It reminded me a little of a scene in Enterprise. A baddie has T’Pol hostage and tries to get Tucker to surrender. He shrugs, stuns T’Pol, and then stuns the baddie.
Honestly, everyone being super supportive to Rutherford in episode 2 is when I realized, “Hell yeah, this is gonna be great”, it’s not like discovery or Picard, it’s what trek was from the beginning, positive, and I can’t wait to see that continued growth.
This is part of their agenda, Rutherford can be validated as a POC with a "cybernetic disability" for the same reason that Boimler is the butt of every joke. I'll let you figure it out.
TheZapan99 What? Dude, Boilmer saved the ship in the 3rd episode, and was thanked for it, he was also presented as the only person to be able to hold his own, everyone else was in the verge of death. Also, Rutherford’s been shown to be a bit of an overly-enthusiastic air head, what are you on about? I understand your point, hell if this was disco I’d agree, but that’s not what this is for man.
Whenever someone says no one asked for an animated Star Trek comedy, remember no one asked for Star Trek on a space station and we got one of the best series. What we did ask for was Picard meeting Kirk and we got a subpar movie.
When watching Deep Space 9, is there any doubt it takes place in the same universe as Next Generation? I can imagine the Deep Space 9 crew working together with the Next Generation crew, and not just because they share 2 crewmembers. You can exchange a character from the Original Series and the Animated Series and you would not even know it happened. There was an episode from Deep Space 9 where the crew traveled back in time to Kirk's Enterprise and, except for the art style, they fit right in. Can you imagine the Lower Decks crew working together with the Next Generation crew? Having a more comedic tone of following the people doing the gruntwork on a ship doing the gruntwork is not the issue.
I'm just confused. You think this is like Legacy Trek?? The Incompetence of the Captain almost destroyed the Ship? She should already, in Episode 3, have lost her comment. And you call it Legacy Trek WHY? Because a random, simple O'Brien-Reference??
@@schwarzerritter5724 There are multiple episodes of DS9 making it rather clear, that the DS9 crew is completely different to the TNG crew. The very first episode tells us, that Sisko and Picard do not fit together. The enterprise is held out of the Dominion war. And Q, maybe the one symbol in ST that embodied TNG idealism as a foil, takes no interest in Sisko after being punched. Back in the day people were extremely critical of DS9 and its betrayal of Roddenberry's idealism. DS9 enhanced Star Trek by being different and shaving the core of the franchise of unnecessary baggage. It did so by being different enough in its approach and worldview, but by respectfully dealing with similar topics and themes under a new perspective. The genre change, the comedic tone and subsequent exaggerations of character traits in Lower Decks are an issue having impact on more than one might think. It's next to impossible to imagine those characters in the classic Trek genre. Therefore I believe it is hard to objectively claim those characters can't fit into the Trek universe. As your subjective opinion, of course, but I doubt you can 100% ascertain the impact the genre change really has on your subjective opinion. It's just extremely hard to compare narratives of different genres, since they work with fundamentally different topoi, literary shortcuts, to convey similar fictionalities. Therefore we are bound to the level of meaning, when comparing shows of different genres, since the level of diegesis or fiction or plot (however you want to call it) uses different literary languages, that have to be translated first.
@@LoreReloaded I'm not sure hate is strong enough. That group of "fans" has a feeling of apoplectic rage (also the name of my ship in STO) toward Kurtzman.
I think the problem for me was that the same people that tried to sell me Picard and Discovery (while dismissing fan concerns) were the ones who then tried to sell me Lower Decks. Burn me twice and it's gonna take more work to convince me to give them a 3rd chance.
I'm as old school a Trek fan as there is, but I don't dislike Lower Decks. I have pretty much given up on any chance we will get a 90's, positive outlook-type Trek ever again but Lower Decks is at least closer than DSC or Picard. I see it as Star Trek: Orville and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Having standards is NOT nitpicking. And anyone who HAS standards will not be able to stomach this show. I couldn't even hate watch this past episode 3...
@@LoreReloaded If by that you mean I couldn't watch it past threes episodes because it was complete hot garbage, then you're absolutely right. Telling yourself that it's good doesn't make it true...
Not available here in Scotland yet. So seeing some animated clips was a first. Fair dues to you though it seems to be fun to watch. Apart from the first season of Disco I have found the new output enjoyable. Hopefully the new production team will exorcize the more glaring flaws and give us a more coherent new vision.
Yeah, I'm a big STP and DSC/STD nit-picket but I have been very happy with Lower Decks. It's a freaking cartoon and for that matter one which feels more like Star Trek than anything that has come out in decades.
I do like it 6/10 If I'm being honest. But it would be ranked higher if it weren't for Boimler being the butt of the jokes. I like his character call me weird but he's my favorite! But to see him shat on so much just feels mean! Sorry didn't mean to bring muh feels into this!
He's shown as super competent in episode three though. And in episode 2 if Mariner had done what he told her to they could have avoided all the following troubles.
From what I've seen, Lower Decks reminds me of two classic Trek fanfics - "The Celestial Parodies", and "Star Trek: Series?". The first is centered around the USS Celestial and its crew. A fanfic that asks "Why does every Starfleet ship have a perfect crew? What happens to all the misfits in the Federation?".The second, was written as an attempt to explain all the continuity errors in Trek... by blaming them all on Captain Braxton from the Voyager episode "Relativity".
My only issue with Mariner is that she can talk way to fast that sometimes I don’t hear what she is saying exactly and I don’t like that about characters, she has slowed down since the pilot which after three viewings I still don’t know parts of what she says I do wish they would slow her down a little.
Ok I'm about 2 minutes in and I have to say the video mentions that Gene Roddenberry probably would have hated the cartoon aspect to the show. Have I missed something genuinely? Wasn't Gene Roddenberry involved with the original cartoon series of Star Trek? Sure this has a different tone but it is still a cartoon.
Mariner is absolutely a Mary Sue, by EVERY definition of the word. "Mariner was most likely a Star Fleet officer at the top of her game". Citation needed, as far as I can tell, she's a young ensign who acquired her position through nepotism, much like Wesley Crusher. "She probably became an alcoholic at that point". Again, citation needed. Her being an alcoholic apparently means that she can drink a Klingon under the table without being fazed by it. Which is actually just another virtue of her impeccable perfection. IE: Another trait of her being a Mary Sue. "She has been the blunt instrument of the group". This is a lie. You have FOOTAGE of this being a lie in your episode. When Boimler pulls his weapon on the farmers, HE is being the blunt instrument, and she suddenly changes character to be the understanding and reserved one. Why? Because that's the one point where being the blunt instrument is wrong. And, with it being the wrong position, it cannot be given to a Mary Sue. "She causes problems and puts people around her in danger" and does not suffer because of it, because she suffers from nothing. And, again, her position turns out to universally be the correct one. Also, I haven't seen anyone say that Boimler is bumbling. Most people I've seen view him as the most competent character in the Lower Decks crew, but placed into a world in which he is destined to fail, as the entire show is written to mock and belittle him. "This will be a part of his arc". What evidence do you have that he has an arc at all? And, yes. Riker mocked a character ONCE. ONCE. Not every minute of every episode. Have YOU actually watched the show? Or are you just going to go "dur hur, you obviously didn't watch" the way you do to every critical comment put up here?
@@LoreReloaded No, I haven't. I don't have the network myself, so I can only catch them when I'm visiting the friend who does (thankfully can actually visit people again here). Which does mean I am hearing about them before I watch them, which likely is coloring my perception (to be fair, I rarely watch things right when they come out, I'm two weeks late on this video, for example).
I generally agree with you...and I liked your view of Mariner as a broken officer. I hadn't thought of that before and I believe you could be right. I prefer that to the thought that she's just a badly-written a**hole.
Except she is just a badly written a-hole. She isn't a broken officer. She's an ensign who only reached and maintained her position because of nepotism, and who makes it her life's work to harass and berate her crewmates into helping her destroy the Federation (by literally ignoring or rewriting every rule and procedure it has).
@@Skyblade12 I disagree that having Mariner be *ahem* abrasive automatically equates to "badly written a hole". I think her MANY faults provide room for growth and storytelling. THAT is what I've been longing for, after all- good storytelling.
@@ronaldclise4139 Room for growth only exists if her faults are faults. When she turns out to be correct about everything, she has no faults. Example: She's a lazy officer who doesn't care about her job. Result of this? She's proven correct, and that being efficient and diligent doesn't work for the ship, and thus her lazy buffer time is accepted. No lesson learned. Example 2: She tends to jump into things with an action oriented mindset, being active and abrasive. So, when they encounter farmers and there's a misunderstanding and they're mistaken for enemies, she starts shooting first, and... Oh, wait, no. That trait is switched onto Boimler for that encounter, because we can't have her actually acknowledging a fault in her behavior or learning a lesson. Example 3: She's convinced that Boimler is a loser that doesn't have a real girlfriend who likes him for who he is, so she spends an episode deconstructing his relationship and finds out...that she's absolutely correct. Again, no lesson learned. Example 4: She is careless with a bat'leth and stabs Boimler, and from this she learns to be so careful with weapons that she later discharges phasor bursts (with a phasor set to kill) at him because a shield will protect him. Again, no lesson learned. There is no growth if the character is always right.
lore reloaded likes lower decks because cbs paid him for the use of his naked towel character. dont act like you dont know im talking about i cant unsee that video lore. i still see it when i close my eyes at night. damn this video proves me wrong.
It's far from perfect but LD is much closer to the Trek we love than Disco/Picard.....which is saying something when you consider LD is a cartoon with the primary goal of being funny
In Season 2 of Star Trek: Discovery, I think they got the Klingons right. They did start looking like TNG era Klingons, and Season 2 did start to feel more like the Star Trek I grew up watching back in the 1990s and early 2000s.
Yes! I'm glad others feel this way too! Recent Trek has mission/quest driven conflict. I think Lower Decks emphasizes character driven conflict similar to Legacy Trek. The comedy is okay but I prefer the character focused storytelling.
@@floydlooney6837 Incompetent, dumb characters aren't very entertaining to watch. Most officers in Starfleet can be described as a "Mary Sue" -- maybe that's the future, maybe good work ethic, or maybe it's how you write entertaining stories. None of these characters are bad people, but targeting the white man is weird for you to do. Skin color isn't a character trait or something to criticize, get over it!
I highly recommend “Improvised Star Trek,” a comedic podcast series that ended last year upon a similarly inept ship, the USS Sisyphus, and its crew of random miscreants yet still has the feel of old school Trek.
Lower Decks is definitely growing on me and i dont think its just the trek withdrawal symptoms. There are too many loud and bitter people out there who only focus on the negative. Glad to hear your take on it.
The more I watch this show the more I like it and the further away I get from my original assessment that it was Rick and Morty with a Star Trek skin on it. The newest Episode which premiered today just reinforces to me that despite being a comedy, Lower Decks is more trek than Discovery or Picard. I loved the background plot for this one and almost wish it had been used in a proper episode of TNG cause it was actually kinda awesome. Spoiler alert!! They're recovering an ancient Ark Ship ship filled with a liquid that converts in-organic material into organic material for instant Terra forming. I think I'm gonna call the stuff "Genesis Juice" since it's bascially Genesis, the Technology in liquid form.
@Joshua D I'm sorry, did you even read my post. In what way was I complimentary towards Discovery and Picard? All I said was that so far Lower Decks is more in line with Star Trek than they are which isn't saying much but I am enjoying the show. I don't take it too seriously which I think is required to enjoy it. Picard and Discovery though are a dumpster fire.
@Joshua D If you don't like it, you don't have to watch it. There's this great thing called free will, you can exercise it and find something you enjoy. Also everyone is different. We all like and enjoy different things for different reasons. To use a Star Trek-ism, Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. In summation your opinion has been noted, I don't agree but that's okay.
@Joshua D Yes, actually. A lot of it's vapidity is lost on modern audiences because they're missing the right social context and mistake it for something "deep" when it was written in the most superficial way possible.
