That actually makes a lot of sense about the fact that if the CPU is busy then ram speed won't really matter as much. It's kind of like the fact that it doesn't matter how fast people in the queue move at the DMV, because it's more about how fast the person behind counter can work.
@@gunsunnuva8346 I dunno, maybe I'm lucky but I have no problem running Windows 23 with 384 TB of RAM. Yes, the AI companion dips from time to time (couple ms lag to couple 100ms), but I can live with that.
The Nvidia 21690 I use has a min required 3KW. I think, it's more than sufficient for COD 69... However, opinion is the larger cards give 1000 more FPS...
...what's available, on sale... If you go with an AM5 System and DDR5-6400 is on sale and DDR5-6000 is the same price or more, go for the 6400 Kit (in my Case: CL32).
What speed of ram should I get. "it depends" "depends on what?.." "use case..." yeah if someone answered with just "it depends" and doesn't explain and actually answer my question, I stop talking to them and find someone else to help lol I don't deal well with utter incompetence.
@@dmhzmxn No, Situation in the store. If DDR5-6400 CL32 is the cheapest and DDR5-5600 is just 10€ less, you get the 6400 CL32. You don't get a DDR5-4800, 5200 or 5600 for 90-95€ when you can get 6400 CL32 for 105€. (Mindfactory right now) That is what it depends on
"It depends on your use case and budget and what you care about" is the correct answer. I have to add "what you care about" because if you just don't care about the numbers from those +benefits in certain use cases, Then the rest is moot lol
latency tends to be an issue in games like Dwarf Fortress and the like (Rimworld, Stellaris, etc), there's so much being kept track of that the amount of time the CPU spends talking with the RAM can actually build up and make an impact. In those situations it's not FPS but ticks per second.
please make a LTT video on pc servicing and maintainence which is very much needed to the average user who has to do it on their own , this include proper gpu cleaning with changing thermal pads ,thermal paste , cleaning the fans and heatsink by removing all the screws possible ( you can include this in advanced cleaning) , cleaning all the case fans , cleaning psu , cable manage , etc ,etc , would also like to know how LTT maintains their pcs across their office ??
This would be amazing video, even something longer for main channel. Something you could do regularly, with physical maintenance and maybe even software maintenance like updating, chkdsk and similar stuff that might be useful. Something you could watch every time you clean your PC like a checklist would be top notch.
For the average user? Clean dust filters. Ensure fans spin.... ...that's about it. You can air dust the inside if you want. No vacuum cleaner. Thermal paste and pads only if you're seeing issues or the paste is very old. Otherwise you won't see any improvement and you're risking damage. This is not a routine maintenance item unless you're an enthusiast. The average user will see no benefit unless parts are very old. As for software updates... Yes. Do them. Don't bother with anything else (like registry cleaning) unless you have problems as, once again, you're likely to create them. For the average user, there really isn't much to do and every time you poke around, you're risking ESD or just plain jabbing something with a screwdriver. It's fine if there's a need. The one thing the average user should do and never does? Back up. Sod the cleaning, the thermal paste, the drivers... Back it all up monthly. Image your drive or something.
@@blacklizt5658 Last year I splurged and got DDR5 RAM with a capable CPU and GPU to boot, and after building the PC I upgraded from back in about 2014 with the slowest DDR3, it's wild how much of a difference it can make.
Good video, but I'd love to know how DDR5 speeds affect other tasks like code compilation. Some languages' compilation pipeline involve more memory intensive tasks / data structures. For example, Rust needs to access a data structure to figure out stuff with its trait semantics and ownership, and JavaScript (although not compiled) involves a lot of runtime type-checking. Web DOM manipulation (especially in React apps) also requires a lot of non-contiguous memory access.
Simple: You should buy what's on sale/makes sense for you in that moment. I bought a 32GB Kit DDR5-6400 for my AM5 (7800X3D) because it made sense. As in: other kits wouldn't have been cheaper but worse. So I got that because it made sense at the moment.
The real answer in 2024 is whichever RAM is listed on the QVL from the motherboard manufacturer. Have had compatibility problems too many times in the last few years not to check.
So true on this - finding out to my cost whilst trying to repair / upgrade older PC's and sometimes with PC pre DDR-4 hard to find components that work and reliable, even if you get a part advertised as being cosher doesn't mean it it and will work reliable if the PC in Q - much to my %^%^^%^% being bit green - coming back (2005-6) after break into building / repairing PC's - learning the hard way as well.
People acting like they can't spare 10 to 15 dollars more to avoid headaches when overclocking that might cause crashes. Make sure your MB can handle the ram QVL. Get what's recommended. The best available to you
Yes, but "2. Memory modules listed below just for reference only. Considering multi variety memory models in market, we can only verify some of them." Not always are all modulöes on the list, even from the same brand. Sometimes certain seizes are left out but kits with same chips and timings but bigger / smaller RAM agree not on the list. You can use them as reference when they are not on the list.
@@shaggytoph You are very close! It stands for qualified vendor list. But as i've heard from overclockers (specifically Buildzoid from the channel Actually Hardcore Overclocking) , that only means minimal testing. But it is better than nothing.
Qualified Vendor Lists are obsolete by the time the board or processor comes out. Half or more of the items listed are no longer sold. A quarter more are not available in countries that aren’t in Asia. Leaving you with very few QVL options. Usually of a size and speed that isn’t acceptable. When my X470 motherboard came out, the largest ram stick on the QVL was 2GB. Meaning I could only have 8GB of RAM if I followed the QVL. Utter nonsense.
Yep it's been that way on AMD since the DDR3 days when I pushed the 32GB RAM paired with my A10 7870K APU OC @ 4.3 GHz to 2133MHz to squeeze every drop of performance I could out of that turd(still have it as a backup).
