I Built a MASSIVE Switchback in Railroads Online!
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2023
- Hey everyone back with Railroads Online! Today I've built a massive switchback to surprise Hyce as he clearly really likes switchbacks and has just been really insisting that we build one...
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#railroadsonline #kangaming - Ігри
The 5HP motor story reminds me of an old mechanic saying. Horsepower is how fast you're going when you hit the wall; torque is how far you can take the wall with you.
I hate that quote with a passion
@@ValentineC137 This is my first time hearing this quote; why do you hate it?
@@SuperiorPosterior Because velocity is how fast you hit the wall and momentum is how far you take it with you. A supercar has a lot of power, and a semi has a lot of torque, but if they hit a wall at 20mph you better believe my 3800lb mazda will hit it a lot faster and go through it further if I full send it to my own demise
@@Rararawr a semi going 20 is just gonna plow through the wall and keep going tho... Your Mazdas gonna crumble under its own force before it move the wall half as far as a semi.
@@Rararawr ….. the semi would have more momentum and therefore go further. Due to the massive Mass difference. Momentum = mass X velocity. p=mv
I love how Kan is calling us "management".
"Well its going to be 7 switchbacks"
That aint no problem. That aint no problem. That aint no problem.....
Hyce's reaction was priceless. All you need now is a line round the edge of whole map branching off to each industry to get Hyce screaming like a little girl.
Please
I was just thinking that they might add more industries to the game and that random tracks around the map might not be a bad idea, if they let us keep our tracks.
I hope not soon though, I haven't gotten the oil stuff started yet 😬
I love Hyce's reaction to the switchback.
Switchbacks and Shays pulling 10% up and down Cheat Mountain for the West Virginia Pulp and Paper Company, later The Mower Lumber Company, is how it was done at Cass, WV. There are two switchbacks that the now scenic (and railfan) trips take to get to the town of Spruce (nothing but foudations remain), Camp Whitiker, and the top - Bald Knob. They do a railfan weekend the weekend before Memorial Day, and it was some of my best time railfanning.
Same
Finally. Another cass switchback fan. The greenbriar cheat and elk trackage was so fun
@@mountainbriarfarm5030 I'm too late to get in on 2023's railfan weekend, but plan to get down there for 2024. I've been away too long.
@@kellingc as have i. Apparently when taking on water, the shays must start from a dead stop up a 13 percent grade on an S curve 💀
Hyce doesnt know what hes talking about in regards to switchbacks. They are absolutely amazing.
@Mountain Briar Farm My last trip to railfan days, we went up to Bald Knob. It was 58 degrees in Cass when we started. By the time we got to the top, it had dropped to 28 degrees and sleet. The fog and sleet were so think that when I was standing next to the cab of number 11, I couldn't see number 2 lashed up in the front. Then, number 11 blew its safety value, and Hyce is right - it is loud. But it was an experience I relished, and I never say a plume shoot so far up and sreighy.
My previous trip had been my first, and I was not really excited other than this was a railfan trip. That first night (Friday) at the West Mountain Society meeting in the Cass Shops, number 11 was by the Coalinga platform and had been fired up.
I went up to the engine, not having seen a Shay, or any geared locomotive, before. Here was this beast of an engine, breathing and puffing, little wisps of steam (or rather water Vapor as steam is invisable) trailing off from parts unknown. I was in the presence of awesomeness. Then compressor made its presence known with the unique sound that I can not describe easily with text. A soft, long exaurated groan that stared some where around C below middle C, sliding down to about a g flat, then back to C, topped off with a brush on a cymbal ast the air pump finished topping off the air tank. I feel in love with that engine at that point.
The next day, I found out what that engine could do, as it pulled a consist of eight cars, each full to capacity of rail rans pulling up the mountain solo. We made a stop at Spruce, did some photo run bys (plus the ones we did over the bridge and grade crossings, and saw the Western Maryland interchange. About 40 minutes later, we were on our way to Camp Whitker, stopping at the next river crossing to let number 11 take a refreshing drink from the sunken tank car by using steam to siphon water into the tender.
