Film Theory: Spider-Man’s Biggest Threat is… the MCU?! (Spider Man Across the Spider Verse)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 чер 2023
- Special thanks to air up for sponsoring this episode!
Score your own air up bottle and flavor pods w/ 20% off with code FILMTHEORY ► airup.link/3PcVPkS
Miles Morales has a REAL problem on his hands, Loyal Theorist. In Spider-Man Across the Spider-Verse we find out he unintentionally created his own villain AND that none of the events from the previous movie were meant to happen. Moreover, Peter Park was not supposed to die! Now with the world unraveling around him and Miguel and the Spider Society doing their best to restore the “canon events” we have to ask… could the multiverse actually collapse? Is this Spider-Man movie connected to the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU)? And does Spider-Man have to DIE?!
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
🔽 Don’t Miss Out!
Get Your TheoryWear! ► theorywear.com/
Dive into the Reddit! ► / gametheorists
Need Royalty Free Music for your Content? Try Epidemic Sound.
Get Your 30 Day Free Trial Now ► share.epidemicsound.com/TheFil...
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
👀 Watch MORE Theories:
Marvel Gods Have FALLEN! ►► • Film Theory: The Marve...
Disney’s WORST Fear! ►► • Film Theory: This is D...
Iron Man is the WORST Avenger! ►► • Film Theory: Why Iron ...
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
Join Our Other UA-cam Channels!
🕹️ @GameTheory
🍔 @FoodTheory
👔 @StyleTheorists
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
Credits:
Writers: Matthew Patrick and Forrest Lee
Editors: Dom Sealion, Warak, Jerika (NekoOnigiri), Alex "Sedge" Sedgwick, and Koen Verhagen
Assistant Editor: AlyssaBeCrazy
Sound Designer: Yosi Berman
Thumbnail Artist: DasGnomo
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
#Marvel #Spiderman #MilesMorales #SpidermanMilesMorales #Sony #Disney #AcrosstheSpiderverse #Spiderverse #IntotheSpiderverse #MCU #MarvelStudios #Theory #FilmTheory #Matpat - Фільми й анімація
Miguel actually pulled a Kingpin. Finding an intact family in a parallel universe to take it over was EXACTLY what Kingpin did in the first movie.
Now that you mentioned kingpin isn't miles goal the same as him in the previous film. Risking the fabric of space time continum for their family
@@Johnnyupside And we come full circle back to when it all started
Also Scarlet Witch’s goal in Multiverse of Madness
@@danteloparco6708 Yeah! I thought the same thing, people crossing over to other universes to find a one where they can have a family.
Yes! Although Kingpin wanted to _take_ that substitute family and bring them into his own universe. Whereas Miguel just took the deceased version of him's place instead. It's a more sneaky, but arguably more ethical(?) way of doing it.
You forgot to mention how Gwen’s father quit the police force, thereby removing the police captain dying thing. And her universe is still intact. You should have definitely mentioned her.
There could be a future captain close to spider Gwen that ends up dying tbf
@@Thesuperduperbooster Then the same could happen if Miles stops his dad becoming captain. While Miguel tried his hardest to stop.
❤
@@pingpong607 if anything that just further proves that Miguel’s theory has holes in it. He hasn’t learned about what happened with Gwen and her dad yet. So if the same could happen to miles, he wouldn’t know and still is in his mentality that these events are destined to happen
In the first spider-verse movies rifts from using the particle accelerator are mentioned, creating holes through which one can travel creating laying the groundwork for the events of the second movie.
Surprised not many people aren’t mentioning Peters baby. Peter explicitly says he had her cuz he wanted her to be like Miles. But he likely wouldn’t have had her if not for miles BEING Spider-Man and getting bit. Therefore making MayDay a break in the canon yet Peter’s universe is fine, another hole in Miguel’s logic
Suit in spider's anime universe that got destroyed in first movie
Yeah, but it's not a huge canon thing.... Or wait, maybe it kinda is? Since that Peter met Miles, he turned his life around. That wasn't supposed to happen in the canon, right?
It’s a hard claim because Sony could just say Spiderman is suppose to have kids and part of the cannon. The motivation doesn’t really change things.
Oh, so one time it wasn’t a spider bite one time a bunch of spiders eat peter parker, and the spiders became Peter Parker so it doesn’t always have to be a spider bite. You have to be spider related just a quick note.😂
I just realized that the punk-spider called the baby an anarchist and approved of it. So did he know? He'd also been trying to prevent Miles from seeing Miguel and saying things like "we don't follow orders". I'm curious about his world.
Honestly, i'm fascinated with how Miguel's motivations are so intrinsically linked to fear. He has this deep grief, guilt, and anxiety from destroying the world that he was happy in- and then to deal with and avoid future instances of similar trauma, his brain found what it thought was the most probably cause and he became hellbent on seeing to it that it never came to fruition again. Miguel's character is one of an obsession with maintaining control in order to cope with the horrifying events that he witnessed and likely blames himself for. It makes him simultaneously a deeply sympathetic antagonist, and a deeply infuriating one- because his drive is one that's so illogical and narrow sighted, but extremely relatable and frightening for an audience to imagine experiencing.
I completely agree
I agree. He needs therapy. And a lot of it. I don't know if that makes him a "Bad Guy" though? I just think he's traumatized and needs help. There's a difference between an antagonist and villain, and Miguel O'Hara seems to fall into the "antagonist" catagory for me. He's not Evil. He's just trying to a good thing in his view, for the wrong reasons, and trauma and what must be a MOUNTAINLOAD of PTSD are obscuring his judgement.
Yeah, it's pretty interesting!
@@PsychicSiren7he’s pretty evil He literally used Thanos Logic like everyone else did during the thanos run of the MCU and tried to justify it to miles cuz He gave up trying to find a reason
@@dereklouther9372 Miguel watched not only his alternate universe daughter, but an entire Dimension collapse around him. And the entire dimension, including the planets, the earth, every life that could have existed there doesn't exist anymore because of what he did. (This is what Miguel believes.)
So in his grief, he comes up with that theory because he wants to ease the guilt on his conscience, Because he believes that he's responsible for wiping out an entire dimension of people and sentient lifeforms. He's probably got a lot of ptsd, trauma, survivor's guilt, and who knows what else under his belt. So when Miles comes up and basically throws it in his face that " I'm going to do what you couldn't, I'm going to change Fate and save the person that means the most to me", all Miguel can hear is that this kid isn't listening to his experience and is continually insisting that he can do what Miguel couldn't, and change the fate of how these things are supposed to work. This doesn't fly. Miguel sincerely believes that what miles is going to do will wipe out his universe and all sentient life within it. And while the chase scene might have been a bit of an overreaction, Miguel did it try to talk miles down before throwing the force field at him.
I still believe that almost all of the spider people in the spider-verse movies need some sort of therapy, but this just proves my hypothesis that Miguel O'Hara needs therapy the most out of all of them. Not only because of his unique issues in the comics, but also could stem from his feelings of inferiority, because he believes that he's not a true Spider-Man due to him not having the same origin story.
But to answer your original question, I don't find Miguel O'Hara evil. He's just someone who's been slotted into the category of antagonist. If anything Miles should fear the Spot more because at their core, Miguel and the Spider Society are still spider people and stand for the values that Spider-Man stands for, while Spot has promised to take everything from Miles, and hasn't hesitated to cause damage. While Spot won't hesitate to cause damage, Miguel is trying to fix things, he's just trying to fix things from a flawed viewpoint and perspective of how things should go.
The fact that this multiverse movie had more madness than the actual multiverse of madness is madness
Multiverse of Madness was a crap movie and you can't change my mind
Godzilla had a stroke trying to read this and died
Hey Mozart, I'm a huge fan
I thought it was good
now this is an avengers level threat
I'm surprised he didn't mention Gwen Stacy's dad breaking canon by quitting his job. It's another knock on Miguel's canon theory, but it also pushed Gwen to realize the error of her and Miguel's ways and try to help/join miles
The "police captain close to spiderman" does not technically has be her dad though
EXACTLY
But also by removing a Spider-person from their universe doesn't that cause problems because now theres no spider-person in the universe. Assuming that one big canon event is that there's a spider-person.
@@movienerd9362not at all Miguel is just fucking lying
@@LetsPlay4Freebut she doesnt have anyone else in her life that is a police captain, so i feel like its heavily implied that it was supposed to be her father
I found it interesting that Penii Parker was in the sequel. Miguel's universe was set in 2099 but Penii is from 3145 so if Miguel's theories are true than as long as Penni exists, the canon is still intact. She's from a different dimension but from the future in any dimension she shows up in.
