The term JDCR is looking for is muscle memory. He's seen how the characters look in movement as permanent memories so can "read" 18-22 moves as "here they are". Another factor is sound. Sound recognition is 25% faster than visual. Hei's db2 is an "easy read" because he calls every other d with WEHRDUN... every time. db2 has HASHEEEEEEEEE at 180 decibels and as soon as you hear HA-, you're probably already starting to duck if you've been hit by it enough.
yeah if you spend time in the lab practicing reacting to particular lows you'll have a much easier time. if you see/hear the low coming, but then have to register what it is and then consider what the appropriate response is, it's too late, you've been blown up. if you know when you see/hear a particular move coming that you need to duck, ws2, then use X combo to punish then you'll have a much easier time with it.
2 cents: For reacting, I usually reserve that for stagger lows. It's stifling to include what most refer to as "unreactable" lows to your gameplan, it would just overwhelm you and mess up your chance to win. As a compromise, I end up with something like feel or what most would call hard reads. You don't have to block all lows but you got to commit on when you are going to go and roll with your reads of the current match. I think the term for that is taking the low, at least until you got a good read on your opponent's rhythm.
Yeah, against many opponents I would rather take the low than take a mid launcher trying to block a low. Some matchups are kinda hard to do that tho (looking at you Mishimas)
@@alexthezephyr They're quite the exception. To me, Hellsweep is unseeable so I end up going by hard reads or situational awareness (which I need to improve on greatly) to try to low block. SSL/SWL is not bad, but then it's down to timing.
Not only muscle memory but also the opponent's timing. If the opponent isn't doing anything to anything to change the timing of their lows, then you can build a sense of timing to their lows. You can begin to identify that "in this situation, when around this range the opponent will usually try for a low". Especially if they just throw out their lows in neutral when you have maximum alertness and not much else occupying your mind.
24 frames and slower is reactable. With enough grinding you can block like 90% on reaction 21-23 is a kind of gray area it depends on connection and recognition of visual and audio queues 20 and faster you can't react, but you can react on a read. You feel the low is coming so, as soon as you se the opposing character move, you duck. The last one might seem obvious but a lot of people (including me until recently) ducked to block or low parry before the opponent did anything and that's wrong because they can see you ducking and go for a mid or wait to see you get up and do the low after anyway.
in theory everything from 20+ frames is reactable. in practice basically it all depends on when you use the move and how and it depends on the animation. like, if you think about zafina her d3 is like 24 frames but still it's one of her key moves and arslan ash himself spams it.
most of the time people didnt "react" to move, rather they wait or expect when the move gonna come and block it. some people just want to feel special or powerful, i can understand it tho.
yeah by i mean "react" is pure reaction to the move that throwing out of nowhere. matchup knowledge is more like you are already expect to see it comin 1st place. Just like if you're facin mishima then you gonna expect hellsweep comin and your psyche gonna tell you to block low frequently. that's why people tend to lose to character that they didnt familiar with isnt ? but yeah some people is gifted and have a better reaction than other.
@@LevGauche I understood your point and that was my argument, as to whether it's fair to exclude matchup knowledge from someone's reaction skill. I actually agree with most of what you've said and can respect your perspective. I do have a couple of points though. I personally don't block low more often against Mishima players, but I do look to react to their tendencies as with other characters. It's very bad practice to block low more often in Tekken, especially with the variety of mix-up. I look for small things like how they execute their hellsweep. Do they delay the input? Do they use hellsweep to punish negative frames? Do they use hellsweep to check my sidesteps? I respect the hellsweep, sure, I play Kazuya & Heihachi personally, but tendencies are important and the real elite players will use their tendencies against me. But I still get the read wrong sometimes as well, I'm not a great Tekken player. So I would say that people feeling special or powerful because they improved their "reactions" by learning the matchup, then kudos to them. It takes a lot of work to get really good at it consistently. For me it's not a power thing, I just love the game and enjoy the reward of learning. When you notice a tendency and REACT, it feels good. You earned that reward of feeling proud or just positive. You may never feel that if you apply simple logic like "Dragunov block low more, use range against King" for example. "Gifts" only go so far friend. Hard work is the real wonder juice.
