Guns for the Pope's Police: Mazzocchi Pinfire Revolver
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- Опубліковано 21 січ 2024
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The revolver we are looking at today is a 9mm pinfire revolver adopted for the Papal Gendarmerie in 1868. At that time, the Papal States controlled roughly the same amount of territory as Switzerland today, and had its own armed forced for internal security - the Papal Gendarmerie. The Papal States had previously adopted a 12mm Lefaucheux revolver for its army, but this was deemed too bulky for the Gendarmes. So in 1867, they went looking for a smaller new pistol. The Mazzocchi brothers in Rome had been official armorers to the Vatican for three generations (their shop was actually located in Castel St Angelo until 1850!), and they won the contract for the Gendarmerie with this revolver model. A total of 2500 were made in 1868 and 1869, at 50 Papal Lira each.
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Looks like a lego revolver
Ngl that’s a pretty accurate sum of it
dude thats fucking hilarious. Like the Indiana Jones ones? I see it!
Dam you are right
Lego revolver piece confirmed catholic
Does the Lego Pope have inflexible elbows?
Officially referred to as the Pope's Police, but everybody just calls it the Po-Po
Thank you.
Stand on the podium and receive your comedy gold metal.😂
XD
You get the Blue Ribbon ! Never let truth interfere with a good story.
Well done. Well done.
Bastards got a hold of my technical sketches from when I was 4
@@UncleSam-7.62other Italians mostly.
Hah, I was wondering why this looked familiar and yeah, it looks like a revolver a kid would draw.
Pietro, Giuseppe and Luigi has to be the most Italian trio of names possible.
pete, joe, and lou
@@danielbehrendt9683Hey! You disrespecting us by not capitalising our names?! Why, I oughta'...
It's Piero
Ninja turtlesish.
"The Pope? Bah. How many divisions has he got?"
"Less than one, Comrade Stalin, but they do all have these sweet pinfire revolvers."
The holy Handgun is clearly a better choice against a Rabbit.
Or snake
iykyk
You're free to count all the way to six! Technology is wild
XD
A better choice would be the holy hand grenade.
But could you hit a coconut being carried by an African swallow?
The cylinder rotating counter-clockwise makes sense. Most loading gate revolvers open on the right, to be loaded with the dominant hand while held in the off hand; this one opens on the left, to be loaded with the off hand like modern swing cylinder revolvers. Rotating counter-clockwise means you won't have a live round under the hammer until you load your sixth shot, and in a pinfire gun that's extremely important because the firing pin on each cartridge is exposed and prone to going off when struck. It's an incredibly simple, but effective, safety mechanism to prevent some dork from accidentally firing his gun while reloading.
This is also an extremely smooth, almost melted/rounded off, revolver. Combine that with the small sights, spur trigger instead of a trigger guard, and unfluted cylinder, and it makes me think it was designed to get in and out of a holster smoothly without snagging, both useful for a Gendarmerie who needs to draw his gun quickly and a useful safety feature to prevent some idiot from accidentally firing his gun while holstering it, which continues to be a concern for police officers to this day. Honestly, with the little quality of life features like the V-spring having a notch to hold it in place, the lanyard ring doubling as an ejector rod and cleaning rod, the ease of disassembly, etc. this is a very well thought out little revolver and probably an excellent choice for an 1800's police force.
"Papacy went looking for a Pistol" is definitely the title of a underground rock song.
I'm amazed after all these years of Ian showing and explaining guns I've never seen before, that he still finds more forgotten guns.
How many are remaining Ian? Thanks for everything so far. You truly are a blessing for the gun world.
I'm convinced that Ian has one of those memory erasing flashing things from Men In Black hidden in each video so we always think there's new guns, but in actuality, there's only like 10
He's never going to run out of oddities,Pakistan is still making new wierd one offs everyday
I think he forgot
How many remaining? Goodness, there has to be at least a few hundred weapons left that would fit "Forgotten Weapons" . It all depends what Ian can ; actually find, get access to, research, and film, that determines how long he can keep going.
@@mattmorrisson9607 he doest because bergman month is permanently etched in my memory 🤣😂🤣
Mario is going to be pissed when he finds out his brother Luigi is running a side hustle business in the arms industry. lol
Nah, Mazzochi Bros is their codename. Mario was footing the coin for seed money. Perks of being in with the royal family.
@@TemperedMedia HAHAHA!