I mean just because she's from 3145 doesnt mean that someone couldnt have started the universal unravelling
@@Cera_01 true but realistically she would be the first the be affected. Change the past, change the future. If that makes sense
@@MyNameBeeKayychanging the past doesn't change the future, it just creates an alternate timeline extruding from the sacred timelinelike the tva feared of.
@@ri8u that doesn't apply in the spider verse since there can only be one variant of each spider, they consistently interfere in separate dimensions, and just about none of them are NOT parallel in time. They meet outside the confines of their time periods and dimensions. That's an MCU concept and I'm glad it doesn't bleed over.
Plus the fact that it's a character verse and not a timeline or universe kinda implies that each spider is already an alternate "branch reality" from the original human being but by a superpower inducing spider. Which is why it's represented by a web and not a stream or tree. They're supposed to meet each other and be part or an interconnected story
I feel that Miguel's Timewatches have some sort of protection against causing incursions, so that anyone wearing one isn't a threat to the stability of that universe. Case in Point: Miguel's own universe, with *HUNDREDS* of alternate versions of Spiderman just chilling there hasn't had any incursions.
so the spot has tht same protection as a add on to his powers and is noone gonna mention tht girl tht the scarlet witch was trying to kil whos powers are MULTIVERSAL TELEPORTATION
@@Lucia-Katuendji Actually, we don't know if Spot has that protection or not. After all, that might have been an incursion after his jump into Spiderman India's world. I would assume America Chavez has some sort of protection built in to her teleport as well, since she's not apparently leaving wakes of destruction behind her. It's possible the mechanism used to do the teleportation is important - some are more destabilizing than others.
@@MasterTMOwell he won’t have to worry, because since he merged with the collider from Pavitr’s dimension, he became almost like a God.
And that’s going to destroy every canon in the multiverse unless he is stopped, if he isn’t, this could be the end of all Spider Man everywhere all together.
@@MasterTMO Feels great knowing that I’m not the only one who subscribes to that theory that Incursions can be prevented in the MCU’s portions of the Multiverse if you have the right protections. Now that I think about it, the theory that I had about Doctor Strange and Scarlet Witch being unable to cause Incursions as a result of their inter dimensional (or, perhaps more accurately, interplanar) travel spells kinda doesn’t really work because Sinister Strange and 838 Strange exist.
This theory has flaws
Fun fact, the guy who made Spiderman Into the Spider-verse scenes out of Legos was so good, the director contacted him to create a scene for Lego Spiderman's universe. Dude isn't finished Highschool. I give mad respect to him.
I think I actually saw his recreation of Leap Of Faith, although I didn't know he made more scenes.
@@supergamerconnor4355 I think at the time of his last episode or before that, he was making the lego scene for Across the Spider-verse.
@@artechstorm that guy was only a teenager 😀
@@scratchgaming111 yeah. Respect to him
The guy is 14, I feel like trash
It's funny how people have missed that every other spiderman is bit by a spider, but Miguel wasn't. He was gene sliced with one to cure a drug addiction. He is the most different spiderman (fangs, claws, altered vision, no web crawling, organic webs, and no spider sense) yet attacks Miles for not being like the other spidermen.
Spider ham wasn’t either
spider-racism
lol yeah when i watched the movie im confuse about that, mainly because of the spider sense
@@thegrandatm1844at least he got bitten by something
Was it explained in the film, or is this from the comics?
I actually just realized that the reason Miguel O Hara was “breaking” the canon is because him dying in an alternate universe was that universes uncle Ben moment. If you look at the scene where he dies it is animated in a comic book form like the canon events and it is extremely similar to uncle bens death.
iirc gabriela was supposed to become spiderwoman after his death too
That prowler twist in the end was crazy , I loved it , it was different and even though you started to see it coming it was still “shocking”
You're not wrong about the audio mixing
Nice svryva
👍
👍👍
👍👍
Nice
The “anyone can be Spider-Man” is exactly why Stan Lee originally gave Spider-Man a full-cover mask and suit. That’s one of the primary lessons of Spider-Man, so it’s likely to be correct.
it wasnt the original idea but he was glad it happened. stop lying
Well, no, that's not originally why Stan or Steve Ditko have included the mask. Stan fully admits it was not intentional, but it's a great happy accident in retrospect.
I wonder if one of the background easter egg characters for the next one will be Man-Spider. From a universe of arachnids where a researcher is bitten by a tiny radioactive human.
@@aston4763 More people need to learn from Stan once your product and character is out there in the public it can change and adapt...It's not something to fear or hate but to love that people loved your character and story so much they wanted to improve, add, critique and copy it. It's literally the very example of something becoming beloved and becoming more than the sum of it's parts into a legend.
A shame that the movie is w@ke.
Still gotta feel for Miguel, if he's right in his theory or not we'll just have to wait but seeing him go from a happy go lucky guy to a hardened man, burdened with even more responsibility than most Spider people trying to keep it together is just sad. He's obviously traumatized by his actions and being the cause of an entire universe collapse with an unfathomable amount of death on his hands isn't something anyone should be able to comprehend.
I feel like another MASSIVE plot hole in the movie is that Miguel himself is a walking break of the cannon. He was never bitten by a spider, in his story he was genetically altered into a Spiderman. And because he has already become a Spiderman he with therefore never be bitten. He is the literal product of breaking the very first rule of the cannon and he and his universe is perfectly fine.
thats not a plot hole, thats the whole point of the movie. miguel is wrong
Something that surprisingly few people seem to notice is that the rubble in Mumbattan was already covered in this spreading dark matter even before the canon event happened. The dark hole is 100% the Spot's fault and the canon event just happened to coincide
I wouldn't say no one noticed, Miles himself noticed in the movie. When Miguel tries to pin the blame for the incident on Miles breaking a canon event, Miles rightly points out that it was Spot's fault.
@@ramonandrajo6348 Woke? Lmao you people are really triggered by anything. What exactly makes the movie woke?
@@saucevc8353 Demasculinized male characters, female empowerment and/or mistreatment of male characters based on the third wave feminist agenda, false "diversity", and so on.
@@ramonandrajo6348 we are woke ourselves, shut up.
but it didnt glitch before the canon event was broken
Matpat's the kind of guy who can nail any innocent superhero with 37 Federal charges
@@LiIDruk Enough of your lies, Shocky x Sparky. Now, get off of UA-cam and take your spam bots with you.
True
@@h0m3st4ryeah
A master of his craft
How to sum up MatPat in one sentence.
one of my theories is that earth 42 has something to do with the spider getting into a different dimension or something. Just think about how Aaron wasn't surprised that Miles took his braids out and he casually walked him to the rooftop. Also he immediatly attacked him, tied him up and put gloves on him, knowing he wasn't the Miles from 42, which seems strange because how did he know that he was a different Miles and why wasn't he and Miles 42 not surprised that the original Miles was in that dimension? I'm pretty sure there's something off about earth 42
If this theory is to be believed, the canon events start with Spider-man being bitten. If Spider-man never existed in E-42 then maybe they don't get Spider-man related canon events.
Also, as for how E-42 Uncle Aaron was able to tell that it wasn't HIS Miles, a theory I've heard is that because Jefferson dies in E-42, Miles is raised by Rio alone. This is why he has more of a Hispanic accent. You can hear the difference in the way the both pronounce "Morales".
If you pay attention Miguel’s universe is destroyed in the same polygonal shapes he uses for his suit. Mumbatton is being destroyed by the spot that the Spot generated with the super collider. Dr Strange destroyed his with the mirror universe. So it seems that the incursions seem to be more a factor on what system is used to universe hop. And at least Miguel is cleaning up the villain incursions that are happening in other universes to try and prevent incursions there. I just think his obsession with cannon events is misplaced. Remember it’s not Miles’ fault he got bit, it wasn’t his collider experiment, and he wasn’t actively trying to be Spider-Man.
people fail to mention how Miguel’s story of replacing his dead self to be with a happy family is literally the parallel of Wanda’s plotline in Multiverse of Madness
And literally did it better
@@lodestar3984 Actually speaking the truth rn
@lodestar3984 Because they didn't try to waste an entire show just to set him up as an antagonist. Also didn't try to make him sympathetic. Also had him acknowledge how he was wrong for his actions.
@@sullyschwartz2365 Exactly. He was a much less fractured character than Wanda, since he was new. If not for Wandavision, I think Wanda would have been much more interesting.
I also think its really similar to Kingpins character.
The dark matter in mumbatten is definitely spot considering it 1) looks and acts different than when Miguel’s world fell apart 2) happened immediately, whereas Miguel’s probably took some time
Yeah, but all those "emergency" spidermen that came to control this dark matter and Miguel himself talked like they seen it way before Spot became a threat. Plus, they had equipment to control this matter, and they knew how to use it.
