Wrong. We are told in Coco that the person remembering him doesnt need to be related or known him in person. Instead, it is enough that a person who knew him and remembered his life work tells his story and their memory of him to another person. Eg.: Hector will live on even after Coco dies without issue because at the end of the movie Coco begins to tell stories about her dad to her family. Thus, ensuring that Hector will not meet his final death in a long time.
It's true because how can everyone else know the famous people without even meeting them personally because we're talking about next generation remember them but that doesn't mean they know them personally before they died
actually, in the movie Hector clearly states, and I quote: "Our memories.. they have to be passed down by those who knew us in life. in the stories they tell about us. " that clearly tells us that you don't have to know them to remember them, it tells us that a younger generation can be told about someone so that the younger ones remember them and carry on their memories so they have a longer afterlife in the land of the dead.
True. As we understand, technically as long as you can "remember" them you can keep them alive in the Land Of The Dead. @Uniwolf gamer has some excellent points about this too!
Have you watched the movie because it was quite clearly explained, that if a person, who knew them while they were alive, shares a memory about them. They can stay in the land of the dead as long as that memory is passed on.
Coco remember Hector fondly her father felt guilty of leaving on tour when murdered and felt sorry for Imelda he wrote the song for coco not just on tour when his great grandson gets his daughter to her senses she felt happy Miguel told her her father loved her so much if he ever came for her.🎸🎼💖👨👩👧👧🍂👨👩👧👧
flaw in your logic. you say - miguels memories of him don't count, because he only met him after he died - abuelita only knew OF him - so the only living person who knew him was coco, who died in the end but we see hector in the land of the living after all of that...
That is because coco shared that story with Miguel (after he sang the song, remember me), so ideally shared the story to the further living family. Hence his legacy continued.
Actually we see Miguel explaining his little sister about the dead people and we assume mama coco told Hector's stories to her children which would keep them alive considering that no one actually knew the famous theif while he was alive, they only knew his stories.
Bro, it was already explained that as long as their stories are passed down in life /by/ the people who knew them they'll continue to be remembered from generation to generation.
If you go by THAT logic, then Mamá Imelda will fade as well, cause the only ones to remember and SEEN her were Coco, her husband, and her grandchildren. Cause as we see in her design that she didn't die at an old age like Coco, since she still has full black hair with a few gray lines. Again as long as their stories are passed on, they could still remain in the land of the dead.
I always assumed that the dead look like how they do on the ofrenda. If you go by what age they die, most of Miguel’s family dies fairly early and the twins died around the same time. If they aren’t on the ofrenda then what ever age they died like Hector and Ernesto makes since.
@@EH-hm7dn But Mamá Imelda had completely black hair when she was younger in the Foto of her, Hector and Coco, but when we see her in the land of the dead she's more older with a few gray lines showing. So it proves that at whatever age you die that's the appearance you will have as a skeleton, no matter what foto is use on the ofrenda
its very likely imelda died maybe in her 50s since she lived what looks like over 100 years ago (judging by coco age looking close to 90) and we know lots of ppl 100 years ago that might not have even made it past 50 unless very good genes
I the movie Hector says that the memories of you have to be passed down by those who are living. So when mama coco started telling stories of her parents, she passed on her memories to her living family. That is why Hector didn't fade away when coco died.
You're forgetting the cultural context and also not giving Coco enough credit. She may have only been three years old when she last saw her papá, but she remembers a lot of details about him. Believe it or not, her dementia actually preserved Héctor's memory. Dementia deletes your memories from most recent to longest lasting. This results in the patient time traveling, so to speak. She gets bumped around on her personal timeline, seeing herself at the age she was when she made a given memory. Which is why she sometimes remembers her children and sometimes does not. Sometimes she is simply too far back on her timeline to realize she has kids. And since Héctor exists at the beginning of Coco's timeline, he is one of the last of her family to be forgotten. Please don't spread rumors about a Coco sequel. Nothing has been announced. You're quoting the plot of someone's fanfic. That should've been obvious from the suggestion that Alec Baldwin voice the villain. Pixar goes for authentic accents, so unless "Marcel" is an American who had the terrible misfortune of dying while vacationing in Cancun, Alec Baldwin is not voicing anyone. Besides, if he did, the real villain would turn out to be the guy who handles Baldwin's props, and Miguel would end up shot.
@Lee Brown Anyone who proves themselves in front of a national celebrity to have as much knowledge of gun safety as your average leftist politician deserves to be mocked online.
1 Hector was on the verge of disappearing when Coco passed the memory of him to the rest of the family, that's why he was "alive" at the end of the movie: the memory of him was safely in the minds and hearts of his family. 2 The purpose of the altar was to make it possible for the dead to pass over and visit the living. That's why Hector had survived for decades without his picture on any altar. 3 I suspect that, now that his crimes have been revealed, Ernesto will find his time in the Land of the Dead far less pleasant than before. As for people like Adolf Hitler and Mother Teresa, their cultures and views of the afterlife were very different from those depicted in Coco, so I think their experiences would also be very different.