Was expecting some meaningful graphs to show the difference between the DDR5 speeds in different games/ programs but I guess a vague "more isn't always better unless you need it" is the best you guys can do
I’ve been a long time viewer, and I think that most of my PC knowledge, as well as general technology skills come from this channel. Certainly not all of my skills, but I think this channel has provided me an overview of most topics I’m interested in, anyone who agrees 👇
My current rig has pretty slow memory so even though I am saving up and decking out my new rig, pretty much any speed bump is gonna be a noticeable improvement 😅🤣
Lol. Plot hole. Apparently they were gonna explain where the 6000Mts number comes from after the sponsor. Did I miss it or did they forget to add that part in? For those that are interested: In traditional SDRAM (Singe Data Rate) data is transferred once per clock cycle. But in DDR RAM (Double Data Rate) data is transferred on both the up and down signals of the clock cycle. So DDR5 6000Mts RAM runs @ 3000Mhz but transfers data twice every cycle. So two transfers, 3 billion times a second. ie 6000 million transfers per second or 6000 Mega Transfers per second. Hence the rating 6000Mts. So to work out the memory bandwidth we need to know how many bits of information is transferred. Typically DDR4 and DDR5 use 64 bit data buses. So with each transfer 64bits can be transferred. So 64bits, 6000 million times per second. Which 384 billion bits per second (384Gbs). Then you get into Multi Channel memory configurations. Most commonly dual channel and quad channel on consumer boards. Each channel allows for simultaneous transfers different memory sticks. Thereby increasing the memory bandwidth. Dual channel doubles the bandwidth, quad channel quadruples it and so on. These days, servers use 8 channel and even 12 channel configurations for memory allowing for incredible amounts of memory bandwidth.
>Tasks like *AI* won't be affected too much by RAM speeds on modern systems Do you even know how it works? It essentially is just pumping gigabytes worth of data sequentially through a processing unit at least hundreds of times. It's all about memory speed. Unless I use i-Quants, my tokens/second are nearly always around file_size/memory_speed regardless if it's CPU or GPU.
For AM5 platform, my a home hobby pc builder that does tech support on friends hardware as well i recommend at least 6000mhz ddr5 ram, no less then 16gb but then add a upgrade for ram is likely needed within a year or 2 at best. My recently build personal rig uses Kingston Fury black 2x32gb on 6000mhz and its a great set👍🏻 not the cheapest but looks great in a machine and functions awesome on what i ask it todo in my daily pc use age 👍🏻👍🏻
does depend on why the cpu is busy. If it's using a bunch of cycles moving data in and out of ram to the disk/swap then adding more ram can help even with a pegged cpu.
i have 2x 16Gb DDR5 @ 6000Mhx, paired with my Ryzen 5 7600x and 1080 ti, felt 32gb was a good balance between minimum and overkill, 16gb in the past for me was barely not enough, its nice having the extra ram.
Ryzen 7000 gets a pretty decent boost with ram timing as well, this stacks with ram speed too. A lot of the 7000 series CPU's can easily hit 6000mhz, with many also being able to get 28-35-35-35 timing while doing it. FLCK overclocking also has a benefit but shines most on multi CCD skews.
It gets more complicated with AM5 platform now. It is still very young platform expected to last 4+ generations of processors where each processor is expected to support faster RAM than previous gen. So if you buy ram today for first gen AM5 processor you should take into account that the same RAM will be used by newer AM5 processors in the future, which will have higher RAM sweet spot than current AM5 gen.
Thank you for pointing out max memory speeds of current cpus. I will be honest I made a blunder with my new pc part order, ordering 6000 mhz ram for the 7800x3d but watched this video again just to make sure I was getting the right speed and realised I should get 5200 since you pointed it out.
No you shouldn’t get 5200 MT/s, that’s just the official maximum speed to insure stability. 6000 MT/s is very stable as well, but it might be a little less stable than 5200 MT/s. I guess it’s their way of saying “we don’t guarantee stability for anything above 5200MT/s you’re on your own if you have any issues”
Doing a PC build right now with 2 16GB Vengeance DDR5 6000 MHz RAM on a Ryzen 7 7700 CPU. Will not boot/post, DRAM red light on, ordered 2 Kingston fury 16GB DDR5 5200 MHz RAM (with the whole CPU supported speeds) hopefully using those I can get a POST then I’ll mess with the BIOS to see if the Vengeance will work
For DDR5 5200, 5400 is totally fine, 6000 seems to be the sweet spot and everything over that gives you slightly better numbers in some games but it's a 4090, you pay way more for a little more speed so to speak. Well depending on where you live of course. Generally; US = "cheap" and EU = very much Not cheap LoL. Oh and RAM that is faster than 6000Mt/s (and especially even faster than that) is generally not recomended if you don't have a motherboard + cpu combo that can handle it. Well, even then it's almost like the silicon lottery. Edit: Latency is good and all but when it comes to DDR5 speed is more important than Latency ( CL 32, 36, 40 etc... )
Ddr 3? Are you kidding dude that’s so fooking outdated it should be a crime . There is ddr4 which a lot of ppl are using and now ddr5 and you still on ddr 3 ? As ancient and slow like the dinasour
If you can reach that than back to 6000 with CL28 6000mhz cl30 is 10ns latency 6400mhz cl32 is 10ns latency 6000mhz cl28 is 9.33ns latency The goal of newer generations of ram is to increase speed, at a rate which latency decreases. Lower latency=better performance It is not a bigger number better kinda thing speed doesn't matter it's the latency which is important. If it was possible to get 2200mhz ram down to 5ns it would absolutely everything on the market. At the same time if one had 10,000mhz cl60 ram it would have a latency of 12 which is worse than 6000mhz cl30.
Memory bandwidth is the only thing holding ai on CPU back (not the compute power), so it is Crucial to have as much data throughput as possible (therefore fast memory), btw you can approximate the speed of a llm using the memory speed
Ok, this is just a techquickie, but still: - You cite AI workloads. AI training is likely to run on a dedicated GPU, and system RAM is there only to feed the VRAM in that case. If you use an NPU, though, or even integrated graphics, the system RAM throughputs contribute to feeding the processor with minibatches, so I guess you'd want good throughput there to get as close to VRAM as possible. - RAM latency and real-time audio. So, presumably the sound card will populate a buffer that lives in system RAM. Assuming that an audio buffer can stay within a modern processor's cache, the initial transfer will still carry a penalty of 10-18 ns depending on the memory timings. 8 ns isn't negligible when you're trying to meet a real-time latency of 2-3 milliseconds. I'd like this use case to receive a bit more airtime, as it's all but niche. Loads of people record stuff at home, and they struggle with crap latency and buffer underruns.
