Driving the WIDOWMAKER: What's The Fearsome Porsche 911 996 GT2 Really Like?
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
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Today I drive the scariest 911 of all - the GT2. 480hp, two wheel drive and no traction control. Is it a recipe for success, or disaster?
#Porsche #911 #turbo
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i thought the 930 was the Widowmaker
930 turbo was the widow maker
James, you have really developed into a first class reviewer /auto journalist. First class mate, entertaining, honest and in depth. Always been good but you have certainly upped your game since I started watching the channel! Thanks
Much appreciated!
@@876632 second this!
Had a 996 GT2 for five years. Did several hard track events and spirited canyon roads with it. Basically, suspension setting and alignment is key for performance and predictable handling. Many US market cars were delivered with improper suspension settings. Once set up, they are outstanding! It goes without saying that tires that haven’t sat and gotten old/hard are important as well.
As a viewer (or as a bystander) I appreciate that the owner has refrained from showing off with bright colors and a loud exhaust.
It's very tasteful isn't it?
That shirt is absolutely bananas
I come here as much for the shirts, as for the cars.
I believe those are flowers, could be wrong though.
It's maybe worth pointing out that when the 996 GT2 first came out, tyres back then were nowhere near as advanced as they are today. So a lot of these sketchy cars like various TVR's and Vipers, with today's tyres (premium performance tyres) won't be as dangerous to drive as they were when they were brand new. Having said that, if you have never driven a car without traction/stability control, and you have a heavy right foot, then you could possibly run into trouble. So tyres and experience. I still have that video of a Viper under-steering of a cliff engraved into my mind.
I had this same thought, but the Michelin PS2 really wasn't that bad. The trouble with the GT2 is that if you want a normal street tire in the stock sizes you are still actually running that same Michelin compound from back then. The PS4S does not come in GT2 sizing. All the other tires for the GT2 are R compound quite sticky units like Yokohama A052 or Toyo R888 type of thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but food for thought. Maybe that's fine because you don't like driving your widowmaker in the wet regardless.
I hear that about the Carrera GT as well; that modern tyres make it completely different to drive (far better, that is)
Isn't the widowmaker supposed to be the 930 turbo? Anyway loved the video as always!
There's about a dozen cars known as "The Widowmaker."
Agree I lways thought the 930 turbo was the really twitchy one. Others earning the nickname include the Maserati Bora, Detomaso Mangusta, proper Cobras and numerous Trevors.. Modern tyres have probably tamed them all a bit,..a bit
@@OGPorscheCatJeremy Clarkson also coined the McLaren P1 as "The Widowmaker" and as far as I know no one has ever died in one of those 🤷
Dodge viper?
I thought it was the 993 GT2 but I guess there all sketchy 😅
I drove a 2002 GT2 a few years ago with a remap and an exhaust. It was far from a widow maker by today’s standards. It put the power down beautifully and with no drama. Maybe things were different back then on what people considered sketchy but this car was anything but that
Tyre technology has come on a LONG way.
Somewhere around the mid 2010's we got the likes of Michelin Pilot Supersport, Pilot Sport 4, Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport and others. Since that point I believe lots of cars gained much better drivability.
It never was a “widow maker” tbh. I think some wag made that up and it stuck.
@@danjo911 996 was never a widowmaker in the first place. That nickname is primarily used for 930 and RUF 930s
One of the most underrated 911’s of the history of 911’s
One could probably apply that moniker to much of the 996 range. That you can buy a 996 turbo for a quarter of the price of this GT2 tells me the 996 turbo represents incredible value (in my humble opinion).
And WTC is most overrated 911 of all 911s
This car is the main reason I am driving a 911 today, a luxury car dealer in my neighborhood used to drive one when it came out and it was an event for me and my friends, we just got our licence at the time, each time we would spot it. I had it as a wallpaper on my computer when studying in university for the motivation 😊. Gt2 RS being so expensive and limited I wish Porsche would build a "regular" GT2
Seeing how limited and expensive GT3 and GT4's have got, I don't think that's really a feasible solution. However, it is rumored that we might get a regular GT2 for the 992.2 generation.
