OK, I admit it. I’m another Grizzly lathe owner and I’ll be checking to see if I have a similar problem. Many owners of Grizzly machine tools have reported issues with improperly machined parts. That being said, if not for tools like these folks like me would not likely afford any tool. This is not a compliment but certainly a way to rationalize the purchase of sometimes sketchy equipment. I, like most people need to live within my means. Thanks for posting this video, very helpful.
I have a Grizzly G9972Z, the bigger brother to your lathe... and after 15 years of using it, I too see a simlar gap, about 5 thou on my lathe! I guess that's my afternoon task. Great series, thanks!
I have the same lathe, without the gearbox. Although it's miles ahead of the old Craftsman/Atlas 12x36" machine I had before, now I have to get out the feeler gauges. Thanks a lot, James!
I have the same machine, and replacing the compound with a solid block makes a huge improvement in rigidity and reducing chatter. Before, I always had problems parting off; now it’s smooth and easy.
As Stefan would say, “These imported machines can be very good, but you have to consider them as a kit that needs building correctly” or certainly words to that effect. He has had great results with his (much modified) lathe and does some incredibly accurate work. Great video, thanks for sharing.
@@an2thea514 The distance from Hallein to Stefan Gotteswinter is about 667 microseconds. Considering walking distance according to Google maps it is a bit further, 704 microseconds.
Thanks for this insight. Made me go out to my Craftsman 12" lathe, and see if it had the same issue. It did not, but investigating it led me to discover another problem in the compound I hadn't realized I had! Now that's fixed too..
If the internet existed 20 years ago, my career choices would have been completely different! I can't believe you've only got 125K subscribing. Thanks for sharing this information (and the approach you take to systematically define and correct the issue(s) )
James; Thanks for the timely video. I have a smaller cousin to your lathe, a Harbor Freight 9" x 20" of 2005 vintage. I broke out the feeler gauges and I had the same elevation on the tailstock side of the cross slide. Hand finishing the gib strip and stoning of contact surfaces had a similar positive result as your video with the gap gone. Please keep up the thoughtful analysis you put in on your video productions!!
@@Clough42 Odd thing I found is that both the saddle surface and bottom of the cross slide contact surfaces were crudely hand scraped with very crude grinding tracks on the saddle. I would say this was more for appearance than function. Anyway the cuts now are much more solid though still limited by the small size and power native to this machine. Thanks again, LRU>
I worked in machining and fabrication for 47 years. I done my best work the second and third times. The trick is to keep it to yourself. Thanks for sharing your improvement.
i went straight out to my 80's Taiwanese lathe, got out the dial indicator and stand and continued my quest for more rigidity. Last week I sat my lathe on an improved bench and gained. I've found .002 movement in the bed to carriage and my compound has a little of the issue you just corrected. Won't be happy till my parting tool work well on steels. Thank you for the enlightenment.
I wanted to thank you for this video. I just (1 week ago) received my G0602, which I bought new from Grizzly. I watched this video a couple of times months before buying the G0602. The first thing I did after getting it up on my bench was to check that cross slide and guess what? Everything was milled as it was supposed to be! The problem you had is not existent in mine. I am very sure the people at Grizzly have seen your video, and perhaps another one out there about the same issue, and actually took the time to fix it. Yay. I can't be sure of this of course, I mean maybe I just got lucky, but somehow I don't think so. So I am thanking you, and that other UA-camr I can't remember their name, for bringing this issue to the light of day thereby saving myself and who knows how many other G0602 buyers a goodly amount of work. Just wanted to let you know! Thanks again.
Great video I am going to go check my G0602 for that same issue. By the way I did all the upgrades such as installing the Electronic lead screw and it has worked flawlessly. I also changed the 110v electric motor to the 3ph motor and added the VFD to get variable speed. Also you do not have to comment anything on what I wrote I know you read all our comments, just wanted you to know how much you are appreciated. Thanks James!!
I always enjoy your small lathe videos. You tackle the stuff that causes us all problems and your improvements are fabulous. These small lathes are very capable but they require attention and the cross slide/tool post area is where all of my rigidity is lost. Your lathe performs like a far more expensive one. You’re ELS and other modifications are awesome too. Great video man
As always, I have found your methodical presentation to be both informative and entertaining. The fact that you mix and match a variety of subjects is another aspect your channel that keeps me coming back. Between: software, hardware design, and of course, Yak Shaving, I cannot stay away. I think it is interesting that your attention to the cross-slide mfg. issue only came to light when thinking about the related rigidity of the compound. It makes us mere mortals feel less myopic in a case like this, when compared to someone, who I believe to be very observant. Thanks for including this content.
Nice analysis and a common sense fix. Thanks. On the sticking warp in the cross slide, I'd probably first check the contact surface of cross slide on a surface plate to see if it's the slide itself then the flats of the carriage to see if they are flat, parallel.
I see both scraping and a surface grinder in your very near future! Looking forward to your take on the solid tool post too. I've watched a number of videos on it but there is always information that isn't included, and knowing your level of thoroughness, we are in for some detail!
Good diagnosis and fix. I'd be tempted to check the cross slide bottom on a surface plate and scrape it flat, then check the cross slide ways with the flat cross slide. Once that's matched do the same with the compound base and cross slide top, scraping the first flat and matching the latter. That way it wouldn't add stresses to the cross slide when clamped down.
Great Video as always ! Now you have me wondering about my Logan 922 lathe it has the same problem with making chamfers a light chamfer is all I can get before it chatters real badly.... and that is with almost everything tight ! or dragging so hard it is unpleasant to use ! seeing how you did that repair opens up new areas for me ! thank you once again for your insight !
