Fleet and Toughness are A tier. Every single class gets mileage and it is equally good across all levels. Cannot say the same about Untrained Improvisation.
I agree both are at least A. Fleet being an untype bonus so stacks with other speed bonuses and Toughness for low hp classes is like +1 to CON and 10% of total max hp.
Fleet, Incredible Initiative, and Toughness are all absolutely A and nothing even comes close. I would give Untrained Improvision a B as it is useful at higher levels but typically someone in the party is trained in what you need and they are the only one that needs to roll. Finally for Incredible Investiture, in our level 20 campaign our GM had to homebrew an improved version that went to 14 invested items! So I would give that a B too as at that those levels it is not unlikely to be that loaded with magic items.
I feel like Fleet is S++ Tier since even just being 5 feet faster than an opponent can make a while Stride Action worth of difference, especially when kiting or being kited, on top of being useful in general. Also, since half of 30 feet is 15 and half of 25 is 10, when sneaking or going through difficult terrain this Feat gives you a massive 50% movement bonus.
Ride isn't actually needed if you have an animal companion, those already come with everything the feat lets you do. So it's only actually useful for riding generic animals, which really aren't great in battle past the first few levels.
I made an abjurarion wizard with two armor general feats, the sentinal archetype, and sheild block. With the abjoration focus spell, protective ward, you need to be in the front line.
Ancestral Paragon is A tier. There are too many times you will want more than 1 of the 1st level ancestry feats, and still want to take a 5th level at level 5.
Never mind! I was thinking this was ADOPTED Ancestry!!! I'm an idiot!!! Though I still struggle to think it's as good as Fleet, Toughness, Improved Initiative and a couple other feats. That is NOT what that does! Though if you DO want more ancestry feats there is an optional rule that let's you take 2 at level on(one even!) and you get another every odd level!
I believe you fail to take into account how crucial breath control is in a campaign where your DM is trying to swallow whole your party at every opportunity.
True. Also giving Ride an "A"? That feat is useless. Animal companions don't require a check to command and no one uses normal animals as they die as soon as an enemy sneezes on them.
These videos are super helpful, a lot of the learning curve of PF2e is the amount of content and learning what each feat means and can be used for while still learning all the mechanics they connect to. If/when you do the skill feats, can you please groups feats together with their prerequisites? I want to make a graphic in the future to help show the "skill tree" of feats and dedications
Question, why did you rate fast recovery B, and axuma's vigor A? The only advantage axuma's vigor has over fast recovery is a +2 to medicine checks performed on you. Fast recovery doubles heals from ALL rests and grants all the benefits against poison and diseases, while axuma's vigor only works on long rests and grants none of those. Is there something about axuma's vigor I'm missing?
Ah, breath control, the most useless general feat until the moment you're faced with Xulgaths, then it's the single greatest investment you could have ever made.
I’m not a huge fan of ranking things in PF2 simply because so many things are situational to play style, campaign type, and even the creatures the party will face. And some of the best feats (no matter the type) are the situational ones. Those might be niche, but often the actual bonus it provides in the situation is so good that the few times it comes up, it can truly have an effect. Meanwhile some of the more broadly applicable feats that seem amazing in theory-crafting white rooms fall flat in actual play. So a great example of this is anything involving undead. When you read through the guides out there, they often get that Yellow/Orange ‘average’ ranking or green ‘good’ ranking, because they are “situational.” Sure, but Undead creatures outnumber any other creature type (according to Archives of Nethys) by 4 to 1. In addition, due to their heavy presence in pop culture, not only are they commonly chosen by GMs, but they also end up being selected as bosses. So statistically, you’re far more likely to benefit from a much better effect against Undead than, say, needing those (max 20) extra HP throughout your career. Another great example is Fast Recovery. While poison is definitely situational, it can also be a real pain to deal with. It often comes with some form of penalty, often via the Sickened condition, that drops your effectiveness in just about everything. That is in addition to the character usually taking some damage. Just as important, everything and their mom seems to be able to poison to some degree. While poison doesn’t work great for players against creatures, the same can’t be said for those creatures. Poison works really well on behalf of the monsters the GM controls. Still another group of great situational feats, these found more among the Ancestry feats, are the ‘turn success into critical success on a saving throw against a Mental effect’. Triggers for these and their slightly lesser cousin, the ‘turn success into critical success on saving throw against Emotion effects’ are both very common throughout the game. Mental effects make up the overwhelming majority of Will saving throws. And Emotion effects also cover things like Demoralize, which most monsters have some way to achieve in their stat block. Many spellcasters, including bosses, will have spells that target Will. These feats can help prevent players from turning against their party, turning & fleeing from battle, etc. A half-decent GM should always be on the lookout for how to use effects dealing with Will saving throws. Having said all this, and having 4+ years of running multiple weekly PF2 sessions under my belt, I can say this about General Feats. 