@@szymon2109 because Spot's dark matter is still dark matter. With the appropriate technology, it can still be reversed, not to mention dark matter being what it is, means it is very much obvious what it is. Unlike how Miguel's world fell apart, it glitched like the time the Collider first fired back in the first Spider-Verse movie.
Anyway.. Spot himself is out there somewhere in the multiverse now, plotting to do something with all that dark matter he's amassed, something to do with Miles specifically, and he's pretty much a multiversal threat now.
@@szymon2109Yeah but the canon events are pretty arbitrary if you really think about it and in the comics there are actually characters who are meant to hold the spiderverse together so it’s clearly not Miguel’s job. It’s heavily implied Miguel is a synthetic Spider-Man. So even the first canon event, the one that makes Spider-Man “Spider-Man” doesn’t even happen to all of them. For example, Spider-Man India was given his powers by a shaman. And Spider-Punk wasn’t close with the police, he was the one who k*lled the police force in his universe because it was an authoritarian police state. Miguel is literally just acting based on his own traumatic experience.
Edit: Also that tech to control the dark matter could have come from two places. Both of which prove it may not have even existed and they created it on the fly.
1) Every universe with an Alchemax was experimenting with dark matter as supported by the Spot using interdemensional travel to go to Alchemax and increase his power (which is multiversal travel using dark matter) so they took it from Alchemax.
Or
2) They synthesized it using tech they already had which is supported by Spider-Punk creating his own multiversal travel watch from parts he took in Nueva York’s Spider-Man HQ.
this is exactly what I was thinking, especially since the simulation of the "canon event" Miguel experienced has a different look to how it appears when we presumably see it happen with Pavitr's universe
THATS WHAT I WAS GONNA SAYYYYY. like what if since miles did it it was different and all that matter was was spot opening another portal on accident to let more villains through.
Unfortunately Matpat I must correct you. Miles dad isn't about to be made captain of the NYPD.
He's going to be captain of the PDNY
wha- oh is it like non-violation measures or smth like that?
@@sanjanaakotyada4753 No, it's just a joke showcasing how Miles world is a step left. Instead of the police being the NYPD (New York Police Department) it's instead the PDNY (Police Department of New York).
In the movie, we see Miguel getting frustrated with Miles for “disturbing the cannon.” We’ve already had multiple Spider-Man trilogies with similar story lines. With that in mind, maybe Miles’s purpose as far as the audience is concerned is to open up possibilities for new stories to be created in the future.
If Miles isn’t “supposed” to be spider man, then maybe canon events won’t be the same for him and won’t have the same repercussions. if that is the case, the writers would be able to highlight miles’s ability to literally write his own story as he does not have to live by the rules of the other spiders’ lives, which could happen in beyond the spider verse
basically hes a non-temporal being, detached from the laws of time and space and able to do anything without consequence to the fabric of the multiverse.
coincidentally, all of these incursion events could literally have been spots doing this whole time.
He isn't the correct miles that was bitten. It was supposed to be Earth - 42 Miles.
That still should mean Earth 42 and his still should been wiped if it's truly canon events surrounding specific spider people, so I still think the incursions make more sense. And there's a LOT of universes: not so good guy Spider-people, vastly different lore, etc. The whole point of timelines and multiverse is the infinite possibilities, paths, etc. So it would make sense that two universes that weren't supposed to meet getting crossed into causing the problem a good origin. My question is why didn't the other multiverse events cause glitching effects? Does magic protect them where tech doesn't unassisted? Albeit not forever or at least repeated travel still building up to a problem if the person themselves is fine (travel destabilizes, and foreign universe presence makes it worse over time, aka it's not just you glitching it's also the world around you even on micro levels that could spread especially if you're subatomic particles get scattered everywhere).
@@davidsmith3687 Maybe Miles didn't glitch out because the Spider that bit him is from that Earth originally
@@jrbudoybudoy if it was canon events, not having a Spider-Man should've ended world 42 and many things should've ended Miles's world: the original dying, having two Spider-people even if temporary, etc. Just shows that it's not canon events, because you could drag in the game lore with Miles and Peter too whom didn't have a multiverse spider but new experimental ones. Then there's the fact Miles DID glitch in Earth 42 where the spider came from, and the spider glitched in the first movie on his earth.
I think it’s strange that Miguel blames miles because KINGPIN was the one starting the whole mess in the first place.
If I remember correctly, wasn't it also The Spot who technically started this mess in the first place? He brought the 42 spider into Mile's world which it turn created the chain of dominoes that lead up to all of this. Spiderman didn't really create the Spot, Spot created himself by making a new Spiderman.
Miguel is probably jealous of Miles because he is ok "being an anomaly" while Miguel couldn't
all these "canon events" are bull,
Miguel didn't disrupt that when he pulled a Rick and the spider 42 was going to be the second spider event for Peter from Miles universe
@LucarioNinja92
Certainly you are right but, Miguel O'Hara started telling Miles that he wasn't supposed to be bitten and become Spider-Man but Dr. Jonathon (The Spot) was the one bringing Earth-42 Spider to Earth-1610 causing Miles Morales being bitten and becoming the anomaly of Spider-Man, and it wasn't Miles' fault cause then he wouldn't be able to get his knowledge all about the canon-events.
Technically from another universe, Earth-42 Miles Morales became the prowler but falls for Spider-Man, and he's not suppose to be bitten either from that universe if Dr. Jonathon (The Spot) brought the spider and chose to bit Miles in Earth-1610.
From the conclusion: Miles Morales from Earth-1610 deserved to be Spider-Man, Miguel O'Hara started arguing Miles Morales on what Spot did to him, and what Wilson Fisk did with the collider causing some spider-people being brought from another dimensions. Miguel O'Hara started acting hostile against Gwen Stacy for whatever Jessica/Lyla did with the portal, and she did nothing at all if Miles followed her through the portal where Jessica/Lyla opened. Before Peter Parker died in Earth-1610, he started insisting Miles on what he needs to do with the goober, and in the future, Miles Morales saved the day against the collider and Kingpin, and sending every spider-people back to their homes. (In Spider-Man: ITSV, Miles told Peter that he doesn't want become one, but Peter replied to Miles that there wouldn't be any choices but he'll go through his head.)
Edited: Spot was the one making Earth-1610 Miles Morales an anomaly. And Miguel O'Hara should've come there and help Miles Morales to get rid of his nemesis.
@@LucarioNinja92if you are saying it like that why couldn't spots mother be the one who started it all
Well there's a reason he didn't tell miles in the first place, he only told him after he completely lost his cool
One major issue I’m glad MatPat pointed out, Miguel caused an incursion in the 2nd universe likely because Spider-Man already existed. He also implies the cannon event has to be a police captains death. Gwen’s universe, let alone spider rex disprove that. Miles can exist in both bc like venom, the earth 42 spider is only part of him.
In mumbaihattan the universe collapse doesn’t look anything like that Miguel caused either. It looks like the spot is just attacking the city center
0:25 dam he was right that does slap
I feel like this is why Hobie was the best character in the movie. He warned Miles about Miguel and the spider society, bailed on them the moment they got all anti freedom, and builds the watch which will (probably) let Gwen find Miles and eventually stop Spot
I don’t think Hobie was supposed to be totally correct in his reaction to the situation. His game is anarchy. His decision to go against Miguel wasn’t made out of care for human life, but for his own personal entertainment. Don’t get me wrong, that actually makes him a very interesting character, but I don’t think he’s as good of a person as you may think.
@@d00mshr00med you're completely wrong
I just like that Hobie was set up to be this "rival" for Miles in a "love triangle" only for the film to toss it away to show that he DOES care for Miles.
And given his background as an anarchist living in an authoritarian version of the UK, it is understandable why he wouldn't give in to the Spider-Society's mindset.
@@devofficialchannel If you think about it, felt like the movie was trying to make Hobie a trope / love triangle as some Spider-Man comics / shows do have that going on with characters involving Gwyn or his other love interests, but our rebel is such a strong believer in going against the system he broke away from that and helped Miles out instead. Dude is awesome.
@@koramil0693 he himself says he is not a hero cause thats not a term he wants to go by.
another point against "canon events" is that not every spiderman is bit by a spider. In across the spiderverse itself, Pavitr Prabhakar is never bit by a spider. A shaman connects him to a spider god that gives him the powers directly, and in the comics Mayday Parker inherits her powers, but never gets bit either.
More so, the japanese version of spiderman that Mat mentions, Takuya Yamashiro, is given his powers in the form of a spider bracelet an spider extract following his father's death. and he, too, never gets bitten.
Miguel, Jess, and Ben Reilly (all in this movie) were also never bitten. I don't remember if Peni was bitten or not. Spider-Ham was a spider who was bitten by a radioactive pig.
@@JackHaIrowjust stop living.
im also 90% sure that miguel got his powers from alchemax and not a spider, so unless there was another spider before him, his universe should be gone.