*So forgetting isn't too bad at the end of it all, not at the beginning of course but souls have to be forgotten sooner or later. This ties well into the theory that the final death implies reincarnation.* *Like Carl or asner said : thanks for an adventure, now go have a new one.*
That would make a lot of sense. For reincarnation. Chicharron may appear as a background character if this was true. Would he recognize Miguel, given children say the scariest things, and say "Hey! You used my guitar!" Chicharron's new parents would be so freaking confused
At the end of the movie there is a scene of skeleton Coco hugging and walking next to Hector, so with your logic he shouldn't be there. Also soon after that we have a scene of a tour guide at the Rivera house, telling the stories of Hector's music and all the letters he had sent to his daughter as proof of being the author of Ernesto's songs. Meaning, Hector might actually be the only one that will be remembered in the future for a long time like Frida Kahlo was, as shown in the movie. But I dunno you tell me were your logic takes you (message not meant to be rude or condecending, this last frase was meant to be a joke).
I understand the case you want to make, but the presence of Frieda Kohlo proves that souls don't need to have met the person for their "memories" of them to count.
I don't think you necessarily have to be family/related to them for them to continue living in the land of the dead. There is one man who near the beginning of the movie was on his dentist's ofrenda. Even if he still had other family to remember him and tell his stories, they mostly only mentioned him being on his dentist's ofrenda.
Not necessarily. In CoCo, it’s just memories that need to be passed down and ensuring the picture is up that counts for the person being remembered. Obviously since this is based off dia de los muertos, that’s kinda how our culture is: it doesn’t matter if you knew the person, just as long as you keep their memories through stories and pictures alive in your hearts, they’re never truly forgotten and will continue to “live” on.
No, they don't have to have known them while alive. Being told stories about them suffices. It might help you to watch each movie a few times so you can catch all the details. I know it can be hard.
Hector will never fade because people will keep telling his stories just like Ernesto, who will also be remembered but not in a good way, so he’s not gonna fade for a long time. People will stop telling everyone about him since he was bad. He’ll disappear because people will stop putting up his photos.
It's stated in the movie that it's the memories and stories passed down from those who knew them in life, meaning that since Coco finally told the full story and who he ACTUALLY was in life instead of just "that man" or "papa" to her family who then told them to the rest of the world, Hector will be remembered for a very long time to come. Sadly Ernesto will also be remembered, but not in the same light any longer.
@@rainbowshinelove1208 yeah but eventually they’ll stop telling their kids about Ernesto. So he won’t fade for a super long time, but once there’s no one left alive that remembers him, and if they’re not telling their kids about him because he was bad, then he’ll disappear.
I disagree with some of this. First of all, I believe you just have to know them personally for their memory to live on. Secondly, when they experience 'The Final Death' they can't exactly "rest in piece" unless they have somewhere to rest. I think their souls are either destroyed or recarnated.
This is correct. Miguel's family discuss this at the beginning, they have the pictures and tell their stories so younger generations can know them without having met them. Coco also talks about how Hector played the song Miguel just played, so technically, though it's just a small detail, they were told of him by a living member of their family. She also pulls the photo out and introduces them to him.
Not exactly, hector said the memories had to be passed on from those that knew them in life, therefore if tons of people remember them via memories that at some point came from someone that knew them like how coco eventually passes on his letters and those letters are then passed onto the public and so on, then hector probably has a better chance at existing longer than the other members of his family with his songs being so famous.
Coco was forgetting Hector and when Miguel came back from being in the land of the dead and sang remember me to coco her memory regained. But if Miguel didn’t sing remember me, Then Hector would’ve been forgotten for good. But at the end, A lot of people where talking about his history and everyone would remember him including his family when coco found the missing part of the family photo. But before that coco was the only person who remembered him but it wasn’t just because nobody put his photo, it was basically because Miguel sang the song that Hector sang to coco as a kid.
You can pass down memories about from one generation to the other. Example: I am named after my great grandmother. I never met her due to the fact the she died one year before I was born. I don’t have physical memories but I have stories from my grandma and mamma about her. Sometimes I feel her around me
No they said that they live on through the memories of the living AND the stories told about them. At the end of the movie, since coco died, hector should have disappeared if she was the last person to actually remember him in life. However he is still around because coco finally opened up about her father so now his memory can live on in the stories told among the family and the people who now know that he originally was the song writer.
Hector won't die out completely because his story was told and corrected by Miguel and Coco. Miguel will keep Hector story alive . Miguel will continue the tradition.
Well I do love this video I've got to say, it explains in the movie that even when the people who actually knew the person who died dies, the person they knew can still live on in the land of the dead if they have shared the stories of that person to their loved ones. That's why Hector was so scared because Coco didn't share any stories about him and was starting to lose her memories in general of him but Miguel managed to stir up those memories and she passed down some stories of Hector(that and he just wanted to at least see his daughter one last time before he final death-ed)
“You can’t remember someone you never met” My brother, who remembers our great grandfather besides being born a few months after his death (because his weird child dreams): * fades away *
The rule is the memory has to be passed down, for example, ernesto probably had no children to speak of, seeing as how he was shocked to discover he had descendants, but he is still remembered by all those who listen to the music and remember him, also, hector knew that having miguel putting his picture on any ofrenda would work, even before they found out they were related, and the first time we see hector trying to cross the bridge, just before him is a man allowed to pass because his picture was on his dentist’s ofrenda, and while it’s possible that the two were family, the extreme amount of dental work seems the more likely reason, because the dentist remembered that man, and miguel might not have known hector in life, but he got a pretty good description of what his later part of life would have been like, if anything, he knows more about hector than coco did when she died, since she was a little girl when he left, and since hector is now being recognized as the true author of all the songs, people will remember him as the artist, so he will last for a while
I feel like you disproved your point about Hector’s legacy when you mentioned Delà Cruz’s character. Delà Cruz was surprised that he had a living relative to begin with and was straight vibing for a generation or two.
