Vertical punches were used in boxing. Bare-knuckle boxers were using Vertical punches for years, that's why it is so common in traditional martial arts. It protects your hand because it is structurally more sound. Also, the general fact is straight punches don't really knock a lot of people out, curved punches are far more likely to do that.
i am a Silat practitioner, and in silat we practice to move without "bouncing around" like in karate or TKD, its still a very effective way to move And yes we do spar a lot in south east asia, unlike the silat school in US and Europe
@le batonas yea i would agree, but here im just saying that you dont have to "keep moving" or "constantly jumping" like what rokas said in order to respond to enemy strikes. In fact we practice a lot of takedowns and throw from that kind of stance (I mentioned Karate and TKD just because of the footage he show earlier)
@@robbyakbarsyah I don’t think Rokas claimed that was the only effective strategy. Just that that’s why they do it. Which is true. Thai fighters also don’t bounce that much and are very square. No one has ever questioned if they can fight.
Nearly everything Seagal sensei taught Jesse & Oliver is common to Okinawan Kara te Ryu. I've seen Shinjo Kiyohide use the same punch to the leg. The vertical punch with elbow down, is common to Okinawan iishin ryu Kara te, Japanese Shorinji Kempo, Wing Tsun, English Bareknuckle boxings, Krav Maga Global and other venerated Bareknuckle fighting arts. Jack Dempsey fought Bareknuckle and gloved boxing , was world heavy weight champ, and he taught to punch with same vertical punch for self defense. . .And Jack Dempsey knocked out two armed car jackers whom tried to kidnap him when he was in his 70s. The same spear kick Seagal taught Machida and Silva is taught in Uechi Ryu Kara te. The spear finger strikes to the neck, also in Okinawa Ryu Karat te. Every strike, kick and foot pin is taught in Okinawan Kara te ryu: Goju, Uechi, Shorinryu. So literally nothing Seagal sensei taught is dubious. As for sparring, he's 71 years old with bad knees. When you're 71 you'll be extremely fortunate to be able to still move around like Seagal sensei.
boxers do use a vertical punch. Dempsy talks about it in his book. He explains that is why you need your elbows down. In the jab for example, you have a vertical punch where the elbows are down, and it isn't till the end where the shoulder is twisted, to protect the chin and get a bit more range.
I scrolled to see, because I expected someone to mention this - whether through Dempsey or not. It's common in boxing to rotate your wrist into many punches, but *not* all of them, both horizontal and vertical fists have their uses, and vertical punching was often used in old-fashioned bare knuckle boxing to slip through a gap in a person's guard (or break it open more easily with gloves when the gap's too narrow to fit but wide enough that you can use the vertical punch like a wedge)
In reference to the vertical punch, this was the type of punch that was predominant with old bare-knuckle pugilists, mainly because it's a safer option. People take for granted that you strike with gloves (which are basically giant cushions on your hands) so you can take risks by striking horizontally. Bare-knuckle, that has more power but is more likely to result in a boxer's fracture. Verticle punches also useful for going pass a person's guard because the gloves aren't big, people in MMA are used to blocking how boxers do but this is with the principle that you're wearing big gloves, so the punch can slide through the opponent's guard. In reference to MMA, the reason why MMA fighters don't use it is because their striking is taught using modern boxing techniques, so they're going with what they've been taught. I assure you that if the old style of pugilism was used, it would be more suited to much smaller gloves and therefore MMA.
So it's true that a horizontal screw fist makes for a stronger punch, but you don't always want a stronger punch. Taking aside jabs, modern boxers always do the strongest punch possible because their hands are so well protected, whereas bare knuckle boxers used their punches more tactically. Perhaps vertical punches are better for wearing someone down when your knuckles might get damaged by a long fight, whereas a horizontal punch is better for knocking someone out in the exact moment when you are sure you can hit their jaw and not their skull? That also changes the kind of stance appropriate, which is why the stances were so different in bare knuckle boxing.
This bit makes no sense to me: “ you're wearing big gloves, so the punch can slide through the opponent's guard.”. Surely you could more easily slide past the guard with smaller hands, not bigger.
I struggle to see what is unique on what Seagal is showing here. The front snap kick (mae geri keage) is a well know karate technique. The vertical punch is know in Karate as Tate Ken. On Jesse’s own website he as an article about this technique from about 12 years ago. The hand/finger grappling techniques are seen in Karate styles as well, mainly in self defence combinations, but also in some arranged sparing combinations.
One of my training partners makes it uncontiously when he gets to grab or lock any fingers or wrists. He says its something he learnt time ago and now he cant control it. As the one in the other side of the ecuation I can say its rather uncomfortable when trying to escape from a lock.
The Founder of Aikido, great master Ueshiba, always did this. It's an Aikijujutsu technique, it took me years to develop the sense of distance to be able to do this. Now I do it without thinking and it's very useful.
I've actually used "slide" footwork in the wild; Both on the job as a security guard, and during friendly sparring matches in the park. It actually helped me find the potholes and the bumps that could've tripped me up, or hurt me if I fell in certain places. For me, it's mostly an extra set of eyes when my actual eyes are fixed on a threat. But far from a mainstay. I've also seen the punching into the round kick gag.....in a movie called "Karate Girl."
I was going to reply, but you beat me to it. The *entire* reason that sliding footwork exists in many traditional martial arts styles (not just Japanese ones, either), is specifically with the anticipation of being on uneven/broken ground. I remember as a young infantryman learning quickly that if you just stomp around, walking as if the ground would always 'be there", you're prone to finding holes, dips, and changes of elevation you didn't anticipate. If you learn to walk "differently", you start learning to find those uneven ground changes and retain your stability a lot better. Many ways to do that, depending on how fast you need to move (shuffle, walk, walk quickly, slow run, etc.). That most dojo people don't know this? Well, that's a time and distance issue... if students never question, and teachers don't teach, information gets lost.
One of the styles I practiced and taught for years was Thammavong Tuk Bando, the basic philosophy was narrowed down to punch the punch and kick the kick. This isn't necessarily verbatim it generally implied that if they are using fast techniques (jabs punches etc) you want to use something as fast to counter it with something that is meant to disable the offending body part. We didn't really have blocks because everything became a strike,
I think there is value in what seagal shows. It's a lot like how I learned to apply TaijiQuan. The idea is that you collide against the opponent coming in, getting a better position, and try to end it right there, by intercepting, striking first and hard (cobrai kai is right). I think this strategy can work in a random fight against one guy who doesn't really know what he's doing. But if the guy is a fighter who knows to manage distance and feints, it's gonna be problematic...But that would be problematic anyway...^^
What I think people keep missing a lot with this man is that he's not solely just an Aikido practicioner. He apparently knows judo among other martial arts, and have gone as far as to teach hand-to-hand and marksmanship while he was in law enforcement. What we have are a lot of videos of him during his public demos of Aikido so that's the only thing people seem to see and know. I recall him applying the knife hand thing using blades in a movie of his when he was younger. The action there was faster, and the effects were quite brutal, as the move did go for vital spots like he often mentions. He applies a lot of stuff to an extent even in his movies from what I can tell. As for the "sliding" feet movement, that's actually more of a language barrier thing from Japanese to English. The context is "suberu you ni ashi o ugokasu" directly translated to meaning "move your feet as if you are sliding" which is the misconstrued and long time spread idea, but the actual intended meaning the Japanese imply here is to move swiftly and "smoothly" (smooth as in sube-sube or suberu). It's not some rule where you stick your feet to the ground and rub it off the asphalt. 😂 My Japanese teacher who is strict got mad at me for asking that to him.
When I did karate, we were taught a very different explanation for the "bouncing" kind of movement, *and* we were taught both that kind of movement and the smoother "sliding" type - except we were told to lift our feet slightly and slide just above the ground, not touching it. If you keep your feet close to the ground and glide smoothly, you stay at one level and don't bounce, and because your feet are closee to the ground while doing so, you can redirect, shift your weight from one foot to the other, and respond faster and easier than if you're lifting your feet more and moving in that bouncing kind of way. The advantage of doing the latter is that you're able to freely change the elevation of your attacks and strike high and low in less predictable ways with less telegraphing when you're changing the height of your attack, because the change in height is integrated with your movement and with direction changes so when you shift up it's unclear if you're doing so to drive a strike up from below, to raise into position to strike high, or simply to move to a new position in preparation for a hit. The reason for keeping our feet close to the ground but not in contact while sliding was the protection of knees and the ability to avoid catching your feet on unstable surfaces- just like you've mentioned. We were also directly told that "you can get away with this in the dojo" we were instructed not to do so because it would encourage poor form in situations where you can't trust the ground to be on your side in the same way.
there was a part you didn't cover, I don't blame you, there was a lot of stuff that he showed to cover in this vid, where steven teaches them how to take someone into a finger lock, he tells them to take a standard boxing stance, with both hands in front of the face, and essentially teaches them that if someone's hands are relaxed, or open at any point, and their fingers are exposed, which admittedly can happen, it is actually possible using a quick up and down motion like a sword to quickly grab their fingers, and of course I was kind of skeptical of this, but I like to spar bare knuckle too, and I tried it, and honestly, I was able to pull it off a couple times, and my opponent even did it to me a couple times... it REALLY fucking hurts 😅
Sometimes you can roll a fist up. One hand on the wrist one holding the fingers clossed. Can go in different directions depending on how they resist. Up into the armpit is usually possible. Ti's painful. You can then usually do what you want with the arm for a second.
@Sam Everest try it. I been in a lot of real fights and my hands hurt from hitting hard bone on a person with bear hands. So go try it. Then get back to me.
In kajukenbo, we have a technique that involves punching a kicking leg at the hip flexor. In training it looks decent enough In sparring, I’ve seen more than one person get laid out by the kick rather than neutralizing it.
Thanks for sharing...I am curious about this one. I've stuffed kicks with my feet before but never using a fist...and never getting lucky and hitting a nerve.
On turning the fist when you punch: 1. The "twisting of the fist" does not add power. Rotating the shoulder does. It's a subtle distinction but it shows up on a pressure plate. Basically the rotation needs to develop from the shoulder not the wrist. Most useful and powerful in the Western boxing right cross. 2. You can rotate your shoulder (in a different axis) in a vertical fist wing chun style punch. Power is not as much as a right cross, but still hits very hard. 3. With practice, the entire critical chain (foot, knee, hip, torso, shoulder, elbow) can be engaged in the vertical punch. 4. The hand / arm RETRACTS faster in the vertical orientation. 5. This allows faster combinations, strike chaining, and improved trapping which can lead to locks and takedowns. 6. It also keeps the elbows covering the ribs. To be clear, a right cross hits 25-30% harder than the hardest vertical punch. But, it's less versatile.
Someone should mention that Steven seagal is 71 years old and still teaches and gets around pretty well. The power of practicing martial arts has on your health and longevity. Go sensei !
🤣🤣🤣 LOL !!! Is it because of the martial arts he became an overly inflated whale !? The dude can’t get out of a chair without a stunt double doing it for him! I know 81 year olds moving around much more nimbly and swiftly than Seagal does!
@@frontenac5083 you're a cornball and Seagal has a messed up back, Injury from late 90's and I'm sure you've never been as good of a martail artist as he was in his day
@@frontenac5083 That inflated whale could likely kill you if he wanted to. I don't think he has stunt doubles because of not being able to do stuff. It's just that he's pretty lazy or doesn't wanna show himself getting punched on film. There's only one time where he willingly gets punched on camera but this was way back in one of his first movies which kickstarted his popularity, therefor he wasn't known yet so he didn't care. He's 6'4 and a master in a martial art he's been practicing for 60 years. I don't think him being a little overweight is gonna stop him from kicking someone's ass if he needs to.
my opinion is still the same, aikido was meant to be for law enforcement only (which is why takeda taught in police stations up and down japan), and as a police officer i have used the fingers and sankyo, it works because the person is not trying to fight you but push you away to avoid being detained. Aikido's main problem is that its taught in reverse to nearly all martial arts, normally you use strength to get speed and power, and much later (years) you begin to relax, but you make it work in the begining by strength.Aikido on the other hand encourages students to relax from day 1, so you never get to force techniques through strength, so you don't know reallyhow to make them work.
Sliding feet is deception. Move your feet as coming down from floating tanden. I agree with you about kicking. He should show how to defend shrimp kick of Taido. Your idea of Sankyo is based on Aikikai style. You should try Yohshinkan style Sankyo. It is so powerful that People with Aikikai usually hate it.
This video did a great job of giving a fair assessment... Neither writing off Segal's style completely nor taking his teaching as gospel. This UA-camr sems very knowledgeable and objective. Also, love the long suffering look he gives the camera at 11:49 when Segal pronounces "ka-ra-TE." Earned a sub right there and put a smile on my face.
You have a great attitude. Respectful, yet skeptical in a serious way. It was really interesting to hear your opinion on the vertical vs horizontal fist. Big thumbs up!
All very good theories and applications here. But as an old school Goju-Ryu practitioner, I was always taught from the Masters," learn your Katas and learn them well, forward and backwards. Your self-defense is in your Katas". Now the way that you perform the katas is not necessarily how you will fight per say, but all of your strikes, blocks, defensive and offensive moves are all in there. That was the main reason the old Masters created them in the first place as to not forget secret techniques. One must learn to analyze and dissect the movements and put them together so that they will work best for you. Katas will always remain as the basic fundamentals for whatever your style is.
On the point of kata, it really depends how you interpret them and who is teaching it. A lot of karate instructors don't know the bunkai from kata and this is a point that Jesse Enkamp and Iain Abernethy had made. However kata is not meant to be used sequentially nor taken literally as it is showed on the surface. They present combative ideas and principles which are meant to be taken from and used individually as a tool in a free style manner. Anthony Vincio has got a video somewhere showcasing how he uses kata in a fight and I think he has demonstrated that with Jesse Enkamp.
