As someone who has taken care of a loved one on their journey through cancer and death, I really identified with many aspects of this game. How Hugo accepts his fate and is calm, how Amicia fights against authority to take care of her brother, and how she herself finally accepts the only possible outcome - this game seems like a parable of our modern day journey through disease and acceptance.
I couldn't agree more. I've been there too, and my first script addressed this theme of critical/terminal illness. I think that's why I have a lot of sympathy for their mother, who tried to do her very best using the more conventional means available to her, but gets undercut by her well-meaning (albeit, in denial) daughter. There are a lot of layers to the story that I think get glossed over by the supernatural elements.
This video needs way more exposure. The end of requiem destroyed me as while playing both innocence and requiem my son was the same age as Hugo, so i felt a real need to protect him. This video had an amazing explanation and gave me a small feeling of closure. Thank you for making this
I'm glad I could help! I made this video pretty much because I needed closure as well. Researching really helped me with that. And yeah, playing Requiem with my son at the same age as Hugo made it hit especially hard. I completely understand how you feel. 😞
Hugo dying right after Beatrice makes that final walk and conversation between Amicia and "Hugo" make so much more sense. When I first played the game, I was taken aback at how much older "Hugo" seemed mentally; he felt much older than his age. Through your analysis, it's obvious now that it's the ageless Macula using Hugo's form and the siblings' bonds to lead Amicia to finish its cycle.
It makes sense to me as well, but I can see the argument that the whole experience has aged him beyond his years. Personally, I think Hugo in the death walk is a projection of Amicia, I also love how the series can be interpreted in many ways
I@@lordjlo817I think the developers said somewhere in January that the illusion theory wasn't actually what happened. But I saw it in Reddit so it might not be real.
@@booboones3093 I'm surprised they would respond to that. Seems like they'd want to keep the mystery alive until they make a sequel. I don't think the illusion theory makes sense, but I know a good chunk of people enjoy it.
Your analysis is deep but what really elevates this video is your writing. You’re a fantastic writer my friend. I wish you nothing but success. You deserve it. Whatever you do, don’t stop writing. The views will come.
I finished requiem yesterday and now I saw this video I gotta say amazing I can definitely see all your hard work and it's a shame it doesn't have more exposure
I could be wrong, but I think that the thresholds represent the completion of each step of the Magnum Opus: -Nigredo covers pretty much the entire first game, as Hugo is surrounded by fear, darkness, and despair. Passing the first threshold would be the completion of this step, shown by Hugo accepting the rats' desire to be used by him. -During the 6 months interim, Hugo did pass the unknown number of thresholds between the first, and the 'last'. My guess is that past the first threshold, the spread was inevitable, but slow and safe. As the rats were already getting what they wanted, they had no reason to disobey Hugo and remained dormant... but never too far. They were always close, should he need them. We can consider this the Albedo stage. -And he did use them. In the beekeeper castle, Hugo used the rats, and essentially started his Citrinitas stage. As the fear of ruining another home kept rising within him, the Macula spread to almost trying to fight for control within Hugo. The rats started to disobey Hugo as a part of his subconscious now wanted them to start preparing the Nebula, while giving Hugo his dreams. It would soon be time. This is when the Order decided to condemn and imprison Basilius(and Hugo), not realizing what they would unleash. As they gave up at this point, they assumed that this was the 'last' threshold. Little did they know, that's what set the stage for the real last threshold. -Cintrinitas ended with Beatrice's death. Now the Macula was able to exert itself over Hugo, trying to merge the two into one. But Amicia snapped him back, albeit, this was the last time he could ever snap back. -Hugo accepted the Macula in Marseille, effectively completing the irreversible Rubedo stage, and starting the Nebula. The Macula became the consciousness, while Hugo was pushed to the subconscious. It is in this position that Hugo started to interfere with the Macula, similar to how it interfered with him, thus allowing Amicia and Lucas to get close enough to kill him/it. Hugo mentioned that trying to force the rats to do something they don't want hurts him, so I imagine his twitching on the tree to be the pain of letting you get close enough. Now, as for the Nebula, one interpretation I have is that it is the blending of the macrocosm with the microcosm. In alchemy, to perform a process, you would need to perform it within both at the same time - the external physical, and the internal spiritual. The Crucible was going for some kind of transmutation which could border on cosmic horror. The end result would be the Macula free from its human prison. To add to this, it is possible that the Macula was in such a state to begin with, but a group of alchemists managed to contain it within their own bloodlines. Perhaps this was the Great Break; one of the remaining mysteries from this story.
The fact that hermetic or psychological alchemy can be used in a variety of ways, like you're suggesting with Hugo, is what drew me to the idea. It is very flexible to different interpretations. I really like the idea of ancestral alchemists successfully containing the Macula within their own bloodline. It makes a lot more sense than having random families contract it. I still don't care for the Macula existing in blood at all (I'm more of fan of it being a cosmic horror), but with your explanation, I can at least understand it a bit better. Great ideas!
It’s not fair! They deserved to live a happy long life after everything they’ve been through! Thank for your analysis, it’s definitely insightful and informative, but I wish we could all close the game and know those two will live happily ever after…
It definitely would be nice to see them in a happy life, but I suppose, if the games ended that way, would we be talking about it as much? There's definitely more intrigue and discussion when the creators are willing to press an issue the player doesn't necessarily want. Making me, the player, pull out the sling and target Hugo has a huge impact on how I view the story overall. If the game ended happily... I'm not sure I'd care as much. I certainly wouldn't have made this video LOL All that said, my heart would prefer them to be happy, but from a storytelling perspective, the game suffers. Thanks for watching!
I can’t describe how much I enjoyed your tangent. Using alchemy to explain not only the Macula and it’s motives but how it impacts the narrative, especially Amicia and Hugo was so insightful. Don’t get me started on that ending - Your interpretation was impeccable to what I’ve been trying to understand since I finished Requiem. Thank you!
I'm glad you got something out of my analysis! Ever since I finished Requiem, I knew there was more going on beneath the surface. Not saying I'm right or understand everything, but there were too many symbols and signs to ignore. And yeah... that ending is filled with emotion and symbolism. It's what got me interested in making this video. Thanks for watching! 😄
Welp. Here it is. The single best Plague Tale video on this entire platform. Biggest of bravos to you - it's plain to see how much thought, love and effort went into the creation of this. It's exceptionally detailed, explained and well-argued. I don't think I could've ever arrived at these conclusions myself, but I find myself in wholehearted agreement. I think you've got everything here spot on and it's nothing shy of an extraordinary piece of work. Don't apologize for the video being 'too long' or 'too deep,' this is exactly the type of super high-value content I love and that I think the gaming industry needs more of as a whole. Man, I just can't get over how awesome this was. Nice work. I'll check out more from your channel and I'd eat up anything else you have about Plague Tale. Thank you for this.
This series diesnt have as nearly big of a fan base as it should 😭 Thank you for making this video! The macula was such a mysetious aspect of the game and I love seeing and hearing other theroies about it!
Thanks for watching! 😁 I feel the same way! This series STILL hasn't garnered the acclaim it deserves. I feel gameplay might be off-putting to a general audience, but the stories are a lot more interesting than it lets on. I'm hoping analysis like this might open the door to people on the fence. Either way, I really hope they make a third game. What that would entail... lots of directions they could take. 🤔
I feel that your video needs way more exposure and it was a pleasure enjoying every single moment of it. Well, firstly I’d like to share that your content is amazing, the video is very well elaborated and the depth of the facts and contents showed throughout the analysis was able to answer questions and fill some “plot holes”. Of course, those are mainly theorical but makes absolute sense. Also, I’d like to share that I regret not playing this game earlier, I don’t know why it didn’t catch my attention back in 2019, and just in 2024 I gave it a chance and it was the best experience I’ve ever had in a video game (even after playing those “AAA” games like The Last of Us, God of War…). I laughed, I cared, I was tense and (eventually) cried. Looking back to all of the content you presented during the video, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve finished the games twice (both Innocence and Requiem) and I wasn’t able to relate to some alchemy concepts - like Nigredo, Albedo, Citrinitas and Rubedo. It truly enhances the experience and brings multiples perspectives on what is happing and why. Other elements like the music of the game changing according to the situations and giving us the opportunity to empathize with Hugo’s feelings and challenges regarding the Prima Macula or the rage and desperation of Amicia giving all she has in order to save her little brother. I don’t want to extend too much, but I think the game is a masterpiece in terms of story, character development, plot, soundtrack etc. Also, all the characters presented to us - excluding Vitalis - had an important role during our journey (Robert, Arthur, Melie, Rodric, Lucas, Beatrice, Arnauld, Sophia etc). But one thing kept me up at night and makes me think constantly about this story: Amicia. I’ve seen plenty of “reviews” regarding both games and I realized that she receives a lot of harsh criticism and makes me a little bit emotional when I look back to what she went through. With that said, she saw clearly her father being killed by Nicholas, her house being dominated by the inquisition and the rats - “controlled or not by Hugo” -, lost every single family member remaining (even that her mother’s death is a consequence of her denial and poor decision making), but she is still a teenager with 15 years old. Of course she will commit mistakes, as she is in a extreme situation where the only objective is to “heal/save” her brother and try to rebuild her life with Beatrice, Lucas and Hugo. And she’s badass dealing with those that slows them down. Even after killing a lot of soldiers, I cannot see any malice or “joy” in her actions as she is just scared. Once again, it’s my opinion, not necessarily an absolute truth. But I think Amicia is judged a way too harsh comparing to the all situations she had to deal “alone” - even in delusion or denial. I swear I’m finishing (sorry for the extension it took). The last thing I wanted just to share and “talk” - there’s no right or wrong, just perspectives - is about the level of consciousness of Hugo after Beatrice’s death. Indeed, it makes total sense to interpret that he died at that moment - as the productor said and others - but I don’t know, something in my guts still thinks that he wasn’t 100% gone at that moment, he had a little bit left and not just some “reflexes” (or the product of the symbiosis/fusion between him and the Macula) of the Prima Macula interacting with the situation - like Amicia being severely injured by the arrow or the will of saving Arnauld from execution. I guess that somehow Amicia was able to bring back a tiny piece of consciousness from Hugo (now being controlled by the Macula) at that specific moment at the bonfire and gave us two more genuine moments and not necessarily “guided” or “manipulated” by the Prima Macula. But definitely, in the Nebula, Amicia was hallucinating/dreaming and convincing herself to end her and Hugo’s suffering in order to finish the cycle and get that “rest” and “healing” she was always claiming. I am optimistic that Asobo will give us another game - probably following Amicia’s and Hugo’s footsteps - as the last scene of Requiem is very interesting showing a newborn baby carrying the Macula. It seems that it happens between the XIX - XX century. But, unfortunately we will have to wait in order to confirm. Well, that’s basically it! I’m a big fan of your content JLO and sorry if my English is not that good! :)
Quite the response! 😁 Amicia is definitely the driving force of the games and makes some poor choices. But as you said, she's a child. It's expected for her to make mistakes--especially given the dire circumstances she's in. As much flak as Amicia gets, I feel Beatrice also is unliked a bit unfairly within the larger community. She is dealing with an impossible situation that no parent would be prepared for. As for Hugo, I'm guessing my video doesn't explain the position well enough, as you're not the first to say Hugo is still around after his "death". I do say there is probably a vestige of Hugo remaining up until the Nebula, but the point I tried to make is from his mother's death until the Nebula, Hugo's date is sealed and he sharply declines. In my mind, Hugo is but a fleeting shadow of his former self at that point; he's dead in all but physicality. Anyway. I'm glad you got something out of the video. I've enjoyed reading all the different takes in comments! I hoped putting this out might spark discussion so mission accomplished I suppose!
@@lordjlo817 Right back at you - while rest of us just sit in a void after a great game is finished you restlessly work to squeeze more juice out of it. :D Hopefully there will be another PT soon to unravel more of the story.
@@sQubanaut I'm hopeful a third part will add to the overall story rather than rehash or play for sentimentality. There's a lot to play with and it would be easy to slide back into a game with big emotional impact without shaping the lore of the series
Very cool video (haven't finished it yet, but I will), but I've got one small thing to say as a professional, trained gardener. The flowers in hugo's dream are not poppies, even though the huge field/hill covered in red makes it look like they are, and I feel like they are meant to be poppies. but they're not. Poppies have sort of a tulip shape, where they extend upwards from the centre, kind of cradling it in a sort of cup. They also have much broader and fewer petals. If you look closely at the flowers, they have kind of a flat shape, like daisies, with long, narrow petals. This is very typical of flowers in the Asteraceae family (sunflowers, daisies, aster. It's the basic flower shape a kid would draw). But if you look even more closely, you'll see that in that scene there are two different types of flowers (whether just different varieties or different genuses), one with a yellow centre and petals that are a bit tighter spaced, and one with a black centre and looser spacing of the petals (if you want to interpret something with Nigredo and... whatever the yellow one was into this, feel free). Now, identifying Asteraceae is tricky, especially in video games where plant textures are vague at best, but I'm reasonably sure these flowers are Gerbera daisies, specifically the red Gerbera jamesonii, which is the ancestor of modern cultivated Gerberas. If you google them and look at a screenshot from Hugo's dream close up, you can see the similarities. The flower heads, the bare stem going down to the ground, and when I examined them in photo mode I was able to make out what I think is the lobed leaves that really set Gerberas apart from other plants in the family. Gerberas also come in both yellow and dark centred varieties, so that could explain the different textures in the game. The only problem with this is that Gerbera jamesonii is native to south africa... but seeing as this is a dream, I can excuse that. Lastly, and perhaps most interestingly, the symbolism of Gerberas in flower language is innocence and purity. Seems quite apt, no?
Oh wow! Thanks for this. Yeah, I'm definitely no expert on flowers. I really appreciate that information. That change is still very interesting. One could view it as the death of innocence (both the game and within Hugo), and that is in line with the game's themes as well as Hugo's journey towards assimilation with the Macula. It definitely still works within the dream and alchemy, although the meaning shifts a bit and becomes more personal. I think I like that better actually. Thanks again! If you see anything else, definitely chime in
These games are two of my absolute favorites, growing up as a middle child I've been able to experience both the protection given by an older sibling and the need to protect a younger sibling. This video did a fantastic job helping me to understand some of the deeper symbolism in the game, amazing job
This was an immensely good watch. I love analytical dives like this. I just finished the game and was looking for additional content to consume-this was just the thing I needed.
51:17 Ohh so thats the reason Hugo (or it in this case) doesnt hold Alicia's hand anymore after this. Damn Anyway, great analysis, watched it 2 times. Hope the best for your channel. Great work!
I'm still riding on the emotional roller-coaster having just finished Requiem a few days ago and went looking for lore videos to see what I might have missed. Coming across this, it's an utterly impressive analysis that goes far deeper and into themes than anything else I've yet to cross -- Plague Tale or not. This was a fantastic watch, wonderfully put together, and so thoughtful to the journey of the characters and Macula alike. Bravo.
Thank you so much for checking it out! Definitely was something I needed to make to resolve how I felt about the series. Hopefully, if they make a third title, we'll have more information to dig into.
Something I love, is playing these amazing games, then finding my people in videos like this. I happened upon this game from the PS+ having really almost no preconception of what it was apart from a few second promo clip of rats on an IGN video. I’ve since played both games, and now re playing requiem. My favourite part about games like this, is playing them, then coming to UA-cam and listening to people more insightful than me, dive into the game that made them really feel something. Amazing work here mate :) thank you for keeping me within the world and those feelings! I’m so glad I played these games
I'm the same way! I love learning about new ways to view a title I enjoyed or think about long after I finished. Plague Tale is definitely a series that has more going on than most people might think. Glad you enjoyed the video! Maybe we'll get another title in the series to ponder 🤔
@@lordjlo817 I just finished the video - thanks for helping me see the game a bit deeper, I definitely wasn't engaged with this level of consideration on my first play through - I've just gotten to the island shrine on my second playthrough and I'm glad it is imbued with this extra meaning now!! Appreciate your work!
Long after finishing the game, I still hear Hugo and Amicia's voices in my head. Such is the impact they had. I miss the journey they went on. It was an epic tale with a heart breaking end. Well done on such an in depth analysis. I agree and felt that is how the macula worked
@@ArcanePath360 I hear that a lot. I was the same way after finishing the series. I needed to work through how I felt so I started digging into the lore. Making this video helped me come to terms with the loss. Great series that I hope continues
@@lordjlo817 Glad I'm not the only one. It's been days and I'm still trying to deal with it. I'm not sure it's helping watching the playthroughs by Charlotte McBurney on Anna's channel (who played Sophia and Amicia). They have hours and hours of streams to go through. And then also doing new game plus myself to try and 100% it and watching all the making of videos etc. I seem to be torturing myself but I can't get enough of those characters and the music and the scenery. Once I'm done I'm going back to playing Innocence through again since I'm getting nostalgic for the French accent, lol. In terms of the series continuing, they were supposed to be making a TV show from it, with a director announced 2 years ago but I've seen no news since. Asobo said if there's enough interest they may make another, and they have announced that they are working on something right now and are hiring, but won't say what.
@@ArcanePath360 They haven't announced the game but they've put up several hiring postings for "the plague team", so it sounds like they are underway. I enjoyed Anna and Charlotte's playthrough. They are both funny and it provided insight to the process of acting out the characters. The composer's playthrough is also worth watching as he focuses on how the music integrates with the story. I thought about replaying both titles, but I have all my footage so if I ever get the itch, I just watch the parts I want to revisit haha
@@lordjlo817 I'm only on chapter 8 with their playthroughs so far. Love those two together, they are such adorable people to see having fun, and it's true, it's very inciteful and I love hearing their anecdotes and the process, the whole thing. I can't get enough. I wish I worked for Asobo. So glad you told me there's another Plague game coming. I saw on their site they were hiring but didn't see it was for that. Next game I'm definitely going to full price it on pre-order. I feel this studio deserves my support. Normally I wait until games have been patched and come down in price abotu a year later (because I'm a cheap ass), but I actually feel bad only paying £6.99 for what I think is the most impactful game on my life ever. PS: Can you link to the composer's playthrough? The music in the game blows me away. It really should have won awards. I know they used the best mics in the world to record it and it'd be neat learning more. Only on my second playthrough am I noticing so many distinct tones and subtle ways it plucks at the heart strings.
