APx555 Audio Analyzer Unboxing - My thoughts on objective vs subjective
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- An unboxing of the Audio Precision APx555 analyzer, a quick overview of my test setup, and my thoughts on objectivism vs subjectivism.
Thank you so much to all my patrons, Geshelli Labs, Audiophilestyle, and especially to headphones.com
Without your support this never would have happened and I can't express how grateful I am.
Come chat on discord: www.thegoldenone.co.uk
Support me on patreon and join the private telegram chat: / goldensound
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Measurements and written reviews: goldensound.audio
Into Track: "April Showers" by Proleter - song.link/gb/i/980592717
0:00 - Intro
1:00 - The APx555
1:46 - Stickerblast!
3:14 - The Measurement Setup
6:43 - Objectivism vs Subjectivism
12:24 - Patron thanks
The GoldenSound youtube channel, and all content is created and owned by GoldenSound LTD - Розваги
What's the SINAD of the youtube algorithm? Congrats on 20k subs!!
Its weird, every time I use the computer the browser history is cleared.
@@pascaljean2333 must be the update!!
really excited to watch your journey!
there are many many things that inform our perceptions and our choices
not to mention... the vast worlds associated within the pursuits of art and expression
best of luck and thank you
Finally! :D
Congrats on getting tha analyzer of your/our dreams :D
Testing USB devices with a standard power supply, rather than "ideal", can be useful for showing design flaws. A properly designed device shouldn't be affected by a less than ideal power source.
Absolutely, and I will test DACs connected direct to a PC as well.
Actually there have already been some interesting situations where the USB source caused measurable differences or issues
I would go further and say that if a product cannot perform without being compromised by a standard power supply then it's not a well designed product.
@degru5091 they do exist at around €80, eg CARE1. Isolation ICs will always be expensive to manufacture.
That is great news. Congratulations!
This is a breath of fresh air in the ongoing SINAD vs Posh HiFi Jargon battle.
I would love to see you use the AP to demonstrate how little power regenerators do actual signal that goes into a speaker.
Love seeing my sticker on there, makes it all worth it! Congrats on your success!
the quantum one XD
(sorry)
This is where the fun begins. Really looking forward to many more videos in the future. I'm always excited when a new video from you pops up. I really like your approach to objective vs. subjective. When I discovered Amir and the ASR forum some time ago, I thought "all these measurements are really interesting, this is a good way to do reviews". But I changed my mind when I saw some people over there being too fixated on the "facts" and calling stuff that is 'subjectively good' bad. A 50%/50% mindset is so much better and more helpful for us viewers. You combine the knowledge and objectivism from Amir and ASR with the expertise and subjectivism from people like Andrew/Resolve or DMS. You're one if my favorite reviewers already. When I saw on your homepage that you are 23 my jaw dropped. I'm 22 and wish, I would have 10% of the knowledge you have. I would be really interested to know where one can learn all this stuff about measurements, frequency response, harmonics and so on.
Yeh, I had the same experience as you when I discovered Amir and the ASR forum. I also turned away when people where very religiously about the facts and Amir not even listing to equipment when the measurements were bad…
@@angelorasmijn7306 It's sad to see when people don't help but instead just criticize others. I remember someone in the forum saying "It can't be true that measurements are everything. Why would someone buy an expensive R2R DAC with 'bad' measurements, when they could buy cheap Delta-Sigma DACs with 'better' measurements." and other people just told him "shut up and leave the forum if you disagree with us.".
If you are too 'objective', you lose focus. At the end your subjective perception is what matters. If something sounds good to you, why bother with measurements? They don't help you in any way if you already made up your mind.
@@SmashKuro I guess it is important to add that certain measurements only cover certain aspects. am not sure whether ASR covers all aspects relevant to listening.
I love your perspective on objectivism versus subjectivism. Personally, I think if there's an audible difference, it should be measurable. If we "can't" measure it, it's more likely we just don't know how... I think it's fascinating to learn why things sound different, not that they "just do".
Great improvement. Congrats on the new toy.