I don’t think you can be a good fighter only learning kata. But you can’t really be a good fighter only hitting a heavy bag either. Kata does similar things. Improves functional strength, coordination, balance, breath, and muscle memory. It’s no better or worse than shadow boxing. Just another tool to use.
Agreed but I think that's the point. You learn individual techniques and practice applying them before you put them into a solo routine. That's how you would be trained in judo, ShorinjiKempo, and many other Japanese or Japanese-influenced martial arts. I don't know why karate is backwards. There are also plenty of old karate adepts who say that the emphasis on kata is a newer thing, and that in the old days, more effort was spent on basics, conditioning, and sparring. But there seems to be a lot of variation depending on the instructor/school.
@@Sir_Pants_Alot yes kata can help you with those things you mentioned...but most importantly they all lead up to the bunkai as well as the ashi sabaki and tai sabaki. Then once you got you some kata and kihon down then you transfer those techniques from them into kumite (sparring) in a freestyle manner. Kihon, kata and kumite are connected. Now of course there's two types of kumite, one is the competition style and the other is dojo style which is essentially freestyle. You can apply the tai sabaki and ashi sabaki from kihon, kata and kihon ippon kumite into freestyle kumite.
@@InGrindWeCrust2010 Well, modern karate has got it backwards but okinawan karate not so. However with the rise of MMA there are some karate schools that are looking at making their karate practical for self defense through re analyzing the bunkai. And some of them have got their youtube channel. Karate culture is one example, Andy Allen Applied shotokan is another, John Titchens, Don came and vince morris.
@@MrMattias87 What I'm referring to here is the order in which you learn things, not whether or not someone knows bunkai. I find Okinawan karate schools that I've come across still do it in that order. Kata first, application second. Matsumura Seibukan, Goju, Uechi, Shorin Ryu Kyudokan, Matsubayashi Ryu, on and on. I was surprised to find that a lot of Chinese martial arts in the USA have the same foible. Since we're on the subject. There are plenty of Okinawan karate schools that have/had little idea about bunkai and admit as much. Plus, it's one thing to know it and another to practice it and pressure test it. Sure, there are plenty of practitioners that work to apply practical bunkai. I do. They're just far from the majority and it's an odd phenomenon in karate to me.
in Muay boran there is a similar kind of technique to stop the kick with the arm but it doesn't attack the knee with a punch it attacks the front of the thigh a little higher up and the way I have been taught it is an open hand technique just to stop/block the kick and attack with something else (likely an elbow or knee at that range). but I guess you could punch it, dig the knuckles into the muscle of the thigh which could result in a "dead leg" or if you are feeling particularly nasty drive an elbow in if you are fast/close enough. I have managed to pull this off in sparring maybe once or twice but I would rather just find another way to block or avoid altogether. Another Muay technique similar to what is shown against the front kick is to step to the side and hook under the leg and this can be used as a take down or to dump them on their head... again this is a hooking motion though it does not start with an straight arm as that would waste time. although if you stood still and used a straight arm or scooping motion to redirect the front kick you can have the opponent twist slightly leaving them open for a short amount of time while they regroup in Korat the follow up would be the swing punch or to kick but if used in MMA you could use this opening to shoot a take down or a back take but against people with very snappy front kicks it takes a fair bit of timing have managed this a fair bit in sparring through the years though so it is realistic enough
Yeah if Muaythai fighters can catch the kick that kick so fast and strong in time so The strike to the leg would be more possible due to Strike alway faster than catch or Grab and yes Elbow Block to The leg still slower than hit to the leg with striking.
so I started training mixed martial arts while I was in the military. I attended a training course on suspect apprehension. one of the instructors ( not primary ) was a black belt in aikido. ( at least that's how he was presented ). when he found out I had mixed martial arts experience he wanted to do a full speed scenario with me. ( at the time 3 months ). I obliged, after a few minutes he was frustrated and requested that we no longer start at a distance with each other but we start with my hand grabbing his shoulder.... wanting to be a good sport in the class I again agreed. when we started he quickly grabbed my finger twisted it and broke it the pain pretty much dropped me to my knees.... the problem was once I was on my knees and he had already broken my finger I shot a double leg and began punching the instructor as hard as I could from the ground until the course was separated and discussions had to be held. that s***** instructor is how I see Steven seagal in my head.
I''ll come in on the vertical punch question as a Wing Chun practitioner. The way I was taught was elbow in, and though like any technique, takes time to master, but when you have, the power generation is absurd. I practised on a heavy sand filled bag for several years before I got all the movements involved to align perfectly. I still remember the day i got it right, as I broke the bag mount and the bag went flying, splitting when it landed. I see people saying that punch is crap, but have not mastered the punch. A lot of little nuances are required to be mastered for any technique, and the punch is one of them. That is why the ranking system exists. It shows a certain preficiency has been reached.
Any punch you don't know how to use correctly is a weak punch. Both vertical and horizontal fist punches can generate a lot of power (which is applied in slightly different ways) when performed with good technique. It's important not to judge either as bad if you really want as well-rounded a set of skills as you can get. Many boxers do use vertical punches, but as a situational option, not their only weapon, and usually not the primary one.
@@a-blivvy-yus I started out doing karate in the 70's, so pretty conversant with the horizontal punching as well. As you say, it's correct technique that provides the power.
As usual, you are distinguished in all the topics you present. Your channel is very distinguished and is an important and great reference for martial arts, especially for your important meetings with martial arts experts.
The vertical strike vs horisontal strike, it isn't only about aligning the punch to the shoulder, it is also aligning the punch to the rest of the body all the way down through the legs and to the ground.
In boxing, sometimes we actually tell beginners to keep their thumbs up when punching (i.e. throw vertical). This is because sometimes they throw themselves off balance in the direction opposite their punch- if they throw a straight right hand they throw their balance too far to their left side. By keeping their thumbs up when they punch they don't throw themselves off balance to the contralateral side. Also, they can retract the punch more quickly after throwing it if they keep their hand vertical. But yes, turning the hand over does generate more power and rolls the scapula over to give just a little more reach.
At 09:50 when you are talking about the eye poke and Sanyo move, this cuts to the heart of what many critics of Aikido keep saying.. some variant of “the technique might be effective but getting to use it is extremely hard” because grabbing a wrist or whatever is hard. This reveals an ignorance of what good aikido training is about. You don’t ever go in trying to grab someone’s wrist and apply the technique to them. In real self defence situations there’s so much adrenaline and chaos that you are operating on instinct so when done well the practice trains your instincts to move your body to the right distance, put yourself in the right position, move in the right way strike (atemi) so that your opponent(s) are off guard, off balance, off centre and not able to effectively resist because there’s little to nothing to resist. By the time they work it out it’s too late. They expect to land a punch or kick and the split second they realise it’s not gone the way they expected you’ve gotten their wrist or neck or whatever because you found yourself in the right place at the right time. I’ve experienced this first hand in a street fight 3v1, I had no time to plan anything. No tike to think about my tactical plan or whether I was going to go to use a karate or Muay Thai or Aikido technique or chase someone’s wrist or elbow. It was just years of good training that meant when I reacted I was in the right place relative to them, the opportunities arose they were taken. THAT is the purpose of good aikido training, not learning ‘cool takedowns’ that you try and apply TO someone. If that’s the level of your mentality then of course it will never ‘work’.
The vertical punch also delivers a ton more power in much shorter space then the horizontal punch. The vertical punch is a lot closer to your center and core , so your weight distribution when generated through the legs is a hell of a lot more concentrated . This strike puts people on their asses when in proper proportion ..
The punch to the leg does work. I have done it before, but I am not going on a limb and say I will do it all the time, its a very specific point on the leg, so punching such a small point at that amount of mass moving at that speed creates a very small window of opportunity to execute effecitvely.
Slidding feet in a field actuslly is a great way to avoid stepping on something thst hurts you, have in mind samurais didnt have modern combat boots, they actually had caltrops, they would just throw them on the ground as a way to slow the enemy army
About the "Knuckle Conditioning" and the "Top Fighters" you know: Yes, most of the top fighters today are in "gloved combat sports". But the question is: How much did the development of "Boxing Gloves" influence all combat sports and even so called "traditional martial arts"? See, Boxing had a "bare knuckle past". But most of the punching techniques (also the defense) of modern Boxing are build around wearing wraps and gloves, while it is really hard to reconstruct how Boxers before the "glove era" punched technically and what targets they really aimed for. As far as I know, the first "Kickboxing Combat Sport", french Savate, had also only started to hit with a closed fist when it started to get from dirty streetfighting method with slaps and kicks to "light contact sport for ladies and gentlemen" in fencing clubs, adapting the the gloves from boxing In Muay Thai the same problem, because what we know now as "Muay Thai", is mostly developed by the time, when it started as a gloved sport, inspired by cultural exchange with western boxing in the early 20th century. In Karate I found also no real historical proof, that the punches with closed fists were really meant to hit the harder parts, like the skull, in the original okinawan fighting methods. It is totally possible, that the typical thrusting punches of the "Te"-systems were originally meant for hitting the body, while strikes with elbows, forearms, "Tetsui" (Hammerfist) and "Uraken" (Backfist) were more to hit the head and neck. The height of the traditional karate punch and historical pictures of the height of makiwara training is a bit low for training punches to the head, isn't it?
You are basically correct. Makiwara training was to condition the hands for maximum durability in repeated striking, but the most frequent targets were soft tissue and ribs. That said, palm strikes, finger rakes, and gouges to the head and face were common, as were open hand strikes to the neck.
BTW real Karate, Wing Chung, Punantukan and many other systems of self defense have hand trapping. It’s just a lost part of martial arts. When people don’t know how to apply technique, they usually omit them. But that doesn’t mean they don’t work
Please meet Hanshi Patrick McCarthy. He can help with historical context that can help you put the piece’s together. Also Kaze no RYU on UA-cam. From their Aikijujutsu video’s you can get a perspective of where senseis Aikido originates. Remember, the average punch to an eye usually leads to a black eye. The average poke to the eye usually leads to the lose of the eye. There is a difference between self defense and martial arts sport. Both are effective but seek different outcome’s.
i mean, obviously he isnt able to do any kind of professional fighting. guy is now 70 years old and runs with solid overweight. also, professional fighting is diffrent, training is diffrent. a self defence scenario last maybe 10 seconds (not if two idiots realy wanna fight each other on the streets, i dont call that "self defence scenario"). my idea is: create a scenario where you get attacked by an unknown skrike, kick or whatever. maybe also unknown direction, from one or two persons. defend, end the threat and get out fast as possible (maybe include a girlfriend or whatever). wich technique works here in those situations are useful, the rest is just the "art".
Good stuff Rokas. Boxing coaches often teach their fighters to turn their hand all the way over at the end of its travel, past the horizontal, as this arm position protects the chin behind the shoulder at full extension.
I guess these are basically techniques that need to be repeated over and over until you can complete them correctly in seconds. I am learning some hapkido and of course we are slow, working on every detail, but the teacher can do it in seconds, and also teaches us the technique plus how to "finish it off" once performed. Also, the smallest single mistake renders the technique useless as it may not have the effect intended or leave you defenseless. I dont know much about aikido, but I agree that most demonstrations are lacking. Thank you for breaking the video down for us! Love your channel 😊😊
Have you seen your teacher/ does your teacher actually spar or fight though? My master is a multi time champion. There is video of his fights, and he goes out (even at his age now) and will actively spar with other young black belts. He does not teach any kind of move that needs to be perfectly performed with no small mistakes as types of moves will get you in trouble. Combat is fast and sloppy. The question you should be asking is do these moves only ever work in a controlled demo where the teacher knows what move is coming and the striker just stands there while the move is happening? Does your teacher fight students ever? If yes, then great. If no, that's also fine... but at least understand that these are weaknesses in your self defense.
@@binnieb173 Yes, he does. He also is a TKD black belt and knows kickboxing. Look into hapkido, there should be some videos online where the techniques can be seen and judge yourself.
@@thetrickster3616 I don't know your teacher. I am just giving advice. It is possible you are learning great techniques from a gifted instructor. In which case great, I am very happy to hear that. I have never seen punching a kick as a viable move personally. If it was, as the video states, it would probably be in the UFC.
@@binnieb173 no, we are definitely not being taught how to stop kicks with a punch, we are learning useful and quick stuff to be able to defend ourselves and runaway; the kind of moves that anyone who does not have a martial arts background can perform relatively easily. Ocasionally, he does teach us some more complicated hapkido moves because we ask him to; if you check hapkido videos you'll see those techniques are very precise and require much knowlesge about the body's pressure points and so on, definitely not an easy martial art to learn or practice imho.
From what I've heard, the striking from Hapkido is generally legitimate, the throws not so much, better than Aikido but still mostly compliant single attack into wrist control and breakfall.
Seagal's "philosophy" on what he calls "fighting" is 100% dependant on the hope and/or blind assumption that your opponent only throws one attempted attack towards you which apparently in turn, and according to him,the only one to think this in the entire MA world, automatically allows his aikido method instant entry into your defense and take you down successfully every time no matter what style.....It also professes a successfull one shot offense(strike/grab or lunge) that apparently transitions into a totally flawless and unfoiled "aikido" throw that sends the attacker into the "shadow realm".Neither of those "philosophies"are based in any kind of reality other than dojo games and i don't care who's selling that line of garbage.It'a a load of fantasy wannabe samurai bullshit.Actual fighting is never,NEVER a one/two exchange where the invincible aikidoka always walks away victorious being untouchable.It's a total idiotic,misleading,untruthfull,fantasygame play method of thinking.If people knew the actual truth about Seagal they'd probably slap themselves out of shear embarassement for fanboying him...Then again only inexperienced cheetos fingered fanboys are usually the only ones to get but hurt by the facts about their paper warrior movie star blowhard so what do they know anyway...lol...✌
I love your critique, some very grounded skepticism on the techniques used. Actually, it is very much appreciated as I agree with you ... the question is ... would you go up against Segal, and be able to use all this analysis? What would be your alternative to these techniques? My take is that what is being demonstrated here are techniques. It's difficult to execute any technique in a combat situation - unless they don't see it coming or if you are well trained for a long, long while. In any altercation, regardless of what style or skill level, if you don't see it coming and you get hit right - it's all over! I am enjoying your channel and appreciate it very much - looking forward to where you go on your martial arts journey!
