoyed by being questioned has no business being a controller.
Hey sorry if this is asking a lot, but I just applied to be an ATC trainee. I have no experience or credentials pertaining to ATC so I probably won’t even be considered. Is there anything I can do to make myself stand out if an opportunity arises to apply again? It just seems like an amazingly rewarding career!
You’re wrong. A controller must be in charge at all times, the pilot does not know the full situation.
@@VegasMilgauss I didn’t take it that he wasn’t in control, but that the pilot was seeking clarification. The pilot is thousands of feet in the air for goodness sake. I’d want to be sure, and Haas is showing that ego has no place in the control tower or in the cockpit.
She failed in every way.
It wasn't just her incompetence, but her terrible attitude.
The person that hired her should be seriously reevaluated.
There is no way I could be a controller. I have a extreme lack of the ability to mentally keep track of all the various things going on at once. I am for sure a hyper focused on a single task type of person. I can do 1 thing very well or many things very badly.
I’m ATC and this is beyond PAINFUL… she’s messing up her turns left/right and yelling at the pilot asking what they’re doing when it’s her f’ing it all up. An embarrassment to controllers
not an embarrassment, she sounds like a quota hire. It's happening in every industry.
@@BitcoinWillFixEverything aAnd you sound like a missogynist. Take a look at thousands other videos with similar discussions, most of the ATCs are men. But hey, why shouldn't you spread your frustration and your toxic masculinity around?!
@@potocatepetl The fact you think toxic masculinity is a real condition tells me all I need to know about you. Talk about frustration...
@@potocatepetl oi, no one gives a fuck about gender. Watch any video on male controllers being cunts and you'll see controllers in the comments criticizing them as well. Literally gender doesn't fucking matter in this situation, that controller fucked up, end of story
@@potocatepetl Nah he is correct.
Pilot should've given her a number to call.
Lol, and I’m a controller 😆 agreed!
Hahaha good one
Filing a NASA report is pretty much the same thing.
haha !
@@kevindavis8175 ... NASA..???
Wow! This was probably the most incompetent controller I have ever heard. As a pilot, I love ATC and am always grateful and thankful for their help. I’ve never heard such incompetence. 26 years as a military pilot. Now 15 years later working on an instrument rating. Her directions were verging on breaching safety in her sector. Flown in and out of LA. Always had great ATC controllers.
From her voice, I immediately thought "diversity hire."
This channel really hammers home how unremarkable 99% of the world's hotel rooms are
Thankfully. Even a meth motel is over $100 a night in LA. Hotel chains all over would tack on another $70 per room to give them themes or embellishments
In reality its always the same superimposed photo. He is recording while flying hehehehe
He should have a contest, to see who can guess what country he's in, based on his background.
No, that is really his bedroom at home....
The bed in his hotel room is huge. Lots of pillows too.
"What are you doing?" ... "I'm following YOUR inconsistent directions, that's what I'm doing!"
This is one of those time's when you tell the atc to please call a number after you have landed safely 🤣
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
How the tables have turned!
@@reshpeck 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Possible atc deviation
And as they say, you don’t want to have to jot down a number to call…😅
My mom sometimes tells a flight story about when she was returning to Ottawa from a conference in Nova Scotia. She and a friend from university just chilling while the plane was coming in for a landing. Suddenly everyone felt the plane pull up HARD and almost at the same time the pilot came on the radio and screamed "IT'S THOSE GODDAMN AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS!!!" Everyone was confused but the friend said that there another plane waiting to take off on the runway they were gonna land on. The friend was sitting by the window. This was in the eighties.
OMG, I went through that exact same scenario about 1987 but mine was landing in Orlando from Dulles. I was about 15 years old and have always been a nervous flyer. I still remember everything! Even that it was in an Eastern Airlines L1011 airplane, my mom and I still talk about it, we were flying together and still had to fly from Orlando to Puerto Rico 😭
Same thing happened to me in the 80’s. My parents and I were landing in St Louis Missouri for a layover. All was normal as we were coming down to earth when all of a sudden we went straight back up at a high rate of speed burying my 8 year old body harshly back against the seat. Apparently we were landing on a runway that a plane was also taking off on and who knows how close we came to death that day.
The 80s were the Reagan years & he had to fire the striking controllers. Govt employees should NEVER have been allowed to unionize & strike!
“What are you doing?”
“I’m talking to an idiot, apparently.”
Love your comment!!
What is you doin*
Following YOUR instructions.
Haha! Exactly what I would’ve said
if only that would be allowed.
"What are you doing?"
"I'm doing what you told me to do!"
No shit. These guys first language wasn't English. Hey. I'm a guest in your country. I'll go wherever u tell me to. I'd like to hear how a usa citizen pilot would have handled this.
@@JohnnieV I don’t think you understand sarcasm.
@@arthurlejawka6392 sarcasm is very difficult to understand in a different language
She's lucky. I'd have answered "I'm flying an airplane, what the hell are you doing?".
But Mr. Crabs, I’m just doing what you *SAID*
There was probably more than one person in the plane talking to the ATC…the poor guys who don’t speak English as a first language were probably like “here, you talk to her, see if she makes sense to you!”. Jeez, I feel bad for them!
yup I can picture that. “here you talk to her! here bro its your turn to talk to her man!”
Or the pilot was focused on flying the plane.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too!