@@jkliao6486that would be nice, and surely not that hard to do, with their parts bin...
Lovely. I do wonder, as with the Carrera GT, if the huge steps made in tyre technology have rendered the GT2 less lethal.
This is correct. They’re fine now
It has certainly made a big difference
The advancement in tyre technology has/would indeed be of huge benefit in enhancing the handling capabilities of the said car being reviewed...
What they won't do, unfortunately, is create better drivers of those who own such cars...
Far to many people who drive high powered cars of any brand, have very poor levels of driving skills and are therefore " an accident waiting to happen"...
I myself have owned a number of "nice" cars including an aforementioned Carrera GT and I quite often get the hammer down on demanding roads, but I know how much to push and that is generally way more than most drivers are capable of doing...
I respect what the car is capable of and don't ask it to do anything that it won't...
The GT2 is one of those cars I have idolised since I was a lad. The fact is has very few nanny state electronics is very much a positive for me. As someone who rides superbikes with no traction aids I have no issues at all with a car like the GT2.
GT02 EGG, love it 😂 GT2 with fried egg lights!
Rob lonman driving a gt2 is a good watch.
I bought his car and had it for over 6 years, ended up doing just over 84k miles in that time, should have never let it go......
@chrisdunbar3400 took plenty of abuse when he used it on the events. Was it wrapped/painted a light blue when you owned it? I also think it's back to silver now or the last photos I saw of it.
Glad it was used well after he had it. I did wonder what happened to Rob in recent years as the Internet doesn't have any info.
You have given us very great times recently
458 speciale then the gt4 and now this
Even the biggest car channels never have been more entertaining thank you very much
The 'Widowmaker' was the original 930 Turbo.
That's just lovely. By modern standards the understated design (and colour) and compact size are particularly cool.
Great choice of car. About to sit down with a cuppa to watch!
Not long after I bought my 996.1 GT3 in 2004, I attended a Porsche trackday at Bedford Autodrome where there was a good number of air cooled 911 RS's plus several 996GT3/GT3RS's and a red 996 GT2 with just a few hundred miles on clock. I was finished for the day and chatting to a 993RS owner in the pitlane when I saw the GT2 owner spin nearby and slide on some grass before slaming into a fence outside the pitlane. He was lucky as the only damage appeared to be some stone chips on the rear of the car from the gravel trap. You really have to know what your doing if you want to set a quick lap time these things.
I love the classic proportions of the 996 GT with its understated exterior design when compared to the newer models, keep the classic BoxEngine content coming, I will certainly click the thumbs up button before watching. Thanks JayEmm!
Have driven a GT2, like all cars ever made, it needs to be treated with respect
Those seats were superb, had them in my old 996 GT3.
You have hit the nail on the head. I have owned ours for 13 years now, I never intended on keeping the car that long. But as time passes, it truly has become special to me, as a driving experience and just its ownership. I honestly would not trade it for a 992 RS or any Porsche.
I have a 996 Turbo S manual. Basically a GT2 AWD. Many disconnected FWD. Only 1500 or so 996 Turbo S were made. They call 996 the poor man’s 959. He’s right about it. Clarkson once said about a 997 Turbo. “It’s like a lion, I’m going to kill you”. Cheers boys.
Yup. Fellow Turbo S manual owner here. It’s an absolutely fantastic car. Less aero, AWD and on paper 12 bhp less but most turbo S stray higher than then factory 450 bhp anyways. 192 manual turbo S coupes made btw. Mine is just above 63k km. Forever car 🫶🏻
Clarkson said that about the 996 turbo, it was in the episode where they reviewed the C4S and had the woman in bikinis. 😂
not so simple.
