What Ryan F9 Did Not Tell You About Motorcycle RPM
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- Опубліковано 12 сер 2023
- Welcome to another exciting episode of Rembo's motorcycle insights! In this video, we're diving deep into the world of engine RPM and carbon buildup - two crucial factors that impact your motorcycle's performance and longevity. If you're a motorcycle enthusiast who loves the thrill of the ride, this video is a must-watch!
🔥 Topics Covered:
Understanding Carbon Buildup: Learn why carbon buildup occurs in engines and how it can affect your motorcycle's power and efficiency.
Low RPM Operation: Discover why running your bike at low RPMs might contribute to carbon buildup and how it can impact your horsepower.
High RPM Operation: Find out how pushing your engine to higher RPMs can help prevent carbon buildup and maintain cleaner pistons.
Balancing Performance and Longevity: Understand the delicate balance between getting the most power and ensuring your engine's long-term health.
Factors to Consider: Explore why the optimal RPM range varies depending on your motorcycle's design, engine type, and intended usage.
Additional Engine Issues: Uncover how carbon buildup can affect other crucial engine components and overall efficiency.
🚀 Conclusion:
Maintaining the right RPM range is a key factor in optimizing your motorcycle's performance and lifespan. Join Rembo as we unravel the intricate connection between engine RPM and carbon buildup - giving you the insights you need for smarter riding choices.
Don't forget to hit that thumbs up button if you found this video informative, and make sure to subscribe for more exciting content that fuels your motorcycle passion! Ride safe, stay curious, and keep that rubber side down. Until next time, this is Rembo signing off. - Авто та транспорт
Blow out the carbon or let it accumulate?
Higher compression!
(Or not)
"Ride careful, mate!" "Nope! It'll kill my reflexes!"
Blow it out. At least once every ride. You don't have to red line it, just stretch it's legs out a little.
ride like the wind. . . hurricane wind 🤣
Lots of modern tools help answer that question without guessing. If you have modern ignition and fuel injection systems you shouldn't need to do anything out of the ordinary for "carbon buildup". If you still have questions you can take a look at the spark plugs on occasion to see if you actually have a looming problem.
Ryan makes an important key statement near the end of his video: "... Never lug your engine." I think it's okay to use the low RPMs during low power demands. But if you need to scoot, downshift with your boot. Great video. Thanks!
Great point!
I'm fairly certain the definition of lugging an engine is when you try to accelerate in too low of a gear or shift to a gear that brings the RPM far too low. That normally wouldn't include cruising
In the UK we refer to it as labouring the engine 😊
@@kevindarkstar Loading the motor Downunder. Bike or car: downshift and get some revs. And some (many?) people do "cruise" by dropping their RPM (and speed) and then (while "cruising") attempt to gain speed (for eg an overtake) by adding power without decreasing the gear.
@@NathanaelNausedlugging the engine is the exact opposite. It's letting your speed drop, staying in a high gear, then accelerating without down shifting
I grew up riding two stroke street bikes, and my Dad taught me to never just cruise down the highway for endless miles at a leisurely rpm, but occasionally downshift and let it rev up to blow out the carbon. He said that two strokes(of that era) were built to change rpm, like an mx bike that never held a constant rpm, but was “cycled” up and down the rev range. Plus, it was fun as a young rider to downshift and hear the engine howl out of the expansion chambers!
Your dad was right.
It’s the oil you’re burning out, not the carbon. In a two stroke, oil doesn’t burn at lower rpm’s, so you get lean situations when oil pools in the crankcase and combustion chamber. It happens all the time with outboards, especially older ones, since they sit at idle so often. The oil can leave carbon deposits, but carbon isn’t the reason you need to open them up periodically. The lean situation is far more detrimental.
@@thagingerninjer5391 good to know, thank you! I am restoring a Bultaco Alpina this winter, and (hopefully) will have it ready for next Spring riding season. Judging by how much oil is in the pipe, I’m guessing previous owner either overmixed the fuel, or never revved it up, or both. Will post a video when it’s done!
@@bryanbrowning5746 that’s gonna be sweet! Some two strokes run really rich from the factory, to keep them out of a lean situation, since they’re really susceptible to predetonation. It may have been idled or babied a lot, or it may just have been ran really rich, especially if it oils itself. I just rebuilt a 1999 Yamaha pw80 dirt bike for my eight year old’s birthday Friday, and the crap that came out of the silencer when I gutted it was disgusting.
Cruising on a 2 smoke engine is bad for it , but not because of carbon build up but rather because the oil is in the fuel , if you are not giving it enough fuel/oil the engine gets worn out FAST .On the other hand oil can pool up in the cylinder which is also not a good situation . 2 Smokes need their RPM .
Load should also be considered. Low RPM under very small throttle openings (or coasting) isn't going to cause an issue. The RPM you ride at depends largely on the situation. Riding aggressively, I keep my RPMs in the upper half of the rev range. Cruising around not using much throttle, I keep them lower. If I need to speed up, I don't just grab a big handful of throttle and let the bike lug...I downshift.
I do the same in my car...which is even more critical as it's turbocharged.
Excellent point.
That's how you're meant to ride lol
If you are riding small displacement bike with low power output then riding in a lower gear and higher rpms is necessary only if you want more aggressive acceleration when you open the throttle. On a liter plus bike it is largely unnecessary to do this or even downshift unless you want real high acceleration or riding up steep grades.
