for reals. He didnt say anything useful. Just that he wants to complain. I guess that's your right. But damn, that made me think of someone just whining
Although your video is focused on Meta, my question, is what can we Dev's do to try and help the eco system. Meta's choices are obviously outside of most of our control, but for those of us who love VR and want to create for it, what would you suggest we do to help enrich the ecosystem?
I'm going to again suggest ThrillSeekers video on VRs biggest flaw. It needs a universal design, more apps need to prioritise hand tracking over controllers and it need to be responsive and intuitive
I wouldn't say the quest 3 was a minor improvement. The resolution upgrade is significantly noticable, and it's hugely improved by the fantastic lenses. I get noticably better performance in all the games I play, the WiFi 6 and 6e support is hugely beneficial for wireless pcvr, the passthrough is actually usable now, and by far one of the biggest improvements is the tracking. I've been able to play games with just the light from a computer screen with zero issues. Of course the depth sensor is largely the reason for this. The weight is maybe 3 grams heavier, but I've never noticed it because of how much better the weight distribution is due to the reduced size. It has only ever felt more natural and comfortable to wear, despite the absolutely atrocious default headstrap. The battery life does suck which is an annoying downside, especially when it dies while plugged in via link cable 💀 Quest 3 meatriding aside, I agree that many games get very boring, and I largely think that this is because in the world of vr, games with some amount of story or campaign are exceptionally rare. Almost all the games seem to be either online competetive games or arcade-style games and it gets quite exhausting. So many games as well end up coming across as some kind of tech demo rather than a finished product. I'm a HUGE fan of hand tracking, IN THEORY. However, in practice, using cameras for hand tracking can fundementally never cut it. Take waltz of the wizard for example. It's got so many cool features and when it works, it feels genuinely magical. But 95% of the time (for me at least), I'm trying to figure out how to get the app to register a snap without losing tracking or just teleporting me. When a system that's supposed to feel as natural as just using your hands has as much imprecision and drift as the current hand tracking on the quest 2 and 3 do, it causes extreme frustration and confusion for any user. Human hands are so precise that in order for hand tracking to ever really work, we need some kind of glove or wristband that can track the movement. Even if we don't have haptic feedback gloves with fluid pockets for 6 billion dollars a glove, Just being able to use our hands accurately will make an indescribably big difference. Additionally, there are only so many gestures we can use with our hands at once. Controllers give a level of precision that is hard to achieve with just hands. Switching from controllers to hand tracking is a bit like trying to switch from a keyboard to a controller, for doing something like photoshop where it requires tons of keybinds and shortcuts. Take, for instance, locomotion. Just came back to this comment after forgetting to finish it and realized I just have to send it because I don't want to type 100% of my yapping right now
I mostly agree with you. The Quest 3 being a minor improvement was just me comparing it to the insane jump that was the quest 1 to 2 that actually made vr go more mainstream. Yeah, its an upgrade and a pretty big one. But when compared to the jump of the original quest 1 to the quest 2 it doesn't seem as big anymore. And for games, yes, I still believe controllers are the way to go, but hand tracking is still new technology and we don't know what may come in the future, so I guess for now controllers work fine for games. Metas UI still needs a huge rework in terms of making it easier with hand tracking though.
Two things: 1. Others may be interpreting it differently but I don't see this as hate on Quest or Meta; just looking at it realistically. If anything it's pointing out what Meta should do to better appeal to the general population (who by default is extremely hard to please), so that VR advances even further. Just tough love 2. Happy to see a VR creator making an original video essay! Hope to see more of these!
