Wow 😮 I never knew you were in Michigan, awesome, awesome merge too. I’m in Michigan too, super into solar, did my whole home solar, super smart home, super into smart home automation, mechatronics engineer and hvac licensed, and have been thinking about starting a similar business, hvac and solar, would be awesome to connect…
We love to hear of new businesses! Here's what we think you have to know before starting an electrical contracting business: lp.electricproacademy.com/minicourse
Joel, I think its important that you not suggest that the inspector is the AHJ. That's highly unlikely unless the community is super small. More likely, the inspector is there to carry out the written code authorized by the AHJ - a separate person or entity entirely. And this is the frustration I have: too many installers and even electricians have this notion that whatever the inspector says, goes. That's not how it works. The inspector cannot just make stuff up on the jobsite and demand that you comply. If the inspector requires a correction, it had better be written within the amendments the AHJ has made to the NEC or other consensus document being used. I think too many of us lean into placating and thus empowering these inspectors beyond the scope of their authority for the sake of expediency - because arguing for fidelity in interpretation of the code does not make the company money as effectively as just adding a bonding jumper or whatever the inspector wants.
I am seriously aspiring to get into this trade been studying like crazy (fully expect to not know the ropes, codes techniques, etc and must be completely teachable. ) I appreciate your content from you and your team. Been a great help. Wish I was closer would love to learn from you folks. But dw about it. This channel has helped enough. Cheers from PA. Stay safe.
Thank you for the encouragement, @PsalmCourier! Here's our best free advice for starting an electrical contracting business: lp.electricproacademy.com/minicourse
Not sure the whole context of everything, but I'm assuming it's NOT a separately derived system and therefore all grounding/bonding would go back to the main service and utilize the "grounding electrodes" there. Sounds like the inspector is going back to the good old days when people drove ground rods for outdoor pools causing a parallel path to ground which can be deadly. That code has since changed long ago. 250.118 (B) literally says "uses not permitted for equipment grounding conductors" (1} grounding electrode conductors lol
What we're shown in the video strikes me as no good with exactly what you've just pointed out. 5 comments below, redrockroger made an interesting comment and continued this line of thought. Please check out my response and share your thoughts on my expectation of redundancy and load over distance, if you'd be so inclined.
Isn’t all those metal pipes of the structure already grounded and literally bonded together so it creates an equal potential ground plane anyway???? The grounding electrodes are not required.
I have installed 12 solar arrays on Iron Ridge ground mounts. Every one of them had to have a supplemental ground rod in addition to all of the aluminum mount components being bonded together with #6AWG. What I don't see in your video is a barrier on the back of the panels to prevent children or animals from contact. Your perimeter fence might suffice as that barrier, but if it is just a temporary construction fence, then the inspector should fail you on lack of barrier. Here in Southwest Colorado, inspectors want to see chicken wire completely covering the back of the array. And, I agree that the inspector's interpretation is "law", regardless of how you can justify with code citations. Don't even get me started with all the extra BS code which governs roof mounts and auto shutdown. 👿👿👿👿
Cool Comment! One of the things talked about but not detailed is the ground being minimum #10 AWG and the implication is that a heavier wire is required for spans of distance longer than X. in aviation, they have a nifty chart based on the expected current and distance for the run of wire to help determine the appropriate wire size to carry any expected (or in this case unexpected load?). When you stated that the installations you've been involved included a #6 AWG, I was thinking, "ah either their planning took the wire run distance into account, or the load expectation for combined circuits." Did your team ever run bonding back to the load cell those panel systems feed? And, did you run any additional grounds from the electrical box (circuit breaker panel) to new grounding rods nearby? One of the oddities shown in this video is how this gentleman showed us a ground rod connected to a second ground rod and then terminated to the protected assembly. I would have rather seen two verifiable/tested connections for low impedance to two rods in the ground for redundancy. If one connection to a ground rod fails, the other is still there to protect the assembly. As shown in the video, if that one crimp at the assembly fails, both ground rods are disconnected entirely. That wouldn't be pass inspection if I were the inspector.