I hope you'll measure crosstalk measurements between expensive solid state and tube amps, especially ones that people say increase soundstaging.
Me specifically! Credit goes to the old Anything But iPod site, the founder of which pointed out the relationship of perceived soundstage and the frequency vs. crosstalk measurement.
So awesome to get to see you on this journey and I hope you continue your well deserved successes. Remember, don't let the haterz and the trollz ever get to you. They are just jealous and miserable.
I've enjoyed listening to your reviews and opinions. I'm looking forward to new videos.
Hey, we finally did it! Congrats Golden!
The freaking Amir sticker, lol.
hilarious :)
Congrats bud. Hard work and patience pays off.
You finally got the thingy! Congrats!
Great to see someone having a common sense approach to hi-fi. A great balance between science and hi-fi listening. Keep up the great work, it's having an impact. A lot of hifi people are talking about you...in a good way. Perfect! I'm hooked to all your reviews even when I don't understand the technical aspects.
Need more hifi reviews. Any chance of reviewing mainstream speakers Vers your pick? PMC, Splendor, B&W, etc.
Subjectivity vs objectivity - fantastic. Right on mate. Would be amazing to review some really high end dacs £25k+… The MSBs and top end DCSs. Especially the MSBs which I’ve see the measurement guys poo poo. But I’ve listened to and been entire blown away.
I always like your music of choice!
I am only a recent viewer of your content, so I did not have a chance to know about this new piece of kit or donate to help you obtain it, but I will continue to enjoy your content and perhaps in future when I put a new system together, I might depend on some of this detailed information and insight, especially when so many pieces of kit nowadays are not available for home trails or demos and we are forced to buy blind.
Thanks again, liked and subbed :)
Could you do a comparison with measurements between normal and those ridiculously expensive Audioquest cables? Would love to see if there is a difference or not
“Worlds best cables” vs audioquest cables would be interesting
There is not a difference.
@@joshgross8741 there is. Audioquest has higher RF noise lol
@@juliangst This guy is all sponsored up. Not very objective when filling the coffers.
@@joshgross8741 he once promised a double blind ABX test with that box that was built. We haven’t heard about it anymore since
Have fun with your new toy/tool. Looking forward to your reviews with excellent objective analysis and subjective experience. I know the forums you spoke of. I wouldn't be welcome at either camp. I found your channel researching MQA. Thx 👍
Your videos are great and a breath of fresh air GS! If you happen to come across a Chromecast Audio device it would be great to 'hear' its measurements :)
Thanks, Derek
youre awesome - first reviewer (i believe) that has proper measuring equipment that understands audio is a hobby and both subjective and objective is important / differences. keep up the good work.
Hey. 5Thanks a lot for great video! Looking for the results of your new explorations.
Excellent, happy for you! I can ASR pic at the top :-p, nice one!
Objectivism is a subjective matter and can be interpreted and pursued in many ways
There is always a market for quality, congrats and I wonder what you will do for your 50k video.
You should put a good quality oscilloscope on your wish list! I remember listening to the guys at Schiit Audio talking about how one of their prototypes measured beautifully on their audio analyzer but was a complete mess on their oscilloscope, one of their stories from their Q&A streams here on UA-cam. I believe the problem was about time domain. Would be interesting to see if there's something to those little stories of theirs.
@degru5091 I don't think so, pretty sure they're completely different machines, but you'd have to go through that giant manual to know for sure. Good quality oscilloscopes aren't anywhere near the price of that analyzer though, especially if they're used.
@degru5091 I don't know, lol, I don't design amplifiers for a living. Maybe there's more interesting engineering or mathematical implications.
Pretty sure buying the Analyzer was done for experimenting though, and it's not an expensive set of tests to do once you own the Audio Analyzer. Oscilloscopes are really cheap in comparison to most things on this channel.
This is monumental and exciting. Can't wait to see where this takes you, us, and the audio industry as a whole. Congrats.
Very nice. I'm planning an old Sound Technology ST1710B in my future. Low distortion would be nice to measure for my repairs. G'day from Oz.
Fence-sitters unite!