Hector kept a diary with all the lyrics of his songs and at the end of the movie this becomes a shrine showing all the lyrics inside of the diary... therefore everyone will remember him based on his stories inside the diary. your theory is flawed.
Doesn't seem like you paid attention to the movie, Hector said someone who knew you while you were alive has to pass down stories about you, so when mama coco told the family about him it was making it where more knew about him so he's not going anywhere. Plus if it needed to be someone who knew him while he was alive to remember him he would have went to the final death before mama coco even got there
I feel like thematically, the Final Death being reincarnation kinda makes more sense. In the way of you meeting the final death of wither not being someone worth remembering or outliving (for lack of a better word) your memory. So you fade into a new life to hopefully become someone worth remembering.
lol the character voiced by John Ratzenberger (the skeleton with the tooth bling) was able to go back to the Land of the Living because his dentist had his photo on the offrenda (sp?), disproving the notion that it had to be a living relative
I don't think they had to actually have met them for them to continue on existing in the land of the dead, they simply need to just know who they are in order to continue their existance, which is the point of setting up the pictures, so that future family members who have never met their ancestors can know who they were through being told from elder family members. In this way, their memory will live on forever as long as the family line continues to grow.
If being forgotten is a good thing? I rightfully say that it depends on the person and what they did in there lifetime Take Ernesto for example.he did bad things in his life and at the end of the movie got crushed by a bell Later on we see “forget you” on his statue of the memorial and the people know the story This means.he had the right to be forgotten
Well I have to say you make a great point with regarding the movie. But actually the tradition of the ofrenda is not about random people remembering you but your family, the people that truly love you. The stories of you that are past down generation after generation. So for instance like you mentioned Hitler he will only live as long as his loved ones remember him not as long as the world remembers. The ofrenda in made for your family not for your favorite celebrity, because in our culture or at least what I was taught family is the most important thing in our life. There are people that will make ofrendas for celebrities like Miguel did for Ernesto de la Cruz but it's to pay your respect to the person...
this reminds me of the manga "Houseki No Kuni" a.k.a. "the land of the lustrous"... the dead only want to go into nothingness, where they can finally rest for eternity. but as there's no human left on Earth to pray for them, they're unable to leave their purgatory... so they stay on the moon, for thousands of centuries, and they're deeply worn out of that situation.
The only one that had personal memory of Hector prior to Miguel was Coco. Hector died when Coco was young, there is no way her daughter could have any personal memory of him. This is an important plot point that Coco's is the only memory keeping him from passing on and explicit that he expected he would pass on at the same time she arrived. But Coco is clearly dead at the end yet he is still in the land of the dead. So Miguel's experience in the land of the dead must have counted as a personal memory once Miguel returned. Both Coco and Hector will likely pass on only when Miguel, being the youngest or only remember-er, either dies or forgets. Maybe Hector didn't know or realize that Miguel's return to the land of the living would also buy him more time and enable him and Coco to cohabitate the land of the dead. I see no evidence that ofrenda does anything beyond allowing them travel to the land of the living and is separate to them passing on from the land of the dead. Hector's only stated reason for asking Miguel (believing him to be a non-family member at the time) was so that he could see Coco in the land of the living before he passed on, because he expected to pass on when she died or finally lost her memory. This also means that not only does the ofrenda not need to be a family member, but the spirits can visit anywhere/anyone in the land of the living and not just wherever the ofrenda is.
wait!!... if Hector will be forgotten because coco is the last of family members to have a "living" memory of him, then when she dies then he should be forgotten... however we see him dancing with his wife in a small clip for the next movie of coco 2... does that not cancel this theory all together?...
Ah yes. "18 year old with depression caused by the loss of loved ones". As if the first movie haven't let me experienced enough grief and sadness. I was a wreck after watching "Coco".
I think the final death with lead the souls to their next life. In reincarnation. You see as long as someone remember you in living world, the soul would have something to hold on to. As long as they are totally forgotten, or their exact face is forgotten, they can move on to next life to make new memories
Except that's not right. It can be anyone that remembers you, like the skeleton that had a photo on his former dentist which is how they crossed over. Coco gave a memory to the family of her dad once she did know him as a little kid, they sang songs together all the time. It's like the rest of the family that is dead many weren't around for the younger kids, but they have memories of their time living. It's the same thing for Hector, as well as when it comes out that he is actually the famous one there will be people to remember him traveling. As well as photos of his time traveling, meaning more people remembering him.
