3:36 there is spraying starting around this second, … You showed, but you didn’t explain the physics of why the water takes water flow paths thru the puck… too coarse, too fine grain? what does old roasted beans have or lost in order to have integrity issues? I have been making espresso since 17 years ago, several low quality machines… I recently increased level and I it’s a nice hobby: maintaining taste and fun in balance is the trick I guess
I was having channeling with bottomless 54 mm portafilter but your tip about putting 20.5 g coffee in it fixed my problem! This is the only video I have seen that mentioned the bottomless baskets are a bit deeper and gave the number so thank you! It LOOKED deeper to my eye but I couldn’t figure out if it was just my mind playing tricks.
@@espressodoctor Just piling on and saying that updating from 18g fto 20.5g also worked for me after trying 10000 other things that I read on reddit. I'm still in shock this worked. THANK YOU 🙏
I bought what looks like an identical bottomless portafilter for my Delonghi, a WDT tool, and puck screen and still get channeling/spitting most of the time. I don't have a good grinder and rely on the big commercial grinder in grocery stores - set to espresso grind. Guess I'll have try setting it to finer Turkish coffee grind.
I am new to this and just experimenting. Getting a new grinder on Monday. Something you don't include which I think may have helped me a lot is pre-infusion. But I'm in very early testing phase. I turn the motor on and let it run until just before coffee comes out or after just a couple of drops. Then I'll let it sit for a couple of minutes.
I agree you will always notice a few spays here and there but as long is it's not a mess and the flow is one smooth stream and extraction time is around 25seconds you are doing it right
@@espressodoctor I thought I was doing something wrong, always have one little squirt with few drops no Mather what I did and have all this tools except puck screen :) I measure when I ground coffee not beans and the best way is to measure output, is , direct on output but on my icona there is no space to put scale. Sometimes my coffee tasted bitterish with 16gr and 25sec output.
I see that in the last shot you still have some spray. The first one clearly is a huge channeling issue. I’ve been chasing this small sprays like you have on the last video (which I assume you consider to be a good shot) and I find it to be almost impossible to have have at least one of these “micro sprays” in a 40 second extraction.
I always put the portafilter back into the grouphead after throwing away the puck and flush it. This way my grouphead and my portafilter are always clean for the next espresso
Prersonally I would have set the grind then purged 5 g but half fill the hopper. Then put less coffee into the basket.wdt correctly, then tap for settling the puck, and tamp with a callibrated tamper. The puck screen is good. Did you prime the machine before brewing? The first drips should appear after 5 seconds and mousetail-like stream before 10 seconds or the coffee will be bitter. I hope this helps?
Thanks this all sounds like a next level pro barista advice :) are you? I am always very impatient about purging a few grams before I actually grind, but I did prime the machine for this shot as far as I remember, but I should do that regularly cus sometimes I do skip that too
@@espressodoctor No worries. No I am not a barista, I am just a hobby espresso nerd. I know that too fiine a grind leads to channelling. Priming is something I do buy blackfushing for 5 seconds. It seems to do the job.Yes, it's tough to remain patient.
Hello and great video. I have the barista touch and wanted to get a bottomless pf. I got the normcore 54mm and it seems way bigger and my puck is always soaked where as before it was completely dry and hard. I tried to add more coffee 19 and sometimes. 20 instead of 18. I was going to return this porta. What do you think?
Try 20.5g or 21g and 1 setting finer than what you would usually do with the regular portafilter for that specific coffee and then try adding half a gram but i doubt it should require more than 22. For me its usually 20.5g
I used 7 I think, but it will depend on the roast of coffee lighter roasted coffee does require a bit of a finer grind maybe even 6 darker roast goes up to 9 I''ve found. Hope this helps
@@espressodoctor thanks, will do. gave the filter a thorough rinse this morning but still spluttered everywhere! i'll try those other tips and be more careful with my measuring and tamping
Cool tips, but in my case i gave up, its always to flip a coin on each shot, and you loose tons of precious coffee, so I'm good with the other one not bottomless. Less messier to clean up.
I have the same machine and cannot get more than 15g into the stock portafilter. I often hear it should take over 18. What am I missing? I'm also just generally having a lot of trouble pulling a decent shot. I think I've just gotten used to really bad espresso at this point...