100%. VR as a whole is slowly but surely becoming less "niche" and a more widespread thing which is largely due to Meta. These were just some of my experiences I've had with the quest headsets that really made it just annoying to use, which usually ended up with it sitting on my desk collecting dust for months
If you look at the timeline of VR development as an industry, it was advancing quickly up until the release of the Quest 2 at $300. That's when VR development suddenly slowed to a crawl. Facebook released the Quest 2 at a price even they themselves could not sustain in order to buy the market and make it impossible for other companies to compete and innovate because any headset at a price where profit was possible couldn't sell against the Quest 2. This is anti-competitive practices 101. Big company comes in and undercuts all competitors, loses buckets of money itself until competitors are gone, then raises prices after monopoly is established. Facebook interrupted the usual cycle of early expensive hardware selling to early adopters. The profit from early products being expensive drives innovation to improve those products and bring their costs down. Facebook brought the prices way down artificially. That gave consumers a cheaper product early which was nice, but by now we would have had those cheaper prices naturally with better products if innovation hadn't been nearly frozen. Instead we're in 2024 with VR technology which hasn't improved all that much since 2019. This is why the Valve Index remained (and for some people still remains) the king for so many years. It's not that it was ahead of its time, but rather that headsets released after it stopped improving because they couldn't compete against the artificially low price of the Quest 2. Meanwhile, the cheap Quest 2 sold a lot of headsets which should have turbo charged game development for VR... but it was weak hardware and so dragged game quality backwards at the same time. A lot of people these days actually credit Meta as the savior of VR and say that VR would have died without Meta. But I don't believe this. Other companies would have taken up the mantle instead and likely done a better job of it. Heck, other companies were, but they were largely bullied out of it. Competition is good. Now Apple has entered the space. Meta can't bully them. I'm not a fan of Apple myself, but I appreciate what their entry is doing in terms of revitalizing competition in the VR space. Innovation in VR is starting to move again!
Afaik Meta was selling the Quest 2 at a loss purely with the assumptions they'd make the money back with selling user info and games. They won, and now VR as an industry has to pay for it with crappy old technology with a really promising future, but at the rate Meta is going we won't see proper improvements in VR until 2025 or later...
I would say the Quest 3 is a pretty good VR headset, however I can agree with the repetitiveness and boredom. I like some of the experiences and games but after about 30 mins of use, I just put it back in its case and it sits for weeks. But I just buy stuff just to say I got it.
SteamVR on the Valve Index doesn't have most of these issues. I recently bought a Quest 3 and have tons of issues. Quest 3 software is trash and doesn't work. We need an open environment that is FREE, like SteamVR and Meta needs to stop pushing this OS headset garbage.
Yeah, thats why I said that the video was mainly focused on Meta. The issue with PCVR is the barrier of entry is BIG. I mean you need at minimum a £800~ pc and a £1000 headset to get the most out of PCVR. Really cool technology but it'll be while before general users have access to it.
Personally, I really do not think VR is dying. Just tonight, I was showing an old VR game to my friends, Marvels Iron-Man, and the response was awesome! After them going crazy, I told them Iron-man was one of the oldest VR games I have. We played murder mysteries together, switching the head set, while the rest of us played along on the TV. At that point my friend expressed how great it would be to play these game with everyone having a headset. I told him, there are tons of VR networked games! He tried a DnD like game with other real players, like every thing was on my table in his real space. VR is still new, admittingly. But the technology is basically heading to a pair of sunglasses, and off you go. VR will only die if we let it! 😀 Any Batman Arkham Asylum fans out there, the Quest 3 is going next level with that franchise, not to mention Alien, and others!
Just gotta hope it goes mainstream soon. I subscribed to meta quest plus because i was bored of my current games, they have some awesome stuff on there which is good. VR is new, ofc, but the last thing I want is it being ruled over by a few specific companies (or literally just meta)
I feel the Quest 3 is still the best you can get for the money right now. Everything else at that price is worse and better VR headsets are very expensive.
