Winchester 270 Origin Myth ~ Stupid Wiki Nonsense
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- Contrary to popular notion, the .270 was not the offspring of the so-called .30-03. Case length had absolutely nothing to do with design, which was entirely a standardization issue on German cartridge measurements, and rifle dimensions of standard size.
If you call out GunBlue on anything about a cartridge, you better have yours ducks in a row...down to the thousandths of an inch!
yeah.... seems like a good guy.... I love listening to him
I have learned a lot from GunBlue490! I thank you sir!
😂👍🏼
thats because he knows what hes talking about from years of experience,unlike most people on the internet will research the topic for 5 mins and then call him out and act like they know whats up and really doesnt know shit.
I dont mean to be so off topic but does any of you know a way to log back into an Instagram account??
I was dumb forgot my login password. I would love any tricks you can give me!
I killed all I wanted with a 270. If, in those days I could get my hands on a .280 Ackley Improved, I would have chosen it. Many great cartridges available now.....both 270 and 30-06 can still do the job just fine. Thanks for all that background.
Just wish for the rem-280 and not the Ackley for lots of really good reasons. Trust me.
@@fdegeorge2000 I agree. If you want more velocity with bullet weights at or above 160 a 7MM Rem Mag is the ticket for shots over 350. Otherwise a 280 Rem is an excellent choice.
This video is about 270 Remington nothing else. One can Ackley improve the 270 Remington, if need be, to be a better cartridge but that too isn't what this video is about.
@@garrytalley8009.270 Remington?
My 270 has served me well. Does great at distance, no blood shock like the magnums, penetrates and expands like it suppose it without the supersonic explosion on impact. I don't try to fix what ain't broke. Thanks for the great vid GunBlue
God bless those nameless and forgotten geniuses from yesteryear. My gun cabinet is a tabernacle to my 30-06 and my .270.
Be good.
06 is timeless
Couldn't agree more!!!!!
That’s all you need.
Something I knew already, since some of my first reading as a boy was the Hornady handbook, that my dad had.I sat next to him as he sporterized his 7.57 Mauser..and asked questions as he worked..miss him.
My old man had a 7mm mauser. I'm trying to find one for myself now but proving expensive.
this shit struck so deep, I do this with my Dad now. I am 30 he is about 62. And many times late at night I think about what if my Dad is gone? Did I learn enough? Can I make him proud? God Bless you and your Father
@@jamess6734 Your a good man! Get to know your Dad, not just as you know him as Dad, but more important, get to know him by how he became the man that he is. Ask questions about his early life growing up, what he thinks is most important in life,... you get my drift. You'll find it to be a true blessing once he's passed on.
The old man just slapped down the ill advised! Great video. Thank you.
Good enough for Jack O'Connor...….good enough for me...:)
Amen. I'll show my age by saying I miss those battling articles between Jack O'Connor and Elmer Kieth. Although granted the articles were several years old before I read them. Jack loved the .270 Winchester and the 7x57mm Mauser (.275 Rigby). I've been shooting a .270 I bought in honor of Jack for over 35 years Elmer loved the big bores. I still shoot and hunt with a .41 Magnum I bought 30 years ago in honor Elmer.
The 30-06 was there in the trenches of WW1 it was there at the top of Iwo Jima it was there on D-Day it’s the reason you’re not speaking German and that’s the truth the American flag still fly’s high because of the 30-06 don’t forget that
@@courageukrainian2208 tell Vietnam actually
@@courageukrainian2208 I know it's way late, but hey lol.
This is not a rebuke of or argument against what your saying. I whole heartedly agree with you. But to circle back on your own logic, the reason we aren't speaking German is because of the German Mauser and the boys who were luck enough to encounter one and live to bring home some of the brass.
Ya bit Jack knew how to shoot 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Another well thought out, logical video. You do what most people don’t, you leave out emotions and use logic and facts. Well done sir! Happy Father’s Day!
Thank you for straighting out this. I been wondering for years how the 270 Winchester came about.
HAPPY FATHERS DAY!
Nearly 2000 views (currently) and no dislikes. That has to tell you something. Thanks for the video, Cap.