My car is turbocharged and that produces so much torque downshifts are rarely necessary.
@@davidmatthews3093 Exactly you got my point. The guy who started this thread has no clue. There is a reason all automatic transmissions upshift as soon as torque load on engine is reduced. No need to have engine buzzing at high rpm with very little torque output and poor efficiency due to pumping and frictional losses and poor thermal efficiency due to low cylinder pressures and temperatures.
If there's one thing you should take away from Ryan’s video it's “You paid for the whole speedometer, so use the whole speedometer.”
He said tachometer (rev counter). If you used the whole *speedometer* on most bikes, you'd lose your licence and your liberty very quickly. He makes an important point, and especially now most bikers are middle aged or older and are used to driving cars. I find it too easy riding my bike around town to drop down to 30 mph or lower in 6th gear and the engine doesn't "sound wrong" because I do more miles in my car than on the bike. However, it would be kinder to the engine to drop down a gear or two. Although my engine can sit at 2,000 to 3,000 rpm, it's probably better for it to sit at 4,000 instead.
Yeah you're right ,but it would be funny explaining that to the cops if you get pulled over ,be wise where & when you take your bike for its EXERCISE 😁
Thank you for this video. I’m still new. After F9s video I started pushing the rpms on my Versys 650. Then I watched my fuel economy go in the garbage. Not only was your video the balance that I needed, but I have to give props to the comments. Just as informative. Feel like I just had a day in class.
Glad it helped
I feel we have bought our bikes to enjoy, have fun. Thinking too much about carbon buildup and engine life reduces that exponentially and comparatively how much life will you extend. Not too much I would say unless one is unreasonable in their usage.
I am not saying that we should be stupid or anything but rev the nuts off if you have the road and the mood, cruise when you want to. Primarily enjoy your bike and life 🍻
I agree
100% - it's easy to get caught up in imagining what's inside your cylinders, getting all worked up about it. Most of us end up selling our bikes anyway and I have never known an engine to fail because it was ridden imperfectly. Typically it's everything else around the engine that fails first (alternators/starters/plugs/fuel pump etc).
I've got a ZX-14 and just love riding at crazy low rpm because I know it can handle it and it sounds cool. Just ride the way you love.
Great thoughts! @@robbroy
Common sense goes a long way in allowing rider flexibility throughout the RPM ranges. I liked the author's tip for "balance" in your riding techniques. Babying any internal combustion engine regularly and consistently with low RPM's throughout the engine's life cycle will damage your engine. Conversely, riding regularly and consistently at High RPM's when unnecessary will prematurely wear your engine which can lead to engine failure. Balanced riding throughout the RPM ranges is key to a healthy well performing engine.
people like to hear themselves sound knowledgeable ,riding safely is not abusing your machine, dont overthink it
I agree 110%. From my ATV, motorcycle, dirt bike, snowmobile, work van and personal vehicle…. They all have different engines and each one has its own happy RPM range.
Nice discussion. What I used to do was not to rev the motor until fully warmed up. Bought my 1st BMW R 75/5 with 98.000 km on the clock. Had to change the pistons at about 125.000 km's. Rode it until 230.000 on the clock. (Was afraid for the chain that is running the timing. Later on learned, that this chain is engineered to last a 500.000 km's)
Long distance rides also help. Putting on 1600km (or more) in one single weekend made the thing purr like a cat, afterwards.
Thanks for sharing
Definitely depends on the bike. I had a Ninja 250 with a 14,000 rpm redline. It required 3-4k just to get moving from a light and usually needed about 6k to feel happy at a steady speed. Highway cruising in 6th gear meant 8-9k at 70-75 mph. It seemed to just love to scream to 13k now and then under hard acceleration.
Great point!
PRetty much. On my zx 14 I barely went past 7000 RPM. Honestly as long as the engine "feels" like it is in the range where it has some engine braking and the ability to accelerate effeciently, I think you are doing ok.
As with all things, prolonged time at the extremes is bad.
You cant spend all day at redline, and you cant spend all day at 30 in your highest gear.
There is also the safety aspect. If you cant accelerate in a bad situation, you can have problems. If you have zero engine braking off the throttle, it can increase your breaking distance. And on real world roads, saving yourself even a handful of inches in braking distance can save your life.
So yeah, that is my 2 cents.
The Italian tune works , it burns off carbon and in at least 2 cases , for me , it has cured an oil burning problem .
The oil control ring on your piston gets gummed up with a delicious mix of oil and carbon , can't scrape the cylinder walls as well , and thus some oil gets left in the combustion side to burn .A few good pulls on an empty highway at 3 AM cleared that right up ( after i warmed the bike up of course , I am not a savage that gives all the beans to a cold engine ) . So every now and then find a nice open highway and pull the throttle wide open for as long as your balls allow it .
As far as performance gains go they are quite negligible so do not redline your engine expecting it to find power which was never there to begin with .
And check your tire pressure , i doubt you've done it recently
I definitely agree on tire pressure. I actually checked mine before every ride. I also bought a really good gauge that it’s very accurate and I can keep track of what pressures work best for me under what conditions. You are absolutely correct, tire pressure is more important than people realize
I think Ryan statement on how 'low rpm' could damage your piston (hole) is a little exagerated. If it would be dangerous for the engine, manufacturers would include a 'minimum' rpm range indicator in the tachometer (with red marking and everything) just as they do with excessive rpms.