Well done James. Disassembly and reassembly is always faster when repeated, especially when the operations are back to back 😜. So there’s that …… 👍👍😎👍👍
I finally picked up a pair of those Knipex plier-wrenches last week, after hearing you mention them ~2 years ago. I don't think I'm ever going to reach for a crescent wrench again, and hardly ever a box-end either.
So, what I'm taking away from this video is... if I buy a lathe, add part of the initial set up, to inspect tolerances and clearances using a feller gauge and maybe check bearings for flatness if able. Cool. I love learning stuff like that! True it's possibly expensive for you to find that out but it's cheap for me to learn that lesson.
Yes. Most inexpensive import machine tools need a little love right from the factory. Many people consider them 'casting kits' for building your own machine tool. :)
I never thought of checking gibb height. I assumed the fit was from warped pieces. I did replace the 2 bolt ring clamp for the compound and it made a huge difference on reducing deflection, 4 bolts and a 5/8 plate is mo bettah than the ring. I have the exact compound setup on my G0752. Time to check all the gibbs in the mill and lathe. Thanks! That Shars QCTP is way better than what it comes with, I have the exact same one. My next compound upgrade will be a plate with T nuts so I can adjust the Tool Post front to back without moving the compound. I believe this will reduce deflection a bit more as the compound will not have to cantilever to machine smaller pieces, I can just move the T nuts back and keep the compound centered. Make Chips!!!
Well Done !! Guess I'll Be taking mine back a part. Mine had a bur a the back of the gibe and a notch in the dove tail. Preventing full travel. This is my first lath of 17 years. I just cut really slow. Never knew where the bearing surface was. Think it's time to do full break down of all sliding / bearing surfaces.
I have both a Grizzly Lathe and a Mill and they both needed some serious finishing TLC to get them in top working condition. My mill was noisy as hell right from the factory and that was due to the idler pulley for the speed change belts having an egg shaped bushing and the front set of pulleys were not aligned with the rear set through the idler. My intent all along was to put a three phase motor with a VFD (now very reasonably priced these days) Once I did this and aligned the pulleys properly it got dead silent! I always suspected that the spindle bearings were crap too , but they showed very minimal run out. I took the idler pulley out of the drive circuit completely and it runs great now. Along with some other tweeking, scraping, and adjusts both machines work well now. I also added electrtonic RPM gauges to the motor shaft and the spindle shaft to keep track of motor efficiency and actual cutting speed RPM.
Sorry I should have mentioned the cover before you put the cross slide back on. My bad! I have a 9x20 lathe and although it's small, since I put the fixed cross slide on, it made a world of difference in my rigidity. I took my cue from Robin Renzetti and Stephan Gotteswinter and have never regretted trading the compound slide for the rigidity of a fixed post on the cross slide. I can always add it back if I have a special case situation. Seeing that you still need work on the compound/cross slide makes me think it's time for you to get a surface grinder. It adds a whole new dimension to your capabilities and a used one is a bargain, tool wise. Thanks for the tip about powder coating lettering with the laser. I don't have the cash or room for a fiber laser or one powerful enough for etching but I have an extra solid state laser head for my CNC plasma table.
It’s interesting. A couple of years ago I bought an Indian made attachment - a vertical table that can move up and down with a 90 degree base. The thing is about 10” tall by 6” wide. Basically well made. But the same problem with the dovetail. It didn’t touch on the gib side. Two problems. The gib was also too high. But also the acute edge was sharp, but the inside “corner” of the dovetail is slightly rounded. So the gib couldn’t possibly sit flat. Removing that sharp edge and machining about a millimeter off the height fixed the problem. Amazing how some minor details get overlooked on otherwise decent machines.
Thanks for posting this video. I just checked my G0602 that I purchased in 2019 and it also has gap on the right side so it seems to be an endemic problem. I'm making a fixture to hold the gib in my milling machine vise right now so I can give it a light trim with ye olde dovetail cutter.
Another way to cut a gib is to put it in the cross slide and mount the cross slide upside down on the mill table. Shim under the gib the amount you want as clearance and mill the gib flush with the cross slide. I used adjustable parallels as a clamp to hold the gib.
The fixture I made to hold the gib with my milling machine vise worked great and I ended up taking 10 thou off each side because it was both oversize and slightly bowed. After reinstalling the gib I did some facing and turning on a hunk of 4140 with no chatter and very good chip formation, then tried parting off a 3/4" aluminum rod and at no point did I get the usual feeling that the stock was going to ride up over the top of the parting blade like I usually do, so definitely a win.
Hi James; I have a 9x20 Grizzly G4000 lathe. The compound flexes too much to be usable as is so a long time ago I made a John Pitkin Donut mount. You can search for this on line. My Thanks to John for coming up with this compound mount!
I appreciate this so much! I've already had the saddle off to relieve it for cnc conversion, but I didn't think to check these tolerances. I definitely feel like I have this same issue on my G0602.
I scraped in the cross slide on my lathe, no surface grinder, also fitted a solid tool post to replace the compound slide. Great improvement but I do miss the taper turning ability.
I also have an old Boxford 125TCL lathe which was to be upgraded to modern CNC use. I have actually now decided to fit it up with The German made ELS system as I think it will be better than CNC for one offs.
Oh boy I certainly do apologize for not telling you about leaving that part out. In my defense I thought you did not want it any more. 😉😊 Great video, thanks.
Thanks for the video! I have the same issue with my ZX45 mill and maybee the same on my lathe CQ6230A. When I saw this on my mill a few weeks ago I just wondered if it should be like this. Now you have confirm my thoughts.
