Respectfully I would disagree it really helps me and my partner to talk through the move and help each other. 1 person gets to think more about the move by explaining to their partner, the other benefits from knowledge share.
100% agree and even aside from that, the number of times the coach finishes explaining something and I turn to my partner and they look like the coach has been speaking Chinese is countless.
@@ZeMole420 totally and even if the white belt tells the other white belt the wrong thing the wrong way, what does it matter, one day they will learn they learnt it wrong and they will next time re-consider listening to the uneducated white belt overall its a good lesson to undergo
If I have to stand there for 5 minutes and possibly wait on the coach during a class to teach someone a movement, then it might be digging into my time to rep the move as well.
Respectfully disagree with this take. "Leave it to the coach." The same coach who has 30 other students to instruct and is over in the corner, per your own scenario? If you and your partner want to figure things out together, or your partner knows more than you and can correct you, that is far superior than waiting for the coach who might never get around to you.
Agreed. I find the information actually sticks with me better sometimes when me and partner are figuring things out. It's like things just click all the sudden. Like oooohhh now I got it!
That’s the thing with big classes Vs small ones. The big classes you get little instruction with detail that doesn’t stick unless drilled or in a smaller class but the benefit of the big class Vs small is that you get better rolls. Just make the best of what you got
My typical partner at bjj and I like to point out things we KNOW, for instance, he might point out I'm not creating enough distance, or I might offer that he'll need more pressure to keep me from escaping in a given scenario, we stay out of the finer points and leave that to the coach, but the feed back is really good for things that are obvious
Agree, if me or my partner is lost I’d rather then help me get the technique 70% right then just do nothing at all. The. Coach can fix the 30% that is wrong. At the same time going with someone who wants to coach you when it’s not needed and they have no idea what they are talking about b it act like they have everything figured out is annoying. Can’t stand people who want to be a coach when they have zero credibility.
I appreciate feedback from my drilling partners, even white belts! Even if it's just "this is choking me" or "it's not choking me." Or "I can easily sweep you because your weight is too much on this side." I wish the coach could be there watching every rep as we drill, but often, the coach is not there to see ANY of your 8-10 reps because there are 40 people in the class, and I'm happy to have a training partner who is at least trying to help.
If you can’t actually instruct them individually, either be lenient with others who may offer some advice. Otherwise we just get stuck. But the real answer here is get an assistant. Get two assistants. The issue isn’t that students are teaching each other, it’s that the coach doesn’t have enough time to spend with them.
Coach here: I am blessed to have a room with 50% blue and up. I partner my white belts with more experienced guys ap than the more experienced guys will help the white belts. They check it with me to make sure they're not messing it up but it allows me to cover more ground faster
Repeating what an instructor said is helpful. Since instructors don't give you notes to the 20 step move, it's almost impossible a student will remember every step. There should be many assistants for a 30 student class.
Totally disagree here, it’s blatant appeal to authority fallacy. It’s always better to ask the coach for help whenever possible, but you absolutely should be trying to assist your partner if he’s struggling with the technique and you’re not. Even if you offer bad or unhelpful advice, your training partner knows you’re not the coach and won’t take it as the word of gospel if it isn’t helping, and the coach can always correct it later when he gets around to you.
I don't necessarily agree with this. Im a brown belt coach and been on both sides of this. If I have a higher belt paired up with a lower belt i actually expect the higher belt to give extra tips and corrections to the lower belt. I've also been on the other side where I show up to a class I'm not teaching and giving a "tip" to a lower belt and then prof shows up and corrects what I said. It's expected.
At my gym lower belts practice with upper belts with the soul purpose of having that upper belt walk them through it and give them tips that have helped them personally. When it comes down to it that person is teaching you more so hands on than the coach ever will so I definitely disagree with this take but I do see your point of view.
Actually, often times I learn more from my blue, purple and brown belt partners through little tips that they correct me or share with me, than from the coach. Not being able to share details with my partners would make learning BJJ very slow and inneficient.
Agree with a lot of the other comments that disagree with Keenan. It's either my partner and I try to figure it out ourselves the best we can until the coach gets to us, or we don't get to practice the technique at all. I can also ask a higher belt to the left of me who's done this technique 3 times this week already, and I can get some feedback that way. Pretty basic stuff for a class setting.
respectfully, don't agree with this one keenan. we should all be able to learn from one another as in most cases we all have something to offer. ive gotten some of the best tips from random purple/brown belts who weren't running the class but just troubleshooting things with me while drilling.