One of the older mechanics once told me to take a look at my speedo and divide it in two halves, like cutting a pizza. This is the optimal speed for your vehicle. Then when you reach it take a look at the rpm reading. This i the sweet spot for your engine. The rest to judge/or clean/ is located between the round thing under your helmet and the limb placed on the accelerator. Cheers!
Great tip!
I thought the rule of thumb is pretty straight forward:
“Ride in lowish rpm (usually 2.5k to 5k depending on the bike) when cruising, shift down before you want to accelerate away so you don’t lug the engine.”
I love it at the drag strip when I use the 2 step and holding wide open throttle on the 2 step always produces a lot of noise and sparks (carbon bits burnibg) and flames...great fun.
I went on a 400KM ride last Saturday and we were going FAST. Because of this I noticed after my bike sounded alittle different and felt alittle more peppy. Normally I drive around the city, so the occasional high RPM for long lengths of time can be healthy but I wouldn't drive around in 1st gear all the time
Yes it comes down to the engine design. And I believe the point was made that engines like to operate in different ranges; BUT it holds true that you really should use your whole rev range or close to it when accelerating and to not lug your engine. Piston skirts are getting shorter and rings thinner. When it’s moving slow at a high load, there is more side loading of the piston and load in general as he demonstrated with the bicycle analogy.
The advances in engine oils, engine materials and manufacturing tolerances means that high revs are not as harmful to our newer bikes than they used to be. We all feel it in the way they run smoother now.
Nobody is saying to be at 80% redline while you are cruising down the highway at a constant speed. But hit that hill or go to make the pass and it will be better for the bike, transmission and driveline to drop a gear and let those revs climb for the short duration.
One easy way to know if you are lugging it is to make note of how much you are on the throttle and if you drop a gear you have to give it less. That is what you want to avoid. Besides, isn’t changing gears and listening to the engine roar part of the fun?
As Ryan says, use all of the rev range we have been given. (Unless you are on an old bike or it hasn’t warmed up yet)
Like you said it all depends on each individual engine design and type. You have to find the sweet spot for each engine. A short stroke inline 700C will rev higher and have a much higher sweet spot than a single cylinder long stroke 650. My KLR 650 begins to vibrate and burn oil and fuel above 5,000 RPMs while my Nighthawk 700sc has a huge boost in the powerband at 8-10,000 RPMs.
Right on
This would seem to be more of a problem for city riders who never get on the highway.
I want to ask about the carbon on the piston, does the carbon-addictive they offer when I change the oil at a garage really help cleaning the engin??
Im glad you responded to this, I'm similar in that I typically rate Ryans content. However, (and i do totally accept this is each individuals own responsibility) they are plenty of bikes out there which (on the road) shouldnt in most circumstances have the full rev range utilised imho
Well said!
you are not wrong and it does feel more implied than explicit about finding either a sweet spot or hitting a balance of high rpm with middling range rpm... I think they mostly just wanted to say "don't lug your engine".
Glad ypu made this vid! Ive riden for the better part of my life but am NOT that mechanical (i can do basic maintenance but thats it). I do, however, understand carbon and burning it out because ive used firearm suppressors for quite awhile. One of my "cans" can not be disassembled for cleaning. It doesnt need to be. It runs a hot enough caliber that it (for the most part) cleans itself. But, with silencers in mind, i had to wonder - how much low rpm does it take to build up carbon and how much high rpm does it take to burn it out? Seemed like if you made the bike "work" once or twice per ride, the strolling would be balanced out.
I saw Fortnine's video before I saw yours and I thought the same thing.
Low RPM may then be causing more carbon buildup, yet (constant) high RPM will significantly increase wear on the engine.
I always compare it with a human who has a very stressful life up until retirement and then passes away shortly after; the parts are all worn.
The biggest stars in our universe burn up so much energy that they also have the shortest lifespans.
I thought about the balance you just mentioned, and similarly that there has to be an inberween balance which is not too "lazy" yet not too stressful.
I see a vehicle (car or motorcycle) as an extension of my body. I don't ride/drive it, I become it. I take care of my car/motorcycle the same way as I take care of my body: not too lazy (which may causes cholesterol buildup) and not too stressful (which may cause excessive body wear)
With a balanced diet, exercise and enough rest, the body is most likely to remain healthy. With good maintenance, the right fluids, not too low in RPM and not too high for excessive amounts of time, the car/motorcycle may remain healthy for a very long time.
Great information
Good explanation. Thanks for sharing!!
Glad it was helpful!
Hi REMBO, good vid, balance is the key, not just redlining the rpm all the time OR slugging along in top gear at 35mph with the engine protesting and shuddering 🤬.
The old guys back in the 70's used to ride that way on their obsolete but new at the time BSA's and they were such poorly designed engines running on single viscosity mineral car oil, that they really would wear out. Scroll forward a lifetime to the 21st century and the legacy of the old rear braking, low rpm luggers is still a thing......however, bikes are designed to rev now, and need to be kept in their optimal rpm zones which as you point out can vary depending on intended design use.
Oils are so good now they last longer and work better than ever before.
It's not so much about "blowing carbon out", more about keeping the engine spinning in it's optimal zone, with the occasional zing up to high rpm to check if the rider is still awake 🤭.