@@nicomilanes3710 #6AWG not based on run length but on possible lightning strike to ground mount. This was basically only to satisfy code, as the pipes of the ground mount were embedded in poured concrete ballast and Iron Ridge certified that all rails were bonded to the pipes. Any lightning strike to the ground mount would take the path of least resistance, which would be through the rails to the mount pipes to the concrete in the earth. Ground wire was run back from inverter to service entrance and AWG was based on distance and amperage generated by inverter. That ground from the inverter was to prevent any ground loop. No additional ground rods installed at service entrance.
I never had trouble with inpectors in large city or towns but being Pa still does not have a state electrical license some hick little towns the only electrical contractor living there does the submittal & approval for HIS towns license then after your inspector passes the job several times they tried to fail me on BS personel code rules. One was for splicing a #14 guage wire in a panel upgrade. Gave him the NEC article and nogoodnic told me he would let me get away with it that time. Asked him for a print out , booklet or place on the web to acess his own codes. Nope that doesn't exist.
It appears from your description of what you have installed meets the intention of the mfg instructions and current code. If the inspector cites it as a failure then he needs to clearly reference what section of the code you're not compliant to.
I appreciate the short format of your video, but I was lost after 4:08 and it wasn't until the video ended that I think I realized you were plugging the purpose of your channel maybe. Was a confusing transition, please work on that.
Long distance inspections = no bueno 😐
We passed inspection though!
I work in Michigan, inspectors are tough here
Nice video! Thanks for going into the detail with the diagrams!
Wow 😮 I never knew you were in Michigan, awesome, awesome merge too. I’m in Michigan too, super into solar, did my whole home solar, super smart home, super into smart home automation, mechatronics engineer and hvac licensed, and have been thinking about starting a similar business, hvac and solar, would be awesome to connect…
We love to hear of new businesses! Here's what we think you have to know before starting an electrical contracting business: lp.electricproacademy.com/minicourse
Joel, I think its important that you not suggest that the inspector is the AHJ. That's highly unlikely unless the community is super small. More likely, the inspector is there to carry out the written code authorized by the AHJ - a separate person or entity entirely. And this is the frustration I have: too many installers and even electricians have this notion that whatever the inspector says, goes. That's not how it works. The inspector cannot just make stuff up on the jobsite and demand that you comply. If the inspector requires a correction, it had better be written within the amendments the AHJ has made to the NEC or other consensus document being used. I think too many of us lean into placating and thus empowering these inspectors beyond the scope of their authority for the sake of expediency - because arguing for fidelity in interpretation of the code does not make the company money as effectively as just adding a bonding jumper or whatever the inspector wants.
Those poles with vines growing up them look to be hops.
I live in MI and agree ... depending on where he is in the state, a lot of hops are being grown in MI
I am seriously aspiring to get into this trade been studying like crazy (fully expect to not know the ropes, codes techniques, etc and must be completely teachable. ) I appreciate your content from you and your team. Been a great help. Wish I was closer would love to learn from you folks. But dw about it. This channel has helped enough. Cheers from PA. Stay safe.
Thank you for the encouragement, @PsalmCourier! Here's our best free advice for starting an electrical contracting business: lp.electricproacademy.com/minicourse
Not sure the whole context of everything, but I'm assuming it's NOT a separately derived system and therefore all grounding/bonding would go back to the main service and utilize the "grounding electrodes" there. Sounds like the inspector is going back to the good old days when people drove ground rods for outdoor pools causing a parallel path to ground which can be deadly. That code has since changed long ago. 250.118 (B) literally says "uses not permitted for equipment grounding conductors" (1} grounding electrode conductors lol
What we're shown in the video strikes me as no good with exactly what you've just pointed out. 5 comments below, redrockroger made an interesting comment and continued this line of thought. Please check out my response and share your thoughts on my expectation of redundancy and load over distance, if you'd be so inclined.
