When the first four classes got a gold star, I thought to myself "oh, that's a cute message, every single class will get a gold star in their own niche, like a really nice kindergarten teacher rewarding their students". But oh booooy I was wrong, things immediately got serious when cleric out of all classes didn't get one 😂 great video, loved the "intervals of confidence" for each class.
The Divine spell list has some of the best crowd control spells in the game. If you’re just playing a cleric as a healbot, you’re missing the point of the class.
40:28, Oh my gosh, finally someone giving the Investigator the praise it deserves in the place it is actually strongest. Incredible analysis all around and nuance-pilled, subscribed.
Your version of a tier list with their variable placement range is ingenious and a fantastic way to show a classes variance from player to player. Your explanations also made a lot of sense and even if people disagree with you, they can't say your thoughts aren't well thought out. Fantastic video
Even though I disagree with quite a few of these placements, I can't help but applaud the amount of effort that went into making this tier list and the unique way in which you rate the classes with the lower and upper range. Very nice video!
Yes -- in the end these tier ranking videos are just opinions (some a little more educated and less biased than others) -- but yes -- this one was done better than most.
This is an amazing video, super appreciate the amount of effort you put into this (and it's clear you've had a lot of fun juggling all this data as well, which is awesome). I'm glad to see a number of my own personal preconceptions confirmed while also getting a better idea of the breadth of some of these classes. Happy that your thoughts about my favorite class (Thaumaturge) line up with mine as well! I'd say the only thing I would've liked to see pointed out some more is the potential variance in these scores depending on the type of campaign and the style of GMing in different groups. I've found that aspects like skill feats, Recall Knowledge and even things like language proficiencies can vary wildly in priority depending on context. Obviously that would muddle a lot of the data points in your list, so I definitely understand sticking to essentially the "archetypical" PF2e play context to evaluate these classes. Just thought that pointing out this context-dependency in some places might've been helpful for newer players as well. Anyways, amazing work and I'm looking forward to seeing your future videos in my inbox! :)
Amazing analysis of all classes! What I loved is that you provided very well constructed tips on how each class can rise to a higher tier. Already shared this video with all the groups I'm playing! Subscribed!
You killed it with this video. Subscribed. Looking forward to seeing what you do in the future. I really enjoyed listening to this while painting tonight.
Amazing content and quite in-depth too! I think you struck a really good balance between keeping it digestible for each class while still highlighting key factors in your assessment, awesome video!
I don't even play pathfinder but this was a phenomenal presentation and I feel like I know a lot more about the baseline gameplay of the remastered classes after watching this compared to reading what's in the books with my level of understanding. Great job, 10/10
Finally wrapped up the video. Thank you for the great layout, highlighting how the class can improve its value, and the succinct information provided. I hope as we go forward and you further digest PC2 we can get individual class videos going forward.
This is an amazing way to present information. I really love the intervals of performance, since in reality player ability will make a big difference how the classes perform. This provides a clearer idea on how wide the range of competence can be for a single class.
I've been out of the Pathfinder loop for several years, just reading up again in preparation for a campaign I'm preparing to run. This was a really helpful and insightful way to look at the classes, and it's earned my subscription.
this is a great video, love the format. It does a good job of showing what is (in my opinion) the key distinction between something that's mid-tier and something that's high-tier. Almost anything can excel with enough effort, but certain classes take a lot of knowledge, skill, or specific builds to end up at the level some other classes are starting out at.
Well reasoned and instructive. Even if one were to disagree with some of the conclusions, this is a great exercise in considering the range of effectiveness different builds can offer for every class.
You’ve made a subscriber out of me. I would love to hear more thoughts on Investigator, as that’s what I’m playing as my first pf2e class and I’ve been struggling. Pretty happy with the remaster, think it’ll make life easier, but you can’t ever have too much info. Edit: Just found the Investigator overview video. Know what I’m watching next!
22:23 Fun fact, if we go by RAW, if you picked up Champion dedication and you received its reaction through the dedication, you can't actually use the reaction, since the reaction now works off of the Champion's aura, which the Champion dedication doesn't specify you have. So, by RAW the feat that grants you the reaction literally does nothing. But of course, this isn't obviously the intention, and it will be most likely erratad in the future, but it is funny.