You can think that it is close but substantial modification is needed to be there. Removal of full front drive (to change balance too), huge suspension mods. Turbo is extremely soft not only in suspension but bushings too. Have very relaxed geometry, no wishbones camber setup etc.
Turbo with rwd set up not converted fully is very soft, easy to drive (also way better/easier balanced than gt3/2). Not so harmful on wet too. In general turbo is easy to modify to be quicker than gt3 but way less demanding/special in feeling on the limit.
@@AdamWardach Sorry, my bad. I was misinformed. Thank you for setting the record straight! I deleted my original comment so there's no possibility of me spreading misinfo
Solid princess bride reference
Ah, a man of taste
I still have a 2004 996 Turbo X50 and it's been a dream for reliability. Don't let this video scare you. Yes servicing and other things are expensive on a Porsche (but obviously less than a Ferrari), but buy the right car and you'll be fine. I bought mine with 12,000 miles on it and it's got 42,000 or so now over 13 years. Clutch slave and accumulator is a common issue (that you won't have on a GT2 since it doesn't have the same assist). I did an oil pressure sending unit replacement. Some clunky links in the control arms or something had to be swapped. Most of the money has just gone to basic maintenance, gas, and tires. GT2 is great if you're a collector, but they aren't quite so cheap in the states. 996 Turbo is still the best bargain for experience in a modern Porsche right now as it has been for years. You can always remove the front drive and mod yours up to be like a GT2 or more for pennies on the dollar. They need modern upgraded suspension over stock more than anything else out of the box. I bought a 718 GT4 to replace it but haven't had the heart to sell it yet. It may just hang on a bit longer.
I’ve had my 996 turbo for 12 years and done nearly 40k miles and just done the turbos and some suspension refresh. Feels great. Recently Bought a 991 GT3 but can’t bring myself to sell it too, especially now it’s all refreshed. It’s just done 2500 miles around Europe in a week. Didn’t miss a beat.
@@9MAS My 996 Turbo is now my most reliable car. The 08 Range Rover Supercharged of course has issues and the new car has just blown it's second active engine mount. I like you am very much due for suspension though. Maybe Ohlins if I decide to keep it.
@@TheBucketOfTruth don't sell it! The x50 is awesome
James, I've been dealing a lot lately with post-Covid fatigue, and I have to say I find you delightfully soporific... there's something so soothing about your vocal tone and delivery, you always send me off to sleep, which is a bit of a problem, because I have to keep coming back and rewatching when I'm more awake to actually catch up on the content 😂
But yeah, if I'm having trouble sleeping, I stick on a bit of JayEmm or maybe a Mary Spender vlog... and zzzzzzzzz
Could be worse I suppose!
@@JayEmmOnCars BTW I mentioned your 430 suspension knocking issues to a guy on Pistonheads called mwstewart who has the most insane 430 Spider build... apparently he's seen a few of your videos, and employs Aldous Voice for some maintenance work... but his 430 is basically a full 16M replica, way up on power and 130kg lighter than standard, and I'm hoping you can get hold of it, and he your Scud...
Correct about the servo being removing making the clutch very heavy. There is a popular ‘mod’ on the 997 of revoking the servo from turbos as the assisted clutch is too light and a bit vague finding the biting point.
996 GT2. When I was a kid, I saw one new in the showroom at Porsche Zentrum in Stuttgart. It was quite something just to be in its presence. It was silver and had a sold sign in it. I remember wondering who the lucky rich guy was. One thing's for sure. In those days it couldn't have been a youtuber.
My first project at my first ever job out of undergrad in 2003 was on data for the configurations for Porsche. It was a clusterfuck, but hey I got to explore my love (previously stoked by Need For Speed, Porsche Unleashed) for Porsche's a lot more.
And this was in 2003.
First thing I'd check is the age of the tyres. Otherwise, go nuts.
I always do with performance cars!
@JayEmmOnCars A friend wrote off a Ferrari 456 a few years ago, which we unofficially put down to old tyres. Check your tyres folks. 4 years or older is not good.
