Scientific Tool Review #2: NOCO GB70 Jump Starter -Part 2
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- Опубліковано 4 сер 2016
- This is Part 2 of the Real Scientific Tool Review featuring the NOCO GB 70 Jump Starter:
no.co/gb70
In Part 1 we learned how to characterize a battery in terms of stored energy and current output....
In Part 2 it's time to put this knowledge to the test and see if the NOCO GB 70 can live up to its claims!
I perform two tests: a high current draw, followed by a slow current drain to see how many Joules of energy we can squeeze out of this thing.
Also stay tuned for a real live demo at the end of the video!
Enjoy! - Авто та транспорт
Much better review that most... Being an electrical engineer, I especially enjoyed watching you dance between Amp-hours, current, voltage, power, and energy. Well done. The only real befuddlement was that 2000 Ampere current rating on the GB70. It seems like nobody really gets that. I've come to understand that it is really a maximum current under short circuit. In other words, the sparking you get when you turn off the current protection and momentarily tap the bare clamps together. It is an upper maximum bound, observed only for milliseconds. It is not a minimum capability (like cranking amps) or even the average current over the start. It is literally what they say... a peak. Also you should have Googled that Noco's units of "JOULES3S" means Joules delivered in 3 seconds. So, it really is a unit of power. The reason they state it like that is because they are implying 3 seconds is the typical starting time of a healthy automobile. For auto jumping, it really comes down to how much energy a jump starter can deliver in 3 seconds. The reason a Li-Po battery (that has 1/12 the charge of a normal battery) can still start a car is that Li-Po batteries happen to have a pulse current capability, similar to much larger Lead-Acid batteries, for that 3 seconds starting duration. To me, energy delivered in 3 seconds DOES seem like a fair way to compare engine starting capability, at least if the engine is modern and healthy. I would have liked to have seen you convert GB70's rated 15700 JOULES3S to its equivalent in cranking amps 436Amp (=15700J/ (3s) /12V). That would have set a better expectation for the amps you expected to see in to your load, if you did the test quick enough.
Excellent comment. Never heard of the "Joules 3S" unit, but the numbers would make sense. 436A x 12V = (5,230W) x 3 seconds = 15,700Joules is reasonable. But 2000A sounds more impressive haha
Often surge protection devices are rated with Joules !!! I wonder how many folks shop based on that feature on the box.
Ivan, one of the best performance analysis of an automotive test tool. Outstanding approach, method and demonstration of the Jump Pack function and capabilities. Real world analysis and backed up by the test instruments. Amazing how far technology has brought us, this little jump pack can start a hefty 8.0 L Diesel, amazing. Your equations were right on, clear, repeatable and units matching !! Thanks again Ivan , Great Work.
Ya know, I watched both videos and yeah I was interested in the math, the specs, and the validation of claims. But it wasn't until I watched Amanda jump the car herself and flash that sigh of relief and happy smile, that I became totally convinced of the usefulness of these portable jump starters. For the 99.9% of people who buy and use these things the specs don't matter one bit as long as it bails them out of a no start jam when they need it. Great work indeed Ivan. Thanks!
Ivan, Great tool review. I like your actual in depth calculations made so we can understand them. I learned a lot from this. Nice when a product performs as advertised. Great Job Ivan! I enjoy your videos.
It's nice to know we have someone in our corner to keep these companies on there toes. I might hang around to see if they modify the product to include a wall charge option. Hi Amanda, nice demo.
I just got one of these from Amazon today, so I enjoyed watching this review. After 7 years, still no wall outlet charger.
Great review! I have always wanted one of these to throw in my truck or my wife's van. I will have to buy one now.
Tremendous..! Throughout parts one & two. Thanks Ivan.
Excellent review, enjoyed that Sir.
Thanks for sharing.
Your reviews are kicking butt motoYam82 !
Nice job, I watched both parts!
Thanks! Definitely not the average type of review, but still educational and entertaining I hope :)
Best review of anything I have ever seen/ very in-depth I liked that
Thanks for an actual review! Most other videos are more of a demonstration of features.
Excellent Review, enjoyed it, learned from it. Thanks
Awesome! Well explained. I am a technical person and certainly like to see the facts.
Nice review. Great to see your approach. AA Roadside Assistance and Recovery for my wife..... although she is more than capable
Tool seems to do the job.
Great review Ivan
Excellent VIDEO. Great review.
Thanks for your review. I ordered mine today and it was on sale on Amazon.