Probably the FO, Capt then the check captain all trying to make sense of her
She nearly sent the BR B77W into the San Gabriel Mountains (the path she had ordered for the BR B77W had beforehand caused separation issues with an AC B788 departing a minute later). That's why she lost her job. The summit of the San Gabriel Mountains is 5800 feet, not including the transmission towers for all of the LA market TV and radio stations (which transmit from either Mount Wilson or Mount Harvard).
"Let me talk to your supervisor, NOW!!"
I have never heard a pilot request this in my flying career, and I had never thought about it before, but while listening to this video it is what I eventually would have wanted to request!
It had to be even much more frustrating for a crew where English is their second language.
@@DrDeuteron No. It's only a 'karen' ask if it's done out of false entitlement.
@@DrDeuteron not if you’re piloting a plane filled with living people and ATC is belligerent and leading you to potential disaster.
whats the timestamp in the video when he says it? i think i missed it
@@AviationWithAbrar same
Useless escalation and risking bigger confusement on the frequency. Filing report is the right way to use that situation to make things better and safer
Mountains to the left, ocean to the right. Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.
Mountains - much worse than either clowns or jokers.
goddamnit. was gonna post that.
Well played.
@@cremebrulee4759 Unless one of them has Weapons of Mass Destruction and the other Has Oil. ;)
Excellent!
“They’d be in trouble but id be dead”
Solid oof
I would much rather be alive. If I'm dead, I don't care how much trouble they are in. So, yeah.
good burn i forgot what i was goin on abut
Yeah, that's probably the sound it would make as your plane hit that mountain they steered you into
As a controller, I am embarrassed by this controller. She clearly said the wrong thing and then tried to blame the pilot for complying. I hope the pilot filed a report.
Ain't diversity wonderful? God help us.
If that’s your real last name you can say ‘a wiseman once said’ and quote yourself, you have an incredible opportunity
@@toddbellows5282 lmfao oh shut up. There are plenty of skilled female and/or black controllers. Blaming an individual's ineptitude on something like that, you should be ashamed of yourself.
@@NLTops Nobody said there weren't. But when you have laws and agendas that push for quotas of certain demographics to be hired, less-than-stellar individuals can be given a pass to meet those targets. We saw it in the military often. That doesn't change the fact that the best soldier I ever knew was black, but it also doesn't change the fact that one of the worst soldiers I ever knew was allowed to stay in despite having an attitude and incidents that had gotten non-black/non-female people kicked out on multiple occasions in the two years previous.
@@USN1985dos But that doesn't apply here. The air traffic controller was fired due to this incident. Even in your example it shows that diversity itself isn't the problem. The problem is that the incompetent soldier wasn't fired. In other words, "special treatment". Which of course flies in the face of equality as much as exclusion does. But the opposite is also damaging, there's no need for racism or sexism in the military (or society as a whole). It serves no productive purpose. Society should be a meritocracy. That way it makes better use of the human potential of its population and people have as broad as possible a range of fields to find their talents.
I think Kelsey gave us the key to this kerfuffle early on, when he said that 90% of departures are to the west. The controller was probably operating from habit when she told EVA to turn LEFT heading 180. That's what she would normally tell people who took off to the west. Not saying she didn't know left from right, or east from west. But sometimes the part of our brain that controls our mouth just says what it's used to saying.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
That's a really good reasoning for this. Makes good sense.
Yeah muscle memory takes over sometimes. I've had it happen when i worked as a cook, if a burger said "No Grilled Onions" I would read it and muscle memory would make me reach for grilled onions and place it on the cheese because its the standard way to make the burger. Then I would have to fix that mistake.
And these happen far more under stress.
Agreed
ATC: "please make a left-right turn towards a north-south bound heading"
@Benjamin Pierce and climb and maintain 5000 and 7000 and 6000
@@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307 affirmative………action
@@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307 Uhh, yikes? Maybe don't be a racist/sexist? Have you considered that them being bad at their job has nothing to do with being black and/or a woman?
Uh... Roger, Roger! What's your clearance, Clarence? What vector, Victor?
Surely you can't be serious!
As a retired controller, that Socal controller is an embarrassment. Sounds like a rookie. If she was a trainee, the trainer should have stepped in and corrected the situation.
I would be so frustrated as a pilot having to listen to her. They sounded increasingly stressed, too. Being an ATC sounds tough - you can't ever really have an off day - but in this situation, it could cause some pretty bad results.
@@jamieohjamie Actually, days off are great. Nothing undone, sitting on your desk, or other work building up. When you're off, you're off.
@@jamieohjamie I’m frustrated simply hearing her talk lol
I just imagine most passengers in that EVA flight thinking the pilot is shit after tuning left, right, then left and right again while climbing hard and stop climbing
Send her back to basic orienteering! I sincerely doubt she has held an actual compass in hand
That has to be very scary as a pilot, knowing you are relying on someone else to keep you alive, and that someone is obviously having an issue keeping things clear.
It’s like the old saying: what links pilots maintenance and atc? Pilot screws up pilot dies. Maintenance screws up pilot dies, atc screws up pilot dies
it is! :( tell me about it.
I was training and ATC (who was also training someone) allowed a plane on the runway while I was coming in for a landing. My instructor caught it, we did a go around, other plane pulled off the runway, and I learned to be cautious
@@Valantir That being said Pilots are still dying less than car drivers :)
Are you describing our current president?
Thanks for explaining the meaning of "heavy"! Have taken many business and personal flights all over the world in the past, and sometimes listened in to pilot communication with the ATC before landing. Always wondered what "heavy" meant. Now I understand and many other things you explain so well in all your videos. Thanks much for sharing!