@@gi7685 at one point while in Romania a bunch of random dudes decided to just beat the guy up. Which they did. A lot of fun was being made surrounding the moment.
@@gi7685 Don't say nonsense! How do you think he received the seventh dan from the Masters of Japan? How many times did he need to be beaten to receive this degree?? I trained directly with Steven Seagal sensei's oldest student, he is very good! For you to know if a Master is genuine, you need to analyze his students. Matsuoka Sensei, the student of Seagal Sensei, is a martial artist beyond all doubt. That Rokas doesn't know anything about fight.
@@alexandrealves2877 No black belt in the world proves you can fight. Fighting proves you can fight. Funny how such a “warrior” that spent a career on camera has never been recorded sparring with anyone. Hell even when he’s in a movie any time his character needs to take a hit he insists a stunt double does it.
@@Sir_Pants_Alot You are confused. Inside Japan things are not like in your country. AIKIKAI doesn't deliver seventh Dan to those who don't know how to fight, things are pretty serious in the country of the rising sun. Seagal wasn't an actor until one guy was impressed when he saw him teaching and took him to Hollywood. I don't live off movies, I have 40 years on the mat and I was the best in Brazil, I trained directly with the most advanced student of Seagal sensei and by the disciple you know the master. Rokas is lost talking nonsense.
@@Sir_Pants_Alot I have a degree in several martial arts, I was Brazilian Judo champion, BJJ state champion within Brazil, I trained boxing, capoeira, TKD... Seagal Sensei's Aikido comes from renowned masters from Japan, he studied with Abe Sensei, with Tohei Sensei, there's no way to argue about these masters. They are legends in Japan.
7:50 The principle is more about energy, chain of motion, etc. I agree with you that it seems more practical to treat your first like an object on the end of a whip or lever, but I think once you're already in close and past the sort of sniff-each-other-out range, you want your body behind your punches as much as possible. Maybe a good idea would be to develop a striking technique where your strike ends up vertical but you still work in rotational force and create the curved whip motion too.
I got a really nice knockdown in a kickboxing fight by throwing a vertical fist jab through his guard, then pulling his left hand down as I brought my hand back and landing a right. I've found this type of technique works best with a vertical fist, even with mma gloves. It just puts your arm in better position for hooking your opponent's arm.
Oyo Henka! Extremely difficult but possible. A student retracted his hard, fast right cross at Saotome Mitsugi and Saotome Sensei put him down no problem. And Saotome Sensei is an old man. When he was younger, his Randori against guys who were actually coming hard at him is impressive. Oyo Henka is the Aikido discipline of learning how to deal with resistance and sudden changes of direction and force. Very difficult, but possible. Good wrestlers practice Oyo Henka more than Aikido guys even though Oyo Henka is a part of the curriculum in some Aikido schools. In the end, I blame the lack of intense sparring in most Aikido dojos, but in the past, Ueshiba first taught his disciples deadly techniques so they could see how Aikido stops short of maiming or killing someone, or it continues to move when at previous points in the technique it would destroy someone. Then he would ask his disciples to go all-out so they could learn how Aikido can truly work. Aikido is the utmost highest form of fighting and it should be learned LAST, after you've learned other hard styles first. One MUST take Aikido's metaphysical principles seriously or it's never going to reach combat level. The ways of kokyu (breathing arts), ki, and Zen steadiness of one's nerves in the face of extreme threats. So difficult. But...possible!
i have been following your channel for a long time. i really do appreciate your whole journey, from being mad and quitting over discovering new ways and doing what you do now. and honestly, i do admire you for your honesty and how you exposed your journey and feelings to all of us. and as you can sense it, there is a 'but' coming... lately, imho, you have fallen to the trap of 'if it works it will be in mma'. i ask you to remember that mma is a sport, and sport has rules. i can understand what you want to say but claiming that 'if its not in mma it doesnt work' is, honestly, stupid. im not defending mr segal, im not saying you are not correct on the way ukes hold up and wait, what i want to say is that there is a difference between sports and ideas in MA. at the end of the day, a punch in the head is a punch in the head, if it works great, if it is allowed in sport even better. but that doesnt mean something 'will not work since its not in mma', example: a karate shuto (sword hand?) in the neck i know i wouldnt like to get one in my neck and its NOT ALLOWED in mma, same as breaking someones fingers (not easy to do but it would help you win a fight). I hope you see my point and dont take it to personally :) Keep up the good work
Sure, the notion "if it works it will be in mma" is extreme. But so is the "pfft, sports have rules" dismissal. Biggest issue is you guys not understanding the ruleset. A knifehand to the neck IS legal. The unified rules state: _"No directed throat strikes are allowed. A directed attack would include a fighter pulling his opponents head in a way to open the neck area for a striking attack. *If during stand-up action of a fight a strike is thrown and the strike lands in the throat area of the fighter, this shall be viewed as a clean and legal blow*."_ Same with breaking fingers, as long as you're _"grabbing the majority of fingers/toes at once"._
@@markostojanovic6973 I don't think I missed your point. I agree that there good techniques outside of MMA. I'm just tired of all the straw man arguments such as the ones you presented. And I don't think Rokas is as narrow minded as you make him out to be. I acknowledge all of the positive things you said too, but I'm trying to shatter misconceptions that you and others perpetuate.
@@Freejason33 im not here to fight or argue for sure and my written language is not good enough for the conversation on this topic (and i anyway dont know to clearly wrtite what i can say in spoken language, i just suck at it). i didnt want to say 'oh the stuff is deadly ant thats why its not there' or 'there are secret techniques that only a few know', thats bullsh*t, to be clear (and im talking about all martial arts). my point was that rules OFTEN do prohibit some techniques, as you have corrected me already on some. but by correcting me you have just confirmed my point (which wasnt put up well, and thus i have no option then to say im was wrong), if you re read what you posted youll see there are some 'ifs' there (e.g. breaking fingers). would you say breaking one finger is not effective? its allowed to break all but not one. (please just dont jump on this as a wild dog, its and example, im sure you can take in the broader picture). another point i can make, and Rokas made the same one a few weeks ago in his judo interview, is about what will happen with the newly forbidden technique in the competition? will in 10 years people say its not effective, and in that interview it was proven it is effective. we all, who have been in a competitive sport know that will fall out of favor and it will not be trained/practiced in many clubs/dojos. To try and reformulate my point, there are martial arts that you do for yourself, there is a competitive sport with one set of (mostly saftey) rules, there is a street fight (no rules at all) but as it finishes that turns into self defense which has the most restrictive rule set (law). also, im not bashing competitive sports, they can be fun, they can for sure show some things working and some call out for what they are, but they are not a prove all thing. Also, i am full on for pressure testing stuff, just lets be honest that some things need more practice and safety concerns then others. some are low risk some are high risk... there is a lot to take in account, thats it. hope i was a bit more clear. and as said, i dont want to fight over it and im sorry if it come through like that
@@MartialArtsJourney It was a hard fight and your opponent was good. I understand you are disappointed, but you did a good job and even stepping into the ring is impressive. I was there to support my brother cause it was his first fight, and I was very proud of him.
I have used the front kick grab and sweep before in a resistant opponent situation. The goal is to also move in to the thigh because that is less snappy so it slows the kick down. And if you miss the grab, you can then strike. It is not a wasted movement.
Great breakdown. Segal's a goofball who knows a few legitimate techniques, but didn't show anything all that special or advanced. Also, another reason to turn the fist even more is to raise the shoulder to protect the jaw. When Segal was demonstrating the two punches later, the first "weaker" strike was more shallow. The second pushed more through the opponent.
Exactly. Love how the karate expert didn't fold like Seagal expected him to. That was hilarious. It's almost as if Seagal pooped his pants at that moment.
The stupid thing is that people think every technique is meant to be practical in every situation. Obviously, every technique is designed with a particular situation in mind. First you master those basics, then you combine as necessary for every situation. Self-defense is supposed to be teachable to everyone, even your grandma. Would you want your grandma to be throwing punches into her shoulder like a boxer? Obviously not.
Seagal's aggressive techniques seems to be meant to kill or break bones, which makes it hard to have an all-out sparing match, so you can't really know if the slow-mo stuff really works or not. In MMA you have rules, and people can go 100% with "low" risk of serious life injuries, thus figuring out if the techniques are practical. Would love to see Seagal spar with MMA rules (no poking of the eyes and shit).
On the knee punch: 1. The knee is slower than the foot. 2. This is a "stop-hit" as described by Bruce Lee. Timing is key. You are stuffing the kick. 3. You absolutely must train this and train your hands with makiwara and heavy bag. 4. You target the soft tissue immediately above the knee, not the knee itself. 5. Repeated hits will destroy the knee's effective function. This is a hard style karate technique. Does it work? Short answer is yes. I have used it myself, although I punch in a downward angle on the leg and don't rotate my body towards it the way he did. I also usually bounce in my footwork since my background is TKD. I have added Muay Thai and JKD techniques so my striking style is unorthodox. I don't know if his technique is better. It could be. He's quick. I couldn't do it the way he did in a real match. I have used the technique the way I described in real matches. Usually on slower kicks, "ranging" kicks, etc. If you don't keep your kick snappy, I'm gonna punish you for it.
Thank you for the video, liked your comments a lot. I have some things to point out as well, for instance when Steven tells that he preffers sliding vs "bouncing around" I think that when you are in a real fight situation, every attack can be the last one, you have to maintain the minimum amplitude of your mass movement, because if you bounce you can get caught in a position when you are a little offbalanced while been attacked. Imagine someone bouncing really high, he might be a little late with his counterattacks. The other thing is striking with a vertical fist. Again if you are boxing in the ring with gloves, it doesn't make much difference, though you may see many boxers who use vertical fist for the jabs, uppercuts and hooks, because of its more rigid structure. But when you fight someone with bare fists, first of all there is more chance of injuring your wrist, because very often your opponent can move forward or put an elbow up for example, or he can be heavier than you, so the structure of your body gets more important at than point. The other thing that when your fists are vertical, your elbows are in between you and your opponnent, than gives you more protection especially if your opponent decides to come closer and grab you, cause probably you wouldn't want to start wrestling on the street.
Vertical punches are used in boxing. It’s the only way to get through a double guard. Wing chun, jet Kune do, muy Thai, karate also use vertical punches.
So the issue about better connexion and alignment is that there is a different philosophy to the punch. With a vertical fist i am looking to connect my strike through my body to deliver force through coordination of the various muscle groups in my body, generating the force in reaction to the ground. The lower elbow is also good for containing lower hands. The vertical visit ensures it is the blade of the fist, the lower three larger knuckles, which makes contact, whilst having alignment through the wrist, which prevents a turning moment on contact, which could damage the wrist. This also protects the fingers. Striking with a horizontal fist tends to cause one to strike more with the fingers, unless the wrist is contorted. This increases the risk of breaking the fingers. Further more if the elbow is allowed to creep out, it loses its property of occupying the line. It can act as a hinge where power is dissipated. For countering a higher punch, this property might be useful, to disperse the strike, but then, I’d prefer a finger tip strike to a soft target, as it affords an addition finger’s length of range, which is safer.
I hope to see you speak and interact with Steven Seagal someday. I think your approach to sparring and fighting will actually open up a lot of people's eyes on the effectiveness of Steven Seagal's aikido. The big problem is if you reveal some truths, you might not be able to reveal them by his request. But, I have no doubt that he is a very formidable fighter. He looks like he has a lot of size and power. A punch by him would seriously hurt!
Tsuri Ashi (sliding foot) is not a forceful pressure that cause friction. It is the practice of maintaining contact with your feet, which is helpful for not tripping because you foot is not dropping onto items. It is very common in Judo. It also incorporate involves movement without jumping/bouncing and tries to maintain lateral movement without obvious vertical movement where you can be caught with no contact to the ground.
1. Manipulating Finger: It does work to some extent, even in Judo is forbidden grabbing finger like that and even pistol grip is forbidden. 2. Catch a leg from kicks: It does work too, in Silat there are many method of training to catch a kick and throw. 3. Kata is to learn techniques even Judo has Kata. If you want to know how to execute techniques ask Kata Practitioner. From Nage No Kata, Katame No kata, Kime no kata, Go Sen No Sen No Kata (Counter techniques).
Hey Rokas, another thing to consider about eye pokes is that they (along with groin kicks) are two illegal techniques in MMA that the referee will actually stop the fight and give a timeout. Hitting the back of the head doesn't cause the ref to stop the fight, neither does 12-6 elbows (although this rule is stupid). I always ask people who doubt the effectiveness of those techniques, "If they are so ineffective, why are they banned in competition?"