Thank you for making this video! I’ve been very surprised to find there isn’t much in the way of in-depth analysis for this series- this video was exactly what I was looking for in terms of a deep dive. Hope you’re well!
Thanks for checking the video out! I had the same thought when I started working on this video last year. For a game that seems to be readily available, there isn't a ton of in-depth analysis out there. Kind of strange... Have a good one! :)
I just finished Requiem a few days ago and am still mulling over the ending. I liked your video, very in-depth! Though I think you might be overinterpreting a few things. As you said yourself: The games have quite a few retcons and plotholes, and the devs did not originally plan for a sequel. So I'm not sure how much deep meaning we can really read into it. For example the untouched bodies in the De Rune estate: I think that's just an empty mystery box abandoned by the devs. What I found very interesting was your clip from the composer, who states that Hugo died shortly after his mother. Does this mean that when he tries to attack the count on the ship, that's just the Macula puppeteering Hugo's body and role-playing as Hugo?
I completely agree. There are definitely inconsistencies between the titles, but I have a feeling Requiem will be the model moving forward for Asobo. It seems the most thought out, which is why most of what I talk about references that game. I tried to tie most of the points I make to that title because Innocence... is a bit all over the place. The composer is careful in is wording around this important moment in the story. "You can tell yourself..." I don't think he means Hugo is actually dead--nothing in the games suggests the Prima Macula can survive in a dead host--but more that Hugo has lost his struggle to the Macula. He's vacant for the rest of the story. He's a shadow of the brightness we've come to expect. We catch glimpses of him (a few moments before the ship and some on the ship), but he's fundamentally changed and can't go back. Once his transformation (his move to citrinitas/rubedo) starts, that's it. He's gone. IMO whether the Count showed up had no bearing on Hugo's eventual fate. The Count accelerated the inevitable.
aren't this video a long one. i actually didn't follow you half of time. but i must say you are incredible, very high quality content. you really delved in, probably more than the writer, while i just touched by thier bond, never thought that much. i can see you truly love this game. i also wish they will continue this series, althogh it does have a complete ending of the de rune siblings. nevertheless, they did leave a big room for sequels in epilogue. it could be in modern time, or with the sister find next carrier and discover more about macula, even a pre sequel about basilius and adelia. all the possibilities
@@alanxyct1648 I agree that the De Rune family's story has run its course. I'd prefer to go back in time to the first plague, but modern could be interesting if handled well. I just hope we get some more answers
It was very heartfelt video to watch. That is some god-tier content level. it is a shame that youtube algorithms don`t recommend this to a bigger number of people so we could share our thoughts about this amazing game. Thanks a lot
Thank you giving it watch! Definitely a great game that I feel is still underrated/underappreciated. Maybe a third game will finally launch the game into the mainstream.
This is one of the most well researched story analyses I've ever seen. Definitely puts my video to shame lol. The dedication to the alchemy angle is both impressive and a surprisingly sturdy interpretation (even if I don't agree) That being said, I have to say that I think there is more malice to the Macula than you give it credit. It consumes everything when given the chance, not just in the end but in the other cities in the game. Whether it can be held to our standards of morality is a different topic but I use the word malice to describe it as I believe it's goal is to harm people, or more specifically eat them. To consume them all. Thus, I believe that the dream sequence is more of a spiritual connection between Hugo and Amicia. I genuinely believe that it is Hugo asking Amicia to kill him. Not the Macula. I also firmly believe that the Macula is a supernatural being rather than alien. It connection to the rats surpass any natural abilities. Again, loved the video! I'm definitely sticking around to see what other stuff you make
Before I reply to some of your points, I want to say: First, thanks for checking out the video! :) Second, I don't necessarily agree with everything I've presented. This video was more of an exploration than anything. I found a fun rabbit hole and dove right in. Malice is a strong word, and I generally associate that more with intent to harm simply for the sake of doing harm--evil, in other words. Even before exploring the alchemy angle, I didn't feel the Macula had malice in its actions. I agree that the Macula has a goal of consumption, but the one big piece of information missing from its lore is the exact nature of the Nebula. Based on alchemy and etymology, I still think the Nebula is a big nest or egg for the Macula--whether that is for an actual birth of the true form of the Macula or more akin to the Phoenix mythology... who knows? If we can definitively answer that question, then we can start down the path of the Macula's true goals. Innocence presents the Macula as more of a disease than entity, and the only real words we get from the Macula are in the underground area after Hugo's metaphysical death. I just can't buy into the Macula being evil based on such little information coming directly from the entity. Not to say we can't judge something solely on actions, but like I said in the video, we wouldn't judge a lion for killing to eat. We don't know if the lion is killing because it loves harming. We can only know that it kills because it needs to. Personally, I don't think the Macula is malicious, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be, and there's definitely evidence to support either conclusion. By "dream sequence" I'm assuming you mean the one at the end of Requiem and not the nightmare sequence in Innocence, so I'll go off of that. I laid out a couple of interpretations of that final "walk of death": Macula manipulating Lucas and Amicia, Hugo pleading with Lucas and Amicia, and Amicia pleading with herself. Those can blend together to different degrees, but for me, I've settled on the final sequence as Amicia convincing herself to end Hugo's life. The alchemical stuff is all there (presented in the video), and the walk presents events where death followed in the siblings' wake. Amicia lived in a self-created delusion for most of the game. Even when she's chasing phoenix statues in the Nebula, we can hear her grasping at straws to keep the dream of saving Hugo alive, that there was some mysterious path they've yet to follow. Hugo states that she put them there, which leads me to think the Nebula is pulling from her own mind and emotions. When she's finally confronted by this in the "walk of death", there's acknowledgment from her. She knew this was the endgame, but did everything she could to avoid it. She's finally convinced herself what needs to be done. At least, that's how I view it. Not right or wrong. That's what makes this ending so interesting; there are a lot of different ways to interpret what happened. We don't even know what Lucas went through! Perhaps, seeing what he dealt with, might add another angle. Anyway. Enough blabbing from me. Thanks again for watching! Cheers!
@@lordjlo817 Genuinely got excited to read this lol. I used the word malice in the lack of a better word as I would agree it's extreme but I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it. Using your analogy for example, while saying a man-eating lion is evil would be reductive, but it's goal is still to end the life of a person. That's more of what I was getting at. As for the other points, I agree that much of this is up to interpretation. Your interpretation is very fascinating even if I don't agree with all the details. Again looking forward to the next video
Duuude! Last entire year I spent listening to APT lore analasis and I thought I knew everything there was to BUT THIS CHANGED EVERYTHING I THINKED ABOUT THE GAME. I want to add that I don't plan to start a youtube chanel or something, but I really want to start analysing games I love myself and I am ,,taking notes" from marvelous people like you and many other!
Thanks! I appreciate the compliment! I decided to make this video only because I didn't see anyone else examining the series this way. Not sure if I'm way off or not, but it was a lot of fun (and labor) to put it together. It at least helped me process the experience of playing these two games
Haven't played Innocence, I jumped straight to Requiem because it was free on PS+ subscription. The story was weirdly great though, until the end of the game you're still left with a million questions about what the Macula is etc. This video helped me understand in a bit better, although we're still speculating...
Yeah... I wish we could get a little bit more information from the games, but I suppose we wouldn't be talking as much about them if they did. I'm sure APT 3 is in the works though
Hello. Just to say I liked your video and have watched all of it! I could feel your passion for both of the games 😊 As a big fan of A Plague Tale univers, I was also devastated and heartbroken at the ending... I needed several weeks to recover and grief this game! As I'm a gamer, I always needed time to recover from a very good storyline game and an emotional one at that. But this one touched me more compared to others I have been playing to. I liked the thoroughness you put in your video. It was all very interesting! Always very nice to hear other fan's thoughts on a game we loved so much. I learned yesterday that a TV serie of A Plague Tale is on it's way! As it is a french game and it is happening in France, the serie will be in french with french actors and all. I live in Belgium so I speak french and I'm so glad the french director, Mathieu Turi, said he will respect the narration and all that is reflecting the story. I really can't wait for it 💛
I hope there will be an international release so all fans can watch the series. I'm very curious about where they take the characters and how far into the existing story it goes
@lordjlo817 Yeah, I hope every fans over the world will enjoy it. And eventhough it is only french language, there will always have the english subtitles for the international release, hopefully 😊 Yes, I can't wait to discover the scenarios and storyline 🙂
Unfortunately I haven't watched this yet, and considering the length, I guess I will never really watch it in one piece. Rather, in several separate sections when I get the time and space. That being said, I gotta ask: does the content of the video concern itself even remotely with speculations for the potential future of this story by the audience, or is it just a video 100% dedicated to attempting to interpret the themes, messages or whatever? It's been almost a year since the release, and since then the community has brought up several proposals among which are various modern day or different era plots, plots based on the Illusion Theory and/or some of its elements, Phoenix Theory, Amicia-solo plots and so on.
I don't directly speculate on the future of the franchise in this video. I did have a section for that (among other topics) but the scope was getting out of hand. Indirectly, the cycle of the Macula plays into an easy possibility of a future game, so in that sense, I graze the idea of what could happen. But if you're looking for a more detailed look as to the future of Plague Tale, this video isn't going to do that for you. This video is really about seeing the Macula, Hugo, Amicia, and the ending through the lens of alchemy with some tangents interspersed. I hope this explains the scope for you better. Cheers for checking it out when you have the time 👍🏻
I just watched your entire video, your ideas seem really great and i love the prespective, also what the actual fuck, how do you only have 192 subs? The writing was great, the editing also, the research that went into it. 10/10 Really loved the game, the story, the design, the writing, tha narrative.. everything was on point, its a masterpiece. It can be interpreted by a milliad of ways, depending on how you felt before the game and what's going on in your life. I had 2 paralells closely resemble the story in the context of hope in my life. (wich i wont detail, who cares) I think this game symbolizes hope.. a hope that realistically doesn't exist. The acceptance that some things are out of your control cannot be changed, and you have to come to terms with it. If i had to summarize in 1 word: Hope. To some unrelated ideas i thought interesting: Idea 1: The game could also represent humanity as a whole, the cyclical nature of hardship and prosperity. War, Plagues, Disasters and all the horrible things that happen should happen to have a brief, but brighter future. What comes after war, plagues and disasters? peace and unity. This is also supported by the symbol of the phoenix, who also goes through hardship to be reborn again. And also what is the most iportant thing in hardship? What gets you throught it all? Love. Just like the love between Amicia and Hugo. ------------------------- Idea 2: (seems like an interesting paralell [its probably too specific to be tha case but eh] ) What else has 4 stages just like the macula, doesn't have a cure, breaks people around you and forces your relatives down the path of acceptance? This might be far-fetched but cancer.. Also the stages of acceptance consists of 5 steps (Amicia has to go through theese to come to terms with the truth) : denial, anger, depression, bargaining, and acceptance Denial: Mainly Amicia Doesn't want to believe that hugo cannot be saved, yet fights tooth and nail. This is mainly the entire first game and the beginning of requiem. Anger: Do you remember when amicia lost it multiple times against the count's men, and went on a rampage? i think it represents anger in the chain. Depression and bargaining: Amicia feels broken, overwhelmed by the things that happened, in some sections about to give up. But somehow she overcomes them (usually through help from others), a new light of hope comes, that pushes her to do the unthinkable, a brief one, before coming to terms with the facts the macula presents. Acceptance: Basically the ending of requiem and the results of the story making her broken, yet she seems like she found herself, on a journey to help the next carrier and protector to come. --------------------- I still have some more ideas but im really bad at writing and its 1 am so yeah :D Theese ideas could be wrong, but if you think about it, any good story can be interpreted in multiples of ways. some might be a bit far-fetched but the most iportant thing is that the story made you think about some topics. and induced emotions. and thats the most important thing. 10/10, cried
There are definitely a lot of ways to interpret this story. Symbols are layered throughout both games, which lend nicely to different analysis methods. Originally, this video contained an entire section (around 6,000 words or so) about Amicia's battle with grief and how it ties to the series as a representation of a terminal illness in a loved one, but I cut all that to maintain length and continuity. I'm a big fan of viewing the series through this lens, and it applies to multiple characters too. In particular, Beatrice struggles with the inevitable death of her son. She is further along in her grief than Amicia, and that's why they clash on several occasions. Again, I made a whole other script for this, but you get the idea. I hope we get another title in the series, but I'm also content with what's presented. Thanks for watching, and have a good one!
This is a wonderful video! I know this is a year later so I don’t know if this comment will get read or appreciated, but this video really made me think in a way a lot of UA-cam videos don’t so I thought I’d share some thoughts I had from your analysis. The homology you drew between the Macula and Amicia as both representing the feminine moon though Citrinitas was really fascinating, especially in relation to Jungian psychoanalysis. I am curious if there is also a connection here to the Freudian/Lacanian branch of psychoanalysis, and if we could also read the macula as repetition compulsion. I am thinking mostly about Lacan’s analysis in “The Seminar on The Purloined Letter” and how the macula forces a repetition that shifts the subject position of the role of protecter, and the shifting role of sacrifice throughout the two games: Beatrice then Amicia and then Hugo/Macula. At first the Beatrice as the mother takes on the role of protecter sacrificing herself in Innocence’s first chapter to the inquisition (or at the very least being captured by it) that leads to Amicia misrecognizing herself in the role of the protector. In Lacan this would be the second position (the Queen in Poe’s story The Purloined Letter or the one who knows but knows not that she is known) and Amicia the third (the servant in Poe and the one who knows that all; that is she knows what Beatrice knows but also that she doesn’t know). This is clear at the beginning because Amicia goes to Beatrice to tell her about the first manifestation of the rats that ate her dog, and Beatrice, while she knows that Hugo has the macula, does not yet know that the plague (i.e., the macula) has progressed. When Amicia takes on the role of the protector she takes on this second position, sacrificing her innocence to save Hugo, but her sacrifice also occurs under the same delusion as Beatrice. Namely, Amicia thinks that the macula can be cured and knows that it is not inevitable. Of course, the reason the macula is dreaded is because it kills a lot of people to create the nebula, which you discuss in the video, but this is also mirrored in Amicia’s killing to protect Hugo. This is how the homology is drawn between the Macula and Amicia: both kill not for the sake of killing but for the sake of some end (one being to protect Hugo and the other to achieve the final stage). You hinted at the fact that the macula kills also so that it can go into dormancy, or so that it can prevent future death which seems to also be Amicia’s motivation for killing. I mean they both kill in oder to save lives. At the end of Requiem you note how Hugo/Macula, after Beatrice dies works to save Amicia instead. This is the third stage of repition: the macula assumes the role of protector and forces Amicia into the role of protectee (symbolized by her giving up and putting out the fire in the nebula) and the way that the macula splits the rats to allow Amicia to approach Hugo. Naturally, the story in Requiem progresses to this point by having us use Hugo to control the rats in order to advance the story. Hugo is becoming the protector role foreshadowing what will happen in the final arc of the story. Essentially, the violent killing that occurs after Beatrice dies, that you say Hugo does willingly mirrors Amicia’s willing killing of the guards at the beginning of Requiem when she is trying to find the nightshade. I read, in a sense, the final two stages of the alchemical process, Citrinitas and Rubedo, as the full cycle of repetition, when the macula fully embodies the Other (the protector role). It casts each game as one cycle of repetition with Innocence being Amicia and Requiem being Hugo. Perhaps, the Phoenix is not just a symbol of the Macula’s eternal recurrence as it finds new hosts, but the repetition complex that already occurs within the story. Again I don’t know if anyone will read this, but I thought I would share my thoughts. Again, wonderful video!
I like that you've included Beatrice in all of this, as I feel she often is overlooked in favor of Amicia, but I would argue Beatrice knows exactly what is happening to Hugo (or at least, a lot more than she lets on) in Innocence. She has an entire laboratory dedicated to alchemy in hopes of curing him and had all the ingredients to make the Sanguinis Itinera; she only lacked the recipe. She and her husband kept Hugo sequestered in his room, much in the same fashion Basilius was by The Order. She states multiple times she's working with The Order to find a cure. She may be mislead by them, but I can't fathom she doesn't understand the gravity and severity of his condition. It's why I make small section discussing how the only reason Beatrice and Amicia are butting heads is they are in different stages of grief and understanding. Beatrice knows her son is doomed because of the knowledge she's gained and the years of keeping close tabs on Hugo. Amicia doesn't know a fraction of what Beatrice does. I would consider whether a Protector role is even real. Personally, I don't think it is. I think it is a title given by The Order as a flattery towards manipulation. It would not be unusual for a family member or close friend to want to protect or cure a sick loved one. That's not special or unique to Hugo. He had many people sacrifice much to keep him alive. Amicia is unique in her fervor and willingness to perform violence, but if the church hadn't attacked the De Rune Estate and if Amicia didn't part ways with her mother; Robert, Beatrice, and Lucas would've been there every step of the way. Circumstances forced Amicia to become violent, but I don't doubt for a second that Robert De Rune would've been equally or even more violent if he wasn't killed in the beginning. I always found the title of Protector strange because, yeah, when you care about someone, you will try to protect them--especially if they are vulnerable in some way. All that said, I do enjoy your theory-crafting here! I thought about bringing in more interpretations of the story, but I decided against muddling the message of alchemy. I feel the games lend themselves visually and otherwise to that more than psychoanalysis. Psychoanalysis can be applied to almost any story without need for grounding within the story, and I find that difficult to parse out in an interesting way for a video. Maybe I'll try my hand at it when I get around to making another video... BUT I like the idea of the two games repeating themselves with varying roles switches, especially the idea of the Macula moving between roles. Anyway, enough of my blabbing.
love you man, you've deep dived alot and it all makes sense, you gave me a deeper meaningful perspective on the entire story and why the game goes the way it goes; also when amicia and lucas go back to their home for the Beatrice laboratory, Hugo's room is not at all touched by the rats, it stays as same as when they leave their house due to search for the hugo in the beginning of the innocence; what could be the reason tho 🤔
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! And there definitely is something to who/what is untouched when returning to the De Rune Estate. What it all means... I'm not sure. Maybe we'll get some answers if there's another game
I really love the video and how much effort you put into it, i also love games where its not all about shooting killing and being the first place, its all in the story and if you have any other games to suggest me that has a really deep and great story like this one let me know!