Not gonna lie, I always love when Ian breaks out something from the Papal States or Swiss Guard.
11:20 Between 1866 and 1870 the Papal Lira, the Italian Lira, and the French Franc were all fixed at the same value. Exchange rate in 1868 was 2 Francs to the Dollar: so each gun cost $28.
If that is adjusted for inflation already it's a bargain. Even at wholesale cost. $28 would about pay for one hour of skilled labour today.
@@dfpguitar That's the cost in 1868, which makes it comparable then with the prices of higher end Colts and various rifles. Not cheap at the time. (Equivalent value of $28 today would be $595 adjusted for inflation. But this doesn't always reflect affordability for someone living then on a average wage. Labour value in 1868 nearer to $5k. Not a cheap option, but I suppose Pope's not short of cash).
@@markasimmons Correct. At the time, a good saddle horse cost between $75 and $100, and was the equivalent of a car today. Colt got in trouble for price gouging during the Civil War when they were charging $60 per revolver for the Union army; after the war, the revolvers were roughly half as expensive, and their cheaper models like the 1849 Pocket were less expensive than that.
Per the official definition, there were 4.65 grams of silver per 1868 Papal lira (post-devaluation). Therefore, 56 papal lire came to 260.4 grams of pure silver. For a value, a US silver dollar produced at the time weighed 26.73 grams and was 90% pure silver so it had about 24 grams of pure silver. The bullion value was more like $10.50 to $11 in silver, nowhere close to $28. You can cross check that with Wikipedia's explanation of the Papal lira, complete with devalued bullion amount.
At today's spot value (2024-01-22) a gram of silver is worth about $0.71. That puts the value of the whole gun at roughly $186. I guess that roughly translates the Papal state police issuing their officers Hi-point .380s or Ruger LCP's.
@@thelaughinghyenas8465 But silver bullion valuation doesn’t tell the whole story either. There are tons of things to factor in.
Basically, they weren’t cheap but they also weren’t high end, which isn’t really saying much either.
Just when you thought Ian had plugged the depths of forgotten weapons... He comes back with this little gem.
He is a real plunger...to the depths and beyond!
Hopefully he doesn't get plugged.
And it isn't even French. :)
Plumbed.
Putting once again the Forgotten in Forgotten Weapons
This is exactly what I envision a holy weapon would look like. Upon looking at it you know it's gonna deal some holy damage.
+10 holy damage
Prevents skeletons from gettin revived
@@dwightdhansenyou beat me to it 😂👍🏼
Sends to heaven quickly.
And next week Ian will be reviewing the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
Imagine how pimped out they would be if the Pope was armed and always carried personal, Pope-ified pair of revolvers.
I feel like Ivory gripped, nickel plated SAA's with gold engravings featuring bible verses like "Blessed are the peacemakers" would be suitably popeified and be absolutely baller.
Arround 1500, pope Julius ll went into Battle in full plate Armour, armed with a short mace as sidesrm and a twohanded mace as main weapon. No sword, because in bible is written: Those one, who draws a sword, will die from a sword.
All I can think of is having Latin put on with damascene, but I play too much 40K. Hey 40K's aesthetic owes a lot to High Anglican which is Catholicism with the serials filed off.
@@brittakriep2938So just like it doesnt say anything about knee caps (according to Shepherd Book), it also fails to mention maces... 🤔
@@brittakriep2938 lol, there's some rules lawyering for you
I always enjoy seeing the late 1800s designs, as so much needed to be done without small, fine springs. This revolver has a delightfully elegant design.
Catholic fact:
If a saint has owned a firearm, that gun is considered a class 2 relic.
Class 1 relics are actual body parts of the saints so class 2 is as high as a gun can go.
so if a saint shoots you, it makes you holier?
@@TiocfaidhArLa34
No, but it does make you hole-ier
@@TiocfaidhArLa34 'holier' is he hits your more than once.
An actual literal holy weapon
Well, literally not... you use the word literal too liberally xD
Next up, the Holy hand grenade of Antioch
Nothing holy about the vatician or pope.
@@nobodynoone2500 Lol, found the Babylon Mystery Religion believer…
I could see John Constantine using this.
+6 holy damage .
I love when forgotten weapons makes videos about these smaller german and italian pre unification states. Tnks for the simple yet awesome presentation.
Fun fact from a Swiss. The serial number 1291 is also the founding year of the earliest Swiss confederation/ state. Coincidence?