You're wrong. By the time Hector actually gets to go back to the land of the living its the whole next year. And no one actually remembers him. He would've been gone already. You just need a picture on your offrenda and you can cross.
If you have to have actually known the person while they were alive for them to be remembered, then how do you explain Hector still being present at the end of the film after Coco’s passing.
This is not true. Hector explains to Miguel that a person's memories have to be passed on by people who knew them in life. Mama Coco does this at the end of the movie, meaning that Miguel, as well as the rest of the family who was present during Coco's retelling of her experiences and memories of her father, can now pass on the memories of Hector that they learned from Coco; and obviously, if no one else were to spread his stories, best believe Miguel will! So Hector likely won't be going anywhere anytime soon.
If you follow the logic when all life on Earth dies let's say when the sun explodes all Life in the Land of the Dead will be forgotten because there's no one left to remember them
you are so wrong if their photo is up and ANYONE remembers them they will not fade away the guy with that guitar did not have his picture up and no one remembered him anyway so he faded away!
At the end of the movie they are telling people of the real story between Hector and Ernesto and giving him credit for the songs he made so he will actually be remembered for a very long time. You... you didn’t see the movie, did you? Also there was never any announcement for Coco 2? Are you serious?
Yeah, this video is all wrong. They showed one guy going to the land of the living because his DENTIST put up his photo, and it's the PASSING DOWN OF STORIES by people that knew them while they were alive that keeps their memories active. Mama Coco passed on her story of Hector to Miguel after he played the song for her. This is the reason Hector still existed in the land of the dead at the end of the movie. If that didn't count, HE WOULD HAVE DISAPPEARED.
Wrong you don’t have to be blood to remember him. They made their house into a sort of museum for Hector. That how Ernesto stayed around and Frida Calo
Are you basing these opinions on a comprehensive study of the diverse South American cultures and their equally diverse views of the afterlife or are you imposing a Eurocentric view on Coco? Are you one of those people who were getting excited about the "Mayan apocalypse" while scholars who actually studied the Mayans were trying to explain that their belief that a new Era was coming had nothing to do with the end of the world?
It's not a good thing to be forgotten The Hispanic culture truly believes their loved ones live on after they pass away It is very sad when someone is forgotten
By this logic, characters like freda carlo and Ernesto would have already faded away already. You are also really inconsistent talking about famous people.
Wrong. We are told in Coco that the person remembering him doesnt need to be related or known him in person.
Instead, it is enough that a person who knew him and remembered his life work tells his story and their memory of him to another person. Eg.: Hector will live on even after Coco dies without issue because at the end of the movie Coco begins to tell stories about her dad to her family. Thus, ensuring that Hector will not meet his final death in a long time.
It's true because how can everyone else know the famous people without even meeting them personally because we're talking about next generation remember them but that doesn't mean they know them personally before they died
EXACTLY
Yes I very much agree
Agreed u have a very big brain
They did a poor job of explaining it, but they did acknowledge that fame in the living world allows a person to continue existing in the LotD.
actually, in the movie Hector clearly states, and I quote: "Our memories.. they have to be passed down by those who knew us in life. in the stories they tell about us. " that clearly tells us that you don't have to know them to remember them, it tells us that a younger generation can be told about someone so that the younger ones remember them and carry on their memories so they have a longer afterlife in the land of the dead.
And since they talk about hector and the songs he made for coco so he's going to be around for a good while
As well as the truth of where those songs came from our dear Hector will never be forgotten.
there’s a slight problem there, you don’t have to be blood related to the dead for them to continue living in the land of the dead
True. As we understand, technically as long as you can "remember" them you can keep them alive in the Land Of The Dead. @Uniwolf gamer has some excellent points about this too!
Yeah. One person's DENTIST had his photo on the offrenda ( dunno the spelling).
@@radhika2526 I noticed that! He must've been really good friends
@@radhika2526 I was thinking the same thing and that is the main counterpoint to his argument.
yes
Have you watched the movie because it was quite clearly explained, that if a person, who knew them while they were alive, shares a memory about them. They can stay in the land of the dead as long as that memory is passed on.
Coco remember Hector fondly her father felt guilty of leaving on tour when murdered and felt sorry for Imelda he wrote the song for coco not just on tour when his great grandson gets his daughter to her senses she felt happy Miguel told her her father loved her so much if he ever came for her.🎸🎼💖👨👩👧👧🍂👨👩👧👧
flaw in your logic.
you say
- miguels memories of him don't count, because he only met him after he died
- abuelita only knew OF him
- so the only living person who knew him was coco, who died in the end
but we see hector in the land of the living after all of that...
very depresing
That is because coco shared that story with Miguel (after he sang the song, remember me), so ideally shared the story to the further living family. Hence his legacy continued.
@@swastikasingh4458 yeah i know, i watched the movie. Unlike the person who made this video... lol. Makes no sense whatsoever
He also says later that Hitler would remain in the land of the dead because of textbooks and history. Dude can't follow his own logic.
@Paige Loren Coco was his daughter. She shared the story so the legacy continued. Doesn't that count ? I did not get what you were trying to say.