2 now
@@kentonquint8688 Make it 3. {;>\
I don't know what you background is? However, you knowledge is profound and always spot on! You presentations are always like going to a master class. I have been a firearms fanatic for 35+ years. Over that time, having reloaded and owned dozens of different cartridges, I thought I knew it all! Then, I discovered your channel. I was wrong! Thank-you! Cheers, from Northern Ontario, Canada. I am finally the student again, I like it!
Thank you! One of my favorite cartridges...along with the 35 Whelen, both based on the 30-06. I enjoyed learning more about the 270's history (and the 30-06's) through your video.
When used on deer, my .270 acts like the Hammer of Thor.
@His Masters Voice Yeap, I put'em down all the time with one behind the ear,with 22 call. and similar small caliber firearm's.
@His Masters Voice bullshit had a fawn shot Good she moved went 10 yards shot in the Goods like a 22 hole been mature deer how far it go
@His Masters Voice Yes, absolutely. A .270 can be terribly destructive on light bodied deer sized game. I'd much prefer a .308, a 7x57 or a 7mm-08. But frankly speaking, for lighter-bodied deer, a .223 is perfectly adequate.
@@haroldgodwinson832 Yes Sir, people who really Know ballistics and tumbling effect of the .223 round Know it's sufficient for any game 250lbs or less. Getting Really gamey, ya can soften up the nose of the projectile on a 5.56/.223 rnd and Damn it'll expand within 6 or 8 inches and tumble as well.
We've hog hunted with the .223 and it's a devastating wound channel complimented by an exit hole as large as a baseball quite frequently.
@Brian Hamilton Yes Sir, and for good reasons. It would be a lot more injured and suffering large game than it already is. It's Not really the cal. so much as some peps will take sketchy shot's that should've Never been made. Then Y'all have distance's that are truly unheard of over here on the East Coast. You guys will take shots of 300,400 yards and with extreme confidence in your selves as Rifleman and of course your Rifle.
I remember when 300win mag. first became widely available and produced by several manufacturer's.
I helped track deer (whitetails) for folks who where dumbfounded that this New "30-06 on steroid's" hadn't dropped them in their tracks ! Speed and a harder nose caused a lotta good shots to seem off... but when secession at finding the animal it was seen that the projectiles where exiting the ribs on the opposite side with out fully expanding. I carry a Browning A-bolt, with threaded barrel and a modified ww 300win.mag. when hunting Eastern NC, Sandhills region. Very flat ground and if you got the where with all
I’ve a 20 yr old Savage in 270, topped with a Leupold VXIII, it has killed over 30 deer, 130 gr round my favorite.
The 130 grain strikes like lightning on whitetail! I know what your saying!
When I was a young man I was told many times that Ammo Manufacturers made .270Win out of 30/06 brass before appling the Headstamp. How inefficient I thought, why don't they just make it .270 to begin with. As I aged I found I was on the right track. Even today I still hear that nonsence from otherwise intelligent people.
Myself, I prefer the 280 Remington, which will not chamber in a 270 Win.
when knowledgeable persons like you talk, I just want to shut up and keep listening.
Thank you sir for sharing your valuable experience
Great job... help keep us on the straight and narrow. 👍 God bless.
I have taken all my elk with a 270 and never had to take a second shot. One shot, one kill.
That simply means you re a good shot or you have only killed one elk. lol Keep shooting friend.
@@TheNutzandBoltz I know people that have taken dozens of elk with a 270, anyone out hunting should be a good shot despite the caliber they use...
Me too ive wacked a train load of elk with a 270. That's all my family uses
@@johnkizziah108 my wifes grandfather used to take moose with an old savage 110 in .270. apperently it worked well. .270, .308, 30-06, 7mm rem, .300win, all are great, shoot to your surroundings, distance and abilities!!
In 1958 I bought my first hunting rifle, it was a winchester model 70, ,270. I killed deer, elk, bear and a mountain lion with it. Wish I still had it. Best shooter ever.
Rich Gaffney we always regret selling some, been there
Mr. GunBlue appreciate your knowledge and sharing. Missing my .270 so much finally getting ready to purchase another one as the best combination balance of velocity, mass, and versatility as a hunting and long range round.