Letting the smoke out Ivan. Cool video Thanks for you time making this video.
awesome math lesson as well Ivan .. I am going to have to watch this again and follow along with a pencil in hand
Don't forget the calculator too!
Sorry about the very late comment. Just catching up on some of your older videos. Great review! And you have a very patient, and capable wife :).
Great review ,glad you proved it would work as advertised. Also glad to know it will fit in that small of a compartment . I have a Buick Enclave with the same storage area . I don't think your pretty wife would be stranded long , smart man buying her this so she don't need help. Plan on getting my wife one now lol
Awesome review. I enjoyed watching it. And leared somethig as well :-)
Hello, you convinced me ( actually your wife) to get one, I have a SUV and those car are so power consuming.Thanks for the demo
Deine Frau kann sich selber helfen, absolut stark. Perfekt, Frauen mit technischen Verständnis, ich liebe Frauen mit technischen Verständnis.
Nice review & demo Ivan. I like my GB70. It was nice seeing your wife on your video & she did a great job.
Good morning My friend Ivan!!!! greeatings from Puerto Rico.... A little bit complicate but very helpful! I got in my Amazon cart the NOCO Genius Boost Plus GB40 1000 Amp 12V UltraSafe Lithium Jump Starter ! Maybe I will change it for the GB70 ANYWAY IS A GREAT TOOL
That was an awesome test and looks like a a worth while item for someone that does testing like you.Its pretty pricey for someone that just needs a boost pack and the fact it doesn't have away to charge it with 120 VAC is just plain silly and hopefully an oversight. I'd be willing to buy one of the smaller ones. Again well done Ivan and buy a new battery its certainly time. LOL
Hi I have the gb40 it goes in your pocket . charges in about 3 hours at 2a . I like it.great review all the best
I really loved that portion with your wife - was excellent! You are a lucky man, Ivan. :)As a "geekster" I enjoyed all of your presentation. Not being an Electrical Engineer, but having somewhat of an Electronics background, I followed along quite well. (If I do say so myself. :) Thanks Ivan and say hello to your wife from "one of your loyal followers.) Remember, Xl= 2(pi)fl. ha, ha.
Very, very cool!!! If you have any videos that you did a review on a power inverter please let me know. I FINALLY got my wife to do voice in 2 of our videos, but she already told me "NEVER" in person. GREAT JOB!
Thanks Timmy! That's a great idea fora review. I got a 400W inverter installed in my work truck, does great for charging all the electronics.
And my wife was a bit shy at first but I just told her to not pay attention to the camera haha. She loved how easy it was to hook up that boost pack!
I found that a lot of people on UA-cam want to know which inverters are best, especially around 3000 watts. I have done so much research and still don't know. looking for a 3000 watt for our truck. Something to power a 1.8 HP air compressor from harbor freight, THANKS!!
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Donaldzacky@gmail.coming5th
Hi Ivan, like your vids. I'm a fan (Eric O.; SMAR channel introduced us). You're very smart and talented, but the 50A. battery charger instead of a $6 2A wall adapter was funny. Yes, they should have included one.
thanks ..!!
I have been struggling with the question of whether this would do the Job
Thanks Ivan...... Great video. The jump pack operated as advertised. Good to know! Your wife was fantastic!
Great Job! Enjoy the videos.
Hey, great job man, thanks!! I have subscribed!
Great video. You really explained power well.
Great review.
Btw there are 72wh in a Makita BL 1840, "their claim" . I have no clue on max amp draw, but I have jumped my work truck with some handy rigging technique using doubled up strands of 16 ga. wire🙂
The data sheet indicates storage temperature max of 50C, will that be an issue for cars parked in the summer?
GREAT JOB IVAN , GREAT JOB MRS IVAN , YOU GUYS ROCK !!!!!
Hello, how many time do you think GB50 can provide 12v? To use tyre inflators, or any other 12v thing, as you did in 19:22
ok so can you stick weld with one of these?
What do you think would DIE before, the NOCO GB70 battery or the ultracaps of an homemade ultracap jump car starter?
Sure would be sweet to test the light (for emergency illumination) length of run time per level, from a full charge level.
Great review! I own a GB70. Noco does make a wall charger for fast charging. Pretty costly though.
First let me compliment you on knowing how to do the math properly! Very Impresive! Most mechanics would be very lost by now. At 11monutes you havent realized that the cables arent heavy enough to carry that kind of current for any period of time.
Below about 10 volts a vehicle isnt going to crank any how.
well done. good review.