Didn't Keenan also say that purple belts today are better/more knowledgeable than black belts of previous generations? You have to be a brown belt to do the drills correctly?
I disagree I am an experienced practitioner and always help my white and blue belt partners when their technique needs correction. Only things my coach has taught me himself
Last week we had a white belt started teaching a purple belt what to do. The purple belt purposely asks the white belt what to do as a way to be socially connect first, the white belt lacks social skills and never asks any questions. When it was time to roll, of course the white belt gets destroyed and he doesn't seem to be happy.
Sometimes it's just a small detail you or your training partner is missing and is trying to remember. it seems appropriate to offer some help if you know the answer
There is a difference between "coaching" and "helping". I don't think Keenan is against helping people through instructions that have already been given. Like a white belt helping another white belt with a little tip with something that's already been taught. The problem, I think, is when someone with little or no experience starts taking it upon themselves to go around and start "coaching" others.
Yeah I get what you mean but do you know how frustrating it can be not knowing what to do and coach is on the other side only to luckily come to you and spend 30 secs of fixing one part. In that time your partner who isn't perfect but at least can help with something -.-
Anyone who gets butthurt over this has gotta be those dudes that think they can teach when they had a couple of weeks of training when they were white belts but actually sucked so bad that when it's time to roll, they did these "mini seminars" to new white belts in the corner rather than proving that their theoritical knowledge actually works against resisting opponents 🤣
Its all about the subtle details…the secret sauce…you can drill a move 1000 times most of them wrong and finally make enough corrections and refinements to get it right or you can think out the subtle details in advance and only have to rep it 100 times to get it right…”a copy of a copy” of the details most likely could screw you up is what he is saying.
I disagree too many times the coach doesnt have time to instruct said 30 people and i have to end up helping them. So i dont know what your saying dude. Practicing the right move is important from the getgo i get that but learning something over nothing is better imo
Yeah. This sounds nice but I can’t even tell you how many bjj classes I’ve been to where the teacher hasn’t said shit to me the entire time. They’ll give an example and then disappear.
I understand this but throughout my 4 years training the black belt coach taught the techniques and the blues, purples, and browns helped me work out the details.
I digress. I help all the time and it is never a problem. When the teacher shows a particular move, one that I have understood completely, if I see someone beside me that is struggling because he forgot to hold the opponents collar real tight, why wouldn't I tell him. They would do the same for me. As long as it is friendly and spot on. Why not? As long as it sticks to that one single move the teacher is trying to explain, I honestly don't see why not. I for one love when somebody helps me on those situations.
The move has 5 components : gripping the leg is one of them. Guy doesn’t grab the leg . So I tell him the move is to also grab the leg . Is that bad too? Ur kid of killing my spirit here
I understand your position from both sides. I'm an instructor for a couple other martial art styles and have had to correct issues students had with some techniques because they learned from another student that didn't fully understand the technique. I'm also new to BJJ and was training a technique in class last night regarding the turtle position. My partner and I were offering feedback to each other on how the technique felt. The idea was break the posture first so if either he or I didn't feel that our turtle posture was being broken or offset then we would let each other know so we could adjust our top position. I don't think we were trying to teach each other, but rather help each other figure the position that worked for each of us.
You say you have 30 students and 1 coach. if the coach is on the other side of the room, by the time he gets to the students , the time for reps would be done twice over. Most gyms I've trained with distributes experienced students to the less experienced ones for obvious reasons.
So, paying students aren't good enough to teach other students. You have to wait for the all-knowing, all-powerful instructor to saunter over and give you the secrets. There's no benefit that can be derived from a non-instructor teaching students. Question, at what point does the instructor become an instructor?
Disagree. Sometimes people forget basics steps or do things wildly wrong (like applying pressure in completely the wrong direction). It's definitely adding information to correct that. We've all experienced the know-it-all fake coaches but this is just way too broad to the point that it's a little silly.
What’s your recommendation when your partner is drilling the technique wrong? Don’t say anything, do your drilling and let him continued doing it wrong? Sincerely asking..
Don't take on more student's than you can teach. It sucks to get no help. When one coach is one butter knife full of peanut butter how many slices can he/she cover?
Unfortunately, some coaches show up to teach 15 minutes of technique at the beginning of class and then disengage for the last 45 minutes while everyone is training/sparring.
Such a dumb advice, pardon me my frank words. I've been told many times that I tought valuable stuff to people, or even helped them to get the belt (not my words). The coach also doesn't seem to care much, and rightly so. As there is variation to the knowledge of the teachers, there is variation to the level and knowledge of the students. I even have been told by some coaches they learn from me. And I am not even a well known BJJ practitioner.