Can't tell you how much I've enjoyed watching all of your videos. You're truly a wealth of knowledge and information. By the way - love Benny! God Bless!
I love the 270. I hunt in the notheast where the woods are thick and shots are rarely long but my 270 is accurate and drops deer fast . Everyone is falling in love with the 6.5 bores but the 6.8 bore is perfect.
The. 270 is the best round for hunting and has been more effective for me than a 7mm Mag.
@@jagrench62 Apples and oranges. I would definitely prefer a 7mm Rem Mag for Kodiak bear. Let's get real. It's a great cartridge to a limit.
Bucky j when you take your 270 against a Grizzly and he shits what’s left of you in the alders we will put the 6.8!caliber is the perfect bore size on your tombstone 🪦!!!! lol 😂
@@patrickgallagher4344 no Grizzlies in my woods but if I had to shoot one I would use my 300WM, 338 WM or 375 Ruger. Don't ask me why I have these calibers. I saw my deal with a 356 Winchester last year. Perfect caliber for my area.
This reminds me of a video by the actor Robert Wuhl, called, Assume the Position. It’s a humorous look at politics and pop culture. In it, he’ says, “history is based on a true story”. So true. Thanks for another informative video.
Welcome back gunblue! You know more on your little finger than any quack on Wiki.
This gentleman probably forgot more firearms information than we "think" we know!👍🇺🇸
I'm fairly certain that when John C. Garand introduced his semi-automatic Garand rifle to the War Department for evaluation, he brought it chambered for .270 Winchester caliber. The War Department decided that the .30-06 would be the battle rifle caliber simply because that was the ammunition tooling in all the armories and munitions manufacturer's production lines.
An example of the standardisation manufacturers take advantage of is in the mid 1960s, I owned a 1938 Oldsmobile. I needed a brake cylinder for one rear wheel and a set of brake cylinder rubbers for the other rear wheel. I had visions of all sorts of problems and had drawn a blank at several car parts places. My Father drove me up to the brake specialist in the next suburb and we fronted up to the counter. Old parts catalogues were dusted off and the guy disappeared out back, returning a few minutes later.
It turned out that the brake cylinders were exactly the same as the ones fitted to the Australian made Holden car that was in production at the time, a General Motors product, haha! One very relieved young motorist!
It's nice to hear these childhood stories, good to get firsthand information too.
Your knowledge and experience is greatly appreciated.
Great video - very informative. As always, thanks for taking time to make your superb videos. Hope everything is going great for you, yours and of course Benny. Looking forward to more words of wisdom on all the subjects you've covered in your videos in the not too distant future.
Thank you. We're doing very well, and Benny couldn't be better. My wife and I recently returned from a pilgrimage where we drove around beautiful Portugal, Spain, and the French Pyrenees, visiting holy sites along the way. I've lately been doing quite a lot of work around the house, which has kept me away, but I'll be back!
Always a pleasure to learn from your videos! I do have a couple of points though. I have 2 -1895 Winchesters ( one carbine, one rifle) in 30-03. One was made in 1905, the other in 1917. Both bear the same barrel stamp "30 US MODEL 1903", I also have a box of Peters ammunition that is marked "30 Government model of 1903", that contains cartridges headstamped "30G1903". Both of those 1895's pattern like a shotgun with 30-06 ammunition, but are remarkably accurate with 270 brass fireformed and reloaded to 30-03 specs. I don't know why both cartridges were chambered for that rifle at the same time, and I don't know when the 03 version was discontinued - but it did exist outside of only arsenal stores.
I appreciate your channel!
yup
You really should put both rifles up on the wall and not fire them anymore. You are dealing with unknown CUP pressures relevant to the lever action designs of the era, and improper case length could possibly pinch the bullet between the rifling and the case mouth causing deadly results if the single locking lug is worn or fatigued. Not trying to scare you, just the facts.
GB thank you for taking your time to share your wealth of wisdom with the public. you are without a doubt one impressive man and it would be wise for all the young players out there to pay close attention to what this man has to offer. its like all things in life, value the fact that this amount of knowledge only comes from years and years of experience. there are no short cuts, but a master journeyman can cut your time to mastering in half.