i litteraly daily vr for like 6 hours. dont know what people are talking about, i have no idea what people are mad about the ui, it looks nice stop being so picky. i can list over 10 games i could play for hours, something i cant do for pc. also 0 controllers make making game difficult. Especially if its an fps game. there just isnt many options that feel good to use for controls
Too much clutter, I don't need my apps that are uninstalled to stay in my app library. Meta/Facebook, need I say more? I don't need their apps shoved down my throat. The Oculus menu that shows up in games is too big, pauses the game and lags everything out. Too many buttons that do next to nothing, should have the option to disable them (social tab, explore tab, store tab, etc) No universal UI design that makes all apps intuitive like Windows, iOS and Android
Not gonna lie, you are kinda right, as bad as it is For 1. isn't Facebook or Meta extremely rich, I don't know why they wasted their time with the Meta Quest Pro, I knew that it wouldn't succeed because mixed reality seems impractical and the Vision Pro flopped so hard as I predicted. 2. the upgrade from 2 to 3 seems decent yeah the pancake lenses are nice but at 500 dollars minimum without accessories that you know you have to buy like battery, silicon face thingy, head strap, headset protector, and controller protectors = so its basically a 600 dollar headset at 128GB only, a ps5 today is like 400 for disk version 3. where are the Quest 3 titles 4. quest 4 is probably anyways coming out in 2027 or 2026 in October (if it does?) I might just hold out till that one comes out as far as it seems right now 5. quest 3 Lite is coming out later this year in 2024 with the power of Quest 3 but the same fresnel lenses from Quest 2. It pretty much but at hopefully 300 dollar price point ( its basically the quest 2 pro) 6. I've heard that Quest 3 isn't worth the money and have heard the glazing that it is so im not sure which is true. 7. plus the games cost from 10 to 70 dollars as well which adds up. ( the games should be cheaper since the market for vr is still trying to attract consumers) ps. I've heard of leaks that the Quest 3 is canceling the 128 GB at 499 and replacing it with 256gb when the Lite later this year comes out as well. overall good video, people just hate harsh or kinda real opinions on how perhaps we should be getting better than this for a company as big as Meta seems like they holding back and paying the price for it the quest 3 sales are kinda dog water too 💀 I think the quest 3 is a worthy upgrade but they better not pull this shite again for the quest 4 i rather have the quest 4 come out till 2027 but with big and massive improvements rather than the okayish major improvements right now. w vid 💯
Thanks for the support ❤️ And I completely agree with all of your points. I'll personally not be buying the Quest 3s or Quest 3 because I mainly use mine for PCVR and I can't be bothered to spend hundreds more on accessories. Sure they can slap a $299 price tag on the Quest 3s, but thats for the bare minimum modern vr experience.
@@GarrettTobyC13 The problem is that I have lags and game shutters with my home 5Ghz router with 300mbps so it will be even worse with hotel one where u get for example 15mbps, right? :D sorry for my english
we did vr too fast. our technology isnt were it needs to be to really use it. give it another 20 years and we will be in realy player 1 area or close to it. witch is what everybody wants not what we have now.
this exactly. quest 3 may have awesome displays and high refresh rates, but whats the point in all that when you dont have the hardware to run it at these resolutions and framerates
Do you think VR will slowly die out or will companies finally lock in and fix everything? Leave a comment to join the discussion!
LITERALLY just bought a quest 3 and this video pops up lmao.
same haha
You’re lucky im getting the 3 in 10 days
It sounds like a depressed person talking, maybe the problem isn't the meta quest.
I'm happier than I've ever been. What does my mental health have to do with this video?
for reals. He didnt say anything useful. Just that he wants to complain. I guess that's your right. But damn, that made me think of someone just whining
Although your video is focused on Meta, my question, is what can we Dev's do to try and help the eco system. Meta's choices are obviously outside of most of our control, but for those of us who love VR and want to create for it, what would you suggest we do to help enrich the ecosystem?