Actually we see Miguel explaining his little sister about the dead people and we assume mama coco told Hector's stories to her children which would keep them alive considering that no one actually knew the famous theif while he was alive, they only knew his stories.
He wasn't a thief when he was alive. And he only did what he did in the afterlife to get back to his daughter I wouldn't exactly call him a thief
@@Lunarayz.photos by thief I meant de la Cruz 😂
Bro, it was already explained that as long as their stories are passed down in life /by/ the people who knew them they'll continue to be remembered from generation to generation.
If you go by THAT logic, then Mamá Imelda will fade as well, cause the only ones to remember and SEEN her were Coco, her husband, and her grandchildren.
Cause as we see in her design that she didn't die at an old age like Coco, since she still has full black hair with a few gray lines.
Again as long as their stories are passed on, they could still remain in the land of the dead.
I always assumed that the dead look like how they do on the ofrenda. If you go by what age they die, most of Miguel’s family dies fairly early and the twins died around the same time. If they aren’t on the ofrenda then what ever age they died like Hector and Ernesto makes since.
@@EH-hm7dn But Mamá Imelda had completely black hair when she was younger in the Foto of her, Hector and Coco, but when we see her in the land of the dead she's more older with a few gray lines showing.
So it proves that at whatever age you die that's the appearance you will have as a skeleton, no matter what foto is use on the ofrenda
its very likely imelda died maybe in her 50s since she lived what looks like over 100 years ago (judging by coco age looking close to 90) and we know lots of ppl 100 years ago that might not have even made it past 50 unless very good genes
Then Will Mama Imelda fade when her grandchildren and Abuelita Pass?
@@comradekitty3759Imelda died in her early 70s and Coco was 100 when she died
I the movie Hector says that the memories of you have to be passed down by those who are living. So when mama coco started telling stories of her parents, she passed on her memories to her living family. That is why Hector didn't fade away when coco died.
You're forgetting the cultural context and also not giving Coco enough credit. She may have only been three years old when she last saw her papá, but she remembers a lot of details about him. Believe it or not, her dementia actually preserved Héctor's memory. Dementia deletes your memories from most recent to longest lasting. This results in the patient time traveling, so to speak. She gets bumped around on her personal timeline, seeing herself at the age she was when she made a given memory. Which is why she sometimes remembers her children and sometimes does not. Sometimes she is simply too far back on her timeline to realize she has kids. And since Héctor exists at the beginning of Coco's timeline, he is one of the last of her family to be forgotten.
Please don't spread rumors about a Coco sequel. Nothing has been announced. You're quoting the plot of someone's fanfic. That should've been obvious from the suggestion that Alec Baldwin voice the villain. Pixar goes for authentic accents, so unless "Marcel" is an American who had the terrible misfortune of dying while vacationing in Cancun, Alec Baldwin is not voicing anyone. Besides, if he did, the real villain would turn out to be the guy who handles Baldwin's props, and Miguel would end up shot.
@Lee Brown Anyone who proves themselves in front of a national celebrity to have as much knowledge of gun safety as your average leftist politician deserves to be mocked online.
1 Hector was on the verge of disappearing when Coco passed the memory of him to the rest of the family, that's why he was "alive" at the end of the movie: the memory of him was safely in the minds and hearts of his family.
2 The purpose of the altar was to make it possible for the dead to pass over and visit the living. That's why Hector had survived for decades without his picture on any altar.
3 I suspect that, now that his crimes have been revealed, Ernesto will find his time in the Land of the Dead far less pleasant than before. As for people like Adolf Hitler and Mother Teresa, their cultures and views of the afterlife were very different from those depicted in Coco, so I think their experiences would also be very different.
i just love it how he posted this video on the day of the dead
and yes i did not spend any time playing games
i am spending time with my family
Ah yes the movie that made me cry
Me too… and Héctor is my favorite character…!
me too
I cried soo much, especially the scenes with Mama Coco 😣🤗💖💜
*So forgetting isn't too bad at the end of it all, not at the beginning of course but souls have to be forgotten sooner or later. This ties well into the theory that the final death implies reincarnation.*
*Like Carl or asner said : thanks for an adventure, now go have a new one.*
That would make a lot of sense. For reincarnation. Chicharron may appear as a background character if this was true. Would he recognize Miguel, given children say the scariest things, and say "Hey! You used my guitar!" Chicharron's new parents would be so freaking confused
@@VikkiVibe quite possibly but very unlikely that they meet and even if so it's debatable if they recognises each other....it'd be funny though hehe
@@Orto-jj2di Miguel wouldn't recognize Chicharron but Chicharron might recognize him (toddlers, I swear to Primus)
@@VikkiVibe possibly....huh makes me wonder if john ratzenberger reincarnated many times already
@@Orto-jj2di Pacha? Huh. I dunno
At the end of the movie there is a scene of skeleton Coco hugging and walking next to Hector, so with your logic he shouldn't be there. Also soon after that we have a scene of a tour guide at the Rivera house, telling the stories of Hector's music and all the letters he had sent to his daughter as proof of being the author of Ernesto's songs. Meaning, Hector might actually be the only one that will be remembered in the future for a long time like Frida Kahlo was, as shown in the movie. But I dunno you tell me were your logic takes you (message not meant to be rude or condecending, this last frase was meant to be a joke).