I guess it depends on what you consider "deep" for a story, so I'll give a few suggestions. If you're wanting emotionally engaging titles that will pull on your heartstrings, I recommend: Final Fantasy 7 (OG, Intergrade, and Rebirth), Final Fantasy 10, The Last of Us, Yakuza Like A Dragon, Nier Automata, Life Is Strange, The Walking Dead (TT series), Tales from the Borderlands, Gone Home, What Remains of Edith Finch, and Red Dead Redemption. If you like the more fantastical side of Plague Tale, Returnal and Hellblade are great choices. I haven't played Hellblade 2 yet but the original is great. Shadow of the Colossus is a good one for that too. If you like games with absurd amounts of symbolism or reference material, I recommend: Death Stranding, the Silent Hill series, Returnal, Final Fantasy 7 Remake and Rebirth, Nier and Nier: Automata, the Xenosaga series and Xenogears. There are plenty more but those are the ones I've played. Some other mentions that have great stories but aren't really in line with Plague Tale vibes: Final Fantasy Tactics, Inside, the Metal Gear Solid series, the Yakuza series, Inscryption, Grandia 1-3, the Final Fantasy series, Chrono Trigger... I could go on 😂 I hope this helps you find a new great game to explore!
@@lordjlo817 wow thank you very much for giving up your time to give me such an ideas, i am gonna try many of them that you mentioned and again your videos are amazing you put so much effort for others, that the kind of human we want! Thank you for everything, you just made my day twice in a row. :))
Excellent video, wow! I loved the Plague Tale series & very much had a path like Amicia's. Having younger siblings myself I was very attached to Hugo & in denial the whole time, hoping chapter after chapter that he might be saved, despite slowly coming to realise that it would never happen... Don't think I've reached Rubedo, though 🤔 On another note, loved your analysis, it's super well structured and very easy to follow, and the points you've made make a lot of sense. It kind of helped me get through the grief of killing Hugo at the end 😥 thank you!!! Subscribed :))
I found Requiem to be a tough game to play since my son is the same age has Hugo. That final scene... yeesh. That was hard. One of the reasons I wanted to make this video was to work through my own thoughts on how the series made me feel. It helped me a lot, so I'm glad I could pass that along to you. Have a good one!
No worries! Good to hear from you as well. I don't plan on going another year between uploads (yeesh). Hopefully, I'll get something up you'll be able to check out
I think the Prima Macula is akin to the Reapers in Mass Effect or the Red Madness in Enderal, a necessary evil during times of change to keep humanity in check.
I'm a fan of this as well, but my only nagging issue with it is how would the Macula know the time was right? Maybe its lifecycle is in rhythm with humanity's growth... I'm very curious what future installments in the series will bring
Before starting this video myself, i want to give my own perspective on what the Prima Macula is. I probably won’t finish the video tonight but it’s looking good so far. My memory is admittedly a little fuzzy as it’s been a while since i’ve played. Starting off I don’t believe the Prima Macula is inherently a negative force. Rather it acts as a part of its host or rather a living being that lives on through others. But why does it manifest in the first place? You may ask. Well i believe it to be one of two things. It’s either a test/gift brought to the young, with the question if humanity has the intelligence and compassion to raise someone possessing such a thing into maturity. That or it’s the embryo of a being with wonderful potential with the goal of one day surviving to adulthood so they could shape the world in unison. This all correlates with the fact that those whom have the Prima Macula active within them have the power to *shape reality itself* as they grow more in tune with it. We witnessed it both first hand from Hugo where the world was nearly destroyed by him from his want of the suffering to end. During this process things from his dreams and nightmares spilled into the world and dreams of others. Not just the rats but the phoenix as well. We get to witness that very bird watch over his and his mother’s grave during the epilogue. There was also the case of the previous host. This child suffered a fate so tragic and painful that it left a very *scar* on the Macula. The rage, sorrow, and fear being so intense from them that even the most recent host felt it by proximity. This very suffering had led to the manifestation of the rats, a reminder of the very things that bit away at the poor child’s flesh as he rotted away from a world that rejected him. Sorry that this was so disjointed. I wrote down my thoughts on this after midnight so the organization of my intent was scewed for my hubris.
Those are some unique ideas. I agree with you about the Macula not necessarily being evil, which I stated in the video, and I also agree that it remembers the pains of its previous incarnations. That second point, I feel, is important to the events of Requiem. However, I disagree on the nature of Hugo's dreams as well the gravesite at the end. I don't think the series presents Hugo's dream as something manifested by him or that his dream affects reality in any meaningful way. The Dream seems fully originated from the Macula. The Nebula definitely affects reality, and one could argue that is a form of dream/nightmare concocted in part by Hugo. I'm not seeing the connection beyond that. Can you explain further? I never assumed the gravesite at the end was for anyone other than Hugo, especially considering how Amicia talks to it. But if you have something that shows otherwise, I'd love to examine that. It could change a few things in my head canon. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I have a few theories for what the next game could be, if it happens. It could be that if the game takes place in the future, the child could be a girl and the protector an adult boy, perhaps a science student who will try to find some answer in relation to what is running through the child's veins. Or in the third game it could be the story of Basilius and Aelia.@@lordjlo817
Thanks for watching! This video was definitely a labor of love. I spent way too long thinking about these games, but they are wonderful in a bittersweet way. Part of me doesn't want there to be a third in the series, but I also trust Asobo to craft something incredible if they decide to go that route at some point.
I haven't played Elden Ring. I'll look that up... *reads the Elden Ring wiki on Outer Gods* I gather the Outer Gods to be deities without direct contact with denizens or the physical world, but can greatly influence decisions or abilities of those who worship them. I could be wrong on that. If that's the case... I wouldn't think the Macula is like that. I say that because the Macula, IMO, has a bit more control once awakened but doesn't seem to have control of when or who it awakens within. There could more going on in the background, but it's hard to say. Although, it does bring up a fun thought experiment: What if the Macula is one of many of its kind? The Macula represents pestilence and maybe another entity represents a different malady or scourge upon humanity. Obviously, that's complete theory-crafting but interesting to think about.
I think the moment where Hugo "died" for me, was when he saw the slavers on the island where it was supposed to be full of nice people. I already knew that things there was too good to be true. But to a child's eyes, their innocence knows hope. That hope was lost, when he lost faith in humanity. It was bitter-sweet, but even Hugo knew his faith, when they were on Sophia's ship. In my opinion, Hugo would've still been alive, if he was just kept in his room from the first game this entire time. He would've been severely sheltered, and infantalized (all the way towards his adult life). But alive... I really hate myself by being "that guy", but Beatrice, Laurentius, Vaudin, heck, in some twisted way, even The Order, might've had the right idea from the beginning.dult life). But alive... I really hate myself by being "that guy", but Beatrice, Laurentius, Vaudin, heck, in some twisted way, even The Order, might've had the right idea from the beginning.
I would argue his innocence was shattered in that moment, but seeing the slavers definitely changed his outlook on humanity an irreversible way--much how the pool in the inner sanctum created doubt as to the true meaning of his dreams. I don't think Hugo would survive staying at home. He would be comfortable for a time, but Innocence shows the Macula was already spreading to the surrounding towns and countryside before Hugo even escaped. He would've live longer, but his quality of life would've been lesser. Although, he also would've killed far fewer people. I also believe Beatrice (or his father) would have killed him (like Amicia does) long before he destroyed everything around him. Beatrice knew what the Macula meant for him and everyone else; Amicia didn't know and that's why his and other's suffering dragged along.
Personally, I don't believe so, but it's very probable as well. I feel like the Macula was recalling the last location it surfaced, and the island imagery was incidental to the deeper message of convergence. But there isn't enough information one way or the other IMO
@@lordjlo817i think it is. macula wants to break hugo, so it could take full control. and the best way to do it is desperation, after chasing a false hope, you get disappointed again and again. that's when you give up. hugo gives up after they found basilius, Sofia said macula really has a way with children. that's when maculas plan succeed
Personally, I think Hugo’s merging with the Macula changed him and gave him an understanding of his situation beyond what he would have normally had, which would explain his strange maturity during the nebula sequence. I think he is controlling the rats, and that whatever was happening at the center of the nebula was not complete. Killing Hugo didn’t complete a cycle, it stopped the Macula from completing whatever it is it has been trying to do. I don’t think it would keep sending tidal waves of rats if it was finished, if the nebula was the final stage of its plan, then it would just stop creating obstacles like the rats and let Amicia through completely unhindered. I think the Nebula is the cocoon, in that giant sphere, things are happening that would have eventually led to something even more devastating to the world.
I can definitely see that perspective and had those same thoughts examining my notes as I crafted the script. And there's no real answer to those issues since we don't know what happened directly after Hugo or Basilius' deaths. Basilius died without the help of anyone (that we know of), so does that mean he also didn't complete the cycle? If so, what's gestating in the "cocoon" beneath him and at the end? Why can't it survive at that point without the host? Does it need more resources? What is the cycle then? What happens to the host when whatever is going on in the "cocoon" is finished? Does the host just die? Get absorbed? If killing Hugo didn't complete/stopped the cycle, what does the phoenix mean? How does it reappear if the phoenix no longer means the cycle is successful? I don't know. I asked myself those questions and couldn't find satisfactory answers, which is what lead to my rabbit hole with alchemy, which, for the record, doesn't answer everything. Just a thought experiment, really. We don't how the rats form either other then those large gestating egg-things, which are obviously not how rats are born. Are they spawned automatically as long as the Macula is active? Are they a conscious effort by the Macula? If so, why doesn't it just spawn wherever it needs them and take what it wants? Why does the host even matter if the Macula can direct and spawn rats at will? Are they even physically there since they evaporate in light? The big question for me through all of it: What's the goal? If the Prima Macula's goal is to birth into the world and cause devastation, then it definitely is evil, which I disagree with. That's why I lean more into the metaphysical and alchemy. It makes more sense to me that the Macula is not of this world, and it needs both spiritual and physical resources to rebirth into its own world. If its goal is domination of some kind, why hasn't it succeeded in the past? Seem like it would be easier to succeed with fewer overall people, less technology available for defense, etc. BUT. I don't have any definitive answers. The series has soooooooo many areas that aren't explained in the slightest, which I enjoy. It means despite everything I've thought about and presented, your ideas are valid too. There's evidence to swing the pendulum of lore to a lot of directions. This video is just one swing in one direction. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
Im not the best in linguistics but genetally in spanish, french and latin there has to be gender concordancy between noun and adjective which is why the femenine wouldve been used for prima macula.
I didn't even know Requiem was a sequel. Only downloaded it because it was free on PS Plus. Absolutely broke me at the end. Now i have to play Innocence
Honestly? No, with one exception. I find the duology wraps up the De Rune story. I don't need to follow Amicia around trying to help the next victim of the Macula. Her story is done IMO. The exception I would want to play is a story apart from these two games. Either something far flung to the future following entirely new people (maybe industrial revolution or even beyond present day), a game following Lucas, or a game following Basilius and Aelia. I would find those interesting and they would let Asobo flex its artistic muscles. How about you?
I like Amicia character, like to know more about her but I have a feeling they should stop there but I don’t know, a plague tale without Amicia is not a plague tale game for me.
I completely understand that. It's kind of why I want to see Asobo try something new instead of a sequel, but I have a strong feeling a third one will be coming.
@@lordjlo817 If anything, I want a third game but focusing on Aelia and Basilius; I think it'd work perfectly, in my opinion. It wouldn't be screwing anything up but instead giving us more information. Lucas's story and the other characters are done. Sure, it'd be cool to see what everyone is up to, but we don't need to; Sophia explained what the others are doing. Lucas is studying, Sophia is focusing on more legal trade, etc. I agree with you. Overall, A third game would be unnecessary and not the same; I would want the game to take place on a different day. It wouldn't have the same feeling, and I can't see it doing too well. It'd be interesting if they did other timelines in Greek. But no, I wouldn'twant it to be modern-day America, let's say.
@@one8494 I'd definitely be interested in that, if only to satisfy my curiosity of what happened to Basilius and how the Order truly behaves. Modern day doesn't interest me much at all. I'd much rather see Asobo tryout more periods like the industrial revolution, ancient times, or far in the future
for as much as i love the games, i hate amicias ending, because, regardless of whatever symbolic meaning ist holds, its simply unbelievable. As in, its simply impossible to believe that a 14 year old, who suffered through all the horrific things she had would just be "Fine" after a year of sitting in the mountains. It would have been a far more believable ending, albeit probably with less symbolic weight, if amicia had deleted herself or was so broken, that it would take a whole third game of deep, and i do in fact meen DEAP soulsearching and psychoemotional work to heal herself.
It's true that she's been through a lot, but I disagree with her being in a good state at the end of the game. Functional doesn't mean she's doing well. Her struggle to leave the mountain is proof of that. I also think it would go completely against her final statement of the game and Hugo's desires if she took her own life. She wants to remember what happened to help prevent the tragedy from repeating. Many real life tragedies lead to powerful motivations for those involved. Personally, I thought the ending did a great job showing how trauma can be difficult to move on from. Her focus on the Macula--even after it was forced to go dormant--shows she can't move on or let go.
Using metaphor explains how the Macula functions: By not using in-universe elements from the story, but by connecting it with our real world. If you connect the Macula with sociopathy and its development in a child's mind, the stages at 4:20 can be seen as stages in the development of a psyche predisposition to become a powerful destructive sociopath when faced with violence and hate from its environment. BTW also the reason why Amicia's plan to bring him far away up on the mountain, away from violent influences, until he was matured enough to control his predisposition ("I hate them all! I kill all of them!") was actually the correct plan, but it was the environment around Amicia and Hugo which prevented that, making both a mirror reflecting the violence and hate around them back into the world - Amicia more specific at those threatening her and her companions as the more matured soul and Hugo being broad and unreflected being the less matured mind.
There's a lot of speculation based on the information presented. I'm not claiming to know anything besides that. I think the openness of this series is what makes it worth talking about. So, yes, you are completely correct; I do a lot of speculation once the groundwork for that speculation is paved. I wish we had more to go off...
Minor correction. You'd use Prima because the subject "macula" is feminine. I like your theory but in romance languages if the subject is feminine than any linking word before it will also be feminine.
It's interesting and impressive. The alchemical metaphors seem to work especially in the ending sequence inside the nebula. I'm wondering though why would you assume that Hugo literally died on La Cuna? If he did, and the Macula was in charge then why would he be so distressed on the way to the docks that the village's destruction was his own doing and "his fault"? Why would he insist on freeing Arnaud? Finally - why would he attack the count? If the Macula's goal was survival, then the count could provide it. The emotional response on the supposed death of Amicia I think proves, Hugo's still there. But what's more troubling to me, that once you assume that Hugo died on La Cuna, then a very important albeit short conversation between Amicia and Hugo loses its impact. The conversation they had on the ship just before the count attacked, when Hugo noticed there's something different in the way he feels, to which Amicia replied, that this is growing up. I think it's a very important scene, which loses all of its meaning if we assume that Macula was already in full control and only manipulating Amicia. Hugo did seem to grow up at that point, and that's why it didn't really strike me as inconsistent that his voice in the nebula was so calm and sage. He has already proven throughout the story, that he's capable of a very mature approach to life and death. After the trauma of his mother's death, he just passed the (nomen omen) threshold, and became an adult. I think it's quite clear that Hugo's "death" hinted by the score (and the composer) wasn't literal - Hugo did not lose his humanity. It's only the child Hugo that died, to make way for a grown up Hugo. So as much as the scene in the nebula was a hallucination it seems probable, that it was in fact Hugo's voice guiding Amicia there. Hugo and Amicia switched roles, because he understood certain truths earlier than she did, and he made peace with it. Amicia still needed guidance, which she got.
IMO Hugo is essentially gone at that critical moment, and all of his unusual mannerisms afterward are the Macula deeply influencing him. I briefly mention the scene on the boat and state there is a twinge of Hugo left, but the point both myself and the composer made is the idea that Hugo is essentially dead at that point. The Macula is in control. Hugo occasionally surfaces in those final scenes between the underground and the boat, but he fully surrendered and there was no going back. I always viewed the boat scene as less Hugo growing up and more him truly feeling the Macula for the first time and the anxiety that must induce knowing it's over. Amicia explains it away, but I can't take Amicia at her word because she's deep in denial about basically everything. As for Arnauld, one could argue either way. Hugo wants to save him. It's a strong emotion and gives Hugo a chance to speak briefly. You could argue the Macula sees him as an asset. Either is fine. Victor is a threat regardless. He wants control of Hugo, which is something the Macula has fought to obtain. I don't think it would view him as safe. It's the reason the Nebula sparks to life. Do or die, so to speak. As for the Nebula, there are a ton of interpretations. For me, the moment Amicia stepped into it, everything inside until the final door, was of her own doing. She placed the statues (as Hugo states), she placed the rat demons, she placed the peoples destroyed in her wake, and she placed the Hugo that talks to her. But as I said in the video, it's easy to argue what Lucas and Amicia see is from their own mind or from the Macula or from Hugo. All of those feed to the end goal of Hugo dying. I don't think one is wrong or right since there's evidence to go for all scenarios. For me, I prefer thinking Amicia grew from her self-examination and Hugo accepted his fate--choosing to save those around him knowing he wouldn't survive. In the end, IMO it doesn't matter what I think about it. There are a ton of ways to look at this game. My original script was about how the entire duology is about terminal cancer. Like I said, there's enough meat on the bones to allow the audience a chance to interpret how they want. If you like Hugo talking to Amicia at the end, nothing wrong with that. Plenty to support that even. I mostly made this video just to spark curiosity. I don't necessarily think it's the be all. Thanks for checking it out
@@lordjlo817 it is a great video and a great interpretation. The amount of work you did and how well you prepared is truly impressive. And what's most important - you did spark a conversation which is what we lack in today's world so much :). I guess then, that your stance on Hugo dying is not as "binary" as I thought. I must have missed the part where you mentioned that his humanity occasionally surfaces. I agree this might be a metaphor about coming to terms with a terminal illness or any other inevitable experience. Still, I don't really buy the part about Macula trying to find a "rest state" or achieve anything else than just further growth. So it's kind of like cancer - it does not need to find any sort of "peace" whatever that might be, it's only there to feed as much as possible until the host dies. And if that's the working hypothesis, then the whole part about Macula manipulating Amicia in the Nebula to kill Hugo doesn't have any foundation. What I think happened is that Macula did specifically show La Cuna to Hugo, so that: 1. He builds up hope, that there is a cure, 2. Discovers by himself what happened to the previous carrier, so that he loses this newly gained hope, 3. Comes to a conclusion, that there's no point in resisting, and it's just better to accept the Macula to avoid the terrible suffering and death of his protector. In my view, it almost succeeded (in no small part thanks to the "bonus" of Beatrice being killed). But what happened next is that Hugo lost himself to the Macula in grief over his mother, but then was brought back by Amicia by the campfire. He was of course changed by then, he lost his innocence, he lost hope, but he did not lose his humanity entirely yet. The fact he was still bothered by the town being ravaged by rats and Arnaud getting executed, and later on by Amicia getting supposedly killed makes me think, he was still Hugo. A lot more mature and disenchanted, but still good at heart. I don't really see any reason for the Macula to "pretend" to be Hugo if he was dead already. What follows is the scene in the Nebula. Lucas even comments that what they will see there are "dreams of a deceived child", so even if they both do experience something different I think it's still a vision created by Hugo's confused mind. Of course the scene where they hold hands is just a vision, but to me it seems like it's a vision created by Hugo as his last gift to his sister and also as his redemption. A gift of wisdom that he achieved earlier than his older sister who was still in denial. That also gives more sense to Amicia's words at Hugo's cairn, where she talks about remembering Hugo's sacrifice (which is his Requiem) - if it wasn't Hugo showing his sister the way, then there was no sacrifice really. Of course this is just my view. I think that as with everything a lot depends on the a priori assumptions you make going into it, because there's no "hard evidence" for these hypotheses. Goddamn what a game, what a story... a true work of art :).