Really well considered video, im not usually into the letter grade style of tier list but the bar you did for each class actually allowed for the sort of nuance that is usually lost by doing this and I think thats really impressive. Also very cool to see someone with it/its pronouns doing pathfinder videos, excited to see your starfinder coverage if its even a 10th as in depth ^w^
This was great. It was refreshing that you didn't, as they say in sports betting, "go chalk." This might be the first list I've seen that didn't have Fighter as best in its archetype, and everyone else I've seen gushes over the new Oracle. You weren't as excited, which is cool. I'm deliberately trying to find more content from smaller channels, and it paid off with yours.
Dope video! Most of these class rankings feel like they're based on purely skim-reading the class or white-room maths without talking about practical session-to-session gameplay but you've got this really obvious understanding and experience that comes through in the review.
This is honestly the best way to show how classes break down thanks to choice and how beginner friendly some classes are. Keep up the good work! Also can't wait when is Free archetype with each class is added to the equation /jk
Really great tier list. I kind of wish the class images were also placed in kind of on the expected tier line to make it a bit easier to read at a glance.
HEY WAIT THIS CHANNEL IS HEAT. Loving this kind of content and would love to see more, I adore super in depth content like this and would love to see more. Any thoughts on making a video on DMing Pf2E? I'm starting my first time DMing it in a few weeks. Regardless subbed and belled, can't wait to see what you make next.
First of all, I am absolutely in love with the way you've done this tier list! It's so unique and allows for a style of analysis that's easy to comprehend, concise yet still in-depth! Second, poor Oracle... My fav class in PF1E has been struggling so much in PF2E... I have to wonder if, given how PF2E is designed such that any disadvantage you get in 2e is so much more punishing than it is in 1e (after-all, every single +1 and -1 matters) means that the class is kinda just... Doomed to fail thanks to the curse mechanic? Pre-remaster the fact that the class had to jump through hoops to be on the same power level as others (a problem they shared with Alchemists, specifically mutagenist) was one of the biggest complaints they had and they haven't really solved that, they've just extracted the power (and as a consequence, the class flavor), put it into feats and called it a day. This change in design philosophy does mean that the archetype is an extremely strong pick-up at least thanks to the general power of Oracle feats being 'higher' than other classes due to giving you cursebound (tho whether taking the curse penalties is ever worth it is another question), imo it's just as good a pick-up as the psychic archetype as a "generically good for pretty much everyone" archetype. The fact that they also massively gutted certain mysteries, Battle and Life most notably, is so strange to me... Oracle was already considered one of the weakest classes in the game in general, and their response was to nerf the most beloved mysteries? Why? What sense does that even make? Smh Paizo... Smh...
Quite an interesting way of showing tier placement. I quite like it. Your reasoning seems sound, and I'm not just saying that because you placed kineticist in A+. I very much enjoyed the video. 👌 What are your 3 favourite classes?
Thank you for your kind words! My favourite 3 would have to be (in no particular order) Alchemist for the depth of the alchemical consumable list, Cleric for being just such an amazing chassis for support, and Thaumaturge for the nigh-unbeatable build flexibility and capability to gain information on the fly.
@@lexchxn Thaumaturge was one of the first classes that got my attention when I got into PF2e. I like the idea and feel of the alchemist but for me it's more of a "I would love to play _with_ one instead of _playing_ one. My top 3 would be kineticist (it's the embodiment of my fantasy), druid (specifically the untamed/wildshape version) and, when it comes out, the exemplar.
I think you had some interesting takes. I liked the Summoner stuff you pointed out. I'd recommend trying to trim down the start a bit. Your system is fairly intuitive so it felt a tad overexplained
Start of video : why the hell are they not using a normal tier list tool, that looks overkill After a single class : oh geez that's why, that's so well thought!
I don't know if I agree with your analysis of the Cursebound options. Almost all of them are ways of breaking the action economy, so they are a tradeoff you pay for essentially squeezing more out of your turns. I will admit, some are better than others, but I think that free metamagic, are all good. They also get some very strong cursebound feats at later levels too.
![[lexchxn]](http://yt3.ggpht.com/u7ZWGeod_vPXqa2B_NOEd9zHXcgnu55rSil2GGMieC9qp_W8YNaTwgYmkPBsizs_55pq1-tVkw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
![[Pathfinder 2e] How to pick a class - A Quick Look at All Classes in PF2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mMRxkf14cBw/mqdefault.jpg)
Fantastic breakdown. I really love the nuance given to each class, everyone can succeed if you know what you are doing.
This is the best way to organize a class tier list I've ever seen!
I was just thinking this. I've never seen this before, and it is a fantastic idea!
This is a very interesting way to show placement in the tier-list.