Don't mess with Gunblue490. He knows what he is talking about. He also uses a rare commodity, common sense!
"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Saw a vid where a member of the Rothschilde family stated, " If our family didn't want war, there wouldn't be any." Probably speaking of the big ones, but there it is.
So true.
@@grassroot011 what does what one person said about war have to do with anything or this video. There it is probably.
All Wars are Banker’s Wars
@@survivortechharold6575 Actually the opinions of two important figures was presented.
I’d much rather have a .270 than a 6.5 Creedmore.
Why?
Different types of cartridges for different applications.
.270 has a relatively low B.C. bullet pushed to a relatively high velocity.
It performs exceptionally at taking medium game at medium range.
The 6.5 uses a high B.C. bullet at medium velocity.
It shows it full potential at long range where other cartridges fall below the velocity that it is still carrying.
@@chucksherron use 6.8 spc bullets in a .270 case, more options.
@@oillease1881 why not?
@@chucksherron Wrong! If you do the math on ballistic computers you will see the 6.5 stops exactly the same place a 270 win does on hunting energy. The 6.5 is good on BC, for target use only past 500 yards.
Glad to have you back professor giving another magisterial class👌, Bless you and yours . Give Benny a good fry porkshop on my behalf.☺👍🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Man I wish I lived close to you I could talk to you all day lol. I really find your videos very educational. I'm now going to buy a weatherby 270
You have been a breath of fresh air in this era of "knowledgeable" tacticool blowhards. Just got a special gift from my father-in-law, his father's 270win Remington 700 cdl 80s mfg. Can't wait to get it into the field and bag some meat. Keep deseminating knowledge. Thanks for all you do. God Bless.
Great rifle and great cartridge!
I have one of those as well...shoots flat and fast. I love it!
Dang. I didn't know they made the cdl back then. I thought only adl and bdl
@@abolishguncontrollaws5689 I have a BDL in 270 win. ,made in 1993 and I love it. Easier to unload the magazine , and nothing to lose
Always a delight. No one does better....a true wealth of information. Thank you Sir!
I remember reading arguments between 270 & 30-06 going back well before the internet was a thing. Back in things called magazines ... and not the kind California limits to 10 rounds, but the ones made of paper, that you were delivered by the postman.
"we're getting our clocks cleaned"
shall use that one in the near future thanks
Outstanding video as always..... I guess the ones who questioned your knowledge doesn't watch your videos and know that you did and or do your research. You don't just put out info to be youtube like many others. I always feel like I gain something from your videos even if I already knew it. Thanks for the great info.
Honestly, if it wasn't for his wisdom on reloading I would have switched videos. Glad he pop up on my recomend list. I'm subbing just because he knows what he's talking about. Thanks for your wisdom.
@Sigkim thanks will do
The commentary in regards to .270 being destructive is spot on. We really have a magnum cartridge in performance here and shouldn't be surprised when we get too much of a good thing going on on sub 200 lb and more often sub 150 lb deer. Seriously, the power race in cartridge performance caused some unintended consequences in terminal ballistics. When we look at how effective lowly cartridges such as .30-30, .300 Savage, .243 and others really are on deer, we need to admit that anything above that is going to have a trade off elsewhere.
Still love your videos, glad to have this information as with everything you pass on to us
I’ve been watching your videos for a week now and they have been really good and informative . You have a good teaching way about you .
Could listen to this gentleman all day, and often do!
Very good description. And very complete and accurate. If one wants to see how many cases were formed off the original 7x57, simply look at an RCBS shell holder chart. Any casing that uses the #3 RCBS shell holder is based on that case. There are dozens of them!
In fact, there are really only a few common case head sizes.
The .270 is an excellent cartridge for just about any hunting in North America. So is the .30-06. Either one is an excellent choice. As Barne's "Cartridges of the World" says..."Anyone trying to make a case for one over the other is beating a pretty dead horse"
FWIW, my arthritis has put an end to my hunting now, but the last few years I hunted, I used a Ruger #1 Light Sporter in 7x57 Mauser and it was just about as perfect as a deer rifle gets. Any of those cartridges developed off of it are great!