@@kacperiwomatuszewski5395 Honestly, I don't even agree with everything in the video, but I wanted to explore the ideas presented as far as I could. The exploration definitely changed how I thought about the game, I think, for the better. As I stated multiple times throughout it: A lot of it is speculation because we don't have enough information. I also want to say that I think all of your points are valid when viewed through another angle unrelated to alchemy. That's what makes the story worth revisiting. But I do want to point out that viewing the game through a lens of alchemy and viewing the game through a lens of terminal illness are not necessarily compatible nor do they strive to be unless one wants them to. For me, they are two entirely separate concepts. My terminal illness script, which I set aside, didn't really examine the Macula in any meaningful way. I didn't care how the Macula fit; I wanted to explore how the characters behaved to the situation--primarily through the lens of grief surrounding a terminal illness. Amicia and Beatrice in particular are of interest because of the different approaches they take. I've seen these types of people in my life surrounding the death of a loved one. It makes for a neat examination, but I didn't find it as interesting as alchemy. I'll try to explain why I think alchemy explains a lot. However, I do want to point out, as I did in the video, no one outside Asobo knows what the Macula is. We can speculate and present different viewpoints, which is great, but the Macula is inherently unknown. We can paste whatever personality or traits we want on it, and we wouldn't be wrong--we wouldn't be right though. I would say the biggest thing to clarify is this: I don't think the Macula manipulated Amicia or Lucas (or Hugo, if I'm getting down to it). It's a possibility based on alchemy and the myth of the phoenix, but I don't find that as emotionally satisfying nor do I think it helps explain the Macula. If it truly could manipulate people entirely, why wouldn't it take the chance to actually talk when it briefly could? It doesn't really say much of anything, which goes back to it being unknowable and foreign to our world. It also brings up the idea often presented in Lovecraftian stories: Otherworld deities or beings don't even find humanity worthy of addressing. If it could truly manipulate people either inside or outside the Nebula, I think that leaves a gaping hole in the story--why did Basilius die at all? We know the Nebula is gigantic and the reach of the rats large. If it could manipulate people, wouldn't it do so to keep Basilius going? I don't think it can manipulate anyone other than its host, and only in the sense of manipulation through coercion--not outright mind control or something of the like. If the Macula's endgame was unlimited expansion, it does so in a very, very inefficient manner. I truly believe everything in the Nebula is created by Amicia for herself. Yes, Lucas says it's a dream of a deceived child. Which one though? He also says it's a crucible, which implies it is the mixing pot of growth for those who enter the final stages of alchemy. He also states the natural laws no longer apply. That last statement pretty much opens the door to any and all interpretations IMO and gives a lot of leeway to theories like Hugo still being alive, etc. I'm not saying Lucas should be disregarded, but he states several times he only knows what The Order and Beatrice allowed him to know, and it's clear they didn't know much. So, at that moment, does Lucas count as authority? I don't know. I'll take a big grain of salt there. Anyway. Back to Amicia... The Nebula seems to pull her subconscious thoughts forward for her to examine (black to white to yellow to red). Olivier Derivière and Charlotte McBurney both stated that section of Requiem was called "The Nightmare" in the script and designed to mirror Amicia's nightmare sequence in Innocence--a nightmare which preyed on her insecurities and fears surrounding Hugo and her ability to save/protect him. The same music is played. The same points others made to her (Hugo stating he will die, Lucas chastising her impulsiveness and wake of destruction, Beatrice reminding her she's a child, Sophia scolding her about bloodlust, Arnauld physically reminding her she's not invincible...etc.) take form within the Nebula. She is a deceived child--deceived by herself and her sophomoric outlook at the dire situations she gets into. She learns who she is by examining all the parts of herself she's chosen to ignore. Could Hugo be helping in the Nebula? Sure, I don't have a problem with that. But I don't believe he generated what she needed to see and hear. I don't believe that because Hugo doesn't really exist at this point in the story. He even admits that he is now the Macula during the walk of death. That harkens back to the "Is Hugo dead or not?" discussion. He's dead in the sense that the entity of "Hugo" is merging and eventually merged with the Macula (black to white to yellow to red)--the merging of the Sun and Moon, which Lucas speaks on. A piece of Hugo may live on but not as Hugo; he lives on as the Macula. So, if Hugo's talk and walk is his last gift to Lucas and Amicia, is it him doing that or the Macula? My vote would be the merged version of the Macula. (I don't think either of them help, but that's the train I'd follow if I wanted to think that.) I don't think this takes away from his sacrifice that Amicia points out. He's sacrificed plenty. His childhood, his father and mother, he thought his sister died, his future. He willing gives himself to the Macula to save Lucas and Amicia. If he wasn't in that position, I still believe that eventually he would willing give over because he would understand it is better to give in and stop the cycle of violence--with the caveat that someone would be there with him--not to protect him but to protect the world by ending his life. I find Amicia's words at the cairn even more fitting when viewed through alchemy. More than anything else, Hugo sacrificed growth. He will never be grown up. He will never find out who he really is or who he could be. He will never reach his rubedo stage. He sacrificed that so those around him could continue. I find that fitting for him, and it shows Amicia's immense growth since that day. Anyhoo. Enough writing a novel... Lots of different ways to examine this series with most viewpoints slotting easily into the story and lore. I just wish we knew slightly more about the Macula to clear up some things. And just to reiterate: I don't think anything you've said doesn't make sense. Lots of speculation in viewing through alchemy. Lots of speculation viewing through any lens at this point. Just fun to poke around through the lore and story to see what secrets it might be hiding. Cheers
The story is quite literally a tale: An allegory rich with metaphors. That's also why the story and the characters stay with you for long after the experience ended: Allegorical story telling puts elements from our real world in a new context, using metaphors, that represent a certain aspect of our real world - or even multiple at the same time in a new combination. It reflects upon the human condition (see classic "Star Trek") and our ethics and values. So your mind goes back to it, because the story, while phantastical and not of-our-times or our-world, is at its core about a truth - and thus a source for lessons to learn, truths about what it means to be human. "A Plague Tale" teaches a lot about that. Because the story of Amicia and Hugo is about the struggle to stay human, to stay empathic and compassionate in a world of violence and hate - a struggle we all had for a short time or maybe a longer time. Both Amicia and Hugo are in this fight, sometimes together, sometimes apart, and both - due to their different maturity - have a different outcome. Amicia was able to save her soul in the end. Hugo ... was not, when he went "nuclear" (Metaphor!) and turned Marseilles into Ground Zero as a retaliation measure, because he thought his sister was killed, and he gave into his hate and the lust for revenge - and in that process lost the fight for his soul. Which bring in the Prima Macula: As in any allegory, the Macula is not what it seems to be on the surface. It is a metaphor for sociopathy, and the immense damage that happens when an individual with the psychological predisposition becomes a sociopath with an immense destructive force due to childhood experiences with violence. The rats in this are also only on the surface rats: They are a metaphor for this immense destruction a sociopath can cause when he has the tools at his disposal to do so. There is a reason why they behave more like a natural force, flooding the environment more like a tsunami or tornado, because the individual rats are only particles of that force (in Marseilles being a metaphor for the radiation spreading out from a Ground Zero). Other metaphors from my point of view: Amicia stands for child soldiers (like in Africa), forced to kill by adults, or for young soldiers (like women in Ukraine), forced to use lethal force from one day to another to defend themselves, and the inner struggle for their own humanity these individuals face every day. One key aspect of her character through the whole story: Amicia is not who she wants to be. The Count stays for power hungry psychopaths ("we are born to keep the fire going") lusting for Weapons Of Mass Destruction (also a metaphor Hugo stands for) to control the world (see Kim Jong-Un in North Korea or Putin in Russia). Just to name a few. Many of the events, places and characters in "A Plague Tale: Requiem" can be mapped to our real world (see mass religious fanatism on La Cuna with people judging Amicia and Hugo in religious terms, or schizophrenia and maligned narcissism in the Countess also due to childhood trauma, or Sophia being a surrogate mother for Amicia who lost trust in her real mother after she ordered her to care for Hugo and kill for him in "Innocence"). "A Plague Tale" stays with you, because its story and its characters teach you something about yourself and the world we live in today. Something masterful allegory story telling accomplishes. And in that, "A Plague Tale" is a true masterpiece.
Um, I don't think I can agree entirely with your comments: they seem to be about how the game is "good" or a masterpiece *because* it is an allegory (which, technically, can be decisively proven only if the writer comes out and says as much). What rubs me is that you seem to ignore that allegories generally tend to be a divisive topic in writing discussions nowadays, especially among people who are well-versed in Tolkien and endorse his (to my knowledge, pretty popular) views. What if someone comes in, plays the game, interprets it a certain way that he finds himself personally disagreeing with and starts disliking the game as a whole because of it, only to be then told by others that he dislikes it because he "didn't understand it"? See what I'm getting at? Such instances I can imagine are very annoying to put up with. If it's truly meant to be allegorical, then it's almost inevitably didactic and lecture-like, which is a very risky direction, almost certain to not be liked universally.
That is an interesting interpretation, but I haven't seen anything from the creators suggesting A Plague Tale is allegorical to anything current like nuclear weapons or modern child soldiers. I'm also failing to see the connections within the text itself without bringing in a lot of external baggage. Allegories typically are hidden meanings covering an entire text that only become apparent by either intense study or direct statement from the author, such as George Orwell's works. They are usually topical to the time period and/or reference a specific culture or incident. And while I do find lots of symbolism and metaphor throughout both games, I think it is a stretch to overlay modern politics in this instance. The games just don't seem to support that. It's true they say a lot about various aspects of living like grief, religious fanaticism, PTSD, revenge, etc. But I feel that is why they are relatable--not because they are allegorical to modern conflicts and politics. One can apply those lessons and emotions to modern examples, but that doesn't mean the games represent those examples. Godzilla is another great example of a good allegory, and there are internal and external sources that confirm it. A Plague Tale doesn't seem to have that. Some of what you say makes sense within the text (Sophia's relationship, for example), but stating something represents something else doesn't make it so. If you have interviews from the writer/director showing these leanings, I'd be very interested in reading them, and I'd gladly change my stance of the texts with that information.
@@lordjlo817 @YTuseraL2694 Presenting an alternative/extended interpretation of a story, especially as a reaction to an interpretation itself, is not a dismissal but a response to the invitation to engage in a conversation. If a conversation - the social aspect of this media BTW - is not wanted: The comment section can always be disabled. Also: It is quite a strawman to discredit my contribution by accusing it of valuing the story because it can be seen as allegorical after the text provided several arguments in favor instead of just claiming it. It seems to me, someone is projecting his motivation to discredit others providing an alternative perspective onto me instead of engaging with its content. Also: A story does not need the writer to explicitly state that it is allegorical in order for it to be interpreted as such. Allegory is open to interpretation by readers and scholars even if not directly indicated by the author. Allegory is a technique where elements of a work can symbolize or represent other ideas/concepts, often in a way that invites multiple possible meanings. Authors may deliberately include allegorical elements without calling explicit attention to them, leaving room for analysis. Readers can discern allegorical interpretations by analyzing characters, events, settings for symbolic significance beyond a literal level. Allegory can be unintended if readers identify symbolic themes/parallels not necessarily planned by the writer. Literary analysis considers both intended and possible unintended allegory. Writers have limited control over all interpretations, as readers bring their own knowledge/perspectives. Definitive authorial intent is not required for finding allegory. If a work lends itself to a layer of symbolic meaning and there is evidence in the text, an allegorical reading can be reasonably assessed even without author confirmation.
Here the strong metaphorical possibilities in interpreting Hugo's control of the rats as representing the development and effects of sociopathy in a child due to their environment: Hugo grows up in a world of violence, fear, persecution and loss (death of parents). This type of traumatic upbringing could foster sociopathic traits. His power awakens and grows each time he experiences emotional distress/trauma (mother's death, sister in danger). This parallels how sociopathy may emerge from an inability to process emotions healthily. When fully merged with the Macula, he feels no empathy and seeks destruction for its own sake. Like a sociopath disconnected from normal human emotions and morality. His commands unleash uncontrollable chaos and carnage, mirroring how a sociopath in a position of authority/influence could cause massive harm due to their impaired conscience and lack of restraint. Others fear and try to constrain his power due to its threat, just as sociopathic traits are both demonized and yet exploited by authoritarian institutions. In the end, his own sister must kill him to protect others, representing sociopathy as a condition that can negatively impact both self and society if left unchecked. So in this interpretation, Hugo's storyline serves as a profound metaphor for how sociopathy may gestate in a troubled childhood, and the immense destruction that could follow if such a mindset gains access to networks of control over others. It acts as a critique of societies that breed such disorders. @@lordjlo817
Viewing the Prima Macula illness as a metaphor for a child's predisposition toward developing sociopathic traits: The Macula lies dormant in Hugo's blood from birth, much like sociopathic wiring may exist in some from an early age due to genetic/neurological factors. External triggers (thresholds) cause the Macula to progressively emerge throughout Hugo's life. Similarly, environmental influences can activate/exacerbate innate sociopathic tendencies over time. Hugo struggles against the Macula's corrupting influence trying to dominate his mind/body. This parallels the internal fight sociopathic children face as underlying features clash with their humanity. When the Macula fully asserts control, Hugo's caring/empathic nature disappears. Like sociopathy eclipsing normal human compassion/conscience untreated. Beatrice works to counter the Macula's effects through concoctions, mirroring how therapy/support aims to manage sociopathic traits. Ultimately, the Macula proves very difficult to suppress, much as severe sociopathy can be highly intractable without addressing root causes. So the metaphor suggests children may inherit a genetic or developmental predisposition leaving them vulnerable to sociopathic outcomes depending on environmental and intrapsychic influences during maturation. It portrays the complexity of nature vs nurture at play in shaping the mind.@@lordjlo817
@@Cod-w1s The changing of a woman's hairstyle is a well-established trope in literature and media, so you're totally right on that front. Short hair or the cutting of hair often represents renewal or rebirth. In Amicia's case, she's staying the next phase of her life and has found her true self.
As someone who has taken care of a loved one on their journey through cancer and death, I really identified with many aspects of this game. How Hugo accepts his fate and is calm, how Amicia fights against authority to take care of her brother, and how she herself finally accepts the only possible outcome - this game seems like a parable of our modern day journey through disease and acceptance.
I couldn't agree more. I've been there too, and my first script addressed this theme of critical/terminal illness. I think that's why I have a lot of sympathy for their mother, who tried to do her very best using the more conventional means available to her, but gets undercut by her well-meaning (albeit, in denial) daughter.
There are a lot of layers to the story that I think get glossed over by the supernatural elements.
This video needs way more exposure. The end of requiem destroyed me as while playing both innocence and requiem my son was the same age as Hugo, so i felt a real need to protect him. This video had an amazing explanation and gave me a small feeling of closure. Thank you for making this
I'm glad I could help! I made this video pretty much because I needed closure as well. Researching really helped me with that.
And yeah, playing Requiem with my son at the same age as Hugo made it hit especially hard. I completely understand how you feel. 😞
Same @@lordjlo817
Hugo dying right after Beatrice makes that final walk and conversation between Amicia and "Hugo" make so much more sense. When I first played the game, I was taken aback at how much older "Hugo" seemed mentally; he felt much older than his age. Through your analysis, it's obvious now that it's the ageless Macula using Hugo's form and the siblings' bonds to lead Amicia to finish its cycle.
It makes sense to me as well, but I can see the argument that the whole experience has aged him beyond his years. Personally, I think Hugo in the death walk is a projection of Amicia, I also love how the series can be interpreted in many ways
I@@lordjlo817I think the developers said somewhere in January that the illusion theory wasn't actually what happened. But I saw it in Reddit so it might not be real.
@@booboones3093 I'm surprised they would respond to that. Seems like they'd want to keep the mystery alive until they make a sequel. I don't think the illusion theory makes sense, but I know a good chunk of people enjoy it.
Your analysis is deep but what really elevates this video is your writing. You’re a fantastic writer my friend. I wish you nothing but success. You deserve it. Whatever you do, don’t stop writing. The views will come.
Thank you for the compliment and words of encouragement!