Great video.......and surprisingly........humor??? Keep up the humor for sure. I have a somewhat similar issue with the saddle. When handmoving the saddle left or right in small adjustments......it tends to stick and you have to use two hands to move it a small amount smoothly. I did try different oils for the ways....but little or no difference. Removing the saddle I found the runners that meet the ways were covered with some kind of synthetic straps which run on the ways. So there was no metal to metal contact. Have you ever heard of a situation like that???? The lathe is about the same size as yours I think. 13inch swing by 24 inches.....1.5 horse motor. I 'very had this lathe for about 3 years........and I'm kinda passed at that setup. Under power feed it's OK. I feel somewhat cheated.....and as a result they probably didn't have to harden the ways....... any thoughts?????
G0752 here and I’ve had mine apart many times, there should be some angled pins in front of the gib screws that bear on the gib. Following Stephan Gotteswinter I’ve upgraded mine with a solid tool post, you can always put the compound on if needed. Also angular contact bearing in the cross slide and compound, and recently added a bearing in the tail stock. At some point the spindle bearings will be upgraded to a higher class bearing…lol. It’s a decent lathe now.
I was surprised to find thrust bearings on the cross slide screw. However, the dial is marked as 0.060" per revolution, but it's actually an M10x1.5mm screw, which explains why I always come up a few tenths short, no matter how careful I am to split the final two cuts. What I'd really like to do is put in a 12TPI Acme screw, with a planetary reduction in the handwheel for .100" direct reading per revolution. That's probably more work than it's worth, but it would be fun.
@@Clough42 My cross slide hand wheel was marked .002” so big line to big line is .010” I think it’s .120” per revolution if I remember correctly. Your imagination is the only limit on the possible upgrades. I moved my big rear splash guard back about 4” and up level with the top of the electrical cabinet, this gives way more room for indicating around the chuck. I added aluminum sheet stock from the bottom of the splash guard to the chip pan, all riveted together. Also built a tool rack at the top of the splash guard that will hold about 20 tools.
Another excellent video. Thank you for all your work on bringing these videos to us. I am considering buying a Grizzly G0602 but would like to know if the 25mm bore will accept a 1” shaft through the bore or will it be 0.4mm short of allowing a 1” shaft to pass through. Any response or information on this question will be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for a great video. Very well done.
The Warco and Precision Mathew’s importers often have the same problems with their smaller machines. None of these companies really inspect their machines. They get them in, and ship them out. The only real differences are the paint, the name and small options the real manufacturer offers them.
I was hoping my G0602 had a similar issue so I could gain some rigidity, but it looks fine. I subscribed so that I don't miss out on your solid tool post mod. Thanks!
Order one of these G0602 lathes back in early 2007, it arrived defective in similar problems with the compound and remarkable amount of slop in the cross slide.. Sent it back to Grizzly, no thanks.. Replaced it with the G4002 few months later.. Been with the G4002 since 2007, it's been a reasonable bench top lathe for the cost and what it's capable of..
James, with your mill you can make a real gib, mill that slide and replace this "gib stripe". It makes a huge difference replacing just point contacts under the screws with a real planar surface.
@@Clough42 sorry for that unclear "real gib", i mean "wedge" design, it have different thickness from start to end and axial adjustment with one or two screws. For that upgrade you need to mill gib side of a dovetail on the saddle and make new gib. Usually, gibs are machined from cast iron or heat treated steel. For my lathe i make replacement gib from bronze, it's easy to get for me, there we don't have McMaster with all materials in small chunks.
My chinese milling machine form Bernardo (dealer in Austria) also has numerous flaws and esp. accuracy problems. Unfortunately I only discovered way too late.
Quality Control and a fine fit/finish cost money. There's a reason these are cheap, and that reason is that they save on the labor cost of taking it to a higher level of precision. It's initially disappointing as a consumer, but it does mean that you can tune it to a level much higher than you would expect given the cost. It's entirely a matter of what *YOUR* time is worth.
@@samvandellen3695 Sure. But deviations by a factor of 10 larger than in the Quality Control check sheet, this is just blatant lying. And the flaws of that Bernardo machine are beyond my capabilities to repair. The ways would have to be ground with lots of material removal, and then everything scraped in. Not possible for me.
The side to side clearance issue is caused (imo) from the mounting method of the compound. I found on my lathe that once the compound was removed from the cross slide, the movement of the cross slide was very tight. I probably had the compound too tight, but this seemed worth mentioning.
I bolted my lathe of that size down to a length of 200 by 50 mm (so 8 inch by 2 inch) rolled hollow section with a 3 mm wall (I paid extra for a machine with a better factory finish too, Optimum). I'm sure you can imagine how much weight and rigidity it added to the lathe. I am pretty tall so it also lifted the lathe a little higher off my bench for me.
Your channel helped me put a vfd on my hardinge hlv and I'm looking forward to a solid toolpost conversion to copy. I'm so impressed with my heavyweight toolroom lathe and really cheap too considering what they cost new and the tooling it came with. Could you ever do a series of videos on commisioning a quality lathe? Do you have room James?
I started making a solid tool post for my bench top lathe but am constantly second guessing myself. Most of the problems in day to day work have been fixed by fixing minor issues such as this and snugging up everything down. Diminishing returns with solid tool post I reckon but I'll end up finishing it since I'm half done.
In a heavy cut, I can see the compound on my lathe flexing visibly. A better compound clamp would definitely help, at a minimum, but I figure I might as well see what a solid plinth is like, for comparison.
Hi, James! I own the same lathe, just a different brand. I'm looking forward to your toolpost design. That will be a no-brainer copy and paste for me! Hope the TI boards will be back on stock soon. I want to copy your leadscrew, too. Take care, Markus!
5:30 This is such simple but paramount info, I wish someone would make a vid of how to check everything on a machine for stuff like this. For instance how do you know the top surface shouldnt contact? I would have no Idea thats a problem unless someone told me...