There were literally Aztec skeletons there. They would have absolutely no one alive still
I understand the case you want to make, but the presence of Frieda Kohlo proves that souls don't need to have met the person for their "memories" of them to count.
I don't think you necessarily have to be family/related to them for them to continue living in the land of the dead. There is one man who near the beginning of the movie was on his dentist's ofrenda. Even if he still had other family to remember him and tell his stories, they mostly only mentioned him being on his dentist's ofrenda.
Not necessarily. In CoCo, it’s just memories that need to be passed down and ensuring the picture is up that counts for the person being remembered. Obviously since this is based off dia de los muertos, that’s kinda how our culture is: it doesn’t matter if you knew the person, just as long as you keep their memories through stories and pictures alive in your hearts, they’re never truly forgotten and will continue to “live” on.
No, they don't have to have known them while alive. Being told stories about them suffices.
It might help you to watch each movie a few times so you can catch all the details. I know it can be hard.
Hector flat out says that it happens to everyone eventually.
This is the first I’ve ever heard about Coco 2 being a thing….
Hector will never fade because people will keep telling his stories just like Ernesto, who will also be remembered but not in a good way, so he’s not gonna fade for a long time. People will stop telling everyone about him since he was bad. He’ll disappear because people will stop putting up his photos.
It's stated in the movie that it's the memories and stories passed down from those who knew them in life, meaning that since Coco finally told the full story and who he ACTUALLY was in life instead of just "that man" or "papa" to her family who then told them to the rest of the world, Hector will be remembered for a very long time to come. Sadly Ernesto will also be remembered, but not in the same light any longer.
Yeah but people will stop putting up Ernesto’s photos and he’ll eventually be forgotten.
@ju2545 Sadly, hatred tends to linger. And with how it likely came to light that Ernesto ☠️ Hector, I doubt he'll ever end up forgotten...
@@rainbowshinelove1208 yeah but eventually they’ll stop telling their kids about Ernesto. So he won’t fade for a super long time, but once there’s no one left alive that remembers him, and if they’re not telling their kids about him because he was bad, then he’ll disappear.
I disagree with some of this.
First of all, I believe you just have to know them personally for their memory to live on.
Secondly, when they experience 'The Final Death' they can't exactly "rest in piece" unless they have somewhere to rest. I think their souls are either destroyed or recarnated.
This is correct. Miguel's family discuss this at the beginning, they have the pictures and tell their stories so younger generations can know them without having met them. Coco also talks about how Hector played the song Miguel just played, so technically, though it's just a small detail, they were told of him by a living member of their family. She also pulls the photo out and introduces them to him.
Not exactly, hector said the memories had to be passed on from those that knew them in life, therefore if tons of people remember them via memories that at some point came from someone that knew them like how coco eventually passes on his letters and those letters are then passed onto the public and so on, then hector probably has a better chance at existing longer than the other members of his family with his songs being so famous.
Coco was forgetting Hector and when Miguel came back from being in the land of the dead and sang remember me to coco her memory regained. But if Miguel didn’t sing remember me, Then Hector would’ve been forgotten for good. But at the end, A lot of people where talking about his history and everyone would remember him including his family when coco found the missing part of the family photo. But before that coco was the only person who remembered him but it wasn’t just because nobody put his photo, it was basically because Miguel sang the song that Hector sang to coco as a kid.
You can pass down memories about from one generation to the other. Example: I am named after my great grandmother. I never met her due to the fact the she died one year before I was born. I don’t have physical memories but I have stories from my grandma and mamma about her. Sometimes I feel her around me
No they said that they live on through the memories of the living AND the stories told about them. At the end of the movie, since coco died, hector should have disappeared if she was the last person to actually remember him in life. However he is still around because coco finally opened up about her father so now his memory can live on in the stories told among the family and the people who now know that he originally was the song writer.
Hector won't die out completely because his story was told and corrected by Miguel and Coco. Miguel will keep Hector story alive . Miguel will continue the tradition.
If Ernesto can be remembered by fans then Hector can be remembered by someone other than family.
Well I do love this video I've got to say, it explains in the movie that even when the people who actually knew the person who died dies, the person they knew can still live on in the land of the dead if they have shared the stories of that person to their loved ones. That's why Hector was so scared because Coco didn't share any stories about him and was starting to lose her memories in general of him but Miguel managed to stir up those memories and she passed down some stories of Hector(that and he just wanted to at least see his daughter one last time before he final death-ed)
Mother Theresa wasn't all that good
I KNOW RIGHT AND THE FACT THAT THIS THEORY IS LITERALLY SOO WRONG I'M GONNA UNLIKE CAUSE IT'S 666
“You can’t remember someone you never met”
My brother, who remembers our great grandfather besides being born a few months after his death (because his weird child dreams): * fades away *
The rule is the memory has to be passed down, for example, ernesto probably had no children to speak of, seeing as how he was shocked to discover he had descendants, but he is still remembered by all those who listen to the music and remember him, also, hector knew that having miguel putting his picture on any ofrenda would work, even before they found out they were related, and the first time we see hector trying to cross the bridge, just before him is a man allowed to pass because his picture was on his dentist’s ofrenda, and while it’s possible that the two were family, the extreme amount of dental work seems the more likely reason, because the dentist remembered that man, and miguel might not have known hector in life, but he got a pretty good description of what his later part of life would have been like, if anything, he knows more about hector than coco did when she died, since she was a little girl when he left, and since hector is now being recognized as the true author of all the songs, people will remember him as the artist, so he will last for a while
I feel like you disproved your point about Hector’s legacy when you mentioned Delà Cruz’s character. Delà Cruz was surprised that he had a living relative to begin with and was straight vibing for a generation or two.