I finished requiem yesterday and now I saw this video I gotta say amazing I can definitely see all your hard work and it's a shame it doesn't have more exposure
Thank you! It definitely took a long time to put together, so I'm glad you enjoyed it
I could be wrong, but I think that the thresholds represent the completion of each step of the Magnum Opus:
-Nigredo covers pretty much the entire first game, as Hugo is surrounded by fear, darkness, and despair. Passing the first threshold would be the completion of this step, shown by Hugo accepting the rats' desire to be used by him.
-During the 6 months interim, Hugo did pass the unknown number of thresholds between the first, and the 'last'. My guess is that past the first threshold, the spread was inevitable, but slow and safe. As the rats were already getting what they wanted, they had no reason to disobey Hugo and remained dormant... but never too far. They were always close, should he need them. We can consider this the Albedo stage.
-And he did use them. In the beekeeper castle, Hugo used the rats, and essentially started his Citrinitas stage. As the fear of ruining another home kept rising within him, the Macula spread to almost trying to fight for control within Hugo. The rats started to disobey Hugo as a part of his subconscious now wanted them to start preparing the Nebula, while giving Hugo his dreams. It would soon be time.
This is when the Order decided to condemn and imprison Basilius(and Hugo), not realizing what they would unleash. As they gave up at this point, they assumed that this was the 'last' threshold. Little did they know, that's what set the stage for the real last threshold.
-Cintrinitas ended with Beatrice's death. Now the Macula was able to exert itself over Hugo, trying to merge the two into one. But Amicia snapped him back, albeit, this was the last time he could ever snap back.
-Hugo accepted the Macula in Marseille, effectively completing the irreversible Rubedo stage, and starting the Nebula. The Macula became the consciousness, while Hugo was pushed to the subconscious. It is in this position that Hugo started to interfere with the Macula, similar to how it interfered with him, thus allowing Amicia and Lucas to get close enough to kill him/it. Hugo mentioned that trying to force the rats to do something they don't want hurts him, so I imagine his twitching on the tree to be the pain of letting you get close enough.
Now, as for the Nebula, one interpretation I have is that it is the blending of the macrocosm with the microcosm. In alchemy, to perform a process, you would need to perform it within both at the same time - the external physical, and the internal spiritual. The Crucible was going for some kind of transmutation which could border on cosmic horror. The end result would be the Macula free from its human prison.
To add to this, it is possible that the Macula was in such a state to begin with, but a group of alchemists managed to contain it within their own bloodlines. Perhaps this was the Great Break; one of the remaining mysteries from this story.
The fact that hermetic or psychological alchemy can be used in a variety of ways, like you're suggesting with Hugo, is what drew me to the idea. It is very flexible to different interpretations.
I really like the idea of ancestral alchemists successfully containing the Macula within their own bloodline. It makes a lot more sense than having random families contract it. I still don't care for the Macula existing in blood at all (I'm more of fan of it being a cosmic horror), but with your explanation, I can at least understand it a bit better.
Great ideas!
This is one of the greatest videos I have ever seen on UA-cam. Both these games are something else...
Thank you for the compliment! I really appreciate your time in checking this video out
It’s not fair! They deserved to live a happy long life after everything they’ve been through!
Thank for your analysis, it’s definitely insightful and informative, but I wish we could all close the game and know those two will live happily ever after…
It definitely would be nice to see them in a happy life, but I suppose, if the games ended that way, would we be talking about it as much? There's definitely more intrigue and discussion when the creators are willing to press an issue the player doesn't necessarily want.
Making me, the player, pull out the sling and target Hugo has a huge impact on how I view the story overall. If the game ended happily... I'm not sure I'd care as much. I certainly wouldn't have made this video LOL
All that said, my heart would prefer them to be happy, but from a storytelling perspective, the game suffers.
Thanks for watching!
@@lordjlo817 true
I can’t describe how much I enjoyed your tangent. Using alchemy to explain not only the Macula and it’s motives but how it impacts the narrative, especially Amicia and Hugo was so insightful. Don’t get me started on that ending - Your interpretation was impeccable to what I’ve been trying to understand since I finished Requiem. Thank you!
I'm glad you got something out of my analysis! Ever since I finished Requiem, I knew there was more going on beneath the surface. Not saying I'm right or understand everything, but there were too many symbols and signs to ignore.
And yeah... that ending is filled with emotion and symbolism. It's what got me interested in making this video.
Thanks for watching! 😄
Welp. Here it is. The single best Plague Tale video on this entire platform. Biggest of bravos to you - it's plain to see how much thought, love and effort went into the creation of this. It's exceptionally detailed, explained and well-argued. I don't think I could've ever arrived at these conclusions myself, but I find myself in wholehearted agreement. I think you've got everything here spot on and it's nothing shy of an extraordinary piece of work. Don't apologize for the video being 'too long' or 'too deep,' this is exactly the type of super high-value content I love and that I think the gaming industry needs more of as a whole. Man, I just can't get over how awesome this was. Nice work. I'll check out more from your channel and I'd eat up anything else you have about Plague Tale. Thank you for this.
Wow thank you for the compliment! ☺️ It definitely was a lot of work putting this together so I'm happy to hear you enjoyed it!
This series diesnt have as nearly big of a fan base as it should 😭 Thank you for making this video! The macula was such a mysetious aspect of the game and I love seeing and hearing other theroies about it!
Thanks for watching! 😁
I feel the same way! This series STILL hasn't garnered the acclaim it deserves. I feel gameplay might be off-putting to a general audience, but the stories are a lot more interesting than it lets on.
I'm hoping analysis like this might open the door to people on the fence. Either way, I really hope they make a third game. What that would entail... lots of directions they could take. 🤔
I feel that your video needs way more exposure and it was a pleasure enjoying every single moment of it. Well, firstly I’d like to share that your content is amazing, the video is very well elaborated and the depth of the facts and contents showed throughout the analysis was able to answer questions and fill some “plot holes”. Of course, those are mainly theorical but makes absolute sense. Also, I’d like to share that I regret not playing this game earlier, I don’t know why it didn’t catch my attention back in 2019, and just in 2024 I gave it a chance and it was the best experience I’ve ever had in a video game (even after playing those “AAA” games like The Last of Us, God of War…). I laughed, I cared, I was tense and (eventually) cried.
Looking back to all of the content you presented during the video, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve finished the games twice (both Innocence and Requiem) and I wasn’t able to relate to some alchemy concepts - like Nigredo, Albedo, Citrinitas and Rubedo. It truly enhances the experience and brings multiples perspectives on what is happing and why. Other elements like the music of the game changing according to the situations and giving us the opportunity to empathize with Hugo’s feelings and challenges regarding the Prima Macula or the rage and desperation of Amicia giving all she has in order to save her little brother. I don’t want to extend too much, but I think the game is a masterpiece in terms of story, character development, plot, soundtrack etc. Also, all the characters presented to us - excluding Vitalis - had an important role during our journey (Robert, Arthur, Melie, Rodric, Lucas, Beatrice, Arnauld, Sophia etc).
But one thing kept me up at night and makes me think constantly about this story: Amicia. I’ve seen plenty of “reviews” regarding both games and I realized that she receives a lot of harsh criticism and makes me a little bit emotional when I look back to what she went through. With that said, she saw clearly her father being killed by Nicholas, her house being dominated by the inquisition and the rats - “controlled or not by Hugo” -, lost every single family member remaining (even that her mother’s death is a consequence of her denial and poor decision making), but she is still a teenager with 15 years old. Of course she will commit mistakes, as she is in a extreme situation where the only objective is to “heal/save” her brother and try to rebuild her life with Beatrice, Lucas and Hugo. And she’s badass dealing with those that slows them down. Even after killing a lot of soldiers, I cannot see any malice or “joy” in her actions as she is just scared. Once again, it’s my opinion, not necessarily an absolute truth. But I think Amicia is judged a way too harsh comparing to the all situations she had to deal “alone” - even in delusion or denial.
I swear I’m finishing (sorry for the extension it took). The last thing I wanted just to share and “talk” - there’s no right or wrong, just perspectives - is about the level of consciousness of Hugo after Beatrice’s death. Indeed, it makes total sense to interpret that he died at that moment - as the productor said and others - but I don’t know, something in my guts still thinks that he wasn’t 100% gone at that moment, he had a little bit left and not just some “reflexes” (or the product of the symbiosis/fusion between him and the Macula) of the Prima Macula interacting with the situation - like Amicia being severely injured by the arrow or the will of saving Arnauld from execution. I guess that somehow Amicia was able to bring back a tiny piece of consciousness from Hugo (now being controlled by the Macula) at that specific moment at the bonfire and gave us two more genuine moments and not necessarily “guided” or “manipulated” by the Prima Macula. But definitely, in the Nebula, Amicia was hallucinating/dreaming and convincing herself to end her and Hugo’s suffering in order to finish the cycle and get that “rest” and “healing” she was always claiming.
I am optimistic that Asobo will give us another game - probably following Amicia’s and Hugo’s footsteps - as the last scene of Requiem is very interesting showing a newborn baby carrying the Macula. It seems that it happens between the XIX - XX century. But, unfortunately we will have to wait in order to confirm. Well, that’s basically it! I’m a big fan of your content JLO and sorry if my English is not that good! :)
Quite the response! 😁
Amicia is definitely the driving force of the games and makes some poor choices. But as you said, she's a child. It's expected for her to make mistakes--especially given the dire circumstances she's in. As much flak as Amicia gets, I feel Beatrice also is unliked a bit unfairly within the larger community. She is dealing with an impossible situation that no parent would be prepared for.
As for Hugo, I'm guessing my video doesn't explain the position well enough, as you're not the first to say Hugo is still around after his "death". I do say there is probably a vestige of Hugo remaining up until the Nebula, but the point I tried to make is from his mother's death until the Nebula, Hugo's date is sealed and he sharply declines. In my mind, Hugo is but a fleeting shadow of his former self at that point; he's dead in all but physicality.
Anyway. I'm glad you got something out of the video. I've enjoyed reading all the different takes in comments! I hoped putting this out might spark discussion so mission accomplished I suppose!
Your hard work making this video made me re-live the story from another perspective all over again, amazing job!
@@sQubanaut Thank you so much!
@@lordjlo817 Right back at you - while rest of us just sit in a void after a great game is finished you restlessly work to squeeze more juice out of it. :D Hopefully there will be another PT soon to unravel more of the story.
@@sQubanaut I'm hopeful a third part will add to the overall story rather than rehash or play for sentimentality. There's a lot to play with and it would be easy to slide back into a game with big emotional impact without shaping the lore of the series
Very cool video (haven't finished it yet, but I will), but I've got one small thing to say as a professional, trained gardener. The flowers in hugo's dream are not poppies, even though the huge field/hill covered in red makes it look like they are, and I feel like they are meant to be poppies. but they're not. Poppies have sort of a tulip shape, where they extend upwards from the centre, kind of cradling it in a sort of cup. They also have much broader and fewer petals. If you look closely at the flowers, they have kind of a flat shape, like daisies, with long, narrow petals. This is very typical of flowers in the Asteraceae family (sunflowers, daisies, aster. It's the basic flower shape a kid would draw). But if you look even more closely, you'll see that in that scene there are two different types of flowers (whether just different varieties or different genuses), one with a yellow centre and petals that are a bit tighter spaced, and one with a black centre and looser spacing of the petals (if you want to interpret something with Nigredo and... whatever the yellow one was into this, feel free).
Now, identifying Asteraceae is tricky, especially in video games where plant textures are vague at best, but I'm reasonably sure these flowers are Gerbera daisies, specifically the red Gerbera jamesonii, which is the ancestor of modern cultivated Gerberas. If you google them and look at a screenshot from Hugo's dream close up, you can see the similarities. The flower heads, the bare stem going down to the ground, and when I examined them in photo mode I was able to make out what I think is the lobed leaves that really set Gerberas apart from other plants in the family. Gerberas also come in both yellow and dark centred varieties, so that could explain the different textures in the game. The only problem with this is that Gerbera jamesonii is native to south africa... but seeing as this is a dream, I can excuse that.
Lastly, and perhaps most interestingly, the symbolism of Gerberas in flower language is innocence and purity. Seems quite apt, no?
Oh wow! Thanks for this. Yeah, I'm definitely no expert on flowers. I really appreciate that information.
That change is still very interesting. One could view it as the death of innocence (both the game and within Hugo), and that is in line with the game's themes as well as Hugo's journey towards assimilation with the Macula. It definitely still works within the dream and alchemy, although the meaning shifts a bit and becomes more personal. I think I like that better actually.
Thanks again! If you see anything else, definitely chime in
These games are two of my absolute favorites, growing up as a middle child I've been able to experience both the protection given by an older sibling and the need to protect a younger sibling. This video did a fantastic job helping me to understand some of the deeper symbolism in the game, amazing job
This was an immensely good watch. I love analytical dives like this. I just finished the game and was looking for additional content to consume-this was just the thing I needed.
Appreciate that! I did this research because I wanted to help myself recover from the ending 🥹👍🏻
51:17 Ohh so thats the reason Hugo (or it in this case) doesnt hold Alicia's hand anymore after this. Damn Anyway, great analysis, watched it 2 times. Hope the best for your channel. Great work!
@@LeoCharles Appreciate that. Glad you got something from this!
this video simply needs to get more views, amazing analysis and theorys.
Thanks, friend! Glad you enjoyed it
I'm still riding on the emotional roller-coaster having just finished Requiem a few days ago and went looking for lore videos to see what I might have missed. Coming across this, it's an utterly impressive analysis that goes far deeper and into themes than anything else I've yet to cross -- Plague Tale or not. This was a fantastic watch, wonderfully put together, and so thoughtful to the journey of the characters and Macula alike. Bravo.
Thank you so much for checking it out! Definitely was something I needed to make to resolve how I felt about the series. Hopefully, if they make a third title, we'll have more information to dig into.
Something I love, is playing these amazing games, then finding my people in videos like this. I happened upon this game from the PS+ having really almost no preconception of what it was apart from a few second promo clip of rats on an IGN video. I’ve since played both games, and now re playing requiem. My favourite part about games like this, is playing them, then coming to UA-cam and listening to people more insightful than me, dive into the game that made them really feel something. Amazing work here mate :) thank you for keeping me within the world and those feelings! I’m so glad I played these games
I'm the same way! I love learning about new ways to view a title I enjoyed or think about long after I finished. Plague Tale is definitely a series that has more going on than most people might think. Glad you enjoyed the video! Maybe we'll get another title in the series to ponder 🤔
@@lordjlo817 I just finished the video - thanks for helping me see the game a bit deeper, I definitely wasn't engaged with this level of consideration on my first play through - I've just gotten to the island shrine on my second playthrough and I'm glad it is imbued with this extra meaning now!! Appreciate your work!
Long after finishing the game, I still hear Hugo and Amicia's voices in my head. Such is the impact they had. I miss the journey they went on. It was an epic tale with a heart breaking end.
Well done on such an in depth analysis. I agree and felt that is how the macula worked
@@ArcanePath360 I hear that a lot. I was the same way after finishing the series. I needed to work through how I felt so I started digging into the lore. Making this video helped me come to terms with the loss. Great series that I hope continues
@@lordjlo817 Glad I'm not the only one. It's been days and I'm still trying to deal with it. I'm not sure it's helping watching the playthroughs by Charlotte McBurney on Anna's channel (who played Sophia and Amicia). They have hours and hours of streams to go through. And then also doing new game plus myself to try and 100% it and watching all the making of videos etc. I seem to be torturing myself but I can't get enough of those characters and the music and the scenery. Once I'm done I'm going back to playing Innocence through again since I'm getting nostalgic for the French accent, lol.
In terms of the series continuing, they were supposed to be making a TV show from it, with a director announced 2 years ago but I've seen no news since. Asobo said if there's enough interest they may make another, and they have announced that they are working on something right now and are hiring, but won't say what.
@@ArcanePath360 They haven't announced the game but they've put up several hiring postings for "the plague team", so it sounds like they are underway.
I enjoyed Anna and Charlotte's playthrough. They are both funny and it provided insight to the process of acting out the characters. The composer's playthrough is also worth watching as he focuses on how the music integrates with the story.
I thought about replaying both titles, but I have all my footage so if I ever get the itch, I just watch the parts I want to revisit haha
@@lordjlo817 I'm only on chapter 8 with their playthroughs so far. Love those two together, they are such adorable people to see having fun, and it's true, it's very inciteful and I love hearing their anecdotes and the process, the whole thing. I can't get enough. I wish I worked for Asobo.
So glad you told me there's another Plague game coming. I saw on their site they were hiring but didn't see it was for that.
Next game I'm definitely going to full price it on pre-order. I feel this studio deserves my support. Normally I wait until games have been patched and come down in price abotu a year later (because I'm a cheap ass), but I actually feel bad only paying £6.99 for what I think is the most impactful game on my life ever.
PS: Can you link to the composer's playthrough? The music in the game blows me away. It really should have won awards. I know they used the best mics in the world to record it and it'd be neat learning more. Only on my second playthrough am I noticing so many distinct tones and subtle ways it plucks at the heart strings.
Thank you for making this video! I’ve been very surprised to find there isn’t much in the way of in-depth analysis for this series- this video was exactly what I was looking for in terms of a deep dive. Hope you’re well!
Thanks for checking the video out! I had the same thought when I started working on this video last year. For a game that seems to be readily available, there isn't a ton of in-depth analysis out there. Kind of strange...
Have a good one! :)
I just finished Requiem a few days ago and am still mulling over the ending. I liked your video, very in-depth! Though I think you might be overinterpreting a few things. As you said yourself: The games have quite a few retcons and plotholes, and the devs did not originally plan for a sequel. So I'm not sure how much deep meaning we can really read into it. For example the untouched bodies in the De Rune estate: I think that's just an empty mystery box abandoned by the devs.
What I found very interesting was your clip from the composer, who states that Hugo died shortly after his mother. Does this mean that when he tries to attack the count on the ship, that's just the Macula puppeteering Hugo's body and role-playing as Hugo?
I completely agree. There are definitely inconsistencies between the titles, but I have a feeling Requiem will be the model moving forward for Asobo. It seems the most thought out, which is why most of what I talk about references that game. I tried to tie most of the points I make to that title because Innocence... is a bit all over the place.