My thoughts exactly! Before this it always left me with the mental image of a struggling plane with thought bubble saying “Mom says Im just big-boned..”. Im weird, I know :)
@@janemiettinen5176 😄😄😄
In Flight Simulator, I used to check, “Append heavy to callsign” when I flew a C172. I thought it was funny.
AS a retired controller, this was a very embarrassing thing to see. This controller was very scary. Controllers typically know very well left from right!
It sounded to me like she was under pressure and having trouble with orientation. It was like she was used to the regular west departure where South is a left turn and didn't adapt to the plane leaving in the opposite direction making South a right turn. I wonder if an airprox got filed that might have more information.
Edit: I had a look and there was no airprox filed but there is an NTSB CFIT report OPS17IA010
for the incident. EVA015 got really close to Mount Wilson (0.3 miles at 0 ft above the mountain top.) The report isn't complimentary about the controller's incident recovery technique. The Controller was fully qualified for the position for 2 years 8 months and was an on-the-job training instructor (OJTI) 😱
@@paulstimpson830 No way! She teaches others how to be ATC? Good grief.
@@blackwidow8412 I’ve seen controllers still in upgrade training get aircraft saves and I’ve seen 10+year controllers point planes at planes. Every time you plug in to control is different, everyone has goofs. There are so many factors that could play into her loss of situational awareness. However, I will say a controller worth their salt will stop saying “left/right” and say “fly heading XXX” after getting it wrong more than once.
Obvious Affirmative Action hire.
@@bretisenhoff2444 That sounds pretty plausible! I think that anyone, even the most experienced person can get things confused if enough conditions align. That's why what Kelsey says is really important. Everyone should always try to be aware in case the other person mixes things up. Like when you're driving a car and you're doing everything right, but the lights malfunction, then you need to be aware of that and not just continue going, because that might cause an accident or even someone to die.
Am a ATC and listening to the LAX EVA departure made me cringe... several times. The controller phraseology and professionalism was poor. Agree with Kelsey 100%.
perhaps you can say "if there is a city of around 200 thousand in front of you, go to 8 thousand" (and the mountain beyond it is around 12 thousand feet).
What airport do you monitor?
*+Charlie* s/he monitors and is an ATC at ZKPY (P'yŏngyang Kukche Pihaengchang)
@@sailaab Learned something new again. I know it makes sense, just didn't expect North Korea to have a functioning Airport including English speaking controllers
@@boooster101 He could be pulling our leg:
"UA-cam is blocked in North Korea because of the country's laws regarding the Internet and its accessibility. It has been fully blocked since April 2016, and the North Korean government has warned that anyone who tries to access it is subject to punishment."
EVA015 Heavy: "ATC I have a number for you to call EVA015 heavy"
Lol
😂😂😂
😂😂
What if they don’t call the number?
1-800-EAT-SH*T
Oh Kelsey, thanx soo much for all your great aviation education! Being a retired semi truck driver, and having no words for how terrified I have always been of flying, I feel many similarities in our jobs, such as one moments decision being life or death, & seeing you alone in a hotel room, many miles from home & family. Please stay safe, & continue to have fun!!
She’s probably never worked departure when the winds were from the east prior to this. So day after day she has planes taking off to the west, needing to turn, and to go south they turn left. But today she had a plane going the opposite direction, needing to turn south, and told them to turn left out of habit. She didn’t even realize her mistake and then became flustered as cluck when she saw the plane turning left when she probably thought she told them to turn right. Instead of rationally thinking about the issue, she stayed in “autopilot” with the habit of planes going west for take off and just reacted and reacted and reacted without ever actually controlling the situation in her mind.
That was what I was thinking too.
Because turn left heading 270 is what you do 95% of the time flying out of LAX out over the ocean. You nailed it.
Sounds logical.
A very astute observation.
Ooooh. That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation, DFW3!
Back in the early 90's, I had started to take college courses to prepare me to apply for ATC work. I did a co-op placement at my airport, and when I realized (saw in real life) how they juggle planes in the air and didn't kill them all, made me realize that I cannot think in the 3D way they need to be able to, do the work. So hats off to the controllers, it is a very difficult job.
Thank you for being big enough to acknowledge your limitations and not endanger people because of an ego that can’t admit it’s not your skill set.
My dad worked as a cargo agent when the PATCO strike happened. I was just 13, but he kept talking about how the controllers were upset about conditions that impacted safety, like overwork. Made sense me. I was astonished later when I later heard all the "they were selfish" nonsense. Jobs that require focus to maintain safety have to give workers proper working conditions. I've always thought that I'd last 10 minutes because my mind would drift to "do I need to buy milk?"
@@animula6908 I think that I would fare better as a passenger helping to land a plane than last 10 minutes as an ATC. I have total respect for the high-stress job that ATCs do.
@@Tracymmo Exactly. You hear it often how they're understaffed + fatigued. When they went on strike for better + safer conditions in 1981, President Reagan fired 11,345 workers. It was against union rules for ATC / government workers to strike. If their union can't or won't help them improve ATC conditions, who can? Can anyone blame them for going to extremes when they felt they were not being taken seriously + were fatigued + it was compromising safety?
@@Akeakamai ATC is listed as the most stressful job. The most dangerous was North Sea fishermen.