While we had lunch at Whitker, we explored the Pullman cars that were used back in the day as shelters. They had photos and equipment displayed in the cars, giving a history of what Whitiker was like as a logging camp.
In the meantime, they had brought number 2 up and lashed her to the front of the train. We were to double head down the mountain, with number 2 lashed on tk help with the breaking. I was a little disappointed we weren't going to Bald Knob at the top of the mountain, but track maintenance, which had to be completed before the season opening the following weekend.
So down the mountain we went, with each of the car attendants presenting the hand braks to provide a constant 10% brake on each car. That, and two engines helped the train crew keeping train under control.
When we hit Spruce, we took the Western Maryland exchange and went down the other side of the mountain, with the Camelion railbus chasing us The poor thing was not made for the teek across the mountain, and popped a radiator hose. I can just imagine a Derail Valley situation and the "over heat" light flashing on the engineer's panel.
While we all were in the huge field (the Chamelion passengers and the train passengers), the event photographer set up the panoramic camera. This contraption was built in the 1920's, worked on a watch spring, and as the camera body turned, it advanced the film. The result was a long, narrow photo. Some people started on one side of the crowd, and as the camera panned away, ran to the other side, so they appear in both sides of the photo. One guy didn't make it in time, and everything below his torso was a blur as he was trying to move into position.
The return trip was mostly uneventful, except the Chamelion breaking down again.. It ended up parked on the interchange at Spruce, and we took on its passengers to get back down the mountain to Cass. The only other thing of note was that there wasn't any way to turn the engines, so number 11 and number 2 pushed us all the back to Spruce, going reverse to what they normally do through the switchbacks, and ended up in front of the train going down the last leg into Cass. Not really that bad at it was mostly a 5% (I think) grade.
This is an account of only a part of that Saturday, but is when I truely fell in love with the Shays. This was in May of 2000, but it left such an impression on me, I remember it like it was yesterday. I'll have to tell you about my second trip to "Rail Fan Weekend", and the rest of my adventures of this weekend in a different medium. Thank you for sticking with me and reading this far.
"KAN WHAT THE HELL IS THAT" is the best moment in the whole video and I'm not even done yet.
what even was it?
I would love to see an eventual rival companies gameplay where you and have have a company and dapper and Kosmos have a company and you share all the selling areas but have to make your own routes and storage areas. That way your competing for the efficient routes and if you build first other companies will have to rail another route to the drop offs. And there may be train collisions or interference
that would work better I feel if the rails did cost to build else it would mostly just be a raise to whom can build rails to all locations faster
@@link7417 maybe exchange freight, essentially D&RGW to RGS?
Still waiting for KAN to ask Hyce about the Experimental MagLev Museum in Pueblo.
*the WHAT*
@@Hyce777 Sent a link.
I’m learning about the Pueblos in my college history class. The Native American tribe. Just thought that was a quirky coincidence.
Can't wait for a new episode of "Hyce screams at kAN over switchbacks "
You guys need to take the same engine, no helpers, and max out weight for pulling up the switchbacks. Then make sure there is enough room for the whole train on the switchbacks. That way you are running the 10% multiple times and the switchbacks once to compare the time to get either done.
Yup, if you want to see whether it is better to have switchbacks or a massive grade you can't compare them if you allow one a helper (or more). It has to be the engine itself doing everything, no help. Which means that the 10% would need a lot of runs up and down. It'll go fast down, but it might not be the best.
They could also do a test where the trains will be 1.5 times the length of the "head shunt" or swich space.
Kan is slowly turning into Let's game it out.
@kAN Gaming
You don't have to race it at the same time. You can do one route with a start point and a finish point and time it. Then do the other route with the same start and finish and time it.
This way you can also help each other with the switches or the helper engines etc. Makes more sense anyway :D
Also kAN, I think you could choose to make the switch back into 6 layers by extending the last one a bit and making a U turn.