I'm glad you cought the clamps being on the wrong side, I was about to give you a little shit for it. I've been welder all my life and that is exactly how you burn up ground leads and clamps, putting the side of the clamp opposite where the lead goes into it on the clean side of your work piece.
You make Physics almost bearable. I just bought my GB70. It did take a very long time to charge by USB port plugged into my CPU. There are plug in car lighter ports that do plug into AC., I think I have one. I think..I do ? I'm going out to jump my F250 that is sitting frozen for two days. It's a '75 so it is like a train engine, 390 c.in. Hope it is a quick start to a turn over. Thanx.
Great two thumbs up
Thanks very much for the lesson I learn a lot today thanks 🙏
What's better to buy? A $200 lead acid booster or a modern lithium ion boost pack?
THANK you for the thorough Review. Wow! Let me ask you, is it ok to charge it on a AC to DC coverter at home (I am sure its ok, but at the same time) also with the USB cable using an iPad white box charger to the USB both together so it gets more current to charge it faster? For now mine is taking hours upon hours to charge up this battery after taking it out from the box as brand new!
It's ok to charge it either way, as long as you don't exceed the input voltage specs. It does take a while to charge, but does work great, even in the cold!
I rented a 2016 Rogue for vacation a couple years ago, and ended up looking in the manual to find that the hood prop was actually attached to the hood and not the body...
Thank you for doing such in-depth reviews. However, I think you may have overlooked some issues. I am certainly not an expert on this subject. And only recently have been learning about these things, because I was hoping to use them as a power source on a robotic project. Anyway, here are some of my thoughts.
There is what is called the "C Rating" in relation to rechargeable batteries. From what I have recently learned, this is related to the maximum safe continuous discharge rate, and also is related to how fast you can discharge it and expect to get the full capacity of the battery. If you discharge it faster, then you won't get the full capacity. Also, from what I have read, lithium batteries will keep their maximum lifetime and number of charge cycles if you don't take them all the way down. Here is one source I often go to for this sort of info. Thjs particular page has a chart on storage temperature, vs. life. Etc.
batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
There is one other thing I think may have affected your test. When you connected your jumpers to the tester, you only used half of the connector's capability. This would have increased resistance at that point. The ideal connection would probably be to have lead studs on the battery tester, and bolted to the internal connections. But, since that may not be possible, perhaps you can connect both clamps to be connected to a single lead stud.
Another issue in regards to safety and reliability of the battery, is that I am concerned that a continuous high current draw may cause hot spots, that do not translate to much heat on the outside of the case, but do cause internal harm to the batteries or the electronics inside.
Thanks for the detailed comment! Those are all very good points. Battery life and capacity is prematurely degraded if the battery is stressed to its limit in terms of charge depletion and high current output. The "smart" electronics are designed to minimize these effects but real-world use still plays a main role in battery lifetime and performance.
But what about the 2000amp claim? How do they calculate that? (I don't think it can deliver 2000cca).
What would happen if my car battery died and I connect the Noco, can I leave it connected while driving home and will it recharge from the alternator?
Sincerely, Bernhard
No it recharges through the input ports only. It won't backflow (so to speak)
Hey Ivan, what load tester is that. I'd like to buy one
Hey Ivan do you know the max safe storage temps? I would really like one for my wife and back up on road trips.my worry is the lithium and experience with lipo batteries in rc cars,with them becoming unstable when hot or incorrect discharge/recharge make me worry of keeping it in the back of our cars.
As long as you keep it out of direct sunlight you should be OK. I have two jump packs in the back of my SUV all the time and have had absolutely no issues.
It's also hard to calculate drops due to restistance of hardware (clamps,cables etc)
That certainly is a very clean "oldschool" load tester, do you ever use it?
Also discrepancy of joules in your white board, 201,600, when the markings on unit state 15,700. Is this due to the cut off limit where the unit will stop putting out any current?
Always reckoned you were single, but glad to meet your lovely wife and a great in depth review of the boost pack.
I BOUGHT BRAND NEW UNIT I FULLY CHARGED IT BEFORE USING IT IT WENT FRON FULLY CHARGED TO DEAD AFTER BOOSTING 3 CARS (4 CYLINDER) DO I HAVE DEFECTIVE UNIT?
Hey buddy... I just came across your channel and subscribed. I see how smart you are and took apart a noco gb70. I owned one for 3 years and worked every time I needed to jump a car maybe 15 or 20 times. For the 1st time I needed the 12v output for some small strip lights and it wouldn't work so I did check it with my multi meter and it had zero output. I contacted noco and they said nothing at all. Do you have a opinion on what I can check. Thanks for your help
Need to account for what does the lowest battery voltage you need. To start an engine...As these NOCO's do not provide full load current. Though I seen people start a vehcile without even having a battery in them..