It's a conspiracy!!! 😳😱🤪
Castel Sant'Angelo was originally Hadrian's tomb.
After the fall of Rome, ol' Hadrian didn't need it no more, so....
@@armorer94 true!
Seeing the hammer I suddenly wondered if there ever was a revolver that had a hammer built into the frame to strike from below.
There are underhammer guns but I think most of them are single shot
Not quite the same idea you're contemplating but turret revolvers like the Cochran and Daniel's hammer from the bottom.
It's a weird one, but the Mateba Unica 6 has a hammer like what you're asking. It's also a semi-auto revolver. Ian did a video on it before.
@@johnsanko4136 Yeah the Mateba came to mind shortly after I posted my comment, but I was considering older revolvers who were often far more diverse than what we may have today.
@@LevinQGame Looked at the H&C Daniels breech-loading .40 under hammer gun. What a sleek looking rifle.
first choice when fighting the vampires.
I'm proud to be a Okie from Mazzocchi! A place where even squares can have a ball
That is Beautiful!
For when the exorcism needs a lil bit more oomf than holy water
The older I get, the more fascinated I become with older firearms. Great vid.
Next video.... The Holy Hand grenade of Antioch .... .
Ian must be visiting family.
Interesting to know that the papal states had a long history of existing and controlling a territory on their own, even if that territory was usually divided in vassals or subjects.
The Catholic church was an administrative organization, and they had a lot more power that people imagine, much more than the religious aspect.
The papacy launched the Crusades. Scarcely peacemakers when it didn't suit them. Wasn't it the Fascist dictator Mussolini that gave the Vatican City nation state status which they use today to qualify for a seat at the International table. ?
And also adds important context to the near constant opposition to the power catholic clergy had in other countries, historically catholic church was major land holder all over europe.
@@IamOutOfNames Ian stated that the Priests running it all had need for armed police for internal security. That sounds about right. Disarm the people and arm the security detachments. They are still very much into guns ... Swiss Guard para militaries. Not just ornaments.
@@causewaykayak Back then the people could own arms in the Papal States and all of Europe. Many didn’t because guns were expensive but it was way easier for them then than now.
@@causewaykayaknothing to do with disarming people, it's just that their police force needed weapons.
After furious internet searching, I have an answer. At the time, the USD was worth 5.18 Lira. An 1868 USD is worth approximately 21.60 2024 USD. So the Pope's Gendarmerie Gat cost a current day $233.51. With the total contract being worth $583,775 in 2024 dollars or $27,026.62 in 1868 dollars.
If you calculated that correctly, that was a steal. Maybe they cut the Vatican a deal.
That is very intriguing little gun. I wish someone made a replica of it so we could see it fired.
I doubt any few owner's of such guns were willing to lend an original for firing...
Where can you find pin fire cartridges these days?
@@philhawley1219 I dunno, but I'm sure someone makes them. Not necessarily for sale though. They are not rocket science after all and even rockets are made...
@@philhawley1219there are a few individuals in the US that make them to order, but they are extremely expensive.
This one has a wicked crack in the frame, so I wouldn't recommend it!
The value of 50 Papal Lira:
One dollar was approximately five liras, in silver value, so 50 were about 10 dollars. A Colt navy cost 13 dollars in 1872.
Ian is more than an expert gunsmith with a penchant for historical weapons, he again shows here an understanding of history.
Neat, it is amazing how simple this firearm is.
Fascinating little piece! Between the somewhat “unfinished” look (lack of cylinder fluting, miserable sights etc) and the furious marking of every single surface, it reminds me of those Chinese mystery pistols you covered back in the day.
Gotta say this looks very much handmade, with much care and proficiency, those parts really fit together well and smooth
What a great pleasure! A sweet and elegant pistol with a concise history lesson. Brilliant job. Congrats.
It's always neat to see Papal arms. The Papal States is such a unique part of history.
Looks like a revolver drawn by an artist who knows little of firearms in the 19th century. Lots of paintings with weirdly proportioned revolvers around that time period, and this looks like one come to life
+5 against the undead
Double damage against demons and devils
Nice shield around the base of the cylinder to protect the pins against accidental bump and discharge. Neat!
Neat little revolver. I'm glad you were allowed to take it apart, it was amazing to see that level of work and serialization for the age of the item.
I noticed some distortion in parts of the video, nothing major, but the parts where you're speaking onscreen seem scuffed compared to the lovely close-up work. Still an amazing video, just wanted to point that out in case it's pertinent. Could be a camera or software issue you'll need to wrestle with. Thanks for another great video!