I guess that kinda goes against the whole Switch back though so I fully understand you wanting an 8th layer :D
I think the ends of the switchback should be at a 2% upward angle. It would help slowdown when coming down and also to help you start moving out of the switchback.
Hyce: “I’ve seen a lot of stuff built in this game…”
Unspoken: “…and this is definitely one of them.”
Hyce basically nailed my inner voice when he saw the railroad downhill to the refinery and stuff xD
I build a similar route but only with -3,5%
It looks so beautiful and the reaction from Hyce was worth it!
I love how Hyce gets so angry at the switch back.
imagine if kume didn't reduce the render distance, hyce would have seen it
Kan! i hope you ask Hyce about one of, if not the first preserved Railways, the Talyllyn Railway!
Speaking of weird oil filter placements, my dads modified Land Rover series 1 had a 3.5L (or so) rover V8 engine swap and because it's only really used to go off-road in a competition setting it's oil filter is mounted upside down as close to the top of the engine as possible. We spill a lot of oil just for convenience and speed.
when hyce is yelling "kan!", it always reminds me off kirk from star trek...
45:36 I love going between Hyce and Kans videos and seeing how much each of them leaves in lol Love your vids Kan keep up the good work
Sooooo where's the curved staging yard? I mean narrow-gauge wouldn't just have flat, straight staging sections, right Hyce?
Thanks as always for the fantastic content.
Something you might want to consider on the switchbacks: on the leads where the switchbacks meet, it would help if instead of making them 0% grade, if you kept them at 2%, because then when climbing the hill, you can use gravity assists to get some speed up on the next switchbacks level. When I rode the cass scenic RR (which is a former logging rr) their switchbacks seemed to be on grade where they could partially use the gravity assist to get a little speed up when climbing.
The great race from the Iron works to the coal mine and back sounds great.
25:56 that was an amazing frog-like sound from hyce not cartoonish not Unrealistic I could be convinced it was some rare endangered frog
a really cool engineering feat about torque and horsepower is the 1930 Bell building rotated 90degrees over a month while it was still conected to power, sewage, and people still worked inside.
I really like the switchback! Great Work!
Big Bridge Subsidies™
Yes, I came from Valefisk's channel to comment this. Keep up the good work with the series!
the 5hp motor story reminded me of this mushroom growing through an asphalt road... like, there was a bump at first, and some two weeks later, pop! a 'shroom grew out of the road (like... a weak/low pressure or force or whatever... applied over a relatively long time period... you've probably seen a plant grow out of concrete or something like that before... it's just, this shroom was like "F your road, now I grow here!" like, the spores must have been there before they did the road's surface or something, else I don't know how it got there... that was before smartphones with cameras, like nokia 3310 times)
also, I googled "switchback", apparently, there's a movie with Dennis Quaid Danny Glover called SwitchBack... why I always end up going down a rabbit hole after watching one of those "Railroads Online Podcasts"?! O_o
Ask Hyce about that time all the engines got stuck on a mountain.
got a good name for this section of the route, "The Devil's Staircase'
I honestly love the fact that we get gameplay and satisfaction from kan and we get gameplay and train facts from hyce, it’s just so amazing to just chill and watch these for a while in a row
near I-17 in between Flagstaff and Black Canyon City, there is a former narrow gauge switchback into the small town of the crown king. it is used as road route now.
kAN, what if you put a short and small, steep incline at the end of each tail, you could then do engine free segments and essentially "surf" your way down.
stay on the lead car and hop off at each switch, flip then hop back on lead car when it returns for the ride to next switch.
This is a *terrible* idea. I vote it should be done for maximum hilarity.
That sounds dangerous, I wonder how many rail comapnies did this IRL
I agree, this sounds like a terrible idea. I like it. kAN, make it so! ;P
Actually, you could keep the runouts/tails going at 2% anyway, it'll help slow down when going down and avoid "bonk"-ing, and help accelerate when going up. And add that steep incline at the end, possibly.
You should ask Hyce about the Lombard log hauler, it’s the pinnacle of jank engineering
44:46 C.R.A.P 404 really fits the error that occured
The way I always heard horsepower and torque explained is horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you push the wall.