@@TiniTillerCorrect. He’s literally part spider, hence the claws, fangs, enhanced eye senses and no spider sense
@@TiniTiller There usually is a 1960-2020 or whatever current year spider man that's a part of history in spiderman 2099 universes from what I've heard
I think this was also backed up by Hobie leaving Miles a note at the end saying he was going to help him (presumably in the next movie). Sure, this could be explained by his general antiestablisment ideals, but he's been working with the spider society up until now. This tells me he joined to investigate their values and if what they were doing was actually benefitting people, and he has information to help miles that hes learned through working there
I actually love this theory because I think this theory would make miles even more of a hero, technically saving his entire universe by taking you the mantle of Spiderman after the spider from another dimension indirectly got peter Parker killed and therefore stopping it from having a truly huge effect on his universes canon
I think the main message of the Spiderverse sequels are directed to future writers of the Spiderman IP not just the audience. "You don't need to follow a set of rules of what should or shouldn't happen. Write your own story." Because at the end of the day, "canon events" are whatever the writer deems to be canon (or what the executives want). There are no hard press rules, just write what you want and keep your love of doing it.
Amen to that. In a nigh infinite multiverse, there are nigh infinite possibilities.
@@ramonandrajo6348ah yes i "wake" movie, if you wanna say woke you should not use the instagram symbol.
@@ramonandrajo6348It IS woke, Hobie’s few lines are woke af, if you’re a bootlicking cuck it might offend you
To bad Miles will lose his mother in this look at her hairstyle
@@jbutarbutar1817 UA-cam, dude, UA-cam. ;)
The biggest problem I see with this theory is if having Spider-Men from different universes puts you at a higher risk of having an incursion, how in the world is Miguel's world not in complete and utter chaos considering they have thousands of different Spider-Men there?
TRUE
Not only that. But also Mattpat clearly misremembers what was causing incursions in Multiverse of Madness. What caused incursions wasn’t a person coming into another universe. Instead, it’s someone constantly and excessively dreamwalking into into their counterpart’s head in another universe. The reason being is that the film reveals that people’s dreams are actually events that a counterpart of theirs are experiencing and they are viewing in their subconscious REM sleep. In 838 Strange and 616 Wanda constantly dreamwalking, the boundaries of the universes are significantly eroded by them consciously inhabiting the body of their counterpart in another universe for a long period of time. That’s why 838 Dr. Strange mentions to the Illuminati that he caused an incursion when he’s “dreamwalking.” The fact that dreamwalking is a dangerous thing to do is further emphasized by 616 Dr. Strange inhabiting the corpse of Defender Strange and coming to Wundagore where Wanda calls him a hypocrite. It’s dreamwalking that is causing incursions rather than people stepping into universes.
thats what i was thinking like if incursions are the case then why hasnt their spiderman-filled world not blown up yet
@@rohithdhar7755 Yeah thats what i really dont like about this theory, but I have another thought that im really surprised that nobody has mentioned. In the show What If, we see Dr. Strange try his best to break an absolute point in time, the success of which causes the universe he lived in to vanish. Vanishing makes more sense than an incursion because it's confirmed that's what happened to the world that Miguel went to. The point that I really want to make is the fact that, in both stories, a super hero tries to do something to change the thing that drove them into being a super hero. Miguel would have stopped being spider man and Dr Strange would have never become the Sorcerer Supreme. This doesn't explain the hole created in the universe that Indian spider-man was in, but I think it's really worth noting. Also the containment fields used to hold prisoners, rifts, etc, look very very similar to the bubble that the What If Dr. Strange ends the episode in.
so glad someone pointed that out
MatPat, this is a very good theory and it explains a lot but you forgot about how the first movie in this franchise litteraly has at least 6 spiderman inside Miles realm at the same time for a pretty long time too. If that is so, why would mile's realm still be here?
The only real impact they left was fighting the villains. They didn't cause much damage and their glitches weren't forcefully stopped. Miles is really the only one that did any important stuff there and the collider may have had an impact on the chance of an incursion
@@ThatComputerGuyRyan Good point, but your forgetting in the other movies, the collective were afraid of Dr strange's very existence, giving us the impressions that incursions are pretty delicate. Also, they did fight the big boss guy, which should count as an action
Maybe the more they play with multiverses the less stable they are?
My personal theory is that their arrival was a Canon event, and Miguel isn't looking at the whole picture, because there are Canon events caused by anomolies
@@danielloewen2857 That is also a good theory. However, that just defeats the whole definition of "canon events". It is very rare for a universe to be invaded by three spidermans who are not local, which means that canon events aren't even canon events anymore
My theory is that miles can save his dad without causing a canon event because if he was an anomaly he was never supposed to exist and neither was his story in the Spiderverse just like his teacher said his story is blank, he can do whatever he wants in it. His own thing
Its honestly mind blowing how they managed to make almost all the events that happen the climax of the movie all at once and still not loose the viewers intrests for a minute and even after the end.
This! I was focused the entire time!
i literally told my dad we had to stay in case there was an end credits scene, i stared at the credits for like 3 minutes without anything happening, but i was still so invested
They have mf-ing climaxes within the first half hour-Gwen leading up to the title drop? That was an ENTIRE story arc BEFORE a fucking Title drop. Do you know how immaculate you have to be with pacing and editing? The soundtrack is immaculate as well, incredibly immersive and fitting every moment; Part of why that Gwen arc's climax is pulled off so well is thanks to the amazing music as Vulture shoots up out of the museum
It also perfectly explains the first movie as well. Kingpin was TRYING to cause an incursion, just to get his family back, merging the two dimensions until (hopefully) his universe, and his family remain
I'm 99% certain that Miguel's reasoning is SUPPOSED to feel kind of off... On the one hand, he might be right. On the other, he's almost definitely not. Whether its because he's lying or because he doesn't know the full truth, we don't really know yet. But I'm definitely siding with Miles on this one.
Here’s my “add-on” to your theory:
The way that things travel to other universes has something to do with the incursions. In Multiverse of Madness, Strange is taken to other universes by America. Wanda takes control of herself in the universe she wants to go to. Those can cause incursions. In Across the Spider-Verse, the ones in the Spider Society have “day passes” or they have “watches” (or whatever they actually are) to travel to other universes. Those don’t cause incursions. Miguel probably used a different method to travel to the universe where he is dead, causing an incursion. The “day passes” and “watches” stop incursions from happening.
For an incursion to happen in Mumbattan, Miles would have needed to do something that “left a large footprint behind” on the universe, which isn’t exactly defined. If Miles saving a life leaves a footprint behind, that hole in Mumbattan is the start of an incursion. If it isn’t leaving a footprint behind, then it’s the Spot’s “holes”.
The “watches” (or whatever you want to call them) have a list of things that are pre-labeled as “canon events”. That’s why they say “Canon Event Disrupted”.
I love this, this makes the spot an even greater villian because of how easily he travels across different verses. Also the movie literally leaves off with miles in another universe.
I think the spot not being subject to glitching might be a huge power
@@hastalasopasequemo3645at first I thought he wasn’t gonna be a big problem & many more villains are gonna come but I was wrong I guess he’s the main villain 😅
@@wins._7
Bro is gonna grow so powerful he would be eating Marvels Gods for breakfast. Not even the infinity gauntlet can change Spots reality because now he would be every and nowhere at the same time, a walking Schrodinger.
(This is sarcastic btw, I know how powerful Galactus is)
bro has the death touch
Interesting note, the Canon Events of this movie matches with how the Ancient One explains Fixed Points in time working in the What If episode for Strange Supreme
@@SkyDerechothe comment was talking about what if, not endgame. In what if the universe does end when dr strange breaks a fixed point which is basically the same as a cannon event. The problem though is a fixed point is universe specific as not every dr strange had to have his wife die. This means that Miguel’s logic is still flawed as fixed points are universe specific so he can’t apply his canon theory to every universe.
@@SkyDerecho I totally agree, infact I remember hearing that MOM was originally about the villain nightmare instead of wanda but I suppose they really wanted to do the multiverse stuff which is pretty disappointing because I think nightmare would've been a really interesting antagonist. Not to mention that I don't even think marvel knows what a multiverse is since they use it almost interchangeably with alternate timeline as if they are separate universes.
@@SkyDerecho It has nothing to do with Dr. Strange being the best of the Avengers. It's because he saw only one possible outcome of beating Thanos. So giving him the Time Stone was part of that.
@@BigPunDude But canon events ARE universe specific, just like fixed points. That's why it doesn't literally have to be "Uncle Ben" dying, it just has to be an "Uncle Ben figure." Each canon event is more about the IMPACT they have on the character and not the exact event itself. So in the case of Strange, both the death of Christine (What If version) and the injury to his hands (MCU version) lead to the same result: Strange turns to magic and becomes the sorcerer supreme.