Famous people are remembered by many even if their fans never knew them personally
Coco 2 should be return of Ernesto trying to make Hector forgotten again and try to frame him of doing whatever he has done in the past
Incredible job 👏🙌👌❤😍👍
In movie The Book Of Life when your forgotten you to The Land Of The Forgotten and that is Purgatory until you fade.
Coco 2 being a thing is news to me!
I love that this was made on Dia de los Muertos 🎉💖💜🤗
yes
Wait, Coco's getting a sequel? SIGN ME THE HELL UP!!!
Incredible job
I’m really excited for 2022 now. I love this movie
Oof this didnt end well 🤣
Wonderful👏🙌👌👍😀💙
It's not only about memories it's about talking about people still talking about them
Hector kept a diary with all the lyrics of his songs and at the end of the movie this becomes a shrine showing all the lyrics inside of the diary... therefore everyone will remember him based on his stories inside the diary. your theory is flawed.
Mother Teresa, the OPPOSITE of evil? Really dude, how little do you know about that cruel witch?
I KNOW RIGHT AND THE FACT THAT THIS THEORY IS LITERALLY SOO WRONG I'M NOT GONNA UNLIKE CAUSE IT'S 666
I think you forgot the fact that as long as someone who remembers them passes on their story then they won't fade away.
Sounds like pixar is turning into what disney use to be.
Amazing 👏🙀😮😲😯
Doesn't seem like you paid attention to the movie, Hector said someone who knew you while you were alive has to pass down stories about you, so when mama coco told the family about him it was making it where more knew about him so he's not going anywhere. Plus if it needed to be someone who knew him while he was alive to remember him he would have went to the final death before mama coco even got there
I feel like thematically, the Final Death being reincarnation kinda makes more sense. In the way of you meeting the final death of wither not being someone worth remembering or outliving (for lack of a better word) your memory. So you fade into a new life to hopefully become someone worth remembering.
Mother Torisa wasn’t a good guy
I KNOW RIGHT AND THE FACT THAT THIS THEORY IS LITERALLY SOO WRONG I'M GONNA UNLIKE CAUSE IT'S 666
lol the character voiced by John Ratzenberger (the skeleton with the tooth bling) was able to go back to the Land of the Living because his dentist had his photo on the offrenda (sp?), disproving the notion that it had to be a living relative
I think the land of the dead is the middle of life and actual death itself, like it could be the place before you go to hell or heaven
I don't think they had to actually have met them for them to continue on existing in the land of the dead, they simply need to just know who they are in order to continue their existance, which is the point of setting up the pictures, so that future family members who have never met their ancestors can know who they were through being told from elder family members. In this way, their memory will live on forever as long as the family line continues to grow.
The lore in the movie literally disproves this theory.
If being forgotten is a good thing?
I rightfully say that it depends on the person and what they did in there lifetime
Take Ernesto for example.he did bad things in his life and at the end of the movie got crushed by a bell
Later on we see “forget you” on his statue of the memorial and the people know the story
This means.he had the right to be forgotten
If there’s info about Planes that I missed, I need to see a video of one
Well I have to say you make a great point with regarding the movie. But actually the tradition of the ofrenda is not about random people remembering you but your family, the people that truly love you. The stories of you that are past down generation after generation. So for instance like you mentioned Hitler he will only live as long as his loved ones remember him not as long as the world remembers. The ofrenda in made for your family not for your favorite celebrity, because in our culture or at least what I was taught family is the most important thing in our life. There are people that will make ofrendas for celebrities like Miguel did for Ernesto de la Cruz but it's to pay your respect to the person...
this reminds me of the manga "Houseki No Kuni" a.k.a. "the land of the lustrous"... the dead only want to go into nothingness, where they can finally rest for eternity. but as there's no human left on Earth to pray for them, they're unable to leave their purgatory... so they stay on the moon, for thousands of centuries, and they're deeply worn out of that situation.
The only one that had personal memory of Hector prior to Miguel was Coco. Hector died when Coco was young, there is no way her daughter could have any personal memory of him. This is an important plot point that Coco's is the only memory keeping him from passing on and explicit that he expected he would pass on at the same time she arrived.
But Coco is clearly dead at the end yet he is still in the land of the dead. So Miguel's experience in the land of the dead must have counted as a personal memory once Miguel returned. Both Coco and Hector will likely pass on only when Miguel, being the youngest or only remember-er, either dies or forgets. Maybe Hector didn't know or realize that Miguel's return to the land of the living would also buy him more time and enable him and Coco to cohabitate the land of the dead.