You make a very good point about all of the cartridges formed off of the 7x57, which is one of my favorite cartridges. My hunting career seems to have largely slowed down, but I still want to pick up a nice Ruger No. 1 in 7x57. I have one in 270 and one in 223, but a 7mm Mauser would be an enjoyable addition.
30'06 was part of the general move from round nose to spitzer, pointed bullets. 8 mm Mauser also had a refinement in a similar way. 270 continued the move to flatter shooting rounds
I had a 270. Win Sako. It had a bit too much free bore and was set up for 150 grain bullets. I wanted to use 130 grainers for deer and varmints and the only problem with it was I couldn't seat the 130's out far enough to touch the lands before running out of space in the magazine. I could never get the 130's print sub MOA, but it was an awesome dear cartridge.
This clears up a lot of confusion for me. Thank you.
God Bless you GunBlue! You are the best! They don't make them like you anymore.
Thank you GunBlue. I have learned a lot from you over the years. And today I learned we have the same rocker :)
A fascinating facet of being a firearms enthusiast is the history that crafted firearms and munitions development over the years. Very interesting!
270 with 140 gr slugs , magic ! All you need .
My Sako .270 Classic with 130 gr Nosler Partition always dropped the deer on the spot. All around the most perfect combination. High speed bullet, huge hydraulic shock! Unlike some of the hunters who use heavy bullets that go through the deer, and explode on the other side. I don't like adrenaline in my meat!
I have killed so many deer with a .270 win. Great cartridge. The 7mm mauser is also a favorite of mine. Keep up the good work.
In Ref to the self defense shooting video. I hope people will take your advice. Glad you laid it out the way you did.
I live, hunt, and hand load in interior Alaska. I've used my 1976 Remington 700 in .270 Win for decades on game ranging from Sitka Blacktails, Dall Sheep, Black Bear, Caribou. Just bought another .270 Win last week....I love the low recoil and shoot at least twice a week tinkering with hand loads. I wish Lapua made their brass in .270 Win.
I love the 270 Winchester, I have 2 of them. One is a Mauser, and the other is a Remington Sendero. Both are deadly accurate.
Most that know and reload know the 270 is a necked down 30.06
. 270 been my choice for years i also reload for it with great success also i put meat on the table 130 grain sierra bullet with 52 grains of h 4350 powder muzzle velocity at 2970 fps
Very good info. I can't tell you how many reloading manuals I've seen that have told me the 270 came from the 30-03 not the 30-06. Now we have full disclosure...
I really appreciate your channel. I have learned so much about the history and practical usage of firearms from your channel that I wanted to drop a note and say thank you sir. I really like your no nonsense approach and reliance on actual fact to bring all the wonderful aspects of hunting and shooting as a sport and science to light. I personally could listen to you pronounce "cartridge" all day long! Keep debunking the myths and bringing your honest and genuine explanations and videos to your channel! I do have a question though and you may have touched on this in other videos as I have not had time to watch them all, but is there a significance of your name "GunBlue490"? Again, thanks for your attitude, aptitude and candor, I for one am a huge fan.
I’ve hunted with a 270 for 50 years and have killed every big game animal in North America, I’ve had no need to seek out any other caliber, it’s one BA gun
GunBlue, Simply the best information on guns and reloading. Would you put a vedio together on the .35 remington cartridge please? Thank you!
.473" head size was pretty much the "standard" for decades for countless cartridges...even the .45 ACP pistol cartridge. Check a loading die chart for how many cartridge cases use a #3 shell holder! The cartridges have been lengthened, shortened, necked up, necked down, blown out and shoulder angles have been changed over and over and over...but it is ALL the .473" head size. I think the gamut has been pretty well run on this case.
Hear Hear Gun Blue. School 🏫 is in session ha ha. If Gun Blue isn’t sure of his ground he keeps his mouth shut!
Greets from Canada.
I’ve read about Thomas Crosley Johnson’s beautiful Winchester model 51 Imperial. Interestingly the rifle with serial number 1 is chambered in .27 WCF aka .270!