You've perfectly described my feelings about this show! It doesn't bother me when a joke falls a little flat, or a reference gets a little too pandering, because at it's heart, this is far closer to Star Trek than anything we've gotten since Enterprise.
I think this is my favorite Lore video ever. The point of lore videos in general is to take cheesy TV shows and give them too much credit, give them the honor of analyzing them. The literary conceit is that we all know it’s just a TV show and we don’t have to argue over it. At least that’s how it should be. This video is so concise and fair while still expressing the Trek fan experience.
For a longtime I thought a Star Trek series that used our old favorite actors should be animated so they could be any age any timeframe & a live action series should pick-up where legacy Trek left off. Not to say I don't like Lower Decks because I do. Let's give it love so they continue in this more positive direction.
In case anyone still thinks this show is pushing anti-straight white male agendas...the third episode makes the two straight white males the most competent characters in the entire episode.
I also liked it but for a far far simpler reason. When I watched STD and Picard, pretty much every episode ended in me being bummed out. Discovery just because every episode was just not the Star Trek I was looking for and Picard mostly for just being a downer. Seriously, who wants to watch a series about their childhood heroes getting old and feeble then dying? Lower Decks is fun, it may not blaze any new trails or wow me with epic story lines like we got from earlier series but I can watch it and not feel depressed about it. That's worth something.
I'm glad to see someone give something new a chance. All too often people will tune out and begin blindly hating anything new in a franchise after something bad comes out. It's not fair to the media or its creators to do that, and it's not fair to yourself either as you can miss out on something you might've enjoyed just because you want to jump on a bandwagon.
Personally, I'm enjoying the new Lore style. And I'm looking forward to seeing STLD when there's access in the UK. Totally agree with the point that there's an air of if there's something new it must be hated.... could it be that ST is trying to find the right story-telling platform for our times? And we still have Strange New Worlds to look forward to!
As someone who loathed ST:D and Picard, I was surprised to find myself enjoying this. It's a breezy, well animated cartoon and the writers clearly love Star Trek. Yeah it's a bit childish, but it never tries to shove politics down your throat. In fact it's somewhat closer to Roddenberry's ideals, not least because it's the first series since Enterprise to paint Starfleet in a positive light. It's been a bloody terrible year and we're all exhausted. Personally I'm just happy to watch something hopeful for a change.
I really enjoy LD. It’s a lot of fun. Since it’s canon, my own head canon is that things happen but not exactly as we see them. What we see is a comedic retelling of real events.
After watching (too much) Midnight's Edge, I finally got my Crave subscription and watched Star Trek: Picard. Honestly? It literally blew me away how surprisingly good it was. Yes, it's certainly no episodic ST:TNG. It felt more like Discovery in terms of pacing, but a LOT more like Star Trek: DS9. (SPOILERS AHEAD) . . . . . Truthfully, it hit me really damn hard, and I loved every piece of it (though I felt that the size of the Federation Fleet was a bit huge, and Commander Riker being in charge of it as an acting captain was a bit much (though, to be fair, the in-universe explanation is because of his connection with Picard, and that Picard already gave him first-hand information on the situation). . Seeing Seven becoming such a bad-ass, not to mention becoming far more "human", was really nice, and seeing her become a Borg Queen if only for a brief moment, was probably once of the coolest things I've ever seen. And seeing Hue again was very exciting, and the emotional impact of his death really hit me hard (yet the whole situation was believable, considering the circumstances). Same could be said for the shocking death of Maddox, someone who, if you didn't know TNG, would mean nothing; but for someone who is very familiar with "Measure of a Man," hits you square in the nuts. . There were SO many tie-ins with all levels of Trek in Picard, and made the entire plot make a ton of sense - Romulans trying hard to rebuild, Federation becoming paranoid and corrupt after the beating they received in post-Dominion War, Picard's illness, Hue becoming a major proponent of deborgification after his appearances in TNG, Riker and Troy finally settling down, Picard's horrendous PTSD regarding both the Borg and Data's death, and Data finally having 'children' of his own. Of course, there were some creative liberties when it comes to the entire Data plot, but in the end, I was in tears (a rarity for me) when I was watching the last 15 minutes of the season finale, finally receiving the closure that I felt was missing after the events of Nemesis. Ultimately, I feel like Picard feels like what the Federation would legitimately be like 20 years post-Nemesis, including the politics (I mean.... DS9's "Home Front" essentially IS this premise during the Dominion War). . Ultimately, I feel like Picard isn't being given enough credit, because Discovery as a concept has been horribly flawed, there were some design decisions that didn't make a whole lot of sense (those massive hollow interiors during the turbolift scenes, for example), and a lot of creative decisions that put severe pressure onto canon (Spore drive, Klingon War, etc). There were many amazing moments, but I felt it came off the rails in quite a few places. . You've finally convinced me to watch Lower Decks. With how impressed I was with Picard, and how excited I am to see the next season, you may be right and I shouldn't write this off based on the 'feel' alone.
I haven't seen Lower decks yet But I have seen a few clips ... and people nitpicking how the guy (Boimer?) didn't rat out his cremate for selling farming equipment and than the tear down of Wesley by Picard .... buuut they failed to include any clip of ... let's say Picard telling Data braking the rules to save the exocomps was the most human decision he ever made
I love Lower Decks, more than Picard, and Discovery. I've really enjoyed the series so far, these are ensigns who are at the beginning of their careers, and I do think this of Mariner as at the beginning. They will grow with time. Boimler needs to be given a few less pot shots taken to him, and I'm hoping that 'real life' experience will have him blossom into a commander/captain. (Nice shot at Riker btw). As far as the genre is concerned, I think the best way to show the ensigns of Lower Decks is through comedy.
While I like to think things will improve (maybe) I think it's the spirit of these first few episodes that are turning people like me off. Does anyone remember the movie "The Majestic" with Jim Carrey? Did badly and I think it was because people who liked funny Jim Carrey in such a role didn't like it and the people who liked more dramatic stories didn't want to see a comedian in it. I feel Lower Decks is the same deal. People who like Classic Star Trek likes something a little more cerebral and uplifting. on the other hand, anyone who likes Rick and Morty's creators and antics (And were not previous ST fans) will get lost in the regulations and all the lore they keep referring to in LD. For me I wish it concentrated on the day to day humor we see snippets of in all the series before this. The foibles of space travel, the mistakes of first contacts, issues with the holodeck, food replicators and the transporter and other technologies. There is a lot of humor that doesn't involve tearing people down. And that's where I think LD loses people, it's the spirit of the show, it's mean spirited. Sure, we can have the street-wise VS book smart and the friction between philosophies. And I'm sure everyone will get their pie in the face at some point in time during the show but at this time of writing, only one person seems to be getting it...constantly. (for reasons subtle and not so) I'm sure I will be called a hater or not liking something because it is new but I feel like somethings should hold fast to what made it popular, change too much too fast and you will lose the audience you are depending on and the new audience will be left wondering what this is all based on. (yes, you can google things but you're sitting down for a comedy, that's no time to go to a wiki) I dunno. we'll see how this goes. I'm usually a 'wait and see' kinda guy but I can understand why people may not be digging LD at this time. Oh well, my 2 cents, thanks for reading.
What’s wrong with showcasing a lesser ship and crew? Not everyone in Starfleet gets assigned to the Enterprise. There are entire groups of ships that do nothing but patrol travel lanes in the Federation.
Exactly! Someone has to do the grunt work so the Ent-D/E get to warp in, look cool, and save the day because someone partially charted that star system, answered the hail from the competing space power, or didn't manufacture a part of the warp core properly.
What's really hilarious is that most the Enterprise's interactions with non-Federation worlds were Second Contact missions. "Encounter at Farpoint Station" (1x01) was a follow-up mission to determine how the race advanced so fast as to develop Farpoint Station, and "Justice" (1x08) showed the dangers of a second contact mission when Wesley Crusher was sentenced to death for destroying a greenhouse! The show-runners are so focused on the prestige of First Contact and the Exploration Fleet that they don't understand the importance of Second Contact and the Diplomatic Fleet, which is highlighted by Boimler's initial monologue and then refuted by the actual episode. Which makes the premise that the Cerritos is ". . . one of the least important ships in the fleet," a lie on the outset.
@@Corbomite_Meatballs What I don't understand is the complete lack of an enlisted cadre - I know that Gene Roddenberry thought that a starship should be reserved for officers, but to spend 4 years undergoing through training in your specialization only to be relegated to manual labor seems like a waste when compared to the modern equivalent: 8 to 12 weeks of basic training followed by 3 to 18 months of technical training. Air Force maintainers are supervised by senior enlisted and officers, but they do most of the work involved in keeping multi-million dollar airplanes from falling out of the sky, and you just have to look at how tech-savvy the current generation is to know that people in the 24th century would be able to do as much with their technology as we can with ours. The way that the Lower Decks characters are portrayed, they should be 3rd year cadets on their midshipman's cruise, but instead they've graduated Starfleet Academy and both of the 'Command' division officers are given assignments that have nothing to do with their specialization (administration). Instead they're reprogramming replicators to not produce 'hot bananas', greasing turbolifts, or washing windows. In the Air Force (yes, I'm a veteran) washing windows was a job relegated to the enlisted, performed by the airmen and supervised by an NCO, with a junior officer checking in to make sure it was done to his/her satisfaction. Watching this show makes me want to write my own series that either does the premise justice or focuses on only one aspect, either the support crew or the least important ship in the fleet. My idea for the 'least important ship' would be a cargo hauler delivering parts and supplies to the exploration fleet that can't be replicated outside a space station, and for the support crew I'd probably go with an 'Academy daze' setup with midshipmen who are neither enlisted nor officers, and are questioning their commitment to Starfleet as they are given some of the worst assignments aboard for the specific purpose of testing their resolve.
Leo Nielson - I get where you are coming from, but in the military there are few officers and many “crew.” These people usually specialize in a specific skill set the ship needs. Geordi may know how to rebuild the warp core, but he doesn’t have the skill set to do it alone. Likewise, crew get to go places, see things, make a living, without the burdens of having any more “command” on their shoulders than they earn in whatever Starfleet considers its “enlisted ranks.”
I will be honest, I agree with the notion that this is closest to legacy Trek we have gotten since perhaps Voyager and questionably Enterprise. Discovery is a huge train wreck from visuals to story, Picard is sorta okay to me, but there’s too many aspects that put me off like most people. Lower decks to me has the spirit of Trek, but overly exaggerated as expected from a adult cartoon. Visuals are spot on, when was the last time we saw some good old LCARS consoles? Or mix and kickbash ship designs (but I heard the California class is actually based off the Miranda class). Character and story so far we gotten to see different focuses from characters and aspects of their daily life and struggles being lower Starfleet officers. We saw different aspects of the main characters so far and learn they all have strength and weaknesses, apparently Marineer isn’t a perfect Mary Sue or “bestest evar” woke feminist mouthpiece people tend to see her as. The comedy so far I admit is cringe in some parts especially episode 1 and 2, but episode 3 honestly made me laugh. I will hold further judgement until this season ends, but so far it does look promising, least for now.
If Discovery is 100,000 light years away from Star Trek and Picard is 98,000 light years away from Star Trek and Lower Decks is 25,000 light years away from being Star Trek. Yes, Lower Decks is a lot closer to being Star Trek than either Discovery or Picard. It's still light years away from being Star Trek.
Marineer is deeply flawed as a character. Her brash aragance and disdain for authority would have gotten her thrown out of Starfleet if it wasn't for the privalge of having 2 high ranking officers for parents to shield her. Makes her quite an interesting character acting as a good counter to the by the books Boimler. Show has a bit of potential, think they just need to pay more attention to the finer details of star trek and keep things funny and the show has potential.
I love lower decks! It has pieces of all other Trek shows in it, but doesn't take it's too too seriously. It kind of makes me think, what if they mixed The Orville and Discovery into one series.