I was also thinking this too when I was in my bed thinking about it.. I kinda wanna write a quick UA-cam video or something else.. I still believe what’s staid in this video could be right.. this could also be something to think about.
I think that miles' universe did a self correction type thing like matpat said. Due to there being a second Spider-Man, the universe shifted what it's canon is and has to be. Meanwhile Pavitir's universe was just fine until a canon event dmwas disrupted. Not giving the universe time to correct itself.
One thing I found rather strange is that Miguel O'hara has 0 spiderman powers which is why he is so different in comparison to some all of the other spiderman, he has to use claws to climb walls, although the teeth and serum he injects himself with was never explained, but if Miguel never got bit by a spider it makes the most sense is that Miguel's universe where he died didn't collapse because it was a cannon event, it could have been a side effect from the 1st's movies when the spot was created maybe the spots initial creation could have caused more damage that isn't explained. Just like everyone else I believe these canon events are not vital for a dimension to function but where mine differs I believe the spot has one of the biggest roles within this trilogy and may impact it in ways we will not expect, but... Miguel might have some separate agenda which the spider society may be doing without them realizing. Also anyone notice how both the two broken canons displayed had a different reaction, while Miguel's vaporized the indian spiderman's (forgot the name) dimension could be ANOTHER side affect from the collider reaction which could create a whole new set of problems as most dimensions have the Alchemax lab have a collider within themselves. Anyway rant over.
Miles's dynamic with O'Hara is fascinating, considering their tense relationship is formed exclusively by outside factors. Yet, both are driven by something personal (Miles with his father, Miguel with his lost daughter). Considering where both end up with the Spot, I can't wait to see that payoff in Beyond The Spider-Verse.
@@LiIDruk You put it 2 times to really show that you agree ? 😅
@@IdentifiantE.Sso what
@@IdentifiantE.S its a bot
I think they’re gonna be forced into being allies, and then hopefully they’ll have character development because of each other’s point of view and influence
Mayday is also a big factor as to why Miguel's theory doesn't seem entirely correct. In the movie, Peter B tells Miles that the WHOLE reason that he had Mayday was because of Miles. But Peter was never supposed to meet Miles, according to Miguel's timeline he was supposed to be a miserable sad-sack grieving in his apartment. It's because of Miles, who is an "anomaly" to Miguel, that Mayday exists. So, theoretically, Mayday even being BORN should've absolutely obliterated Peter's universe, but it didn't.
Miguel has to believe his theory is correct, he found closure with the fact that he caused the death of his family. If Miles proves his conclusion wrong, his entire operation loses its meaning.
This. This exactly.
@@Mediados Exactly. Which is something they'll have to help Miguel get past.
One could argue that Mayday would have probably been born anyway; it's possible Peter B might have gotten his life back together later had he not met Miles but that's probably not the exact case.
@@shadowwriter4538 Yeah, but by the same token, Original 1610 Spider-Man could've wound up dead with or without Miles there in the first movie. One can't say for sure he screwed up fate in one place, but was totally unnecessary in the other. The causal chain cuts both ways, you know?
Just remember, Dr Olivia Octavios sent the spider out before the collider was even started. So, it’s Olivia’s fault at the very least
So she's responsible for the hole thing.
Remember spider pig? He bit a radioactive spider. It didn't bit him
I think one potential flaw with the theory involving incursions is that the entire spider society exists on one earth, Miguel's earth. If incursions were the real threat, then his earth would've surely collapsed long ago with all the spider ppl constantly existing on his plane. Perhaps it has something to do with the devices on their arms which prevents this, I'm not sure.
That's what I thought. in the first movie they call traveling. through the Spiderverse an "aunotomous multiverse jump." I think that means that they act seperate from their universe, with the device.
agree with ya, but i thought bout it for a bit...
most of the those spider ppl are inhabiting miguel's universe for not more than a day i guess, we havent any spider dorms or any of the other spider ppl being there for too long, propably each spider is going by, taking a task, grabbing a few more spidies and head out to the mission and report back to the HQ.
maybe the incursions require for people from other universes to stay there for the long run, like migeul had with his family (it could have been years man who knows)
Yeah I think it's the devices. Every time we see an incursion there was someone without a device. Miles didn't have one when he saved the Indian police captain. I think that that might be the trick, and Miguel is going to be so mad when he discovers that he had the tech to avoid the problem the whole time.
@@mr.cookiecutter the problem is that when Miguel went to the universe where he had a family he had the device since he wasn't glitching out while he was there. Meaning that the devices can't prevent it.
@simeonbachev5323 yeah thats what I was thinking, perhaps the devices just delay it, I really don't know
The use of Water colors in Gwen’s world blew my mind. On my third time through I noticed in the beginning Gwen has a light blue and her dad has pink behind him. But after Gwen’s identity is revealed in that world they both occupy Orange. Incredible movie with things you only notice on the billionth watch.
Matpattis my inspiration. My parents said if I get 10k followers They'd buy me a mic for recording..begging u guys, literally begging.
@@LiIDrukworthless human garbage
The only issue Iam facing to understand about this theory is that as you mentions over at 14:30 "no extra dimensional visitors have spent any significant time there", wouldn't miguel's universe collapse instantly due to soo many different realities spidermans are at one location. Even tho in the movie they reference them as "part time" spiderman, they still collectively spending over hundreds of hours in miguel's universe.
Love this video! I also questioned some of the same things about cannon events such as why the planet the spider 42 came from still was intact after not creating Spider-Man and how miles home world never reacted to miles being bitten and Peter dying. Thinking it may have something to do with his “original Anamoly” status and a potential to “rewrite the cannon”
I cannot tell you how much pain I felt when the “to be continued” came up on the screen at the cinema. I was so sad. I GOTTA WAIT A WHOLE NOTHER YEAR FOR THE NEXT PART!!
Now you have to wait like 3 to 5 years
@@shruqabdullah5036 Have you not heard it is delayed and we have no idea when it comes out it is at minimum that not coming out until early 2025 because we know Sony movies coming out in 2024 so it is definitely not coming out in 2024. I know it sucks
@@shruqabdullah5036 yeah it was confirmed in a tweet that Sony made about the time line of when the movies come out.
It's only supposed to be a year it's fine 😊 my family was bummed but personally I'm very satisfied. Instead of being sad that I can't see the next part now, I'm so happy with the two hours we got this year and I'm super excited for the next movie!
Hopefully we will be able to see it soonish!
@ryanRosenblatt I didn't realise it was delayed that long. Imma go cry now
4:45 that back ground music just took me back to the early game theory day.
Matpat said at about 10:40 that Earth 42 has no Spider-Man so it should have collapsed. However, it does have a Spider-Man in Miles, he is just being Spider-Man for the wrong dimension. I mean that he is technically Spider-Man for two different dimensions. Also I think Mumbattan started collapsing immediately because there are set dates for the cannon events in every world.
my biggest issue with this is the spider society itself. hundreds, possibly thousands of spider people are occupying miguel’s world and not a single incursion has happened with them. if one single miguel simply living life in a different world is enough to destroy that world, shouldn’t the spider society coming together completely destroy the entire multiverse?
That's a doubt I also had with this theory but tbh I'm sure the writers would've thought about this if it was actually the case. So I don't think this theory is true, but it makes a mot of sense (beside the spider society in 1 dimension)
My guess is they built it in an incurred universe kinda like evil doctor strange in MoM they can’t cause an incursion because the universe is alread incurred
@@timmcguire653 that would be a good explanation if there weren’t civilians living in nueva york (miguel’s new york). since incursion wipe out the people native to their earth, these people can’t be civilians of an earth that experienced an incursion since they would all be dead
@@timmcguire653 Maybe it's the one that Miguel lost his family in
@@timmcguire653 Maybe it's the one that Miguel lost his family in
I’m surprised you didn’t bring up the fact that Gwen’s father quits the police force, thus never having him make the rank of captain, completely avoiding a “canon event” that should happen to Gwen. I can’t wait for the next movie to tackle this
I mean it’s not that deep it literally happens in any time travel or multiverse movie or a lot of movies in general of “your fate is in your own hands”. Heck even god of war ragnarok states the obvious. Anything could happen canon events don’t mean anything
Tbf that could literally just be explained away as him not being the captain that eventually dies
@@117MasterSpartanin Marvel What-If, doctor strange tries to change a canon event but it just keeps happening over and over.
@@Zombatt that doesn’t affect anything of the MCU or spiderverse because it’s a what if
ua-cam.com/video/SAmmlQZJf98/v-deo.html Finally it’s here🤠
Love the theory, I fully forgot about incursion's until now, but this made me wonder how does Dr. Strange's story in "What If?" play into this? Christine Palmer's death being a fixed point in time seems awfully similar to a cannon event, and undoing this did lead to what seemed like an incursion. There were admittedly different elements like time travel and magic, but I feel like this moment, which is also in the MCU may at least loosely support Miguel's theory.