I just reiterate what coach said a minute before and always give reference to which coach or source of info whenever I share opinion of partners’ techniques
Kinda agree, but the truth is: most people with brains and some social skills, even without knowing jiu jitsu, will learn quickly who knows, who think it knows and who's pretending to know.
For sure!!! i only insist on things that if my coach came over he would be like "yes i agree because thats what i say" hahahha You have to have a high level coach to be proud about that tho.. I can see some coaches instilling less than confidence in their students.. Not everyone can be a world class athlete and not every gym is gonna be run by a mendez brother, or firas.. maybe a machado, because they are everywhere... Weve all gotta grow together in a competitive sport, and that imitates real life and que the endless philosophical nonsense we distract ourselves with til our time is up and its someone elses time to rummage through the muck of subjective existence.. Learn, unlearn, re learn, bah! Just make sure you are light hearted and funny about this, make people feel ashamed about doing it and correct those giving bad advice and let the world turn..
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Respectfully I would disagree it really helps me and my partner to talk through the move and help each other.
1 person gets to think more about the move by explaining to their partner, the other benefits from knowledge share.
100% agree and even aside from that, the number of times the coach finishes explaining something and I turn to my partner and they look like the coach has been speaking Chinese is countless.
true
@@ZeMole420 totally and even if the white belt tells the other white belt the wrong thing the wrong way, what does it matter, one day they will learn they learnt it wrong and they will next time re-consider listening to the uneducated white belt
overall its a good lesson to undergo
If I have to stand there for 5 minutes and possibly wait on the coach during a class to teach someone a movement, then it might be digging into my time to rep the move as well.
I agree
Respectfully disagree with this take. "Leave it to the coach." The same coach who has 30 other students to instruct and is over in the corner, per your own scenario? If you and your partner want to figure things out together, or your partner knows more than you and can correct you, that is far superior than waiting for the coach who might never get around to you.
Agreed. I find the information actually sticks with me better sometimes when me and partner are figuring things out. It's like things just click all the sudden. Like oooohhh now I got it!
That’s the thing with big classes Vs small ones. The big classes you get little instruction with detail that doesn’t stick unless drilled or in a smaller class but the benefit of the big class Vs small is that you get better rolls. Just make the best of what you got
My typical partner at bjj and I like to point out things we KNOW, for instance, he might point out I'm not creating enough distance, or I might offer that he'll need more pressure to keep me from escaping in a given scenario, we stay out of the finer points and leave that to the coach, but the feed back is really good for things that are obvious
Agree, if me or my partner is lost I’d rather then help me get the technique 70% right then just do nothing at all. The. Coach can fix the 30% that is wrong.
At the same time going with someone who wants to coach you when it’s not needed and they have no idea what they are talking about b it act like they have everything figured out is annoying.
Can’t stand people who want to be a coach when they have zero credibility.
you are right
I appreciate feedback from my drilling partners, even white belts! Even if it's just "this is choking me" or "it's not choking me." Or "I can easily sweep you because your weight is too much on this side." I wish the coach could be there watching every rep as we drill, but often, the coach is not there to see ANY of your 8-10 reps because there are 40 people in the class, and I'm happy to have a training partner who is at least trying to help.
yeah me too
once i got my purple belt i was actually encouraged by my coach to do this 🤷♂
If you can’t actually instruct them individually, either be lenient with others who may offer some advice. Otherwise we just get stuck. But the real answer here is get an assistant. Get two assistants. The issue isn’t that students are teaching each other, it’s that the coach doesn’t have enough time to spend with them.
I agree.
The money you pay is equal no matter how it is dispersed. 30 plus students and 1 instructor is not even or equal.
I always welcome advice from a higher belt. It’s always worked that way at any BJJ place I’ve been
I agree this happens a lot and the details are wrong. Now what would you suggest if your partner asks you, especially if you’re an upper belt?
Coach here: I am blessed to have a room with 50% blue and up. I partner my white belts with more experienced guys ap than the more experienced guys will help the white belts. They check it with me to make sure they're not messing it up but it allows me to cover more ground faster
This is not always true
It's a solid rule of thumb.
It's not always not true either
This is exactly what the guy who loves to coach behind the coaches back would say
@@fritzdagger try not to get to frustrated keenan.. i know this issue means alot to you.
@@fritzdagger 😂
Repeating what an instructor said is helpful. Since instructors don't give you notes to the 20 step move, it's almost impossible a student will remember every step. There should be many assistants for a 30 student class.