I like it! much more informative.
The statistician in me appreciates the bars
It's brilliant!
Absolutely agree.
If I were to ever create one of my own, I would certainly use this method.
When the first four classes got a gold star, I thought to myself "oh, that's a cute message, every single class will get a gold star in their own niche, like a really nice kindergarten teacher rewarding their students". But oh booooy I was wrong, things immediately got serious when cleric out of all classes didn't get one 😂 great video, loved the "intervals of confidence" for each class.
The new cleric is so damn silly tbh. All He can is BE a heal bot
The Divine spell list has some of the best crowd control spells in the game. If you’re just playing a cleric as a healbot, you’re missing the point of the class.
Kudos on the uncommon/unique approach. I'm amazed at the amount of thought and hard work that had to have gone into this presentation. Thanks!
40:28, Oh my gosh, finally someone giving the Investigator the praise it deserves in the place it is actually strongest. Incredible analysis all around and nuance-pilled, subscribed.
Kineticist and Investigator are GOATed classes. There is so much good about them.
Your version of a tier list with their variable placement range is ingenious and a fantastic way to show a classes variance from player to player.
Your explanations also made a lot of sense and even if people disagree with you, they can't say your thoughts aren't well thought out. Fantastic video
Even though I disagree with quite a few of these placements, I can't help but applaud the amount of effort that went into making this tier list and the unique way in which you rate the classes with the lower and upper range. Very nice video!
Yes -- in the end these tier ranking videos are just opinions (some a little more educated and less biased than others) -- but yes -- this one was done better than most.
Best way of showing a tierlist- Top tier stuff
This is some great presentation! It always bothered me how classes got generalized despite really spreading the gambit of what is possible
Fucken box plot tier list.
10/10
Thanks for the video, it's clear you spent a lot of prep for this, and this format for a tierlist is excellent! Subbed.
I really like the idea of rating classes based on "contribution" rather than only looking at damage output like a lot of other lists end up being
Yesss more long form pathfinder content. Love the way you broke down the tierlist and presented everything. Great video
Best tier list I have ever seen for ANY system, let alone PF2e. Love this, subbed, I look forward to more. Thank you for the hard work.
Holy sh*t now this is an actual, thought out, understandable tier list. How did I JUST find this channel!?
Single best tier analysis I have ever watched. Your love for pathfinder shines through. I’m subscribing.
Wow, that was an excellent approach to making a tier list with great explanation!
Fully expected a "everything is good actually" cop out, left pleasently surprised.
This is such a good and detailed way to rank classes. Great job.
This was so cool! I love this way of doing a tier list; it's both more informative and more entertaining
Found you from Reddit. 20 minutes in and holy cow. New follower earned. This slaps
This is a rad way to do tier lists. A lot more effort went into it and I appreciate it.
This is an amazing video, super appreciate the amount of effort you put into this (and it's clear you've had a lot of fun juggling all this data as well, which is awesome). I'm glad to see a number of my own personal preconceptions confirmed while also getting a better idea of the breadth of some of these classes. Happy that your thoughts about my favorite class (Thaumaturge) line up with mine as well!
I'd say the only thing I would've liked to see pointed out some more is the potential variance in these scores depending on the type of campaign and the style of GMing in different groups. I've found that aspects like skill feats, Recall Knowledge and even things like language proficiencies can vary wildly in priority depending on context. Obviously that would muddle a lot of the data points in your list, so I definitely understand sticking to essentially the "archetypical" PF2e play context to evaluate these classes. Just thought that pointing out this context-dependency in some places might've been helpful for newer players as well.
Anyways, amazing work and I'm looking forward to seeing your future videos in my inbox! :)
Amazing analysis of all classes! What I loved is that you provided very well constructed tips on how each class can rise to a higher tier. Already shared this video with all the groups I'm playing! Subscribed!
holy moly this is the best tierlist i have seen for pathfinder very nice
the most insightful and best breakdown I've ever been of a tierlist ever, this is a gem, amazing, thank you so much!
You killed it with this video. Subscribed. Looking forward to seeing what you do in the future. I really enjoyed listening to this while painting tonight.
I really enjoyed the way you did that. It provides so much detail for each of the classes.
Amazing content and quite in-depth too! I think you struck a really good balance between keeping it digestible for each class while still highlighting key factors in your assessment, awesome video!
Excellent analysis, subscribed!
Would be keen for a guide to standout consumables at different levels. There's way too many to keep in mind
Seconded
What an incredibly well-thought out video. I really appreciate the box-plot.