@@JayEmmOnCars, you didn't before you drove your friends CLS Shooting Brake AMG 63S!...
One of the most enigmatic 911s.
There are only 2 996 GT2’s for sale at the moment here in Australia - they are both a hair under AUD$400,000. That’s over 200,000 pounds, so…. the UK is sounding like a bargain!
In the early days of UA-cam, there was an anonymous guy nick named ‘Mad Rob’ who had a GT2. Used to show off with insane driving on early Gumballs. I always link a 996 GT2 with him!
There's a silver GT2 in East Sussex, seemingly quiet and innocent, but with a reg plate that hints at its diabolical nature.
Spot on review!
This was never considered a widow maker, that title goes to the 930 Turbo and maybe the Carrera GT.
The Carrera GT is no Widowmaker... Only the drivers with poor driving skills who have driven and crashed one, have given it that unfair moniker...
How do I know?... I owned on in the mid 2000s and I'm here to tell the truth...
A " Miss Daisy" car when needed and an awesome handling steed on demanding roads...
Pretty sure the 930 Twin Turbo is the “Widowmaker”.
@@Wargasm54 there was no twin turbo 930
@@-Jason-L my bad, it was a single turbo. But it was known as “the Widowmaker” or could’ve been the 993 a few years later. But pretty certain it was the 930 Turbo that was affectionately known as The Widowmaker. Probably due to its single turbo dumping all the power at once. I think that’s why they went twin shortly after.
This is my dream Porsche. Its basically a 930 with modern (for the time) amenities.
Cars hits your eyes directly but Porsche is different , it hits your soul
The hydraulic assisted cluth in the 996TT and 997TT was an absolute nightmare. I've been driving manual transmission cars for over thirty years, and those were the only ones I've ever owned where starting off from a dead stop was always a gamble, lol. The hydraulic system made it very easy to press in, but it also made it so there was always a different engagement point. The GT2 slave retrofit was one of the only fixes for the issue.
I dreamed of that car so much when I was a kid, but 20 years later it doesn’t do much for me at all, but I still respect what it is.
The car is simply something special. We took on a 996 GT2 a few years ago, and now it's even closer to the title of “Widowmaker” ;)
There's a beautiful 996 Turbo around the corner from me, that also looks splendid in that colour. Very classy.
I remember building a Tamiya kit of one of these in high school! Thanks for the nostalgia!
I love these things.I had a ride in a 996 GT3 back when they were new. Always loved these things. When I saw one a few years ago driving around, I lost my shit.
I really value your opinion on this car as you have driven its contemporary counterparts . The True sign of a cars greatness is the test of time
As a 996 4S owner this is my dream car! Thanks for the outstanding review Jay.
It's a shape that I used to hate, but has aged quite gracefully. Nice car.
To anyone who is in marketing with a large corporation:
As the Americans have the UA-cam version of Top Gear with CarTrek and we recently ran out of supply with Grand Tour, I vote Jayemm, Sam (Seen Through Glass) and Tim (Shmee) to team up because of their unique dynamics and 2 of them are already known to travel with their cars.
By the early 2000s, practically every major manufacturer had an online configurator of some sort. These kinds of online configurators began in the mid-90s, as far as I can remember.
James I'm loving your florid analogies. And the florid shirts.
You have the best intro of any youtube channel. So awesome.
God the 996 is looking better and better these days. I still think the market is sleeping on 996’s. I have no doubt 996 Turbo (manuals) GT3’s, GT2’s are only going to go in one direction.
That's right. Look at the side profile of all the 911s, the 996 is the best. Porsche fans can be idiots.
Agreed. The prices have softened for 996 turbos yet the 993 turbos have gone up and up. Won’t sell mine.