Each canon event probably has a certain importance, and each world has a level of canon event importance. With each one that happens that level goes up and if it isn’t fullfilled, then and only then do the spot holes appear and the universe collapses
This made me think about how Miguel has all of the spider-men in the lobby, likely leaving massive footprints, but not causing an incursion. It's possible that the glitching that happens when the characters are in an alternate universe without the watches on could have something to do with causing incursions. Maybe the watches that keep them from glitching and allow them to travel the multiverse, are also the key to preventing incursions from happening. Since Miles and Spot didn't have the watches and left massive footprints (Spot destroying the Alchemax building and Miles saving so many people) an incursion could have happened due to their combined actions. This would explain the spider society not causing an incursion since all of the spider-people have the watches on, keeping them from glitching and preventing incursions from happening. This could also mean that Miguel's theory on cannon events is still partially true since these cannon events, if disrupted by someone from another universe who is not wearing a watch (for example miles), could leave massive footprints that result in incursions.
That makes a lot of sense
Good job
Wasn’t Miguel supposed to die? He’s the one who changed his universe
The original debunks incursions
Then miguels and pavitr's dimensions shouldnt have collapsed
exactly my point!
Another detail with Mubattan's hole: the Alchemax building chunk still had writhing Spots on it. Maybe they all merged and grew once held in place, faking out the Incursion.
While I think the same thing for the most part I can’t help but go back to Miguel saying that they can’t always fix it, feeling like an implication that it has happened before, more than once outside of just his story (but again it could be a lie?)
@@gobocarterI doubt he would lie about that, especially considering there were other spiders present who likely could know otherwise and become suspicious of him, so I think he told the truth there
Just one problem: The spider who bit Miles was not from his universe and it committed incursion that killed a spiderman and created another and changed the world massively. Like, creating multiverssal villain for example.
When Miguel is explaining that a chief officer must die so the canon stays safe he didn’t know that in Gwens earth her dad quit from being a captain therefore as long as you don’t break the canon the canon doesn’t need to be in place meaning the canon doesn’t have to happen
I have a theory, but the only problem is that it wouldn't make sense for him to assemble an entire spider society for it, unless he already had one prior. Maybe the way he acts towards Miles is more selfish. I think that Miguel is afraid that Miles is right, and that you can break the “canon” without the world collapsing, and that his daughters death in the second universe was in vain. Need I mind you he left his original one, so who knows what happened to Miguels family in the first one, to go to another universe only to lose his family again which was his fault according to what he told Miles.
That’s a really good one, I would have never thought of that
🤔🤔
the way he described the universe it sounds like he didnt have a family in his original universe or already lost them
the universe where the spider socity is in, it's his universe
he didnt have a family in the original one, they died.
Miguel does imply that they usually are able to save universes from their collapses. We also know that those holes weren’t opening up until mikes became Spider-Man, and the spot got his powers at the same time. So I’m pretty sure all those holes belong to the spot.
Yeah i buy that. We havnt been given a scale for just how powerful spot is now. It could be that spot is the one destroying spiderverses by visiting them, or he's doing it intentionally. For all we know, after the collider scene Spot could be time travelling, killing off spidermen from different universes, doing all kinds of things that would cause incursions.
We'll probably find out he was behind the death of Miguel's family and the destruction of his next reality in revenge for something Miguel will do in the next movie.
Yeah also the way the destruction of Miguel's universe was portrayed is a lot different from what happened in pavitr's universe
One thing Matpat mentioned was the size of the “footprint” crossing over leaves. Until the events of the movie the spider society were hidden away at the top of that massive skyscraper, not really leaving a footprint on the area. If the theory is correct we could see that change in Beyond the spiderverse since so many people witnessed and were affected by the chase scene 🤔
@@johnathanowens2560also we see that Miguel has an algorithm that calculates how much the canon event is disrupted (shown at the beginning before they stop the helicopter) which is equivalent to how much footprint they are leaving in that universe.
Alright to debunk this; Miguel is right. Miles was not destined to become spider-man as proven by the end of the movie where he is sent to the spider's universe and not his. He glitches out because he doesn't have a stabilizer like he does in his home universe. The first being Kingpin's collider and the second being the Spot. These are what keeps that universe stable because the canon can't be repaired. In the universes where it can I believe they make events happen to provide some level of emotionally impact to still occur that strengthens said Spider-Man and if that fails then the universe dies
There’s a few flaws to this theory.
Into the spiderverse we see 5 different spider people from 5 different universes coming into Miles’ universe and nothing happened. And before someone says “they didn’t leave a big impact”. We also see the spider enter a universe it didn’t belong and it left quite a big impact, causing Aaron and Peter to die, setting Miles on a new destiny and creating the Spot, yet nothing happened to Miles’ universe. We also see in Nueva York, in the universe where 2099 spiderman sets up the spider society, we see thousands of spider people hanging out there, and we know this isn’t a recent thing as we see Miguel collecting spider people since into the spiderverse, which Miles explains was a year ago. If Miguel living a normal life was enough to cause an incursion there is no way that a entire society of thousands of people from other dimensions coming in and out of dimensions and intervening for over a year is not enough to cause an incursion. Furthermore, we see Wanda killing the illuminati and nothing happening as a result, no incursions was caused, I doubt that saving one person would.
And finally, we see incursions look like 2 universes crashing into each in Multiverse of Madness, destroyed, but we still see remnants of the universe, what happened to Miguel was his universe disintegrating, and other universes collapsing as well. We saw at least 3 other universes also collapsing. Incursions only involve 2
I had the start of this theory but couldn’t get it quite right. This really clears it up for me
If MatPat is right on this one, then that means the only way to avoid incursions would be for everyone to return to their respective universes, given that the likely hood of incursions is increased by an individual’s footprint in another universe.
What really really scares me about that is that Miles and Gwen are from different universes, and if being in a different universe risks an incursion, then that would mean they would never be able to see each other again. What’s even worse is that this is kinda foreshadowed when Gwen says that the relationship “never ends well.” Miles and Gwen being split up could be the big tragedy at the end of the franchise.
I’m PRAYING that I’m wrong here! (And tbh maybe I am since I haven’t seen the movie yet due to a hectic few weeks, but I’m going to as soon as I get the opportunity).
I think he might be wrong on the incursions as wouldn’t the spider from earth 42 crossing over create one since it caused Peter to die and miles to become spider-man. At least that’s my thinking
I'm not entirely sure on how incursions work, but wouldn't they have a butterfly effect like with the Earth 42 spider? If Miles had his entire destiny changed to be Spiderman, then that would spiral into everyone who Spiderman meets into having THEIR destinies changed, and before you know it, Earth 1610 has a giant tidal wave of incursions all originating from a single spider.
If this thought process is true, then that probably means that all the other Spidies that Miles met / changed indirectly through the supercollider not being shut off in time, will have their universes in danger. Noir has a world where the knowledge of our colors exist for example, that seems pretty major with all the research that might be done on it.
@@shibainu2528 fair point. MatPat can brush over this stuff from time to time
What if like all the Spider-Men jumping into his universe causes his universe to merge with Gwen and Peter's as an excuse for Miles to spend more time with them.
Sense all the spider people are in Miguel's universe wouldn't that make an incursion?
Japanese Spider-Man was promised to be in Spiderverse 2, but that was before it was split into 2. As it stands, Spiderverse 3 has a very likely chance of having Japanese Spider-Man
All i need from Spiderverse 3 is some kind of Tengen Toppa Sp//der Leopardon, i don't even care if it's dumb or unnecessary.
AYYYYY YAYYYYY
But rlly does it matter at all he is a power anger rip off it’s boring soo I ask again who cares?
I need Japanese spiderman to fly in out of nowhere in his spaceship and blast some minions soooo bad
@@uwuface1828 A lot of people care, and it matters because it will be fucking hilarious. He is a Power Rangers rip off, but it's funny.
When Miguel fights Miles on top of the train, Miguel's words "You're the first anomaly" were about the spider that bit Miles, and he was talking to the spider.
I really like this theory, and I definitely think this is the way the trilogy is going to go, especially since Miguel is set up as the antagonist in this movie.
So given that the spot can go between universes as he pleases, doesn’t that make him essentially a walking incursion?
Oh definitely. The dude is gonna be the downfall of the multiverse.