1. Fleet is S Tier. Speed is everything and more in this game. Even securing 30-ft speed makes you faster than roughly 65% of the creatures in the game, not counting humans (a common enemy in almost all campaigns). Add in humans, most of which will still move 25 feet, and that % will shoot up even higher. Every class has some use for increased speed. Melee want to maximize their movement speed for positioning, while many ranged classes have other favorable options to use, so maximizing their movement for positioning and/or safety is important. Some mid-range classes are so starved for actions that moving faster than the enemy whenever they do have to move is paramount. In other words, Fleet is universally useful, and often for most fights throughout a career. 2. Incredible Initiative is A-tier. Also universally effective, this benefits every character in literally almost every fight throughout the game. This isn’t restricted to Perception-based Initiative checks. So the stealthy Rogues and performing Bards (if the GM allows that) still benefit. Even if all you do is some non-essential action, increasing the chance to make that choice as early as possible is ALWAYS worth this feat. 3. Canny Acumen is A-tier. There are only a few classes this won’t help at all. And most classes can take this early for one saving throw, & retrain out of it when picking up Expert in that save. Then they usually have the option to get Master again in at least one of the saving throw categories late in the game. Some classes can even pinball through several different saving throws via retraining throughout those first 1-15 levels. But yeah, better saving throws for any save will always be gold. 4. Diehard is insanely overrated. In 4+ years of running this system, I think it would have come in handy less than a full handful of times. The only exception is on a true tank with lower AC, so Barbarians. For everyone else, this is largely a wasted feat. D-tier for Barbarian, F-tier for most everyone else. 5. Untrained Improvisation is also somewhat overrated. As DCs increase over the game, the entire party pulling off the same thing simply decreases, even when using this feat. Statistically speaking, there isn’t as much difference between being Untrained and using your level. Sure the actual number itself is a huge difference. But in actuality, the chance of succeeding the check itself still remains pretty low. Furthermore, in many cases you’re just stepping on other players’ toes whom ARE much better in that skill. For those rare-ish moments where you need EVERYONE to be good at stealth or something, by all means use magic items and/or spells. They typically provide much better bonuses. The one area this is actually A-tier is Lore. This essentially serves as a poor man’s Bardic Knowledge. So if you want to grab Bardic Lore-lite, this is really good. Regardless whether you choose this or not, it’s really weak for everyone before 7th level. 6. Prescient Consumable can often make for a better Wizard than a Wizard. So…A-tier, if not S-tier.
My group is about to switch to Pathfinder and I will say I am a little nervous because looking at character creation I feel like it's really easy to make a character that is uncompatible with specific campaigns.
what's important is that you are having fun, not how big your numbers are, and if you really need to, you can always retrain a feat for a diferent one later.
I love your channel! For some reason most pf2e channels want to spend 40 minutes staring at a camera and talking about a single feat instead of making entertaining content like this.
Fleet is overrated tbh. People always forget Longstrider/Tailwind exists. With Trick magic item, pretty much every character get's a free better fleet as well as additional adaptability.
Well, too bad I'm a Superstition Barbarian!!! Oh, suddenly Fleets back to A tier! Also: por que no dos?(I have no idea if they can actually stack, that would be why "no dos" though!) Well, never mind the question of stacking! Fleet just STRAIGHT up makes you move faster, no typed bonus to worry about stacking issues!
@@JacksonOwex Tailwind works for more than like 95% of characters. Just because superstition barbarians are one of the few exceptions doesn't mean Fleet overall should be considered better. While the feet is still good and useful, it is worse than most people think. And barbarians have the feet Fast Movement to give them speed anyway.
Fleet and Toughness are A tier. Every single class gets mileage and it is equally good across all levels. Cannot say the same about Untrained Improvisation.
I'm not sure about toughness. I just don't have enough experience. But Fleet is S teir.
I agree both are at least A. Fleet being an untype bonus so stacks with other speed bonuses and Toughness for low hp classes is like +1 to CON and 10% of total max hp.
Untrained Improvisation plus aid would like to know your location...
"Does anybody else have *insert only applicable skill here*?" - no-one, ever in a game of Pathfinder according to OP.
@@andrewstewartbunker9966Strongly agree with Fleet being in S tier. It is the only feat I could not go without.
I'm sorry, but fleet is absolutely a must have feat.
I don't know that I would say "MUST HAVE" but it's DEFINITELY a DAMN GOOD feat!
Fleet, Incredible Initiative, and Toughness are all absolutely A and nothing even comes close. I would give Untrained Improvision a B as it is useful at higher levels but typically someone in the party is trained in what you need and they are the only one that needs to roll. Finally for Incredible Investiture, in our level 20 campaign our GM had to homebrew an improved version that went to 14 invested items! So I would give that a B too as at that those levels it is not unlikely to be that loaded with magic items.