Appreciate what you're doing for the hifi community.
Was hoping to get your advice on something: What sub-$200 DAC do you recommend?
Wait, does this mean we'll actually be able to see if cables make an objective difference in signal?? /s
I'll try not to be snarky at you and assume you're new to the audio hobby but bro when it comes to cables just stick to physics:
ua-cam.com/video/dLghg0QXPzs/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/KzwAdwvy9l4/v-deo.html
Cables can make a difference if there is a resistor inside. Higher Impedance shifts the tonality to more bass and weaker highs but most cables don't use these resistors, so they don't make an objective difference.
I've had a difference with cables. Then again, the cable that came with my DAC was renowned as utter crap. The DAC did improve in performance when supplied by a cable that actually worked ok. The question arises really when it all works fine, and whether replacing a cable with a more expensive one improves anything. I just believe that if a cable helps your system sound better, then you have a bigger issue.
@@thenetpagan Nah I absolutely agree, I was 50% joking with his comment and 50% hoping that some visual evidence provided by someone who's reputable in the community would be able to put the final nail in the coffin.
congratulations :D
Hi Golden sound,
now that you have that beast, you could do a full review and measurement of the VMV d1se :)
Excellent content. Would enjoy a comparison of NAAs for use with HQPlayer.
Was listening to the hi-fi podcast and designer Darren Meyers talks about a case where having one component/circuit before another, the measurable characteristics of the output of the second, stay consistent as you change out what comes before it (which can cause things to sound very different). I have no basis for understanding this claim, safe as a high level concept, but if true, maybe a good partial answer to why we cannot say that things that measure the same, sound the same.
Just saw your Soncoz SGD1 review. Would be lovely to see a review (and comparison) of the Sancoz LA-QXD1 as well. Or a short 2 sentence comment would also be great :)
Good to see. Looking forward seeing how this can contribute and raise the testing level.
Funnily enough though, Audioquest might be one of the better when it comes to non-proved marketing lingo and often proved to actually be worse than much (very much) cheaper standard cables. Would be interesting to see if you will come up with the same result-because I take for granted you'll try to get a reference for the most possible technically transparent cable? : )
The worse results were only on their cables with the active dbs system. Not the normal ones.
Also it was only made worse by the fact that the test was done by touching a transformer to the outside of the cable which is..... Well not exactly a 'normal' test representative of any real situation
@@GoldenSound Try them and see : ) The big issue here is that they claim god-like behaviour but won't respond to those claims with test results.
I'm like you, I'm in the middle of subjective and objective but I'm also very concerned about how some companies market their products. Some of such (as Audioquest) would never be allowed according to EU marketing laws.
Not sure Audio Science Review has the same conclusion? Or is that what you are referring to being faulty tested, or the DBS system only?
I like your take on subjective Vs. objective, I honestly see no inherent conflict between the two. Measurement can tell you a lot about something but it can't tell you what your own preferences are. And any preference is inherently subjective. For example if you like a kooky FR then that's what you like, but measurement can still help you understand your own preferences. And it helps keep manufacturers honest.
measurements do little to tell you how something sounds, regardless if preferences.
Be careful not to disrupt the space /time continuum with that thing!
It would be interesting to see how different dacs deal with jittery spdif signals if you can measure that too, as some dacs deal with it quite well and other are ...schiit.
Quite a bit of kit. I would read every page of the manual.
Time-domain measurements, complex frequency measurements, and frequency measurements are all there is. If 2 devices have all 3 measurements identical, they will sound identical. This will resolve objectivism vs subjectivism forever.
Well most people neglect the time domain strongly
Nice Toy ;) CONGRATS!! I'm curious to know what do you mean by "COMPLETELY isolated power circuit"..are you using some magical device for separation ??;) Cheers!
At the end of the day I like to relax with some light reading like 'das Kapital', Heideggers 'Being and Time' or the APx555 Audio Analyzer Manual.
very nice :)
Thanks for being exactly what that the audio industry needs
Hope you also review nano iusb 3 and micro iusb 3 :)
Please do some reviews of things for a ~£400 setup. Thanks.