@@9MAS Not that people should keep them as investments as they should be used and enjoyed, but I really do think the 996 Turbo’s time is only round the corner
996 GT2 is a dangerous dream! I have previously owned a -99 996 C4 Tip, and a -02 996.2GT3CS. The GT3 also had no PSM and I unfortunately binned it on the NBR in the wet. Very, very, very dangerous cars. I don’t think the GT2 is any better handling. But still I’d like to own one one day😅
I spun my 996 in the wet too, I was incredibly lucky to spin into the median strip literally in between two trees and drove away unharmed and undamaged.
What I learned was that because the rear tyres are so wide it is easy to have rear tyres that look to have good tread but actually the inside of the tyres an be worn which on a low car is very easy to miss. My take out was to run my hand across the face of the tyre before each drive to check tyre wear and to never drive it in the wet with a tyre that did not have lots of tread.
@@MrCarrera28my tires were 2 days old. Sport Cup 2’s in the wet on NBR without PSM = lunacy
@@Nord_Mann Agreed!!
Thank you!
Hey, James. Great review, as always! From now on, you should splice in some footage of your facial expressions while driving hard. But especially in cars like this that you know could potentially kill you at any given second while hammering it, lol. Also, nice millisecond shot of your (& my) blue Tag Heuer Monaco at the 20:20 mark. Safe travels and keep up the great work, my friend.
Best regards,
Norm From across the pond
Thanks to you I have grown really fond of Porsche 996. Not that I'd be in position to be able to buy one any time soon, but now every time I see a 996 I find myself admiring the thing. My favourite would be the 996.2 GT2 in Speed Yellow and the tart-tastic GT3 RS. Maybe 996.2 Turbo S too. In Speed Yellow.
EDIT: Porsche actually never really abandoned GT2 class. After the reclassification of the GT class racing with GT1 and GT2 class returning to FIA GT Championship in 2005 - taking over from GT and N-GT class previously used from 1999 - Porsche always took part in GT2 (and later renamed GTE) class in FIA GT, the failed FIA GT2 European Championship in 2010 (which actually only consists of Spa 24 Hours as its sole race), Le Mans Endurance Series (later Le Mans Series, ILMC and WEC), American Le Mans Series (and subsequently IMSA WTSC), and European Le Mans Series. But the cars they use, weirdly, has always been based on 911 GT3, with 996 GT3 RS, 997 GT3 RSR and 3 different generations of 991 RSR up until GTE class was abolished last year.
It’s not raining 🌧️ the road hasn’t got diesel on it, there’s no ice.
So you’re not going to experience the widow making qualities
And I'm grateful!
Community: can anyone recommend a content creator for motorcycles that has the same degree of maturity and enthusiam as JAYEMM does for 4 wheels? ... Because I like both 2 and 4 .... and the 2 wheel youtube environment is even more full of performative rubbish that the 2 wheel one...
... 4 wheel one...
Try Tim Rodie
@@JayEmmOnCars Many thanks!
Like you James, I lusted after these when I was 16. I even went as far as to modify one of the cars in Need for Speed: Porsche unleashed to come as close as possible to the gt2.
Another great vid and from your summary perhaps a vid with the GT2 at the ring to explore it more?
Good review. The values are where they are for examples that have been on the market for some time, for good reason. Most GT2s have some kind of “story” given what you rightly said about the combination of power, RWD and tyre technology at the time. The handful of clean examples go for much more and don’t stick around on the market for long!
great review
That's a stunning color. Many air cooled cars and 928's had that color too. Probably Iris Blue?
If anyone asks why you have so many subscribers, tell them to watch this.
Loved it.
Pro tip, don't get married so no widow can be made in the first place :)
Rare car is an understatement. I've seen it claimed that there were only 16 UK gen 2's (483bhp version).
My Boss had a black GT2 back in the early 2000’s.
Twas a beast, sadly he could not drive. But lots of words came out of his mouth… 😂😂😂
Great video mate..Also I laughed a lot about the story of your mother in law..Greetings from Athens-Greece keep up the good work
Mine was an absolute pig when I got it. Sent it to Chris @ Centre Gravity and he made it an joy to thrash. They're very sensitive to suspension setup.