I like something not focused on the senior crew. Nice to see other people. I think cartoons offer BIG potential to trek. Boimler seem like someone not long out of the academy still trying to do everything the way he was taught. He doesn't have enough experience to know when to bend the rules and when to even disregard them. I like comedy I mean sure I would love to see a old style trek but since they can't seen to do that right now this is good. Besides Orville is comedy too. I will be getting a cbsallaccess subscription in September since this is worth it. Hope Orville comes back soon too. Be nice to have both.
@@shaners1802, I hope you stuck with the show throughout the rest of the season. I’d say it had the best first season of any *Star Trek* series since TOS, and the *best* first season finale in the franchise.
I really like it so far admittedly I’ve only watched voyager as well as some of the original and next gen but I like lower decks it’s like a zingy spin off
@@alexandercolefield9523 you know I had a cat years back, and I managed to get that cat to be incredibly polite and well behaved. People say you cant train cats, that they're too head strong. All it took was a water bottle. Every time I saw him doing something that he knew was pissing me off, he got a squirt. Eventually he'd forego knocking stuff down and come yelling for what he wanted. Here's the key, at that point I give it to him. After a few months, he realized that if he just tried to get my attention without being a jerk, I give him what he wanted. He still went on the counters, because he wanted to see out the window. He still scratched some furniture until I carried him to the scratching post and showed him that's where to do that. And I still had to keep the bathroom door closed 24/7 because he'd annihilate toilet paper otherwise. And he'd still jump on my desk to make sure I noticed him. What does all this have to do with Star Trek? If I'd demanded absolute perfection and kept using the stick(water bottle) until I got it, my cat would only learn the lesson that I was a cruel master and grow resentful that I never rewarded him no matter what. I didn't punish him for getting things wrong, just for deliberately being an ass. If he got my attention without breaking things or making a mess, I'd give him what he wants right away, reinforcing that behaviour. Before long that water bottle was sitting on the floor for months on end without being picked up. Lower Decks is a MASSIVE leap in the right direction, and perfect or not, we as fans need to support it and show this is the right direction. We can say all day and night that criticizing the show is to make it better, but if people keep review bombing and refusing to watch and it fails, the only message it sends is that the likes of Picard and Disco are more what people want to see and anything resembling classic trek will be gone forever. CBS got more than enough sticks over the past 2 trek shows they put out. It's time to offer a carrot so they keep going in this direction.
The humor is childish at times but a lot of these adult animations, even with their toilet humor, can do character arcs incredibly well. Also it returns to the strongest era of trek, with lots to pull from three shows that dig into the lore and universe . When I'm looking at Lower Decks I'm not looking to take it 100% seriously, I'm looking to have a cheap laugh with some good Trek flavors. I want to see Trills be dicked over by their symbiant's previous hosts, I want to see a Bolian get splatted in cartoon gore fashin then people more afraid of the acid blood splattering everywhere than the actual gruesome death, I want to see a Klingon stuck in a bad situation but utterly refusing any help to comedic proportions because "MY HONOR!" It still presses my Trek buttons well and I'm enjoying it a hell of a lot more than the over-edged disco era shows.
This show has quickly become the highlight of my week. I know I’m gonna binge the hell out of it all again once the season is done. It’s clearly made by people who love Trek and get it probably more than most fans do. And above all that, it’s just so lacking in any form of cynicism. That’s something dearly lacking these days
Yeah it's pretty bad, even only seeing the small bits tell that much Mariner is just too hypocritical to wait for her arc to not resolve, doesn't care, family privilege still in, things go her way Even in 3 eps You can't tell if it's gonna improve or not and this isn't it
Roddenberry liked it until he didn't, or let people convince him not to like it. And still later Trek shows/movies pulled stuff out of TAS for their use.
I was expecting so little from this... Ended up finding the same thing I found in The Orville! A fun and silly ride that doesn't constantly feel preachy, and that actually makes me question some stuff!
Thank you for talking about this. Whenever anyone makes a video about newer trek, the comments are always filled with "ThEy ShOulD JuSt MakE OlD TrEk", and blindly ignoring everything the newer stuff mightve done right. It is weird for the fanbase of such a positive franchise to suddenly be so hateful to change and different approaches.
The issue isnt that newer series may do something right. The issue is just that the newer stuff wasn't made with the same heart and ideals of old trek. Old trek was made with the goal of showing a humanity who has moved passed a majority of our flaws, whereas new trek is all about being more focused on a still heavily flawed version of humanity and seems to act like we haven't changed from the humanity of today. Im not saying modern trek is all bad or anything, I'm just saying its not created with the same ideals as the original series and that turns off all the old fans.
Man, thank you so much for doing this breakdown. I really appreciate it. I haven't seen the show yet and you are basically my go to guy for all things Star Trek
I saw the one episode on UA-cam. I like the show. I’m just not ready to get a new streaming service, cbs all access, for a single show. If they were part of Disney+ or Hulu or something I’d be watching it every week.
My problem with lower decks is that I can't watch it haha. Thanks international distribution stuff Ok but for what I've seen it looks nice. So I hope I will be able to watch it at some point
That's just rampant stupidity on CBS' part...if they wanted to push this content out ahead of time because 'Rona, then make sure the maximum amount of people can see it, rather than leaving most of the rest of the planet out of your audience.
Every week the fandom menace people are saying "lower decks so bad. All star trek is cancelled now by the studio so we won! The evil sjw's are destroying everything! Buy our shirts!" It's annoying because it's never true.
Agreed I’m glad to see a positive video about this kinda stuff. I recognize personally that this show isn’t for me. I can’t stand always hyper characters so I shut up and didn’t watch the show. I’m so glad other people are able to enjoy it though, and I hope to see more videos like this.
I think you’re right, it is saving Star Trek. It is the only Trek I like that has been produced by Alex Kurtzman. I look forward to it every week. Maybe if it gets good viewer ratings, they will finally address the elephant on the bridge, and actually make a real Star Trek show.
Arguably speaking, "make a real Star Trek show"... wouldn't that be "To Boldly Go"? The Pike-Enterprise planet/drama of the week they're strongly talking about if not outright announced?
ObsidianBlk nah, why do they keep showing us Kirk era stuff? We want prime timeline, with the same look and feel as the next generation/DS9/Voyager and a continuation of the story after Nemisis and Endgame. They just need to get Berman back as a consultant or executive producer. Picard tried, but they decided to change the asthetic and the feel and it ended up sucking. But lower decks has proved they still know what the spirit of Star Trek is, even though they are making fun of it, it shows they still understand it.
@@TheCreditShifu I'm going to start by saying I'm 40 years old, and while I watched TOS, I fell in love with Trek from TNG onwards (I still appreciate the TOS show, mind you)... That said... I think we need to let go of, to an extent, the "look and feel" or, aesthetics, of our older shows. While I may not see them as having aged badly, they came from a design period of a generation ago. There are, of course, a design language to trek... (Example, Federation using predominantly saucers, and soft edges, while klingons are vulturesk and use hard edges), but to be religiously stuck in very specific elements (corridors MUST look this way. LCARS MUST look that way. etc, etc) just leads to creative stagnation! Imagine if TNG couldn't escape the designs set forth by TOS! Honestly, look at those two shows! TOS vs TNG couldn't be more different! Of course a lot of that was budget, perhaps, but a lot was also the aesthetics of the day. If we can't allow some freedoms... maybe a lot of freedoms in some cases... we become fossils and our show dies. As for the time period... I think it's 6 of 1, half dozen of another. There's a lot that can still be filled in within Star Trek's history, and there's quite a bit that can be explored after the events of Nemesis. Personally, I'd be excited to see either. As to Discovery and Picard... I like them, personally. They're trying something new. They're ... Boldly Going. Whether you like it or not, that is up to your own personal preference... just like there are actually people that like Voyager over Deep Space Nine (WTF?! ... I joke). I say let Star Trek try everything! Infinite diversity in infinite combinations after all!
ObsidianBlk I would say there are a few things that STD and PIC did that improved trek, for example making it serialized instead of episodic. But they also trashed a lot of the long running themes, especially the idea that the future human race is more enlightened and morally upright. I think you don’t need to stick exactly to TNG design, because you do afteralll need to show technological advancement etc like how the enterprise E looks different to the D, and Picard did this quite well I’m having the holographic controls. But we need to see ships, awesome looking ships.
@@TheCreditShifu As far as the "more enlightened and morally upright" goes... there are plenty of examples where that's really just not the case. TNG's "Measure of a Man" has starfleet blatantly allowed Maddox to take Data away to do whatever experiments Maddox wanted on him. The only thing that prevented that was Picard... and if you recall the result of the hearing, the best result was the JAG officer was not willing to say one way or another that Data was a sentient entity, but that he had a right to choose. Later, in The Offspring, when Data created Lal (sp?) starfleet, once again, was coming in to take her away with near zero consideration for "her father". Now... keep in mind, Data was NOT built by Starfleet. He JOINED starfleet of his own volition, and yet starfleet seemed to have no issues with choosing to treat him like property. In DS9, just before the Dominion War, (in episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost") we have an Admiral Leyton who is so paranoid over the Changelings that he basically orchestrates a terrorist attack to set in motion a chain of events that, for a brief period, lead Earth into martial law. There's TNG's "The Pegasus" in which we learn of a starfleet experiment in (more than) cloaking technology. This was a technology the federation agreed to NOT research by way of treaty, and yet they are went ahead and underhandedly broke that treaty! Now, it's laid on the shoulders of a single Admiral, and he may have been the spearhead of the program, but that project would have been too big for a single man alone to orchestrate. There's also the moral implication of starfleet going back on it's written word (treaty)! These are just examples off the top of my head of starfleet and the federation being far less than morally or ethically upstanding, and those are pure legacy examples! Now... that said... I can see what you mean about Discovery and Picard, however, I argue these stories where our beloved federation massively f&^ks up are just as important, if not more so, because they remind us that morality and ethics are not something that we instantly attain... these are virtues we must learn... we must learn them, and CONTINUE to learn them! These stories also remind us that even when we DO f^&k up, we can always come back. Discovery (especially the first season) does not paint the Federation in a particularly good light... Picard shows humanity starting to become insular and boarderline racist (vs androids), and it shows us that humans can still be violent criminals... but these shows are STILL trying to portray us attempting to rise above our failures. Again... I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong for not liking Discovery or Picard. You are more than welcome to like or dislike what you will! I just argue that, the idea that Trek (Discovery and Picard) has veered from Trek's original message is way over stated. I think the message is still the same... the drive for an ethical center is still there. How they are attempting to convey that message has changed, though. Sorry for the long ramble.
I think Lower Decks have potential and it seems the producers know what they are doing, as opposed to Discovery and Pukehard. Sure, they should do something about humor(either dial it down or fix it otherwise), but it's not half bad. One interesting thing: Kurtzman is now with Star Trek for 5+ years, yet he still obviously hasn't watched a SINGLE ST show to beginning to the end. FIVE + YEARS! You can watch them FIVE times over if you're hardcore and one time for certain, no matter how casual! Kurtz should just get fired. He's nothing but a political "yes man" and a bootlick, he disgusts me.
Absolutely loving lower decks atm so many references you can tell the guys who write it have done their research. Comedy misses the mark sometimes but every episode has made me properly laugh multiple times.
@@squattingheads its a comedy its not meant to be taken seriously. Even then its still far more faithful than anything else thats been made in the last decade
My issue with the newest instalments of Trek has nothing to do with the shows and all to do with the method of accessing the shows on another pay to watch channel. Of which, there are just too many to afford. From what I can tell, all the Trek shows have their lovers and haters but hey, I grew up with the original and TNG, I felt, was just terrible... Until they got out of the first season. Space jellyfish and stereotyped people come to mind. One character that seems to sum up the spirit of Trek to me is Nog. The rapscallion turned fantastic Starfleet officer. That character defines everything I love about Trek. He was Weasley done right.
I think I might like it from the snippets I've seen. We'll see, if I get the chance to sit down and watch it. Nice of you to stand up for something that seems to have gotten a lot of a bad rap.