That’s why he needs to be dealt with ASAP
@@anonimoose165Unless he is stopped. The issue is that he is so unpredictable at this point no one knows how. I just wonder if he is solved in the end of Beyond or just the solution gets found at the end of beyond
@@ThatComputerGuyRyanmy theory is that he will be defeated in the beginning/first half of beyond, and then the rest will have Miguel as the main antagonist
i believe his powers have a preotection against tht just like other power and wat about tht girl from doctor strange with multiversal powers to wat if their powers grant them not to be detected cause the anomol is due to confusion of the universe in the first place
I believe the bracelets they wear to travel dimensions also keep them from tearing the universes apart. Otherwise the universe where the spider society is would probably tear apart from there being so many spider-men in it but it doesn't. Even after they all start swinging through the entire city when going after Miles.
I think you mean by a gizmo, and gizmo is a navigation watch where you could go to any universes, and can prevent you from glitching.
I'm not sure what the spider society is, because it might be a different plane of existence instead
spider society is Miguel's home world, I think, it's future new york(2099).
@@CreepDestroyer it was Miguel's universe
@@mamamo96 no? No it wasn’t.
2:03 I AGREE i need to watch this with subtitles, i remember schaffrilas saying this is the only time he's ever wanted to watch something with subtitles on
Finally getting to this theory because I just watched the movie, I was actually thinking similar the whole time. Like I knew there had to be some other reason besides breaking canon events for it to happen, but I really didn't know what was causing it and how we could get around this. Like I know in my heart Miles will save his dad in the next movie and break the curse because thats what the story is setting up, but I couldn't really explain why the timelines broke, but this makes allot of sense. It adds up well. I really like how Sony is letting there movies exist in the MCU, just as alternate universes within it. And like that works well because thats what the comics have been doing for years now. Its been assumed this entire time that the MCU was just an alternate universe within the comics multiverse as well, this is just out right confirming it.
I love how matpat matches the film theory introduction theme to the movie every time
There's a couple of other parts in Across that disprove Canon Events that I'm surprised Mat didn't go over.
1. The hole in Pavitr Prabhakar's dimension was caused the Spot and the collider, Miguel blaming Miles for breaking the canon and causing that was just coincidence.
2. At the end of the movie, Gwen's dad (Captain Stacy) is revealed to have quit his job and his universe isn't destroyed, which is the biggest and most explicit clue that Miguel is wrong.
3. This one is slightly less obvious and not confirmed, but a person accidently being bit by a spider to become Spider-Man can't be a Canon Event, since Miguel himself wasn't, at least in the comics, he was purposely recreating the powers of the original Spider-Man in his universe, so the idea that there can't be more than one Spider-person in one universe is also wrong.
plus its not like Miles wanted to be spiderman, he got bit because Spot brought a spider from a different dimension to that universe, plus the encursion thing makes sense as any spiderperson in the wrong universe without a bracelet starts to glitch out
Since Gwen came from another universe how is her falling for miles and dying because of it a canon event, since there was no way of them meeting without kingpin opening the portals and stuff
Taking into account Mat's theories and what you said in number 2, if Miguel is 100% right, Gwen's world/universe would've gone poof before she even leaps off her window. 🤔🤣
Also meows morales exists
My problem with this incursion theory is the spider society has hundreds of ppl from different universes in one universe so if an incursion was going to happen it would probably be in that universe
In the Arrow show there was massive fan backlash because Oliver Queen ended up with Felicity Smoak instead of Laurel Lance. It's a perfect example of what you said about people being stuck in the way that things are supposed to be
Such a great point. TBH Laurel was always kind of a youthful infatuation, and she's pretty fickle throughout the show. She's kind of impulsive and immature. Like I can cut her some slack cuz she goes through some crazy stuff, but it makes me feel less bad about Oliver not ending up with her.
What I HATED was how Felicity and Oliver legit ride off into the sunset and are happy, and then they just chuck it out the window. Felicity is super immature throughout that whole arc, and they could have brought Arrow out of retirement in a better way. A much more natural/organic transition that gives the storyline the space to contend with the tension of playing it safe vs going to help people (plus other similar themes) would have been way better.
OR....just end the show on a happy note! Shows CAN END. SHOCKER! And they can continue to have Arrow guest start in other shows and just hang a lantern on it and Oliver can say "just this once" or something.
Anywho, end of rant.
Right about at 15:36, I started feeling like you were talking to exactly how I was feeling.
What I like about this theory is that it connects back to the first movie where they found themselves in a situation where they're dying by being in another universe. In other words, the universe will either try to remove the intruder or it will self destruct in the process of it can't
The spider that bit miles also was glitching out in the first movie
So this was a set up from start
Omg, like an Immune System
Except no such thing happened in no way home or multiverse of madness, the logic is completely inconsistent
@@DarthVader-wk9sd exactly. and in miguels world theres literal hundreds of spiders and no incursion. I don't think he put much thought into this theory
@@DarthVader-wk9sda case could be made for the difference in how they got to other multiverses, the collider incident is definitely a far less sophisticated way to travel to other universes causing some form of dimensional feedback not present it’s magic
I’m hoping they find a way to allow people to exist in other universes without causing Incursions. The Watches and Day Passes stop them from glitching out when in other dimensions, so since those devices stabilize their forms in other worlds, it may be possible it limits the possibility of Incursions, which is why the entire Spider Society can exist all at once in Nueva York without causing an Incursion, they’re completely stabilized. And the reason Mumbattan was starting to experience one was because Miles didn’t have a day pass at the time, so he wasn’t stabilized and thus threatened the stability of Mumbattan
It also seems The Spot may be an exception as we never see him glitch out ONCE, which may just be a side effect of the dark matter portals coating his body. They naturally warp him to other dimensions so they may have naturally formed in such a way the dimensions they connect to don’t experience Incursions as a result
One of the better conclusions I've seen yet here
or its just spots erasure power at work
If people from different dimensions can cause incursion (without the band) then miles universe should be destroyed in the first movie due to the presence of multiple people from different universe in his universe without the safety band.
@Thejus Incursions aren't always 100%, they've been explained as an event that could likely happen, not as a guaranteed thing
Interesting take. I saw it the other way around: the bands are *causing* the universes to collapse. In "Into", everyone in the wrong dimension kept glitching, and Doc Ock mentioned that the longer they stayed, the more they'd glitch until they disintegrated. So it seems to me that Miguel's bands, by preventing the *people* from glitching, create a sort of fallback effect where the *universe* glitches/disintegrates instead, and the longer they're there, the more it falls apart.
It doesn't explain Nueva York being stable, though... But then, your idea doesn't explain why Earth-1610 wasn't collapsing in "Into", so I think both options have questions that need answering.
I haven't seen a single comment mentioning something I observed when I saw Across the Spider-verse in any Spider-verse related video:
When Mumbattan starts to get swallowed up by the reality-breaking hole thing, I noticed that it looked a lot like one of Spot's portals
i also do question why characters from the mcu while traveling to other universes don’t “glitch” while in spiderverse it’s a key and reoccurring idea. at first it would make sense cause it’s cartoons vs real life, but to people in spiderverse they are “real” especially with characters like spider ham and the spectacular spider-man. only other explanation i have is mcu travels the multiverse by either magic or some other “ability”
The sad part too is that I also think Miguel is pushing all the blame onto Miles, WANTING him to be the problem, because if he's not, that means that Miguel killed his family in a different world, and he doesn't want to be a part of that. So by taking out Miles, he wants to fix everything.
Edit: To clarify what I mean, since a lot of people seem to be a bit confused (my bad, I didn't word it very well), what I'm saying is that, to him, Miles HAS to be wrong. Because if it was the breaking of canon events, it was Miles that started it and while Miguel was at fault, now he's making up for it.
If Miles is correct, that means that not only has everything he's been doing to try and "repent" for what happened became useless, but it also means that there could have been a way to save his family, or do things differently that could have changed the outcome. Great power, great responsibility kinda thing.
So I think that's why he's going after him so hard, not because it'll save lives but because he will have to face the truth if Miles is right.
(Long comment, sorry)
Miguel fears having Miles and other Spiderman make his mistakes because he killed everyone from ignorance.
@@justice8718 Yes, I think so, but I also think that he wants to shift some of the blame onto Miles. Obviously it's not stated, but I think that's part of why he's so desperate to go after Miles, by saying it was all his fault, it removes some of the blame from Miguel and I think that's what he wants. To feel like it's not his fault, even if it's just a little bit.
@@bambisbluebell killing your family will do that to you
@@bambisbluebell He blames himself outright in his own speech. It's the first thing he explained.
this is called the identified patient, commonly seen in problematic group dynamics of varying natures (most typically addressed in families). There's lots of problems going on and everyone collectively decides that it's all rooted in one person, smaller group, etc. "Oh, if only so-and-so would stop doing such-and-such everything would fix itself." It's usually a mix of shifting responsibility and wanting to maintain a sense of control over your life, relationships, and environment.