That last acknowledge from the pilot "15 heavy". I felt that in my soul. This poor guy just wanted some peace and quiet after all that nonsense 😂
"They would be in trouble, but I would be dead." Words to live by. I notice that all the best pilots seem to have an avoidance philosophy, as opposed to a blame philosophy. Even when looking at NTSB Final Reports, aviation doesn't look to assign blame, but to repair any procedural faults. At the end of the day, people will make mistakes, and you can't fix that. Love your channel. Only recently found it, but I've seen you on other channels doing the "Real Pilot vs. Hollywood" or whatever. Thanks for educating and entertaining!
10:08 what you didn't mention is that this rule (probably like many other rules) was written in blood - a mid-air collision actually happened because a pilot listened to the ATC instead of the TCAS, and everybody died.
Yep
Baskirian 2937
July 2002
Russian pilots were trained to follow ATC instruction over the TCAS, the DHL pilot acted on TCAS. Youre right though everyone died, including the controller 1 year later at the hands of one of the dead children's father who lost his son and wife. As a result of this tragedy, the rule now is TCAS has priority
@@TheAngmarwitch that father lost his wife, son, & daughter. Then he went out to help with the search for bodies & he found his daughter & she was the only one who was in one piece basically.
What were the odds tho 😐 that was meant to be.
Her instructions nearly sent the B77W into the San Gabriel Mountains. It passed less than 1600 feet next to Mount Wilson's summit.
You can see that he’s a real pilot because he’s always in a different hotel room
And they are nice hotels
@@mp40submachinegun81 you think this is a nice hotel room?😂
@@abimbolaaku2709 It's not a fancy one, but it's a nice one. Nice big fluffy king or queen size bed. You must just be a spoiled brat and have never seen a slummy hotel room *LOL CRYFACE EMOJI
@@abimbolaaku2709 man stop embarrassing your self by boasting about being in better hotel rooms. It is a nice hotel room for 99,9% people on the Earth.
What a very stupid comment,a pilot can sleep nowhere else than his house,its not because you arenot a long haul pilot that you re not a pilot at all.
The legend goes that Kelsey isn’t wearing trousers while recording.
😂😂😂 That's really funny and probably true! 😂
The 'Friendly' Skies' 😁
Probably since he may not want them wrinkled lol
Boxers or briefs?
Or g-string?!
Lol
When you talk about people tones, it felt so relatable. My mom speaks in a bad tone all the time and that makes me really uncomfotable.
Ricko
From an ex ATC all you said was spot on.
I was taught to say "right I say again right" whenever you needed an aircraft to turn the long way around, as it was something
the pilot was not expecting. Great video.
That was the very first thing I caught on the tape. Leaves too much ambiguity. Felt like a point out approved without looking hahahhaa
I love how you keep your job and your UA-cam connected YET disconnected at the same time. You talk about your job and give awesome details, but you never actually bring a camera into a plane or an airport, rather you look up reference photos or videos. It shows your focused on your job when you’re needed to, especially when lives are on the line
In Aussie ATC, the phraseology we use for a long way around turn is “Turn left, I say again, left, 180...”, so that aircrew know we understand we’re sending you the long way and that is indeed the way we need you to go.
So sensible! Succinct and easy to understand, even if English is not their first language.
In the Netherlands this is the same I believe
Europe is the same, ATC in training here, if we want the plane to turn the long way round you always have to say I say again, so that the pilot is aware that you didn't just confuse the sides of the world...this dumbass controller on the other hand needs her licence pulled ASAP, she's gonna kill someone.
Presumably you would do that to to gain more altitude before reaching the requested heading... ie You would be lower as you exited the turn if you were to turn right 180° (from a 090° heading) vs a left tun to 180°... Which could be useful for traffic separation🤔
Obviously mountains notwithstanding...
@@axel995r good luck with your training! Just finished with mine months ago. It's a fantastic career. Enjoy
I am a non-pilot who loves everything about aviation (kinda like a penguin…lol), and I really appreciate the explanations of the terms.
Haha, great analogy
It sounds like the real heroes here are the engineers and system developers who have worked out these aircraft and systems of redundancy over the past few decades!
If you watch the show Air Disasters it goes into detail about crashes & how/why it led to such systems. Its always sad to hear about death but at least those lives helped save so many more.
Yup. “Every regulation is written in blood”
@@OmniDuck People did not die in vain. There were lessons learned from every crash and that's why these extra warnings exist today. Great show.
@@OmniDuck that's right! and although less likely, more to come in the future.
Them and the pilots
At what point do you as a pilot get to say "let me talk to somebody else"?
I literally heard that once on one of the ATC UA-cam channels. The ATCer did not comply.
Can i get a supervisor?
Good things there weren't karen pilots
Potato
Not for a lack of trying. Pilots have tried to sue their way into a 747 cockpit after getting rejects.
Only if their name is Karen
“They’d be in trouble, but I would be dead.”
Big facts
As a flight attendant, can’t imagine what these non-American EVA pilots were thinking with these scary instructions, and, I assume, the F/A’s and passengers were getting whiplash.
She not only misguided them but she also would say south and north in the same breath as she corrected herself. She got it backwards constantly. I would’ve asked for another controller after the second fuck up. Trust was gone by then
@thebirdee Yep, but there’s no guarantee they’ll switch for you.
I would've just started ignoring her
@@jamesTBurke the requirement to follow ATC was implemented after a B25 flew into the Empire State Building after waving off ATC.