The worst thing anyone can do to a bike or themselves, is to overinflate tyres and over load engines by lugging them. Surely everyone can hear & feel the engines when they protest while being tortured at very low rpm (or at excessively high rpm)......am I the only one in tune with whichever bike I throw a leg over? I think not.....REMBO knows how to ride an engine........and he is right on the money with this video.
👍
66yo, 45+ yrs riding, not an idiot but not a lugger, and who says a grandma has to be a slow rider......there's a few lively grey hairs out there........we've got a few in the Ducati Club
That’s a lot of great information from your experience. I really appreciate you taking the time to watch the video and posting your thoughts.
Do you guys think for 2 seconds before stating that higher RPM = more pressure?
Most of the time, it's the exact oposite unless you're at wide open throttle.
1/4 throttle at low RPM means you completely fill the cylinder with air, meaning a bigger bang, this is why the engine revs up and accelerate you.
1/4 throttle at high rpm means high vacuum from the engine, throttled down by the butterfly meaning less air per cycle, meaning smaller bang.
Lugging an engine will always produce more heat. If you cruise in 6th gear instead of 5th gear, there will always be more cylinder pressure in 6th for the same speed, because you need the same HP to achieve the speed. Same RPM, lower revs means you need more torque, more torque means more cylinder pressure.
I run my Road King Classic on the interstate quite a bit. Bike runs far better when i do! Noticeably. It's an older model with a 5 speed and a stock 88 inch twin cam. It is night and day how that bike runs between high speed operation and around town. I have also just recently discovered that the bike shifts and drives way better when i run it past 3K to shift. It is butter smooth!
Very cool!
Exactly, shift through at 3k to just under 4k and smoooooth. I cruise at 2500 in whatever
He doesn't suggest you redline the engine all the time.
As put at the end of the video "you paid for the whole tachometer so use the whole tachometer " as in to say very the rmp. Up to the top and down to idle.
That is what every bike is made for. The manufacturer has already taken care of the different engine types for you by having a specific redline for each bike.
Not trying to be mean, but this videos title and thumbnail felt like click bait and the video preformed to match that feeling... maybe I'm wrong...
But as a former mechanic for yamaha Tokyo, I didn't find any issues with the F9 video.
Thank you for your honest feedback. I appreciate it.
Would you apply this to bikes like R6 that basically gives you the power when you're up to 10k RPM? I always do low RPM and sometimes i like go fast and hit some 14k RPM
Do it like your car's automatic transmission does it: When you are less than 1/4 throttle chose a higher gear; but when you are going somewhere shift down and rev up. At full throttle wind it out before shifting. And if that doesn't work, Sea Foam once a year (for carbs).
Good points definitely like you say boils down to engine type and intended use
Thank you!
Just going from memory, but in watching the F9 video, he was on a 2-stroke bike. Those old bike really need the extra RPM to get the burned oil out of the engine. My impression from the video is downshifting and keeping the bike in the optimal power range is important. It is better for the engine and safety of the rider as well. Lugging engines leads to loss of traction at the rear wheel when you might need it most.
Great point!
All engines have a sweet spot. Some small motorcycle engines need to rev to the sky. Some of the big inch v-twins don’t rev very high. My Buell XB9 redlines at 7500 rpm. It likes to rev within limits, but is wasn’t really built for it. It is important to understand where your engine is happy and ride it that way.
My opinion is that it's best to mostly drive where the torque is and on occasion when there is endless straight I try to wake up all the ponnies just under limiter. Never mind the consumption, when I back up I spare probably less than 2 liters on 100 km. It doesn't pay off for the boring ride at all.
As a general rule of thumb, i would say that every motorcycle has it's own metric but when you feel the engine "sing" flawlessly that is the sweet spot for me. Around 4000/5000 for a V-Twin in my case.
True, around 5-6k for my italian triple sounds and feels nice, below 5k and it will start to get a bit luggish.
So, i went for a ride on my 600. I tried keeping it in the higher rpms, and the bike felt alot faster. Probably because i still defaulted to top gear, and just ended up riding well over 100 for moat of the ride. Imma just bog it so i can keep my licence
I have a 2022 Kawasaki Versus 1000 (1043cc inline 4). The owner’s manual gives recommended shift points based on vehicle speed. It states to shift into 6th (high) gear at 40 mph. At that speed the engine is barely above idle. So why does it say to shift at such a low rpm if lugging the engine is bad for it?
Typo?
Different strokes for different folks! I run my bikes all over the useable rpm range but I tend to ride it like I stole it more often than not
I would carry it a little further, H-Ds primary chain can wear at an accelerated rate with low RPM as well as crank and main bearings faster wear with low RPM. Timing chains and gears wear because they are designed to run at a higher RPM. I have watched Ryan's video, both are good videos and good info. Thanks for sharing. Semper Fi.
Thanks for sharing and Semper Fi back at you.
boomdawg-What do you call low rpm's? My "99 Ultra, 88, A model, has original chain and sprockets. At 120,000 miles I returned parts I bought (clutch plates, chain, sprockets) because every thing still in specs. I putt at 2,000 rpm (45mph in 5th), loaded with passenger and gear. Not that I don't stretch it out occasionally. 140k on her now. I always allow it to warm up close to running temp before I take off. Also will hit redline monthly to stretch out the rods.