When I play Bob I feel like people block d/b3 a lot on reaction because most of his other pokes are much faster so the slight delay is enough for them to sense that the low is coming. This may be the case as well for other characters.
Yeah a lot of things are preemptive reactions like drag command through you dash before it so subconsciously people see the dash and get ready to break 1+2
I can see some lows like Devil Jin db2, Lili's ff4 etc. but most of the time I get hit, idk how to explain but sometimes I react to it subconsciously or maybe it just coincidental and very lucky.
@@henriquecampos4120 We need to learn to trust our instincts, because we need to separate guessing from seeing lows. To block a low like that, we have no time to think. We must be conditioned to automatically do it. Always stare at the opponents character, don't blink lol
Devil Jin's d/b+2 feels really easy to see, I guess it must be because of the animation but I feel like it's even easier than Hei d/b+2 even though it's one frame faster.
It happens sometimes. What people fail to mention when talking about what can be reacted to is success rates. To have close to 100% reaction to something everything requires a window such as mishima 112. On the other hand you can theoretically see lows down to 20/21f in Tekken assuming current input delay and top 5% reaction bracket of humans, but even then it would never reach 90-100% consistency because of too many factors including it being on the limit of human possibility. So yes, sometimes you will in fact feel like you saw ane blocked something and you probably did. However, there's lows such as snake edges that literally give you enough time to 90%+ recognise the visual prompt and react in time. It's not black and white and some ~21-22f moves will never be seeable because there's not enough telegraphed frames early on. It's a super complex subject and the reality is there is definitely not one answer for every human.
To me, a move being fully reactable would mean as a starting point that you should be able to block it an overwhelming majority of the time in practice mode when mixed with another move at similar speed and few distinguishable animation differences in the first frames. After that if you can translate it into gameplay. I find that a lot of people mix up experience with reactions.
It depends on the animation for me. I get hit by a lot of Miguel d/b1s due to its really unorthodox animation and the fact that it doesn't stagger on block, but I can see Snake Edges for the most part.
when drag's uf4 hit, then enemy go down around clockwise. And in that situation, josie got that, but there was a clockwise wall. so he can use ws4 for continuing combo.
I mostly block low with good fuzzy and read very rarely usually when im hyper focused or in the clutch will I str8 up block a low. Like I just send my whole mental stack to either blocking/crushing the low or whiff punishing a move. But if I did that all game I'd 1. Be mentally exhausted and 2. Get my life blended away by the mixups 3. Never be attacking.
@@xMontorix Yes if you think about it ,just about every launch punishable low the character has a sound cue for it Snake edges etc Heihachi even has a sound cue Unique only to his Db 2 no other move shares the same
We would like to see you get a visual reaction test.. online it takes 1 minute My reaction time is 294 ms (17.64 frames).. just wanna see good pros reaction speed is
@UC3qUO-4po3E_tPugekKlWzA but you can't immediately react right .. you gotta identify the animation then you react So our reactions time are enough to block db4 but the identification takes more time.. i think i have blocked db4 but i think i was expecting him to do that.. it was a read Blasted salami did a video on it that's why i checked my speed.. it would be cool if we could see every other pro player take the test.. and compare ourselves with them
Average reaction time for human is 0.25 secods witch is about a hell sweep speed, that is visual reaction time. Audio reaction time on the other hand is about 0.17 seconds. Unfortunateley we have a speed limit so when you say you react to some moves you most likely heard them or you are well conditioned to your opponets intention. Fun fact. edit: Corection hellsweep is 20 frames so 25 would be something like A. kings sweep
Arya from TBS has a really good video on about the difference between "seeable" and "reactable" lows. With Heihachi, for example, his db2 is seeable. But his starting animation (where he kind of turns his back and goes in with the backfist) has maybe 5-6 frames where it looks like b2. You can *see* an animation at frame 1. But you only *recognize* db2 from b2 ~ 5-6 frames in. Which means the window to react is actually 5 less than what's stated. Reacting to hellsweeps is made much more complicated because it can be performed at any point during the wavedash animation.