The composer is careful in is wording around this important moment in the story. "You can tell yourself..." I don't think he means Hugo is actually dead--nothing in the games suggests the Prima Macula can survive in a dead host--but more that Hugo has lost his struggle to the Macula. He's vacant for the rest of the story. He's a shadow of the brightness we've come to expect. We catch glimpses of him (a few moments before the ship and some on the ship), but he's fundamentally changed and can't go back. Once his transformation (his move to citrinitas/rubedo) starts, that's it. He's gone. IMO whether the Count showed up had no bearing on Hugo's eventual fate. The Count accelerated the inevitable.
aren't this video a long one. i actually didn't follow you half of time. but i must say you are incredible, very high quality content. you really delved in, probably more than the writer, while i just touched by thier bond, never thought that much. i can see you truly love this game. i also wish they will continue this series, althogh it does have a complete ending of the de rune siblings. nevertheless, they did leave a big room for sequels in epilogue. it could be in modern time, or with the sister find next carrier and discover more about macula, even a pre sequel about basilius and adelia. all the possibilities
@@alanxyct1648 I agree that the De Rune family's story has run its course. I'd prefer to go back in time to the first plague, but modern could be interesting if handled well. I just hope we get some more answers
It was very heartfelt video to watch. That is some god-tier content level. it is a shame that youtube algorithms don`t recommend this to a bigger number of people so we could share our thoughts about this amazing game. Thanks a lot
Thank you giving it watch! Definitely a great game that I feel is still underrated/underappreciated. Maybe a third game will finally launch the game into the mainstream.
I really like this more scientific approach of a lore analysis. Great video!
Thanks! I'm glad you like it!
This is one of the most well researched story analyses I've ever seen. Definitely puts my video to shame lol. The dedication to the alchemy angle is both impressive and a surprisingly sturdy interpretation (even if I don't agree)
That being said, I have to say that I think there is more malice to the Macula than you give it credit. It consumes everything when given the chance, not just in the end but in the other cities in the game. Whether it can be held to our standards of morality is a different topic but I use the word malice to describe it as I believe it's goal is to harm people, or more specifically eat them. To consume them all. Thus, I believe that the dream sequence is more of a spiritual connection between Hugo and Amicia. I genuinely believe that it is Hugo asking Amicia to kill him. Not the Macula.
I also firmly believe that the Macula is a supernatural being rather than alien. It connection to the rats surpass any natural abilities.
Again, loved the video! I'm definitely sticking around to see what other stuff you make
Before I reply to some of your points, I want to say: First, thanks for checking out the video! :) Second, I don't necessarily agree with everything I've presented. This video was more of an exploration than anything. I found a fun rabbit hole and dove right in.
Malice is a strong word, and I generally associate that more with intent to harm simply for the sake of doing harm--evil, in other words. Even before exploring the alchemy angle, I didn't feel the Macula had malice in its actions. I agree that the Macula has a goal of consumption, but the one big piece of information missing from its lore is the exact nature of the Nebula. Based on alchemy and etymology, I still think the Nebula is a big nest or egg for the Macula--whether that is for an actual birth of the true form of the Macula or more akin to the Phoenix mythology... who knows? If we can definitively answer that question, then we can start down the path of the Macula's true goals.
Innocence presents the Macula as more of a disease than entity, and the only real words we get from the Macula are in the underground area after Hugo's metaphysical death. I just can't buy into the Macula being evil based on such little information coming directly from the entity. Not to say we can't judge something solely on actions, but like I said in the video, we wouldn't judge a lion for killing to eat. We don't know if the lion is killing because it loves harming. We can only know that it kills because it needs to. Personally, I don't think the Macula is malicious, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be, and there's definitely evidence to support either conclusion.
By "dream sequence" I'm assuming you mean the one at the end of Requiem and not the nightmare sequence in Innocence, so I'll go off of that.
I laid out a couple of interpretations of that final "walk of death": Macula manipulating Lucas and Amicia, Hugo pleading with Lucas and Amicia, and Amicia pleading with herself. Those can blend together to different degrees, but for me, I've settled on the final sequence as Amicia convincing herself to end Hugo's life. The alchemical stuff is all there (presented in the video), and the walk presents events where death followed in the siblings' wake. Amicia lived in a self-created delusion for most of the game. Even when she's chasing phoenix statues in the Nebula, we can hear her grasping at straws to keep the dream of saving Hugo alive, that there was some mysterious path they've yet to follow. Hugo states that she put them there, which leads me to think the Nebula is pulling from her own mind and emotions. When she's finally confronted by this in the "walk of death", there's acknowledgment from her. She knew this was the endgame, but did everything she could to avoid it. She's finally convinced herself what needs to be done.
At least, that's how I view it. Not right or wrong. That's what makes this ending so interesting; there are a lot of different ways to interpret what happened. We don't even know what Lucas went through! Perhaps, seeing what he dealt with, might add another angle.
Anyway. Enough blabbing from me. Thanks again for watching! Cheers!
@@lordjlo817 Genuinely got excited to read this lol.
I used the word malice in the lack of a better word as I would agree it's extreme but I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it. Using your analogy for example, while saying a man-eating lion is evil would be reductive, but it's goal is still to end the life of a person. That's more of what I was getting at.
As for the other points, I agree that much of this is up to interpretation. Your interpretation is very fascinating even if I don't agree with all the details. Again looking forward to the next video
Duuude! Last entire year I spent listening to APT lore analasis and I thought I knew everything there was to BUT THIS CHANGED EVERYTHING I THINKED ABOUT THE GAME. I want to add that I don't plan to start a youtube chanel or something, but I really want to start analysing games I love myself and I am ,,taking notes" from marvelous people like you and many other!
Thanks! I appreciate the compliment! I decided to make this video only because I didn't see anyone else examining the series this way. Not sure if I'm way off or not, but it was a lot of fun (and labor) to put it together. It at least helped me process the experience of playing these two games
damn such effort and quality from such a small channel. Subscribbled instantly
Haven't played Innocence, I jumped straight to Requiem because it was free on PS+ subscription. The story was weirdly great though, until the end of the game you're still left with a million questions about what the Macula is etc. This video helped me understand in a bit better, although we're still speculating...
Yeah... I wish we could get a little bit more information from the games, but I suppose we wouldn't be talking as much about them if they did. I'm sure APT 3 is in the works though
Hello. Just to say I liked your video and have watched all of it! I could feel your passion for both of the games 😊 As a big fan of A Plague Tale univers, I was also devastated and heartbroken at the ending... I needed several weeks to recover and grief this game!
As I'm a gamer, I always needed time to recover from a very good storyline game and an emotional one at that. But this one touched me more compared to others I have been playing to.
I liked the thoroughness you put in your video. It was all very interesting! Always very nice to hear other fan's thoughts on a game we loved so much.
I learned yesterday that a TV serie of A Plague Tale is on it's way! As it is a french game and it is happening in France, the serie will be in french with french actors and all. I live in Belgium so I speak french and I'm so glad the french director, Mathieu Turi, said he will respect the narration and all that is reflecting the story. I really can't wait for it 💛
I hope there will be an international release so all fans can watch the series. I'm very curious about where they take the characters and how far into the existing story it goes
@lordjlo817 Yeah, I hope every fans over the world will enjoy it. And eventhough it is only french language, there will always have the english subtitles for the international release, hopefully 😊 Yes, I can't wait to discover the scenarios and storyline 🙂
Unfortunately I haven't watched this yet, and considering the length, I guess I will never really watch it in one piece. Rather, in several separate sections when I get the time and space.
That being said, I gotta ask: does the content of the video concern itself even remotely with speculations for the potential future of this story by the audience, or is it just a video 100% dedicated to attempting to interpret the themes, messages or whatever?
It's been almost a year since the release, and since then the community has brought up several proposals among which are various modern day or different era plots, plots based on the Illusion Theory and/or some of its elements, Phoenix Theory, Amicia-solo plots and so on.
I don't directly speculate on the future of the franchise in this video. I did have a section for that (among other topics) but the scope was getting out of hand.
Indirectly, the cycle of the Macula plays into an easy possibility of a future game, so in that sense, I graze the idea of what could happen. But if you're looking for a more detailed look as to the future of Plague Tale, this video isn't going to do that for you.
This video is really about seeing the Macula, Hugo, Amicia, and the ending through the lens of alchemy with some tangents interspersed.
I hope this explains the scope for you better. Cheers for checking it out when you have the time 👍🏻
@@lordjlo817thanks for answering, greatly appreciated.
I would have A LOT to say about that, but atm, I'm content with your reply.
@@YTuseraL2694 No worries. Glad to help
The quality of your content is awesome. Make more videos you deserve it
I appreciate that! 😁
I just watched your entire video, your ideas seem really great and i love the prespective, also what the actual fuck, how do you only have 192 subs? The writing was great, the editing also, the research that went into it. 10/10
Really loved the game, the story, the design, the writing, tha narrative.. everything was on point, its a masterpiece.
It can be interpreted by a milliad of ways, depending on how you felt before the game and what's going on in your life.
I had 2 paralells closely resemble the story in the context of hope in my life. (wich i wont detail, who cares)
I think this game symbolizes hope.. a hope that realistically doesn't exist.
The acceptance that some things are out of your control cannot be changed, and you have to come to terms with it.
If i had to summarize in 1 word: Hope.
To some unrelated ideas i thought interesting:
Idea 1:
The game could also represent humanity as a whole, the cyclical nature of hardship and prosperity.
War, Plagues, Disasters and all the horrible things that happen should happen to have a brief, but brighter future.
What comes after war, plagues and disasters? peace and unity. This is also supported by the symbol of the phoenix, who also goes through hardship to be reborn again.
And also what is the most iportant thing in hardship? What gets you throught it all? Love. Just like the love between Amicia and Hugo.
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Idea 2: (seems like an interesting paralell [its probably too specific to be tha case but eh] )
What else has 4 stages just like the macula, doesn't have a cure, breaks people around you and forces your relatives down the path of acceptance? This might be far-fetched but cancer..
Also the stages of acceptance consists of 5 steps (Amicia has to go through theese to come to terms with the truth) :
denial, anger, depression, bargaining, and acceptance
Denial:
Mainly Amicia Doesn't want to believe that hugo cannot be saved, yet fights tooth and nail.
This is mainly the entire first game and the beginning of requiem.
Anger:
Do you remember when amicia lost it multiple times against the count's men, and went on a rampage?
i think it represents anger in the chain.
Depression and bargaining:
Amicia feels broken, overwhelmed by the things that happened, in some sections about to give up. But somehow she overcomes them (usually through help from others), a new light of hope comes, that pushes her to do the unthinkable, a brief one, before coming to terms with the facts the macula presents.
Acceptance:
Basically the ending of requiem and the results of the story making her broken, yet she seems like she found herself, on a journey to help the next carrier and protector to come.
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I still have some more ideas but im really bad at writing and its 1 am so yeah :D
Theese ideas could be wrong, but if you think about it, any good story can be interpreted in multiples of ways. some might be a bit far-fetched but the most iportant thing is that the story made you think about some topics. and induced emotions. and thats the most important thing.
10/10, cried
There are definitely a lot of ways to interpret this story. Symbols are layered throughout both games, which lend nicely to different analysis methods.
Originally, this video contained an entire section (around 6,000 words or so) about Amicia's battle with grief and how it ties to the series as a representation of a terminal illness in a loved one, but I cut all that to maintain length and continuity. I'm a big fan of viewing the series through this lens, and it applies to multiple characters too. In particular, Beatrice struggles with the inevitable death of her son. She is further along in her grief than Amicia, and that's why they clash on several occasions. Again, I made a whole other script for this, but you get the idea.
I hope we get another title in the series, but I'm also content with what's presented.
Thanks for watching, and have a good one!
This is a wonderful video! I know this is a year later so I don’t know if this comment will get read or appreciated, but this video really made me think in a way a lot of UA-cam videos don’t so I thought I’d share some thoughts I had from your analysis. The homology you drew between the Macula and Amicia as both representing the feminine moon though Citrinitas was really fascinating, especially in relation to Jungian psychoanalysis. I am curious if there is also a connection here to the Freudian/Lacanian branch of psychoanalysis, and if we could also read the macula as repetition compulsion. I am thinking mostly about Lacan’s analysis in “The Seminar on The Purloined Letter” and how the macula forces a repetition that shifts the subject position of the role of protecter, and the shifting role of sacrifice throughout the two games: Beatrice then Amicia and then Hugo/Macula. At first the Beatrice as the mother takes on the role of protecter sacrificing herself in Innocence’s first chapter to the inquisition (or at the very least being captured by it) that leads to Amicia misrecognizing herself in the role of the protector. In Lacan this would be the second position (the Queen in Poe’s story The Purloined Letter or the one who knows but knows not that she is known) and Amicia the third (the servant in Poe and the one who knows that all; that is she knows what Beatrice knows but also that she doesn’t know). This is clear at the beginning because Amicia goes to Beatrice to tell her about the first manifestation of the rats that ate her dog, and Beatrice, while she knows that Hugo has the macula, does not yet know that the plague (i.e., the macula) has progressed. When Amicia takes on the role of the protector she takes on this second position, sacrificing her innocence to save Hugo, but her sacrifice also occurs under the same delusion as Beatrice. Namely, Amicia thinks that the macula can be cured and knows that it is not inevitable. Of course, the reason the macula is dreaded is because it kills a lot of people to create the nebula, which you discuss in the video, but this is also mirrored in Amicia’s killing to protect Hugo. This is how the homology is drawn between the Macula and Amicia: both kill not for the sake of killing but for the sake of some end (one being to protect Hugo and the other to achieve the final stage). You hinted at the fact that the macula kills also so that it can go into dormancy, or so that it can prevent future death which seems to also be Amicia’s motivation for killing. I mean they both kill in oder to save lives. At the end of Requiem you note how Hugo/Macula, after Beatrice dies works to save Amicia instead. This is the third stage of repition: the macula assumes the role of protector and forces Amicia into the role of protectee (symbolized by her giving up and putting out the fire in the nebula) and the way that the macula splits the rats to allow Amicia to approach Hugo. Naturally, the story in Requiem progresses to this point by having us use Hugo to control the rats in order to advance the story. Hugo is becoming the protector role foreshadowing what will happen in the final arc of the story. Essentially, the violent killing that occurs after Beatrice dies, that you say Hugo does willingly mirrors Amicia’s willing killing of the guards at the beginning of Requiem when she is trying to find the nightshade. I read, in a sense, the final two stages of the alchemical process, Citrinitas and Rubedo, as the full cycle of repetition, when the macula fully embodies the Other (the protector role). It casts each game as one cycle of repetition with Innocence being Amicia and Requiem being Hugo. Perhaps, the Phoenix is not just a symbol of the Macula’s eternal recurrence as it finds new hosts, but the repetition complex that already occurs within the story. Again I don’t know if anyone will read this, but I thought I would share my thoughts. Again, wonderful video!
I like that you've included Beatrice in all of this, as I feel she often is overlooked in favor of Amicia, but I would argue Beatrice knows exactly what is happening to Hugo (or at least, a lot more than she lets on) in Innocence.
She has an entire laboratory dedicated to alchemy in hopes of curing him and had all the ingredients to make the Sanguinis Itinera; she only lacked the recipe. She and her husband kept Hugo sequestered in his room, much in the same fashion Basilius was by The Order. She states multiple times she's working with The Order to find a cure. She may be mislead by them, but I can't fathom she doesn't understand the gravity and severity of his condition. It's why I make small section discussing how the only reason Beatrice and Amicia are butting heads is they are in different stages of grief and understanding. Beatrice knows her son is doomed because of the knowledge she's gained and the years of keeping close tabs on Hugo. Amicia doesn't know a fraction of what Beatrice does.
I would consider whether a Protector role is even real. Personally, I don't think it is. I think it is a title given by The Order as a flattery towards manipulation. It would not be unusual for a family member or close friend to want to protect or cure a sick loved one. That's not special or unique to Hugo. He had many people sacrifice much to keep him alive. Amicia is unique in her fervor and willingness to perform violence, but if the church hadn't attacked the De Rune Estate and if Amicia didn't part ways with her mother; Robert, Beatrice, and Lucas would've been there every step of the way. Circumstances forced Amicia to become violent, but I don't doubt for a second that Robert De Rune would've been equally or even more violent if he wasn't killed in the beginning. I always found the title of Protector strange because, yeah, when you care about someone, you will try to protect them--especially if they are vulnerable in some way.
All that said, I do enjoy your theory-crafting here! I thought about bringing in more interpretations of the story, but I decided against muddling the message of alchemy. I feel the games lend themselves visually and otherwise to that more than psychoanalysis. Psychoanalysis can be applied to almost any story without need for grounding within the story, and I find that difficult to parse out in an interesting way for a video. Maybe I'll try my hand at it when I get around to making another video... BUT I like the idea of the two games repeating themselves with varying roles switches, especially the idea of the Macula moving between roles.
Anyway, enough of my blabbing.
love you man, you've deep dived alot and it all makes sense, you gave me a deeper meaningful perspective on the entire story and why the game goes the way it goes; also when amicia and lucas go back to their home for the Beatrice laboratory, Hugo's room is not at all touched by the rats, it stays as same as when they leave their house due to search for the hugo in the beginning of the innocence; what could be the reason tho 🤔
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! And there definitely is something to who/what is untouched when returning to the De Rune Estate. What it all means... I'm not sure. Maybe we'll get some answers if there's another game
I really love the video and how much effort you put into it, i also love games where its not all about shooting killing and being the first place, its all in the story and if you have any other games to suggest me that has a really deep and great story like this one let me know!
I guess it depends on what you consider "deep" for a story, so I'll give a few suggestions.
If you're wanting emotionally engaging titles that will pull on your heartstrings, I recommend: Final Fantasy 7 (OG, Intergrade, and Rebirth), Final Fantasy 10, The Last of Us, Yakuza Like A Dragon, Nier Automata, Life Is Strange, The Walking Dead (TT series), Tales from the Borderlands, Gone Home, What Remains of Edith Finch, and Red Dead Redemption.