That's interesting so a perfect setup is always blue smoke that's also the perfect way for BBQ so even more to the point that makes trains the world's biggest and most expensive smoke box lol
Bless your heart doing this
Archimedes: give me a lever large enough and I can move the world.
Kahn: give me a 5-horsepower motor and I can crumple four Chevy Malibus.
I love your Intro hycekan and what's both you and Hyce favorite Loco in railroad Online?
You two so need to do that race! Having to finish the switchback is karma for doing this to Hyce! 😂
11:17 and here we see the famous american screaming eagle
Another thing to consider is to save up for one loco for each layer of the switchback and enough cars to transfer from one loco to another on their way up or down the switchback, sorta like a bucket brigade...
DUDE THAT LOOKS INSANELY GOOD
I would love it if you could do a railroads online video with a Shay geared locomotive but I enjoyed watching your videos kan gaming and Hyce. It makes me laugh 2:39 oh dude you can make climax roll coal
For the model railway, you could definitely achieve what you want by using a double helix rather than a switchback. That way you can have two levels, and still just have trains going round and round.
So a few suggestions. Most switchbacks were some of the steepest sections of the line. Some locations even build the leads upgrade to help with stopping the train.
Hyce, on your GTO oil filter, did it ever occur to you that you can use an end cap socket for a rachet wrench with an EXTENSION to take the oil filter off.
Hey kAN, you should extend those headshunts as "kickbacks" using an up grade, not just for safety but so you can run a gravity train down on the switchback.
I love how Hyce never misses a “donk” sound effect
Rotary Barrel Transfer in this game would be cool, you could make a Coal waterfall instead of 8 switchbacks
I feel to make the 10% vs switchback competition fair you should make the ends like 400m or something absurd, then use a helper engine up the switchback, and take like 30-40 cars in one shot.
Then it would absolutely be faster than the 10%.
If you really want to shay it up there, have a roller coaster route back down, so they form a loop, carrying like 20 cars at a time each.
If you want to use it for descending, make the ends go uphill, so you can take cars down it without an engine, using their momentum to get them uphill on the ends, then using that slope to roll them back.
Hyce clearly forgot that the Climax loves to burn out. I've had that issue as well with my own. Basically there's no throwing the reverser and having the thing slow down and change direction because that thing will spin its wheels fast enough that it pretty much won't ever get traction to apply the reversing force to the rails. So he might have thrown it in reverse, but he probably was going too fast and with too much reg on which sent the thing down the rails like a sled. Also bravo kAN on both making a nightmare for Hyce and screwing it up at the same time.😂
I guess to simplify torque and horsepower, Horsepower is gonna get things going to its maximum speed as fast as it can, but it's going to call it quits as soon as the going gets tough. Torque will take a long time to get things rolling at a decent click, but it'll more likely than not give zero f**ks about what it's trying to move, because it'll move it or it'll break itself trying to. If you need an even more down to earth example that's probably going to trigger someone some where into going all ape s**t on this comment (but oh well. Objective offense only hurt the beholden); you need torque for you yourself to push a fat person down a slope. You then need horsepower to catch up to them rolling down the hill at a terrifying speed before they bowl the little kids at the bottom into oblivion. You'll then need torque to assist said "bowling ball" to their feet. And you'll end with horsepower as you run away from them.
You should ask Hyce how the railroading industry would be different in a world without trees. The only “lumber” are moderately sized bushes. Would steam power ever even work in such a world? How would track be laid without ties? It might spark a cool conversation on the next episode of the best train podcast on the Kan Gaming channel.
If you stand on the forward buffer beam of an engine, aim your mouse at the switch, and hold down left click, you can throw the points as you approach.
Fault detection for electric motors is done thru current measurement. Since current thru the windings is what determines heat dissipation and current increases with load.