You either learn this from a book or by observing the mechanics of the machine or knowing from either option what a dovetail guide is and how it works and what actually matters. Simple case of 'learn more' :D
Great video as always. Considering the top of the dovetail was high and the gib was too tall, I wonder if it was the cross slide that as actually too short. But all things considered, this looks like a wonderful solution. Not sure how much it would matter in practical use, but how level/parallel is the top of the cross slide?
I measured everything pretty carefully. The bearing surfaces of the dovetails in the saddle were the same height, but the top (non-bearing) surfaces were not the same height at all. If the slide had been cut deep enough, it wouldn't have mattered. I thought about doing that, but there is significant risk of it twisting as material is removed and stresses are relieved, and I didn't think it was worth the risk.
How parallel is the top surface of the cross slide to the ways, now that you’ve dropped one side? I.e. if you take off the tool post and indicate the top of the cross slide, what’s the delta as you move the saddle + cross slide along the ways under the indicator?
@@makerdave42 I can’t tell from his answer. The cross slide is now sitting on the bearing surfaces of the saddle, which he says are the same height (and so level, I’d think). That should mean the bottom of the cross slide is now level, but I don’t know that its top is parallel to its bottom, especially since it’s bottom is apparently not flat (before tightening the gib). I quite liked your original question, but I don’t see how he answered it.
It really is quite gratifying solving big problems with a relatively small fix. Weird that it could pass qc like that though. Wonder what else you could fix 🤔. (Thought implanted... end signal)
On these lathes the term QC means " Quality Conditional".....it's conditional on the price you pay.....you only get what you pay for so the cheaper you go the less QC you'll get if any.
sooo you totally left out that there is dowels at the end of the set screws!! one had fallen out of the middle one of course and I couldn't get my gib aligned for about 6 hours chasing down the problem finally took everything apart lol all back in business
Really worth it to inspect all mating surfaces in any “lower” budget machine. A little secondary QC (or even design sometimes) is a small price to pay for all the cost savings (-8
Your comment about only having two bolts holding down the compound slide is a major contributing factor to its lack of rigidity got me thinking. I wonder about that because I checked Grizzly's bigger lathes as well as Precision Matthews' larger lathes and they all seem to be held down by only two bolts. I wonder if the issue is that the two bolts are not separated far enough from each other (the only thing that comes to mind if the larger lathes are OK with only two bolts holding down their compounds) or if there is some other issue, like the bottom of the compound not being machined flat letting it rock or flex under load. Anyway, your lathe is still more rigid than my vintage Craftsman 12" which sometimes feels like spaghetti. 😀
OK, I admit it. I’m another Grizzly lathe owner and I’ll be checking to see if I have a similar problem. Many owners of Grizzly machine tools have reported issues with improperly machined parts. That being said, if not for tools like these folks like me would not likely afford any tool. This is not a compliment but certainly a way to rationalize the purchase of sometimes sketchy equipment. I, like most people need to live within my means. Thanks for posting this video, very helpful.
Yep, headed out to check this now. Turns out I have no gap. But the Gibbs were a little loose.
.023 on the side closet to the chuck. Looks like I have another weekend project.
I have a Grizzly G9972Z, the bigger brother to your lathe... and after 15 years of using it, I too see a simlar gap, about 5 thou on my lathe! I guess that's my afternoon task. Great series, thanks!
I have the same lathe, without the gearbox. Although it's miles ahead of the old Craftsman/Atlas 12x36" machine I had before, now I have to get out the feeler gauges. Thanks a lot, James!
So do I and I got 'em out as well. Mine's good.
Note to self: Buy new tool, feeler gauges.
I have the same machine, and replacing the compound with a solid block makes a huge improvement in rigidity and reducing chatter. Before, I always had problems parting off; now it’s smooth and easy.
As Stefan would say, “These imported machines can be very good, but you have to consider them as a kit that needs building correctly” or certainly words to that effect. He has had great results with his (much modified) lathe and does some incredibly accurate work. Great video, thanks for sharing.
Imported is a funny word, when the lathe was manufactured just 6 hours away from him.
@@an2thea514 6 hours is about 45 times the distance from the earth to the sun, there is nothing out there to import a lathe.
@@ChristophPech Well, EMCO made their lathes in Hallein, Stefan lives somewhere in middle Germany.
@@an2thea514 The distance from Hallein to Stefan Gotteswinter is about 667 microseconds. Considering walking distance according to Google maps it is a bit further, 704 microseconds.
@@ChristophPech so my point stands
I'm always impressed by your confidence to tackle the annoying little issues that most folks just put up with. Well done!!
Thanks! I put up with it for a long time. :(
I just want to say sorry, for all of us viewing, for not mentioning the dust shield sooner. That's totally on us.
I have the same lathe. Had to run to the shop to check mine. Yup, same thing! Thanks for sharing, now I can fix mine too!
Thanks for this insight. Made me go out to my Craftsman 12" lathe, and see if it had the same issue. It did not, but investigating it led me to discover another problem in the compound I hadn't realized I had! Now that's fixed too..
If the internet existed 20 years ago, my career choices would have been completely different! I can't believe you've only got 125K subscribing. Thanks for sharing this information (and the approach you take to systematically define and correct the issue(s) )
As a result of this video I think I understand more of the intrinsic operation of ways on machine tools function and how the carry the load. Thanks.
James; Thanks for the timely video. I have a smaller cousin to your lathe, a Harbor Freight 9" x 20" of 2005 vintage. I broke out the feeler gauges and I had the same elevation on the tailstock side of the cross slide. Hand finishing the gib strip and stoning of contact surfaces had a similar positive result as your video with the gap gone. Please keep up the thoughtful analysis you put in on your video productions!!