I'm pretty sure it was the 996 GT2 that I read that is not actually a Widowmaker, that it's actually a very well-behaved car that just has a zero tolerance policy for people who drive it like an idiot and so was the Bane of the Banker. For me the GT2 is the true petrol heads car; it's for a driver, not a poser. Basically a German TVR.
It makes me laugh these days that the once-maligned 996 generation is coming very much into fashion, it's not just the cheapest way into a Porsche, it's actually becoming a route people want to go. I've always had a soft spot for the 996 to be honest, and the Turbo bodykit I think looks great.
driven on the edge they have a tendency to suddenly spin. it's hard to control because there is very little warning before they go.
i think it's more about engine placement and balance than TC.
take it on to a track lol
GT2 clutch is a direct acting slave, the turbo clutch uses an accumulator. However, I fitted a new clutch pedal helper spring to my GT box, which really lightened the pedal. So much so, that I didn't use the SRM slave I had planned because it became acceptable. Maybe try that?
Had a tuned 996 Turbo and every time I took it out I feared it would be the last time..
Where does one even buy a shirt like that 😂
TY 🙏🙏
4:53 I thought he was going to say “..and a pair…
…of huge balls!” 😂
When you wanna try out the f40 , f50, la Ferrari, sp3.... McLaren f1, we need to see your reviews on that bunch
Sounds Like the Best 911!!!!
That outside camera facing you produces quality like green screen.
Please drive a 991.1 Turbo
Looks like from the height of the tail pipes this car could use a new set of motor mounts!
Beautiful car, sounds like it needs some serious dampers and alignment for modern tyres. 👍
now i cant unsee the CTR Aston vantage spoiler on this GT2!
What a fantastic number plate 😂
Like deployed in recognition of the risk you took to make this video 🙂, good stuff as always 👍🏼
Cheers Lee!
I'm not sure if this applies to the GT2, but I know quite a few 996 owners have removed the helper spring behind the clutch pedal to make it feel stiffer
I'd like to see you drive a Fiat X1/9, from around 1980. After all it's 'the original' affordable mid engined sportscar. Later came things like the MR2 and Elise...I know, I know, you're asking yourself: Why would I? Well, because low expectations in combination with positive experiences can put a smile on your face. Just look at Number 27.
It’s far more closely related to a gt3 than a turbo S.
I'd be the guy going crazy after spotting a 996 GT2 in a carpark. 🤩
Wild car…the 997 GT2 is even crazier & limited to 500…which I’m sure you are all over.
My dear friend Paul bought one new it was amazing. ❤️
Oh man, that is my dream car.
Amazing review.
My brother in law purchased one of the last ones I think it was 04 in same colour brand new got a massive discount from Porsche
Think it was 110k ish not sure exactly .
He took me out in it touching 160 mph on a b road seemed very fast .
He then let me drive it I was a little scared was fast and beautiful.
He didn’t have it long part exchanged it for a brand new discounted SLS ! .
He did the same with that took a massive loss .
How times have changed! .
Have to say the SLS I drove also special and drew a crowd at the local pub .
I would love a GT2 today understated I like the fact only enthusiasts would notice 👍
Widowmaker by analogy of murderous mother-in-law? What a ride!
James, I’m trying to work from home but keep being distracted by your videos!
There he goes ,waving his left hand around in the air again..
That term does get thrown around fairly liberally these days but, in my opinion, this was the last *true* widowmaker. The only help it gives you is ABS, and that only does so much keeping the rear in-check. I've driven one of these with some regularity (one that's been lightly chipped to ~530hp) and I do think much of the reputation is down to either poor setup or people out-driving their talent, but at 8/10ths or more you definitely have to be driving ahead of the car with respect to the boost delivery on turn exit, since there's no TCS, no fancy variable vane turbos to smooth out that punch, or AWD to get it to the ground.
Beast.