I actually can offline because my friend has played Leo & Bob since launch. 😅 Online though or against opponents I'm unfamiliar with I find it a lot harder, but it lands every now and then.
tbh i get the reaction sometimes i don't. you really gotta feel for the player during matches to get the rhythm of their play style but that's just me.
Its funny how many people are just straight up lying.25 frames is reactable in offline by an average person.20 is way above avarage.In my opinion these idiots confuse reacting with reading the opponent.Not even get me started on fucking online.If 20 frames was reactable everybody would break throws in online because throws have 27 f window to react in 4 bars you have 6-9 frames of delay so in average 4 bar connection everyone would break throws.It is not the case tho even tournament players have problem breaking them in online.Seriously tekken players need to stop talking about what is reactable and instead read studies on what is average multi choice reaction speed is.
If you are standing still and your mind is not trying to process your moves as a priority and is squarely focused on defense... especially focused on the deceptively slow animation of lili's low... then you can condition response as a good starting point... but there is literally no limit to how disciplined and focus your mind can get... especially when you get your emotions under control and not focused anymore on the fake problem... but tackling and conquering the problem with solution already established by others who are further down the path to success in that area of growth than you are... And been conditioning waaay beyond those 10k hrs required for proper mastery of any habit or emotional or behavioral logical response...
i once blocked a 13 frame move .........but i had been practicing low blocking for 45 days straight at that time :) ......so it was basically a reflex, not a reaction........(it was bruce's low in tag 2)
"I can barely react to snake edge" Yup, I know what that feels like. lol.
some snake edges have weeeird animations that u need to be used to like zafina
@@foxsteve9937 there's only one snake edge clown
@@gemini4lyfe3001 People will generally call any react-able low launcher a snake edge so calm down my guy
@@gemini4lyfe3001 That is the univeral name used by the community for reactable lows. Same for hellsweeps.
@@gemini4lyfe3001 It's the community term for slow startup low launcher clown
delete Tekken 7 => Watch JDCR => install Tekken 7 => delete Tekken 7 ...
great job editor. also thanks for the english subtitles for international fans!
Agree!
The term JDCR is looking for is muscle memory. He's seen how the characters look in movement as permanent memories so can "read" 18-22 moves as "here they are". Another factor is sound. Sound recognition is 25% faster than visual.
Hei's db2 is an "easy read" because he calls every other d with WEHRDUN... every time. db2 has HASHEEEEEEEEE at 180 decibels and as soon as you hear HA-, you're probably already starting to duck if you've been hit by it enough.
yeah if you spend time in the lab practicing reacting to particular lows you'll have a much easier time. if you see/hear the low coming, but then have to register what it is and then consider what the appropriate response is, it's too late, you've been blown up. if you know when you see/hear a particular move coming that you need to duck, ws2, then use X combo to punish then you'll have a much easier time with it.
Thas madness
I should turn down my music I guess. Never
Audio cue is especially important for db2 as b2 can be used to visually mix it up.
4:22 몸소 보흘을 보여주시는 잡다님
2 cents:
For reacting, I usually reserve that for stagger lows. It's stifling to include what most refer to as "unreactable" lows to your gameplan, it would just overwhelm you and mess up your chance to win. As a compromise, I end up with something like feel or what most would call hard reads.
You don't have to block all lows but you got to commit on when you are going to go and roll with your reads of the current match. I think the term for that is taking the low, at least until you got a good read on your opponent's rhythm.
You gotta block low which give some flowcharts or are obviously punishable lol
Yeah, against many opponents I would rather take the low than take a mid launcher trying to block a low. Some matchups are kinda hard to do that tho (looking at you Mishimas)
@@alexthezephyr They're quite the exception. To me, Hellsweep is unseeable so I end up going by hard reads or situational awareness (which I need to improve on greatly) to try to low block. SSL/SWL is not bad, but then it's down to timing.
Not only muscle memory but also the opponent's timing.
If the opponent isn't doing anything to anything to change the timing of their lows, then you can build a sense of timing to their lows. You can begin to identify that "in this situation, when around this range the opponent will usually try for a low". Especially if they just throw out their lows in neutral when you have maximum alertness and not much else occupying your mind.