Trapping works where an opponent does not have sensitivity and has a tendency to fight against a pressure using strength against better structure. One method is to evade, but against correct pressure (hand lost thrust forward/ receive what comes in, send away what leaves) it is not always easy. In terms of the footwork sliding, vs bouncing on feet to react/force through knees etc. in traditional arts, forms are played with correct detail (the same details lost in “mc Dojos”) the correct detail builds structure, positioning etc, amongst other things, but it also increases body health and durability in a manner which does not injure the practitioner. Through playing many forms, this can then be transitioned into movement. If I am bouncing, I have to wait for my feet to be in the correct position before before I can push off the ground. If I slide my feet, I am already in the correct position to react as my feet already have good ground contact, I’m also focused on my balance, such that I do not have to adjust balance, take weight off a foot, or move it in a substantial way in order to react with it. In this way the reaction is in fact faster. It also requires less energy, and so is less tiring. I.e. better energy management. In terms of tripping over objects, the feet are sensory, I’m learning to feel my surroundings with the feet, to ensure solid footing, if I’m bouncing around on uneven ground, I might put my foot down on a rock, or off a kerb, etc, in doing so twist an ankle or throw a knee.
Don`t hit the leg but you can make a double forearm or knifehand block. If you conditioned and trained properly that can hurt even fast roundhouse kicks. I have practiced that a lot in sparring and expirienced it myself over years of training in taekwondo.
Again, I really enjoyed your breakdown. I will say that your analysis is overly generous in my opinion, though it's intelligent and learned. Everything Seagal says is either obvious, in general use in several martial arts, or just complete BS. Some of it is actually dangerous, and not to your opponent. I once watched another karate black belt use a Gedan-barai to block a kick and accidentally punch the other guy's leg. He broke several bones in his hand and could not use it for over half a year. As an aside, I tend to also disagree with the traditional view on teaching philosophy in martial arts content. I am uncomfortable doing so with my students as I don't know that I am necessarily a better person than they are nor that my philosophy should be universal. I'm not sure that anyone can say that, least of all Steven Seagal. I have studied several eastern philosophies, as well as western ones, and I see flaws in all of them. I tend to think that example is a better teacher than anything else you might say. I would say that you are, in fact, living that very same belief, showing by your example more than you do with words.
I think that you’re right about the philosophy thing to a point, but I think a teacher should always encourage students to be respectful to each other and people, not to use violence unless essential and non avoidable, a basic philosophy but a philosophy all the same. I’ve always believed Seagal could do some decent damage, especially when younger, he’s big heavy and has very fast hands and knows where to strike. I don’t believe he’d be much use in an MMA or even kickboxing match, but in a confrontation I’d say he could definitely be able to do damage with his striking, much less likely with the locks though.
I like that you brought up the irrelevance of personality & politics. Someone can be a great fighter and have views you disagree with or be an asshole or anything like that or they can be the best person who agrees with you on everything but be bad at fighting. Separating a person’s skill from their “quality” as a human being over all is important in analyses like these. I can definitely see growth in your videos so far. You went from “Aikido #1” to seeing its flaws but then being a little bit blinded by that feeling of betrayal by the martial art that you devoted your youth to, a kind of immediate dismissal of anything that reminded you even vaguely of Aikido, and now you’ve arrived at a very objective place. You judge martial arts for what they are, you openly discuss the flaws of a martial art (of which Aikido has MANY) but don’t ignore the good things you can find in an art, even if they are few and far between. Love to see it.
Finger attacks work on the street because often people grab on the street. You are unlikely to effectively defend a punch with a finger technique. But if someone grabs you, finger techniques work well.
A lot of fighters do use the vertical punch depending on the range usually. Dempsey of course taught this, but he had a variety of punches as well. Ali threw triples of up, over, and in. Knuckles down, twisting, and vertical.
Seagal is getting the vertical punch from Wing Chun. When using it, you're not hitting the person with shoulder power, you're hitting with your whole body weight. It's harder than a jab, but just as fast. It's the only punch I've ever needed.
A boxing coach told that turning the fist was started after using gloves became common as it was easy to cut the face with bare knuckles but not so with gloves, so the turn was added to tear the skin, and that there is no noticeable difference in power. Before gloves were used, vertical punching was used which you can see in contemporary drawings, and vertical punching is actually safer for bare knuckles.
The part about Kata. Kata/Forms are important. In essence they are the container and blueprint of your best “zero pressure” manifestation of the art. But you need to understand the details, and you need this through practical application. Your forms should provide a virtuous feedback cycle in conjunction with practical drilling. I play more form, I practically drill, it doesn’t work. I adjust my detail, I play my form with this new detail, it works. Now I work cs a new partner, it no longer works, what detail or what application is wrong? Forms teach me to examine the little details. They embed those little details into me, so they are part of my, and when I need them they come out. They provide health, they provide power, they provide technique. They enable me to programme my body with appropriate tools, which I can then apply during practical application. But you need both. My SiTaiGung has always said to me: “most people think forms are about relaxation, but they are not, they are about power… relaxation comes from getting hit a lot”. I get hit, I get used to being hit, I relax, and then my best kung fu can come out. But forms give power.
What Jesse did is let the old guy play his usual role. He not only didn't confront him but also assisted him as if he didn't know the old guy is full of BS. Everybody in comments was like "what a nice guy i have to reevaluate what i think about him" , yeah nice guy until you assist him in his acting. All those show off moments and talking about how dangerous he is, secret techniques and how he is better than anybody else is just the good(bad) old Steven we know from other videos. In this video you really politely hinted that most things he showed is probably work only in this training slow-mo environment.
when it comes to striking with eye pokes (not grappling purely standing striking) they can work. BUT I think Icy mike is right on the money that you need to be able to fight anyway cos if you can't land your hand in someone's face when they're attacking you then it's not gonna work. The eyes are also very small targets but you do get some leeway cos the sockets are might help you slide in sometimes. Alternatively, if you have the reach advantage u can jon jones them and have your fingers out for them to run onto. My issue is that some ppl exclusively teach that stuff as "the only thing you need, 100% fight ending etc" and then that's all u have. It's fine to train eye pokes as long as you're training to fight in general aswell.
Also the way he shows that vertical punch he sacrifices a lot of reach by not fully extending his arm. Not to mention that he leans forward a lot,which we could argue is just for the demonstration,but at the same time this way the power behind the punch is not really measurable. 'Cause by leaning he puts more weight into the punch,which should be done by transfering the weight between legs and not by leaning as leaning leaves you open to the counterpunches. NOT to mention that by punching this way aside from losing reach he can't cover himself properly with the shoulder of his punching hand,which combined with the lack of reach can cause even more problems. Especially combined with his approach of "not moving to much" as it negates the head movement (as you mentioned,it's easier to avoid punches if you move a lot),so he doesn't even have that in his line of defense
The problem of applying Aikido techniques in fight situation is solved by the Filipinos in the technique called entrada. For example: Setting up the Kotegaeshi. Countering a jab or a cross with split intry (crossada intry in Filipino Martial Arts version). When the counter lands cleanly it separates the opponents head to its limbs due to the impact and with that it buys time to perform the Kotegaeshi to the opponents punching hand.
Hi. Years back when doing jiu jitsu and aikido in my 20s in my "youthful wisdom" i loved aikido. and it made my jiu jitsu better with the superior movement and (far) better understanding of locks. yet I decided it "doesn't work in reality". yet i stayed training. there was something i needed to understand. Now 2 decades of training more i realised that i just did not understand what the reality OF aikido was. Techniques are irrelevant. What is important is what you develop internally in the body that goes way beyond strength and power as most youngsters understand it. Like puppies need to play fight in order to become a grown up dog. The harmony in aikido is the harmony within yourself. your stance, balance of forces (6 directions), breath, awareness etc. The harmony with an opponent (musubi) comes from that. As does striking/entering (irimi) and deflecting/evading (tenkan) through rotation around the spine. Then that up and downward force balance with relaxed 'heaviness' (tenchi and otoshi). The shoulders and arms to be completely relaxed like a rope, yet can become hard like a jo strike (ie karate strike) in an instant. This is what aikido is really all about. not putting on gloves in a ring and sparring. Take off the gloves and the rules and that is all done. Only in getting all of these things together can you really even begin to understand the aikido that Ueshiba taught. His legendary power came from full mastery of these elements. Not in applying specific techniques. No time for that in real combat.
Great commentary. It's interesting that in Isshinryu we slide the feet. We also use a vertical punch. I don't think it's claimed to be more powerful, more that it's a shorter, quicker punch straight to the solar plexus. The sliding the feet thing is also often explained in terms of NOT being in a dojo, meaning if there is litter on the ground you can brush it aside. If it's dark or you're on uneven ground you won't trip, etc.
You are right. We have to separate who Steven seagal is and what he says. Despite how much of a controversial figure he is. He might have 1 or two good points. Perhaps presure testing his claims maybe?
@@alexandrealves2877 He also says hes an ex navy seal and an ex CIA operative. All things that ACTUAL seals and CIA agents have called him out for. He is a known liar. There are NO records of his fighting. No one has ever confirmed his stories of fighting. In fact he told a story about fighting off Yakuza at his dojo in Japan, a story that his ex father in law, the actual owner of the dojo has called a lie. You are repeating a story with no evidence.
@@binnieb173 No... You think I'm talking about stories I've heard, but that's not it. I TRAINED with Seagal Sensei's first student, Haruo Matsuoka Sensei. And by the student you can know if the master is genuine. Seagal Sensei was a direct disciple of Tohei Sensei and Abe Sensei, he trained seriously there in Japan and at a time when Aikido was being tested by other martial artists. He inherited the Dojo when his father-in-law passed away, so there's no way his father-in-law could have said anything after that.
So I have noticed something in most martial arts review videos, Rokas. It seems like most people judge how an style works compared to other style, but actually no style was developed to counter any of the styles it is compared with. Let me clarify, some styles try to take advantage of natural reactions that 99% of people would have in certain situations, but that no trained fighter would have (such as closing the eyes or look away). I think the same applies to the kick defense techniques here. A Thai boxer would probably have a set of skills and a range of resources 99% of people do not. PD: vertical fists are the norm in barelnuckle boxing. They were only changed to horizontal fists when the boxing glove and hand wraps were introduced. VF are safer for your hand.
Good video. One point. Boxers do use a vertical punch. But more to the point on it. When I teach Yes you are obviously losing power power with a vertical punch over a straight punch. But wbut one of the things II like to point out is the difference between is the difference between causing as much damage as possible versus doing enough dmg. Example. "Fake numbers " Straight 250lbs of force. Vertical 150lbs. But does that matter when it takes 50lbs to break the board. This is expressed alot in bare knuckle boxing with upper cuts
Great video, Rokas, I think you made some excellent points. But please try to resort less to jumps cuts while you're talking. I understand it's for economy of speech, but it's becoming distracting.
In a professional fight both parties are capable trained and ready for the fight expecting an attack. And even a professional fighter can be caught off guard in real life. Martial Arts is about surprise, deception and misdirection. All styles begin with no resistance and as you build skills you increase speed or resistance. Saying "that doesn't work in a professional fight" is a pretty specific and smug statement.
Check out the original video on Jesse Enkamp's channel here: ua-cam.com/video/sT1hA5HDhjs/v-deo.html
Kata is more about learning technique, the most important thing about kata is about figuring out a bunkai, an application to the techniques
Vertical punches were used in boxing. Bare-knuckle boxers were using Vertical punches for years, that's why it is so common in traditional martial arts. It protects your hand because it is structurally more sound. Also, the general fact is straight punches don't really knock a lot of people out, curved punches are far more likely to do that.
only reason i come across your videos is Jesse Enkamp , strive to be more like him, it might make you a proper martial arts praticioner
Please Rokas, do a react about this video and this master.
ua-cam.com/video/VDXzlq_0W2I/v-deo.html
"Professional Wrestlers" do the Eye Gouge I've never seen that move end a fight"!🤣😂
i am a Silat practitioner, and in silat we practice to move without "bouncing around" like in karate or TKD, its still a very effective way to move
And yes we do spar a lot in south east asia, unlike the silat school in US and Europe
@le batonas yea i would agree, but here im just saying that you dont have to "keep moving" or "constantly jumping" like what rokas said in order to respond to enemy strikes. In fact we practice a lot of takedowns and throw from that kind of stance
(I mentioned Karate and TKD just because of the footage he show earlier)
@le batonas bruh....you don't get my point dont you 😂 cmon im talking about rokas statement, not TKD
@@robbyakbarsyah I don’t think Rokas claimed that was the only effective strategy. Just that that’s why they do it. Which is true. Thai fighters also don’t bounce that much and are very square. No one has ever questioned if they can fight.
Be adviced when you say "Karate" you actually mean Sport Karate Kumite. It's quite different from the traditional art.
@le batonas i don't understand about how my comment has anything to do with catching a kick, but i am agree with the rest of it
Nearly everything Seagal sensei taught Jesse & Oliver is common to Okinawan Kara te Ryu.
I've seen Shinjo Kiyohide use the same punch to the leg.
The vertical punch with elbow down, is common to Okinawan iishin ryu Kara te, Japanese Shorinji Kempo, Wing Tsun, English Bareknuckle boxings, Krav Maga Global and other venerated Bareknuckle fighting arts.
Jack Dempsey fought Bareknuckle and gloved boxing , was world heavy weight champ, and he taught to punch with same vertical punch for self defense. . .And Jack Dempsey knocked out two armed car jackers whom tried to kidnap him when he was in his 70s.
The same spear kick Seagal taught Machida and Silva is taught in Uechi Ryu Kara te.
The spear finger strikes to the neck, also in Okinawa Ryu Karat te.
Every strike, kick and foot pin is taught in Okinawan Kara te ryu: Goju, Uechi, Shorinryu.
So literally nothing Seagal sensei taught is dubious. As for sparring, he's 71 years old with bad knees.
When you're 71 you'll be extremely fortunate to be able to still move around like Seagal sensei.