To be fair, the main priority of the Spider-Society isn't just to reinforce canon events but to capture anomalies that could also cause incursions.
With matpat 2 cent. This now includes themselves 😂
@@drlovec6925They are not changing the universes. They are just stopping the mistakes. The incursion in the second secret wars was caused by Amadeus Cho or whatever his name was of Earth 1610 maintain the portal from the Spider-Men comicbook open, which cause the multiverse to converge.
Ironically, while Miguel calls Mile an anomaly. He himself is one. and he's a very dangerous one as his meir presence destroyed a reality. I honestly think he going to have to die to fix all the damage the society has done because if it wasn't for him. The damage wouldn't have been this bad.
@@kratkartan1486 Miles became an anomaly and Miguel himself isnt an anomaly he just made one by destroying that world
@@asd-dv7dq You literally just said the reason why Miguel himself is an anomaly. His presence alone caused an entire universe to die. If you're going to call Miles one for those things happening, then you have to say the same for him. Miguel is a massive hypocrite.
You know my feelings! I was so so excited to find my man Japanese spider man. Didn't even watch a trailer as not to spoil my self.
It was really frustrating not finding him the movie. Literally half the reason I went for the movie was to see him!
The Spider Society is kind of a cult that sacrifices people to satisfy the universe and as soon as the sacrifices stop the universe collapses.
I feel like I'm the only one who's mentioned this, but the hole that opens in Mumbattan looks nothing like Miguel's universe collapsing. Personally, I think that it's obviously just The Spot leaving behind a huge hole, intentionally or not, because of his strengthened powers
I actually thought it was the Spot trying to destroy that city until it was said that it was something to do with the "canon events" stuff
Somebody also mentioned that Miguel's universe disappearing matches the visuals of when kingpin's machine blew up
@@badsaturnz23 Oh yeah, now that you mentioned it.
It could be possible that Miguel wolrd was destroyed by Miles's Kingpin.
In that universe, Miguel's Kingpin family was still alive, then Miles' Kingpin use the collider to pull that family away, resulting in an unstable universe. Miguel infiltrate that wolrd make it worse, thus the unstable wolrd collapse.
yeah its just the spot
I swear in the movie they mention that they’ve dealt with this before and so it’s surely similar to ‘breaking the canon’ and not due to the spot using his power
I think the Tom Holland Spider-Man technically had two uncle Ben moments. You have Aunt May, but I think the more important one is actually Tony Stark in endgame. If Tony Stark counted toward the Uncle Ben moment, he would definitely fit in a little bit easier with the timeline.
good point there
Poor MCU Peter, he lose Tony, May, Ben, Zendaya, reputation and probably soon his best friend.
And He was dusted 5 years, maybe ITS Like a Stop Button for the Countdown to breakdown
Toby McGuires best role ua-cam.com/video/d8U6sXScREc/v-deo.html
@@EndyMiTsonhe didn't lose zendaya yet, but emotionally he did
YOU KILLED THIS ONE BRAVO!
A question I had is how miles’ spider affected his dna enough for him to be sent to 42, but not enough to stabilize him while he’s there
I was under the impression he got sent there because the machine read the spiders' home universe rather than the persons, and Miles was just the first where it wasn't the same for both
The machine reads the spiders dna not the person. This is said earlier on in the movie
Yeah you’d think he would be able to survive in both dimensions without problems, I guess they needed to make an obvious show that he was in the wrong universe and put a deadline on him being there without assistance in Beyond
@@M_k-zi3tn them how does it know where to send villains?
When you're talking about the laws of the multiverse itself, I think it goes a bit further than just DNA. Even if Miles' DNA is from Earth 42, he didn't originally come from there. Perhaps there's some sort of invisible bond between a person and a universe that isn't related to biology
You know its a good multiverse movie when it ACTUALLY takes you to multiple universes
*Doctor Strange 2 looking awkwardly from the corner*
@@samcochran8203 Doctor Strange 2 wasn’t good tho
That's what was implied by his comment
@@mr.bulldops_9352 yeah, I thought before viewing it that it had the greatest chance to stand out from the typical modern marvel drivel Disney had been pushing out, but I was sadly mistaken, and the film was just left me with a feeling of meh. I loved the raimi cams and the jumpscares, but that was the biggest part, the better parts after that were most of the ones that included strange, because a lot of his scenes were bogged down either by America or Wanda
2:10 And one of the co-directors also mentioned it too
I'm starting to think marvel is showing that it might not just be people causing incursions soon enough but that the new avengers movie planned for in phase 6 avengers secret wars will be getting alot of hype very soon with all the incursions happening and it would certainly become a huge shock that even when they've fixed these issues that if incursions still occur and are happening more often that someone is pulling us towards an early multiverse disaster.
It could be that everything can just be prevented using Miguel's bracelets. They seem to be doing a pretty good job, example being the fact that the world Spider Society uses as a homebase is still there.
In both in film examples of universes collapsing or on the brink of it, we see outsiders without bracelets. Miles in Mumbattan and Miguel in the collapsed one.
I think for Mumbattan the Spot is also is at fault, like any other villain that the Spider-Society hunts and captures.
Did anyone else notice that Miguel replacing his alternate self is kinda odd if Mile's is technically the first anomaly? If Mile's is the first, that would mean Miguel is aware of it, but he still chose to replace another Miguel from a different universe? Why would he do that if he knew the risk? That would therefore mean that MIGUEL was the first anomaly, not Miles.
I am kinda confuse on that too, what happened first did Miguel travelled a different dimension or did miles got bitten first,
@@DarkxxStorm most likely miguel travelling since miles hasnt been spider man for long maybe a year or 2 and miguel couldnt have set up the whole entirety of Spider Society in 1-2 years. So Miguel is the first anomaly
Spiderman 2099 has started recruiting spider ppl in into the spider verse post credit scene, that means he was the first anomaly
Aight, it's probably that miles was the first but Miguel wasn't aware of it. He only made the spider society after his mistake. So he could have traced the causes of anomalies and found out about miles after.
@@x0Fang0x @DarkxxStorm most likely miguel travelling since miles hasnt been spider man for long maybe a year or 2 and miguel couldnt have set up the whole entirety of Spider Society in 1-2 years. So Miguel is the first anomaly
3:44 Well actually, it was a grieving Kingpin who funded the collider along with Johnathan Ohnn's (The Spot's) multiversal experiment (taking Earth 42's Spider) that started everything.
That is a great theory.... it would be fantastic to see if the next spiderverse film goes this route....
Mat also didn’t mention the fact that (at least in the comics) Miguel O’Hara was never bitten by a radioactive spider, as well as Ben Reilly and Jessica Drew, which is another hole in the idea that every spider person needs to experience that canon event
Not all events are the same.
@@blackmanwithcomputer Ok but there really aren’t many variations to “Getting bit by a spider”
Miguel had his DNA experimented on.
Ben Riley is a clone and was basically *born* as Spider-Man
These aren’t variations of the spider bite event. They are completely different. And if the variation in a canon event can be THAT wide, then the whole concept of canon events wouldn’t exist.
I find it funny that Matpat used all the cannon events that could be opposed by 'Timing doesn't matter' while leaving out the event that was called out by name as necessary, will obviously never happen to certain 'cannon' spider-men, and is arguably the most noticeable discrepancy in the film.
@@thefnafdetective Japanese Spider-Man was given a power ranger morpher. Pavitr was blessed by a Spider god. There's not a lot, but there's others.
The canon events are just variations of events that are similar amongst all of them, but he didn't every event is the same for all of them. It's a meta thing, because most of all the different variants are based off the OG Peter's storylines. Miguel would obviously have no idea why these things happen to them, but he knows it does because he's been studying the multiverse for over a year obsessively trying to find out why that universe was destroyed. Countless hours of observation and interactions have had him come to the conclusion that certain events are too important to be stopped. Maybe that version of his daughter was supposed to become a Spider-Person, but her father needed to die?
Hopefully we'll find out in Beyond, because I find it interesting that two major antagonists, Miguel and Jess, clearly didn't have their origins and backgrounds clearly explained. Whereas everyone else has been explained.
@@blackmanwithcomputer Those are not variations of being bit by a spider. They’re so ridiculously different that it’s stupid to say that they’re the same as being bit by a spider.
If being BIT by a SPIDER is a canon event, then all of these examples break canon. None of these spiders were bit.
I hope Miguel has a character arc, I really like his design and I think there could definitely be more good backstory content to see. I think it would be really cool to see him redeme himself and let people in a little.
Nice
fr I am bulking because of him ☠️
Miguel is one of those "bad guys" that isn't evil, just misguided. He truly thinks he's doing the best for the many at the expense of the few, but as MatPat pointed out, he's working off limited data and emotional response.
@@nhogan84 agreed!
i like his design too if yk what i mean