Totally disagree here, it’s blatant appeal to authority fallacy. It’s always better to ask the coach for help whenever possible, but you absolutely should be trying to assist your partner if he’s struggling with the technique and you’re not. Even if you offer bad or unhelpful advice, your training partner knows you’re not the coach and won’t take it as the word of gospel if it isn’t helping, and the coach can always correct it later when he gets around to you.
Sometimes however there is someone who has been training a long time that is valuable to have to help out in this way.
What do you recommend as the alternative while they wait for the professor to get back to them for the proper instructions?
I don't necessarily agree with this. Im a brown belt coach and been on both sides of this. If I have a higher belt paired up with a lower belt i actually expect the higher belt to give extra tips and corrections to the lower belt. I've also been on the other side where I show up to a class I'm not teaching and giving a "tip" to a lower belt and then prof shows up and corrects what I said. It's expected.
At my gym lower belts practice with upper belts with the soul purpose of having that upper belt walk them through it and give them tips that have helped them personally. When it comes down to it that person is teaching you more so hands on than the coach ever will so I definitely disagree with this take but I do see your point of view.
A great rule of thumb is if the coache's ego is too high he will agree with this advice.
Actually, often times I learn more from my blue, purple and brown belt partners through little tips that they correct me or share with me, than from the coach.
Not being able to share details with my partners would make learning BJJ very slow and inneficient.
Agree with a lot of the other comments that disagree with Keenan. It's either my partner and I try to figure it out ourselves the best we can until the coach gets to us, or we don't get to practice the technique at all. I can also ask a higher belt to the left of me who's done this technique 3 times this week already, and I can get some feedback that way. Pretty basic stuff for a class setting.
respectfully, don't agree with this one keenan. we should all be able to learn from one another as in most cases we all have something to offer. ive gotten some of the best tips from random purple/brown belts who weren't running the class but just troubleshooting things with me while drilling.
Didn't Keenan also say that purple belts today are better/more knowledgeable than black belts of previous generations? You have to be a brown belt to do the drills correctly?
With that being said I think classes should be smaller if it’s 1 to 30 or more students then another assigned coach should be there to help
It happens in every class I teach 🤦🏽♂️
I think there are enough people here saying no Keenan. So moving on.
I disagree I am an experienced practitioner and always help my white and blue belt partners when their technique needs correction. Only things my coach has taught me himself
Last week we had a white belt started teaching a purple belt what to do. The purple belt purposely asks the white belt what to do as a way to be socially connect first, the white belt lacks social skills and never asks any questions. When it was time to roll, of course the white belt gets destroyed and he doesn't seem to be happy.
Viewers hate when you do this on UA-cam
Sometimes it's just a small detail you or your training partner is missing and is trying to remember. it seems appropriate to offer some help if you know the answer
There is a difference between "coaching" and "helping".
I don't think Keenan is against helping people through instructions that have already been given. Like a white belt helping another white belt with a little tip with something that's already been taught. The problem, I think, is when someone with little or no experience starts taking it upon themselves to go around and start "coaching" others.
Yeah I get what you mean but do you know how frustrating it can be not knowing what to do and coach is on the other side only to luckily come to you and spend 30 secs of fixing one part. In that time your partner who isn't perfect but at least can help with something -.-
I disrespectfully disagree with this take.
Anyone who gets butthurt over this has gotta be those dudes that think they can teach when they had a couple of weeks of training when they were white belts but actually sucked so bad that when it's time to roll, they did these "mini seminars" to new white belts in the corner rather than proving that their theoritical knowledge actually works against resisting opponents 🤣
Its all about the subtle details…the secret sauce…you can drill a move 1000 times most of them wrong and finally make enough corrections and refinements to get it right or you can think out the subtle details in advance and only have to rep it 100 times to get it right…”a copy of a copy” of the details most likely could screw you up is what he is saying.
Why’s his head so big?
I disagree too many times the coach doesnt have time to instruct said 30 people and i have to end up helping them. So i dont know what your saying dude. Practicing the right move is important from the getgo i get that but learning something over nothing is better imo
Every school has these guys. It’s inevitable.
Yeah. This sounds nice but I can’t even tell you how many bjj classes I’ve been to where the teacher hasn’t said shit to me the entire time. They’ll give an example and then disappear.
This kind of talk in the comments shows how fucking childish and clueless people can be sometimes.
Can't take constructive criticism?
The first stripe I got was right after I taught the elbow escape to a day 1 white belt. Some coaches like it.