I think he has in some earlier vids, esp on some of the Schiit products.
I don't know if you know. They tested on asr and proved that cables can make a difference a while back. It was a $100 starlight cable
Do you have any plan to review the Burson Soloist 3x Amp and Unique Melody MEST MK. II? Thank you mate!
I like your approach of taking the best of both camps (objectivist & subjectivist), but with proper procedures. A big problem is individual human variance in response or preference. Some people are more sensitive to certain stimuli, others are immune. That would make for some fascinating broad range scientific study. Not for you, that would be more of a university type setting with a few thousand college students or similar. Looking forward to comparing notes between you and Amir.
Back in 60s I bought a real Thought Analyzer in a liquor store in Dallas ....It looked real ,too with a wiry mess of transistors under a small clear plastic dome with blinking lights and beeping sounds ..when I did interviews in my business people were freaked out and asked me if it was real ...They were never sure ...Old Crow was written on the base )))
forget about the APx, what do you think of the Zen Can at 1:25??
Nicely spotted and +1
he did a review on his webpage
Based on your thoughts on subjectivism and objectivism (which I really enjoyed), may I suggest to look at the Zen DAC? It get bashed by objectivists quite a lot while subjectivists love their sound.
i have the first apogee rosetta ad i want to calibrate the analog input trimpot +4dbu = 18dbfs the issue here lack of knowledge i just need a good analog +4dbu sine wave to feed the analog input and i don't know what is the affordable option to do so without buying an entire audio analyzer do you have any idea of a circuit of product capable of reaching the exact level accuratly
As long as there are groups(objectivist vs subjectivist) there will ALWAYS be bias. A wise man will never be fooled so long as he maintains his bias and seeks the absolute truth. You have made a very good choice indeed to find a middle ground!
Completely agree.
I think the 29.900 is for the analyzer kit itself and 100 dollar is for that massive manual book.
for me the gap is that there is no UA-cam channel to approach the audio subject from a science point of view. Purely science. That means observation-->Research-->Hypothesis-->Test-->Analysis--> Conclusions and all in a circle. We have either people on the observation stage or on the test and analysis. None of which are science independently.
Finally someone that knows that IMD is way more relevant than SINAD
With all my respect to the channel, I share your fascination with this splendid device. Look forward to reviewing the forthcoming audio patients on your table. Subscribe to every word you said about good in measurement but at the same time poorly sounding products these days. Thumb up for objectivism and subjectivism.
Fantastic video and I wholeheartedly agree. My first dedicated DAC (Tone 2 Pro which I use to stream music from my phone or PC to my Stereo and as a dedicated headphone dac amp) was bought after reading both the objective review (great SINAD) and the subjective (Z reviews) and they were both in agreement. I tend to be on the more subjective side though. For me, a dragonfly red sounds great! For the price and to drive IEMs over the phone it is excellent. I have no doubt the Cobalt is better still though I wouldn't buy it (for that price no balanced output is a big no for me). The objectivists will tell them that their SINAD is terrible and that my ears are wrong. I disagree. On the other hand, I like my dad's old Bose 301 series II speakers. Though my own 3020i sound objectively better with certain types of music (And they are better)! But i grew up with those bose so I am very used to their sound and like it a lot. To the point where I chose to listen music through them.
Also measure tt2 with battery supply and m scaler
Congrats GS!!!👏👏👏 I would still consider myself a subjectivist though simply because I don't want expend the time, energy, and money into analyzing my gear. Whether it's the showroom or the actual gear as long as it sounds good at my place is all that matters.
Bedankt
Are you gonna do a review on that Zen Can over there
Nobody has trolled you with an MQA sticker? A bit disappointing lol :D
Is there a Camina drummer sticker above your logo?
Thanks!
Congrats on the new gear! I look forward to seeing what you do with it. 👍
Personally, I’d love to see someone offer up a Mcintosh amplifier. Would be neat to see that kind of product tested by a third party. There are only so many $100 DAC reviews one can take. 😎🙂
Is that Amir photoshopped onto a monk? 😂😂
Congrats 🍾
You’ve put your finger on it ..if it sounds fantastic..WHY..that’s the rub🥳
Source/link for the amir sticker image, please?