@@brianbeattie3305 maby so but if they are gonna have an attitude with me for no reason then I'd go to a different airport and file a report with the FAA
@@jamesTBurke Good job losing your license, your job and possibly your life over being petulant. 👍🏻
"Ok you're clear for take off" "Err we're in the sky" "Oh ok land to your left" "That's the Ocean" "Please brake, turn right 750 degrees no wait backwards to my right"
Ok get me off of this train wreck...
Its like an airforceproud95 episode
😂
I loved that: “Pilots are moving in the direction they are going.” You are right on target about situational awareness.
Clearly, absolutely, totally the very best of three or four UA-cam aviation channels! Your shows are lively, often captivating, and always educational. I enjoy your down-to-earth, non-presumptious attitude and tell-it-like-it-is narratives. You win my vote as the most humble and honest pilot on UA-cam.
I'd like to see and learn more about ATC procedures, and rules that apply to the controllers. I know pilots must follow the rules on-air and in-air with the mic and what's said. What rules apply to the controllers when they key the mic? More more more! Thank you.
"surely you can't be serious" ...
"I AM SERIOUS, and don't call me Shirley".
"OK you be SERIOUS and I'll be ROEBUCK!"
A great line.
I take it black.. like my men.
Did you get the clearance Clarence? what are the vectors victor?
Whats your vector, Victor?
I speak fluent English and even for me this is confusing, can’t imagine being the pilots on Eva Air
Had to listen to a lot of medical stuff over the air couple of decades ago then write it down allowing zero mistakes. And even i couldn't sort this out in my head. You're not alone.
Ikr
English is my only language and even I couldn't understand this.
It's nice to listen to a calm, experienced person instead of an entitled idiot. I'm glad I found your channel. Thank you!
I once knew a UPS pilot that had full engine failure on approach to the Louisville hub after extending the gear. “Unflappable Jim“ (as I remember him) just calmly glided down a heavy without much fanfare or chagrin to the runway like butter, afterwards the maintenance crew found that the fuel delivery system was not working properly to the engines. Textbook stuff. Guy is a total legend in my book.
3:12 "I mean we're asking for permission, but we're doin it"...Still D.R.E. starts playing... I'm dead 😩😂💀
’xactly
Hi Kelsey. After watching 4-5 of your videos and listening to your commentary, I come to the conclusion that you did not become a 747 pilot by accident. You process problems with a high degree of consideration and common sense and you are a bad ass communicator. It does not surprise me that people want to fly with you.
Thats a really kind thing for you to say Patrick thank you, next week you will see some of the less kind things that people say to me, but I think they are pretty funny anyway! Thanks for watching!
He says he's "not that smart," but he continues to show us otherwise! I think he was born to be an aviator + and instructor. He has plethora of common sense + exceptional communication skills.
@@concierge7574 agreed. Smart and humble. Good combination.
@@concierge7574 I agree. He IS as sharp as a razor.
"It may not be my fault, but it's my responsibility" love to see it.
Now, if we could export that to road users, and society in general for that matter...
You very much have a gift providing explanations that are so clear and easy for the average person to understand. As a pilot I think the terms are so common to you that it would be easy to not see that others may not know what "that" is. I love your mindset of keeping things simple (in your flying and your explanations). I believe this makes you a much safer pilot (and better teacher)....and keeps things interesting for average viewers. I have no aviation background but have always wanted to know what they are talking about and how it works.
That was a great explanation of the wake turbulence created by a “heavy” aircraft.
I agree!💯
I think Kelsey could have actually used the term 'wake turbulence'. Even those of us who are non-pilots have a minimal amount of general knowledge (at least in the UK).
Only time my instructor took the 152 away from me, was while getting my night quals, shooting a couple of touch in goes at 3 am in DTW. It might have been helpful to get a wake turbulence call from the controller, not being able to see type of aircraft was taking off, while I was on final. Although, my instructor was on the radio calling inbound from Willow Run, while I was still climbing out.
Yes.
I fully understand “heavy”, now.
Cue that kennedy steve clip, something like "after the single engine cessna, proceed, caution propwash"
You know she actually wanted to give directions like: "Turn right at the big cloud, then left around that flock of birds. If you see mountains you've gone too far"
Awesome!
OMG...FUNNY!!!
😂
That was epic🤣
I can't say if these reply comments are genuine or sarcasm..
These pilot vs atc are very interesting, keep them coming
This is the most positive, most funny, and most _conscious_ aviation channel I've come across. You are just as aware of your audience as you are of your cockpit and aircraft, and for that, you are deeply respected by me and countless others. It's like a combination of Mentour Pilot and Pilot Debrief, but much more self-aware.
16:40 "That's not the way I like to look at things, this kind of victim mentality" Kelsey, you just gained a *lot* of brownie points from me. I love that you look at it as "what can I do to make it better" rather than "whose fault is it".
@Brad James Then have fun arguing about "he said, she said" while planes are crashing. Also, why are you even watching this video if you think Kelsey's "incompetent"? And where's your pilot's license since you apparently know more than him?
@Brad James Get a motorcycle. THEN you can tell me ALL about how important it is "who's at fault" or "who had right of way" when your broke all to hell in a ditch somewhere or too crippled up to wipe your own ass.
"Get good quick, kid... or get DEAD quicker." ;o)
That's the positive mind set of a winner, + of a caring pilot who genuinely wants improvement + safety at the forefront in the industry. He takes immediate action to do it. If there were more pilots like Kelsey + Sully + Jeff Skiles, there'd be fewer accidents + better + always cooperative attitudes during CRM. I bet there is a best selling aviation book by Kelsey in the future.