Dude ranks fleet at C tier. Can't take this video seriously....
I know, it should be S tier even though he only went A as the highest!
I feel like Fleet is S++ Tier since even just being 5 feet faster than an opponent can make a while Stride Action worth of difference, especially when kiting or being kited, on top of being useful in general. Also, since half of 30 feet is 15 and half of 25 is 10, when sneaking or going through difficult terrain this Feat gives you a massive 50% movement bonus.
Ride isn't actually needed if you have an animal companion, those already come with everything the feat lets you do. So it's only actually useful for riding generic animals, which really aren't great in battle past the first few levels.
I made an abjurarion wizard with two armor general feats, the sentinal archetype, and sheild block.
With the abjoration focus spell, protective ward, you need to be in the front line.
My man made a war wizard!
Ancestral Paragon is A tier. There are too many times you will want more than 1 of the 1st level ancestry feats, and still want to take a 5th level at level 5.
Never mind! I was thinking this was ADOPTED Ancestry!!! I'm an idiot!!! Though I still struggle to think it's as good as Fleet, Toughness, Improved Initiative and a couple other feats.
That is NOT what that does! Though if you DO want more ancestry feats there is an optional rule that let's you take 2 at level on(one even!) and you get another every odd level!
@@JacksonOwex But then you are depending on optional rules. A lot of tables don't use optional rules.
To each their own opinions.
Absolutely love your videos. Your ranger video made pick my current ranger!!
I believe you fail to take into account how crucial breath control is in a campaign where your DM is trying to swallow whole your party at every opportunity.
Improved initiative is also really good for casters, take control of the battlefield early, and the combat is over before it starts
I love this videos, are good and to the point
Straight talk time. Anyone who says, "meh, it's okay" to *both* +2 on all initiative rolls and +5 move speed does not understand Pathfinder very well.
I will admit I rated them low, but the discussion of those two feats requires a whole video on itself
True. Also giving Ride an "A"? That feat is useless. Animal companions don't require a check to command and no one uses normal animals as they die as soon as an enemy sneezes on them.
These videos are super helpful, a lot of the learning curve of PF2e is the amount of content and learning what each feat means and can be used for while still learning all the mechanics they connect to. If/when you do the skill feats, can you please groups feats together with their prerequisites? I want to make a graphic in the future to help show the "skill tree" of feats and dedications
Hey Thank you so much for your comment! If you navigate Archives of Nethys, you can toggle the feats by skill. A skill treee graph would be awesome!
Shield Block can interact with shield cantrip, so wizards can absolutely get leverage out of it!
The remaster armor and weapon feats are good. They scale 1 time at teen levels to expert.
Question, why did you rate fast recovery B, and axuma's vigor A? The only advantage axuma's vigor has over fast recovery is a +2 to medicine checks performed on you. Fast recovery doubles heals from ALL rests and grants all the benefits against poison and diseases, while axuma's vigor only works on long rests and grants none of those. Is there something about axuma's vigor I'm missing?
Ah, breath control, the most useless general feat until the moment you're faced with Xulgaths, then it's the single greatest investment you could have ever made.
3:00 What?! TTS man, you are CRAZY!!! This is EASILY A tier(since that's the highest you have)!
Thinking about a shield wizard, doesnt the bastion get a spell+reflecting ability? sounds like a build worth exploring
Fleet would be s tier, by far the best general feat
Great video! Subscribed!
I’m not a huge fan of ranking things in PF2 simply because so many things are situational to play style, campaign type, and even the creatures the party will face. And some of the best feats (no matter the type) are the situational ones. Those might be niche, but often the actual bonus it provides in the situation is so good that the few times it comes up, it can truly have an effect. Meanwhile some of the more broadly applicable feats that seem amazing in theory-crafting white rooms fall flat in actual play.
So a great example of this is anything involving undead. When you read through the guides out there, they often get that Yellow/Orange ‘average’ ranking or green ‘good’ ranking, because they are “situational.” Sure, but Undead creatures outnumber any other creature type (according to Archives of Nethys) by 4 to 1. In addition, due to their heavy presence in pop culture, not only are they commonly chosen by GMs, but they also end up being selected as bosses. So statistically, you’re far more likely to benefit from a much better effect against Undead than, say, needing those (max 20) extra HP throughout your career.
Another great example is Fast Recovery. While poison is definitely situational, it can also be a real pain to deal with. It often comes with some form of penalty, often via the Sickened condition, that drops your effectiveness in just about everything. That is in addition to the character usually taking some damage. Just as important, everything and their mom seems to be able to poison to some degree. While poison doesn’t work great for players against creatures, the same can’t be said for those creatures. Poison works really well on behalf of the monsters the GM controls.