Slight correction: RAM speed 100% would make a difference in AI performance if you are trying to run a model too large to hold in VRAM (so you offload model weights to RAM). AI is already bottlenecked by GPU Memory bandwidth and not GPU compute. Since the GPU memory bandwidth is more than an order of magnitude faster than CPU RAM and it’s a bottleneck, offloading to said RAM will DEFINITELY be improved by improving the memory bandwidth.
Doesn't CUDA throw an exception if the entire model doesn't wholly fit in VRAM? Otherwise why the rush for high VRAM? OK, I'm assuming there have been ways around it (an AI version of ReBAR?). Still, bumping up the system RAM bandwidth wouldn't make a big difference for weights that go in and out of system RAM at a tenth of the speed they should have. Now, training data, that's another story. Faster RAM will get the minibatches to the GPU as quickly as needed. Although - PCIe bottleneck....?
I allways buy 1 step,up that the next cpu (intel) w I'll need as default, ie 6500, or 6300 ddr5. When ddr4 2133 was out I'd get 2666, next intel cpu was 2666 ram speed etc... At least when your re use your ram, on next upgrade, your faster ram will run default on next cpu. (When first 2nd and 3gen ram speeds come out.)
This is not how it works where I live. The cheapest DDR5 kits are 6000 Mhz. You go below that and the prices starts to go up. The price between a CAS 30 and CAS 40 is 10 bucks. If I would buy more capacity the cost is almost double so that is not an option.So even though I for instance plan to do a build with an 13600 K the cheapest RAM is a 6000 Mhz kit, even if it is too fast 5:04 for the CPU I am willing to spend 10 bucks to get a latency of 30. It is just 0.6 % of total build cost. If I at some point want to upgrade my CPU to a 14th gen I can still benefit from my current RAM kit. It is also more likely that I will find the same kit if I want to increase the capacity. For time being I can set the speed to 5600 if I want to play safe. I do not even need to set any XMP profile as it has marginal effect on my gaming at least.
I built my new DDR5 system a few months ago and i lost the silicon lottery hardcore. Did my research and got a 6000mhz cl36 kit to go with a ryzen 7600, but i had big stability issues until i turned off EXPO. I am running at 5600mhz now without any issues (except for losing out on potential performance)
long story short: ONLY use 2x sticks, no more, no less DDR5 6000 MT/s or 6200 MT/s = sweetspot for AM5 DDR5 6400 MT/s and above = LGA1700 Cas Latency matters little in the vast majority of cases. It's best to opt for Hynix die (be it A or M, although most recently manufactured kits should have A-die) especially if you're looking to overclock. Subtimings are the real difference maker when it comes to real-world performance in tasks like video games, where as the low% performance can very well go up by 10% with that bit of tweaking. I myself am running the basic timings by buildzoid which thus far worked fantastic (albeit at the cost of slow bootup times due to DDR5 being a pain with memory training)
However, if I wanted 128 GB of RAM, I needed to plug four modules into the mainboard, right? That setup would not be soley for gaming purposes btw. Would you expect problems with such a configuration?
@@Charles_Bro-son Typically AMD is harder to make 4 modules at high speeds work properly. From what I've seen I think 6000 is perfectly usable for both platforms right now.
I noticed a difference just overclocking my current ram. It's 64gb of (16gb x 4) DDR5-5600MT/s CL32 @ 1.1v, however, I have it overclocked and tightened the timings to 6200MT/s CL28 @ 1.35v. The responsiveness is a noticeable difference between the 2 speeds. This is paired with my 13600k @ 5.5ghz all p-cores, and 4.4ghz all e-cores, with a 4.9ghz ring cache.
The silicone lottery doesn't last forever. I have an Intel i7-9700K CPU, and its rated speed is 4600MHz. For the first few years it stayed around 4800, but after keeping it at 100% power through Windows power management, it's starting to slow down and now hovers somewhere around 4600. So the lottery was in my favor for awhile, but it doesn't last forever.
Dont blame you, i went from 3 to 5. 4 is still good. Just a warning though, the beginning of a RAM generation kinda sucks, DDR5 doesnt handle quad channel very well and i havent seen a kit that can get quad channel at full speeds. So just plan on getting 2 high capacity sticks. DDR5 is also is apparently more fragile and you have to be more mindful when putting them in the PC, im going to guess that ddr6 will be even moreso.
I'm fairly certain that I would NEVER notice any difference between my 2.6Ghz DDR4 RAM and any other speed of DDR5 RAM. And I imagine that 99% of normal everyday PC users would never notice a difference either
@@RafaMazurekRMZ Really? That's interesting. So, you've got more out of better memory than moving from a HDD to SSD or moving from 8GB RAM to 16GB of RAM or 32GB etc? Performance varying really is true ! :)
@@Phil_AKA_ThundyUK the biggest gain is memory latency both at cache on cpu side and dram side. Staying on hdd is fine. There are ppl that for factorio benchmark dowclocks memory to something stupid like 800mhz and put clock so tight that its benefitial overall
Wish you would address about using 4 dimms. Alot of people seems to discourage from using 4pcs. But how bad is it really? Especially when "speed" is less important for x3d chips for example.
What about a video on memory swap? I am using Linux Mint and noticed on my "task manager" with the RAM usage graph, there is a second line called swap. I looked into it and learned it was just taking some of my storage, which I have a lot of, and using it like RAM when my real RAM overflows. Kinda cool, and potentially very useful for someone with low amount of RAM. While of coarse it's nowhere near the speed of real RAM, it could save your bacon in a particular situation. Also, apparently you can do it in windows, and presumably macOS, so that's cool. For no reason whatsoever, I have my swap file set to 64 GB. On top of my 24 GB real RAM (one of my 8GB sticks went and corrupted itself).
I wish we had more tests on AMD with 6000 Vs 8000.. I have a 6000kit oc to 8000.. I don't see too much but I get extra write and read.. so I guess is good 😂
buying fast ram is a waste of money. i bought ram rated at 7600, the motherboard supports 7800, but she dont clock higher than 5800, even on a single stick. try to refund the ram for false advertising? well sorry the cpu only supports 5600 so we dont cover anything higher.
I've got a laptop that will regularly not turn on. Removing the battery and discharging the static build up works but not consistently. Could you do a tech quickie on why this happens and if one can fix it?