I don't even play pathfinder but this was a phenomenal presentation and I feel like I know a lot more about the baseline gameplay of the remastered classes after watching this compared to reading what's in the books with my level of understanding. Great job, 10/10
Finally wrapped up the video. Thank you for the great layout, highlighting how the class can improve its value, and the succinct information provided. I hope as we go forward and you further digest PC2 we can get individual class videos going forward.
Really love this new tier list and style. Can't wait for more tier lists like this.
great tier list and a very unique take with the candle "chart" look. I learned a lot. thank you
This is an amazing way to present information. I really love the intervals of performance, since in reality player ability will make a big difference how the classes perform. This provides a clearer idea on how wide the range of competence can be for a single class.
I've been out of the Pathfinder loop for several years, just reading up again in preparation for a campaign I'm preparing to run. This was a really helpful and insightful way to look at the classes, and it's earned my subscription.
this is a great video, love the format. It does a good job of showing what is (in my opinion) the key distinction between something that's mid-tier and something that's high-tier. Almost anything can excel with enough effort, but certain classes take a lot of knowledge, skill, or specific builds to end up at the level some other classes are starting out at.
Love how you give a wide range for the tiers and reasoning for what specific elements can drag down or raise up the classes.
A brilliant video, thank you for putting so much work into it.
It almost didn't hurt my Oracle loving soul xD
Well reasoned and instructive. Even if one were to disagree with some of the conclusions, this is a great exercise in considering the range of effectiveness different builds can offer for every class.
This is easily the best tier list I've seen. Well done. I hope you start getting a lot more traction, you deserve it.
I love the standard deviation bars, great way to illustrate the nuance of build variation
You’ve made a subscriber out of me. I would love to hear more thoughts on Investigator, as that’s what I’m playing as my first pf2e class and I’ve been struggling. Pretty happy with the remaster, think it’ll make life easier, but you can’t ever have too much info.
Edit: Just found the Investigator overview video. Know what I’m watching next!
New tier list meta right here. Blown away by your ingenuity!
22:23 Fun fact, if we go by RAW, if you picked up Champion dedication and you received its reaction through the dedication, you can't actually use the reaction, since the reaction now works off of the Champion's aura, which the Champion dedication doesn't specify you have. So, by RAW the feat that grants you the reaction literally does nothing. But of course, this isn't obviously the intention, and it will be most likely erratad in the future, but it is funny.
Probably the best tier list I've seen from the pathfinder community. Subscribed!
what a nice way to show a tier list, this is so insightfull and also clean and very simple to understand. Great video overall
Such an amazing video and such detailed explanations! Thank your hard work!
Clear rational and well put together. Insightful and helpful thank you.
Really well considered video, im not usually into the letter grade style of tier list but the bar you did for each class actually allowed for the sort of nuance that is usually lost by doing this and I think thats really impressive. Also very cool to see someone with it/its pronouns doing pathfinder videos, excited to see your starfinder coverage if its even a 10th as in depth ^w^
Best tier list ive ever seen.
Pretty good arguments.
You now have a new subscriber!
This was great. It was refreshing that you didn't, as they say in sports betting, "go chalk." This might be the first list I've seen that didn't have Fighter as best in its archetype, and everyone else I've seen gushes over the new Oracle. You weren't as excited, which is cool. I'm deliberately trying to find more content from smaller channels, and it paid off with yours.
You're smart and this is cool. Nice job with graphics putting them across tiers
Love the ranking system. Looks way better imo. Love it!
Dope video! Most of these class rankings feel like they're based on purely skim-reading the class or white-room maths without talking about practical session-to-session gameplay but you've got this really obvious understanding and experience that comes through in the review.
I love this way of breaking things down, your style is interesting, unique, and thorough! Greatly enjoyed listening to your analysis. Subscribed.
Deep analysis, very impressive, strong verbal skills, academic style.
Best tier list i've seen.
great job
GREAT video and breakdown of classes. The detail was perfect for explaining
Appreciate the nuance. I hope you'll grow to be one of the biggest PF2 youtubers one day
This looks like a world of logs tier list. I love it!
This is honestly the best way to show how classes break down thanks to choice and how beginner friendly some classes are. Keep up the good work!
Also can't wait when is Free archetype with each class is added to the equation /jk
Best tier system I have seen.
This is a lovely way to do a tier list, really great!