The best part about the show is Ensign Rutherford's Incredibly Wholesome Starfleet Experience. He's having the best time and all the senior officers are being great to him. Makes it seem more like Mariner and Boimlers' problems are largely of their own causing. Either that or the writing is inconsistent. I've not decided.
He honestly he seems to be the most well adjusted of the four. Safe for his readiness to throw his career away because of a promise he made to a friend. I like him geeking out about engineering stuff. Hopefully we'll get another episode with him in the limelight after the first two ones.
Great review. Thanks! I've found a lot of jokes to be funny and the show definitely has a heart and spirit. Not since DS9 season 1 has a Trek show started out so decently so early in its run. If anything, I'm guessing some people found Riker's tone in being rude to others compared to LD officers' tone is a cause for complaint. But LD is a comedy and to some extent a parody. Some exaggeration is to be expected.
This all sounds like someone who's been beaten down by "Picard" and ST:D and is making excuses for a series that is only slightly better than all the New Trek blunders, Mariner would be Court Martialed 5 times over by now and would be ruminating in a padded Jail Cell so they wouldn't have to hear her anymore.
The reason I've always loved Star Trek is it takes itself seriously and you actually got to watch characters grow in a world where stuff mattered. I know it was still tv though and you knew the main characters rarely died but dangers still felt real. None of new trek does this for me although Picard came close at times. This just feels like it gone further in the wrong direction. Also saying people simply don't like stuff that's new and are just parroting talking points is a massive strawman and incredibly insulting and condescending to a fanbase that is generally pretty smart and loves intelligent and challenging sci-fi. I loved all of the older trek series from the first episode I watched of each, even Enterprise. I've tried with the new stuff and gave all of it the exact same chance I gave the old stuff. I'm sorry to say though except for moments of Picard it's just pure trash and doesn't feel like the same franchise or a even a show that has any respect for itself. If you like the new stuff that's awesome but you're enjoyment is built on the ashes of a universe Myself and millions of others truly love and miss.
I agree.... Screw the evangelicals I enjoyed this show more then any other new Trek People forget that Trek has been so ingrained into culture that there has been so many parodies of it that an animated sitcom should be no surprise. I actually love the characters on Lower Decks ideally the senior staff, like Lt. Shax for example I want to hear his stories he had about his time in the Bajoran resistance. I want to see him in a boxing match with Gul Dukat. And most importantly: its a Star Trek show. Any Star Trek didn't have a good first season, take TNG for example it took them two seasons to get the respect they deserve. Did I just downright hate Discovery not entirely. I like season 2 thought they improved a lot and Aniston Mount was a fantastic Christopher Pike. People are judging Lower Decks by the first episode when really they should wait a season or two.
I watched the first episode of this show, and did not laugh any of the jokes. I will never watch another episode of it again. If you like it great, it is just not my cup of tea. Your mileage may vary.
My big problem, with lower decks is the main characters, that women is just another ''Rey'' , she is perfect, she dont need to elarn anything,. everything she does is just perfect no matter how boring it is.
This show is nothing but breaking with canon and infantile humor... made me check out of Star Trek for good. Watching TNG, VOY, DS9, ENT again and this is actually very enjoyable.
@@blondiewan3331 Using references is not cannon obsession, for me it it is their empty signalling, as it comes across more as name dropping than actually being funny. E.g. bringing up a Bat'leth for a slapstick joke but a federation officer having no clue what it is... Respecting cannon would be not having people booze and federation officers behaving like greedy Ferengi off the bat (it is not a capitalist society).
Lower decks is awful. Humorless and hateful towards Star Trek and it’s characters. Captain Kirk would never tolerate these dangerous characters. One nearly shoots another to death by mistake and laughs it off as a gag. She should be in the brig for misuse of a firearm and then dropped from the ship at the first opportunity.
Lore Reloaded I watched two episodes. It was brutal. Galaxy quest did a better job including having a guy who was a red shirt and who is now terrified. That character in lower decks, I forget the name, is so dangerous and bossy and destructive that she gave me a headache. I love rick and Morty and gravity falls but I’ll skip this one. But you make a reasonable point.
Dude's still right. She's got Burnham's mummy issues and take-charge hero complex, better written. Thing is, Mariner wouldn't knock her Mum out (if she could avoid it), she'd instead strap on an EVA suit and space-walk over; or beam over to the klingon ship herself and demand a one-on-one fight with the T'Kuvma or his champion.
Wow must be talking about a different legacy trek then the one i grew up watching. Lower decks is awful. The writing is terrible. The humor is below elementary grade potty humor. The characters are unlikable at best.
I think the reason some people find DSC politically offensive is this key difference from what came before: While it's no more averse to confronting social issues than any other Trek, it's far more comfortable showing those issues playing out in the Federation rather than using outsiders to reflect them. You can't just shake your head and say "Those Cardassians are the worst! I'm glad the characters I identify with are there to set them straight." Of course "Look how screwed up _they_ are" is a much easier pill to swallow than "Look how screwed up _we_ are." However, I don't think it's healthy or mature to shy away from the latter.
Actually I like that about STD . I just don’t like the main character. She is at first so mean to me. Then she is rude and then she is just boring. I have been trying so hard to like her but I haven’t been able to. The side characters are so much better.
Jessica Freda I agree, she’s a terrible character. She wouldn’t be so bad if she were just one cast member out of many, but not since Kirk has a Trek character received so much focus, and she _really_ doesn’t have the likability needed to stand up under that much attention.
And this is why I give new shows the 3 season try because no matter how u slice it the first season of ANY show is never going to be perfect. Just too bad 8 can't watch lower decks because it's on CBS all access and its not available in Canada hell I had to buy season 1 of diacovery just to see it
Riker was wrong in using broccoli for his name but the captain scolded him for it and he did not use that name again. Sometimes people give harmful name to someone that is not doing their jobs up to standards, and then they need to be reminded this is not helpful and to knock it off. As for the lower decks episode I saw that more as Riker trying to not get close to someone he was reviewing for promotion, you know avoid the whole favoritism thing. Also one could say he was trying to push said lower deck to do better, and let's not forget he did get the promotion in the end.
Great show. It's like all those star trek memes we've laughed about and enjoyed for years were given their own show. And that's no bad thing. Haters gonna hate.
Ok, I will say you have convinced me on the high concept at least. Mariner is a lot more obnoxious and contemptible then you let on. Not to mention she tends to cause just as many problems as she solves. Episode 2 is the height of this when she pays with the controls on the shuttle, spills food on said shuttle controls. Gets herself put in charge of a mission just to take it away from Boimler who was excited about the responsibility, she then ditches the job to drink with the Klingon general who is an old war buddy with. She then is able to drink him under the table to no effect to her, something that should be impossible considering both the potency of bloodwine and knlingon physiology. She also plays around with a bat’leth and almost kills Boimer with it by almost cutting his leg in half. There’s also the outright raciest remarks she makes about Klingons throughout the episode. Honestly without her I could take this as a decent if not somewhat childish comedy. In a way Marener is a parody of a Marry Sue. She puts down others, doesn’t bother with rules and protocol, and basically douse whatever she wants because she knows that in the end she will save the day. Maybe that is the joke, she relishes that no matter how much she messes up she always she’s always successful in the end leading her to not really care about the job. I considered episode 2 bad enough to never look at lower decks again even to shit on it. You have at least give it a second chance with me.
It doesn't get any better. The show is only about promoting Mariner and destroying Boemler. She spends an entire episode harassing him for actually getting a girlfriend, convinced there must be some alien plot behind it (because no one could ACTUALLY like Boemler as a person, you see), only to be actually right, remove the alien parasite causing the issue, and stealing his girl. The show literally exists just to crap on Boemler. And LR loves it for that.
Could we call it "Family Guy" of Star Trek? It pokes subtle fun at the Star Trek tropes while serving us something new. It's a show worth watching because I am a fan of star trek, and I appreciate a show that appreciates legacy Trek, even if it's done in a comedy manner.
The "I have a phaser" bit made me laugh for longer than I expected
Thanks Robot Chicken!
It reminded me a little of a scene in Enterprise. A baddie has T’Pol hostage and tries to get Tucker to surrender. He shrugs, stuns T’Pol, and then stuns the baddie.
Thats sad, do you squirt milk out your nose after hearing the work pudding too?
Honestly, everyone being super supportive to Rutherford in episode 2 is when I realized, “Hell yeah, this is gonna be great”, it’s not like discovery or Picard, it’s what trek was from the beginning, positive, and I can’t wait to see that continued growth.
Ya, episode 2 was really feel good in that respect. I loved seeing the "ya, do what makes you happy" side of Starfleet.
Gosh yes. That was such a "this is the Starfleet we know" moment.
This is part of their agenda, Rutherford can be validated as a POC with a "cybernetic disability" for the same reason that Boimler is the butt of every joke. I'll let you figure it out.
@@TheZapan99 how did you come up with this?
TheZapan99 What? Dude, Boilmer saved the ship in the 3rd episode, and was thanked for it, he was also presented as the only person to be able to hold his own, everyone else was in the verge of death.
Also, Rutherford’s been shown to be a bit of an overly-enthusiastic air head, what are you on about?
I understand your point, hell if this was disco I’d agree, but that’s not what this is for man.
Whenever someone says no one asked for an animated Star Trek comedy, remember no one asked for Star Trek on a space station and we got one of the best series. What we did ask for was Picard meeting Kirk and we got a subpar movie.
When watching Deep Space 9, is there any doubt it takes place in the same universe as Next Generation? I can imagine the Deep Space 9 crew working together with the Next Generation crew, and not just because they share 2 crewmembers. You can exchange a character from the Original Series and the Animated Series and you would not even know it happened. There was an episode from Deep Space 9 where the crew traveled back in time to Kirk's Enterprise and, except for the art style, they fit right in.
Can you imagine the Lower Decks crew working together with the Next Generation crew? Having a more comedic tone of following the people doing the gruntwork on a ship doing the gruntwork is not the issue.
Requesting greatness from people paid to deliver just that isn't a bad thing-
It's basic respect for the audience.
Didn't they make deep space nine because Babylon 5 was gaining traction on their rivals channel
I'm just confused.
You think this is like Legacy Trek??
The Incompetence of the Captain almost destroyed the Ship?
She should already, in Episode 3, have lost her comment.
And you call it Legacy Trek WHY? Because a random, simple O'Brien-Reference??
@@schwarzerritter5724 There are multiple episodes of DS9 making it rather clear, that the DS9 crew is completely different to the TNG crew. The very first episode tells us, that Sisko and Picard do not fit together. The enterprise is held out of the Dominion war. And Q, maybe the one symbol in ST that embodied TNG idealism as a foil, takes no interest in Sisko after being punched. Back in the day people were extremely critical of DS9 and its betrayal of Roddenberry's idealism. DS9 enhanced Star Trek by being different and shaving the core of the franchise of unnecessary baggage. It did so by being different enough in its approach and worldview, but by respectfully dealing with similar topics and themes under a new perspective. The genre change, the comedic tone and subsequent exaggerations of character traits in Lower Decks are an issue having impact on more than one might think. It's next to impossible to imagine those characters in the classic Trek genre. Therefore I believe it is hard to objectively claim those characters can't fit into the Trek universe. As your subjective opinion, of course, but I doubt you can 100% ascertain the impact the genre change really has on your subjective opinion. It's just extremely hard to compare narratives of different genres, since they work with fundamentally different topoi, literary shortcuts, to convey similar fictionalities. Therefore we are bound to the level of meaning, when comparing shows of different genres, since the level of diegesis or fiction or plot (however you want to call it) uses different literary languages, that have to be translated first.
I think a lot of people hate this show because they just don't know how to love Star Trek anymore.
Or just hate kurtzman
@@LoreReloaded I'm not sure hate is strong enough. That group of "fans" has a feeling of apoplectic rage (also the name of my ship in STO) toward Kurtzman.