@Brad James Sounds like something someone who is usually at fault but tries to convince the other person they were at fault would say...
Afterwards you can assign blame. In the moment you have to figure out what you can do. I swear I see drivers, pedestrians who seem to be going with the mentality that since they technically have the right of way they can do everything possible to put their own, and possibly my own, life in danger.
Pilot to ATC: "When you have finished your shift, I have a number you need to ring!"😂
Kelsey - you have a wonderful ability to generate smiles around the world & regardless of mood! And that's in addition to all the knowledge you give away to the rest of us about one of the most intriguing and rewarding professions in the world: being a pilot.
ON TOP OF THE FACT YOU FLY A PLANE WE ALL LOVE! (747)
Anyway thanks for all your hard work! It means a lot!
As a former RAPCON Air Traffic Controller these two examples are perfect ! Whenever someone asks me what I did for a living and I said ATC … they’re like ooooo stressful , my answer is : if you can tie your shoe you can do ATC , it’s a common sense job . I loved it and I was pretty good at it . ( I’m gonna brag now , I did receive a save award 😉) I miss it . Thank you for sharing this . I’m new to your channel and occasionally I need a healthy distraction. God bless 🇺🇸😎
As a retired controller with 37 years under his belt (4 years USAF), I have to respectfully disagree with you! Not everybody that can tie their shoe can separate airplanes. The wash out rate for Air Traffic school in 1987 was greater than 50%.
"They would be in trouble and I would be dead." Quote of the month... too funny!!! Thanks, Kelsey... I so much look forward to watching your videos!
Newbie to the channel, just discovered it. Having worked emergency services at a busy airport for 5 years, incorporating airfield operations, this is super interesting. Also, you seem extremely humble and friendly so it makes watching even more pleasurable. 👍
Hey Kelsey, I just flew a plane for the first time and you inspired me to start flight school thanks for inspiring me and making me want to have the best job in the world and ignore people who way I cant
Hey Narcoleptic Goat, Congrats on beginning your persuit to fly! Never ever give up. Wishing you all the best with youur studies and lessons. Read everything you can get your hands on!
Oh god a narcoleptic pilot!
Could you please remember to find this thread when you get hired as a commercial pilot? We need to know, I am not sure I would want to fly on a plane with a narcoleptic pilot. 🤣
nice man, i got my first solo tomorrow and im shitting myself
I am not a pilot but enjoy this channel for it's great stories. This episode brings to mind a flight we took in a Piper Warrior from a little private field South of Savanna, Illinois into Midway in Chicago. Coming into Midway, our pilot friend noticed some DC-10's off in the distance doing touch and go landings (practice?). The ATC told us to make sure to do something once we got all stopped (or something like that). Our pilot friend quickly responded, "I'm still on my final approach." To this the atc responded, "turn right immediately to yadda yadda yadda". Boy, we cranked around and I could see the windows of that big airliner as he passed by on our left. It's a miracle we didn't get blasted by turbulence but we obviously made a safe landing eventually and don't remember us doing anything special other than get in the car and drive to get a real thick Chicago style pizza. Our friend told us it was probably one of those DC-10's we saw earlier. It was nighttime. Seems we got pretty lucky.
You don't know how hard I'm laughing at this line " If the controller vectors you into a mountain, they are in trouble and you're dead" 😂
Following the air traffic controller till your last breath. 😂
Love your videos Kelsey.
Reminds me of how you have to use common sense when using GPS
@@Jillousa lol
Yesss 😂
my sides hurt from laughing so hard listening to these poor pilots frantically trying to comply with the controller's aggressive and irreconcilable instructions. The fact that these commands are being barked so haphazardly at 200 tons of fuel and machinery barreling through the sky at 200mph is sobering.
more like 500mph
I don't find it the least bit amusing.. your talking about 1000 lives.
As an ATCO, i agree with this pilot. Most of times the pilots help us. If they ask something that i've already cleared him to do I immediately check what i've done to see if something is wrong. We also help them if they say/request something wrong :)
The crack about billygoats is from an old "Far Side" cartoon. The caption is actually, "Say...what's a mountain goat doing way up here in a cloud bank?". If you do an image search with that line, you'll see it. The funniest part (to me) is that he has time to ask.
Ahh miss profuncisiveness of Gary Larsons The Far Side. (Yes, invented=profundity + incisiveness)
Roumurs have it that he will come out of pension
The other funny Gary Larson aviation cartoon was two pilots in the cockpit, and passengers with wide eyes of terror seen through the airplane’s windows. The caption was “OH MY GOD! We have a fire in the #2 engine!!! Oh wait, that’s just the intercom light”.
Did you hear about the flight where the captain comes on the intercom and says “ Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain. Thank you …..blah, blah, … temp in Denver will be ..
Blah, blah, blah…. etc,.. etc….” Then the mic key froze when the captain was done with the announcement. Captain sits back, and inadvertently over the intercom says …. “All I need now is a good cup of coffee and a great ‘BJ’. Female flght attendant rushes up to the cockpit to let the captan know his mic is still keyed, and a loud voice coming from the back of the plane says “Don’t forget the coffee!”
@@matsv201 Do you mean 'retirement'? A pension is collected upon retirement. You can still work and collect a pension. Always use a monolingual dictionary if you're unsure or search for the 'difference between' on Google. You wouldn't like it if we misused an engineering term, right? 😉
I add “long way around” on those turns over 180 degrees. A lot faster then the pilot coming back and asking to confirm.