I'm going to again suggest ThrillSeekers video on VRs biggest flaw. It needs a universal design, more apps need to prioritise hand tracking over controllers and it need to be responsive and intuitive
I wouldn't say the quest 3 was a minor improvement. The resolution upgrade is significantly noticable, and it's hugely improved by the fantastic lenses. I get noticably better performance in all the games I play, the WiFi 6 and 6e support is hugely beneficial for wireless pcvr, the passthrough is actually usable now, and by far one of the biggest improvements is the tracking. I've been able to play games with just the light from a computer screen with zero issues. Of course the depth sensor is largely the reason for this. The weight is maybe 3 grams heavier, but I've never noticed it because of how much better the weight distribution is due to the reduced size. It has only ever felt more natural and comfortable to wear, despite the absolutely atrocious default headstrap.
The battery life does suck which is an annoying downside, especially when it dies while plugged in via link cable 💀
Quest 3 meatriding aside,
I agree that many games get very boring, and I largely think that this is because in the world of vr, games with some amount of story or campaign are exceptionally rare. Almost all the games seem to be either online competetive games or arcade-style games and it gets quite exhausting. So many games as well end up coming across as some kind of tech demo rather than a finished product.
I'm a HUGE fan of hand tracking, IN THEORY. However, in practice, using cameras for hand tracking can fundementally never cut it. Take waltz of the wizard for example. It's got so many cool features and when it works, it feels genuinely magical. But 95% of the time (for me at least), I'm trying to figure out how to get the app to register a snap without losing tracking or just teleporting me. When a system that's supposed to feel as natural as just using your hands has as much imprecision and drift as the current hand tracking on the quest 2 and 3 do, it causes extreme frustration and confusion for any user. Human hands are so precise that in order for hand tracking to ever really work, we need some kind of glove or wristband that can track the movement. Even if we don't have haptic feedback gloves with fluid pockets for 6 billion dollars a glove, Just being able to use our hands accurately will make an indescribably big difference. Additionally, there are only so many gestures we can use with our hands at once. Controllers give a level of precision that is hard to achieve with just hands. Switching from controllers to hand tracking is a bit like trying to switch from a keyboard to a controller, for doing something like photoshop where it requires tons of keybinds and shortcuts. Take, for instance, locomotion.
Just came back to this comment after forgetting to finish it and realized I just have to send it because I don't want to type 100% of my yapping right now
I mostly agree with you. The Quest 3 being a minor improvement was just me comparing it to the insane jump that was the quest 1 to 2 that actually made vr go more mainstream. Yeah, its an upgrade and a pretty big one. But when compared to the jump of the original quest 1 to the quest 2 it doesn't seem as big anymore. And for games, yes, I still believe controllers are the way to go, but hand tracking is still new technology and we don't know what may come in the future, so I guess for now controllers work fine for games. Metas UI still needs a huge rework in terms of making it easier with hand tracking though.
Two things:
1. Others may be interpreting it differently but I don't see this as hate on Quest or Meta; just looking at it realistically. If anything it's pointing out what Meta should do to better appeal to the general population (who by default is extremely hard to please), so that VR advances even further. Just tough love
2. Happy to see a VR creator making an original video essay! Hope to see more of these!
100%. VR as a whole is slowly but surely becoming less "niche" and a more widespread thing which is largely due to Meta. These were just some of my experiences I've had with the quest headsets that really made it just annoying to use, which usually ended up with it sitting on my desk collecting dust for months
If you look at the timeline of VR development as an industry, it was advancing quickly up until the release of the Quest 2 at $300. That's when VR development suddenly slowed to a crawl. Facebook released the Quest 2 at a price even they themselves could not sustain in order to buy the market and make it impossible for other companies to compete and innovate because any headset at a price where profit was possible couldn't sell against the Quest 2.
This is anti-competitive practices 101. Big company comes in and undercuts all competitors, loses buckets of money itself until competitors are gone, then raises prices after monopoly is established.
Facebook interrupted the usual cycle of early expensive hardware selling to early adopters. The profit from early products being expensive drives innovation to improve those products and bring their costs down. Facebook brought the prices way down artificially. That gave consumers a cheaper product early which was nice, but by now we would have had those cheaper prices naturally with better products if innovation hadn't been nearly frozen. Instead we're in 2024 with VR technology which hasn't improved all that much since 2019.