Yeah i usually just ignore and eat the lows unless its a launcher
Until i had a taste of Lidia's funny kicks
24 frames and slower is reactable. With enough grinding you can block like 90% on reaction
21-23 is a kind of gray area it depends on connection and recognition of visual and audio queues
20 and faster you can't react, but you can react on a read. You feel the low is coming so, as soon as you se the opposing character move, you duck.
The last one might seem obvious but a lot of people (including me until recently) ducked to block or low parry before the opponent did anything and that's wrong because they can see you ducking and go for a mid or wait to see you get up and do the low after anyway.
FRAMES!! THAT THUMBNAIL IS GENIUS!
Top-tier thumbnail!
Thumbnail editor wanted?
in theory everything from 20+ frames is reactable.
in practice basically it all depends on when you use the move and how and it depends on the animation.
like, if you think about zafina her d3 is like 24 frames but still it's one of her key moves and arslan ash himself spams it.
Yup, same with Miguel's db1, which is 25 to 31 frames, but the animation is so unusual for a low that even pros often fail to react to it.
most of the time people didnt "react" to move, rather they wait or expect when the move gonna come and block it.
some people just want to feel special or powerful, i can understand it tho.
I'd argue that people have reacted even if they expect the move.
That's matchup knowledge and it's a big part of reacting.
yeah by i mean "react" is pure reaction to the move that throwing out of nowhere.
matchup knowledge is more like you are already expect to see it comin 1st place. Just like if you're facin mishima then you gonna expect hellsweep comin and your psyche gonna tell you to block low frequently.
that's why people tend to lose to character that they didnt familiar with isnt ?
but yeah some people is gifted and have a better reaction than other.
@@LevGauche I understood your point and that was my argument, as to whether it's fair to exclude matchup knowledge from someone's reaction skill.
I actually agree with most of what you've said and can respect your perspective. I do have a couple of points though.
I personally don't block low more often against Mishima players, but I do look to react to their tendencies as with other characters. It's very bad practice to block low more often in Tekken, especially with the variety of mix-up.
I look for small things like how they execute their hellsweep. Do they delay the input? Do they use hellsweep to punish negative frames? Do they use hellsweep to check my sidesteps?
I respect the hellsweep, sure, I play Kazuya & Heihachi personally, but tendencies are important and the real elite players will use their tendencies against me. But I still get the read wrong sometimes as well, I'm not a great Tekken player.
So I would say that people feeling special or powerful because they improved their "reactions" by learning the matchup, then kudos to them. It takes a lot of work to get really good at it consistently.
For me it's not a power thing, I just love the game and enjoy the reward of learning. When you notice a tendency and REACT, it feels good. You earned that reward of feeling proud or just positive.
You may never feel that if you apply simple logic like "Dragunov block low more, use range against King" for example. "Gifts" only go so far friend. Hard work is the real wonder juice.
Tru
When I play Bob I feel like people block d/b3 a lot on reaction because most of his other pokes are much faster so the slight delay is enough for them to sense that the low is coming. This may be the case as well for other characters.
So ppl are reacting to absence pf faster pokes, not the slower attack itself... fascinating insight
Yeah a lot of things are preemptive reactions like drag command through you dash before it so subconsciously people see the dash and get ready to break 1+2
Well yeah, thats why you should then delay it. Same thing goes with dvjin and kazuya hellsweep after some oki situations
@@Guitar-Dog
You can dash into his other command throws too.
And if you're fast enough, you won't even see the dash for the 1+2 throw
I can see some lows like Devil Jin db2, Lili's ff4 etc. but most of the time I get hit, idk how to explain but sometimes I react to it subconsciously or maybe it just coincidental and very lucky.
That happens with Anna's db3... It's almost telegraphic. I always see it, but I never block it. It makes me so mad!
@@henriquecampos4120 We need to learn to trust our instincts, because we need to separate guessing from seeing lows. To block a low like that, we have no time to think. We must be conditioned to automatically do it. Always stare at the opponents character, don't blink lol
@@henriquecampos4120 i feel you bro, same to me 😞
Devil Jin's d/b+2 feels really easy to see, I guess it must be because of the animation but I feel like it's even easier than Hei d/b+2 even though it's one frame faster.