I understand this but throughout my 4 years training the black belt coach taught the techniques and the blues, purples, and browns helped me work out the details.
This is terrible advice
I digress. I help all the time and it is never a problem. When the teacher shows a particular move, one that I have understood completely, if I see someone beside me that is struggling because he forgot to hold the opponents collar real tight, why wouldn't I tell him. They would do the same for me. As long as it is friendly and spot on. Why not?
As long as it sticks to that one single move the teacher is trying to explain, I honestly don't see why not. I for one love when somebody helps me on those situations.
Yep, concur. The instructor can't be everywhere in a big class.
The move has 5 components : gripping the leg is one of them. Guy doesn’t grab the leg . So I tell him the move is to also grab the leg . Is that bad too?
Ur kid of killing my spirit here
Kid asks me “what did you just do?” Of course I will show him and tell him the name of the move. I don’t gv a fk what the coach thinks.
I understand your position from both sides. I'm an instructor for a couple other martial art styles and have had to correct issues students had with some techniques because they learned from another student that didn't fully understand the technique. I'm also new to BJJ and was training a technique in class last night regarding the turtle position. My partner and I were offering feedback to each other on how the technique felt. The idea was break the posture first so if either he or I didn't feel that our turtle posture was being broken or offset then we would let each other know so we could adjust our top position. I don't think we were trying to teach each other, but rather help each other figure the position that worked for each of us.
You say you have 30 students and 1 coach. if the coach is on the other side of the room, by the time he gets to the students , the time for reps would be done twice over. Most gyms I've trained with distributes experienced students to the less experienced ones for obvious reasons.
So, paying students aren't good enough to teach other students. You have to wait for the all-knowing, all-powerful instructor to saunter over and give you the secrets. There's no benefit that can be derived from a non-instructor teaching students.
Question, at what point does the instructor become an instructor?
Disagree. Sometimes people forget basics steps or do things wildly wrong (like applying pressure in completely the wrong direction). It's definitely adding information to correct that. We've all experienced the know-it-all fake coaches but this is just way too broad to the point that it's a little silly.
What’s your recommendation when your partner is drilling the technique wrong? Don’t say anything, do your drilling and let him continued doing it wrong? Sincerely asking..
So having or not having a "coach" tag is what makes somebody be or be not able to transmit information? Hmm..
Don't take on more student's than you can teach. It sucks to get no help. When one coach is one butter knife full of peanut butter how many slices can he/she cover?
What is the point of belts if this is true. Higher belts teach lower this has always been the way
The way I get better at jiu jitsu is by making my training partners worse, sir.
Unfortunately, some coaches show up to teach 15 minutes of technique at the beginning of class and then disengage for the last 45 minutes while everyone is training/sparring.
My wife and I stopped going to a school like this, we refer to them as the poorly run public school of jiu jitsu
This coach has an ego. Big red flag 🚩
Such a dumb advice, pardon me my frank words. I've been told many times that I tought valuable stuff to people, or even helped them to get the belt (not my words). The coach also doesn't seem to care much, and rightly so. As there is variation to the knowledge of the teachers, there is variation to the level and knowledge of the students. I even have been told by some coaches they learn from me. And I am not even a well known BJJ practitioner.
This is the wrong answer. I usually agree with your takes. This one just doesnt make sense. All the reasons have already been identified.
I just reiterate what coach said a minute before and always give reference to which coach or source of info whenever I share opinion of partners’ techniques
Kinda agree, but the truth is: most people with brains and some social skills, even without knowing jiu jitsu, will learn quickly who knows, who think it knows and who's pretending to know.
There's a middle ground here. Especially if you are actually talking about an upper brown belt or so helping out their white belt partner.
For sure!!!
i only insist on things that if my coach came over he would be like "yes i agree because thats what i say" hahahha
You have to have a high level coach to be proud about that tho..
I can see some coaches instilling less than confidence in their students..
Not everyone can be a world class athlete and not every gym is gonna be run by a mendez brother, or firas.. maybe a machado, because they are everywhere...
Weve all gotta grow together in a competitive sport, and that imitates real life and que the endless philosophical nonsense we distract ourselves with til our time is up and its someone elses time to rummage through the muck of subjective existence..
Learn, unlearn, re learn, bah!
Just make sure you are light hearted and funny about this, make people feel ashamed about doing it and correct those giving bad advice and let the world turn..
I’m a black belt and I still don’t do this ! My professor is the teacher not me. I am always gonna be the student
Louder for people in the back Keenan!
My previous coach just stayed on Instagram and put pics up of himself all over the gym. I left.
@hard2hurt