Short question - does intel integrated graphics work on 6000? Context for my question: Intels integrated graphics is really helpful for video editing thanks to quick sync. But currently I am using i7 6700k and ddr4 memory with 2800 xmp profile. But as soon I am activating integrated graphics in bios - I am getting bsods. When I am dropping memory frequency to 2133 (which is listed in intel ark as standard) - it seems to work fine. For newer ddr5 processors - it is listed 4800 as standard, so again, will the iGPU work if I go higher? Thanks in advance.
6000 cl30. If you are lucky ypu can overclock to 6400 or even 6600 on 1:1 mode on amd. I'm currently running 6400 cl30 myself and gonna attempt 6600 soon
DDR5 32GB with CAS lower than 40 is expensive around 118$ and above.. can you make recommendation an ideal CAS latency for AMD AM5 system? R5 7500F with MSI PRO B650M-A Wifi DDR5
This is probably a me issue, but Every single time I’ve tried to enable higher RAM speeds, its has always caused issues. Crashes, blue screens and general instability every time with every computer I’ve ever used. Ive just decided the default speed is good enough and i get way more capacity instead. Currently running 64gb with two sticks, so i can go to 128gb when i get some extra money.
Me: 7950x3d w/ 128gb ddr5 6000 stable factory timing Vid: explaining ram sweet spots Me: wonder if they know 4 dimms on ryzen does not like expo above 5600
How about a "Dummies Guide to CAMM2 and CUDIMM" that's coming with Arrow Lake? I wanna pretend to know what in the hell they are and impress all my gaming buddies!
the last sentence was elite imagine having 8 monitors if 16GB ram is utilized in windows ca 90% with iGPU i think for gaming you will have to think about 256GB cause it is not just the game you are running also ram usage depends on the platform
I have a question about this, I have Kingston FURY DDR5 32 GB kit that runs on 6000 CL36 and I'm not a huge fps gamer, I prefer RPGs and slower games in general, would there be any benefit for me from switching to a 6000 CL30 kit?
Always get the fastest, most expensive bleeding edge so you can be an unpaid tester and make things cheaper for me.
But then the manufacturers will see all that demand and then know they can charge more 🤢🤢
If you think you are gonna get anything relevant for 'cheap' from these manufacturers then you might as well just use an abacus.
Yeah lol wish it worked that way
hell yeah
@DragonOfTheMortalKombat it does. It's such a bad time to build a PC right now. GTA6 comes out on PC in two years.
That actually makes a lot of sense about the fact that if the CPU is busy then ram speed won't really matter as much.
It's kind of like the fact that it doesn't matter how fast people in the queue move at the DMV, because it's more about how fast the person behind counter can work.
Late to the party...
Perfect analogy 🏆
Good analogy my friend. 👌
Awesome explanation
The only thing faster than my RAM is how fast I die in battle royales
Relatable
I take too long to die and never kill anyone, its like 10 minutes running with friends only to be one shot suddenly
Same but on phone
Yep
Because you’re noob
My DDR8 is still rocking since I bought it in 2049, 3 years old now. Not gonna upgrade to DDR9 yet, it has stability issues they say.
im still running 24gbs of camm3 and i dont think its necessary to switch to camm5 yet
Yeah, DDR8 is honestly still the way to go, as long as you have 512 TB of it at an absolute minimum.
@@gunsunnuva8346 I dunno, maybe I'm lucky but I have no problem running Windows 23 with 384 TB of RAM. Yes, the AI companion dips from time to time (couple ms lag to couple 100ms), but I can live with that.
So hows the Nvidia AIX 22690 super running? I heard it needs 5kw
The Nvidia 21690 I use has a min required 3KW. I think, it's more than sufficient for COD 69... However, opinion is the larger cards give 1000 more FPS...
"The answer to your question is so simple that it's only two words: 'It depends.'"
the holy answer of all questions
...what's available, on sale...
If you go with an AM5 System and DDR5-6400 is on sale and DDR5-6000 is the same price or more, go for the 6400 Kit (in my Case: CL32).
What speed of ram should I get.
"it depends"
"depends on what?.."
"use case..."
yeah if someone answered with just "it depends" and doesn't explain and actually answer my question, I stop talking to them and find someone else to help lol
I don't deal well with utter incompetence.
@@dmhzmxn No, Situation in the store.
If DDR5-6400 CL32 is the cheapest and DDR5-5600 is just 10€ less, you get the 6400 CL32. You don't get a DDR5-4800, 5200 or 5600 for 90-95€ when you can get 6400 CL32 for 105€. (Mindfactory right now)
That is what it depends on
"It depends on your use case and budget and what you care about" is the correct answer.
I have to add "what you care about" because if you just don't care about the numbers from those +benefits in certain use cases, Then the rest is moot lol
latency tends to be an issue in games like Dwarf Fortress and the like (Rimworld, Stellaris, etc), there's so much being kept track of that the amount of time the CPU spends talking with the RAM can actually build up and make an impact. In those situations it's not FPS but ticks per second.
please make a LTT video on pc servicing and maintainence which is very much needed to the average user who has to do it on their own , this include proper gpu cleaning with changing thermal pads ,thermal paste , cleaning the fans and heatsink by removing all the screws possible ( you can include this in advanced cleaning) , cleaning all the case fans , cleaning psu , cable manage , etc ,etc , would also like to know how LTT maintains their pcs across their office ??
This would be amazing video, even something longer for main channel. Something you could do regularly, with physical maintenance and maybe even software maintenance like updating, chkdsk and similar stuff that might be useful. Something you could watch every time you clean your PC like a checklist would be top notch.
For the average user? Clean dust filters. Ensure fans spin....
...that's about it. You can air dust the inside if you want. No vacuum cleaner.
Thermal paste and pads only if you're seeing issues or the paste is very old. Otherwise you won't see any improvement and you're risking damage. This is not a routine maintenance item unless you're an enthusiast. The average user will see no benefit unless parts are very old.
As for software updates... Yes. Do them. Don't bother with anything else (like registry cleaning) unless you have problems as, once again, you're likely to create them.
For the average user, there really isn't much to do and every time you poke around, you're risking ESD or just plain jabbing something with a screwdriver. It's fine if there's a need.
The one thing the average user should do and never does? Back up. Sod the cleaning, the thermal paste, the drivers... Back it all up monthly. Image your drive or something.