Very well said and expounded upon. 👊👊✊✊👏👏👌👌
boxers do use a vertical punch. Dempsy talks about it in his book. He explains that is why you need your elbows down. In the jab for example, you have a vertical punch where the elbows are down, and it isn't till the end where the shoulder is twisted, to protect the chin and get a bit more range.
Ive got Dempseys book in my permanent collection
I scrolled to see, because I expected someone to mention this - whether through Dempsey or not. It's common in boxing to rotate your wrist into many punches, but *not* all of them, both horizontal and vertical fists have their uses, and vertical punching was often used in old-fashioned bare knuckle boxing to slip through a gap in a person's guard (or break it open more easily with gloves when the gap's too narrow to fit but wide enough that you can use the vertical punch like a wedge)
In reference to the vertical punch, this was the type of punch that was predominant with old bare-knuckle pugilists, mainly because it's a safer option. People take for granted that you strike with gloves (which are basically giant cushions on your hands) so you can take risks by striking horizontally. Bare-knuckle, that has more power but is more likely to result in a boxer's fracture. Verticle punches also useful for going pass a person's guard because the gloves aren't big, people in MMA are used to blocking how boxers do but this is with the principle that you're wearing big gloves, so the punch can slide through the opponent's guard.
In reference to MMA, the reason why MMA fighters don't use it is because their striking is taught using modern boxing techniques, so they're going with what they've been taught. I assure you that if the old style of pugilism was used, it would be more suited to much smaller gloves and therefore MMA.
So it's true that a horizontal screw fist makes for a stronger punch, but you don't always want a stronger punch. Taking aside jabs, modern boxers always do the strongest punch possible because their hands are so well protected, whereas bare knuckle boxers used their punches more tactically. Perhaps vertical punches are better for wearing someone down when your knuckles might get damaged by a long fight, whereas a horizontal punch is better for knocking someone out in the exact moment when you are sure you can hit their jaw and not their skull? That also changes the kind of stance appropriate, which is why the stances were so different in bare knuckle boxing.
Bas Rutten was doing Palm Strike in his bare-knucle mma fights... i am surprised no one mentions that
@@vonb2792 Everyone in pancrase was using palm strikes because closed fist punches weren't allowed, as it was based on pro wrestling rules
This bit makes no sense to me: “ you're wearing big gloves, so the punch can slide through the opponent's guard.”. Surely you could more easily slide past the guard with smaller hands, not bigger.
@@abj136 He means that the gloves are so big horizontally that when you turn them sideways you can get through. I think.
I struggle to see what is unique on what Seagal is showing here.
The front snap kick (mae geri keage) is a well know karate technique.
The vertical punch is know in Karate as Tate Ken. On Jesse’s own website he as an article about this technique from about 12 years ago.
The hand/finger grappling techniques are seen in Karate styles as well, mainly in self defence combinations, but also in some arranged sparing combinations.
agree 100%
For me the most interesting part is definitely the way Seagal always tries to trap the foot when he attacks.
One of my training partners makes it uncontiously when he gets to grab or lock any fingers or wrists. He says its something he learnt time ago and now he cant control it. As the one in the other side of the ecuation I can say its rather uncomfortable when trying to escape from a lock.
I had a sparring partner once who used to stand on my foot and then dig his toe in, it hurts but it's really difficult to pull your foot away
@@robertflux8011 some self defence techniques are actually superior to sport. Sport is good in other ways.
The Founder of Aikido, great master Ueshiba, always did this.
It's an Aikijujutsu technique, it took me years to develop the sense of distance to be able to do this. Now I do it without thinking and it's very useful.
@@robertflux8011 This is used in Okinawan Karate. This works when the attacker and defender are bare footed! On the street, most men wear shoes!
I've actually used "slide" footwork in the wild; Both on the job as a security guard, and during friendly sparring matches in the park. It actually helped me find the potholes and the bumps that could've tripped me up, or hurt me if I fell in certain places. For me, it's mostly an extra set of eyes when my actual eyes are fixed on a threat. But far from a mainstay.
I've also seen the punching into the round kick gag.....in a movie called "Karate Girl."
I was going to reply, but you beat me to it. The *entire* reason that sliding footwork exists in many traditional martial arts styles (not just Japanese ones, either), is specifically with the anticipation of being on uneven/broken ground. I remember as a young infantryman learning quickly that if you just stomp around, walking as if the ground would always 'be there", you're prone to finding holes, dips, and changes of elevation you didn't anticipate. If you learn to walk "differently", you start learning to find those uneven ground changes and retain your stability a lot better. Many ways to do that, depending on how fast you need to move (shuffle, walk, walk quickly, slow run, etc.). That most dojo people don't know this? Well, that's a time and distance issue... if students never question, and teachers don't teach, information gets lost.
One of the styles I practiced and taught for years was Thammavong Tuk Bando, the basic philosophy was narrowed down to punch the punch and kick the kick. This isn't necessarily verbatim it generally implied that if they are using fast techniques (jabs punches etc) you want to use something as fast to counter it with something that is meant to disable the offending body part. We didn't really have blocks because everything became a strike,
I think there is value in what seagal shows. It's a lot like how I learned to apply TaijiQuan.
The idea is that you collide against the opponent coming in, getting a better position, and try to end it right there, by intercepting, striking first and hard (cobrai kai is right).
I think this strategy can work in a random fight against one guy who doesn't really know what he's doing. But if the guy is a fighter who knows to manage distance and feints, it's gonna be problematic...But that would be problematic anyway...^^
What I think people keep missing a lot with this man is that he's not solely just an Aikido practicioner. He apparently knows judo among other martial arts, and have gone as far as to teach hand-to-hand and marksmanship while he was in law enforcement. What we have are a lot of videos of him during his public demos of Aikido so that's the only thing people seem to see and know. I recall him applying the knife hand thing using blades in a movie of his when he was younger. The action there was faster, and the effects were quite brutal, as the move did go for vital spots like he often mentions. He applies a lot of stuff to an extent even in his movies from what I can tell.
As for the "sliding" feet movement, that's actually more of a language barrier thing from Japanese to English. The context is "suberu you ni ashi o ugokasu" directly translated to meaning "move your feet as if you are sliding" which is the misconstrued and long time spread idea, but the actual intended meaning the Japanese imply here is to move swiftly and "smoothly" (smooth as in sube-sube or suberu). It's not some rule where you stick your feet to the ground and rub it off the asphalt. 😂 My Japanese teacher who is strict got mad at me for asking that to him.
When I did karate, we were taught a very different explanation for the "bouncing" kind of movement, *and* we were taught both that kind of movement and the smoother "sliding" type - except we were told to lift our feet slightly and slide just above the ground, not touching it. If you keep your feet close to the ground and glide smoothly, you stay at one level and don't bounce, and because your feet are closee to the ground while doing so, you can redirect, shift your weight from one foot to the other, and respond faster and easier than if you're lifting your feet more and moving in that bouncing kind of way. The advantage of doing the latter is that you're able to freely change the elevation of your attacks and strike high and low in less predictable ways with less telegraphing when you're changing the height of your attack, because the change in height is integrated with your movement and with direction changes so when you shift up it's unclear if you're doing so to drive a strike up from below, to raise into position to strike high, or simply to move to a new position in preparation for a hit. The reason for keeping our feet close to the ground but not in contact while sliding was the protection of knees and the ability to avoid catching your feet on unstable surfaces- just like you've mentioned. We were also directly told that "you can get away with this in the dojo" we were instructed not to do so because it would encourage poor form in situations where you can't trust the ground to be on your side in the same way.
I enjoyed this analysis, good luck on your second fight 😄🥊.
Thank you for sharing ☺️.
there was a part you didn't cover, I don't blame you, there was a lot of stuff that he showed to cover in this vid, where steven teaches them how to take someone into a finger lock, he tells them to take a standard boxing stance, with both hands in front of the face, and essentially teaches them that if someone's hands are relaxed, or open at any point, and their fingers are exposed, which admittedly can happen, it is actually possible using a quick up and down motion like a sword to quickly grab their fingers, and of course I was kind of skeptical of this, but I like to spar bare knuckle too, and I tried it, and honestly, I was able to pull it off a couple times, and my opponent even did it to me a couple times... it REALLY fucking hurts 😅
Sometimes you can roll a fist up. One hand on the wrist one holding the fingers clossed. Can go in different directions depending on how they resist. Up into the armpit is usually possible. Ti's painful. You can then usually do what you want with the arm for a second.
@@sameverest7860 I think I know what you are talking about and yikes, that sounds incredibly painful 😬
Cool dude you sure love birds then. I could teach a groin kick to you? It's very effective 👌 👍
@Sam Everest try it. I been in a lot of real fights and my hands hurt from hitting hard bone on a person with bear hands. So go try it. Then get back to me.
In kajukenbo, we have a technique that involves punching a kicking leg at the hip flexor. In training it looks decent enough
In sparring, I’ve seen more than one person get laid out by the kick rather than neutralizing it.
Thanks for sharing...I am curious about this one. I've stuffed kicks with my feet before but never using a fist...and never getting lucky and hitting a nerve.
Even if it works, the risk / reward seems very out of balance. I'd hate to miss and end up breaking my knuckles on their knee...
On turning the fist when you punch:
1. The "twisting of the fist" does not add power. Rotating the shoulder does. It's a subtle distinction but it shows up on a pressure plate. Basically the rotation needs to develop from the shoulder not the wrist. Most useful and powerful in the Western boxing right cross.
2. You can rotate your shoulder (in a different axis) in a vertical fist wing chun style punch. Power is not as much as a right cross, but still hits very hard.
3. With practice, the entire critical chain (foot, knee, hip, torso, shoulder, elbow) can be engaged in the vertical punch.
4. The hand / arm RETRACTS faster in the vertical orientation.
5. This allows faster combinations, strike chaining, and improved trapping which can lead to locks and takedowns.
6. It also keeps the elbows covering the ribs.
To be clear, a right cross hits 25-30% harder than the hardest vertical punch. But, it's less versatile.
Someone should mention that Steven seagal is 71 years old and still teaches and gets around pretty well. The power of practicing martial arts has on your health and longevity. Go sensei !
🤣🤣🤣 LOL !!! Is it because of the martial arts he became an overly inflated whale !? The dude can’t get out of a chair without a stunt double doing it for him! I know 81 year olds moving around much more nimbly and swiftly than Seagal does!
@@frontenac5083 how old are you ?
@@frontenac5083 you're a cornball and Seagal has a messed up back, Injury from late 90's and I'm sure you've never been as good of a martail artist as he was in his day
@@frontenac5083 That inflated whale could likely kill you if he wanted to. I don't think he has stunt doubles because of not being able to do stuff. It's just that he's pretty lazy or doesn't wanna show himself getting punched on film. There's only one time where he willingly gets punched on camera but this was way back in one of his first movies which kickstarted his popularity, therefor he wasn't known yet so he didn't care. He's 6'4 and a master in a martial art he's been practicing for 60 years. I don't think him being a little overweight is gonna stop him from kicking someone's ass if he needs to.
@@gagetaylor192 exactly.
my opinion is still the same, aikido was meant to be for law enforcement only (which is why takeda taught in police stations up and down japan), and as a police officer i have used the fingers and sankyo, it works because the person is not trying to fight you but push you away to avoid being detained. Aikido's main problem is that its taught in reverse to nearly all martial arts, normally you use strength to get speed and power, and much later (years) you begin to relax, but you make it work in the begining by strength.Aikido on the other hand encourages students to relax from day 1, so you never get to force techniques through strength, so you don't know reallyhow to make them work.
Sliding feet is deception. Move your feet as coming down from floating tanden.
I agree with you about kicking. He should show how to defend shrimp kick of Taido.
Your idea of Sankyo is based on Aikikai style. You should try Yohshinkan style Sankyo. It is so powerful that People with Aikikai usually hate it.
This video did a great job of giving a fair assessment... Neither writing off Segal's style completely nor taking his teaching as gospel. This UA-camr sems very knowledgeable and objective. Also, love the long suffering look he gives the camera at 11:49 when Segal pronounces "ka-ra-TE." Earned a sub right there and put a smile on my face.
You have a great attitude. Respectful, yet skeptical in a serious way.
It was really interesting to hear your opinion on the vertical vs horizontal fist.
Big thumbs up!
Dude, you need to Steven on the show to talk about Aikido!!!!!!! Who’s with me! 😃
All very good theories and applications here.
But as an old school Goju-Ryu practitioner, I was always taught from the Masters," learn your Katas and learn them well, forward and backwards. Your self-defense is in your Katas".
Now the way that you perform the katas is not necessarily how you will fight per say,
but all of your strikes, blocks, defensive and offensive moves are all in there.
That was the main reason the old Masters created them in the first place as to not forget secret techniques.
One must learn to analyze and dissect the movements and put them together so that they will work best for you.
Katas will always remain as the basic fundamentals for whatever your style is.
On the point of kata, it really depends how you interpret them and who is teaching it. A lot of karate instructors don't know the bunkai from kata and this is a point that Jesse Enkamp and Iain Abernethy had made. However kata is not meant to be used sequentially nor taken literally as it is showed on the surface. They present combative ideas and principles which are meant to be taken from and used individually as a tool in a free style manner. Anthony Vincio has got a video somewhere showcasing how he uses kata in a fight and I think he has demonstrated that with Jesse Enkamp.
I don’t think you can be a good fighter only learning kata. But you can’t really be a good fighter only hitting a heavy bag either.
Kata does similar things. Improves functional strength, coordination, balance, breath, and muscle memory. It’s no better or worse than shadow boxing. Just another tool to use.
Agreed but I think that's the point. You learn individual techniques and practice applying them before you put them into a solo routine. That's how you would be trained in judo, ShorinjiKempo, and many other Japanese or Japanese-influenced martial arts. I don't know why karate is backwards.