I think the problem for me was that the same people that tried to sell me Picard and Discovery (while dismissing fan concerns) were the ones who then tried to sell me Lower Decks. Burn me twice and it's gonna take more work to convince me to give them a 3rd chance.
Nice to see some positivity for Lower Decks. I think it has been great for what it is.
This show is my first Star Trek series and I’m glad it’s my first. This show is a good starting point with new fans.
I'm as old school a Trek fan as there is, but I don't dislike Lower Decks. I have pretty much given up on any chance we will get a 90's, positive outlook-type Trek ever again but Lower Decks is at least closer than DSC or Picard. I see it as Star Trek: Orville and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Having standards is NOT nitpicking. And anyone who HAS standards will not be able to stomach this show. I couldn't even hate watch this past episode 3...
That explains the opinion you have
@@LoreReloaded If by that you mean I couldn't watch it past threes episodes because it was complete hot garbage, then you're absolutely right. Telling yourself that it's good doesn't make it true...
Not available here in Scotland yet. So seeing some animated clips was a first. Fair dues to you though it seems to be fun to watch. Apart from the first season of Disco I have found the new output enjoyable. Hopefully the new production team will exorcize the more glaring flaws and give us a more coherent new vision.
Yeah, I'm a big STP and DSC/STD nit-picket but I have been very happy with Lower Decks. It's a freaking cartoon and for that matter one which feels more like Star Trek than anything that has come out in decades.
I want to see John deLancie returning as a animated Q!
Did you see yesterday's mid-season trailer? Your wish has been granted.
Twilight Sparkle: We have an animated Q in Equestria already.
This feels like the first star trek series in years that is proud to be star trek
Lower Decks has been a refreshing return to legacy Trek and it still exemplifies Trek ideals. I am loving this so far.
In what ways does it "exemplify Trek ideals"? It literally spits on them with every available opportunity.
“I only watch STLD for the plot”
_respectfully looks at Commander Ransom shirtless_
ST:LD needs more Justice dammit.
So ethical!
I do like it 6/10 If I'm being honest. But it would be ranked higher if it weren't for Boimler being the butt of the jokes. I like his character call me weird but he's my favorite! But to see him shat on so much just feels mean! Sorry didn't mean to bring muh feels into this!
Meg Griffin problem yeah.
He's shown as super competent in episode three though. And in episode 2 if Mariner had done what he told her to they could have avoided all the following troubles.
He's Trek's version of Arnold Rimmer.
From what I've seen, Lower Decks reminds me of two classic Trek fanfics - "The Celestial Parodies", and "Star Trek: Series?". The first is centered around the USS Celestial and its crew. A fanfic that asks "Why does every Starfleet ship have a perfect crew? What happens to all the misfits in the Federation?".The second, was written as an attempt to explain all the continuity errors in Trek... by blaming them all on Captain Braxton from the Voyager episode "Relativity".
you know the first fanfic could have made more sense then lower decks
My only issue with Mariner is that she can talk way to fast that sometimes I don’t hear what she is saying exactly and I don’t like that about characters, she has slowed down since the pilot which after three viewings I still don’t know parts of what she says I do wish they would slow her down a little.
Just turn on subtitles?
ooooneeee not a option as it’s not available in the U.K. so I watch it on a third party channel
Still not paying for CBS All Access. Might watch if it's ever on Prime or Netflix.
It is worth a month or two to get the whole series then cancel. Probably on DVD before Prime/Netflix
I agree never paying one cent to cbs all access
I like it so far.
Ok I'm about 2 minutes in and I have to say the video mentions that Gene Roddenberry probably would have hated the cartoon aspect to the show. Have I missed something genuinely? Wasn't Gene Roddenberry involved with the original cartoon series of Star Trek? Sure this has a different tone but it is still a cartoon.
Mariner is absolutely a Mary Sue, by EVERY definition of the word. "Mariner was most likely a Star Fleet officer at the top of her game". Citation needed, as far as I can tell, she's a young ensign who acquired her position through nepotism, much like Wesley Crusher. "She probably became an alcoholic at that point". Again, citation needed. Her being an alcoholic apparently means that she can drink a Klingon under the table without being fazed by it. Which is actually just another virtue of her impeccable perfection. IE: Another trait of her being a Mary Sue. "She has been the blunt instrument of the group". This is a lie. You have FOOTAGE of this being a lie in your episode. When Boimler pulls his weapon on the farmers, HE is being the blunt instrument, and she suddenly changes character to be the understanding and reserved one. Why? Because that's the one point where being the blunt instrument is wrong. And, with it being the wrong position, it cannot be given to a Mary Sue. "She causes problems and puts people around her in danger" and does not suffer because of it, because she suffers from nothing. And, again, her position turns out to universally be the correct one.
Also, I haven't seen anyone say that Boimler is bumbling. Most people I've seen view him as the most competent character in the Lower Decks crew, but placed into a world in which he is destined to fail, as the entire show is written to mock and belittle him. "This will be a part of his arc". What evidence do you have that he has an arc at all?
And, yes. Riker mocked a character ONCE. ONCE. Not every minute of every episode.
Have YOU actually watched the show? Or are you just going to go "dur hur, you obviously didn't watch" the way you do to every critical comment put up here?
....The show.. shows her to be capable. I'm guessing you haven't watched all the episodes?
@@LoreReloaded No, I haven't. I don't have the network myself, so I can only catch them when I'm visiting the friend who does (thankfully can actually visit people again here). Which does mean I am hearing about them before I watch them, which likely is coloring my perception (to be fair, I rarely watch things right when they come out, I'm two weeks late on this video, for example).
I generally agree with you...and I liked your view of Mariner as a broken officer. I hadn't thought of that before and I believe you could be right. I prefer that to the thought that she's just a badly-written a**hole.
Except she is just a badly written a-hole. She isn't a broken officer. She's an ensign who only reached and maintained her position because of nepotism, and who makes it her life's work to harass and berate her crewmates into helping her destroy the Federation (by literally ignoring or rewriting every rule and procedure it has).
@@Skyblade12 I disagree that having Mariner be *ahem* abrasive automatically equates to "badly written a hole". I think her MANY faults provide room for growth and storytelling. THAT is what I've been longing for, after all- good storytelling.
@@ronaldclise4139 Room for growth only exists if her faults are faults. When she turns out to be correct about everything, she has no faults.
Example: She's a lazy officer who doesn't care about her job. Result of this? She's proven correct, and that being efficient and diligent doesn't work for the ship, and thus her lazy buffer time is accepted. No lesson learned.
Example 2: She tends to jump into things with an action oriented mindset, being active and abrasive. So, when they encounter farmers and there's a misunderstanding and they're mistaken for enemies, she starts shooting first, and... Oh, wait, no. That trait is switched onto Boimler for that encounter, because we can't have her actually acknowledging a fault in her behavior or learning a lesson.
Example 3: She's convinced that Boimler is a loser that doesn't have a real girlfriend who likes him for who he is, so she spends an episode deconstructing his relationship and finds out...that she's absolutely correct. Again, no lesson learned.
Example 4: She is careless with a bat'leth and stabs Boimler, and from this she learns to be so careful with weapons that she later discharges phasor bursts (with a phasor set to kill) at him because a shield will protect him. Again, no lesson learned.
There is no growth if the character is always right.
I slept on this show when it first came out but after watching a shit ton of clips on UA-cam it won me over. Gonna pick up the bluray
lore reloaded likes lower decks because cbs paid him for the use of his naked towel character. dont act like you dont know im talking about i cant unsee that video lore. i still see it when i close my eyes at night. damn this video proves me wrong.
What naked towel character? I need to see it for. .. scientific research
its a running gag but ok 1ep @ 6:17 3ep@ 5:30 and i wont be shocked to see him in ep 4
It's far from perfect but LD is much closer to the Trek we love than Disco/Picard.....which is saying something when you consider LD is a cartoon with the primary goal of being funny
Well,the goal is also to insert subtle easter eggs^^
Well at least in this show, the klingons actually look like klingons.
Act like Klingons too. First Klingon character immediately gets blind drunk and steals a shuttle.
@@PandorasFolly STD makes all klingons have the coldness of worf and the wrath of khan. The klingons from real star trek laugh and sing and drink.
In Season 2 of Star Trek: Discovery, I think they got the Klingons right. They did start looking like TNG era Klingons, and Season 2 did start to feel more like the Star Trek I grew up watching back in the 1990s and early 2000s.
@@trekkienzl2862 All they really did was give them hair.
@@georgecastullo1569 and literally look like space vikings... no wait thats too far back innit?
I am certainly finding lower decks to be more enjoyable than any of the other Kurtzman trek stuff.
it's not like that would be difficult...
That's a really low bar to surpass though.
Probably because Kurtzman reportedly has had almost nothing to do with it, pretty much McMahan running Lower Decks.
I can find Public Access shows better than the Klutzman stuff.
Root canal surgery is more enjoyable than any of the other Kurtzman trek stuff.
The humor is really not my cup of tea. Aside from that Lower Decks is the closest in decades we have to Star Trek and I am happy about that.
Yes! I'm glad others feel this way too!
Recent Trek has mission/quest driven conflict. I think Lower Decks emphasizes character driven conflict similar to Legacy Trek. The comedy is okay but I prefer the character focused storytelling.
A Mary Sue and a white man bad.
@@floydlooney6837 Incompetent, dumb characters aren't very entertaining to watch. Most officers in Starfleet can be described as a "Mary Sue" -- maybe that's the future, maybe good work ethic, or maybe it's how you write entertaining stories.
None of these characters are bad people, but targeting the white man is weird for you to do. Skin color isn't a character trait or something to criticize, get over it!
I highly recommend “Improvised Star Trek,” a comedic podcast series that ended last year upon a similarly inept ship, the USS Sisyphus, and its crew of random miscreants yet still has the feel of old school Trek.
Lower Decks is definitely growing on me and i dont think its just the trek withdrawal symptoms. There are too many loud and bitter people out there who only focus on the negative. Glad to hear your take on it.
Hey, being closer than anything else we’ve had is better than nothing. And it LOOKS right, which was a tenth of the battle.
The more I watch this show the more I like it and the further away I get from my original assessment that it was Rick and Morty with a Star Trek skin on it. The newest Episode which premiered today just reinforces to me that despite being a comedy, Lower Decks is more trek than Discovery or Picard. I loved the background plot for this one and almost wish it had been used in a proper episode of TNG cause it was actually kinda awesome. Spoiler alert!! They're recovering an ancient Ark Ship ship filled with a liquid that converts in-organic material into organic material for instant Terra forming. I think I'm gonna call the stuff "Genesis Juice" since it's bascially Genesis, the Technology in liquid form.
@Joshua D I'm sorry, did you even read my post. In what way was I complimentary towards Discovery and Picard? All I said was that so far Lower Decks is more in line with Star Trek than they are which isn't saying much but I am enjoying the show. I don't take it too seriously which I think is required to enjoy it. Picard and Discovery though are a dumpster fire.
@Joshua D If you don't like it, you don't have to watch it. There's this great thing called free will, you can exercise it and find something you enjoy.
Also everyone is different. We all like and enjoy different things for different reasons. To use a Star Trek-ism, Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
In summation your opinion has been noted, I don't agree but that's okay.
@Joshua D Um.... so why do you think TOS wasn't vapid garbage?
@Joshua D Yes, actually. A lot of it's vapidity is lost on modern audiences because they're missing the right social context and mistake it for something "deep" when it was written in the most superficial way possible.
@Joshua D Welp, you gave me your personal opinion so I gave you mine :D
You've perfectly described my feelings about this show! It doesn't bother me when a joke falls a little flat, or a reference gets a little too pandering, because at it's heart, this is far closer to Star Trek than anything we've gotten since Enterprise.
I think this is my favorite Lore video ever.
The point of lore videos in general is to take cheesy TV shows and give them too much credit, give them the honor of analyzing them. The literary conceit is that we all know it’s just a TV show and we don’t have to argue over it. At least that’s how it should be. This video is so concise and fair while still expressing the Trek fan experience.