This is why the Valve Index remained (and for some people still remains) the king for so many years. It's not that it was ahead of its time, but rather that headsets released after it stopped improving because they couldn't compete against the artificially low price of the Quest 2.
Meanwhile, the cheap Quest 2 sold a lot of headsets which should have turbo charged game development for VR... but it was weak hardware and so dragged game quality backwards at the same time.
A lot of people these days actually credit Meta as the savior of VR and say that VR would have died without Meta. But I don't believe this. Other companies would have taken up the mantle instead and likely done a better job of it. Heck, other companies were, but they were largely bullied out of it. Competition is good.
Now Apple has entered the space. Meta can't bully them. I'm not a fan of Apple myself, but I appreciate what their entry is doing in terms of revitalizing competition in the VR space. Innovation in VR is starting to move again!
Afaik Meta was selling the Quest 2 at a loss purely with the assumptions they'd make the money back with selling user info and games. They won, and now VR as an industry has to pay for it with crappy old technology with a really promising future, but at the rate Meta is going we won't see proper improvements in VR until 2025 or later...
I would say the Quest 3 is a pretty good VR headset, however I can agree with the repetitiveness and boredom. I like some of the experiences and games but after about 30 mins of use, I just put it back in its case and it sits for weeks. But I just buy stuff just to say I got it.
SteamVR on the Valve Index doesn't have most of these issues. I recently bought a Quest 3 and have tons of issues. Quest 3 software is trash and doesn't work. We need an open environment that is FREE, like SteamVR and Meta needs to stop pushing this OS headset garbage.
Yeah, thats why I said that the video was mainly focused on Meta. The issue with PCVR is the barrier of entry is BIG. I mean you need at minimum a £800~ pc and a £1000 headset to get the most out of PCVR. Really cool technology but it'll
be while before general users have access to it.
Personally, I really do not think VR is dying. Just tonight, I was showing an old VR game to my friends, Marvels Iron-Man, and the response was awesome! After them going crazy, I told them Iron-man was one of the oldest VR games I have. We played murder mysteries together, switching the head set, while the rest of us played along on the TV. At that point my friend expressed how great it would be to play these game with everyone having a headset. I told him, there are tons of VR networked games! He tried a DnD like game with other real players, like every thing was on my table in his real space. VR is still new, admittingly. But the technology is basically heading to a pair of sunglasses, and off you go. VR will only die if we let it! 😀
Any Batman Arkham Asylum fans out there, the Quest 3 is going next level with that franchise, not to mention Alien, and others!
Just gotta hope it goes mainstream soon. I subscribed to meta quest plus because i was bored of my current games, they have some awesome stuff on there which is good. VR is new, ofc, but the last thing I want is it being ruled over by a few specific companies (or literally just meta)
I feel the Quest 3 is still the best you can get for the money right now. Everything else at that price is worse and better VR headsets are very expensive.
the quest 3 is an awesome headset yes but in my eyes was not a big a leap as the quest 2 was from the quest 1
Oh stop crying
why? are you getting bills for it?
Nice, a person who this video is exactly aimed at.
I have not played vr in a year I got back into this week
Congrats
200% agree with this video. VR still has a lonnnnng way to go!
blade and sorcery is almost worth vr alone. its so awesome
heard a lot about this game
@@streetlevr give it a try but make sure you have your vr legs first or its barf city.
i litteraly daily vr for like 6 hours. dont know what people are talking about, i have no idea what people are mad about the ui, it looks nice stop being so picky. i can list over 10 games i could play for hours, something i cant do for pc. also 0 controllers make making game difficult. Especially if its an fps game. there just isnt many options that feel good to use for controls
We aren't "being so picky", the UI is horrible. I'm going for a third time to recommend thrillseekers video on vrs biggest problem
@@streetlevr i already watched it, tell me how its bad currently
Too much clutter, I don't need my apps that are uninstalled to stay in my app library.
Meta/Facebook, need I say more? I don't need their apps shoved down my throat.