Still another group of great situational feats, these found more among the Ancestry feats, are the ‘turn success into critical success on a saving throw against a Mental effect’. Triggers for these and their slightly lesser cousin, the ‘turn success into critical success on saving throw against Emotion effects’ are both very common throughout the game. Mental effects make up the overwhelming majority of Will saving throws. And Emotion effects also cover things like Demoralize, which most monsters have some way to achieve in their stat block. Many spellcasters, including bosses, will have spells that target Will. These feats can help prevent players from turning against their party, turning & fleeing from battle, etc. A half-decent GM should always be on the lookout for how to use effects dealing with Will saving throws.
Having said all this, and having 4+ years of running multiple weekly PF2 sessions under my belt, I can say this about General Feats.
1. Fleet is S Tier. Speed is everything and more in this game. Even securing 30-ft speed makes you faster than roughly 65% of the creatures in the game, not counting humans (a common enemy in almost all campaigns). Add in humans, most of which will still move 25 feet, and that % will shoot up even higher.
Every class has some use for increased speed. Melee want to maximize their movement speed for positioning, while many ranged classes have other favorable options to use, so maximizing their movement for positioning and/or safety is important. Some mid-range classes are so starved for actions that moving faster than the enemy whenever they do have to move is paramount.
In other words, Fleet is universally useful, and often for most fights throughout a career.
2. Incredible Initiative is A-tier. Also universally effective, this benefits every character in literally almost every fight throughout the game. This isn’t restricted to Perception-based Initiative checks. So the stealthy Rogues and performing Bards (if the GM allows that) still benefit. Even if all you do is some non-essential action, increasing the chance to make that choice as early as possible is ALWAYS worth this feat.
3. Canny Acumen is A-tier. There are only a few classes this won’t help at all. And most classes can take this early for one saving throw, & retrain out of it when picking up Expert in that save. Then they usually have the option to get Master again in at least one of the saving throw categories late in the game. Some classes can even pinball through several different saving throws via retraining throughout those first 1-15 levels. But yeah, better saving throws for any save will always be gold.
4. Diehard is insanely overrated. In 4+ years of running this system, I think it would have come in handy less than a full handful of times. The only exception is on a true tank with lower AC, so Barbarians. For everyone else, this is largely a wasted feat. D-tier for Barbarian, F-tier for most everyone else.
5. Untrained Improvisation is also somewhat overrated. As DCs increase over the game, the entire party pulling off the same thing simply decreases, even when using this feat. Statistically speaking, there isn’t as much difference between being Untrained and using your level. Sure the actual number itself is a huge difference. But in actuality, the chance of succeeding the check itself still remains pretty low. Furthermore, in many cases you’re just stepping on other players’ toes whom ARE much better in that skill. For those rare-ish moments where you need EVERYONE to be good at stealth or something, by all means use magic items and/or spells. They typically provide much better bonuses.
The one area this is actually A-tier is Lore. This essentially serves as a poor man’s Bardic Knowledge. So if you want to grab Bardic Lore-lite, this is really good.
Regardless whether you choose this or not, it’s really weak for everyone before 7th level.
6. Prescient Consumable can often make for a better Wizard than a Wizard. So…A-tier, if not S-tier.
My group is about to switch to Pathfinder and I will say I am a little nervous because looking at character creation I feel like it's really easy to make a character that is uncompatible with specific campaigns.
what's important is that you are having fun, not how big your numbers are, and if you really need to, you can always retrain a feat for a diferent one later.
How is Fleet "meh it's OK?"
I love your channel! For some reason most pf2e channels want to spend 40 minutes staring at a camera and talking about a single feat instead of making entertaining content like this.
0:50 you used the wrong core rulebook.
That's the core rulebook for Pathfinder roleplaying game 1st edition.
Fleet is hands down the best general feat!
not leaving the feats on screen after ranking them? im gone.
Fleet is S+...
i did
Fleet is overrated tbh. People always forget Longstrider/Tailwind exists. With Trick magic item, pretty much every character get's a free better fleet as well as additional adaptability.
Some DMS band longstrider / tailwind.... looking at you, Ronald LOL
Well, too bad I'm a Superstition Barbarian!!! Oh, suddenly Fleets back to A tier!
Also: por que no dos?(I have no idea if they can actually stack, that would be why "no dos" though!) Well, never mind the question of stacking! Fleet just STRAIGHT up makes you move faster, no typed bonus to worry about stacking issues!
@@JacksonOwex Tailwind works for more than like 95% of characters. Just because superstition barbarians are one of the few exceptions doesn't mean Fleet overall should be considered better. While the feet is still good and useful, it is worse than most people think.
And barbarians have the feet Fast Movement to give them speed anyway.
Kind of a terrible first video from this channel for me to run across. Fingers crossed skill feats will be better