For a longtime I thought a Star Trek series that used our old favorite actors should be animated so they could be any age any timeframe & a live action series should pick-up where legacy Trek left off.
Not to say I don't like Lower Decks because I do. Let's give it love so they continue in this more positive direction.
In case anyone still thinks this show is pushing anti-straight white male agendas...the third episode makes the two straight white males the most competent characters in the entire episode.
Hahahahaha no they don’t
I also liked it but for a far far simpler reason.
When I watched STD and Picard, pretty much every episode ended in me being bummed out. Discovery just because every episode was just not the Star Trek I was looking for and Picard mostly for just being a downer. Seriously, who wants to watch a series about their childhood heroes getting old and feeble then dying?
Lower Decks is fun, it may not blaze any new trails or wow me with epic story lines like we got from earlier series but I can watch it and not feel depressed about it. That's worth something.
Try watching the show with Boemler as the main character instead of the Mary Sue, and see how long that positive attitude remains.
I'm glad to see someone give something new a chance. All too often people will tune out and begin blindly hating anything new in a franchise after something bad comes out. It's not fair to the media or its creators to do that, and it's not fair to yourself either as you can miss out on something you might've enjoyed just because you want to jump on a bandwagon.
Personally, I'm enjoying the new Lore style. And I'm looking forward to seeing STLD when there's access in the UK.
Totally agree with the point that there's an air of if there's something new it must be hated.... could it be that ST is trying to find the right story-telling platform for our times?
And we still have Strange New Worlds to look forward to!
As someone who loathed ST:D and Picard, I was surprised to find myself enjoying this. It's a breezy, well animated cartoon and the writers clearly love Star Trek. Yeah it's a bit childish, but it never tries to shove politics down your throat. In fact it's somewhat closer to Roddenberry's ideals, not least because it's the first series since Enterprise to paint Starfleet in a positive light.
It's been a bloody terrible year and we're all exhausted. Personally I'm just happy to watch something hopeful for a change.
I really enjoy LD. It’s a lot of fun. Since it’s canon, my own head canon is that things happen but not exactly as we see them. What we see is a comedic retelling of real events.
After watching (too much) Midnight's Edge, I finally got my Crave subscription and watched Star Trek: Picard. Honestly? It literally blew me away how surprisingly good it was. Yes, it's certainly no episodic ST:TNG. It felt more like Discovery in terms of pacing, but a LOT more like Star Trek: DS9. (SPOILERS AHEAD)
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Truthfully, it hit me really damn hard, and I loved every piece of it (though I felt that the size of the Federation Fleet was a bit huge, and Commander Riker being in charge of it as an acting captain was a bit much (though, to be fair, the in-universe explanation is because of his connection with Picard, and that Picard already gave him first-hand information on the situation).
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Seeing Seven becoming such a bad-ass, not to mention becoming far more "human", was really nice, and seeing her become a Borg Queen if only for a brief moment, was probably once of the coolest things I've ever seen. And seeing Hue again was very exciting, and the emotional impact of his death really hit me hard (yet the whole situation was believable, considering the circumstances). Same could be said for the shocking death of Maddox, someone who, if you didn't know TNG, would mean nothing; but for someone who is very familiar with "Measure of a Man," hits you square in the nuts.
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There were SO many tie-ins with all levels of Trek in Picard, and made the entire plot make a ton of sense - Romulans trying hard to rebuild, Federation becoming paranoid and corrupt after the beating they received in post-Dominion War, Picard's illness, Hue becoming a major proponent of deborgification after his appearances in TNG, Riker and Troy finally settling down, Picard's horrendous PTSD regarding both the Borg and Data's death, and Data finally having 'children' of his own. Of course, there were some creative liberties when it comes to the entire Data plot, but in the end, I was in tears (a rarity for me) when I was watching the last 15 minutes of the season finale, finally receiving the closure that I felt was missing after the events of Nemesis. Ultimately, I feel like Picard feels like what the Federation would legitimately be like 20 years post-Nemesis, including the politics (I mean.... DS9's "Home Front" essentially IS this premise during the Dominion War).
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Ultimately, I feel like Picard isn't being given enough credit, because Discovery as a concept has been horribly flawed, there were some design decisions that didn't make a whole lot of sense (those massive hollow interiors during the turbolift scenes, for example), and a lot of creative decisions that put severe pressure onto canon (Spore drive, Klingon War, etc). There were many amazing moments, but I felt it came off the rails in quite a few places.
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You've finally convinced me to watch Lower Decks. With how impressed I was with Picard, and how excited I am to see the next season, you may be right and I shouldn't write this off based on the 'feel' alone.
I haven't seen Lower decks yet But I have seen a few clips ... and people nitpicking how the guy (Boimer?) didn't rat out his cremate for selling farming equipment and than the tear down of Wesley by Picard .... buuut they failed to include any clip of ... let's say Picard telling Data braking the rules to save the exocomps was the most human decision he ever made
I love Lower Decks, more than Picard, and Discovery. I've really enjoyed the series so far, these are ensigns who are at the beginning of their careers, and I do think this of Mariner as at the beginning. They will grow with time. Boimler needs to be given a few less pot shots taken to him, and I'm hoping that 'real life' experience will have him blossom into a commander/captain. (Nice shot at Riker btw). As far as the genre is concerned, I think the best way to show the ensigns of Lower Decks is through comedy.
While I like to think things will improve (maybe) I think it's the spirit of these first few episodes that are turning people like me off.
Does anyone remember the movie "The Majestic" with Jim Carrey? Did badly and I think it was because people who liked funny Jim Carrey in such a role didn't like it and the people who liked more dramatic stories didn't want to see a comedian in it. I feel Lower Decks is the same deal.
People who like Classic Star Trek likes something a little more cerebral and uplifting. on the other hand, anyone who likes Rick and Morty's creators and antics (And were not previous ST fans) will get lost in the regulations and all the lore they keep referring to in LD. For me I wish it concentrated on the day to day humor we see snippets of in all the series before this. The foibles of space travel, the mistakes of first contacts, issues with the holodeck, food replicators and the transporter and other technologies. There is a lot of humor that doesn't involve tearing people down.
And that's where I think LD loses people, it's the spirit of the show, it's mean spirited.
Sure, we can have the street-wise VS book smart and the friction between philosophies. And I'm sure everyone will get their pie in the face at some point in time during the show but at this time of writing, only one person seems to be getting it...constantly. (for reasons subtle and not so)
I'm sure I will be called a hater or not liking something because it is new but I feel like somethings should hold fast to what made it popular, change too much too fast and you will lose the audience you are depending on and the new audience will be left wondering what this is all based on. (yes, you can google things but you're sitting down for a comedy, that's no time to go to a wiki)
I dunno. we'll see how this goes. I'm usually a 'wait and see' kinda guy but I can understand why people may not be digging LD at this time.
Oh well, my 2 cents, thanks for reading.
What’s wrong with showcasing a lesser ship and crew? Not everyone in Starfleet gets assigned to the Enterprise. There are entire groups of ships that do nothing but patrol travel lanes in the Federation.
Exactly! Someone has to do the grunt work so the Ent-D/E get to warp in, look cool, and save the day because someone partially charted that star system, answered the hail from the competing space power, or didn't manufacture a part of the warp core properly.
What's really hilarious is that most the Enterprise's interactions with non-Federation worlds were Second Contact missions. "Encounter at Farpoint Station" (1x01) was a follow-up mission to determine how the race advanced so fast as to develop Farpoint Station, and "Justice" (1x08) showed the dangers of a second contact mission when Wesley Crusher was sentenced to death for destroying a greenhouse! The show-runners are so focused on the prestige of First Contact and the Exploration Fleet that they don't understand the importance of Second Contact and the Diplomatic Fleet, which is highlighted by Boimler's initial monologue and then refuted by the actual episode. Which makes the premise that the Cerritos is ". . . one of the least important ships in the fleet," a lie on the outset.
@@Corbomite_Meatballs What I don't understand is the complete lack of an enlisted cadre - I know that Gene Roddenberry thought that a starship should be reserved for officers, but to spend 4 years undergoing through training in your specialization only to be relegated to manual labor seems like a waste when compared to the modern equivalent: 8 to 12 weeks of basic training followed by 3 to 18 months of technical training. Air Force maintainers are supervised by senior enlisted and officers, but they do most of the work involved in keeping multi-million dollar airplanes from falling out of the sky, and you just have to look at how tech-savvy the current generation is to know that people in the 24th century would be able to do as much with their technology as we can with ours.
The way that the Lower Decks characters are portrayed, they should be 3rd year cadets on their midshipman's cruise, but instead they've graduated Starfleet Academy and both of the 'Command' division officers are given assignments that have nothing to do with their specialization (administration). Instead they're reprogramming replicators to not produce 'hot bananas', greasing turbolifts, or washing windows. In the Air Force (yes, I'm a veteran) washing windows was a job relegated to the enlisted, performed by the airmen and supervised by an NCO, with a junior officer checking in to make sure it was done to his/her satisfaction.
Watching this show makes me want to write my own series that either does the premise justice or focuses on only one aspect, either the support crew or the least important ship in the fleet. My idea for the 'least important ship' would be a cargo hauler delivering parts and supplies to the exploration fleet that can't be replicated outside a space station, and for the support crew I'd probably go with an 'Academy daze' setup with midshipmen who are neither enlisted nor officers, and are questioning their commitment to Starfleet as they are given some of the worst assignments aboard for the specific purpose of testing their resolve.
Leo Nielson - I get where you are coming from, but in the military there are few officers and many “crew.” These people usually specialize in a specific skill set the ship needs. Geordi may know how to rebuild the warp core, but he doesn’t have the skill set to do it alone. Likewise, crew get to go places, see things, make a living, without the burdens of having any more “command” on their shoulders than they earn in whatever Starfleet considers its “enlisted ranks.”
This Orville done wrong.
I will be honest, I agree with the notion that this is closest to legacy Trek we have gotten since perhaps Voyager and questionably Enterprise. Discovery is a huge train wreck from visuals to story, Picard is sorta okay to me, but there’s too many aspects that put me off like most people. Lower decks to me has the spirit of Trek, but overly exaggerated as expected from a adult cartoon. Visuals are spot on, when was the last time we saw some good old LCARS consoles? Or mix and kickbash ship designs (but I heard the California class is actually based off the Miranda class). Character and story so far we gotten to see different focuses from characters and aspects of their daily life and struggles being lower Starfleet officers. We saw different aspects of the main characters so far and learn they all have strength and weaknesses, apparently Marineer isn’t a perfect Mary Sue or “bestest evar” woke feminist mouthpiece people tend to see her as. The comedy so far I admit is cringe in some parts especially episode 1 and 2, but episode 3 honestly made me laugh. I will hold further judgement until this season ends, but so far it does look promising, least for now.
If Discovery is 100,000 light years away from Star Trek and Picard is 98,000 light years away from Star Trek and Lower Decks is 25,000 light years away from being Star Trek. Yes, Lower Decks is a lot closer to being Star Trek than either Discovery or Picard. It's still light years away from being Star Trek.
@@liljenborg2517 it is far more legacy trek than ds9 was. DS9 was a damned space soap opera
Marineer is deeply flawed as a character. Her brash aragance and disdain for authority would have gotten her thrown out of Starfleet if it wasn't for the privalge of having 2 high ranking officers for parents to shield her. Makes her quite an interesting character acting as a good counter to the by the books Boimler. Show has a bit of potential, think they just need to pay more attention to the finer details of star trek and keep things funny and the show has potential.
I love lower decks! It has pieces of all other Trek shows in it, but doesn't take it's too too seriously. It kind of makes me think, what if they mixed The Orville and Discovery into one series.
This show is a slap in the face to Star Trek . What are you talking about. I love rick and morty , this show is awful.