If you like the more fantastical side of Plague Tale, Returnal and Hellblade are great choices. I haven't played Hellblade 2 yet but the original is great. Shadow of the Colossus is a good one for that too.
If you like games with absurd amounts of symbolism or reference material, I recommend: Death Stranding, the Silent Hill series, Returnal, Final Fantasy 7 Remake and Rebirth, Nier and Nier: Automata, the Xenosaga series and Xenogears. There are plenty more but those are the ones I've played.
Some other mentions that have great stories but aren't really in line with Plague Tale vibes: Final Fantasy Tactics, Inside, the Metal Gear Solid series, the Yakuza series, Inscryption, Grandia 1-3, the Final Fantasy series, Chrono Trigger... I could go on 😂
I hope this helps you find a new great game to explore!
@@lordjlo817 wow thank you very much for giving up your time to give me such an ideas, i am gonna try many of them that you mentioned and again your videos are amazing you put so much effort for others, that the kind of human we want! Thank you for everything, you just made my day twice in a row. :))
@@thunder_099 My pleasure
@@lordjlo817 thanks bro ❤
This is an incredible video! Thank you for making sense of the Macula and everything else!
Thanks for checking it out! I appreciate it
Excellent video, wow! I loved the Plague Tale series & very much had a path like Amicia's. Having younger siblings myself I was very attached to Hugo & in denial the whole time, hoping chapter after chapter that he might be saved, despite slowly coming to realise that it would never happen... Don't think I've reached Rubedo, though 🤔 On another note, loved your analysis, it's super well structured and very easy to follow, and the points you've made make a lot of sense. It kind of helped me get through the grief of killing Hugo at the end 😥 thank you!!! Subscribed :))
I found Requiem to be a tough game to play since my son is the same age has Hugo. That final scene... yeesh. That was hard.
One of the reasons I wanted to make this video was to work through my own thoughts on how the series made me feel. It helped me a lot, so I'm glad I could pass that along to you.
Have a good one!
I can't watch this video thoroughly because I haven't played a plague's tale yet, but I'm happy to see you uploading again.
No worries! Good to hear from you as well. I don't plan on going another year between uploads (yeesh). Hopefully, I'll get something up you'll be able to check out
@@lordjlo817❤❤❤
Awesome video.
I don't think everything needs a definitive answer.
That's life. Full of unanswered mysteries.
It's up to us to make up our own minds.
I agree. Exploring those mysteries can lead us to our own answers--even if the mystery itself never provides one.
I think the Prima Macula is akin to the Reapers in Mass Effect or the Red Madness in Enderal, a necessary evil during times of change to keep humanity in check.
I'm a fan of this as well, but my only nagging issue with it is how would the Macula know the time was right? Maybe its lifecycle is in rhythm with humanity's growth... I'm very curious what future installments in the series will bring
The next series for review - Ori!!!
Before starting this video myself, i want to give my own perspective on what the Prima Macula is. I probably won’t finish the video tonight but it’s looking good so far. My memory is admittedly a little fuzzy as it’s been a while since i’ve played.
Starting off I don’t believe the Prima Macula is inherently a negative force. Rather it acts as a part of its host or rather a living being that lives on through others. But why does it manifest in the first place? You may ask. Well i believe it to be one of two things. It’s either a test/gift brought to the young, with the question if humanity has the intelligence and compassion to raise someone possessing such a thing into maturity. That or it’s the embryo of a being with wonderful potential with the goal of one day surviving to adulthood so they could shape the world in unison.
This all correlates with the fact that those whom have the Prima Macula active within them have the power to *shape reality itself* as they grow more in tune with it. We witnessed it both first hand from Hugo where the world was nearly destroyed by him from his want of the suffering to end. During this process things from his dreams and nightmares spilled into the world and dreams of others. Not just the rats but the phoenix as well. We get to witness that very bird watch over his and his mother’s grave during the epilogue.
There was also the case of the previous host. This child suffered a fate so tragic and painful that it left a very *scar* on the Macula. The rage, sorrow, and fear being so intense from them that even the most recent host felt it by proximity. This very suffering had led to the manifestation of the rats, a reminder of the very things that bit away at the poor child’s flesh as he rotted away from a world that rejected him.
Sorry that this was so disjointed. I wrote down my thoughts on this after midnight so the organization of my intent was scewed for my hubris.
Those are some unique ideas. I agree with you about the Macula not necessarily being evil, which I stated in the video, and I also agree that it remembers the pains of its previous incarnations. That second point, I feel, is important to the events of Requiem.
However, I disagree on the nature of Hugo's dreams as well the gravesite at the end.
I don't think the series presents Hugo's dream as something manifested by him or that his dream affects reality in any meaningful way. The Dream seems fully originated from the Macula. The Nebula definitely affects reality, and one could argue that is a form of dream/nightmare concocted in part by Hugo. I'm not seeing the connection beyond that. Can you explain further?
I never assumed the gravesite at the end was for anyone other than Hugo, especially considering how Amicia talks to it. But if you have something that shows otherwise, I'd love to examine that. It could change a few things in my head canon.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Thank you for this Amazon Video.
I hope that there will not be another game in this Series.
These two games have a very nice story and ending
best analysis ever
I'm not sure about that, but thank you for the compliment 😅
Great video! It made me think better about what happened in the game.
I'm glad you found something to enhance how you think about the game. Thanks for watching!
I have a few theories for what the next game could be, if it happens. It could be that if the game takes place in the future, the child could be a girl and the protector an adult boy, perhaps a science student who will try to find some answer in relation to what is running through the child's veins. Or in the third game it could be the story of Basilius and Aelia.@@lordjlo817
Wow incredible analysis just finished the game and I’m in shock this video is helping me through it.
Glad to hear! Making this video helped me process everything. Tough game to get through... 🥲
you did an amaizing work, really. thanks for the effort and all the info
My pleasure! I hoped you enjoyed it!
Instant sub, great video man seriously.
Appreciate that! I'm glad you enjoyed it
Great video! Thank you for your insight and work!
Glad it was helpful! 😁
This is beautifully put toghter and well explained in deep detail.This game is a breath of fresh air in modern gaming.
Thanks for watching! This video was definitely a labor of love.
I spent way too long thinking about these games, but they are wonderful in a bittersweet way. Part of me doesn't want there to be a third in the series, but I also trust Asobo to craft something incredible if they decide to go that route at some point.
Could the Macula be kind of like an Outer God like in Elden Ring?
I haven't played Elden Ring. I'll look that up...
*reads the Elden Ring wiki on Outer Gods*
I gather the Outer Gods to be deities without direct contact with denizens or the physical world, but can greatly influence decisions or abilities of those who worship them. I could be wrong on that.
If that's the case... I wouldn't think the Macula is like that. I say that because the Macula, IMO, has a bit more control once awakened but doesn't seem to have control of when or who it awakens within. There could more going on in the background, but it's hard to say.
Although, it does bring up a fun thought experiment: What if the Macula is one of many of its kind? The Macula represents pestilence and maybe another entity represents a different malady or scourge upon humanity. Obviously, that's complete theory-crafting but interesting to think about.
Great video!! Thanks a lot for the hard work
Thanks for checking it out! It definitely took me longer than I'd liked to put it together... 😅
Absolutely amazing video. thank you
My pleasure. Thanks for checking it out
I think the moment where Hugo "died" for me, was when he saw the slavers on the island where it was supposed to be full of nice people. I already knew that things there was too good to be true. But to a child's eyes, their innocence knows hope. That hope was lost, when he lost faith in humanity.
It was bitter-sweet, but even Hugo knew his faith, when they were on Sophia's ship. In my opinion, Hugo would've still been alive, if he was just kept in his room from the first game this entire time.
He would've been severely sheltered, and infantalized (all the way towards his adult life). But alive... I really hate myself by being "that guy", but Beatrice, Laurentius, Vaudin, heck, in some twisted way, even The Order, might've had the right idea from the beginning.dult life). But alive... I really hate myself by being "that guy", but Beatrice, Laurentius, Vaudin, heck, in some twisted way, even The Order, might've had the right idea from the beginning.
I would argue his innocence was shattered in that moment, but seeing the slavers definitely changed his outlook on humanity an irreversible way--much how the pool in the inner sanctum created doubt as to the true meaning of his dreams.
I don't think Hugo would survive staying at home. He would be comfortable for a time, but Innocence shows the Macula was already spreading to the surrounding towns and countryside before Hugo even escaped. He would've live longer, but his quality of life would've been lesser. Although, he also would've killed far fewer people. I also believe Beatrice (or his father) would have killed him (like Amicia does) long before he destroyed everything around him. Beatrice knew what the Macula meant for him and everyone else; Amicia didn't know and that's why his and other's suffering dragged along.
@@lordjlo817 Yeah, my mistake... I wasn't too far into the video when you mentioned the Macula being sentient.
Great video and analysis! You've earned a sub!
Much appreciated! I hope you have great day
Is Hugo dream a trick to get him to reach the island?
Personally, I don't believe so, but it's very probable as well. I feel like the Macula was recalling the last location it surfaced, and the island imagery was incidental to the deeper message of convergence. But there isn't enough information one way or the other IMO
@@lordjlo817i think it is. macula wants to break hugo, so it could take full control. and the best way to do it is desperation, after chasing a false hope, you get disappointed again and again. that's when you give up. hugo gives up after they found basilius, Sofia said macula really has a way with children. that's when maculas plan succeed
NICE EFFORTS
Personally, I think Hugo’s merging with the Macula changed him and gave him an understanding of his situation beyond what he would have normally had, which would explain his strange maturity during the nebula sequence. I think he is controlling the rats, and that whatever was happening at the center of the nebula was not complete. Killing Hugo didn’t complete a cycle, it stopped the Macula from completing whatever it is it has been trying to do. I don’t think it would keep sending tidal waves of rats if it was finished, if the nebula was the final stage of its plan, then it would just stop creating obstacles like the rats and let Amicia through completely unhindered. I think the Nebula is the cocoon, in that giant sphere, things are happening that would have eventually led to something even more devastating to the world.
I can definitely see that perspective and had those same thoughts examining my notes as I crafted the script. And there's no real answer to those issues since we don't know what happened directly after Hugo or Basilius' deaths.
Basilius died without the help of anyone (that we know of), so does that mean he also didn't complete the cycle? If so, what's gestating in the "cocoon" beneath him and at the end? Why can't it survive at that point without the host? Does it need more resources? What is the cycle then? What happens to the host when whatever is going on in the "cocoon" is finished? Does the host just die? Get absorbed? If killing Hugo didn't complete/stopped the cycle, what does the phoenix mean? How does it reappear if the phoenix no longer means the cycle is successful? I don't know. I asked myself those questions and couldn't find satisfactory answers, which is what lead to my rabbit hole with alchemy, which, for the record, doesn't answer everything. Just a thought experiment, really.
We don't how the rats form either other then those large gestating egg-things, which are obviously not how rats are born. Are they spawned automatically as long as the Macula is active? Are they a conscious effort by the Macula? If so, why doesn't it just spawn wherever it needs them and take what it wants? Why does the host even matter if the Macula can direct and spawn rats at will? Are they even physically there since they evaporate in light?
The big question for me through all of it: What's the goal? If the Prima Macula's goal is to birth into the world and cause devastation, then it definitely is evil, which I disagree with. That's why I lean more into the metaphysical and alchemy. It makes more sense to me that the Macula is not of this world, and it needs both spiritual and physical resources to rebirth into its own world. If its goal is domination of some kind, why hasn't it succeeded in the past? Seem like it would be easier to succeed with fewer overall people, less technology available for defense, etc.
BUT. I don't have any definitive answers. The series has soooooooo many areas that aren't explained in the slightest, which I enjoy. It means despite everything I've thought about and presented, your ideas are valid too. There's evidence to swing the pendulum of lore to a lot of directions. This video is just one swing in one direction.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
@@lordjlo817super late reply but I loved the vid and enjoyed the engagement, keep up the good work man.
Im not the best in linguistics but genetally in spanish, french and latin there has to be gender concordancy between noun and adjective which is why the femenine wouldve been used for prima macula.
I didn't even know Requiem was a sequel. Only downloaded it because it was free on PS Plus. Absolutely broke me at the end. Now i have to play Innocence
You should! It's great in a different way. It will definitely hit different now that you know the end
If you’ve been collecting the PS+ monthly games regularly, you likely have the first game too! That’s how I played both of them.
RFF Jlo?
the video starts at 2:55
Do you think Asobo should make a third game?
Honestly? No, with one exception.
I find the duology wraps up the De Rune story. I don't need to follow Amicia around trying to help the next victim of the Macula. Her story is done IMO.
The exception I would want to play is a story apart from these two games. Either something far flung to the future following entirely new people (maybe industrial revolution or even beyond present day), a game following Lucas, or a game following Basilius and Aelia. I would find those interesting and they would let Asobo flex its artistic muscles.
How about you?
I like Amicia character, like to know more about her but I have a feeling they should stop there but I don’t know, a plague tale without Amicia is not a plague tale game for me.
I completely understand that. It's kind of why I want to see Asobo try something new instead of a sequel, but I have a strong feeling a third one will be coming.
@@lordjlo817 If anything, I want a third game but focusing on Aelia and Basilius; I think it'd work perfectly, in my opinion. It wouldn't be screwing anything up but instead giving us more information.
Lucas's story and the other characters are done. Sure, it'd be cool to see what everyone is up to, but we don't need to; Sophia explained what the others are doing. Lucas is studying, Sophia is focusing on more legal trade, etc.
I agree with you. Overall, A third game would be unnecessary and not the same; I would want the game to take place on a different day. It wouldn't have the same feeling, and I can't see it doing too well. It'd be interesting if they did other timelines in Greek. But no, I wouldn'twant it to be modern-day America, let's say.
@@one8494 I'd definitely be interested in that, if only to satisfy my curiosity of what happened to Basilius and how the Order truly behaves. Modern day doesn't interest me much at all. I'd much rather see Asobo tryout more periods like the industrial revolution, ancient times, or far in the future
Amazing and informative
Thanks for checking it out!
for as much as i love the games, i hate amicias ending, because, regardless of whatever symbolic meaning ist holds, its simply unbelievable. As in, its simply impossible to believe that a 14 year old, who suffered through all the horrific things she had would just be "Fine" after a year of sitting in the mountains. It would have been a far more believable ending, albeit probably with less symbolic weight, if amicia had deleted herself or was so broken, that it would take a whole third game of deep, and i do in fact meen DEAP soulsearching and psychoemotional work to heal herself.
It's true that she's been through a lot, but I disagree with her being in a good state at the end of the game. Functional doesn't mean she's doing well. Her struggle to leave the mountain is proof of that.
I also think it would go completely against her final statement of the game and Hugo's desires if she took her own life. She wants to remember what happened to help prevent the tragedy from repeating. Many real life tragedies lead to powerful motivations for those involved.
Personally, I thought the ending did a great job showing how trauma can be difficult to move on from. Her focus on the Macula--even after it was forced to go dormant--shows she can't move on or let go.
Using metaphor explains how the Macula functions: By not using in-universe elements from the story, but by connecting it with our real world. If you connect the Macula with sociopathy and its development in a child's mind, the stages at 4:20 can be seen as stages in the development of a psyche predisposition to become a powerful destructive sociopath when faced with violence and hate from its environment.
BTW also the reason why Amicia's plan to bring him far away up on the mountain, away from violent influences, until he was matured enough to control his predisposition ("I hate them all! I kill all of them!") was actually the correct plan, but it was the environment around Amicia and Hugo which prevented that, making both a mirror reflecting the violence and hate around them back into the world - Amicia more specific at those threatening her and her companions as the more matured soul and Hugo being broad and unreflected being the less matured mind.
Wonderful content.
Thank you kindly! Cheers
I enjoyed this but around 40 minutes I started to feel as though we'd strayed into pure speculation.
There's a lot of speculation based on the information presented. I'm not claiming to know anything besides that. I think the openness of this series is what makes it worth talking about. So, yes, you are completely correct; I do a lot of speculation once the groundwork for that speculation is paved. I wish we had more to go off...
@@lordjlo817 Same dude!
Minor correction. You'd use Prima because the subject "macula" is feminine. I like your theory but in romance languages if the subject is feminine than any linking word before it will also be feminine.
I didn't realize that! Thanks for the information!
Liked and subscribed
Thanks for watching!
It's interesting and impressive. The alchemical metaphors seem to work especially in the ending sequence inside the nebula.
I'm wondering though why would you assume that Hugo literally died on La Cuna?
If he did, and the Macula was in charge then why would he be so distressed on the way to the docks that the village's destruction was his own doing and "his fault"? Why would he insist on freeing Arnaud? Finally - why would he attack the count? If the Macula's goal was survival, then the count could provide it. The emotional response on the supposed death of Amicia I think proves, Hugo's still there.
But what's more troubling to me, that once you assume that Hugo died on La Cuna, then a very important albeit short conversation between Amicia and Hugo loses its impact. The conversation they had on the ship just before the count attacked, when Hugo noticed there's something different in the way he feels, to which Amicia replied, that this is growing up. I think it's a very important scene, which loses all of its meaning if we assume that Macula was already in full control and only manipulating Amicia. Hugo did seem to grow up at that point, and that's why it didn't really strike me as inconsistent that his voice in the nebula was so calm and sage. He has already proven throughout the story, that he's capable of a very mature approach to life and death. After the trauma of his mother's death, he just passed the (nomen omen) threshold, and became an adult.
I think it's quite clear that Hugo's "death" hinted by the score (and the composer) wasn't literal - Hugo did not lose his humanity. It's only the child Hugo that died, to make way for a grown up Hugo.
So as much as the scene in the nebula was a hallucination it seems probable, that it was in fact Hugo's voice guiding Amicia there. Hugo and Amicia switched roles, because he understood certain truths earlier than she did, and he made peace with it. Amicia still needed guidance, which she got.
IMO Hugo is essentially gone at that critical moment, and all of his unusual mannerisms afterward are the Macula deeply influencing him.
I briefly mention the scene on the boat and state there is a twinge of Hugo left, but the point both myself and the composer made is the idea that Hugo is essentially dead at that point. The Macula is in control. Hugo occasionally surfaces in those final scenes between the underground and the boat, but he fully surrendered and there was no going back.