That's really interesting. I wonder if there's a story behind why so many machines are like this.
@@Clough42 Odd thing I found is that both the saddle surface and bottom of the cross slide contact surfaces were crudely hand scraped with very crude grinding tracks on the saddle. I would say this was more for appearance than function. Anyway the cuts now are much more solid though still limited by the small size and power native to this machine. Thanks again, LRU>
I worked in machining and fabrication for 47 years. I done my best work the second and third times. The trick is to keep it to yourself. Thanks for sharing your improvement.
i went straight out to my 80's Taiwanese lathe, got out the dial indicator and stand and continued my quest for more rigidity. Last week I sat my lathe on an improved bench and gained. I've found .002 movement in the bed to carriage and my compound has a little of the issue you just corrected. Won't be happy till my parting tool work well on steels. Thank you for the enlightenment.
Parting is the acid test for these little machines.
I wanted to thank you for this video. I just (1 week ago) received my G0602, which I bought new from Grizzly. I watched this video a couple of times months before buying the G0602. The first thing I did after getting it up on my bench was to check that cross slide and guess what? Everything was milled as it was supposed to be! The problem you had is not existent in mine. I am very sure the people at Grizzly have seen your video, and perhaps another one out there about the same issue, and actually took the time to fix it. Yay. I can't be sure of this of course, I mean maybe I just got lucky, but somehow I don't think so. So I am thanking you, and that other UA-camr I can't remember their name, for bringing this issue to the light of day thereby saving myself and who knows how many other G0602 buyers a goodly amount of work. Just wanted to let you know! Thanks again.
Same here, I just got my G0602 and the cross slide is perfect. They have fixed the problem.
thank you for showing the details of how the details of how the dovetails are supposed to fit! Well done.
I just got my G0602 and the cross slide is perfect. They have fixed the problem.
I don't have a Grizzly, but I DO have a chattering lathe, and now I'm off to dig out my feeler gauges, because you've set me thinking. Many thanks!
Great video I am going to go check my G0602 for that same issue. By the way I did all the upgrades such as installing the Electronic lead screw and it has worked flawlessly. I also changed the 110v electric motor to the 3ph motor and added the VFD to get variable speed. Also you do not have to comment anything on what I wrote I know you read all our comments, just wanted you to know how much you are appreciated. Thanks James!!
Yet another EXCELLENT video, it's wonderful to watch you determine what the issue is, figure out how to fix it, and then see how you do it!
I always enjoy your small lathe videos. You tackle the stuff that causes us all problems and your improvements are fabulous. These small lathes are very capable but they require attention and the cross slide/tool post area is where all of my rigidity is lost. Your lathe performs like a far more expensive one. You’re ELS and other modifications are awesome too. Great video man
As always, I have found your methodical presentation to be both informative and entertaining. The fact that you mix and match a variety of subjects is another aspect your channel that keeps me coming back. Between: software, hardware design, and of course, Yak Shaving, I cannot stay away. I think it is interesting that your attention to the cross-slide mfg. issue only came to light when thinking about the related rigidity of the compound. It makes us mere mortals feel less myopic in a case like this, when compared to someone, who I believe to be very observant. Thanks for including this content.
Yeah, I think in a lot of cases, if it works, it isn't worth looking too closely. :)
Nice analysis and a common sense fix. Thanks. On the sticking warp in the cross slide, I'd probably first check the contact surface of cross slide on a surface plate to see if it's the slide itself then the flats of the carriage to see if they are flat, parallel.
I see both scraping and a surface grinder in your very near future! Looking forward to your take on the solid tool post too. I've watched a number of videos on it but there is always information that isn't included, and knowing your level of thoroughness, we are in for some detail!
The added capacity must feel very liberating. Congratulations 🙂
Good diagnosis and fix. I'd be tempted to check the cross slide bottom on a surface plate and scrape it flat, then check the cross slide ways with the flat cross slide. Once that's matched do the same with the compound base and cross slide top, scraping the first flat and matching the latter. That way it wouldn't add stresses to the cross slide when clamped down.
Great Video as always ! Now you have me wondering about my Logan 922 lathe
it has the same problem with making chamfers a light chamfer is all I can get before it chatters real badly.... and that is with almost everything tight ! or dragging so hard it is unpleasant to use ! seeing how you did that repair opens up new areas for me ! thank you
once again for your insight !
Well done James. Disassembly and reassembly is always faster when repeated, especially when the operations are back to back 😜. So there’s that …… 👍👍😎👍👍
I finally picked up a pair of those Knipex plier-wrenches last week, after hearing you mention them ~2 years ago. I don't think I'm ever going to reach for a crescent wrench again, and hardly ever a box-end either.
They're a game-changer. This becomes especially clear once you start ratcheting them over the flats to tighten a nut without lifting the wrench.
Good catch, James! I can see how a mismatch like that could go undetected. 👍
So, what I'm taking away from this video is... if I buy a lathe, add part of the initial set up, to inspect tolerances and clearances using a feller gauge and maybe check bearings for flatness if able. Cool. I love learning stuff like that! True it's possibly expensive for you to find that out but it's cheap for me to learn that lesson.
Yes. Most inexpensive import machine tools need a little love right from the factory. Many people consider them 'casting kits' for building your own machine tool. :)
Great work James the best fix’s are always the easiest and your results at the end prove it. Keep up the good work.