That's impossible, you must be grinding your coffee too course, what setting are you grinding your coffee on? Maybe watch this guide could help you ua-cam.com/video/BnIzjrVnlgc/v-deo.html
@@espressodoctor I know it depends on the beans, but I’m usually grinding espresso roast coffee on between 4-6 on the dial. Looks like you’re on 10! I’ve never been even close to that. Anything coarser than 6, it just runs through way to fast. I’m weighing, declumping, carefully tamping, etc. I’m going through this meticulous process every time, and it’s always bad. My wife just rolls her eyes and asks for a pour over. 😂
Isnt 10 going to be finer? Qre you sure youre going the right direction on the nunber scale? Coarser grind will make it harder to put more than 15 grams the double basket also has walls that go straight down and not angled @bradharman3055
@@bradharman3055 make sure to adjust your inner burr setting finer. I have the Sage Touch and use a 2 on inner and around 15+-3 on the machine (it's a slightly different grinder though I believe)
I was going to say the same thing. I am grinding at 6. And if I do like 18g when I use the distribution tool I loose coffee as there is like too much in the portafilter.
Avoid *Hitting the portafilter on the grouphead so that you don't mess up the grounds inside, sorry for the bad pronunciation, English is my second language
@@espressodoctor I understood what you are saying, but never heard that before. I had always been warming up the portafilter. I will try it your way to compare. Some people state that a warm portafilter makes it easier for the oils from coffee beans to flow. That too could be just a theory. Worth making a comparison.
3:36 there is spraying starting around this second, …
You showed, but you didn’t explain the physics of why the water takes water flow paths thru the puck… too coarse, too fine grain? what does old roasted beans have or lost in order to have integrity issues?
I have been making espresso since 17 years ago, several low quality machines… I recently increased level and I it’s a nice hobby: maintaining taste and fun in balance is the trick I guess
I was having channeling with bottomless 54 mm portafilter but your tip about putting 20.5 g coffee in it fixed my problem!
This is the only video I have seen that mentioned the bottomless baskets are a bit deeper and gave the number so thank you!
It LOOKED deeper to my eye but I couldn’t figure out if it was just my mind playing tricks.
Glad it was helpful, it took me a lot to figure out too, I wasted probably like 300g of coffee testing it with around 18 18,5 19gs 😂
@@espressodoctor Just piling on and saying that updating from 18g fto 20.5g also worked for me after trying 10000 other things that I read on reddit. I'm still in shock this worked. THANK YOU 🙏
I bought what looks like an identical bottomless portafilter for my Delonghi, a WDT tool, and puck screen and still get channeling/spitting most of the time. I don't have a good grinder and rely on the big commercial grinder in grocery stores - set to espresso grind. Guess I'll have try setting it to finer Turkish coffee grind.
Definitely need a finer grind
I am new to this and just experimenting. Getting a new grinder on Monday. Something you don't include which I think may have helped me a lot is pre-infusion. But I'm in very early testing phase. I turn the motor on and let it run until just before coffee comes out or after just a couple of drops. Then I'll let it sit for a couple of minutes.
In my possibly wrong opinion, the most important part of the whole is a good grinder. Spending more on the grinder is a wise investment.
I think the channeling is always on, in few o r huge ammount :L but always exists . great video! :D
I agree you will always notice a few spays here and there but as long is it's not a mess and the flow is one smooth stream and extraction time is around 25seconds you are doing it right
@@espressodoctor I thought I was doing something wrong, always have one little squirt with few drops no Mather what I did and have all this tools except puck screen :) I measure when I ground coffee not beans and the best way is to measure output, is , direct on output but on my icona there is no space to put scale. Sometimes my coffee tasted bitterish with 16gr and 25sec output.
I see that in the last shot you still have some spray. The first one clearly is a huge channeling issue. I’ve been chasing this small sprays like you have on the last video (which I assume you consider to be a good shot) and I find it to be almost impossible to have have at least one of these “micro sprays” in a 40 second extraction.
I always put the portafilter back into the grouphead after throwing away the puck and flush it. This way my grouphead and my portafilter are always clean for the next espresso
That's acceptable, if your portafilter is clean and your group head is clean don't see why not
Prersonally I would have set the grind then purged 5 g but half fill the hopper. Then put less coffee into the basket.wdt correctly, then tap for settling the puck, and tamp with a callibrated tamper. The puck screen is good. Did you prime the machine before brewing? The first drips should appear after 5 seconds and mousetail-like stream before 10 seconds or the coffee will be bitter. I hope this helps?