Congratulations! Now put the Holo May KTE through it. 😈
Are there any audio reviewers that are in the purely objective camp? Every review I've read or watched where the reviewer provides measurements also provides subjective commentary. I don't think there are many purely objectivists out there (none that I can point to), but there are many pure subjectivists.
You have to do the "both sides are at fault" for politics reasons.
losers like ASR will use measurements to hide the fact that he doesn't know how to review things with any coherency or insight.
Hrm, while I do agree that there are plenty of things that don't measure very well and sound good, I can't say I've ever listened to anything that measures really good and sounds awful. All the well-measuring stuff tends to sound basically the same to my ear, which is to say, it sounds good. There's nothing abjectly wrong with it. Colored stuff is its own thing.
Assuming all measurements were reported and they didn't skip something like IMD, of course.
I have $3000 to spend on a headphone and I already have a hifi Arya witch one do u rek?
Would this device be able to determine whether or not CDs sound better than downloaded lossless files from streaming services? In my car, CDs sound noticeably better than the same 16 bit lossless music downloaded from Apple Music onto my iPhone X. Anyone else have the same experience with sound quality being better with CDs vs downloaded 16 bit files from a streaming service? I haven't bothered checking for differences from simply streaming as I suspect someone would blame the internet connection for any sonic differences. For this reason, I always download the music to my phone to prevent blaming the internet connection for the sound difference. I had initially thought the phone's disadvantage was related to the phone requiring an aux cable to send the music files to my car stereo. But I recently bought a new aux cable solely for build quality improvement, but it actually did change the sound to a noticeable degree. It helped separate instruments more, and dynamics improved. Still, the CD is the clear winner. As further comparison, I ripped several CDs in full 1,411kbps and added them to my phone. Those albums sound better than the downloaded 16 bit lossless files from Apple Music. Hmm.. Maybe we are not getting full 1,411kbps from streaming services even tho tracks are being downloaded? But then, should that make a difference? Anyway, this sonic difference has me currently pursuing an audio system that can play CDs. It would be so much cheaper and convenient to just use streaming services, but the difference I hear between CD playback vs lossless downloads is too substantial to be ignored.
Love the Poppy sticker 👌🏻
Why did i get notification for this when I'm not subbed?
finally someone with the same tool to verify or challenge ASR's extremism!
What is ASR extremism?
That top left sticker looks like it has a 3D effect
I don’t really understand any of this but I do like the SpongeBob sticker.
The wet fleshy bits in the audio chain are always annoying to deal with.
Looking forward for what's to come.
Keeping the wet fleshy bits out of the audio chain is a primary goal of mine. Therefore, I have extracted all whale blubber from my listening room.
Send one to Steve from Gamer's Nexus, we need to see noise normalized thermal performance. :p
Waiting for Bartok to be measured.
Is that Amir with a bible on the big sticker?? LoL
What's the best DAC
Probably MSB or DCS dacs.
👍
@daniel mellinger is an imposter and smells funny
The truth hurts...
Can confirm ;)
+1
"Smells funny" sounds awfully ... Subjective.
Now you can wear a monocle, have a high nose and drink your tea with your pinky pointing outwards.
Great video. I hope it all pans out. I'm tired of ASR nuts, let's go the middle way.
You mentioned blind testing to tell 2 different products apart but yet you keep doing subjective, fully sighted testing of a product with its inherent biases. Do you think this is a problem?
Good Bye, Stereophile. Good Day, GoldenSound!
Okay, but how did you actually afford this? Unless you have some very generous patrons, even if every one of your subscribers gave $1 (21.3K subs at this time) you're still short by a third.
No offense intended, just a thought.
Really looking forward to a third MQA video, if it's in the works.
Just an only 23old rich daddy kid
Incredible?
APx555 go brrrrrr
@kingjunguhn
Lord Farsil?