@Gunblue490, Respect from the UK mate, love your videos. I glass bedded my .223 Browning A Bolt after watching one of your videos with fantastic results. Going to do my .243 and .270 too. Keep up the good work, if I need to know anything you are always my first port of call...
.......Thank you 👍👍👍
The US media claims the UK has no no guns. Huum? Liberals must be part of wiki.
harold bryant haha, fake news mate, shooting is alive and well in the UK, we can’t have semi autos over .22 wmr calibre, but their are work arounds such as Mars (VZ58) and lever action (AR platform) You do need to have a reason for use with firearms either belong to a gun club or have permission to shoot on some land or book a hunting trip through a company. This doesn’t apply to shot guns, you just need not to have a criminal record and not have a history of mental illness. Pistols are banned unless it’s black powder , only the criminals have those now 😀😀. Knife crime is the problem here not guns, gangs are always stabbing each other in the cities
I can't stress how much I enjoy this guys videos and how knowledgeable he is. Maybe the best I've ever seen.....BUT. THE 30.03 was just not an arsenal cartridge. Search gunbroker, you will find a few factory chambered 30.03s. Mainly the Win model 95. Sorry for nitpicking. Love the videos.
Completely and totally sidestepped what is meant when we say b cartridge is based on (necked up or necked down) A cartridge. Which is why we say the 270 is based or derived from the 30-06. The 270 started out life as a wildcat cartridge developed by simple necking down a 30-06 to hold a bullet of 0.277" dia. It came along at the correct time with sufficient performance to become popular enough that winchester decided it was worth the investment to standardize with a few minor modifications to prevent cross chambering.
In the beginning the wildcatters did not develop this cartridge from a raw unformed straight wall cases. That came after standardization. 6mm-06, 25-06, 338-06. All also have similar origins, hence the -06 in the name.
Just to fill in the bkanks.
I was under the impression that the ball cal 30 of 1903 was not standardized until 1906 hence ball cal 30 of 1906 ( 30-06 ) I think one of the 03 varieties was even a rimed cartridge with feed problems. I believed the A303 rifle was developed at the same time as the 3006. Thanks.
Great and very interesting Video! Thank you, Sir!
Son thinking about getting into hunting. Thanks for the clarity of your discussion. Have sent him several of your links.
Less than 15 minutes, and you made your point well!
.35 Whelen! Great history lesson aka video! Thank you for sharing!👍🏾😀❤️🇺🇸
Also the 338-06, it and the 35 Whelen are both outstanding cartridges
Jeffry Richardson in deer season our local Wal-Mart has pallets of ammo in the aisle for sale around $9.99 for 30-30, 30-06,and .270. Why in the world would you want a gun of any other calibre when you can't even reload that cheap? Yes, they are come on items to get you into buying really marked up items like scopes or clothes or camping gear, but JeezLouise any of those three calibers will kill just about any critter in the lower 48, and the deer won't know it's not a Hornady boattail hollow point super penetrating explosive armor piercing tracer from a custom Kaiser action with a laminated stock fluted barreled Kragoff marine sniper gun that cost $7.88 per shot.
"The German technology was vastly ahead of us"
Natural engineers.
Humans everywhere, though, make me smile with their ingenuity.
Winchester did briefly make the 1895 in 30-03 and offered commercial ammunition for it. Guys who own the .30-03 Winchester 1895 form brass from the .270win.
Weird it’s almost like the .30-03 is the parent cartridge or something.