Thanks this all sounds like a next level pro barista advice :) are you? I am always very impatient about purging a few grams before I actually grind, but I did prime the machine for this shot as far as I remember, but I should do that regularly cus sometimes I do skip that too
@@espressodoctor No worries. No I am not a barista, I am just a hobby espresso nerd. I know that too fiine a grind leads to channelling. Priming is something I do buy blackfushing for 5 seconds. It seems to do the job.Yes, it's tough to remain patient.
ouch got hit with that chanelling espresso on my face unwarned, thanks dude on the internet
Been there..you are welcome
Does coffee level in portafilter also make a difference?
yea
Hello and great video. I have the barista touch and wanted to get a bottomless pf. I got the normcore 54mm and it seems way bigger and my puck is always soaked where as before it was completely dry and hard. I tried to add more coffee 19 and sometimes. 20 instead of 18. I was going to return this porta. What do you think?
Try 20.5g or 21g and 1 setting finer than what you would usually do with the regular portafilter for that specific coffee and then try adding half a gram but i doubt it should require more than 22. For me its usually 20.5g
What grind size do you use? I do all of the above but still have a bit of a faster flow in the middle of the pull and some spraying.
I used 7 I think, but it will depend on the roast of coffee lighter roasted coffee does require a bit of a finer grind maybe even 6 darker roast goes up to 9 I''ve found. Hope this helps
very helpful tip, thank you!
Glad it was helpful! You are welcome :D
Neat video, thanks for the tips - will try those out. Seems I need to get myself a couple of new tools!
@@HKCanary glad u found it helpful let me know how it goes
@@espressodoctor thanks, will do. gave the filter a thorough rinse this morning but still spluttered everywhere! i'll try those other tips and be more careful with my measuring and tamping
@@HKCanary I think the volume and the grind size makes the most difference
Do you have a link for that espresso tamper stand? Thank you.
Yep here you go amzn.to/3XXLYDn and a couple of alternatives amzn.to/4ega8yI amzn.to/3Zytj2a
Cool tips, but in my case i gave up, its always to flip a coin on each shot, and you loose tons of precious coffee, so I'm good with the other one not bottomless. Less messier to clean up.
I have the same machine and cannot get more than 15g into the stock portafilter. I often hear it should take over 18. What am I missing? I'm also just generally having a lot of trouble pulling a decent shot. I think I've just gotten used to really bad espresso at this point...
That's impossible, you must be grinding your coffee too course, what setting are you grinding your coffee on? Maybe watch this guide could help you ua-cam.com/video/BnIzjrVnlgc/v-deo.html
@@espressodoctor I know it depends on the beans, but I’m usually grinding espresso roast coffee on between 4-6 on the dial. Looks like you’re on 10! I’ve never been even close to that. Anything coarser than 6, it just runs through way to fast. I’m weighing, declumping, carefully tamping, etc. I’m going through this meticulous process every time, and it’s always bad. My wife just rolls her eyes and asks for a pour over. 😂
Isnt 10 going to be finer? Qre you sure youre going the right direction on the nunber scale? Coarser grind will make it harder to put more than 15 grams the double basket also has walls that go straight down and not angled @bradharman3055
@@bradharman3055 make sure to adjust your inner burr setting finer. I have the Sage Touch and use a 2 on inner and around 15+-3 on the machine (it's a slightly different grinder though I believe)
I was going to say the same thing. I am grinding at 6. And if I do like 18g when I use the distribution tool I loose coffee as there is like too much in the portafilter.
Avoid heating the portafilter? 3:18 This is a new notion to me.
Avoid *Hitting the portafilter on the grouphead so that you don't mess up the grounds inside, sorry for the bad pronunciation, English is my second language
@@espressodoctor I understood what you are saying, but never heard that before. I had always been warming up the portafilter. I will try it your way to compare. Some people state that a warm portafilter makes it easier for the oils from coffee beans to flow. That too could be just a theory. Worth making a comparison.
@@CoolJay77 No no I think warming up the portafilter is the correct way to go, I meant to say be careful not to hit the portafilter while inserting it
@@espressodoctor Got it. Nice video.
@@CoolJay77 Appreciate it. Enjoy your coffee. Cheers!
You sound like Brazilian. Are you Brazilian?
No lol
If I put in 20.5 it will be overflowing. Even 18g is almost too much
And if you grind it more fine, it will be even worse…I like a very fine grind…and I decrease my original weight accordingly
Paper filters solved my problem. Filter. Coffee then puck screen. No spray!