For me, low enough to hear the primary slap everytime a cylinder fires. I have a friend who replaces his adjuster shoe on his Sporty way too frequently, the main reason in my opinion is he lugs it around instead of keeping RPM up. I have an 883, 1200, a 88 and an old ironhead, I try to keep RPM above 2500, maybe a little higher on the 883 and 1200. @@mrkwnklr
So where is the sweet spot? Assuming the "red line" is the limit, what percent or RPM (i.e. shift at 50%, 60%, 70%) do you suggest we shift?
Wherever you want based on the type of riding you do.
The last time that I encountered a problem with carbonisation in and engine was in the mid 90's on a 76 Mazda. Just operate engines the way that they were intended to be operated. High RPM, low RPM... blah blah blah. You can feel it in your blood. And if you can't feel it in your blood, check the manufacturer's handbook. It will be in there, if it is something to consider. THEIR ENGINEERS HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS AND MANUFACTURERS HATE BAD PRESS!
Modern engine designs, fuels and lubricants have gone a heck of a long way from the days when carbonisation was a real issue. I've got an old vice in my shed that I inherited from my father, that came accessorised with a tool to secure cylinder heads for the purpose of decarbonising them. That vice was founded in the 1940's. It's 2023!
Use the engine like you should. Treat it well, give it a bit of a blast once in a while to "stretch the rods", get the oil flowing at maximum pressure in order to remove any gunk from the galleries, knock a bit of poop off the pistons, valves and head and it will be fine. No need to overthink this one, folks.
Operate your engine in where you need to operate it for the load. Know where your engine comes onto peak torque, and shift to keep it at or above that point when you need full-throttle performance. It ain't rocket surgery. The engineers put a gearbox in it for a reason, and they selected the gears they put into for a reason, and they put the redline where they put it for a reason.
If you want to worry about excessive wear, worry about trying to accelerate up the low side of the torque curve in high gear. You'll wear your rings, piston skirts, and cylinder walls out far more rapidly at low RPM and high engine loads than at high RPM and low engine loads. Don't forget that in addition to the higher sliding friction on a piston loaded at low RPM, you also have LESS OIL FLOW AT LOW RPM. Unless you've got some fancy electronically-driven lubrication system, your engine stays better lubricated at higher RPM.
I've never understood what it is with motorcyclists and pilots. Two groups of people who both think they know shit about their engines that the engineers who spent decades designing them didn't consider during the design process. No, you can't "shock cool" your Lycoming by doing anything short of throwing it into a swimming pool. No, operating your motorcycle which comes on torque at 5,000 RPM, makes peak power at 9,000 RPM, and redlines at 12,000 RPM between 5,000 and 9,000 RPM isn't going to cause it to wear out prematurely.
EXACTLY! Shock cooling is a myth! I have always run every aircraft at WOT! I only reduce power when I want to descend. As for turbines, a Turbomecca engineer years ago told me to run the helicopter at the first red line you reach all day every day and it won't develop those little problems that everyone complains about! Ran a whole season with zero glitches while the two sister ships were down for maintenance more than a few times. As for my vehicles, I can feel when they are right and I never lug them.
Agree !! Best regards from Germany.
Is there any rule of thumb regarding optimal engine rpm with respect to the engine's redline? ie is best to run at a percentage of the redline rpm?
Some manufacturers have it. Indian was one of them.
Lugging also stresses the power train by loading up engine and transmission components too. Speed = momentum which allows for smoother running. Detonation is a sure way to destroy your engine. You’ll pretty quickly get the feel of when your motorcycle is happy and the occasional Italian tune-up seems to really work.
I have a 2021 BMW R1250GSA and typically ride 200 miles + at a time. When on highway I use cruise control and the bike stays around 3,700RPM - should I be giving it a little more beans ???
You just go as fast as you want and control your gas mileage. I really don’t think that’s it makes as much difference as was reported based on the quality of today’s engine machining.
I have two bikes, an R1250GS that likes to be at around 3800 rpms as a minimum, unless im puttering through a busy street in town. My Triumph Speed twin 900 needs around 3300 to 3500 RPMs as a minimum to feel likes it spun up and ready, if that makes sense. Unless im puttering through town. I never have a need to go to redline. BMW redline is 9000 I don’t need more than 6500 maybe 7000 if im really getting it. Triumph redlines at 7500, really no need to go over 6000. Both bikes I usually stay between 3500 to 5000. I’ve been riding street bikes since 1984 when I was in the Air Force. My primary transportation today. Have a great day !
I think the rule of thumb is LISTEN to your engine, (for motorcycles at least), she will tell you if she needs to go up or down a gear. If she is screaming at you, raise it up a gear, if she is pouting, lower it one and open her up 😆
I rarely see 6th gear, unless I feel like opening her completely on an open highway and just want to see how fast she can go.
The part missing from both videos - where the engine is operating most efficiently. That is usually in the general area of the torque peak. Look at where the torque peak is, that is where the engine will most easily pull the hardest. If a rider looks for a dyno chart of the motorcycle they have they may find Cycle World or Motorcyclist have done a run. The torque curve shows how the engine will pull.
For instance the Yamaha CP700 engine has around 85% of max torque from around 4000 rpm up to around 8000 rpm. That is the zone where it will pull with the least amount of effort. Puttering around town one can run the low revs, but for best pulling power the engine works with least effort from 4000 rpm up. Staying in the range from 4000-5000 gives best most efficient performance. I can pretty much vouch for that having an XSR700. You may say, "well that's your opinion". So let's have less "opinionated" example...