There are also plenty of old karate adepts who say that the emphasis on kata is a newer thing, and that in the old days, more effort was spent on basics, conditioning, and sparring. But there seems to be a lot of variation depending on the instructor/school.
@@Sir_Pants_Alot yes kata can help you with those things you mentioned...but most importantly they all lead up to the bunkai as well as the ashi sabaki and tai sabaki. Then once you got you some kata and kihon down then you transfer those techniques from them into kumite (sparring) in a freestyle manner. Kihon, kata and kumite are connected. Now of course there's two types of kumite, one is the competition style and the other is dojo style which is essentially freestyle. You can apply the tai sabaki and ashi sabaki from kihon, kata and kihon ippon kumite into freestyle kumite.
@@InGrindWeCrust2010 Well, modern karate has got it backwards but okinawan karate not so. However with the rise of MMA there are some karate schools that are looking at making their karate practical for self defense through re analyzing the bunkai. And some of them have got their youtube channel. Karate culture is one example, Andy Allen Applied shotokan is another, John Titchens, Don came and vince morris.
@@MrMattias87 What I'm referring to here is the order in which you learn things, not whether or not someone knows bunkai. I find Okinawan karate schools that I've come across still do it in that order. Kata first, application second. Matsumura Seibukan, Goju, Uechi, Shorin Ryu Kyudokan, Matsubayashi Ryu, on and on. I was surprised to find that a lot of Chinese martial arts in the USA have the same foible.
Since we're on the subject. There are plenty of Okinawan karate schools that have/had little idea about bunkai and admit as much. Plus, it's one thing to know it and another to practice it and pressure test it.
Sure, there are plenty of practitioners that work to apply practical bunkai. I do. They're just far from the majority and it's an odd phenomenon in karate to me.
in Muay boran there is a similar kind of technique to stop the kick with the arm but it doesn't attack the knee with a punch it attacks the front of the thigh a little higher up and the way I have been taught it is an open hand technique just to stop/block the kick and attack with something else (likely an elbow or knee at that range). but I guess you could punch it, dig the knuckles into the muscle of the thigh which could result in a "dead leg" or if you are feeling particularly nasty drive an elbow in if you are fast/close enough.
I have managed to pull this off in sparring maybe once or twice but I would rather just find another way to block or avoid altogether.
Another Muay technique similar to what is shown against the front kick is to step to the side and hook under the leg and this can be used as a take down or to dump them on their head... again this is a hooking motion though it does not start with an straight arm as that would waste time.
although if you stood still and used a straight arm or scooping motion to redirect the front kick you can have the opponent twist slightly leaving them open for a short amount of time while they regroup
in Korat the follow up would be the swing punch or to kick but if used in MMA you could use this opening to shoot a take down or a back take but against people with very snappy front kicks it takes a fair bit of timing
have managed this a fair bit in sparring through the years though so it is realistic enough
Yeah if Muaythai fighters can catch the kick that kick so fast and strong in time so The strike to the leg would be more possible due to Strike alway faster than catch or Grab and yes Elbow Block to The leg still slower than hit to the leg with striking.
so I started training mixed martial arts while I was in the military. I attended a training course on suspect apprehension. one of the instructors ( not primary ) was a black belt in aikido. ( at least that's how he was presented ). when he found out I had mixed martial arts experience he wanted to do a full speed scenario with me. ( at the time 3 months ). I obliged, after a few minutes he was frustrated and requested that we no longer start at a distance with each other but we start with my hand grabbing his shoulder.... wanting to be a good sport in the class I again agreed. when we started he quickly grabbed my finger twisted it and broke it the pain pretty much dropped me to my knees.... the problem was once I was on my knees and he had already broken my finger I shot a double leg and began punching the instructor as hard as I could from the ground until the course was separated and discussions had to be held. that s***** instructor is how I see Steven seagal in my head.
Steven Seagal hasn't, as far as I'm aware, severely injured someone for no reason.
Yup. He's known to be a piece of shit bully with stunt guys...
@@Selrisitai Steven Segal Hasn't, as far as I am aware, ever been in a fight.
@@biggumstevens1784 I'm not sure why you're telling me this, but yeah, I haven't seen anything about it either.
@@biggumstevens1784 no one said he had lol, but ok
I''ll come in on the vertical punch question as a Wing Chun practitioner. The way I was taught was elbow in, and though like any technique, takes time to master, but when you have, the power generation is absurd. I practised on a heavy sand filled bag for several years before I got all the movements involved to align perfectly. I still remember the day i got it right, as I broke the bag mount and the bag went flying, splitting when it landed. I see people saying that punch is crap, but have not mastered the punch. A lot of little nuances are required to be mastered for any technique, and the punch is one of them. That is why the ranking system exists. It shows a certain preficiency has been reached.
Any punch you don't know how to use correctly is a weak punch. Both vertical and horizontal fist punches can generate a lot of power (which is applied in slightly different ways) when performed with good technique. It's important not to judge either as bad if you really want as well-rounded a set of skills as you can get. Many boxers do use vertical punches, but as a situational option, not their only weapon, and usually not the primary one.
@@a-blivvy-yus I started out doing karate in the 70's, so pretty conversant with the horizontal punching as well. As you say, it's correct technique that provides the power.
As usual, you are distinguished in all the topics you present. Your channel is very distinguished and is an important and great reference for martial arts, especially for your important meetings with martial arts experts.
The vertical strike vs horisontal strike, it isn't only about aligning the punch to the shoulder, it is also aligning the punch to the rest of the body all the way down through the legs and to the ground.
In boxing, sometimes we actually tell beginners to keep their thumbs up when punching (i.e. throw vertical). This is because sometimes they throw themselves off balance in the direction opposite their punch- if they throw a straight right hand they throw their balance too far to their left side. By keeping their thumbs up when they punch they don't throw themselves off balance to the contralateral side. Also, they can retract the punch more quickly after throwing it if they keep their hand vertical. But yes, turning the hand over does generate more power and rolls the scapula over to give just a little more reach.
@@jx2794 badass explaining, bruh. Thanks. 🙏🙏
At 09:50 when you are talking about the eye poke and Sanyo move, this cuts to the heart of what many critics of Aikido keep saying.. some variant of “the technique might be effective but getting to use it is extremely hard” because grabbing a wrist or whatever is hard. This reveals an ignorance of what good aikido training is about. You don’t ever go in trying to grab someone’s wrist and apply the technique to them. In real self defence situations there’s so much adrenaline and chaos that you are operating on instinct so when done well the practice trains your instincts to move your body to the right distance, put yourself in the right position, move in the right way strike (atemi) so that your opponent(s) are off guard, off balance, off centre and not able to effectively resist because there’s little to nothing to resist. By the time they work it out it’s too late. They expect to land a punch or kick and the split second they realise it’s not gone the way they expected you’ve gotten their wrist or neck or whatever because you found yourself in the right place at the right time. I’ve experienced this first hand in a street fight 3v1, I had no time to plan anything. No tike to think about my tactical plan or whether I was going to go to use a karate or Muay Thai or Aikido technique or chase someone’s wrist or elbow. It was just years of good training that meant when I reacted I was in the right place relative to them, the opportunities arose they were taken. THAT is the purpose of good aikido training, not learning ‘cool takedowns’ that you try and apply TO someone. If that’s the level of your mentality then of course it will never ‘work’.
The vertical punch also delivers a ton more power in much shorter space then the horizontal punch. The vertical punch is a lot closer to your center and core , so your weight distribution when generated through the legs is a hell of a lot more concentrated . This strike puts people on their asses when in proper proportion ..
The punch to the leg does work. I have done it before, but I am not going on a limb and say I will do it all the time, its a very specific point on the leg, so punching such a small point at that amount of mass moving at that speed creates a very small window of opportunity to execute effecitvely.
A very high level of skill and accuracy is needed for this technique to work.
Slidding feet in a field actuslly is a great way to avoid stepping on something thst hurts you, have in mind samurais didnt have modern combat boots, they actually had caltrops, they would just throw them on the ground as a way to slow the enemy army
They also had guns.
About the "Knuckle Conditioning" and the "Top Fighters" you know: Yes, most of the top fighters today are in "gloved combat sports". But the question is: How much did the development of "Boxing Gloves" influence all combat sports and even so called "traditional martial arts"?
See, Boxing had a "bare knuckle past". But most of the punching techniques (also the defense) of modern Boxing are build around wearing wraps and gloves, while it is really hard to reconstruct how Boxers before the "glove era" punched technically and what targets they really aimed for.
As far as I know, the first "Kickboxing Combat Sport", french Savate, had also only started to hit with a closed fist when it started to get from dirty streetfighting method with slaps and kicks to "light contact sport for ladies and gentlemen" in fencing clubs, adapting the the gloves from boxing
In Muay Thai the same problem, because what we know now as "Muay Thai", is mostly developed by the time, when it started as a gloved sport, inspired by cultural exchange with western boxing in the early 20th century.
In Karate I found also no real historical proof, that the punches with closed fists were really meant to hit the harder parts, like the skull, in the original okinawan fighting methods. It is totally possible, that the typical thrusting punches of the "Te"-systems were originally meant for hitting the body, while strikes with elbows, forearms, "Tetsui" (Hammerfist) and "Uraken" (Backfist) were more to hit the head and neck.
The height of the traditional karate punch and historical pictures of the height of makiwara training is a bit low for training punches to the head, isn't it?
You are basically correct. Makiwara training was to condition the hands for maximum durability in repeated striking, but the most frequent targets were soft tissue and ribs. That said, palm strikes, finger rakes, and gouges to the head and face were common, as were open hand strikes to the neck.
BTW real Karate, Wing Chung, Punantukan and many other systems of self defense have hand trapping. It’s just a lost part of martial arts. When people don’t know how to apply technique, they usually omit them. But that doesn’t mean they don’t work
Well said !
Knuckle conditioning has definitely helped me tremendously
Please meet Hanshi Patrick McCarthy. He can help with historical context that can help you put the piece’s together. Also Kaze no RYU on UA-cam. From their Aikijujutsu video’s you can get a perspective of where senseis Aikido originates. Remember, the average punch to an eye usually leads to a black eye. The average poke to the eye usually leads to the lose of the eye. There is a difference between self defense and martial arts sport. Both are effective but seek different outcome’s.
i mean, obviously he isnt able to do any kind of professional fighting. guy is now 70 years old and runs with solid overweight.
also, professional fighting is diffrent, training is diffrent. a self defence scenario last maybe 10 seconds (not if two idiots realy wanna fight each other on the streets, i dont call that "self defence scenario").
my idea is: create a scenario where you get attacked by an unknown skrike, kick or whatever. maybe also unknown direction, from one or two persons. defend, end the threat and get out fast as possible (maybe include a girlfriend or whatever). wich technique works here in those situations are useful, the rest is just the "art".
Good stuff Rokas. Boxing coaches often teach their fighters to turn their hand all the way over at the end of its travel, past the horizontal, as this arm position protects the chin behind the shoulder at full extension.
For example ua-cam.com/video/DmXyuo6fhGw/v-deo.html
I guess these are basically techniques that need to be repeated over and over until you can complete them correctly in seconds. I am learning some hapkido and of course we are slow, working on every detail, but the teacher can do it in seconds, and also teaches us the technique plus how to "finish it off" once performed. Also, the smallest single mistake renders the technique useless as it may not have the effect intended or leave you defenseless.
I dont know much about aikido, but I agree that most demonstrations are lacking.
Thank you for breaking the video down for us! Love your channel 😊😊
Have you seen your teacher/ does your teacher actually spar or fight though? My master is a multi time champion. There is video of his fights, and he goes out (even at his age now) and will actively spar with other young black belts. He does not teach any kind of move that needs to be perfectly performed with no small mistakes as types of moves will get you in trouble. Combat is fast and sloppy.
The question you should be asking is do these moves only ever work in a controlled demo where the teacher knows what move is coming and the striker just stands there while the move is happening? Does your teacher fight students ever? If yes, then great. If no, that's also fine... but at least understand that these are weaknesses in your self defense.
@@binnieb173 Yes, he does. He also is a TKD black belt and knows kickboxing. Look into hapkido, there should be some videos online where the techniques can be seen and judge yourself.
@@thetrickster3616 I don't know your teacher. I am just giving advice. It is possible you are learning great techniques from a gifted instructor.
In which case great, I am very happy to hear that.
I have never seen punching a kick as a viable move personally. If it was, as the video states, it would probably be in the UFC.
@@binnieb173 no, we are definitely not being taught how to stop kicks with a punch, we are learning useful and quick stuff to be able to defend ourselves and runaway; the kind of moves that anyone who does not have a martial arts background can perform relatively easily. Ocasionally, he does teach us some more complicated hapkido moves because we ask him to; if you check hapkido videos you'll see those techniques are very precise and require much knowlesge about the body's pressure points and so on, definitely not an easy martial art to learn or practice imho.
From what I've heard, the striking from Hapkido is generally legitimate, the throws not so much, better than Aikido but still mostly compliant single attack into wrist control and breakfall.