Excellent job Ian!
the thread on the cleaning rod is for the full auto version ,
you screw the rod to the barrell and acts as a forward grip to help control the recoil
That's an interesting little pistol. Every piece of this firearm is handmade, and it's amazing. These are my favorite types of firearm; where an idea moves along to creation.
You'd think they'd get water pistols that squirt holy water
Only for vampires 😜
@@cedhome7945i bet that they fire silver bullets
@@Hwje1111 Silver bullets are for werewolves...
Ver cool, thank you for the report.
Missed seeing you at SOT SHOW so far.
Is the pistol still being rendered?
Does look like someone’s first time designing a gun in Blender.
Looks like
Really smooth clay
Finally! This is the kind of weird ass gun that made me fall in love with your channel!
I am pretty shure the rod in the grip is thread on the top to screw a brush on to clean youre gun after fireing it and because the rod is usable as a ejecter rod and a belt attachment too....the rod is in the grip for belt and eject using in service and after using at home also the rod for the cleaning brush so one part has 3 functions....
Pretty smart design:)
Great revolver and history on it and the Vatican, thanks as always, this would be cool in the revolver class BUG match!
That is the cleanest revolver I have ever seen. Nifty video, thank you
I would agree with your caption about the threaded jag. Its likely a brush was carried in the holster alongside it. But a black powder gun was never kept far from cleaning kit in this period i can't imagine. So i would agree based on its length and the thread being less than the threat at the bottom of the rod itself.
Very nicely made. Beautiful little revolver.
I often wonder does Ian ever have any ‘ oh shit I don’t know how to put this back together’ moments
Holy Damage Revolver
The Papal Lira was based off the silver price as the coins issued were made from silver. Converting the mass over with todays silver price (historic low though) we get 56PL≈188USD. Adjusting for the higher silver price at the time we get todays equivalent value of ≈317USD per gun and ≈790k USD for the entire contract
Ian is very relaxing to listen to.
Excellent historical piece.
My obscure Italian family name has finally achieved significance!
Mi mamá tenía el mismo apellido🇦🇷
I do like a sprinkle of history with my morning cup of Forgotten Weapons
It always stresses me out watching Ian take these apart just because I know if I was doing it personally I probably would struggle massively to put it back together again...
I've never really thought about it but the gun community usually has the best dad-like jokes in the top comments, amazing
"Our Father, BLAM! BLAM! Who art in Heaven, RELOADING!"...
"And He shall smite those f*****s!"
Hollow be thy points
@@weswolever7477Brilliant! 😊
I forget that the vadican has a crap ton of land. Really cool to learn about this forgotten weapon!
Pinfire cartridges are so neat-looking and different from our radially-smooth modern ammunition! The evolution makes sense, and you understand why they did what they did...with limited chemical supplies and technology, and different material strengths. It really shows why keeping old relics helps understand technological progression, which keeps us from unnecessarily repeating mistakes from the past.
I often forget that pinfire cartridges come in "normal" calibers, the first thing that comes to mind when I hear pinfire is those teeny tiny replica guns that shoot 2mm ammunition.
Love Marzocchis. Especially the Monster T, 888, and Z1
I think the threading on the end of that extraction rod may be for a cleaning head attachment to clean the barrel and cylinders. The extraction rod/lanyard loop can then also function as your cleaning rod.
Clearly the ejector rod is threaded to screw into some other parallel bit for a handy crucifix in the field.
You think you have seen everything and this guy still pulls out something new
Ian, it would be very interesting to see some videos of manufacturing machines and methods of this period
The gun deals +5 Holy damage
What a cool piece of History!
The machining, fit and quality of the revolver after all this time.🤠
I will say I do wish you would have short test fire portions of these videos
Hi Ian, more than Napoleon taking the garrison out of the Vatican, it was after sedan that that Italy took the chance of taking Rome. If France didn’t lost the war, there would still be Napoleon to protect the Pope, and Italy wouldn’t take the risk.
Nice video as always.
This kind of content is the reason I watch FW.
Ian finally got around to reviewing the Scarecrow's revolver from The Wizard of Oz.
very interesting that castel san angelo (aka hadrian's tomb) was used as a gun factory.
There was probably a long bore brush for cleaning sold with each pistol and threaded onto the ejection rod, but it is missing today.