It happens sometimes. What people fail to mention when talking about what can be reacted to is success rates. To have close to 100% reaction to something everything requires a window such as mishima 112.
On the other hand you can theoretically see lows down to 20/21f in Tekken assuming current input delay and top 5% reaction bracket of humans, but even then it would never reach 90-100% consistency because of too many factors including it being on the limit of human possibility.
So yes, sometimes you will in fact feel like you saw ane blocked something and you probably did. However, there's lows such as snake edges that literally give you enough time to 90%+ recognise the visual prompt and react in time. It's not black and white and some ~21-22f moves will never be seeable because there's not enough telegraphed frames early on.
It's a super complex subject and the reality is there is definitely not one answer for every human.
To me, a move being fully reactable would mean as a starting point that you should be able to block it an overwhelming majority of the time in practice mode when mixed with another move at similar speed and few distinguishable animation differences in the first frames. After that if you can translate it into gameplay.
I find that a lot of people mix up experience with reactions.
It depends on the animation for me. I get hit by a lot of Miguel d/b1s due to its really unorthodox animation and the fact that it doesn't stagger on block, but I can see Snake Edges for the most part.
When his hand is in the air ---\ like this that's your signal
5:42 is this a tech trap? First time I've seen it
when drag's uf4 hit, then enemy go down around clockwise. And in that situation, josie got that, but there was a clockwise wall. so he can use ws4 for continuing combo.
i hope it is helpful for you😄
You can also use d2 to pick up for combo. I'm pretty sure it works on all sidewall situations.
If you hit someone with uf4 and the wall is really close on your right you can pick up like its combo
I mostly block low with good fuzzy and read very rarely usually when im hyper focused or in the clutch will I str8 up block a low. Like I just send my whole mental stack to either blocking/crushing the low or whiff punishing a move. But if I did that all game I'd 1. Be mentally exhausted and 2. Get my life blended away by the mixups 3. Never be attacking.
JDCR viewers = most honest community :D
Jdcr what do you think about kazuya in smash
Dont forget humans react quicker to audio than visuals
Really? Interesting
@@xMontorix Yes if you think about it ,just about every launch punishable low the character has a sound cue for it Snake edges etc Heihachi even has a sound cue Unique only to his Db 2 no other move shares the same
@@xMontorix this also why dead buttons are important
Bruh, I can't even react to these English subtitles
We would like to see you get a visual reaction test.. online it takes 1 minute
My reaction time is 294 ms (17.64 frames).. just wanna see good pros reaction speed is
I get like 270ms but I've only seen Knee be able to block Kazuya d/b+4 (20 frames) on reaction
@UC3qUO-4po3E_tPugekKlWzA but you can't immediately react right .. you gotta identify the animation then you react
So our reactions time are enough to block db4 but the identification takes more time.. i think i have blocked db4 but i think i was expecting him to do that.. it was a read
Blasted salami did a video on it that's why i checked my speed.. it would be cool if we could see every other pro player take the test.. and compare ourselves with them
@@bookbagman7012 kaz db4 is kinda slow though. That’s not hard to react to.
@@ehsun7822 where did you take the test
@@Lerossignol94 search " visual reaction test" open the second link .. a website called humanbenchmark
Can't post the link here for some reason
JDCR is the king of war
Speaking Korean with Korean subtitle.
captions go brrrttt
Average reaction time for human is 0.25 secods witch is about a hell sweep speed, that is visual reaction time. Audio reaction time on the other hand is about 0.17 seconds. Unfortunateley we have a speed limit so when you say you react to some moves you most likely heard them or you are well conditioned to your opponets intention. Fun fact.
edit: Corection hellsweep is 20 frames so 25 would be something like A. kings sweep
Arya from TBS has a really good video on about the difference between "seeable" and "reactable" lows.
With Heihachi, for example, his db2 is seeable. But his starting animation (where he kind of turns his back and goes in with the backfist) has maybe 5-6 frames where it looks like b2.