Brilliant idea
"What are you doing?!" It sounds like she's scolding a child.
Yeah for following her instructions. It reminds me of an anti-drug ad from when I was a kid. A dad is yelling at his son after catching him doing drugs. The kid yells "I learned it by watching YOU!"
Captain Sum Ting Wong “ ice berg straight ahead !” EVA what are you doing ? It’s Christmas I’m in San Diego you’re at LAX. I ain’t got no time for this
lady... that's no way to talk to a child
Reminded me of a drive through employee when a teenager does something stupid.
She sounds like a Karen scolding an adult who's doing nothing wrong.
Can we appreciate how calm the eva pilot was? With that shitty instructions I would’ve been yelling at her to decide whether its left or right🤦🏼♀️ she is like ielts listening describing a map , trying to be as confusing as possible 😤
I feel like I'd be pretty mad at that controller if I was that pilot, the way that she had a rude tone of voice when she literally made the mistake herself would piss me off. Great pilot!
Ex controller here. Her trainer needs to put in her right hand. Incredibly embarrassing!
Sorry, put it a rock in her right hand.
I'm a former ATC (IFR at busy airports) and now commercial pilot - On the first occurrence, this should have been picked up by her sector supervisor at its early stage and maybe taken out of the seat. Its a tough job with very little margin for error. Thanks for your vids!!
After my 30 years of ATC, I believe it’s safe to assume she would have been promoted to a supervisory position. Supervisor’s were usually the worst controllers. That is a fact.
FATHER WHO IS EDUCATOR SAID SAME OF TEACHERS AND PRINCIPALS.
Only 13 years, lvl 11 TRACON, can confirm
Especially since the race card is in play.
Yep same thing on the PD. RACE IS ALWAYS A factor too 😂
@@chrismartin9849 say that to BB's face lol
Holy cow! How is that flight crew maintaining their cool with her? I’d have lost it and gotten all over her for giving crazy and contradictory instructions. She’s endangering their lives and wasting fuel.
Because the radio is a commodity. Everyone needs it, you don't have time to hold a conversation or have personal crap like how you hate something going on over the radio. They are probably talking mad shit in the cockpit though.
@@Linsquip_ that's also probably why they keep changing the person/pilot to talk to the controller right
I was impressed by the Eva flight crew. Had they lost their cool, the results could have been deadly. In effect, they kept that contoller from freaking out even more!
because getting mad at her would only make it harder and furthur endanger their lives
S R Castic: Luckily you are not a pilot and hopefully you will never be!
Kudos to the pilots who dealt with this the best they could, and continued to fly their airplane. Less confusing instructions from ATC than these have caused crashes in the past.
“Which side is that Private Pyle?!?!” “LEFT SIDE SIR”…
Nice FULL METAL JACKET reference!
What are you doing to my beloved corp private Pyle ?
@@shuttze pyle : Sir, I don't know, sir!
Kevin...I am not from the U.S. of A...
Have got some idea of the epic toilet scene (suicide).. but still fail to grasp the exact context
Gold! "Private ATC, what are you trying to do to my beloved airspace?!"
"Sir, vector two planes into each other, Sir!" XD
Not a mistake, but one of the most iconic exchanges.
Background: most jets can reach somewhere between 40000 and 45000 feet.
Plane (P): may I go to 50000 feet?
Controller: if you can reach 50000, you can have it.
P: OK, descending to 50000.
The plane was an SR-71.
I heard that with 65000.
I swear there are only two stories about the SR-71. The "descending to 50000" story and the "ground speed check" story. There are no others.
As a retired ATC, in 35 years I only ever saw a four digit ground speed readout one time. On initial contact from a SR-71 descending into controlled airspace, 1480 knots through 62000 feet
@@Lyndiloo there is one more, the swedish Viggen locking on to a sr-71.
The sr71 is one bad mother.
Sounds to me like she got mixed up thinking they’d taken off flying the “normal” direction so when she first told them to turn left,in her mind, she meant South and away from the mountains, when in reality they were going the opposite way she expected.
I feel like an alarm clock which said “terrain terrain pull up” would he the most effective alarm clock ever
Low terrain low terrain wake up wake up 😂
My dad has that as a text message alert, definitely turns some heads
😂 I’m going for the “stall stall” with vibration option
gonna be having wild nightmares
Pilots have those sort of alarm clocks at work already
That was crazy! I’d love to see the ATC’s instructions put on paper.
I like being able to fly, look, and communicate with atc. Having to look down and read atc would be bad. But for low workload ocean crossing they do have electronic clearance.
Probably a spiral... or else the kind of chaotic scribbling you'd see from a toddler
It’s all on paper in the final NTSB report from 2019. Doesn’t look good.
Really concerning how often she interrupts and corrects herself, giving the impression that she hardly has any situational awareness. Oh, just as I wrote this you got to the part where you point out the same thing.
Thanks for explaining “souls on board”. I’ve been binge watching your videos and it seemed like a strange term. Completely makes sense now.
“Fuel on board - They want to know how long this plane will fly for...”
- Or how long it will burn for !!
Or: how big of a fireball is this going to be when it drops out of the sky...
@@autohmae - Yup.
Max landing weight? A fully loaded cargo plane with a full load of fuel could be over weight and need to dump fuel, although probably not a priority in an emergency situation when you really need to get the plane on the ground
ATC wants to know how long you can fly, firefighters want to know how much fuel there is to worry about.