The Oculus menu that shows up in games is too big, pauses the game and lags everything out.
Too many buttons that do next to nothing, should have the option to disable them (social tab, explore tab, store tab, etc)
No universal UI design that makes all apps intuitive like Windows, iOS and Android
@@streetlevr 90% of that isn't an issue just ignore it it's easy
@streetlevr did you delete your comment or did the person delete their comment, the one that we were arguing in
Not gonna lie, you are kinda right, as bad as it is
For 1. isn't Facebook or Meta extremely rich, I don't know why they wasted their time with the Meta Quest Pro, I knew that it wouldn't succeed because mixed reality seems impractical and the Vision Pro flopped so hard as I predicted.
2. the upgrade from 2 to 3 seems decent yeah the pancake lenses are nice but at 500 dollars minimum without accessories that you know you have to buy like battery, silicon face thingy, head strap, headset protector, and controller protectors = so its basically a 600 dollar headset at 128GB only, a ps5 today is like 400 for disk version
3. where are the Quest 3 titles
4. quest 4 is probably anyways coming out in 2027 or 2026 in October (if it does?) I might just hold out till that one comes out as far as it seems right now
5. quest 3 Lite is coming out later this year in 2024 with the power of Quest 3 but the same fresnel lenses from Quest 2. It pretty much but at hopefully 300 dollar price point
( its basically the quest 2 pro)
6. I've heard that Quest 3 isn't worth the money and have heard the glazing that it is so im not sure which is true.
7. plus the games cost from 10 to 70 dollars as well which adds up.
( the games should be cheaper since the market for vr is still trying to attract consumers)
ps. I've heard of leaks that the Quest 3 is canceling the 128 GB at 499 and replacing it with 256gb when the Lite later this year comes out as well.
overall good video, people just hate harsh or kinda real opinions on how perhaps we should be getting better than this for a company as big as Meta seems like they holding back and paying the price for it the quest 3 sales are kinda dog water too 💀 I think the quest 3 is a worthy upgrade but they better not pull this shite again for the quest 4 i rather have the quest 4 come out till 2027 but with big and massive improvements rather than the okayish major improvements right now. w vid 💯
Thanks for the support ❤️
And I completely agree with all of your points. I'll personally not be buying the Quest 3s or Quest 3 because I mainly use mine for PCVR and I can't be bothered to spend hundreds more on accessories. Sure they can slap a $299 price tag on the Quest 3s, but thats for the bare minimum modern vr experience.
interesting and grabbing title. i am happy as a METAmentor to proove you wrong. And the First Official VR World Records are a proove :)
I don't see any proving wrong ?
I don’t know I find a ton of fun games (not gtag) that have good graphics and fun
I agree with the part about having that god damn head strap
My only problem is that airlink is lagging even with nasa pc/internet...literally bought Quest 3 bcs I wanted play without cables ffs...
Virtual Desktop on top
@@streetlevr cool but what if Im traveling? Can I use it with hotel wifi? Dont think so..
you can but its not recommended. airlink in my experience has never come close to the smoothness and fine tuning capabilities of vd
@@GarrettTobyC13 The problem is that I have lags and game shutters with my home 5Ghz router with 300mbps so it will be even worse with hotel one where u get for example 15mbps, right? :D sorry for my english
I have wifi 5 with around 100mbps and mine is butter smooth. are you sure its not something wrong with your network card perhaps?
we did vr too fast. our technology isnt were it needs to be to really use it. give it another 20 years and we will be in realy player 1 area or close to it. witch is what everybody wants not what we have now.
this exactly. quest 3 may have awesome displays and high refresh rates, but whats the point in all that when you dont have the hardware to run it at these resolutions and framerates
jea i understand but i love vr i play gorilla tag so much i love it so much but you a littel bit right
me personally i don't like gorilla tag and i never will but hey if thats what u like then fair enough
Tbh my friend i think you're talking a load of shite.
I respect your opinion