You can *see* an animation at frame 1. But you only *recognize* db2 from b2 ~ 5-6 frames in. Which means the window to react is actually 5 less than what's stated.
Reacting to hellsweeps is made much more complicated because it can be performed at any point during the wavedash animation.
I know the low. I can see it but cannot react to it. I know that i need to crouch . What does that mean? Do I need more practice. Or I am too slow
It's a muscle memory thing, you see it but you can only react to it through practice
@@saibotpro8278 thanks. I think it is hand and eye coordination. Practice will make it perfect
머레이는 나락도 보고막는 쌉고인물입니다 아 ㅋㅋㅋㅋ
I cant even react to Snakes Edge outside of practise mode :(
자막 속도가 너무 무자비한 것 같사옵니당
I don’t react I read my opponents mind and say they’re gonna do a low. But they mix me up with mid launchers so I only do that at low health
JDCR being a savage
I actually can offline because my friend has played Leo & Bob since launch. 😅
Online though or against opponents I'm unfamiliar with I find it a lot harder, but it lands every now and then.
tbh i get the reaction sometimes i don't. you really gotta feel for the player during matches to get the rhythm of their play style but that's just me.
헤이 빠세이는 확실히 노리고 있으몀 가능한데 그냥 겜할땐 힘두러엉
Loseagainman made a video about a person who can react to hell sweep and Lars' lows. It's worth a watch
I like how QCB2 is called “Nobi-san” 😆
is nobi famous for doing that? sorry i dont know hehe
@@sleepy7878 he does it a lot in tournaments lol
@@sleepy7878 yes!
5:57 Mkay, I believe you
Its funny how many people are just straight up lying.25 frames is reactable in offline by an average person.20 is way above avarage.In my opinion these idiots confuse reacting with reading the opponent.Not even get me started on fucking online.If 20 frames was reactable everybody would break throws in online because throws have 27 f window to react in 4 bars you have 6-9 frames of delay so in average 4 bar connection everyone would break throws.It is not the case tho even tournament players have problem breaking them in online.Seriously tekken players need to stop talking about what is reactable and instead read studies on what is average multi choice reaction speed is.
I see JDCR again I click
If you are standing still and your mind is not trying to process your moves as a priority and is squarely focused on defense... especially focused on the deceptively slow animation of lili's low... then you can condition response as a good starting point... but there is literally no limit to how disciplined and focus your mind can get... especially when you get your emotions under control and not focused anymore on the fake problem... but tackling and conquering the problem with solution already established by others who are further down the path to success in that area of growth than you are... And been conditioning waaay beyond those 10k hrs required for proper mastery of any habit or emotional or behavioral logical response...
Excellent Player 😀😘😅😘💐
So hard🔥Jdcr🔥I m Big Fan❤️
진 나락은 어떤가요??
Interesting topic
I feel the same with Bryan's qcb3
These thumbnails are killing me
잡다님이면 나락도 보고 막을수있을거 같은데
i once blocked a 13 frame move .........but i had been practicing low blocking for 45 days straight at that time :) ......so it was basically a reflex, not a reaction........(it was bruce's low in tag 2)
oksavingbank can
편집자끼리 철권 대결도 재미있을 듯
아니 왜 점점 썸넬이 미쳐가는데 ㅋㅋ
잡다형님 외국인 팬 엄청 많당
It's ok, editor, the guy who makes the thumbnails is a noob too
24프레임부터 보고막기 가능하다하더래요~ 22나 23프레임기술 보막가능한사람은 정말 상위 0.1%라고 ㅋㅋ
무릎님은 카즈야 퇴새도 보막 하더라구요 ㄷㄷㄷ
@@bookbagman7012 사람은 24부터 보막가능하지만... 신은 아니자나여 ㅋㅋㅋㅋ
@@bookbagman7012 퇴쇄 아니노
@@뻐거킹-j8r 네 맞아요 고쳤습니다
15프레임까지는 철권하는사람들은 다막을만하다고....
보막대신 보맞가능합니다
i can't react d1rk
but i saw her booba
발음이 참 구수하심