Car person here, i can say one of the most impressive things ive seen was a steam engine "car" doing one of those tractor pulling events, it just didnt stop where insane ICE would kneel way before it and it only had 110HP
yeah but the torque through gear reductions was just "YES"
Hyces reaction is Priceless
The switchback asking is probably for a reference to the railroad in Chile because it has to go for 150 feet to 11,000 feet.
Or it could be a reference to the original route over Steven’s pass in Washington State USA.
Basic it was four on each side but every spring it got destroyed. So they built a tunnel. That tunnel collapse and now the new one is the longest train tunnel in the USA at 8.9 miles
Ive been watching hyce play derail valley. I would really love to see you play that game kan.
We needed a live feed reaction of hyce seeing the switch back...🤣🤣🤣🤣
44:25 The way the cars pulled each other off the bridge was quite realistic. That's not like RRO at all!
11:18 is where Hyce goes nuts wtf did I just see a massive amount of tracks lmso
When I heard "secret project" last episode I was hoping for 1%
I think the only place the Rio Grande really used a series of switchbacks was on the Monarch Branch at the mine.
It is true that the horse power is irrelevant to pulling power, pulling power I usually call Torque, and it is way different thing that Hp, for example in the gearbox reduction thing, you can have small difference at the input/output Hp values, but the very huge difference in Torques at input and output of the gearbox that drives the chain.
So, actually it is a torque on the output of the reduction gearbox that does the job ;)
Basically, that gearbox doesn't convert only the RPM, it also converts the torque as well and that's the thing which pulls the chain itself and also it is applied as well to the locomotive ^^ (but is is different formula which include fluids, pneumatic/hydraulics etc. I can do that as well but I will need some data for the calculation lol)
If you wish I can calculate how much torque is on the output of that reduction box you mention but you have to give me 3 values to start with,
such as gearbox efficiency (%), Motor power (kw) and output speed of the gearbox (rpm). (Input speed of the gearbox and transmission ratio doesn't need if you know those first 3)
So, the formula is easy enough, basically the torque is equal to the ((motor power (Kw) times 9550) over Output speed of the gearbox (rpm)) times gearbox efficiency (%)
it means, if we have 5hp motor at input, it is roughly 3.74kw, multiply that by 9550 and divide the result with the gearbox output speed in rpm and then multiply everything with gearbox efficiency in percents (%).
Let's say for example that your reduction box (at 14:33 you have mention that chain is moving less than 1km/hr) so, let's say that gearbox on the output rotates 10 times per minute (rpm) but I think it is more slower than that :D, and gearbox efficiency is let's say 72% (it is actual efficiency of an 2 stages Archimedes worm gearbox) (85% is for 1 stage)
If we put the values in the formula above it will look like this: Torque = (3.74 x 9550 / 10) x 72 = (35,717 / 10) x 72 = 3,571.7 x 72 = 257,162.4 Nm to convert that to kilogram force meter (kgm) we can use this formula (Kilogram meter = Nm/9.80665 or approx. Nm*0.102), the result will be 26,223.27 Kgm (kilogram force meter)
On the other hand at the input of the gearbox, if you have 5hp (3.7kw) electric motor, and if we look at the table of the electrical motors we can see that if motor spins at 3450rpm it will give 10Nm of torque at the gearbox input and at 2000rpm it can give 18Nm, so basically difference is HUGE :D
Anyway, sorry if my English is bad, it is not my native language and also, if I mistake at some calculations feel free to correct me lol
btw, I love the content, both yours and Hyce's, keep up great content and channels you guys
I love the CR&P podcast!
*takes ONE look at one the 'humpnail' (lmao)*
Me: Oh. NO.
Tbf neither 10% grade or 2% switchback is fun. Best fun is had on constant 4%.
Here's a tip, iirc Hungarian logging railways had switchbacks that had run-arounds so that engines were always at the front when pulling things up, you could do that.
If you put the headshunts at an incline then you could just use gravity to get the cars back down.
47:16 hyce should use k&n oil filters because you can use a wrench on them and don't need a strap. And maybe he could get something in between to direct the oil away from the header.