This is a tier presentations I will judge all others against. Great presentation, great explanation!
this is awesome! i gave my real personal information to that artist in your about page!
I sure hope not! I'm glad you enjoyed the video :)
Most accurate tier list I've seen yet for PF2.
Really great tier list. I kind of wish the class images were also placed in kind of on the expected tier line to make it a bit easier to read at a glance.
HEY WAIT THIS CHANNEL IS HEAT. Loving this kind of content and would love to see more, I adore super in depth content like this and would love to see more. Any thoughts on making a video on DMing Pf2E? I'm starting my first time DMing it in a few weeks. Regardless subbed and belled, can't wait to see what you make next.
1:10 - Paizo declares no intention to remaster more. Then this week: We're gonna remaster Guns and Gears...
This is great. However I do believe new oracle can expand their spell list past divine with special spells from their mystery.
This is awesome
This is a really incredible video, sending this to my group to spawn arguments among all my players :3
I loved this video! What a great analysis that's helped me--a P2e newcomer--understand the game better. Subscribed!
Been looking for more pf2 youtube stuff, this is great!
Great list - appreciate the nuance and range in analysis!
Love your voice, and the diagram is brilliant. Thank you for this~
Just found the channel. Great and insightful
Loved the use of a whisker plot! I’ve never seen that before
Great analysis. New follower gained.
There's so many fun classes in PF2e it's hard to choose which one to play! I'm excited for the exemplar and all the SF2e classes that will be coming.
Amazing and well elaborated, happy to be subscriber 499
Very well made and well spoken video, subbed.
Great breakdown, I like this format compared to what most folks use.
First of all, I am absolutely in love with the way you've done this tier list! It's so unique and allows for a style of analysis that's easy to comprehend, concise yet still in-depth!
Second, poor Oracle... My fav class in PF1E has been struggling so much in PF2E... I have to wonder if, given how PF2E is designed such that any disadvantage you get in 2e is so much more punishing than it is in 1e (after-all, every single +1 and -1 matters) means that the class is kinda just... Doomed to fail thanks to the curse mechanic? Pre-remaster the fact that the class had to jump through hoops to be on the same power level as others (a problem they shared with Alchemists, specifically mutagenist) was one of the biggest complaints they had and they haven't really solved that, they've just extracted the power (and as a consequence, the class flavor), put it into feats and called it a day.
This change in design philosophy does mean that the archetype is an extremely strong pick-up at least thanks to the general power of Oracle feats being 'higher' than other classes due to giving you cursebound (tho whether taking the curse penalties is ever worth it is another question), imo it's just as good a pick-up as the psychic archetype as a "generically good for pretty much everyone" archetype.
The fact that they also massively gutted certain mysteries, Battle and Life most notably, is so strange to me... Oracle was already considered one of the weakest classes in the game in general, and their response was to nerf the most beloved mysteries? Why? What sense does that even make? Smh Paizo... Smh...
This was great! Very insightful
Exceptionally well done!!!
Great video!
This is such a good video
Excellent take on a tier list
Amazing video, thanks for sharing all that knowledge!!
Quite an interesting way of showing tier placement. I quite like it. Your reasoning seems sound, and I'm not just saying that because you placed kineticist in A+.
I very much enjoyed the video. 👌
What are your 3 favourite classes?
Thank you for your kind words! My favourite 3 would have to be (in no particular order) Alchemist for the depth of the alchemical consumable list, Cleric for being just such an amazing chassis for support, and Thaumaturge for the nigh-unbeatable build flexibility and capability to gain information on the fly.
@@lexchxn Thaumaturge was one of the first classes that got my attention when I got into PF2e. I like the idea and feel of the alchemist but for me it's more of a "I would love to play _with_ one instead of _playing_ one.
My top 3 would be kineticist (it's the embodiment of my fantasy), druid (specifically the untamed/wildshape version) and, when it comes out, the exemplar.
I think you had some interesting takes. I liked the Summoner stuff you pointed out. I'd recommend trying to trim down the start a bit. Your system is fairly intuitive so it felt a tad overexplained
Start of video : why the hell are they not using a normal tier list tool, that looks overkill
After a single class : oh geez that's why, that's so well thought!
This is amazing thank you
very very in depth. Thank you
Well done
I don't know if I agree with your analysis of the Cursebound options. Almost all of them are ways of breaking the action economy, so they are a tradeoff you pay for essentially squeezing more out of your turns. I will admit, some are better than others, but I think that free metamagic, are all good. They also get some very strong cursebound feats at later levels too.