UFD Tech has some videos on computer maintenance. You should check his channel out and search his channel for maintenance.
I think this would be great with the LTT Team having a bit of fun with it too!
Finally i did transition from DDR3 to DDR4 🎉
I recently upgraded from DDR3 to DDR5 😆
@@blacklizt5658 Last year I splurged and got DDR5 RAM with a capable CPU and GPU to boot, and after building the PC I upgraded from back in about 2014 with the slowest DDR3, it's wild how much of a difference it can make.
jumped straight to DDR5 from DDR3, and like 8 gens of Intel Core.
Surprisingly, not that big a jump in user experience for the most part.
At least you got to try DDR5 😁
I upgraded from DDR4 to DDR4
Good video, but I'd love to know how DDR5 speeds affect other tasks like code compilation. Some languages' compilation pipeline involve more memory intensive tasks / data structures. For example, Rust needs to access a data structure to figure out stuff with its trait semantics and ownership, and JavaScript (although not compiled) involves a lot of runtime type-checking. Web DOM manipulation (especially in React apps) also requires a lot of non-contiguous memory access.
This is too technical of a task for LTT to perform, they mostly look at gaming.
I'm curious about this too. Might be a niche market to start making videos for
Simple:
You should buy what's on sale/makes sense for you in that moment.
I bought a 32GB Kit DDR5-6400 for my AM5 (7800X3D) because it made sense.
As in: other kits wouldn't have been cheaper but worse.
So I got that because it made sense at the moment.
And what kit did you got,,,link?
The real answer in 2024 is whichever RAM is listed on the QVL from the motherboard manufacturer. Have had compatibility problems too many times in the last few years not to check.
the reason my framework 16 has 5600 :)
So true on this - finding out to my cost whilst trying to repair / upgrade older PC's and sometimes with PC pre DDR-4 hard to find components that work and reliable, even if you get a part advertised as being cosher doesn't mean it it and will work reliable if the PC in Q - much to my %^%^^%^% being bit green - coming back (2005-6) after break into building / repairing PC's - learning the hard way as well.
Cheapest 32GB DDR5 kit I can buy is $75 while it's $85 for 6000MHz with a CL of 30, definitely worth the $10.
People acting like they can't spare 10 to 15 dollars more to avoid headaches when overclocking that might cause crashes. Make sure your MB can handle the ram QVL. Get what's recommended. The best available to you
Thank You! I was actually thinking about buying some soon
QVL lists exist for a reason. Buy a kit that’s on your MOBO QVL list. If you don’t then it’s on you. They did the leg work of validating those kits.
Yes, but
"2. Memory modules listed below just for reference only. Considering multi variety memory models in market, we can only verify some of them."
Not always are all modulöes on the list, even from the same brand.
Sometimes certain seizes are left out but kits with same chips and timings but bigger / smaller RAM agree not on the list.
You can use them as reference when they are not on the list.
what's QVL, quality verified list? the ones that the MOBO lists? those tend to be outdated rams
@@shaggytoph You are very close! It stands for qualified vendor list. But as i've heard from overclockers (specifically Buildzoid from the channel Actually Hardcore Overclocking) , that only means minimal testing. But it is better than nothing.
@@shaggytoph QVL stands for "Qualified Vendor List", and yes, it's exactly what you wrote.
Qualified Vendor Lists are obsolete by the time the board or processor comes out. Half or more of the items listed are no longer sold. A quarter more are not available in countries that aren’t in Asia. Leaving you with very few QVL options. Usually of a size and speed that isn’t acceptable. When my X470 motherboard came out, the largest ram stick on the QVL was 2GB. Meaning I could only have 8GB of RAM if I followed the QVL. Utter nonsense.
You failed to mention APU benefits with high speed Ram
Yep it's been that way on AMD since the DDR3 days when I pushed the 32GB RAM paired with my A10 7870K APU OC @ 4.3 GHz to 2133MHz to squeeze every drop of performance I could out of that turd(still have it as a backup).
Was expecting some meaningful graphs to show the difference between the DDR5 speeds in different games/ programs but I guess a vague "more isn't always better unless you need it" is the best you guys can do
Well, the channel is called techQUICKIE for a reason.
LTT is an ad network. If you want useful information Hardware Unboxed and GamersNexus should be where you go.
I’ve been a long time viewer, and I think that most of my PC knowledge, as well as general technology skills come from this channel.
Certainly not all of my skills, but I think this channel has provided me an overview of most topics I’m interested in, anyone who agrees 👇
My current rig has pretty slow memory so even though I am saving up and decking out my new rig, pretty much any speed bump is gonna be a noticeable improvement 😅🤣
Lol. Plot hole. Apparently they were gonna explain where the 6000Mts number comes from after the sponsor. Did I miss it or did they forget to add that part in?
For those that are interested:
In traditional SDRAM (Singe Data Rate) data is transferred once per clock cycle.
But in DDR RAM (Double Data Rate) data is transferred on both the up and down signals of the clock cycle.
So DDR5 6000Mts RAM runs @ 3000Mhz but transfers data twice every cycle. So two transfers, 3 billion times a second. ie 6000 million transfers per second or 6000 Mega Transfers per second. Hence the rating 6000Mts.
So to work out the memory bandwidth we need to know how many bits of information is transferred.
Typically DDR4 and DDR5 use 64 bit data buses. So with each transfer 64bits can be transferred. So 64bits, 6000 million times per second. Which 384 billion bits per second (384Gbs).
Then you get into Multi Channel memory configurations. Most commonly dual channel and quad channel on consumer boards. Each channel allows for simultaneous transfers different memory sticks. Thereby increasing the memory bandwidth. Dual channel doubles the bandwidth, quad channel quadruples it and so on.
These days, servers use 8 channel and even 12 channel configurations for memory allowing for incredible amounts of memory bandwidth.
The sweet spot for AMD is 6000 CL30, while for Intel it is 6400 CL32. Both are 10ns latency.
>Tasks like *AI* won't be affected too much by RAM speeds on modern systems
Do you even know how it works?
It essentially is just pumping gigabytes worth of data sequentially through a processing unit at least hundreds of times. It's all about memory speed. Unless I use i-Quants, my tokens/second are nearly always around file_size/memory_speed regardless if it's CPU or GPU.