@Cameron Russell Oh boy you have so much to learn
I always appreciate the controller who doesn't give me shit in that annoyed response when confirming a runway crossing, especially at busy airports (we operate out of Logan a lot). The good ones thank you for it, thus reinforcing that kind of safety redundancy and the attempt at minimizing human error.
That's good to hear, as ATC stress + being overworked is concerning. They are the Gods of sky safety + deserve the utmost of respect. My father always says "Never Assume." Great advice in many aspects if life, but esp. in aviation!
Yep, the last thing you want is to create a culture where someone's unsure of what to do, so they make assumptions about what's meant. Even more so when one of the assumptions could be deadly wrong...
@@fetchstixRHD Yes. That's when they might end up on the show Air Disasters. Rapidly changing weather in small planes can get risky quickly, if pilots aren't proficient in IFR, ie. resulting in spatial disorientation. Yet, they may be certified IFR.
Kelsey, please bring back the hotel view reveal. I love guessing it and I love to see where you are going.
Edit: I don't even mind if you go to the same place a lot and it gets repetitive. It just adds a lot to the video.
When I traveled I liked to take pictures OUT the window. My best was hosting a webconference (pre-Zoom) the first Friday in October . . . In Albuquerque facing the Albuquerque "Box"! So I had hot air balloons passing in the background. So please give us a shot looking out the window.
@@jdlft.w836 I’m going out on a limb and saying the Doubletree in Torrance, CA
Not sure if this is the case, but in recent videos he's talked about currently flying to deliver medical stuff and vaccines for the pandemic, meaning he's not allowed to share where he's flying from and to. Might be why he's not showing the view out of his hotel, in case that gets him in trouble when people figure out where he is.
As a pilot I bet you are very good at what you do. I was in the Military for over 27 years but had to cut my career short. But, I watch you all the time and I would love to fly with you knowing you have things under control cargo was one of the things I have to do at times based on our mission. So them coming you are great
Thank you for your service. ...you are a true patriot! !
enjoyed the video Kelsey!! These vids are starting to get addicting XDD Respect 74Gear!!
Eva air should have told the controller "i got a phone number for you to call" like controllers do to pilots when pilots mess up.😂
'The number is 0-800-FU'
For pilots, it's "Mark the tape"
Or asked her, "What are YOU doing?"
Well they are going to Taiwan and pretty sure they are not too keen on doing this after some 10 hours when they landed….
@@chrisschack9716 , Yes, all ATC transmissions are recorded.
“F.O. Kelsey Heavy expedite to THUG LIFE” Excellent!
OMG!
Irecognize that voice, style and competence level!!!
Super curious - during these pilot/ATC radio conversations are there extended periods of silence that are cut out in editing/post or are these conversations happening as fast as we're hearing them?
They are, but sometimes (almost always) they cut out any other RT with other AC that isn’t relevant to the case.
you make the best tarkov vids brother
They cut out clear space. You can see this on V A channel too
what's amazing is that although it might sound like not alot is going on, the controller could be getting his ass kicked at the same time. hard to tell if you're not right there.
@@cchanc3 Yeah it seems too easy to pile on this ATC for giving confusing instructions. I have to imagine there was something else going on.
I'm not a pilot but I've found "Say again your last, over" to be a very handy phrase in all kinds of situations.
You are at a slight risk of ATC repeating the rubbish they have issued. Another option would be "please state required heading".
"I don't have the balls to do that, personally". It actually takes quite a bit of balls to admit that and give credit to those who do. But really, none of us knows what we are capable of until we are put in that situation.
Yes but firefighters put themselves into those situations, which means balls are required.
@@nancyrice7569
Not only do they run into fire, I’m floored with their life-saving medical know-how skills too. They saved my arse after I went unconscious and face-planted on my mom’s driveway, from the worst asthma attack of my life. I was turning blue when they arrived (luckily they were only a few blocks away), and my mother was trying to give me cpr until then.
The ambulance is a good 20 minute drive to where I was at, so these firefighters somehow got oxygen into me until the paramedics arrived. I didn’t regain consciousness until I got to the ER. I consider it a damn miracle I didn’t suffer any brain damage from oxygen deprivation. No idea what sort of voodoo magic they all did, but it’s astounding just how big their skillset is, how brave they are, and how much stress and pressure they undergo.
ATC here. Such control habit does not happen overnight. It's been developed over a long time, and THE SUPERVISORS HAVE FAILED TO CHECK IT AND CORRECT IT. But in the US......"affirmative action"......
Affirmative Action vs. being hired for your talent and skill set. This is just lunacy.
I'm glad someone had the balls to mention this. Clear diversity hire, thankfully not a lethal outcome.
You made my morning Kelsey!!!!
Isn't that the truth.. New Mexico love
Kelsey, thank you for explaining the "heavy" thing... I've been wondering about that!
atc; "who told you you could have the right side?"
pilot; "the gremlin on the starboard wing. he looks kinda mean so i thought i better comply."
Yes Twilight Zone reference
When you instantly loses your job.
ATC : Airforce 1, what are you DOING!
A DEI hire ATC wouldn't think twice about saying that, knowing that she's bullet-proof.
As a viewer, I was getting confused with what the controller was saying. Damn hats of to the pilots who understood and followed her. Even though as you said she was giving confusing orders.
There are only so many things they ask you to do on a regular basis, so you have a pretty good idea of the kind of things they might ask. And after the ten thousandt time they ask you to do it, it's pretty easy to understand. But yeah, she was pretty confusing...