I see no evidence that ofrenda does anything beyond allowing them travel to the land of the living and is separate to them passing on from the land of the dead. Hector's only stated reason for asking Miguel (believing him to be a non-family member at the time) was so that he could see Coco in the land of the living before he passed on, because he expected to pass on when she died or finally lost her memory. This also means that not only does the ofrenda not need to be a family member, but the spirits can visit anywhere/anyone in the land of the living and not just wherever the ofrenda is.
This is interesting
wait!!... if Hector will be forgotten because coco is the last of family members to have a "living" memory of him, then when she dies then he should be forgotten... however we see him dancing with his wife in a small clip for the next movie of coco 2... does that not cancel this theory all together?...
And some extra villains to help him do so
Ah yes. "18 year old with depression caused by the loss of loved ones". As if the first movie haven't let me experienced enough grief and sadness. I was a wreck after watching "Coco".
I think the final death with lead the souls to their next life. In reincarnation. You see as long as someone remember you in living world, the soul would have something to hold on to. As long as they are totally forgotten, or their exact face is forgotten, they can move on to next life to make new memories
There was suppose to be a 2nd movie?
If we go with the "must be remembered who knew them when they were alive", then every soul would have to move after 120 years at maximum.
Except that's not right. It can be anyone that remembers you, like the skeleton that had a photo on his former dentist which is how they crossed over. Coco gave a memory to the family of her dad once she did know him as a little kid, they sang songs together all the time. It's like the rest of the family that is dead many weren't around for the younger kids, but they have memories of their time living. It's the same thing for Hector, as well as when it comes out that he is actually the famous one there will be people to remember him traveling. As well as photos of his time traveling, meaning more people remembering him.
You're wrong. By the time Hector actually gets to go back to the land of the living its the whole next year. And no one actually remembers him. He would've been gone already. You just need a picture on your offrenda and you can cross.
Hector was hugging coco in the end of the movie… so he should have disappeared when she died.
Wow❤❤❤❤
If you have to have actually known the person while they were alive for them to be remembered, then how do you explain Hector still being present at the end of the film after Coco’s passing.
My theory is after they are truly forgotten they are reborn into the world of the living.
Hector won't despair from land of the dead because his story is passed down
This is not true. Hector explains to Miguel that a person's memories have to be passed on by people who knew them in life. Mama Coco does this at the end of the movie, meaning that Miguel, as well as the rest of the family who was present during Coco's retelling of her experiences and memories of her father, can now pass on the memories of Hector that they learned from Coco; and obviously, if no one else were to spread his stories, best believe Miguel will! So Hector likely won't be going anywhere anytime soon.
If you follow the logic when all life on Earth dies let's say when the sun explodes all Life in the Land of the Dead will be forgotten because there's no one left to remember them
I hope there is Coco 2 because it is already 2023
you are so wrong if their photo is up and ANYONE remembers them they will not fade away the guy with that guitar did not have his picture up and no one remembered him anyway so he faded away!
At the end of the movie they are telling people of the real story between Hector and Ernesto and giving him credit for the songs he made so he will actually be remembered for a very long time. You... you didn’t see the movie, did you? Also there was never any announcement for Coco 2? Are you serious?
I want CoCo 2 now
Yeah, this video is all wrong. They showed one guy going to the land of the living because his DENTIST put up his photo, and it's the PASSING DOWN OF STORIES by people that knew them while they were alive that keeps their memories active. Mama Coco passed on her story of Hector to Miguel after he played the song for her. This is the reason Hector still existed in the land of the dead at the end of the movie. If that didn't count, HE WOULD HAVE DISAPPEARED.
Love it
Wrong you don’t have to be blood to remember him. They made their house into a sort of museum for Hector. That how Ernesto stayed around and Frida Calo
Where did you find the information for Coco 2?
There's a difference between knowing someone and knowing of them. I know of Bill Gates, for example, but don't know him.
Must've sucked for people that lived before Photography became mainstream
Here's the thing about Mother Teresa: she was hardly a saint in real life
also she's training baby souls as seen in soul
wondering if they are trying to copyright dia de los muertos again in coco 2.....
Are you basing these opinions on a comprehensive study of the diverse South American cultures and their equally diverse views of the afterlife or are you imposing a Eurocentric view on Coco?
Are you one of those people who were getting excited about the "Mayan apocalypse" while scholars who actually studied the Mayans were trying to explain that their belief that a new Era was coming had nothing to do with the end of the world?
Tell me about hector character was interesting and why ?
I think maby coco told stories about him to the family after they put his photo in the ofrenda
It's not a good thing to be forgotten
The Hispanic culture truly believes their loved ones live on after they pass away
It is very sad when someone is forgotten
Funny we are watch this movie in school but in Spanish with English sub tittles yes way better than English with Spanish sub tittles
By this logic, characters like freda carlo and Ernesto would have already faded away already.
You are also really inconsistent talking about famous people.
What happen if someone was forgotten then remembered again yah finding a old history book