I never thought of checking gibb height. I assumed the fit was from warped pieces. I did replace the 2 bolt ring clamp for the compound and it made a huge difference on reducing deflection, 4 bolts and a 5/8 plate is mo bettah than the ring. I have the exact compound setup on my G0752. Time to check all the gibbs in the mill and lathe. Thanks! That Shars QCTP is way better than what it comes with, I have the exact same one. My next compound upgrade will be a plate with T nuts so I can adjust the Tool Post front to back without moving the compound. I believe this will reduce deflection a bit more as the compound will not have to cantilever to machine smaller pieces, I can just move the T nuts back and keep the compound centered.
Make Chips!!!
Well Done !! Guess I'll Be taking mine back a part. Mine had a bur a the back of the gibe and a notch in the dove tail. Preventing full travel. This is my first lath of 17 years. I just cut really slow. Never knew where the bearing surface was. Think it's time to do full break down of all sliding / bearing surfaces.
Recently received my Grizzly G0602Z. Thanks for sharing this, I'll be checking cross-slide clearance later today.
This is an excellent contribution to the community. Thank you kindly!
good fix...i have the same type of lathe...let me check for gaps
Great video. Nice work. I upgraded to the 6 bolt compound holder it was a tremendous improvement. Thank you for sharing.
I have both a Grizzly Lathe and a Mill and they both needed some serious finishing TLC to get them in top working condition. My mill was noisy as hell right from the factory and that was due to the idler pulley for the speed change belts having an egg shaped bushing and the front set of pulleys were not aligned with the rear set through the idler. My intent all along was to put a three phase motor with a VFD (now very reasonably priced these days) Once I did this and aligned the pulleys properly it got dead silent! I always suspected that the spindle bearings were crap too , but they showed very minimal run out. I took the idler pulley out of the drive circuit completely and it runs great now. Along with some other tweeking, scraping, and adjusts both machines work well now. I also added electrtonic RPM gauges to the motor shaft and the spindle shaft to keep track of motor efficiency and actual cutting speed RPM.
Sorry I should have mentioned the cover before you put the cross slide back on. My bad! I have a 9x20 lathe and although it's small, since I put the fixed cross slide on, it made a world of difference in my rigidity. I took my cue from Robin Renzetti and Stephan Gotteswinter and have never regretted trading the compound slide for the rigidity of a fixed post on the cross slide. I can always add it back if I have a special case situation. Seeing that you still need work on the compound/cross slide makes me think it's time for you to get a surface grinder. It adds a whole new dimension to your capabilities and a used one is a bargain, tool wise. Thanks for the tip about powder coating lettering with the laser. I don't have the cash or room for a fiber laser or one powerful enough for etching but I have an extra solid state laser head for my CNC plasma table.
It’s interesting. A couple of years ago I bought an Indian made attachment - a vertical table that can move up and down with a 90 degree base. The thing is about 10” tall by 6” wide. Basically well made. But the same problem with the dovetail. It didn’t touch on the gib side. Two problems. The gib was also too high. But also the acute edge was sharp, but the inside
“corner” of the dovetail is slightly rounded. So the gib couldn’t possibly sit flat. Removing that sharp edge and machining about a millimeter off the height fixed the problem.
Amazing how some minor details get overlooked on otherwise decent machines.
Thanks for posting this video. I just checked my G0602 that I purchased in 2019 and it also has gap on the right side so it seems to be an endemic problem. I'm making a fixture to hold the gib in my milling machine vise right now so I can give it a light trim with ye olde dovetail cutter.
Another way to cut a gib is to put it in the cross slide and mount the cross slide upside down on the mill table. Shim under the gib the amount you want as clearance and mill the gib flush with the cross slide. I used adjustable parallels as a clamp to hold the gib.
The fixture I made to hold the gib with my milling machine vise worked great and I ended up taking 10 thou off each side because it was both oversize and slightly bowed. After reinstalling the gib I did some facing and turning on a hunk of 4140 with no chatter and very good chip formation, then tried parting off a 3/4" aluminum rod and at no point did I get the usual feeling that the stock was going to ride up over the top of the parting blade like I usually do, so definitely a win.
Hi James; I have a 9x20 Grizzly G4000 lathe. The compound flexes too much to be usable as is so a long time ago I made a John Pitkin Donut mount. You can search for this on line. My Thanks to John for coming up with this compound mount!
Thanks for the tips 👍 I'm going to run out and check my G4000 for the same thing.
Can't wait to see the solid tool post. I just made one for my 9x20. It'll be interesting to see your version.
Thanx James these kil educational videos are the ones I enjoy the most !
Interesting video. Attention to detail is the key to precision. Nice job
I appreciate this so much! I've already had the saddle off to relieve it for cnc conversion, but I didn't think to check these tolerances. I definitely feel like I have this same issue on my G0602.
Thanks James, I'll have to check mine once I get it out of the crate.
Yes thank you for this video! I have been having the same issue with my lathe. I will definitely be taking apart when I get in the shop.
My 2002 Griz mini lathe, same problem. Never got much use out of the cross slide. Used it as a grinder.
I scraped in the cross slide on my lathe, no surface grinder, also fitted a solid tool post to replace the compound slide. Great improvement but I do miss the taper turning ability.
Time for an electronic compound.
I also have an old Boxford 125TCL lathe which was to be upgraded to modern CNC use. I have actually now decided to fit it up with The German made ELS system as I think it will be better than CNC for one offs.
Oh boy I certainly do apologize for not telling you about leaving that part out. In my defense I thought you did not want it any more. 😉😊 Great video, thanks.
I think you did a fine job diagnosing the problem and correcting it
Thanks for the video! I have the same issue with my ZX45 mill and maybee the same on my lathe CQ6230A. When I saw this on my mill a few weeks ago I just wondered if it should be like this. Now you have confirm my thoughts.
Looking forward to see how you're going to replace the compound with a solid tool post because it's also my issue with my benchtop lathe.