The Silicon Power XPOWER Zenith Gaming 32 GB kit is a beast!!!
For AM5 platform, my a home hobby pc builder that does tech support on friends hardware as well i recommend at least 6000mhz ddr5 ram, no less then 16gb but then add a upgrade for ram is likely needed within a year or 2 at best.
My recently build personal rig uses Kingston Fury black 2x32gb on 6000mhz and its a great set👍🏻 not the cheapest but looks great in a machine and functions awesome on what i ask it todo in my daily pc use age 👍🏻👍🏻
does depend on why the cpu is busy. If it's using a bunch of cycles moving data in and out of ram to the disk/swap then adding more ram can help even with a pegged cpu.
i have 2x 16Gb DDR5 @ 6000Mhx, paired with my Ryzen 5 7600x and 1080 ti, felt 32gb was a good balance between minimum and overkill, 16gb in the past for me was barely not enough, its nice having the extra ram.
Ryzen 7000 gets a pretty decent boost with ram timing as well, this stacks with ram speed too.
A lot of the 7000 series CPU's can easily hit 6000mhz, with many also being able to get 28-35-35-35 timing while doing it.
FLCK overclocking also has a benefit but shines most on multi CCD skews.
It gets more complicated with AM5 platform now.
It is still very young platform expected to last 4+ generations of processors where each processor is expected to support faster RAM than previous gen.
So if you buy ram today for first gen AM5 processor you should take into account that the same RAM will be used by newer AM5 processors in the future, which will have higher RAM sweet spot than current AM5 gen.
When recently buying ram for a new system, I was confused why the builder was suggesting 6000 when the system says it only supports 5200.
The fastest possible ram is most important, my Windows Word is running so hardcore, well worth it.
Thank you for pointing out max memory speeds of current cpus. I will be honest I made a blunder with my new pc part order, ordering 6000 mhz ram for the 7800x3d but watched this video again just to make sure I was getting the right speed and realised I should get 5200 since you pointed it out.
No you shouldn’t get 5200 MT/s, that’s just the official maximum speed to insure stability. 6000 MT/s is very stable as well, but it might be a little less stable than 5200 MT/s. I guess it’s their way of saying “we don’t guarantee stability for anything above 5200MT/s you’re on your own if you have any issues”
Doing a PC build right now with 2 16GB Vengeance DDR5 6000 MHz RAM on a Ryzen 7 7700 CPU. Will not boot/post, DRAM red light on, ordered 2 Kingston fury 16GB DDR5 5200 MHz RAM (with the whole CPU supported speeds) hopefully using those I can get a POST then I’ll mess with the BIOS to see if the Vengeance will work
good info for people with 12 gen i5 that don't necessarily need faster speeds, I got mine with DDR4
3666MT CL16 on DDR4, 6000MT CL30 on DDR5 for now.
it's 3800 cl16 and 6400 cl32 in fact! And for the AMD's APUs it's 4000 cl16 and 7200 cl the lower the better LOL
Na ddr4 was 3200 the famous speed
RAM speed is most important in APU builds, its the only case where 8000MT/s and higher RAM make sense.
So that shit has created his new UA-cam channel, now i have subscribed to this!
Megatransfers per second!?😮
I called it millitransfers per second this entire time, i learned something new today thanks.😅
For DDR5 5200, 5400 is totally fine, 6000 seems to be the sweet spot and everything over that gives you slightly better numbers in some games but it's a 4090, you pay way more for a little more speed so to speak. Well depending on where you live of course. Generally; US = "cheap" and EU = very much Not cheap LoL.
Oh and RAM that is faster than 6000Mt/s (and especially even faster than that) is generally not recomended if you don't have a motherboard + cpu combo that can handle it.
Well, even then it's almost like the silicon lottery.
Edit: Latency is good and all but when it comes to DDR5 speed is more important than Latency ( CL 32, 36, 40 etc... )
Thanks for the video!
As a ddr 3 user I have a hard time seeing the value of overclocking ddr5 20%.
Ddr 3? Are you kidding dude that’s so fooking outdated it should be a crime . There is ddr4 which a lot of ppl are using and now ddr5 and you still on ddr 3 ? As ancient and slow like the dinasour
@@carljcmjk8609different use cases lol they weren't complaining about their setup with their comment 👀 it's probably enough for what they need
bro what?? Are you comparing 20% from DDR3 era to 20% from DDR5 era? Like, did you forget to turn ON your brain??
As a ddr2 user same
@@iliketurtles50000 poor thing you will never ever really experience something smooth and fast
got 6400 cl32 it will be blazing fast for the next decade
If you can reach that than back to 6000 with CL28
6000mhz cl30 is 10ns latency
6400mhz cl32 is 10ns latency
6000mhz cl28 is 9.33ns latency
The goal of newer generations of ram is to increase speed, at a rate which latency decreases.
Lower latency=better performance
It is not a bigger number better kinda thing speed doesn't matter it's the latency which is important. If it was possible to get 2200mhz ram down to 5ns it would absolutely everything on the market. At the same time if one had 10,000mhz cl60 ram it would have a latency of 12 which is worse than 6000mhz cl30.
If there's ever another LTT roast I want it to be known that it absolutely grinds my gears how this guy says PROcessors
Considering that's how much of the world says it, it wouldn't be much of a roast.
That is the way we pronounce it in the UK.
@@ebridgewateryou pronounce a lot of things wrong. Also spell them incorrectly as well. And then there’s the high usage of the “c” word 😂
You say it like "praahhh cessor" ? 😂
Memory bandwidth is the only thing holding ai on CPU back (not the compute power), so it is Crucial to have as much data throughput as possible (therefore fast memory), btw you can approximate the speed of a llm using the memory speed
Ok, this is just a techquickie, but still:
- You cite AI workloads. AI training is likely to run on a dedicated GPU, and system RAM is there only to feed the VRAM in that case. If you use an NPU, though, or even integrated graphics, the system RAM throughputs contribute to feeding the processor with minibatches, so I guess you'd want good throughput there to get as close to VRAM as possible.
- RAM latency and real-time audio. So, presumably the sound card will populate a buffer that lives in system RAM. Assuming that an audio buffer can stay within a modern processor's cache, the initial transfer will still carry a penalty of 10-18 ns depending on the memory timings. 8 ns isn't negligible when you're trying to meet a real-time latency of 2-3 milliseconds. I'd like this use case to receive a bit more airtime, as it's all but niche. Loads of people record stuff at home, and they struggle with crap latency and buffer underruns.