As I learned at Liege's gunsmithing school the same techniques used to craft this gun, it's odd to recognize the same kind of marks and scratches that I would make on my learning pieces.
The same kind of file marks and finish. It give me a feeling that I know that gun even though the mechanism is new to me.
The quality of the craftsmanship may look a bit crude but from what I see it is just that it is not made to look good. My rough work-in-progress "finish" was pretty much looking like that but I tend to over do it (and lose too much time). In term of technique what differentiate this gun from a luxury handmade shotgun is that there would be an other step of maybe half a weeks of work or so to make it smooth and shiny polish and maybe some gold plating on the trigger and bluing the internal links.
At 56 papal lire in 1868 or between $10 and $11/revolver, I am not surprised at all to see roughness and tool marks. A small shop like that was probably struggling to make a profit out of the deal.
We are not mentioning the frame crack?
I think the threading on the end extraction rod/lanyard loop is to also function with a cleaning attachment so that one can clean the cylinders and barrel with the same tool. Not 100% certain but it would make sense.
Can't help but wonder, whatever happened to the Mazzocchi Bros after 1870?
On a mission to save a pink princess from a mutant turtle
I have a 1976 Ducati with Mazzocchi suspension.
@@philhawley1219Ducati, soldi buttati.
According to some bloggers who track Papal History, the F.lli Mazzochi remained around for a few years doing small-time custom gunsmithing.
Historical correction on the fall of the Papal States.
Their end was slated from the start of the unification process, as only Rome could be accepted as capital of Italy - hence why the patriots first and the Kingdom of Sardinia (the state that was leading the unification effort and would eventually become the Kingdom of Italy) tried multiple times to establish a confederation, with the Pope as president - except the Pope was Pius IX, whose personality was such that Bismarck tried to offer him asylum in Germany with the expectation he'd drive the German Catholics into Protestantism. Thus no dice.
Napoleon III, to keep the support of the French Catholics, made a treaty with Italy to keep Rome to the Pope, with Italy accepting to wait Pius' death and negotiate Rome becoming Italian with his successor and the French garrison being there to keep the uncontrollable Garibaldi out. Pius of course took it as license to provoke Italy at any chance... Then the Second French Empire fell, invalidating the treaty just at the same time Pius was trying to have the First Vatican Council proclaim him infallible in both spiritual and temporal matters, and Italy finally invaded.
Thus on September 20 1870 Rome was taken... And just to be extra petty, almost all cities and towns in Italy have a street dedicated to that day leading to the local main church (the only exception is Rome, where the street starts at the breach in the walls the Italian troops entered the city).
The italian troops had been commanded by a General Cardona, the father of italian Main commander from wwl. Vatican troops had been commanded by a german man ,von Kanzler '.
It's said that the Pope threatened to excommunicate whoever gave the order to attack, so they temporarily promoted a Jewish officer, I can only imagine that conversation
"You're Jewish, we need you for a special task"
"No way, I don't like where this is going"
"We need you to exploit a religious loophole"
"You son of a bitch, I'm in"
That's pretty hilarious that Bismarck figured exposure to the Pope would drive German Catholics to Protestantism.
Awesome thanks
Thanks for making this video.
Someone, somewhere owns one of these and has no idea what it's worth.
Loved the video on this interesting little piece of history, but I have to say that I winced when he popped that v spring out like that. Those things are typically removed under a spring clamp for a reason. The way those old V springs are made, they are prone to stress risers at the meeting point. Many a v spring has snapped in half taking them out the way he did there.
Theory for the threaded tip of the lanyard: it could screw into barrel or body for easier cleaning/maintenance especially with hand fitting parts.
*I really thought that instead of bullets, it would squirt holy water, and the cop would say "vade retro satana, you are under arrest!"*
I guess you don't need a big gun, when you're just keeping the choir boys from trying to escape
Ejector rod probably doubles as a cleaning rod, hence the thread on the end, for the cleaning accessories.
The rod is threaded to screw into lead shot/bullet that hasnt been fired. The threads bite into the soft lead shot to remove unspent round from the barrel.
Fascinating! But my main takeaway is that even Gun Jesus agrees with my contention that revolvers are a type of pistols.
What craftsmanship 😮
Looks well made
Pinfire weapons are so neat
God I love this channel
The ejector rod is threaded for a cleaning jag or slotted tip probably carried in a little pouch located somewhere on the holster. HTH.