Seagal's "philosophy" on what he calls "fighting" is 100% dependant on the hope and/or blind assumption that your opponent only throws one attempted attack towards you which apparently in turn, and according to him,the only one to think this in the entire MA world, automatically allows his aikido method instant entry into your defense and take you down successfully every time no matter what style.....It also professes a successfull one shot offense(strike/grab or lunge) that apparently transitions into a totally flawless and unfoiled "aikido" throw that sends the attacker into the "shadow realm".Neither of those "philosophies"are based in any kind of reality other than dojo games and i don't care who's selling that line of garbage.It'a a load of fantasy wannabe samurai bullshit.Actual fighting is never,NEVER a one/two exchange where the invincible aikidoka always walks away victorious being untouchable.It's a total idiotic,misleading,untruthfull,fantasygame play method of thinking.If people knew the actual truth about Seagal they'd probably slap themselves out of shear embarassement for fanboying him...Then again only inexperienced cheetos fingered fanboys are usually the only ones to get but hurt by the facts about their paper warrior movie star blowhard so what do they know anyway...lol...✌
I would agree with you
Up until the point you tried hard coming up with words to roast him with
@@amberharmsen2497 Wasn't hard at all
Approached With honesty and the right heart, Sparring is the greatest way to know yourself.... the greatest psychotherapy of my experience
I love your critique, some very grounded skepticism on the techniques used. Actually, it is very much appreciated as I agree with you ... the question is ... would you go up against Segal, and be able to use all this analysis? What would be your alternative to these techniques? My take is that what is being demonstrated here are techniques. It's difficult to execute any technique in a combat situation - unless they don't see it coming or if you are well trained for a long, long while. In any altercation, regardless of what style or skill level, if you don't see it coming and you get hit right - it's all over! I am enjoying your channel and appreciate it very much - looking forward to where you go on your martial arts journey!
@@gi7685 at one point while in Romania a bunch of random dudes decided to just beat the guy up. Which they did. A lot of fun was being made surrounding the moment.
@@gi7685 Don't say nonsense!
How do you think he received the seventh dan from the Masters of Japan? How many times did he need to be beaten to receive this degree??
I trained directly with Steven Seagal sensei's oldest student, he is very good!
For you to know if a Master is genuine, you need to analyze his students.
Matsuoka Sensei, the student of Seagal Sensei, is a martial artist beyond all doubt.
That Rokas doesn't know anything about fight.
@@alexandrealves2877 No black belt in the world proves you can fight. Fighting proves you can fight.
Funny how such a “warrior” that spent a career on camera has never been recorded sparring with anyone. Hell even when he’s in a movie any time his character needs to take a hit he insists a stunt double does it.
@@Sir_Pants_Alot You are confused.
Inside Japan things are not like in your country. AIKIKAI doesn't deliver seventh Dan to those who don't know how to fight, things are pretty serious in the country of the rising sun.
Seagal wasn't an actor until one guy was impressed when he saw him teaching and took him to Hollywood.
I don't live off movies, I have 40 years on the mat and I was the best in Brazil, I trained directly with the most advanced student of Seagal sensei and by the disciple you know the master.
Rokas is lost talking nonsense.
@@Sir_Pants_Alot I have a degree in several martial arts, I was Brazilian Judo champion, BJJ state champion within Brazil, I trained boxing, capoeira, TKD... Seagal Sensei's Aikido comes from renowned masters from Japan, he studied with Abe Sensei, with Tohei Sensei, there's no way to argue about these masters. They are legends in Japan.
7:50 The principle is more about energy, chain of motion, etc. I agree with you that it seems more practical to treat your first like an object on the end of a whip or lever, but I think once you're already in close and past the sort of sniff-each-other-out range, you want your body behind your punches as much as possible. Maybe a good idea would be to develop a striking technique where your strike ends up vertical but you still work in rotational force and create the curved whip motion too.
Sweet, we get a second breakdown of the techniques to see if they work. Thanks for this, Rokas
I got a really nice knockdown in a kickboxing fight by throwing a vertical fist jab through his guard, then pulling his left hand down as I brought my hand back and landing a right. I've found this type of technique works best with a vertical fist, even with mma gloves. It just puts your arm in better position for hooking your opponent's arm.
And Savate use Vertical Punch as Basic in Classic day and The fight Base on Fencing Strike.
Watch how pacquiao punch to break the guard. He punches vertically, not horizontally.
...big difference between sports fighting arts (in a ring) and self-defense fighting arts (or the stuff you run into as a bouncer or law officer).
Oyo Henka! Extremely difficult but possible. A student retracted his hard, fast right cross at Saotome Mitsugi and Saotome Sensei put him down no problem. And Saotome Sensei is an old man. When he was younger, his Randori against guys who were actually coming hard at him is impressive. Oyo Henka is the Aikido discipline of learning how to deal with resistance and sudden changes of direction and force. Very difficult, but possible. Good wrestlers practice Oyo Henka more than Aikido guys even though Oyo Henka is a part of the curriculum in some Aikido schools.
In the end, I blame the lack of intense sparring in most Aikido dojos, but in the past, Ueshiba first taught his disciples deadly techniques so they could see how Aikido stops short of maiming or killing someone, or it continues to move when at previous points in the technique it would destroy someone. Then he would ask his disciples to go all-out so they could learn how Aikido can truly work. Aikido is the utmost highest form of fighting and it should be learned LAST, after you've learned other hard styles first.
One MUST take Aikido's metaphysical principles seriously or it's never going to reach combat level. The ways of kokyu (breathing arts), ki, and Zen steadiness of one's nerves in the face of extreme threats. So difficult. But...possible!
Nicely done 👍 If possible would be nice to see another Breakdown of both Parts. With Jesse and you together. 😀
i have been following your channel for a long time. i really do appreciate your whole journey, from being mad and quitting over discovering new ways and doing what you do now. and honestly, i do admire you for your honesty and how you exposed your journey and feelings to all of us. and as you can sense it, there is a 'but' coming... lately, imho, you have fallen to the trap of 'if it works it will be in mma'. i ask you to remember that mma is a sport, and sport has rules. i can understand what you want to say but claiming that 'if its not in mma it doesnt work' is, honestly, stupid. im not defending mr segal, im not saying you are not correct on the way ukes hold up and wait, what i want to say is that there is a difference between sports and ideas in MA. at the end of the day, a punch in the head is a punch in the head, if it works great, if it is allowed in sport even better. but that doesnt mean something 'will not work since its not in mma', example: a karate shuto (sword hand?) in the neck i know i wouldnt like to get one in my neck and its NOT ALLOWED in mma, same as breaking someones fingers (not easy to do but it would help you win a fight). I hope you see my point and dont take it to personally :) Keep up the good work
Aikido is way inferior to MMA. That's a fact. Get over it.
Sure, the notion "if it works it will be in mma" is extreme. But so is the "pfft, sports have rules" dismissal. Biggest issue is you guys not understanding the ruleset. A knifehand to the neck IS legal. The unified rules state: _"No directed throat strikes are allowed. A directed attack would include a fighter pulling his opponents head in a way to open the neck area for a striking attack. *If during stand-up action of a fight a strike is thrown and the strike lands in the throat area of the fighter, this shall be viewed as a clean and legal blow*."_
Same with breaking fingers, as long as you're _"grabbing the majority of fingers/toes at once"._
@@Freejason33 thank you for the clarification, i will confirm i was wrong with my examples, but then again you missed the point
@@markostojanovic6973 I don't think I missed your point. I agree that there good techniques outside of MMA. I'm just tired of all the straw man arguments such as the ones you presented. And I don't think Rokas is as narrow minded as you make him out to be. I acknowledge all of the positive things you said too, but I'm trying to shatter misconceptions that you and others perpetuate.
@@Freejason33 im not here to fight or argue for sure and my written language is not good enough for the conversation on this topic (and i anyway dont know to clearly wrtite what i can say in spoken language, i just suck at it). i didnt want to say 'oh the stuff is deadly ant thats why its not there' or 'there are secret techniques that only a few know', thats bullsh*t, to be clear (and im talking about all martial arts). my point was that rules OFTEN do prohibit some techniques, as you have corrected me already on some. but by correcting me you have just confirmed my point (which wasnt put up well, and thus i have no option then to say im was wrong), if you re read what you posted youll see there are some 'ifs' there (e.g. breaking fingers). would you say breaking one finger is not effective? its allowed to break all but not one. (please just dont jump on this as a wild dog, its and example, im sure you can take in the broader picture). another point i can make, and Rokas made the same one a few weeks ago in his judo interview, is about what will happen with the newly forbidden technique in the competition? will in 10 years people say its not effective, and in that interview it was proven it is effective. we all, who have been in a competitive sport know that will fall out of favor and it will not be trained/practiced in many clubs/dojos. To try and reformulate my point, there are martial arts that you do for yourself, there is a competitive sport with one set of (mostly saftey) rules, there is a street fight (no rules at all) but as it finishes that turns into self defense which has the most restrictive rule set (law). also, im not bashing competitive sports, they can be fun, they can for sure show some things working and some call out for what they are, but they are not a prove all thing. Also, i am full on for pressure testing stuff, just lets be honest that some things need more practice and safety concerns then others. some are low risk some are high risk... there is a lot to take in account, thats it. hope i was a bit more clear. and as said, i dont want to fight over it and im sorry if it come through like that
Saw your fight yesterday, good job!
Thanks Marcus! As you can imagine I'm very disappointed myself, but I'll have my other opportunities 😊
@@MartialArtsJourney It was a hard fight and your opponent was good. I understand you are disappointed, but you did a good job and even stepping into the ring is impressive. I was there to support my brother cause it was his first fight, and I was very proud of him.
Dude. Thanks for making this. This is my assessment exactly. Keep up the good work.
I have used the front kick grab and sweep before in a resistant opponent situation. The goal is to also move in to the thigh because that is less snappy so it slows the kick down. And if you miss the grab, you can then strike. It is not a wasted movement.
Great breakdown. Segal's a goofball who knows a few legitimate techniques, but didn't show anything all that special or advanced.
Also, another reason to turn the fist even more is to raise the shoulder to protect the jaw.
When Segal was demonstrating the two punches later, the first "weaker" strike was more shallow. The second pushed more through the opponent.
Exactly. Love how the karate expert didn't fold like Seagal expected him to. That was hilarious. It's almost as if Seagal pooped his pants at that moment.
If I remember it correctly, I heard Mike Tyson in one of his videos where he said that fighting is the easiest part in fighting. 11:50
The stupid thing is that people think every technique is meant to be practical in every situation. Obviously, every technique is designed with a particular situation in mind. First you master those basics, then you combine as necessary for every situation. Self-defense is supposed to be teachable to everyone, even your grandma. Would you want your grandma to be throwing punches into her shoulder like a boxer? Obviously not.
Seagal's aggressive techniques seems to be meant to kill or break bones, which makes it hard to have an all-out sparing match, so you can't really know if the slow-mo stuff really works or not. In MMA you have rules, and people can go 100% with "low" risk of serious life injuries, thus figuring out if the techniques are practical. Would love to see Seagal spar with MMA rules (no poking of the eyes and shit).
On the knee punch:
1. The knee is slower than the foot.
2. This is a "stop-hit" as described by Bruce Lee. Timing is key. You are stuffing the kick.
3. You absolutely must train this and train your hands with makiwara and heavy bag.
4. You target the soft tissue immediately above the knee, not the knee itself.
5. Repeated hits will destroy the knee's effective function. This is a hard style karate technique.
Does it work? Short answer is yes. I have used it myself, although I punch in a downward angle on the leg and don't rotate my body towards it the way he did. I also usually bounce in my footwork since my background is TKD. I have added Muay Thai and JKD techniques so my striking style is unorthodox.
I don't know if his technique is better. It could be. He's quick. I couldn't do it the way he did in a real match. I have used the technique the way I described in real matches. Usually on slower kicks, "ranging" kicks, etc. If you don't keep your kick snappy, I'm gonna punish you for it.
Thank you for the video, liked your comments a lot.
I have some things to point out as well, for instance when Steven tells that he preffers sliding vs "bouncing around" I think that when you are in a real fight situation, every attack can be the last one, you have to maintain the minimum amplitude of your mass movement, because if you bounce you can get caught in a position when you are a little offbalanced while been attacked. Imagine someone bouncing really high, he might be a little late with his counterattacks. The other thing is striking with a vertical fist. Again if you are boxing in the ring with gloves, it doesn't make much difference, though you may see many boxers who use vertical fist for the jabs, uppercuts and hooks, because of its more rigid structure. But when you fight someone with bare fists, first of all there is more chance of injuring your wrist, because very often your opponent can move forward or put an elbow up for example, or he can be heavier than you, so the structure of your body gets more important at than point. The other thing that when your fists are vertical, your elbows are in between you and your opponnent, than gives you more protection especially if your opponent decides to come closer and grab you, cause probably you wouldn't want to start wrestling on the street.
Vertical punches are used in boxing. It’s the only way to get through a double guard. Wing chun, jet Kune do, muy Thai, karate also use vertical punches.
So the issue about better connexion and alignment is that there is a different philosophy to the punch. With a vertical fist i am looking to connect my strike through my body to deliver force through coordination of the various muscle groups in my body, generating the force in reaction to the ground. The lower elbow is also good for containing lower hands. The vertical visit ensures it is the blade of the fist, the lower three larger knuckles, which makes contact, whilst having alignment through the wrist, which prevents a turning moment on contact, which could damage the wrist. This also protects the fingers. Striking with a horizontal fist tends to cause one to strike more with the fingers, unless the wrist is contorted. This increases the risk of breaking the fingers. Further more if the elbow is allowed to creep out, it loses its property of occupying the line. It can act as a hinge where power is dissipated. For countering a higher punch, this property might be useful, to disperse the strike, but then, I’d prefer a finger tip strike to a soft target, as it affords an addition finger’s length of range, which is safer.
I hope to see you speak and interact with Steven Seagal someday. I think your approach to sparring and fighting will actually open up a lot of people's eyes on the effectiveness of Steven Seagal's aikido. The big problem is if you reveal some truths, you might not be able to reveal them by his request. But, I have no doubt that he is a very formidable fighter. He looks like he has a lot of size and power. A punch by him would seriously hurt!
Tsuri Ashi (sliding foot) is not a forceful pressure that cause friction. It is the practice of maintaining contact with your feet, which is helpful for not tripping because you foot is not dropping onto items. It is very common in Judo. It also incorporate involves movement without jumping/bouncing and tries to maintain lateral movement without obvious vertical movement where you can be caught with no contact to the ground.