When selling Hondas we had customers complaining about the pulling power and gas mileage of the GL1100 and 1200. Most dealers had those complaints. Seems they were getting mpg in the low to mid forties. We found one rider was trying to pull fourth gear at around 2700 rpm. The engine actually would buck a bit. We were amazed. Not that the engine bucked, but that the rider was that clueless. So Honda put in their input.
Honda said run the engine between 3500-4500 rpm for best gas mileage and efficient performance. Even if it means downshifting. Just happened to have an 1100 and my friend a 1200, going on a long ride from east central Ohio to Niagra falls. Riding two up and loaded we kept the bikes in that zone when on open roads, in the middle of town loafing along doesn't come into play. We saw a shade above 50 mpg. Seems the best power was from around 3500 up to 5500 rpm.
Find out what the power delivery is like then run in the low to middle torque range for best efficiency when on the road.
What ever your rpms is at top gear at high way speed (70 in florida), is the optimum engine speed. But its fun to hit the rev limiter.
I saw that too, It made me think. He refers to the "Italian tune up." I ride a Yamaha R1.
I rev my bike to max torque revs and change gear at that point. I also rag it from time to time. I think it’s important to use whole rev range. Same applies to my car look up when torque packs at what revs then use around that figure but not necessary in 1st gear
Liquid cooled engines are kept at the same temperature all the time. . And the EFI makes sure that it's running at optimum conditions all the time. . .
Optimum conditions to meet EPA regs yes. Optimum power, no. They don't build up carbon as much because they are running super lean. Put that logic on an air cooled V-twin and it run's hotter than Hades on Saturday night. Satisfies the Feds and cooks the oil and destroys the engine. Those who have high mileage HD's have had retunes to minimize the heat. A few years ago many dealers flashed the ECU's before delivery as a standard practice.
I'm often torn between fuel economy and comfort on my xsr900 vs having the power to pull away fast if need be.
Cruising around at 1500 rpm is great for fuel economy and comfort, but makes for a weak pull, and probably less to carbon build up.
The machine is happiest at 3200 rpm for day to day timing about, I think.
My Ducati 1000 at lower engine heat levels and rpm does most definitely cause an issue. It's fuel injected so no idle jet to clog. It will start dying at stop lights. My Boulevard C90 has less issues but was built for much lower rpm. I grew up racing 2 stroke dirt bikes and you have to keep them spun up. 7-10k
the sum total moral here is : ride at higher rpms but don't redline every moment - which means get to the midrange fast and ride steady if the traffic and roads allow it.
I say blow it out occasionally. Always tuned my Grandmothers '69 Impala when I was young.. After one tune up she called and said it was missing some. Took it out on LBJ in the metroplex, floored it and it chugged and blew smoke. Second time it smoked less and had better rpm. Third time it blew out remaining carbon and performed like it should. Never had any more trouble with it. So ya, carbon buildup, but that engine had points, condenser and carb. Don't know if that makes a difference with optimal tuning at different rpm's in modern engines.
100% agree! Engine performance is not going to suffer with minimal carbon buildup so operating your engine with only that in mind means ignoring excess wear/fuel consumption/heat buildup/noise from operating at a overall higher than optimal RPM. For many engines the driving conditions they're operated in dictate rpm and load so your recommendation of "blow it out occasionally" makes the most sense to me.
As Ryan states : "you paid for the full tachometer dial : use it all over". High RPM don't have to be constant high RPM. And the "balance " is very different between a 125cc two stroke dirt bike and a 1200cc roadster.
With clean modern premium fuel and premium synthetic oil. Carbon is no bid deal
Great point!
Well that’s not true. Premium fuel may have more detergents but if you think it eliminates carbon build up you’ve been lied to. If you want proof just take apart your engine.
you may have missed what ryan was saying but didn't explicitly say.
it's about operating your motorcycle in the rpm where it makes efficient power. a cruiser with a large undersquare motor and small cams won't need to Rev.
a r6 is gonna need 5000rpm before it starts moving.
your not extending engine life by operating at low rpm. the bikes are designed to be reved. lots of motors out there don't get proper oiling unless they have some rpms. Honda Vs needed like 3000rpm for proper cam lubrication.
your rings flutter less with higher cylinder pressure (more of a load issue) but when your under higher loads you also want to be in the power
biggest thing is people buying low quality gasoline. not low AKI but gas from stations that don't contain good additives
When you’re coming to a stop, Always Downshift like you mean it …to keep it clean.
Great point!
Oil change intervals are a major contributor to carbon buildup. The detergents fail before the oil degrades especially for synthetic oil.
this isn't just for motorcycles. cars too. you don't have (and shouldn't) push your rpm high all the time, you just have to make sure to do it once in a while for long enough.
Yeah i think i have some buildup in 1 cylinder. If i ride 30mph in town after 15 mins my engine feels a bit rougher ...take it out on big roads it clears up . Ride to work , same issue .. back out big roads it clears
I'm no engineer but I'm not convinced that surfaces that are directly exposed in explosion chamber get any hotter or receive more blast impact due to frequency of combustion. I wonder, does explosion gets hotter or colder? Isn't combustion process of defined, same amount of reagents always the same temperature? Of course combustion chamber pressure depends on workload, but then, isn't the first move of vehicle the most demanding on engine? More questions than answers but for now I'm not sure more revs mean higher temperature in combustion chamber. Do not confuse combustion temperature with engine temperature, those are different things.