I would like to see the challenge to see which way is faster/and or more economic, as I'm actually interested in if I was correct in my own rail, I built long tracks at 1-2% all over then I run long train consists to make less trips hauling more material
I am just saying I now you were going to do this. I even commented on your last video about it. Lol😂
Kan if you build the runouts longer with an upward grade you can have the switchbacks run solely off gravity going down as long as you can time the switches well and you wouldn’t have to rely on the brakes as bad to not bin it
This is what I was going to say as well. Keep the runouts going upwards. It'll help stop you when going down, and it'll help get up to speed going up.
Exactly, and for going up purposes, you'd want the grade to be around 2%, or at least average to 2% over the whole lead length.
I.e. keep the first 100m as 0%, but then build it out to 250m by extending it with 4% uphill extensions of 150m length.
@@Pystro pretty much exactly what I was thinking but I think the 0% should be 250m in length, then a upward grade of 2% for 250m then cap it off with about 100m of 4% so you’ve got gradual braking based off how much weight is coming down or going up and the engines can still handle the climb
I think a race is in order with the switchbacks vs 10 percent grade. But maybe let another weird and wacky route be built with king of both to see if the climax is the real powerhouse needed.
You need to add it to the coop playlist
"This is why we can't have Hyce things" is my new catchphrase.
I run 30 coal cars loaded up 3 - 3.5% Four units one every 10 cars one on the end. (1x C70 3x Heisler) I mention this because apart from never stringing on corners no matter the length of the train, it allows reverse at full speed, zero pushing, I believe something similar would suit you perfectly for your switch back.
Could you angle the ends of the switch upward so you could go down it without needing an engine?
kAN, on the subject of wheelslip, you should ask Hyce what happened when the Peppercorn class Blue Peter (60523) did the monster of all burnouts leaving Durham in the UK
You should name your next train Donk!ey
It looks like one of those rice farms in Asia 🤣
Talking about horsepower and torque.
You know those weird trucks that tow airplanes? They have MINIMAL horsepower but have enough torque to push 747s around
KAN uploading just before hyce what is this universe
To save time, the switchback at the helper station should be simplified now that there is no round table.
I definitely have a more RC approach to model trains. I don't want to sit back and watch. I built this damn thing because I want to play with it.
Also, I'm learning so much about switchbacks here that I'm hoping will affect how I design the MCOR Arthur's Pass switchback I'm modelling.
Should absolutely raise the turnouts so that the momentum would carry the train down the switchback, up the turnout and then back down again and all you would have to do is basically put the train in neutral and man the switches as the train rocks back and forth down the switch backs.
now i want to hear Hyce's thoughts on honda drive trains in American muscle cars, EX Toms Refurb mustang named mosutango
Is it bad that I also had the same reaction as Hyce upon seeing that gorgeous troll of engineering?
the switch back longer run off section for more cars and uphill breaking like a simi runaway ramp .. 2% , then 3% then 5% then end area is like 10%
@jay1o1o Braking.
CAAARL WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? Vibes
I feel like you guys should do a race to see how much slower the switchback way actually is
The madness of unlimited budget railroad building 😂
Hyce! It's fun for MANAGEMENT! lol
horespower is about how fast you get to the wall torque is about how far you take the wall with you once you hit it
What if you set up markers so the guy driving the train can see where to stop on load/unload?
Kan the best way it was told to be torque gets you off the line fast and horse power gets you down the line fast.
@kANGaming Instead of doing an 8th switchback, you could just remove the 7th one and do a bridge loop (it looks to be close enough to the ground for bridges) so you'll end in the right direction...
You don't need an 8th switchback, when you can just not reverse the main line engine, but do reverse the helper, at the coal mine itself. In this way, when you get to the bottom... the main line engine is going the correct direction.
If you have an opperator for the switchbacks, having an odd number of switchbaks might be a good idea because that way, the designated engine would always be in the right position.
That's not how that works. If you have 1 you'll be going backwards (it's essentially a Y), and once you have 2 your go backwards from the backwards, also known as forwards. Since you would want to keep the road engine going forward at the end you should have even number.