Hi GunBlue490......In two years I will have been using the .270 Winchester for 60 years, since age 10. I suppose you and I are somewhere near the same age as I am now 68. I was able to take my custom Mauser action .270 as my light rifle. It performed perfectly. I screwed up on one shot on a big Water Buk. I shot him a little too low. It was a long tracking job through the African grass and bush(two hours) The second shot put him right down. I shot 13 animals on two hunts in Africa. One was a Cape Buffalo. One shot with a 286 grain bullet from a 9.3 x 62 Mauser. The .35 Whelen would have done the same job. That same 9.3 Mauser killed a elephant with one brain shot...Again the .35 whelen would have done the same job. The 9.3 was used by other hunters whose .375 H & H rifles did not arrive in camp with them from the airlines. In total the 9.3 killed 3 buffalos, one elephant, and LOTS of wart hogs. The .270 killed as well on the game that I shot from the tiny dik dik up to a 2,000 pound Eland. All of this was from animals weighing 70 lbs up to the 2,000 Eland. I would have had a perfect record but I messed up and shot too low on the Water Buk. I watched at least 5 hunters who were afraid of the recoil of the big magnums and the shooting was not very precise. Keep up the good work on the .270. the >270 and I have had a relationship since I was age ten. Glenn Campbell
make a video showing the rifle
I would suggest you research the 30-03, as it was a commercial cartridge. Winchester was producing it's Model 1895 in 30-03 into the middle 1910s. I owned and fired one. Check The Winchester Book by George Madis and the Blue Book of Gun Values, both mention the Winchester Model 1895 in caliber 30-03. For what it's worth, the 30-03 was created along side the Springfield Model 1903 rifle. The 30-03 was a round nose cartridge, and it lead to the 30-06, a spritzer, or pointed nose bullet. Which was the outcome of trying to duplicate the German Mauser rifle round of the time. The 30-03 has an overall length that is greater than the 30-06, primarily because of the 220 grain round nose bullet, versus the 150 grain spritzer bullet of the 30-06. There is a difference in the actual case measurement also. While a 30-06 will actually fit in a 30-03 chamber ( never chamber a round in a rifle that the rifle is not chambered for) the opposite is not possible, the longer length of the 30-03 means it will not fit a 30-06 chamber.
You are historically correct about the rifle. That's a rifle that Winchester chambered to accommodate one of the countless 30-03 rounds which found their way into civilian hands. For the dimensional reasons you cited it was a very good engineering precaution on Winchester's part, which they found unnecessary by 1910. In any event, the length of any cartridge trimmed length is entirely independent of another cartridge. My comments addressed cartridge development, not firearms chamberings.
@@GunBlue490 I think you missed my point. Twice in this video you stated the 30-03 was only an arsenal cartridge. That information was wrong. Note the sources I used to disprove your statements. Since you portray yourself as a wisely old man of knowledge, I believe it is your responsibility to provide accurate information and to correct any wrong statements you make. Also note that your reply referred to Winchesters engineering regarding the 30-03 and 30-06. The U.S. government developed both cartridges and they are responsible for the "very good engineering " of those cartridges.
@@robertsevers6251 Are you saying that back in that time one could go to the store and pick up a box of 30-03 ammo made for the civilian market?
Another great video, thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge and educating us. Thanks for your channel and everything you do sir
Very true about it being foolish to reinvent something that clearly works very well. Someone didn't heed the old adage "Don't fix it if it ain't broke," and we got the freaking Zip gun. A shop near me has a Zip gun for about $100, and I said to the guy behind the counter, "Good luck selling that piece of junk!" He rolled his eyes and said, "Yeah, we got that in when they first came out, and still haven't sold it."
I know that's a bit off topic, but I think it's pretty funny. XD
As far as I'm concerned. The 270 is magic. It is a true western cartridge for varmints and deer. Can't speak for it's performance on Elk but I know 270 Jack can.
I spoke with the late John Nosler, who told me that the .270 Winchester is absolutely fine on elk with either 150 or 160 grain Partitions.
@@GunBlue490 If the likes of the famous bullet maker of the Nosler Partitions said it will work on Elk, you can take it to the bank.
That combo: 8x57 millimeter + Mauser carbine with its ingenious bolt, they are still here with us. As capable as they were at the end of the 19th century (in the hands of a devoted shooter, of course).
With more 6.8 cartridges coming out, there should be more .277 diameter bullet choices in the future. The .270 Winchester desrves another look.
Nobody should ever ignore the .270!
No one did. Gooses wasted their money on these new fangeled rubbish.