I'd like to see him try this on a really strong muay thai kicker. My prediction is: he wouldn't have hands at the end of the demonstration.
Excellent analysis.
1. Manipulating Finger: It does work to some extent, even in Judo is forbidden grabbing finger like that and even pistol grip is forbidden.
2. Catch a leg from kicks: It does work too, in Silat there are many method of training to catch a kick and throw.
3. Kata is to learn techniques even Judo has Kata. If you want to know how to execute techniques ask Kata Practitioner. From Nage No Kata, Katame No kata, Kime no kata, Go Sen No Sen No Kata (Counter techniques).
Vertícal fist was used by Dempsey, and is still used as a strategy by many fighters in certain circumstances including Lomachenko and Manny Pacquiao
Hey Rokas, another thing to consider about eye pokes is that they (along with groin kicks) are two illegal techniques in MMA that the referee will actually stop the fight and give a timeout. Hitting the back of the head doesn't cause the ref to stop the fight, neither does 12-6 elbows (although this rule is stupid). I always ask people who doubt the effectiveness of those techniques, "If they are so ineffective, why are they banned in competition?"
Because the audience doesn't want to see fighters maimed.
About the leg catching is actually legit, because many silat tournament use that technique, against aggressive people that kick super fast
Trapping works where an opponent does not have sensitivity and has a tendency to fight against a pressure using strength against better structure. One method is to evade, but against correct pressure (hand lost thrust forward/ receive what comes in, send away what leaves) it is not always easy. In terms of the footwork sliding, vs bouncing on feet to react/force through knees etc. in traditional arts, forms are played with correct detail (the same details lost in “mc Dojos”) the correct detail builds structure, positioning etc, amongst other things, but it also increases body health and durability in a manner which does not injure the practitioner. Through playing many forms, this can then be transitioned into movement. If I am bouncing, I have to wait for my feet to be in the correct position before before I can push off the ground. If I slide my feet, I am already in the correct position to react as my feet already have good ground contact, I’m also focused on my balance, such that I do not have to adjust balance, take weight off a foot, or move it in a substantial way in order to react with it. In this way the reaction is in fact faster. It also requires less energy, and so is less tiring. I.e. better energy management. In terms of tripping over objects, the feet are sensory, I’m learning to feel my surroundings with the feet, to ensure solid footing, if I’m bouncing around on uneven ground, I might put my foot down on a rock, or off a kerb, etc, in doing so twist an ankle or throw a knee.
Excellent analysis with an impartial mindset as always
Don`t hit the leg but you can make a double forearm or knifehand block. If you conditioned and trained properly that can hurt even fast roundhouse kicks. I have practiced that a lot in sparring and expirienced it myself over years of training in taekwondo.
Seagal is an entertainer, he’s an actor. i don’t think he could ever actually fight, that’s ridiculous
Steven Seagal’s body is transforming into kungfu panda. This is the highest form of martial art. It takes years of practice
man, an Aikido master and a Karate expert. I feel like watching an episode of the anime Baki the grappler.
UFC fighter Alexander Emelianenko trained with Seagal Shihan in Russia and gave high praises for Seagal shihans skill.
Again, I really enjoyed your breakdown. I will say that your analysis is overly generous in my opinion, though it's intelligent and learned. Everything Seagal says is either obvious, in general use in several martial arts, or just complete BS. Some of it is actually dangerous, and not to your opponent. I once watched another karate black belt use a Gedan-barai to block a kick and accidentally punch the other guy's leg. He broke several bones in his hand and could not use it for over half a year. As an aside, I tend to also disagree with the traditional view on teaching philosophy in martial arts content. I am uncomfortable doing so with my students as I don't know that I am necessarily a better person than they are nor that my philosophy should be universal. I'm not sure that anyone can say that, least of all Steven Seagal. I have studied several eastern philosophies, as well as western ones, and I see flaws in all of them. I tend to think that example is a better teacher than anything else you might say. I would say that you are, in fact, living that very same belief, showing by your example more than you do with words.
I agree, also Rokas is just too polite 😜
And he's known to be a bully and a creep, specially toward females. So what philosophy is he talking about???
I think that you’re right about the philosophy thing to a point, but I think a teacher should always encourage students to be respectful to each other and people, not to use violence unless essential and non avoidable, a basic philosophy but a philosophy all the same. I’ve always believed Seagal could do some decent damage, especially when younger, he’s big heavy and has very fast hands and knows where to strike. I don’t believe he’d be much use in an MMA or even kickboxing match, but in a confrontation I’d say he could definitely be able to do damage with his striking, much less likely with the locks though.
I like that you brought up the irrelevance of personality & politics. Someone can be a great fighter and have views you disagree with or be an asshole or anything like that or they can be the best person who agrees with you on everything but be bad at fighting.
Separating a person’s skill from their “quality” as a human being over all is important in analyses like these.
I can definitely see growth in your videos so far. You went from “Aikido #1” to seeing its flaws but then being a little bit blinded by that feeling of betrayal by the martial art that you devoted your youth to, a kind of immediate dismissal of anything that reminded you even vaguely of Aikido, and now you’ve arrived at a very objective place. You judge martial arts for what they are, you openly discuss the flaws of a martial art (of which Aikido has MANY) but don’t ignore the good things you can find in an art, even if they are few and far between.
Love to see it.
Finger attacks work on the street because often people grab on the street. You are unlikely to effectively defend a punch with a finger technique.
But if someone grabs you, finger techniques work well.
A lot of fighters do use the vertical punch depending on the range usually. Dempsey of course taught this, but he had a variety of punches as well. Ali threw triples of up, over, and in. Knuckles down, twisting, and vertical.
Seagal is getting the vertical punch from Wing Chun. When using it, you're not hitting the person with shoulder power, you're hitting with your whole body weight. It's harder than a jab, but just as fast. It's the only punch I've ever needed.
Roka you are awesome!
A boxing coach told that turning the fist was started after using gloves became common as it was easy to cut the face with bare knuckles but not so with gloves, so the turn was added to tear the skin, and that there is no noticeable difference in power. Before gloves were used, vertical punching was used which you can see in contemporary drawings, and vertical punching is actually safer for bare knuckles.
Great breakdown.
The part about Kata. Kata/Forms are important. In essence they are the container and blueprint of your best “zero pressure” manifestation of the art. But you need to understand the details, and you need this through practical application. Your forms should provide a virtuous feedback cycle in conjunction with practical drilling. I play more form, I practically drill, it doesn’t work. I adjust my detail, I play my form with this new detail, it works. Now I work cs a new partner, it no longer works, what detail or what application is wrong? Forms teach me to examine the little details. They embed those little details into me, so they are part of my, and when I need them they come out. They provide health, they provide power, they provide technique. They enable me to programme my body with appropriate tools, which I can then apply during practical application. But you need both. My SiTaiGung has always said to me: “most people think forms are about relaxation, but they are not, they are about power… relaxation comes from getting hit a lot”. I get hit, I get used to being hit, I relax, and then my best kung fu can come out. But forms give power.
What Jesse did is let the old guy play his usual role. He not only didn't confront him but also assisted him as if he didn't know the old guy is full of BS. Everybody in comments was like "what a nice guy i have to reevaluate what i think about him" , yeah nice guy until you assist him in his acting. All those show off moments and talking about how dangerous he is, secret techniques and how he is better than anybody else is just the good(bad) old Steven we know from other videos. In this video you really politely hinted that most things he showed is probably work only in this training slow-mo environment.
when it comes to striking with eye pokes (not grappling purely standing striking) they can work. BUT I think Icy mike is right on the money that you need to be able to fight anyway cos if you can't land your hand in someone's face when they're attacking you then it's not gonna work. The eyes are also very small targets but you do get some leeway cos the sockets are might help you slide in sometimes. Alternatively, if you have the reach advantage u can jon jones them and have your fingers out for them to run onto. My issue is that some ppl exclusively teach that stuff as "the only thing you need, 100% fight ending etc" and then that's all u have. It's fine to train eye pokes as long as you're training to fight in general aswell.
Also the way he shows that vertical punch he sacrifices a lot of reach by not fully extending his arm. Not to mention that he leans forward a lot,which we could argue is just for the demonstration,but at the same time this way the power behind the punch is not really measurable. 'Cause by leaning he puts more weight into the punch,which should be done by transfering the weight between legs and not by leaning as leaning leaves you open to the counterpunches. NOT to mention that by punching this way aside from losing reach he can't cover himself properly with the shoulder of his punching hand,which combined with the lack of reach can cause even more problems. Especially combined with his approach of "not moving to much" as it negates the head movement (as you mentioned,it's easier to avoid punches if you move a lot),so he doesn't even have that in his line of defense
The problem of applying Aikido techniques in fight situation is solved by the Filipinos in the technique called entrada. For example: Setting up the Kotegaeshi. Countering a jab or a cross with split intry (crossada intry in Filipino Martial Arts version). When the counter lands cleanly it separates the opponents head to its limbs due to the impact and with that it buys time to perform the Kotegaeshi to the opponents punching hand.
Hi. Years back when doing jiu jitsu and aikido in my 20s in my "youthful wisdom" i loved aikido. and it made my jiu jitsu better with the superior movement and (far) better understanding of locks. yet I decided it "doesn't work in reality". yet i stayed training. there was something i needed to understand. Now 2 decades of training more i realised that i just did not understand what the reality OF aikido was. Techniques are irrelevant. What is important is what you develop internally in the body that goes way beyond strength and power as most youngsters understand it. Like puppies need to play fight in order to become a grown up dog. The harmony in aikido is the harmony within yourself. your stance, balance of forces (6 directions), breath, awareness etc. The harmony with an opponent (musubi) comes from that. As does striking/entering (irimi) and deflecting/evading (tenkan) through rotation around the spine. Then that up and downward force balance with relaxed 'heaviness' (tenchi and otoshi). The shoulders and arms to be completely relaxed like a rope, yet can become hard like a jo strike (ie karate strike) in an instant. This is what aikido is really all about. not putting on gloves in a ring and sparring. Take off the gloves and the rules and that is all done. Only in getting all of these things together can you really even begin to understand the aikido that Ueshiba taught. His legendary power came from full mastery of these elements. Not in applying specific techniques. No time for that in real combat.
Great commentary. It's interesting that in Isshinryu we slide the feet. We also use a vertical punch. I don't think it's claimed to be more powerful, more that it's a shorter, quicker punch straight to the solar plexus. The sliding the feet thing is also often explained in terms of NOT being in a dojo, meaning if there is litter on the ground you can brush it aside. If it's dark or you're on uneven ground you won't trip, etc.
You are right. We have to separate who Steven seagal is and what he says. Despite how much of a controversial figure he is. He might have 1 or two good points. Perhaps presure testing his claims maybe?
He would never agree to it. He didn't fight when he was at his prime, I doubt he would do it now.
@@binnieb173 He did many fights inside Japan, you do not know his history
@@alexandrealves2877 He also says hes an ex navy seal and an ex CIA operative. All things that ACTUAL seals and CIA agents have called him out for. He is a known liar.
There are NO records of his fighting. No one has ever confirmed his stories of fighting. In fact he told a story about fighting off Yakuza at his dojo in Japan, a story that his ex father in law, the actual owner of the dojo has called a lie.
You are repeating a story with no evidence.
@@binnieb173 No... You think I'm talking about stories I've heard, but that's not it.
I TRAINED with Seagal Sensei's first student, Haruo Matsuoka Sensei. And by the student you can know if the master is genuine.
Seagal Sensei was a direct disciple of Tohei Sensei and Abe Sensei, he trained seriously there in Japan and at a time when Aikido was being tested by other martial artists.
He inherited the Dojo when his father-in-law passed away, so there's no way his father-in-law could have said anything after that.
@@alexandrealves2877 A video from the 80's or 90's of him fighting a guy his own size would shut everyone up.
The sliding foot work you are referring to is also used in wing Chun and sun style tai chi, however, it is referred to as a follow step.
At :33 foot stomp with steel toe boots works very well
So I have noticed something in most martial arts review videos, Rokas.
It seems like most people judge how an style works compared to other style, but actually no style was developed to counter any of the styles it is compared with.
Let me clarify, some styles try to take advantage of natural reactions that 99% of people would have in certain situations, but that no trained fighter would have (such as closing the eyes or look away).
I think the same applies to the kick defense techniques here. A Thai boxer would probably have a set of skills and a range of resources 99% of people do not.
PD: vertical fists are the norm in barelnuckle boxing. They were only changed to horizontal fists when the boxing glove and hand wraps were introduced. VF are safer for your hand.
Very good commentary Rokas!
Good video. One point. Boxers do use a vertical punch. But more to the point on it. When I teach Yes you are obviously losing power power with a vertical punch over a straight punch. But wbut one of the things II like to point out is the difference between is the difference between causing as much damage as possible versus doing enough dmg.
Example. "Fake numbers "
Straight 250lbs of force.
Vertical 150lbs.
But does that matter when it takes 50lbs to break the board. This is expressed alot in bare knuckle boxing with upper cuts
Great video, Rokas, I think you made some excellent points. But please try to resort less to jumps cuts while you're talking. I understand it's for economy of speech, but it's becoming distracting.
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In a professional fight both parties are capable trained and ready for the fight expecting an attack. And even a professional fighter can be caught off guard in real life. Martial Arts is about surprise, deception and misdirection. All styles begin with no resistance and as you build skills you increase speed or resistance. Saying "that doesn't work in a professional fight" is a pretty specific and smug statement.
Very good analysis, would be Nice seeing rokas reacting about Jesse ninja master vídeo too.