Low rpm can be just as bad for the engine, and ryan addresses this in his video. The unbalanced forces of running low rpm will put pressure on the crank bearings and connrods
Ryan is a physicist. What's your education?
I always trust science, hopefully so do everyone else.
If you want to use low revs, do it when it is not damaging. Use low revs on flat roads, downhills, low drag.
Use higher revs, when your engine is warm, accelerating, uphills, towing, two-up etc. Basically any time there is a drag.
Basically, only time higher revs can be damaging, is doing it on cold engine.
If you want a piece of mind do not buy a vehicle with:
Automatic transmission (which use way too low revs to reduce consumption and emissions)
Turbo/supercharger (almost guaranteed to break after 100000 miles)
Four wheel drive (double the possible troubles)
Just match your throttle opening to your rpm, at low rpm just a little throttle gives you all the performance, if you need to open up more then you're in the wrong gear, more throttle is more stress without extra performance from the engine.
So long as a "soft" throttle can provide you the acceleration you are wishing for at low rpm then there's no undue stress on the engine no matter the character of the bike.
Constantly full throttling at low rpm I understand could increase carbon build up so don't do it and if you're still worried about it they sell fuels that burn cleaner like Shells V-power and such.
Thank you for offering input. We appreciate it,
Basically stay up in the rev range of whatever the bike has to offer. Not a specific rpm number
Driving my bike (GSX 1250F) around the rpm with the highest torque, so around 3500-7000rpm.
No major build up in carbon after 60k km, pistons look like from the factory.
Yeah the F9 video perhaps gave a false impression that one should always ride around in the top half of your tach. Bothered me a bit. Sure, push the rpm now and then to prevent carbon build up, but you can still cruise at low rpm to save on wear and fuel. Not 'lugging the motor' is ok advice but in low load situations that's not happening. And is detonation really an issue on modern bikes with stock tunes? I hadn't thought so.
Thanks Marine!
You got it, my pleasure.
Also, gas consumption. Higher rpms, more gas burn. Also, there are good additives you can put in your fuel to help manage carbon build up. Also, no ethanol fuel can be good for burning carbon out of your engine if and when you decide to gas it for your ride that day. Sometimes you want a chill ride, sometimes you want to skidadle down the road quickly.
Kind of like the HUMAN body you could say ,if you go slow in life you accumulate the pounds ,but if you exercise just enough you loose the FAT - CARBON ,great video .And don't forget part of the problem is poor quality oils & fuels that don't help .Stay healthy - perform healthy - RIDE HAPPY .
Knew a guy years ago, who bought himself a brand new whitefish trawler and treated it like a baby. Would never open up the engine to higher revs and give it a blast. The damn thing was ruined in no time with carbon build up. Sure it was a diesel engine but the same thing applies.
Good video Rembo , i have a V4 Pikes Peak and had wondered why it seemed to rev fairly high at 80/90mph (this is just my opinion) but maybe you have just answered that with this video. Thats where Ducati deem its best so who am i to judge. Just get out and thrash it 😂😂
Yep, ride like it was designed to be ridden.
So ride your ride and you'll get what ya get! Lol got it. I'm going from a cruiser to a sportbike and I'm having a hard time accepting those high rpms, even at 8k rpm I'm making that oh sh*t face haha. Just gotta get used to it I guess
You can do it!
Balance is the key. Lots of bikes can do the highway speed limits in first or second gear. That's not ideal for cruising. Many bikes have cruise control for highway drones which I use often. My FJR cruises at 70 mph just under 4000 rpm. That feature wouldn't be included if it harmed your bike. Ryan was a bit vague about what rpm is good. Certainly, gearing down to pass is good for the bike without causing issues. Seems i do a fair bit of that.
Yes, Running at a higher Rev for say for 30 miles or so at a gear lower than optimal for mileage is a good idea.... As for the cleaning of the heads... You can " burn off the carbon or dissolve it off " .... Carbon might be a lubricant in most forms.... but flaked carbon is abrasive, not something you'd want in your cylinders, better off to dissolve it away with additives and rev the bike through the higher rpm's to make this the method of removal over time.
Stay Safe.
Thanks for the info!
1:32 the old Italian tune up!
That's correct!!! especially on Ducatis they work better at high RPM
For sure with Ducati.
He was also driving a 2 stroke motorcycle if I remember right which should be run at higher rpm
I miss 2 strokes for sure.
Nice vid which at first, I thought was going to crucify Ryan, but you did no such thing. He would be pleased that your vid compliments his. And not everyone can think of everything so yours was a nice add on. Between both vids, awesome info for riders who care about the longevity of their engine. 👍
Thanks for that
I don't think Ryan will be pleased, or anyone else for that matter. He just made himself appear important by dragging a popular name into something so basic and rudimentary.
Absolutely and will again to clarify or question subjects that may be controversial so people will think for themselves.@@maldridge7630
The most important thing to do with ANY engine, especially a high revving engine is to warm it up before opening the throttle, first 10 miles and take it easy on the last ten before home.
Change the oil, change the oil & change the oil if you are hard on the throttle more often. Just my 2 cents advice
Ten miles is a bit much. Even during the winter (at least in Alabama) we've hit operating temps within about a mile, by two miles the entire engine is heat saturated and the radiator is hot as well. The metal has expanded by that point.
@@glenwaldrop8166 Yes, the advice above is solid for larger vehicles like cars but our smaller engines rapidly heat up and cool down so only need a few kilometers/miles to get there.