I always viewed the boat scene as less Hugo growing up and more him truly feeling the Macula for the first time and the anxiety that must induce knowing it's over. Amicia explains it away, but I can't take Amicia at her word because she's deep in denial about basically everything.
As for Arnauld, one could argue either way. Hugo wants to save him. It's a strong emotion and gives Hugo a chance to speak briefly. You could argue the Macula sees him as an asset. Either is fine.
Victor is a threat regardless. He wants control of Hugo, which is something the Macula has fought to obtain. I don't think it would view him as safe. It's the reason the Nebula sparks to life. Do or die, so to speak.
As for the Nebula, there are a ton of interpretations. For me, the moment Amicia stepped into it, everything inside until the final door, was of her own doing. She placed the statues (as Hugo states), she placed the rat demons, she placed the peoples destroyed in her wake, and she placed the Hugo that talks to her. But as I said in the video, it's easy to argue what Lucas and Amicia see is from their own mind or from the Macula or from Hugo. All of those feed to the end goal of Hugo dying. I don't think one is wrong or right since there's evidence to go for all scenarios. For me, I prefer thinking Amicia grew from her self-examination and Hugo accepted his fate--choosing to save those around him knowing he wouldn't survive.
In the end, IMO it doesn't matter what I think about it. There are a ton of ways to look at this game. My original script was about how the entire duology is about terminal cancer. Like I said, there's enough meat on the bones to allow the audience a chance to interpret how they want. If you like Hugo talking to Amicia at the end, nothing wrong with that. Plenty to support that even. I mostly made this video just to spark curiosity. I don't necessarily think it's the be all. Thanks for checking it out
@@lordjlo817 it is a great video and a great interpretation. The amount of work you did and how well you prepared is truly impressive. And what's most important - you did spark a conversation which is what we lack in today's world so much :).
I guess then, that your stance on Hugo dying is not as "binary" as I thought. I must have missed the part where you mentioned that his humanity occasionally surfaces.
I agree this might be a metaphor about coming to terms with a terminal illness or any other inevitable experience. Still, I don't really buy the part about Macula trying to find a "rest state" or achieve anything else than just further growth. So it's kind of like cancer - it does not need to find any sort of "peace" whatever that might be, it's only there to feed as much as possible until the host dies.
And if that's the working hypothesis, then the whole part about Macula manipulating Amicia in the Nebula to kill Hugo doesn't have any foundation. What I think happened is that Macula did specifically show La Cuna to Hugo, so that:
1. He builds up hope, that there is a cure,
2. Discovers by himself what happened to the previous carrier, so that he loses this newly gained hope,
3. Comes to a conclusion, that there's no point in resisting, and it's just better to accept the Macula to avoid the terrible suffering and death of his protector.
In my view, it almost succeeded (in no small part thanks to the "bonus" of Beatrice being killed). But what happened next is that Hugo lost himself to the Macula in grief over his mother, but then was brought back by Amicia by the campfire. He was of course changed by then, he lost his innocence, he lost hope, but he did not lose his humanity entirely yet. The fact he was still bothered by the town being ravaged by rats and Arnaud getting executed, and later on by Amicia getting supposedly killed makes me think, he was still Hugo. A lot more mature and disenchanted, but still good at heart. I don't really see any reason for the Macula to "pretend" to be Hugo if he was dead already.
What follows is the scene in the Nebula. Lucas even comments that what they will see there are "dreams of a deceived child", so even if they both do experience something different I think it's still a vision created by Hugo's confused mind. Of course the scene where they hold hands is just a vision, but to me it seems like it's a vision created by Hugo as his last gift to his sister and also as his redemption. A gift of wisdom that he achieved earlier than his older sister who was still in denial.
That also gives more sense to Amicia's words at Hugo's cairn, where she talks about remembering Hugo's sacrifice (which is his Requiem) - if it wasn't Hugo showing his sister the way, then there was no sacrifice really.
Of course this is just my view. I think that as with everything a lot depends on the a priori assumptions you make going into it, because there's no "hard evidence" for these hypotheses.
Goddamn what a game, what a story... a true work of art :).
@@kacperiwomatuszewski5395 Honestly, I don't even agree with everything in the video, but I wanted to explore the ideas presented as far as I could. The exploration definitely changed how I thought about the game, I think, for the better. As I stated multiple times throughout it: A lot of it is speculation because we don't have enough information.
I also want to say that I think all of your points are valid when viewed through another angle unrelated to alchemy. That's what makes the story worth revisiting. But I do want to point out that viewing the game through a lens of alchemy and viewing the game through a lens of terminal illness are not necessarily compatible nor do they strive to be unless one wants them to. For me, they are two entirely separate concepts.
My terminal illness script, which I set aside, didn't really examine the Macula in any meaningful way. I didn't care how the Macula fit; I wanted to explore how the characters behaved to the situation--primarily through the lens of grief surrounding a terminal illness. Amicia and Beatrice in particular are of interest because of the different approaches they take. I've seen these types of people in my life surrounding the death of a loved one. It makes for a neat examination, but I didn't find it as interesting as alchemy.
I'll try to explain why I think alchemy explains a lot. However, I do want to point out, as I did in the video, no one outside Asobo knows what the Macula is. We can speculate and present different viewpoints, which is great, but the Macula is inherently unknown. We can paste whatever personality or traits we want on it, and we wouldn't be wrong--we wouldn't be right though.
I would say the biggest thing to clarify is this: I don't think the Macula manipulated Amicia or Lucas (or Hugo, if I'm getting down to it). It's a possibility based on alchemy and the myth of the phoenix, but I don't find that as emotionally satisfying nor do I think it helps explain the Macula. If it truly could manipulate people entirely, why wouldn't it take the chance to actually talk when it briefly could? It doesn't really say much of anything, which goes back to it being unknowable and foreign to our world. It also brings up the idea often presented in Lovecraftian stories: Otherworld deities or beings don't even find humanity worthy of addressing.
If it could truly manipulate people either inside or outside the Nebula, I think that leaves a gaping hole in the story--why did Basilius die at all? We know the Nebula is gigantic and the reach of the rats large. If it could manipulate people, wouldn't it do so to keep Basilius going? I don't think it can manipulate anyone other than its host, and only in the sense of manipulation through coercion--not outright mind control or something of the like. If the Macula's endgame was unlimited expansion, it does so in a very, very inefficient manner.
I truly believe everything in the Nebula is created by Amicia for herself. Yes, Lucas says it's a dream of a deceived child. Which one though? He also says it's a crucible, which implies it is the mixing pot of growth for those who enter the final stages of alchemy. He also states the natural laws no longer apply. That last statement pretty much opens the door to any and all interpretations IMO and gives a lot of leeway to theories like Hugo still being alive, etc. I'm not saying Lucas should be disregarded, but he states several times he only knows what The Order and Beatrice allowed him to know, and it's clear they didn't know much. So, at that moment, does Lucas count as authority? I don't know. I'll take a big grain of salt there.
Anyway. Back to Amicia... The Nebula seems to pull her subconscious thoughts forward for her to examine (black to white to yellow to red). Olivier Derivière and Charlotte McBurney both stated that section of Requiem was called "The Nightmare" in the script and designed to mirror Amicia's nightmare sequence in Innocence--a nightmare which preyed on her insecurities and fears surrounding Hugo and her ability to save/protect him. The same music is played. The same points others made to her (Hugo stating he will die, Lucas chastising her impulsiveness and wake of destruction, Beatrice reminding her she's a child, Sophia scolding her about bloodlust, Arnauld physically reminding her she's not invincible...etc.) take form within the Nebula. She is a deceived child--deceived by herself and her sophomoric outlook at the dire situations she gets into.
She learns who she is by examining all the parts of herself she's chosen to ignore. Could Hugo be helping in the Nebula? Sure, I don't have a problem with that. But I don't believe he generated what she needed to see and hear.
I don't believe that because Hugo doesn't really exist at this point in the story. He even admits that he is now the Macula during the walk of death. That harkens back to the "Is Hugo dead or not?" discussion. He's dead in the sense that the entity of "Hugo" is merging and eventually merged with the Macula (black to white to yellow to red)--the merging of the Sun and Moon, which Lucas speaks on. A piece of Hugo may live on but not as Hugo; he lives on as the Macula. So, if Hugo's talk and walk is his last gift to Lucas and Amicia, is it him doing that or the Macula? My vote would be the merged version of the Macula. (I don't think either of them help, but that's the train I'd follow if I wanted to think that.)
I don't think this takes away from his sacrifice that Amicia points out. He's sacrificed plenty. His childhood, his father and mother, he thought his sister died, his future. He willing gives himself to the Macula to save Lucas and Amicia. If he wasn't in that position, I still believe that eventually he would willing give over because he would understand it is better to give in and stop the cycle of violence--with the caveat that someone would be there with him--not to protect him but to protect the world by ending his life.
I find Amicia's words at the cairn even more fitting when viewed through alchemy. More than anything else, Hugo sacrificed growth. He will never be grown up. He will never find out who he really is or who he could be. He will never reach his rubedo stage. He sacrificed that so those around him could continue. I find that fitting for him, and it shows Amicia's immense growth since that day.
Anyhoo. Enough writing a novel...
Lots of different ways to examine this series with most viewpoints slotting easily into the story and lore. I just wish we knew slightly more about the Macula to clear up some things.
And just to reiterate: I don't think anything you've said doesn't make sense. Lots of speculation in viewing through alchemy. Lots of speculation viewing through any lens at this point. Just fun to poke around through the lore and story to see what secrets it might be hiding.
Cheers
The story is quite literally a tale: An allegory rich with metaphors. That's also why the story and the characters stay with you for long after the experience ended: Allegorical story telling puts elements from our real world in a new context, using metaphors, that represent a certain aspect of our real world - or even multiple at the same time in a new combination. It reflects upon the human condition (see classic "Star Trek") and our ethics and values. So your mind goes back to it, because the story, while phantastical and not of-our-times or our-world, is at its core about a truth - and thus a source for lessons to learn, truths about what it means to be human. "A Plague Tale" teaches a lot about that. Because the story of Amicia and Hugo is about the struggle to stay human, to stay empathic and compassionate in a world of violence and hate - a struggle we all had for a short time or maybe a longer time. Both Amicia and Hugo are in this fight, sometimes together, sometimes apart, and both - due to their different maturity - have a different outcome. Amicia was able to save her soul in the end. Hugo ... was not, when he went "nuclear" (Metaphor!) and turned Marseilles into Ground Zero as a retaliation measure, because he thought his sister was killed, and he gave into his hate and the lust for revenge - and in that process lost the fight for his soul.
Which bring in the Prima Macula: As in any allegory, the Macula is not what it seems to be on the surface. It is a metaphor for sociopathy, and the immense damage that happens when an individual with the psychological predisposition becomes a sociopath with an immense destructive force due to childhood experiences with violence. The rats in this are also only on the surface rats: They are a metaphor for this immense destruction a sociopath can cause when he has the tools at his disposal to do so. There is a reason why they behave more like a natural force, flooding the environment more like a tsunami or tornado, because the individual rats are only particles of that force (in Marseilles being a metaphor for the radiation spreading out from a Ground Zero).
Other metaphors from my point of view: Amicia stands for child soldiers (like in Africa), forced to kill by adults, or for young soldiers (like women in Ukraine), forced to use lethal force from one day to another to defend themselves, and the inner struggle for their own humanity these individuals face every day. One key aspect of her character through the whole story: Amicia is not who she wants to be. The Count stays for power hungry psychopaths ("we are born to keep the fire going") lusting for Weapons Of Mass Destruction (also a metaphor Hugo stands for) to control the world (see Kim Jong-Un in North Korea or Putin in Russia). Just to name a few. Many of the events, places and characters in "A Plague Tale: Requiem" can be mapped to our real world (see mass religious fanatism on La Cuna with people judging Amicia and Hugo in religious terms, or schizophrenia and maligned narcissism in the Countess also due to childhood trauma, or Sophia being a surrogate mother for Amicia who lost trust in her real mother after she ordered her to care for Hugo and kill for him in "Innocence").
"A Plague Tale" stays with you, because its story and its characters teach you something about yourself and the world we live in today. Something masterful allegory story telling accomplishes. And in that, "A Plague Tale" is a true masterpiece.
Um, I don't think I can agree entirely with your comments: they seem to be about how the game is "good" or a masterpiece *because* it is an allegory (which, technically, can be decisively proven only if the writer comes out and says as much).
What rubs me is that you seem to ignore that allegories generally tend to be a divisive topic in writing discussions nowadays, especially among people who are well-versed in Tolkien and endorse his (to my knowledge, pretty popular) views.
What if someone comes in, plays the game, interprets it a certain way that he finds himself personally disagreeing with and starts disliking the game as a whole because of it, only to be then told by others that he dislikes it because he "didn't understand it"? See what I'm getting at? Such instances I can imagine are very annoying to put up with.
If it's truly meant to be allegorical, then it's almost inevitably didactic and lecture-like, which is a very risky direction, almost certain to not be liked universally.
That is an interesting interpretation, but I haven't seen anything from the creators suggesting A Plague Tale is allegorical to anything current like nuclear weapons or modern child soldiers. I'm also failing to see the connections within the text itself without bringing in a lot of external baggage.
Allegories typically are hidden meanings covering an entire text that only become apparent by either intense study or direct statement from the author, such as George Orwell's works. They are usually topical to the time period and/or reference a specific culture or incident. And while I do find lots of symbolism and metaphor throughout both games, I think it is a stretch to overlay modern politics in this instance. The games just don't seem to support that.
It's true they say a lot about various aspects of living like grief, religious fanaticism, PTSD, revenge, etc. But I feel that is why they are relatable--not because they are allegorical to modern conflicts and politics. One can apply those lessons and emotions to modern examples, but that doesn't mean the games represent those examples.
Godzilla is another great example of a good allegory, and there are internal and external sources that confirm it. A Plague Tale doesn't seem to have that.
Some of what you say makes sense within the text (Sophia's relationship, for example), but stating something represents something else doesn't make it so. If you have interviews from the writer/director showing these leanings, I'd be very interested in reading them, and I'd gladly change my stance of the texts with that information.
@@lordjlo817 @YTuseraL2694 Presenting an alternative/extended interpretation of a story, especially as a reaction to an interpretation itself, is not a dismissal but a response to the invitation to engage in a conversation. If a conversation - the social aspect of this media BTW - is not wanted: The comment section can always be disabled. Also: It is quite a strawman to discredit my contribution by accusing it of valuing the story because it can be seen as allegorical after the text provided several arguments in favor instead of just claiming it. It seems to me, someone is projecting his motivation to discredit others providing an alternative perspective onto me instead of engaging with its content.
Also: A story does not need the writer to explicitly state that it is allegorical in order for it to be interpreted as such. Allegory is open to interpretation by readers and scholars even if not directly indicated by the author. Allegory is a technique where elements of a work can symbolize or represent other ideas/concepts, often in a way that invites multiple possible meanings. Authors may deliberately include allegorical elements without calling explicit attention to them, leaving room for analysis. Readers can discern allegorical interpretations by analyzing characters, events, settings for symbolic significance beyond a literal level. Allegory can be unintended if readers identify symbolic themes/parallels not necessarily planned by the writer. Literary analysis considers both intended and possible unintended allegory. Writers have limited control over all interpretations, as readers bring their own knowledge/perspectives. Definitive authorial intent is not required for finding allegory. If a work lends itself to a layer of symbolic meaning and there is evidence in the text, an allegorical reading can be reasonably assessed even without author confirmation.
Here the strong metaphorical possibilities in interpreting Hugo's control of the rats as representing the development and effects of sociopathy in a child due to their environment: Hugo grows up in a world of violence, fear, persecution and loss (death of parents). This type of traumatic upbringing could foster sociopathic traits. His power awakens and grows each time he experiences emotional distress/trauma (mother's death, sister in danger). This parallels how sociopathy may emerge from an inability to process emotions healthily. When fully merged with the Macula, he feels no empathy and seeks destruction for its own sake. Like a sociopath disconnected from normal human emotions and morality. His commands unleash uncontrollable chaos and carnage, mirroring how a sociopath in a position of authority/influence could cause massive harm due to their impaired conscience and lack of restraint. Others fear and try to constrain his power due to its threat, just as sociopathic traits are both demonized and yet exploited by authoritarian institutions. In the end, his own sister must kill him to protect others, representing sociopathy as a condition that can negatively impact both self and society if left unchecked. So in this interpretation, Hugo's storyline serves as a profound metaphor for how sociopathy may gestate in a troubled childhood, and the immense destruction that could follow if such a mindset gains access to networks of control over others. It acts as a critique of societies that breed such disorders. @@lordjlo817
Viewing the Prima Macula illness as a metaphor for a child's predisposition toward developing sociopathic traits: The Macula lies dormant in Hugo's blood from birth, much like sociopathic wiring may exist in some from an early age due to genetic/neurological factors. External triggers (thresholds) cause the Macula to progressively emerge throughout Hugo's life. Similarly, environmental influences can activate/exacerbate innate sociopathic tendencies over time. Hugo struggles against the Macula's corrupting influence trying to dominate his mind/body. This parallels the internal fight sociopathic children face as underlying features clash with their humanity. When the Macula fully asserts control, Hugo's caring/empathic nature disappears. Like sociopathy eclipsing normal human compassion/conscience untreated. Beatrice works to counter the Macula's effects through concoctions, mirroring how therapy/support aims to manage sociopathic traits. Ultimately, the Macula proves very difficult to suppress, much as severe sociopathy can be highly intractable without addressing root causes. So the metaphor suggests children may inherit a genetic or developmental predisposition leaving them vulnerable to sociopathic outcomes depending on environmental and intrapsychic influences during maturation. It portrays the complexity of nature vs nurture at play in shaping the mind.@@lordjlo817
I feel like there's gotta be some symbolism in Amicia's hair and how it just keeps on getting shorter and shorter until it looks like a buzz cut
@@Cod-w1s The changing of a woman's hairstyle is a well-established trope in literature and media, so you're totally right on that front. Short hair or the cutting of hair often represents renewal or rebirth. In Amicia's case, she's staying the next phase of her life and has found her true self.
I hate her short hair
@@This_Guy- Fair enough