Slight correction:
RAM speed 100% would make a difference in AI performance if you are trying to run a model too large to hold in VRAM (so you offload model weights to RAM). AI is already bottlenecked by GPU Memory bandwidth and not GPU compute. Since the GPU memory bandwidth is more than an order of magnitude faster than CPU RAM and it’s a bottleneck, offloading to said RAM will DEFINITELY be improved by improving the memory bandwidth.
Doesn't CUDA throw an exception if the entire model doesn't wholly fit in VRAM? Otherwise why the rush for high VRAM?
OK, I'm assuming there have been ways around it (an AI version of ReBAR?). Still, bumping up the system RAM bandwidth wouldn't make a big difference for weights that go in and out of system RAM at a tenth of the speed they should have.
Now, training data, that's another story. Faster RAM will get the minibatches to the GPU as quickly as needed. Although - PCIe bottleneck....?
I allways buy 1 step,up that the next cpu (intel) w I'll need as default, ie 6500, or 6300 ddr5.
When ddr4 2133 was out I'd get 2666, next intel cpu was 2666 ram speed etc...
At least when your re use your ram, on next upgrade, your faster ram will run default on next cpu.
(When first 2nd and 3gen ram speeds come out.)
That feeling when 8000Mhz RAM exists, but my old-ass motherboard only supports up to 2666Mhz... 😥
This is not how it works where I live. The cheapest DDR5 kits are 6000 Mhz. You go below that and the prices starts to go up. The price between a CAS 30 and CAS 40 is 10 bucks. If I would buy more capacity the cost is almost double so that is not an option.So even though I for instance plan to do a build with an 13600 K the cheapest RAM is a 6000 Mhz kit, even if it is too fast 5:04 for the CPU I am willing to spend 10 bucks to get a latency of 30. It is just 0.6 % of total build cost. If I at some point want to upgrade my CPU to a 14th gen I can still benefit from my current RAM kit. It is also more likely that I will find the same kit if I want to increase the capacity. For time being I can set the speed to 5600 if I want to play safe. I do not even need to set any XMP profile as it has marginal effect on my gaming at least.
I built my new DDR5 system a few months ago and i lost the silicon lottery hardcore. Did my research and got a 6000mhz cl36 kit to go with a ryzen 7600, but i had big stability issues until i turned off EXPO. I am running at 5600mhz now without any issues (except for losing out on potential performance)
Oh I guess this was meant to come out last week or weekend.
long story short:
ONLY use 2x sticks, no more, no less
DDR5 6000 MT/s or 6200 MT/s = sweetspot for AM5
DDR5 6400 MT/s and above = LGA1700
Cas Latency matters little in the vast majority of cases. It's best to opt for Hynix die (be it A or M, although most recently manufactured kits should have A-die) especially if you're looking to overclock.
Subtimings are the real difference maker when it comes to real-world performance in tasks like video games, where as the low% performance can very well go up by 10% with that bit of tweaking.
I myself am running the basic timings by buildzoid which thus far worked fantastic (albeit at the cost of slow bootup times due to DDR5 being a pain with memory training)
However, if I wanted 128 GB of RAM, I needed to plug four modules into the mainboard, right? That setup would not be soley for gaming purposes btw. Would you expect problems with such a configuration?
@@Charles_Bro-son Typically AMD is harder to make 4 modules at high speeds work properly. From what I've seen I think 6000 is perfectly usable for both platforms right now.
I noticed a difference just overclocking my current ram. It's 64gb of (16gb x 4) DDR5-5600MT/s CL32 @ 1.1v, however, I have it overclocked and tightened the timings to 6200MT/s CL28 @ 1.35v. The responsiveness is a noticeable difference between the 2 speeds. This is paired with my 13600k @ 5.5ghz all p-cores, and 4.4ghz all e-cores, with a 4.9ghz ring cache.
ddr5 8400 cl38 with the 8700g gives very similar performance as the rx 6500xt with the igpu for more then double the cost so thats why its worth it
When it comes to gaming it is only importent that your system is better than your friends systems.
Only better is better here
The silicone lottery doesn't last forever. I have an Intel i7-9700K CPU, and its rated speed is 4600MHz. For the first few years it stayed around 4800, but after keeping it at 100% power through Windows power management, it's starting to slow down and now hovers somewhere around 4600. So the lottery was in my favor for awhile, but it doesn't last forever.
I might skip this generation. Meet me at ddr6
Alright, I will.
Dont blame you, i went from 3 to 5. 4 is still good. Just a warning though, the beginning of a RAM generation kinda sucks, DDR5 doesnt handle quad channel very well and i havent seen a kit that can get quad channel at full speeds. So just plan on getting 2 high capacity sticks. DDR5 is also is apparently more fragile and you have to be more mindful when putting them in the PC, im going to guess that ddr6 will be even moreso.
I'm fairly certain that I would NEVER notice any difference between my 2.6Ghz DDR4 RAM and any other speed of DDR5 RAM. And I imagine that 99% of normal everyday PC users would never notice a difference either
Here am I on DDR3 3200Mhz 32GB. I will upgrade, obviously when I get my my new CPU.
It’s to bad IFixit can’t tune sub timings. That’s where you get your gains.
This was actually a useful video. 6000 it is.
0:09 holy shyte, and I'm the only one rocking DDR6?
you keep on dancing you special sun beam
Memory is the last thing you should upgrade in my experience if you're talking performance. Speed that is, not amount.
From my expiriance its other way around (economy games), so it depends
@@RafaMazurekRMZ Really? That's interesting. So, you've got more out of better memory than moving from a HDD to SSD or moving from 8GB RAM to 16GB of RAM or 32GB etc? Performance varying really is true ! :)
@@Phil_AKA_ThundyUK the biggest gain is memory latency both at cache on cpu side and dram side. Staying on hdd is fine. There are ppl that for factorio benchmark dowclocks memory to something stupid like 800mhz and put clock so tight that its benefitial overall
that was helpful thanks bro!
Wish you would address about using 4 dimms.