It’s not no, glad it’s not rick and morty
I like something not focused on the senior crew. Nice to see other people. I think cartoons offer BIG potential to trek. Boimler seem like someone not long out of the academy still trying to do everything the way he was taught. He doesn't have enough experience to know when to bend the rules and when to even disregard them. I like comedy I mean sure I would love to see a old style trek but since they can't seen to do that right now this is good. Besides Orville is comedy too. I will be getting a cbsallaccess subscription in September since this is worth it. Hope Orville comes back soon too. Be nice to have both.
Considering the amount of views your video got, pretty sure you are in the minority lol lower decks is trash dude, accept it
Nah fam ... it’s doing really well. Keep talking that fallacy garbage :)
@@LoreReloaded idk man lol i think your gonna eat your hat soon x) how embarrassing
@@LoreReloaded looks like you have a hat to eat ;)
@@shaners1802, I hope you stuck with the show throughout the rest of the season. I’d say it had the best first season of any *Star Trek* series since TOS, and the *best* first season finale in the franchise.
Star Trek can't be a cartoon!
Star Trek: The Animated Series: Am I a joke to you?
I see the title and i ask myself, *is this an out of season April fools?*
Same here! Or regular season satire.
I like the show. It gives the rest of us a place to reasonably aim for when we daydream of what we would do if we made it into Starfleet.
I really like it so far admittedly I’ve only watched voyager as well as some of the original and next gen but I like lower decks it’s like a zingy spin off
Glad least you an antitrecker are staying true to yourselves it not hating it because the bandwagon tells you to.
Dang we got Major Grin shitting on every episode, and then over here we got Lore Reloaded calling it almost as good as legacy trek. So polarizing lol
And yet we can be friends... cray cray?!
lower decks does deserve criticism, so it can be better in the future
@@alexandercolefield9523 you know I had a cat years back, and I managed to get that cat to be incredibly polite and well behaved. People say you cant train cats, that they're too head strong. All it took was a water bottle. Every time I saw him doing something that he knew was pissing me off, he got a squirt. Eventually he'd forego knocking stuff down and come yelling for what he wanted. Here's the key, at that point I give it to him. After a few months, he realized that if he just tried to get my attention without being a jerk, I give him what he wanted. He still went on the counters, because he wanted to see out the window. He still scratched some furniture until I carried him to the scratching post and showed him that's where to do that. And I still had to keep the bathroom door closed 24/7 because he'd annihilate toilet paper otherwise. And he'd still jump on my desk to make sure I noticed him.
What does all this have to do with Star Trek? If I'd demanded absolute perfection and kept using the stick(water bottle) until I got it, my cat would only learn the lesson that I was a cruel master and grow resentful that I never rewarded him no matter what. I didn't punish him for getting things wrong, just for deliberately being an ass. If he got my attention without breaking things or making a mess, I'd give him what he wants right away, reinforcing that behaviour. Before long that water bottle was sitting on the floor for months on end without being picked up.
Lower Decks is a MASSIVE leap in the right direction, and perfect or not, we as fans need to support it and show this is the right direction. We can say all day and night that criticizing the show is to make it better, but if people keep review bombing and refusing to watch and it fails, the only message it sends is that the likes of Picard and Disco are more what people want to see and anything resembling classic trek will be gone forever.
CBS got more than enough sticks over the past 2 trek shows they put out. It's time to offer a carrot so they keep going in this direction.
I have a feeling Major Grin just trolls new trek for the views.
@@EllRiver so much this... he barley even puts any effort into making videos either.
The humor is childish at times but a lot of these adult animations, even with their toilet humor, can do character arcs incredibly well. Also it returns to the strongest era of trek, with lots to pull from three shows that dig into the lore and universe .
When I'm looking at Lower Decks I'm not looking to take it 100% seriously, I'm looking to have a cheap laugh with some good Trek flavors. I want to see Trills be dicked over by their symbiant's previous hosts, I want to see a Bolian get splatted in cartoon gore fashin then people more afraid of the acid blood splattering everywhere than the actual gruesome death, I want to see a Klingon stuck in a bad situation but utterly refusing any help to comedic proportions because "MY HONOR!" It still presses my Trek buttons well and I'm enjoying it a hell of a lot more than the over-edged disco era shows.
This show has quickly become the highlight of my week. I know I’m gonna binge the hell out of it all again once the season is done. It’s clearly made by people who love Trek and get it probably more than most fans do. And above all that, it’s just so lacking in any form of cynicism. That’s something dearly lacking these days
Yeah it's pretty bad, even only seeing the small bits tell that much
Mariner is just too hypocritical to wait for her arc to not resolve, doesn't care, family privilege still in, things go her way
Even in 3 eps You can't tell if it's gonna improve or not and this isn't it
You should see all of it
@@LoreReloaded does boimler kill marier
@@latviandragon2718 Nope. In fact, most recently, she steals his girlfriend.
Star Trek has been a cartoon before. It won an Emmy award. It completed TOS and Rodenberry did approve. Thanks for the great research. Lol
Roddenberry liked it until he didn't, or let people convince him not to like it. And still later Trek shows/movies pulled stuff out of TAS for their use.
I was expecting so little from this... Ended up finding the same thing I found in The Orville!
A fun and silly ride that doesn't constantly feel preachy, and that actually makes me question some stuff!
Because Lower Deck tries really hard (and fails) to imitate what is likeable about the Orville.
@@TheZapan99 Perhaps... In any case, Im entertained by both :)
I find the charm is how it subverts the tropes most of the time. Much how the Sr Officers are expected to be the antagonists.
Thank you for talking about this. Whenever anyone makes a video about newer trek, the comments are always filled with "ThEy ShOulD JuSt MakE OlD TrEk", and blindly ignoring everything the newer stuff mightve done right. It is weird for the fanbase of such a positive franchise to suddenly be so hateful to change and different approaches.
Hear,hear! 🖖🏻🖖🏻
The issue isnt that newer series may do something right. The issue is just that the newer stuff wasn't made with the same heart and ideals of old trek. Old trek was made with the goal of showing a humanity who has moved passed a majority of our flaws, whereas new trek is all about being more focused on a still heavily flawed version of humanity and seems to act like we haven't changed from the humanity of today. Im not saying modern trek is all bad or anything, I'm just saying its not created with the same ideals as the original series and that turns off all the old fans.
Its a weird time when lower decks and the orville are the best treck shows out there.
Mariner is my only issue with the show so far, just need move her from an 11 to an 8 or 7 on the volume level.
the latest ep made her more interesting. that conspiracy theory wall! hahahaahah
That new episode made her vulnerable and weak. And showed flaws. Also again like he points out it's a comedy. The characters are cranked up
@@screwistic Seeing Mariner try to out think herself... that was incredibly amusing.
@@marhawkman303 agreed
MARINER UP TO 12 LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Man, thank you so much for doing this breakdown. I really appreciate it. I haven't seen the show yet and you are basically my go to guy for all things Star Trek
I saw the one episode on UA-cam. I like the show. I’m just not ready to get a new streaming service, cbs all access, for a single show. If they were part of Disney+ or Hulu or something I’d be watching it every week.
My problem with lower decks is that I can't watch it haha. Thanks international distribution stuff
Ok but for what I've seen it looks nice. So I hope I will be able to watch it at some point
That's just rampant stupidity on CBS' part...if they wanted to push this content out ahead of time because 'Rona, then make sure the maximum amount of people can see it, rather than leaving most of the rest of the planet out of your audience.
There are ways of seeing Lower Decks, which some people say is quite...illegal.
Do you really believe what you are saying? You seem to suffer from believing your own arguments.
Do you.... not believe in what you argue? Do you just follow crowds to feel in and have no values?
Every week the fandom menace people are saying "lower decks so bad. All star trek is cancelled now by the studio so we won! The evil sjw's are destroying everything! Buy our shirts!" It's annoying because it's never true.
Agreed I’m glad to see a positive video about this kinda stuff. I recognize personally that this show isn’t for me. I can’t stand always hyper characters so I shut up and didn’t watch the show. I’m so glad other people are able to enjoy it though, and I hope to see more videos like this.
I think you’re right, it is saving Star Trek. It is the only Trek I like that has been produced by Alex Kurtzman. I look forward to it every week. Maybe if it gets good viewer ratings, they will finally address the elephant on the bridge, and actually make a real Star Trek show.
Arguably speaking, "make a real Star Trek show"... wouldn't that be "To Boldly Go"? The Pike-Enterprise planet/drama of the week they're strongly talking about if not outright announced?
ObsidianBlk nah, why do they keep showing us Kirk era stuff? We want prime timeline, with the same look and feel as the next generation/DS9/Voyager and a continuation of the story after Nemisis and Endgame. They just need to get Berman back as a consultant or executive producer. Picard tried, but they decided to change the asthetic and the feel and it ended up sucking. But lower decks has proved they still know what the spirit of Star Trek is, even though they are making fun of it, it shows they still understand it.
@@TheCreditShifu I'm going to start by saying I'm 40 years old, and while I watched TOS, I fell in love with Trek from TNG onwards (I still appreciate the TOS show, mind you)...
That said... I think we need to let go of, to an extent, the "look and feel" or, aesthetics, of our older shows. While I may not see them as having aged badly, they came from a design period of a generation ago. There are, of course, a design language to trek... (Example, Federation using predominantly saucers, and soft edges, while klingons are vulturesk and use hard edges), but to be religiously stuck in very specific elements (corridors MUST look this way. LCARS MUST look that way. etc, etc) just leads to creative stagnation! Imagine if TNG couldn't escape the designs set forth by TOS! Honestly, look at those two shows! TOS vs TNG couldn't be more different! Of course a lot of that was budget, perhaps, but a lot was also the aesthetics of the day. If we can't allow some freedoms... maybe a lot of freedoms in some cases... we become fossils and our show dies.
As for the time period... I think it's 6 of 1, half dozen of another. There's a lot that can still be filled in within Star Trek's history, and there's quite a bit that can be explored after the events of Nemesis. Personally, I'd be excited to see either.
As to Discovery and Picard... I like them, personally. They're trying something new. They're ... Boldly Going. Whether you like it or not, that is up to your own personal preference... just like there are actually people that like Voyager over Deep Space Nine (WTF?! ... I joke).
I say let Star Trek try everything! Infinite diversity in infinite combinations after all!
ObsidianBlk I would say there are a few things that STD and PIC did that improved trek, for example making it serialized instead of episodic. But they also trashed a lot of the long running themes, especially the idea that the future human race is more enlightened and morally upright. I think you don’t need to stick exactly to TNG design, because you do afteralll need to show technological advancement etc like how the enterprise E looks different to the D, and Picard did this quite well I’m having the holographic controls. But we need to see ships, awesome looking ships.
@@TheCreditShifu As far as the "more enlightened and morally upright" goes... there are plenty of examples where that's really just not the case.
TNG's "Measure of a Man" has starfleet blatantly allowed Maddox to take Data away to do whatever experiments Maddox wanted on him. The only thing that prevented that was Picard... and if you recall the result of the hearing, the best result was the JAG officer was not willing to say one way or another that Data was a sentient entity, but that he had a right to choose. Later, in The Offspring, when Data created Lal (sp?) starfleet, once again, was coming in to take her away with near zero consideration for "her father". Now... keep in mind, Data was NOT built by Starfleet. He JOINED starfleet of his own volition, and yet starfleet seemed to have no issues with choosing to treat him like property.
In DS9, just before the Dominion War, (in episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost") we have an Admiral Leyton who is so paranoid over the Changelings that he basically orchestrates a terrorist attack to set in motion a chain of events that, for a brief period, lead Earth into martial law.
There's TNG's "The Pegasus" in which we learn of a starfleet experiment in (more than) cloaking technology. This was a technology the federation agreed to NOT research by way of treaty, and yet they are went ahead and underhandedly broke that treaty! Now, it's laid on the shoulders of a single Admiral, and he may have been the spearhead of the program, but that project would have been too big for a single man alone to orchestrate. There's also the moral implication of starfleet going back on it's written word (treaty)!
These are just examples off the top of my head of starfleet and the federation being far less than morally or ethically upstanding, and those are pure legacy examples!