I would add. Asking that thing to put out 2000 amps. When the cables are rated for 200 amps. You would need 750MC cable to handle 2000 amps...
Nice review Ivan! Time to invest in a white coat to make it all more scientific style (Like a Rusian Hacker).
Question for all of you guys: Do starter motors really draw those kinds of currents? Continuously?
Well done Ivan . Ok what is the min voltage you require when diagnosing a car with a 10 amp draw. A 5 amp draw had you between 10.5v and 11v . Is the Noco capable of maintaining the required voltage for your needs. It will start a car but is it a good steady supply voltage for the field technician or should it be planted in the field . LOL
Great question Steve! Well with just KOEO, the amp draw should be within 5A, unless you have one of those "smart" cars where you can't turn the headlights off... Sometimes jumper cables are the way to go.
On Volkswagens activating the hand brake turns off the headlights. Not sure if that works on other brands.
Ivan, do you know what the lowest voltage is that a car's electronics will still work correctly on?
It's 9 volts So if the voltage drops below this point during crancking the electronics won't let the engine start.
Willem Streutgers Thanks, "Ivan". ;-)
9V sounds about right....maybe even a bit lower.
17:27 = basically 350Amp max is what Ivan's findings were for the noco gb70
Hi Ivan I use a 2A USB wall charger to charge mine. Manual says 7 hours to charge at that rate, not too bad.
yeah 2A USB charger is clearly the intended charger, but would have been nice of them to include one.
Yeah it seems a decent 2A+ USB charger would be the way to go, would be nice if they included it tho
USB 3.0/3.1 might be even faster if they are rating that on a USB 2.0 port.
if i have a 2000 blazer, 4L motor with an outdoor temp of -- 20 F it take a lot longer than 5 seconds to start, my last attempt failed !!! even with a boost pack
Привет. Во всех руководствах по эксплуатации авто говорится , что при заводке от постороннего источника, отрицательную клему нужно цеплять непосредственно на двигатель, а что в руководстве от NOCO?
no sparks - there is an internal relay so it only turns on when it detects a battery, unless you press the manual override
Correct! Great question and answer :)
Tongue out at 32:20 - concentration level through the roof :)
So the GB70 doesn’t come with a fused wall charger 🔌? My GB40 came with a wall charger...
You completely challenged my perception of this product, Ivan. I've seen a lot of in-depth reviews of various Noco products that delved into many different aspects of the jump packs, but I think you highlighted a lot of real-world aspects that, in the end, are more important. I'm still not entirely sold on the Noco for myself, but for friends and family who aren't as technically inclined, it's showing some value. :)
It charges from USB because each cell is 3.6 volts, all piles up in parallel, which means to charge it, USB is the safest way. Fast charging (higher than 2 amps) damages the cells, causes swelling if over-heated and cell capacity drops. if wall charger was a smart idea, they'd have designed it.
Project Farm has also done a nice review of car jump starters.
Great Video.
Now can you do a video on the GB40 - and Yes We know it's a smaller size, but in reality to see if it can turn over a V8 5 Liter Engine that has a weakened Battery.??
Getting the math right is easy, then just put the numbers (ratings) on the battery pack.. The real question is, does the battery pack actually have the capacities they advertise? Which most of the time with my experience is... No.. This was nice to see. Thanks Ivan.
What car takes 5 seconds to crank and turnover?
Is a beautiful piece of equipment to start diesel engine. So i bought 4 pcs for myself n friend. After 1+ years of stand by n use mode. Out of 4 pcs now 2 unit is completely dead. Another piece is half dead( can make 1 start than need charge.) Any advice from viewer. Cheers from malaysia.
Wow I've owned mine for almost 4 years, and it still works fine. I do use it a few times a month, so it constantly gets recharged. Maybe not using it for a long time makes the battery go bad.
I question the Lithium Ion Seems to me that this type of discharge could only be handled by a LIPO Battery but hey good to know they don't false advertise
Need to do this when power pack is at 0 degrees. ALSO a continuous 10 amp draw on a carbon pile load tester is not the best thing.
There is a NOCO Genius Boost Pro GB150 4000 Amp 12V UltraSafe Lithium Jump Starter on Amazon ($299.95) with twice the amperage.
Follow up Ivan. It has been 3 years. How is it holding up, how often have you used it , and did you change your wife's battery yet?