Isn’t all those metal pipes of the structure already grounded and literally bonded together so it creates an equal potential ground plane anyway???? The grounding electrodes are not required.
I have installed 12 solar arrays on Iron Ridge ground mounts. Every one of them had to have a supplemental ground rod in addition to all of the aluminum mount components being bonded together with #6AWG. What I don't see in your video is a barrier on the back of the panels to prevent children or animals from contact. Your perimeter fence might suffice as that barrier, but if it is just a temporary construction fence, then the inspector should fail you on lack of barrier. Here in Southwest Colorado, inspectors want to see chicken wire completely covering the back of the array. And, I agree that the inspector's interpretation is "law", regardless of how you can justify with code citations. Don't even get me started with all the extra BS code which governs roof mounts and auto shutdown. 👿👿👿👿
Cool Comment! One of the things talked about but not detailed is the ground being minimum #10 AWG and the implication is that a heavier wire is required for spans of distance longer than X. in aviation, they have a nifty chart based on the expected current and distance for the run of wire to help determine the appropriate wire size to carry any expected (or in this case unexpected load?). When you stated that the installations you've been involved included a #6 AWG, I was thinking, "ah either their planning took the wire run distance into account, or the load expectation for combined circuits."
Did your team ever run bonding back to the load cell those panel systems feed? And, did you run any additional grounds from the electrical box (circuit breaker panel) to new grounding rods nearby?
One of the oddities shown in this video is how this gentleman showed us a ground rod connected to a second ground rod and then terminated to the protected assembly. I would have rather seen two verifiable/tested connections for low impedance to two rods in the ground for redundancy. If one connection to a ground rod fails, the other is still there to protect the assembly. As shown in the video, if that one crimp at the assembly fails, both ground rods are disconnected entirely. That wouldn't be pass inspection if I were the inspector.
@@nicomilanes3710 #6AWG not based on run length but on possible lightning strike to ground mount. This was basically only to satisfy code, as the pipes of the ground mount were embedded in poured concrete ballast and Iron Ridge certified that all rails were bonded to the pipes. Any lightning strike to the ground mount would take the path of least resistance, which would be through the rails to the mount pipes to the concrete in the earth. Ground wire was run back from inverter to service entrance and AWG was based on distance and amperage generated by inverter. That ground from the inverter was to prevent any ground loop. No additional ground rods installed at service entrance.
I never had trouble with inpectors in large city or towns but being Pa still does not have a state electrical license some hick little towns the only electrical contractor living there does the submittal & approval for HIS towns license then after your inspector passes the job several times they tried to fail me on BS personel code rules. One was for splicing a #14 guage wire in a panel upgrade. Gave him the NEC article and nogoodnic told me he would let me get away with it that time. Asked him for a print out , booklet or place on the web to acess his own codes. Nope that doesn't exist.
Why use a buchanan crimp rather than cad weld do both suffice as an irreversible crimp? Also why the blue electrical tape?
It appears from your description of what you have installed meets the intention of the mfg instructions and current code. If the inspector cites it as a failure then he needs to clearly reference what section of the code you're not compliant to.
This is all about overregulation!
I hate being an electrician.
Going to pass
I appreciate the short format of your video, but I was lost after 4:08 and it wasn't until the video ended that I think I realized you were plugging the purpose of your channel maybe. Was a confusing transition, please work on that.
Video stopped 1/3 way through, restart UA-cam, it would not show up in my playlist, I had to go to history to find it.
Michigan’s got a bigger problem - their governor!
Agree!! I am in MI
It's not green screw,fail
The only time a screw or bolt has to be Green is a Main Bonding Jumper or a System Bonding Jumper. 250.28(B)
Also receptacle grounding terminal shall be green color.