Good heads up. Never would have thought to check that!
Great video.......and surprisingly........humor??? Keep up the humor for sure. I have a somewhat similar issue with the saddle. When handmoving the saddle left or right in small adjustments......it tends to stick and you have to use two hands to move it a small amount smoothly. I did try different oils for the ways....but little or no difference. Removing the saddle I found the runners that meet the ways were covered with some kind of synthetic straps which run on the ways. So there was no metal to metal contact. Have you ever heard of a situation like that???? The lathe is about the same size as yours I think. 13inch swing by 24 inches.....1.5 horse motor. I 'very had this lathe for about 3 years........and I'm kinda passed at that setup. Under power feed it's OK. I feel somewhat cheated.....and as a result they probably didn't have to harden the ways....... any thoughts?????
G0752 here and I’ve had mine apart many times, there should be some angled pins in front of the gib screws that bear on the gib. Following Stephan Gotteswinter I’ve upgraded mine with a solid tool post, you can always put the compound on if needed. Also angular contact bearing in the cross slide and compound, and recently added a bearing in the tail stock.
At some point the spindle bearings will be upgraded to a higher class bearing…lol.
It’s a decent lathe now.
I was surprised to find thrust bearings on the cross slide screw. However, the dial is marked as 0.060" per revolution, but it's actually an M10x1.5mm screw, which explains why I always come up a few tenths short, no matter how careful I am to split the final two cuts. What I'd really like to do is put in a 12TPI Acme screw, with a planetary reduction in the handwheel for .100" direct reading per revolution. That's probably more work than it's worth, but it would be fun.
@@Clough42 My cross slide hand wheel was marked .002” so big line to big line is .010” I think it’s .120” per revolution if I remember correctly. Your imagination is the only limit on the possible upgrades. I moved my big rear splash guard back about 4” and up level with the top of the electrical cabinet, this gives way more room for indicating around the chuck. I added aluminum sheet stock from the bottom of the splash guard to the chip pan, all riveted together. Also built a tool rack at the top of the splash guard that will hold about 20 tools.
Another excellent video. Thank you for all your work on bringing these videos to us. I am considering buying a Grizzly G0602 but would like to know if the 25mm bore will accept a 1” shaft through the bore or will it be 0.4mm short of allowing a 1” shaft to pass through. Any response or information on this question will be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for a great video. Very well done.
Great video, now I need to go downstairs and check my Grizzly Lathe for that issue
Glad to hear you got this sorted. Makes me wonder about Grizzly machines now. That should never have left the factory like that.
It's cheap Chinese stuff. All of them will need some work from the owner to get everything right.
The Warco and Precision Mathew’s importers often have the same problems with their smaller machines. None of these companies really inspect their machines. They get them in, and ship them out. The only real differences are the paint, the name and small options the real manufacturer offers them.
Nice job.
These lathes have a lot more potential with time and effort than they achieve when they are made to a meet price point.
I was hoping my G0602 had a similar issue so I could gain some rigidity, but it looks fine. I subscribed so that I don't miss out on your solid tool post mod. Thanks!
Enjoyed the whole process. Great job!
Order one of these G0602 lathes back in early 2007, it arrived defective in similar problems with the compound and remarkable amount of slop in the cross slide.. Sent it back to Grizzly, no thanks.. Replaced it with the G4002 few months later.. Been with the G4002 since 2007, it's been a reasonable bench top lathe for the cost and what it's capable of..
Great improvement and discussion
Interesting thanks, I'm learning lots about machine tools from videos like this. Tomorrow I know what I'm checking on my lathe :)
Thanks for the video! I have a pm 1127 and went right out to check mine.
James, with your mill you can make a real gib, mill that slide and replace this "gib stripe". It makes a huge difference replacing just point contacts under the screws with a real planar surface.
By "real gib" do you just mean one that's machined/scraped more accurately, or are you talking about a different design?
@@Clough42 sorry for that unclear "real gib", i mean "wedge" design, it have different thickness from start to end and axial adjustment with one or two screws. For that upgrade you need to mill gib side of a dovetail on the saddle and make new gib. Usually, gibs are machined from cast iron or heat treated steel. For my lathe i make replacement gib from bronze, it's easy to get for me, there we don't have McMaster with all materials in small chunks.
I think you should have remembered to install the dust shield earlier....lol ... Thanks for sharing ... Stay safe and well ...
Now I need to take a good look at my 14x40. Nice job on that.
Heading home to check my lathe.
And make a new chip guard to on under the cross slide. I've only have a piece of perspex.
Sounds like Grizzly needs to do some quality control. Great job honing in on those small, yet super important details.
When you buy a Chinese machine you are quality control.😢
This is very true. And if you're ready and willing to take it on, it can make for a good deal.
My chinese milling machine form Bernardo (dealer in Austria) also has numerous flaws and esp. accuracy problems. Unfortunately I only discovered way too late.
Quality Control and a fine fit/finish cost money. There's a reason these are cheap, and that reason is that they save on the labor cost of taking it to a higher level of precision. It's initially disappointing as a consumer, but it does mean that you can tune it to a level much higher than you would expect given the cost. It's entirely a matter of what *YOUR* time is worth.
@@samvandellen3695 Sure. But deviations by a factor of 10 larger than in the Quality Control check sheet, this is just blatant lying. And the flaws of that Bernardo machine are beyond my capabilities to repair. The ways would have to be ground with lots of material removal, and then everything scraped in. Not possible for me.
The side to side clearance issue is caused (imo) from the mounting method of the compound. I found on my lathe that once the compound was removed from the cross slide, the movement of the cross slide was very tight. I probably had the compound too tight, but this seemed worth mentioning.