NOCO is holding up great! I even used it to power a small trolling motor on a sailboat this weekend!
What is the life expectancy of the unit?
Depending upon how you care for it I'd say it'd last more than a few years. Depends upon how you care for it though. The battery technology it's based off of (lithium ion) degrade with age, heat, and charge level. They don't like to be kept fully charged and in a warm place, so if you keep it in a hot area out in the sun while fully charged then you can expect less life than if it was in a cool place partially charged. To get near 12v out of it they are using 3 li ion packs in series, so if you never touch the unit and one of the packs falls out of balance due to a higher rate of natural self discharge then you can kill it that way too. For maximum life expectancy as an emergency jump starter that sits in your trunk I'd say don't leave it charged to 100%, charge it to 75% and use it frequently enough where you can recharge it back up to 75% (or charge it fully every few months and discharge it to 75% for storage). If you will be using it as a tool then just keep it charged and use it.
The GB70 has a 2 year life span especially if you keep it in your vehicle and is susceptible to large temperature changes it will stop charging the battery
Rather than use the NOCO recharging method wouldn't it be fair to also have a spare "cheap" or small 12 battery hooked up to your shop battery charger and then use the cigar lighter interface to recharge the NOCO? It does solve the inconvenience factor of having to carry the NOCO with you to re charge it. Maybe that it their method for marketing it to customers...having a second battery inside the car in the "glove box". I do agree though, a 3 amp D.C. charger should come with it to plug into household 110 AC volts. Seems to be a decent lith-Ion set up.
Thank you for that, If I get 3 starts out of mine NOCO BG70, after being doormen for 12 mouths in the boot of my car, then I'll be happy.
Why no wall charger ?
what is up whith the geo at 30:33??
Just got a new timing belt and oil change at 250k. Running great 37mpg, absolutely NO oil consumption!!
motoYam82 Nice!
I am guessing the 3S is the measurement of a lithium battery. Which a 1S battery would have a nominal voltage of 3.7 volts. Maximum of 4.2 volts fully charged. So the 3S would have a nominal voltage of 11.1 volts with a fully charged battery of 12.6 volts. This is just a guess. This is how the Lithium Polymer batteries are rated at for how much voltage they will have.
hmmm maybe you are on the right track there...that would make sense.
1, 2, & 3 s is typically battery configuration for the power cell.
In the case of s3, it is 3 seconds of load on the battery pack.
They’re all on sale right now if you wanted a second one 🙂 gotta love prime day
You should have measured the Voltage with that 360A draw. With that (and voltage measurement without the load) you could calculate internal resistance and theoretical voltage with that 2000A load.
Voltage meter in your load tester showed less than 9V? If no load voltage was 12V it would mean that it could deliver less than 1000A even to the short circuit. This would be less than half of the stated value.
Good eye. agreed, 1000A is not realistic, let alone 2000A.
Now using the data you saw in the video, can you calculate the internal resistance of the NOCO for me? You get extra credit for participation :)
To me it looks like the no load voltage is 12.4V and voltage with 350A load is 8.5V. This would give the resistance value of (12.4V-8.5V)/360A or about 0.011ohm. But because this uses voltage meter in your load tester this is the internal resistance of NOCO + internal resistance of your load tester.
If you do this sort of test again connect the voltmeter to clamps of your jump starter. Then we would be able to calculate the internal resistance of the jump starter alone.
PS: Why doesn’t UA-cam send me any message to tell that somebody has replied to my message?
The funny part is you can get a 3s 30c 5000mah rated battery for hobby use for $20-30. Hook up a few leads and you're good to go.
Yeah the battery capacity itself was not very impressive for the money. I would rather buy two of the "Pocket Power" packs since they come with all the different adapters plus a wall charger. However how much current can a 3S 30C 5000mAh battery provide? Probably not enough to start a car?
30c means rated for 30x capacity continuous discharge. So 5Ah*30=150A continuous about 300A 10 second burst, plenty of current to start a car.
@@mosesdog2 and watch as they explode as the alternator kicks in or the wire melts due to exceeding its capabilities common sense told me to buy the noco....
I mean it's obvious by the size of the cables that 2000a is not going to happen lol. I've used one of these a lot and it works good. Just bought the gb150 I wish I could find a video of it being load tested. It claims 3000a so I'm guessing it'll put out 400-500a
The manual override is for completely dead batteries you turn it on after you’ve hooked it up to the battery let it run on override for about two minutes then use it normally
Great videos. Science counts. But what is 157003S joules???