Guys, bottom line is you just cannot go wrong with traditional proven calibers. If it works, it just works. As a good friend of mine who is a little older than I am always says, “I have never had a deer complain”. Don’t get me wrong some of the newer calibers like 6.5 Creedmoor for example are really good but it doesn’t mean that proven calibers are no longer relevant. Love innovation but just keeping it real. Keep up the great work Gunblue and I don’t think I have ever said this but thank you for your prior service in law enforcement.
Thank you, and God bless.
@gunBlue490 I think I have figured out how Winchester came up with the .277 dia:
As you stated: There was allot of anti-German sentiment during that time.....Mauser won a patent lawsuit against Remington..The .270 Win is based off of the 30-03/06. Which is based off the 7mm Mauser... What is .277 in metric? A: 7.0358mm (A true 7mm)
So...Taken together we get a geeky engineer's way of giving Mauser a big middle finger(FU).
Nicely done. Point of order. The datum of a rimless case is the distance from case head to shoulder, which is the head-space. The 03 and 06 cartridges are identical in this dimension. The 03 is .067 inch longer in overall case length. The neck of the 03 was designed to accommodate the
Thank you. Yes, please watch my "Cartridge Headspace-Understanding Case Designs and Gauges" video (published 10 months ago), where I discuss the datum measurement of rimless cartridges, and the headspace dimensioning of all cartridges, including rimfire, handgun types, and shotshell.
👌🇺🇸Happy Father Day from New Zealand🇳🇿👍👍
Thank you and enjoy your Father's Day.
@@GunBlue490 umm no we have ours in September
This guy just schools everybody. I love it. You’re my boy Blue ! Lol if I have a 270 Winchester and a 6.5 Creedmoor... what should I get next ?
A shotgun
@@jasons9157 haha just got it. Went with a Browning Citori Gran Lightning O/U. Thanks !
Gee, that 0.473 inches is awfully close to an exact 12 mm ;-)
Yes, it is. It was not an arbitrary pick. I had intended to mention that, but forgot.
Since I live in a 'Metric Land', I kind of figured that the German weaponry would be metric-based... You don't miss much ;-)@@GunBlue490
I use to take 30-06 brass neck it down in a 270 die and trim the neck comes out the same I think the length was 2.54 inch it's been 40 years
Gunblue thanks for the video. I am a somewhat experienced shooter but you have a lot of knowledge. Can you please do a video on the relation of size of bullets, bore siZe and the difference between land and groove size? Meaning how we name cartridges and rifle and what happens when we shoot and bullets compress? This is something fairly fundamental but is something I kind of Misunderstand.
I own a Winchester model 95 that's chambered in 30-03. It was originally made in 1914. It was my understanding that the reason Winchester continued to chamber those rifles up until that time was because there was still millions of rounds of left over 30-03 surplus ammunition on the market and they wanted their guns to be able to fire it safely but still fire standard 30-06 ammunition. Which it does because the only basic difference was the neck length. I was told by several people that 30-03 ammunition that was manufactured by the government was not destroyed but was sold as surplus after it was considered obsolete after 1906 when they converted all the firearms to the new 30-06 cartridge.
Dear Sir,
In my book, I two chapters, Chapter One, In GunBlue We Trust, Chapter Two, Reread Chapter One.
Sir, you knowledge is undisputed, thank you for sharing.
Happy Father's Day. Benny has a great Dad and family.
God bless you and your family.
Best regards,
Rick Mansberger
Redmond Sports Company
Happy Father's Day and God Bless.
The 270 win case is longer for the same reason the 243 is longer than a 308 win to keep the 243 from chambering in the 308.
Young man, if you happened to own a 270, what Jack O’ Conner book would you suggest to add to a library as a reference?
He has a “Best Of” book out that has all of his best stories collated together 👌🏼
All of them.
There was production 30-03 made by multiple ammo companies for the commercial market. Winchester chambered the model 1895 in 30-03. As well as Springfield Armory making sporting rifles in 30-03 one of which Teddy Roosevelt owned. The 220 Swift was based on 6mm Lee Navy, a long obsolete cartridge with a production life no longer than 30-03.
Always thought the 7x64 Breneke gave them the idea...so origin myths are everywhere...
Love the follow up on the original video.