@@stanshingler I guess you're saying they don't retain the heat internally until a few heat cycles?
Took a minute to decipher that one.
FortNine's bike in that video was a carbureted air-cooled two-stroke. Sheesh. Four-strokes don't count on burning oil, fuel injection minimizes unburned gas, and the thermostat of a liquid cooled bike keeps the engine running at the right temperature. Also today's fuel has additives to prevent cylinder build-up. So sure, lugging is wrong (what rider can't sense that?) but an engine will run forever in the lower part of its happy zone. Every argument here applies to cars too and there are hundreds of 400,000 mile Camrys on the road that have never been past 2/3 of redline.
I maintain RPM to stay in the higher part of the power curve, carbon build up would never be a thought. It is as much a safety issue as a performance issue, if you are lugging the bike or pushing towards the redline the bike is less responsive to throttle input. Keeping the RPM in the higher part of the power curve allows for better control of speed (increasing or decreasing). For example if your lugging the bike and suddenly need to move (accelerate) you will need to "downshift and wind it up" verse just "twist the throttle and go", that delta in time can be important. Conversely at very high RPM there is minimal engine braking, without it I have less control. Only one of my 3 bikes has a tach, I don't take my eyes off the road when riding so it would be of no use anyway.
I think all he meant was don't use the bottom half of the rpm gauge overly and don't lug at the lowest rpm possible.
Easiest answer is that lugging it to the point of feeling the strain is not a good place to be.
Ahhh like all things in life. Moderation is key with all things.
I just lost my motorcycle license for speeding for listening to you!!!
Uh Oh! Choices, choices, choices
F9 bought a huge stake in Exxon Mobil just before the video 😉🤣🤣
lol 😂
I don't think it matters to either explanation. It is the same thing with cars. It is the imagination of riders or drivers to put to this perspective of RPM, at any given rpm, the engine is fine. The only thing to pay attention the quality of gasoline/petrol. If you keep changing the brand, it will affect the quality of gasoline. This is a huge deal because the final push for power is the burning in chambers. Poor quality gas can lead to more gunk inside the piston , and valve areas. For those who think gasoline is the gasoline, or all the same will end up with problem. Not the Rpm. RpM to help push the high pressure of burned gas out of chambers. It help a little bit to flush but the build ups are not from the low rpm, the quality of gasoline is. It is normal to get small build ups because it is a kitchen so to speak. Where can you see a kitchen is always sparkle? Never. If you put a lazy bad chefs in the kitchen, your sparkle kitchen will soon be yucky. So is the gasoline quality. Hope this helps.
I think it is sensible to spend most of your time between the engine revolutions providing maximum torque and maximum power. Everywhere else is less efficient.
As I mentioned in a comment to Ryan's vid, the actual story is more complicated and much simpler.
Long story short - to get rid of carbon buildup you need to run the bike at a slightly elevated rpm (for many bikes around 5000 to 6000 rpm, depending on the engine) for a prolonged period at constant (low as possible) throttle, i.e. no acceleration or deceleration as far as possible. (On my bike, a multistrada, that translates to cruising at about 150 kph / 93 mph)
Merely running at high rpm for a short burst may not achieve anything at all.
So, actually, what you should be doing is planning in some longer trips (highway would be ideal) every now and then to clean off carbon. Make it at least 30 minutes, longer if possible. That's it. And it won't wear your engine at all, it is designed to do this.
I am not going to explain the whole logic behind this, but trust me, this is all you need to do.
I thhink its only problem with diesel car engines or direct injection engines. Lugging engine is overrated. Sometimes on bad road i just put a 3rd gear and let of the gas and let my engine add fuel itself to uphold rpm. I did same with my work cars. Some of the diesel engines here at service is over 700k km, thats 4 pot 1.9 diesel with 90hp. Just put a 3rd gear and cruise at 30kmh at night shifts
Let's not forget about the quality of gasoline today, especially if you run oxygenated fuel...or do the Sea Foam treatment
I use Nitrous Oxide professional carbon remover on my 1100
Well that will surely blow the carbon off.
All things in balance.
An ICE runs most efficiently at its torque peak. My ZRX has a 10,500 rpm redline. It’s as smooth as an electric motor at 10k rpm but I’m almost never there. I generally operate it at 4-6k rpm with an occasional blast up high. It’s fine. My 4 cylinder Accord runs at 2000 rpm at 75mph on the highway. I expect it will last beyond 200k miles.
If you run your motorcycle near redline continually it won’t last as long as the same engine run in the middle of its range (with occasional blasts further up). Common sense.
If my Concours 14 wasn’t meant to turn low RPM at cruising speed, Kawasaki could have saved a lot of money with a single speed transmission. It can exceed the speed limits in most places in the US in first or second gear. My father told me long ago that the engine should always be spinning at an RPM where it can accelerate quickly and easily if necessary.
The Connies are built for low (for a motorcycle) rpm torque and operation. I had a '92 that I put about 120K on, great machine and do it all street bike. Still doesn't mean you can't let it rip once in a while!
@@brentlanyon4654 I just think that Ryan was a little too broad in his statement that motorcycles are built to rev. I wouldn't ride my Z1000 at the same RPM where my Buell lives. The relatively long stroke Buell is not capable of the revs and doesn't breathe that well up top. It is important to understand where your engine is designed to make power and keep it in that range.