I bolted my lathe of that size down to a length of 200 by 50 mm (so 8 inch by 2 inch) rolled hollow section with a 3 mm wall (I paid extra for a machine with a better factory finish too, Optimum). I'm sure you can imagine how much weight and rigidity it added to the lathe. I am pretty tall so it also lifted the lathe a little higher off my bench for me.
This is amazing. Wouldn't have thought to look there.
Your channel helped me put a vfd on my hardinge hlv and I'm looking forward to a solid toolpost conversion to copy. I'm so impressed with my heavyweight toolroom lathe and really cheap too considering what they cost new and the tooling it came with. Could you ever do a series of videos on commisioning a quality lathe? Do you have room James?
I'd love to, and no, I don't have room. :)
Thanks for showing your fix on the Grizzly lathe.
Very nicely done. But now it means that I have to check and possibly do the same on my identical lathe.😲
I've got the Canadian busy bee brand model of pretty much the same thing, I'll have to go fishing around now, thanks!
I started making a solid tool post for my bench top lathe but am constantly second guessing myself. Most of the problems in day to day work have been fixed by fixing minor issues such as this and snugging up everything down. Diminishing returns with solid tool post I reckon but I'll end up finishing it since I'm half done.
In a heavy cut, I can see the compound on my lathe flexing visibly. A better compound clamp would definitely help, at a minimum, but I figure I might as well see what a solid plinth is like, for comparison.
Many thanks for this. Heading out to check my lathe for the same issue. Cheers.
Hi, James!
I own the same lathe, just a different brand. I'm looking forward to your toolpost design. That will be a no-brainer copy and paste for me! Hope the TI boards will be back on stock soon. I want to copy your leadscrew, too.
Take care, Markus!
I saw today that TI has them in stock, if you order directly from them. Mouser and Digi-Key do not yet.
Good effort. The traditional way to do this is by scraping by hand.
5:30 This is such simple but paramount info, I wish someone would make a vid of how to check everything on a machine for stuff like this.
For instance how do you know the top surface shouldnt contact? I would have no Idea thats a problem unless someone told me...
Good idea, B&BF
You either learn this from a book or by observing the mechanics of the machine or knowing from either option what a dovetail guide is and how it works and what actually matters. Simple case of 'learn more' :D
@@JaakkoF Can you recommend some books?
Great video as always. Considering the top of the dovetail was high and the gib was too tall, I wonder if it was the cross slide that as actually too short. But all things considered, this looks like a wonderful solution. Not sure how much it would matter in practical use, but how level/parallel is the top of the cross slide?
I measured everything pretty carefully. The bearing surfaces of the dovetails in the saddle were the same height, but the top (non-bearing) surfaces were not the same height at all. If the slide had been cut deep enough, it wouldn't have mattered. I thought about doing that, but there is significant risk of it twisting as material is removed and stresses are relieved, and I didn't think it was worth the risk.
How parallel is the top surface of the cross slide to the ways, now that you’ve dropped one side? I.e. if you take off the tool post and indicate the top of the cross slide, what’s the delta as you move the saddle + cross slide along the ways under the indicator?
@@benjaminscarlet Based on James' response I'd guess it was off before but it's more parallel now.
@@makerdave42 I can’t tell from his answer. The cross slide is now sitting on the bearing surfaces of the saddle, which he says are the same height (and so level, I’d think). That should mean the bottom of the cross slide is now level, but I don’t know that its top is parallel to its bottom, especially since it’s bottom is apparently not flat (before tightening the gib).
I quite liked your original question, but I don’t see how he answered it.
Great vid and thanks for the information on what to look for on these cross slides. Also, sorry about forgetting to remind about the shield.
Nice job and great improvement.
I love all of your content, expeically videos about the G0602
no, You watched this twice. And enjoyed both times. You foooool..... :D
I feel really bad that I forgot to warn you about the chip shield. Other than that, great video, as usual.
Glad to watch and learn this,, now I want to recheck my Jet BD920W
It really is quite gratifying solving big problems with a relatively small fix. Weird that it could pass qc like that though. Wonder what else you could fix 🤔.
(Thought implanted... end signal)
On these lathes the term QC means " Quality Conditional".....it's conditional on the price you pay.....you only get what you pay for so the cheaper you go the less QC you'll get if any.
Great troubleshooting James. Now I'm gonna have to check mine! 😂 Ciao, Marco.
sooo you totally left out that there is dowels at the end of the set screws!! one had fallen out of the middle one of course and I couldn't get my gib aligned for about 6 hours chasing down the problem finally took everything apart lol all back in business
Very worthwhile for all Grizzly owners and users of China origin tools in general.
Really worth it to inspect all mating surfaces in any “lower” budget machine. A little secondary QC (or even design sometimes) is a small price to pay for all the cost savings (-8
Yeah, I should have checked it sooner. I've known about it for a little while, but didn't realize it was the gib.
Great video. Will be checking my lathe tonight as well. Thanks
Your comment about only having two bolts holding down the compound slide is a major contributing factor to its lack of rigidity got me thinking. I wonder about that because I checked Grizzly's bigger lathes as well as Precision Matthews' larger lathes and they all seem to be held down by only two bolts. I wonder if the issue is that the two bolts are not separated far enough from each other (the only thing that comes to mind if the larger lathes are OK with only two bolts holding down their compounds) or if there is some other issue, like the bottom of the compound not being machined flat letting it rock or flex under load. Anyway, your lathe is still more rigid than my vintage Craftsman 12" which sometimes feels like spaghetti. 😀
Some of these new tools leave a lot to be desired. Wonder how the contact surfaces would have checked out with dye?
Given there was a great big gap that I could swing a feeler gauge through, probably not well.
Much more stable, good fix!