Alot of people seems to discourage from using 4pcs. But how bad is it really? Especially when "speed" is less important for x3d chips for example.
Depends on your CPU soc. Made my 2700x went with 2 dimms perfectly stable now where as my 3600 works fine with 4 dimms on XMP
why has nobody in James' life ever taught him how to line up his beard? It's brutal, dude.
I tried re-watching his beard and it looks awesome, don't know what you're talking about. Are you a barber perhaps?
Should really bring up the current issues with xmp on more than 2 sticks of ddr5 on motherboards
What about a video on memory swap? I am using Linux Mint and noticed on my "task manager" with the RAM usage graph, there is a second line called swap. I looked into it and learned it was just taking some of my storage, which I have a lot of, and using it like RAM when my real RAM overflows. Kinda cool, and potentially very useful for someone with low amount of RAM. While of coarse it's nowhere near the speed of real RAM, it could save your bacon in a particular situation. Also, apparently you can do it in windows, and presumably macOS, so that's cool.
For no reason whatsoever, I have my swap file set to 64 GB. On top of my 24 GB real RAM (one of my 8GB sticks went and corrupted itself).
Frequency is crucial when doing AI inference with a CPU
The recommended speed by AMD themselves is above the "max speed" "supported". This is why people get so confused about RAM speeds...
1:37 factcheck multiplication
2:15 skip ad
I'm still waiting for DDR5 gets cheaper...
I wish we had more tests on AMD with 6000 Vs 8000.. I have a 6000kit oc to 8000.. I don't see too much but I get extra write and read.. so I guess is good 😂
Me watching this with DDR4 not planning to move in years: interesting
dude....I do have to call my mother, thanks for reminding me!
You upgrade your pc, when you "need" to.
I upgrade my pc, when I NEED to.
We are not the same
I thought First Word Latency was more important according to the LTT Video 'Does RAM Speed REALLY Matter?? (DDR5 Edition)' (starting around 7:15).
Your RAM is fast, or is it?
Since 3200 mhz was ddr4 sweet spot, then 6400 mhz should be sweet spot . Its exactly 2ble than ddr4 speed & not super expensive like 7000 mhz ram
buying fast ram is a waste of money. i bought ram rated at 7600, the motherboard supports 7800, but she dont clock higher than 5800, even on a single stick. try to refund the ram for false advertising? well sorry the cpu only supports 5600 so we dont cover anything higher.
will it be the same with the upcoming RTX 50 series gpus and the 9800x3d CPUs tho?
i think 6000 CL30 is the sweet spot. Even though i went with 6400 CL32. which isnt needed and a little more expensive
It is a sweet spot for 9000 series in June (or that is what rumors suggest) so you should be ok if you decide to upgrade to 9000 series.
Check out the processor details which say about Ram Frequencies for ex upto 5600mhz
Be honest. Did you interview someone for LMG who was playing Counter-Strike in the other window?
I've got a laptop that will regularly not turn on. Removing the battery and discharging the static build up works but not consistently. Could you do a tech quickie on why this happens and if one can fix it?
Short question - does intel integrated graphics work on 6000?
Context for my question:
Intels integrated graphics is really helpful for video editing thanks to quick sync.
But currently I am using i7 6700k and ddr4 memory with 2800 xmp profile. But as soon I am activating integrated graphics in bios - I am getting bsods. When I am dropping memory frequency to 2133 (which is listed in intel ark as standard) - it seems to work fine.
For newer ddr5 processors - it is listed 4800 as standard, so again, will the iGPU work if I go higher?
Thanks in advance.
you aint gonna find help in the youtube comments on an unrelated video brotha
No idea but it probably won't like your own case with 6700k cause the iGPU doesn't overclock.
@@metty2145 Worth a shot since LTT viewers usually post more and correct knowledge of the subject discuessed.
I have 5200 it was less the 100 for 48 gb for two 24 gb sticks, am good with that :D
6000 cl30. If you are lucky ypu can overclock to 6400 or even 6600 on 1:1 mode on amd. I'm currently running 6400 cl30 myself and gonna attempt 6600 soon
It might be over 6000, but...is it *OVER 9000?!?* 😏
DDR5 32GB with CAS lower than 40 is expensive around 118$ and above.. can you make recommendation an ideal CAS latency for AMD AM5 system? R5 7500F with MSI PRO B650M-A Wifi DDR5
This is probably a me issue, but Every single time I’ve tried to enable higher RAM speeds, its has always caused issues. Crashes, blue screens and general instability every time with every computer I’ve ever used. Ive just decided the default speed is good enough and i get way more capacity instead. Currently running 64gb with two sticks, so i can go to 128gb when i get some extra money.
If only this video came out like 2 weeks ago when I bought ram for my new PC, luckily I got 6000MHz!
....as someone still on ddr3, this video is important to me, honestly... uhh...
yeah...
5600Mhz minimum and CL38, beyond that 0.1% diff.
Me: 7950x3d w/ 128gb ddr5 6000 stable factory timing
Vid: explaining ram sweet spots
Me: wonder if they know 4 dimms on ryzen does not like expo above 5600
How about a "Dummies Guide to CAMM2 and CUDIMM" that's coming with Arrow Lake? I wanna pretend to know what in the hell they are and impress all my gaming buddies!
the last sentence was elite imagine having 8 monitors if 16GB ram is utilized in windows ca 90% with iGPU i think for gaming you will have to think about 256GB cause it is not just the game you are running also ram usage depends on the platform
With the disappointing results and the new AMD5 chips, and memory is now considered not much or not at all faster, It looks like AMD4 will live on.
I just hate that with ECC ram, it's "supported but depends on your motherboard manufacturer". The only way to know for sure is to buy and test.
Ill take lower Clock Times any time of the day.
I have a question about this, I have Kingston FURY DDR5 32 GB kit that runs on 6000 CL36 and I'm not a huge fps gamer, I prefer RPGs and slower games in general, would there be any benefit for me from switching to a 6000 CL30 kit?
No noticeable difference. Just stick with what you got and invest that money in some other part of your rig.
No
Turns in late game civ will load faster.
I'd just keep it and when you decide to ugprade a cpu on AM5, upgrade the ram with it.
@@venomus9286 my guy I have Ryzen 7 7700. I'm not upgrading anytime soon.
Where's Mr Cool Mustache ?