Now... that said... I can see what you mean about Discovery and Picard, however, I argue these stories where our beloved federation massively f&^ks up are just as important, if not more so, because they remind us that morality and ethics are not something that we instantly attain... these are virtues we must learn... we must learn them, and CONTINUE to learn them! These stories also remind us that even when we DO f^&k up, we can always come back. Discovery (especially the first season) does not paint the Federation in a particularly good light... Picard shows humanity starting to become insular and boarderline racist (vs androids), and it shows us that humans can still be violent criminals... but these shows are STILL trying to portray us attempting to rise above our failures.
Again... I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong for not liking Discovery or Picard. You are more than welcome to like or dislike what you will! I just argue that, the idea that Trek (Discovery and Picard) has veered from Trek's original message is way over stated. I think the message is still the same... the drive for an ethical center is still there. How they are attempting to convey that message has changed, though.
Sorry for the long ramble.
I think Lower Decks have potential and it seems the producers know what they are doing, as opposed to Discovery and Pukehard. Sure, they should do something about humor(either dial it down or fix it otherwise), but it's not half bad.
One interesting thing: Kurtzman is now with Star Trek for 5+ years, yet he still obviously hasn't watched a SINGLE ST show to beginning to the end. FIVE + YEARS! You can watch them FIVE times over if you're hardcore and one time for certain, no matter how casual! Kurtz should just get fired. He's nothing but a political "yes man" and a bootlick, he disgusts me.
Absolutely loving lower decks atm so many references you can tell the guys who write it have done their research. Comedy misses the mark sometimes but every episode has made me properly laugh multiple times.
What good does knowledge do when it’s just used to make a mockery?
@@squattingheads its a comedy its not meant to be taken seriously. Even then its still far more faithful than anything else thats been made in the last decade
My issue with the newest instalments of Trek has nothing to do with the shows and all to do with the method of accessing the shows on another pay to watch channel. Of which, there are just too many to afford. From what I can tell, all the Trek shows have their lovers and haters but hey, I grew up with the original and TNG, I felt, was just terrible... Until they got out of the first season. Space jellyfish and stereotyped people come to mind. One character that seems to sum up the spirit of Trek to me is Nog. The rapscallion turned fantastic Starfleet officer. That character defines everything I love about Trek. He was Weasley done right.
Yea them trying to milk you for money is stupid I agree
There are always the high seas ...
Its not as bad as some have been saying, actually if you watch some ofthe Star trek TNG Intakes it makes Lower decks feel abit more in canon.
I think I might like it from the snippets I've seen. We'll see, if I get the chance to sit down and watch it. Nice of you to stand up for something that seems to have gotten a lot of a bad rap.
The best part about the show is Ensign Rutherford's Incredibly Wholesome Starfleet Experience. He's having the best time and all the senior officers are being great to him. Makes it seem more like Mariner and Boimlers' problems are largely of their own causing. Either that or the writing is inconsistent. I've not decided.
He honestly he seems to be the most well adjusted of the four. Safe for his readiness to throw his career away because of a promise he made to a friend. I like him geeking out about engineering stuff. Hopefully we'll get another episode with him in the limelight after the first two ones.
Great review. Thanks! I've found a lot of jokes to be funny and the show definitely has a heart and spirit. Not since DS9 season 1 has a Trek show started out so decently so early in its run.
If anything, I'm guessing some people found Riker's tone in being rude to others compared to LD officers' tone is a cause for complaint. But LD is a comedy and to some extent a parody. Some exaggeration is to be expected.
This all sounds like someone who's been beaten down by "Picard" and ST:D and is making excuses for a series that is only slightly better than all the New Trek blunders, Mariner would be Court Martialed 5 times over by now and would be ruminating in a padded Jail Cell so they wouldn't have to hear her anymore.
Not the first time you’ve been wrong I’m sure
@@LoreReloaded Epic Comeback.
@@CptNameless Give him a break, took him alot of effort to come up with that reply.
The reason I've always loved Star Trek is it takes itself seriously and you actually got to watch characters grow in a world where stuff mattered.
I know it was still tv though and you knew the main characters rarely died but dangers still felt real.
None of new trek does this for me although Picard came close at times.
This just feels like it gone further in the wrong direction.
Also saying people simply don't like stuff that's new and are just parroting talking points is a massive strawman and incredibly insulting and condescending to a fanbase that is generally pretty smart and loves intelligent and challenging sci-fi.
I loved all of the older trek series from the first episode I watched of each, even Enterprise.
I've tried with the new stuff and gave all of it the exact same chance I gave the old stuff.
I'm sorry to say though except for moments of Picard it's just pure trash and doesn't feel like the same franchise or a even a show that has any respect for itself.
If you like the new stuff that's awesome but you're enjoyment is built on the ashes of a universe Myself and millions of others truly love and miss.
I agree.... Screw the evangelicals I enjoyed this show more then any other new Trek
People forget that Trek has been so ingrained into culture that there has been so many parodies of it that an animated sitcom should be no surprise.
I actually love the characters on Lower Decks ideally the senior staff, like Lt. Shax for example I want to hear his stories he had about his time in the Bajoran resistance. I want to see him in a boxing match with Gul Dukat.
And most importantly: its a Star Trek show. Any Star Trek didn't have a good first season, take TNG for example it took them two seasons to get the respect they deserve. Did I just downright hate Discovery not entirely. I like season 2 thought they improved a lot and Aniston Mount was a fantastic Christopher Pike. People are judging Lower Decks by the first episode when really they should wait a season or two.
It'd have probably been better received if the parody came out after some decent live action series rather then Discovery and Picard
Agreed,I enjoyed season 2 discovery more.
Okay I'm sold I'll watch it.
I watched the first episode of this show, and did not laugh any of the jokes. I will never watch another episode of it again. If you like it great, it is just not my cup of tea. Your mileage may vary.
My big problem, with lower decks is the main characters, that women is just another ''Rey'' , she is perfect, she dont need to elarn anything,. everything she does is just perfect no matter how boring it is.
I really have been enjoying LD. If this is what gets me into Disco trek, I'll accept it.
This show is nothing but breaking with canon and infantile humor... made me check out of Star Trek for good. Watching TNG, VOY, DS9, ENT again and this is actually very enjoyable.
Don’t watch tos or tng season 1 and 2 .. breaks continuity like crazy
On the contrary, this show is arguably more canon-obsessed than practically any other show in the franchise (and in a good way!).
@@blondiewan3331 Using references is not cannon obsession, for me it it is their empty signalling, as it comes across more as name dropping than actually being funny. E.g. bringing up a Bat'leth for a slapstick joke but a federation officer having no clue what it is... Respecting cannon would be not having people booze and federation officers behaving like greedy Ferengi off the bat (it is not a capitalist society).
Something to point out is the captain of the ship is Mariner's mom.
Wait, WHAT!?
@@blackspike2710 her dad is admiral but she could be android herself because she wasn't attracted to that parasite feremones so that's super weird
@@mikcnmvedmsfonoteka No it isn't. No one but Barb was affected. The pheromones were targeted to her.
@@mikcnmvedmsfonoteka Can't have her actually be affected by anything. She's a Mary Sue. She's above such things as plot points.
@@Skyblade12, she’s not a Mary Sue.
Lower decks is awful. Humorless and hateful towards Star Trek and it’s characters. Captain Kirk would never tolerate these dangerous characters. One nearly shoots another to death by mistake and laughs it off as a gag. She should be in the brig for misuse of a firearm and then dropped from the ship at the first opportunity.
.. lol so you haven’t seen Lower decks nor tos
Lore Reloaded I watched two episodes. It was brutal. Galaxy quest did a better job including having a guy who was a red shirt and who is now terrified. That character in lower decks, I forget the name, is so dangerous and bossy and destructive that she gave me a headache. I love rick and Morty and gravity falls but I’ll skip this one. But you make a reasonable point.
Lower Decks sucks
Newp
I agree about Mariner being a better-written version of Burnham.
George and Gracie, the whales from Star Trek IV are a better-written version of Burnham.
That's kind of a low bar to surpass though.
Dude's still right. She's got Burnham's mummy issues and take-charge hero complex, better written.
Thing is, Mariner wouldn't knock her Mum out (if she could avoid it), she'd instead strap on an EVA suit and space-walk over; or beam over to the klingon ship herself and demand a one-on-one fight with the T'Kuvma or his champion.
Wow must be talking about a different legacy trek then the one i grew up watching. Lower decks is awful. The writing is terrible. The humor is below elementary grade potty humor. The characters are unlikable at best.
I think the reason some people find DSC politically offensive is this key difference from what came before: While it's no more averse to confronting social issues than any other Trek, it's far more comfortable showing those issues playing out in the Federation rather than using outsiders to reflect them. You can't just shake your head and say "Those Cardassians are the worst! I'm glad the characters I identify with are there to set them straight." Of course "Look how screwed up _they_ are" is a much easier pill to swallow than "Look how screwed up _we_ are."
However, I don't think it's healthy or mature to shy away from the latter.
Actually I like that about STD . I just don’t like the main character. She is at first so mean to me. Then she is rude and then she is just boring. I have been trying so hard to like her but I haven’t been able to. The side characters are so much better.
Jessica Freda I agree, she’s a terrible character. She wouldn’t be so bad if she were just one cast member out of many, but not since Kirk has a Trek character received so much focus, and she _really_ doesn’t have the likability needed to stand up under that much attention.
And this is why I give new shows the 3 season try because no matter how u slice it the first season of ANY show is never going to be perfect. Just too bad 8 can't watch lower decks because it's on CBS all access and its not available in Canada hell I had to buy season 1 of diacovery just to see it
The boy-name girl has a few expressions throughout the show: sneering, smugness, scheming
Riker was wrong in using broccoli for his name but the captain scolded him for it and he did not use that name again. Sometimes people give harmful name to someone that is not doing their jobs up to standards, and then they need to be reminded this is not helpful and to knock it off. As for the lower decks episode I saw that more as Riker trying to not get close to someone he was reviewing for promotion, you know avoid the whole favoritism thing. Also one could say he was trying to push said lower deck to do better, and let's not forget he did get the promotion in the end.
This isnt Star Trek.
It is
@@LoreReloaded well its the old trek
Great show. It's like all those star trek memes we've laughed about and enjoyed for years were given their own show. And that's no bad thing. Haters gonna hate.
Ok, I will say you have convinced me on the high concept at least. Mariner is a lot more obnoxious and contemptible then you let on. Not to mention she tends to cause just as many problems as she solves. Episode 2 is the height of this when she pays with the controls on the shuttle, spills food on said shuttle controls. Gets herself put in charge of a mission just to take it away from Boimler who was excited about the responsibility, she then ditches the job to drink with the Klingon general who is an old war buddy with. She then is able to drink him under the table to no effect to her, something that should be impossible considering both the potency of bloodwine and knlingon physiology. She also plays around with a bat’leth and almost kills Boimer with it by almost cutting his leg in half. There’s also the outright raciest remarks she makes about Klingons throughout the episode. Honestly without her I could take this as a decent if not somewhat childish comedy. In a way Marener is a parody of a Marry Sue. She puts down others, doesn’t bother with rules and protocol, and basically douse whatever she wants because she knows that in the end she will save the day. Maybe that is the joke, she relishes that no matter how much she messes up she always she’s always successful in the end leading her to not really care about the job. I considered episode 2 bad enough to never look at lower decks again even to shit on it. You have at least give it a second chance with me.
It doesn't get any better. The show is only about promoting Mariner and destroying Boemler. She spends an entire episode harassing him for actually getting a girlfriend, convinced there must be some alien plot behind it (because no one could ACTUALLY like Boemler as a person, you see), only to be actually right, remove the alien parasite causing the issue, and stealing his girl.
The show literally exists just to crap on Boemler. And LR loves it for that.
Could we call it "Family Guy" of Star Trek? It pokes subtle fun at the Star Trek tropes while serving us something new. It's a show worth watching because I am a fan of star trek, and I appreciate a show that appreciates legacy Trek, even if it's done in a comedy manner.