This is really why all these games keep falling apart. Isn't business 101 to diversify your investments? I guess if they can't get basic stuff like a working scoreboard right, that checks out.
Back in the BF3 days, we begged DICE/EA to release the modding tools but they given us a middle finger instead. Guess they are paying the price for it now.
Strangely enough, this complete incompetence from games this past decade made it super easy for almost anyone and their dog to do better than a big shot company with their own multi-billion-dollar game engine.
My problem with Frostbite is that it doesn't prioritizes collisions but instead the assets, if you have low-end machine or just have the game on old HDD in a decent PC, or the game being unoptimized mess, you will fall off the map or pass through traffic cars despite seeing high res roads/cars, this happens on every NFS games, happens on Bioware games but just the falling off the map part. I would rather it to be like just any other games, i know my PC is weak, i want to see low res stuff but let me go through, instead of losing my progress, yeah another weird thing is that the game doesn't pause when it's on "loading assets" mode where you see a black screen with loading icon but you hear cops siren closing in, and being greeted by a busted scene when the assets has loaded in.
I've never had this a problem frostbite for me has always been amazingly optimized game looks great with seemingly no issues with barely any loading screens
The fact that car from Need For Speed after 2015 when they switched to the frostbite engine can still at times feel similar to the scout vehicles in battlefield says a lot in my opinion, because they really shouldn't feel similar and people have complained about Ghost Games driving models since they first took over the series with Rivals. I just hope need for speed finds an engine that is actually built for racing and not just shooting.
That is a fair point. A racing game should definitely have better and more unique physics than a fps game, I'm not sure how well Unreal Engine would work with such game (I know EA Sports WRC runs on UE4 so with enough work maybe it would be okay), CryEngine could be a contender aswell but the best results would probably come from a proprietary engine developed specifically with this genre in mind - which is what Codemasters have done with their Neon/Ego Engine
@@JackOfBlackPhoenix2 CM dropped Ego for UE4 with EA WRC. They might still be using it for F1 titles, but they might also switch that over too. They've been fighting Ego for a while. The issue is making these game engines is very expensive and a full time thing. CM has been tacking on to Ego since 2007 and as far back as 2015 the devs were openly discussing setbacks and shortcomings of the engine. Games are bigger and more complicated while also "needing" to run higher fidelity, which is the real killer. It's just no longer viable to try and maintain your own engine when Unreal can do pretty much everything and there's thousands of devs worldwide getting experienced with it. Which also makes new hires and expansion/contracting far easier.
@@JZStudiosonline Admittedly, I haven't played WRC yet so I can't be the judge on how it compares to games that run on proprietary engines, but I agree that if the devs are struggling with their own engines then UE would be the best option. My hesitance in recommending UE for this type of games is solely caused by the fact that until WRC, there were no major racing franchise that utilized Unreal, so it might be just a matter of proving it in practice on a larger scale
@@JackOfBlackPhoenix2 Assetto Corsa Competizione is using Unreal. I also haven't tried WRC, but common consensus is that physics wise it's pretty close to DR2. It's going to be easier to use UE4's physics engine, or make your own adjustments to that engine, than trying to maintain the entire rest of the engine. One of the bigger drawbacks of EGO was they had to cut stages pretty short because the engine couldn't handle longer stages. They also only ran 1 car at a time (outside rallycross) because again, the engine couldn't handle it. Personally I think Cryengine has the best render engine, but it's also supposedly a pain to work with. Annoyingly, I've had arguments with people about Frostbite because they don't know how to read and think a Bioware dev said Frostbite is really good for racing games. Not only is that not what he said, but he's a Bioware dev and they literally don't do racing games. He said "Frostbite is like an F1 car, it's exceptionally good at exactly one thing, and nothing else." So somehow that means it's the best engine for racing games.
NFS The Run's handling model feels like it has proper weight compared to the modern NFS, it kinda feels like ProStreet but more controllable and sticks to the road, so i don't know what happened between The Run all the way to Rivals, i still don't understand why they don't use The Run handling model which was also built on Frostbite, could be incompatibilities? since it was also released on 2011, it might be on the first Frostbite or Frostbite 2.
The real problem with frostbite? It's not for sale. If an engine is jealously kept in-house, the possibility of it being expanded and worked on by many talented individuals is slim to none. Unreal is developing and expanding BY THE HOUR because it's out there, ready to be bought or experienced for free under license. Frostbite had its time, there are plenty 'a better engines to work with nowadays.
It’s also I would say EA and the developers in general having issue with the engine as it’s known for being hard to work with Rumours say after BFV most of the devs left which left the new comers to deal with learning how to use frostbite and because it’s hard af to work with and doesn’t get updated often enough this causes problems Look again rockstar’s game engine RAGE even though it’s not free to use when it comes to visuals and the games it puts out it’s up their with unreal with some reports saying it’s more powerful it helps that rockstar focus on one game compared to unreal but the case still stands that because RAGE gets updated frequently and has veteran developers helping it maintains its legacy compared to frostbite
Frostbite is a masterpiece, but it can only be mastered by the original creators. Unfortunately, most of them have left DICE Stockholm. With them, quality and love also left.
The Frostbite engine has something that allows it look hyper-realistic and hold up this quality for a long time. Battlefront 1 from 2015 is a shooter game with the best fps/visual quality rate I have experienced. There are lots of games in its genre, that to this date look about the same or worse and perform A LOT worse (Squad, Insurgency Sandstorm, Fortnite, Apex Legends). The engine just has to fall into right hands - Battlefront 2015 or Battlefield V turned out great, but then you have Battlefield 2042 that is just a straight graphical and design step-back from previous instalments.
What EA should do is to instruct Dice and provide them with the resources to make a subsidary for Frostbite Engine development, and give the teams a list of features they they will need to be upgraded inside the engine. And if they are already confident with their progess, make them make tech demos for something like an open world game and showcase to companies like Bioware
From what I know what engines (As a stuntent) physics heavy engines tend to be more of a pain to work with. Then one's that have little to no physics in it. So that's one thing to keep in mind when developers struggle to use it.
A voiced video with somber Battlefield soundtrack on the background? Heck yeah sign me up! But yeah, I wish Frostbite wasn't forced upon devs by EA. I just wish every dev team under EA get to choose their desired engine to work with so that the results are satisfactory for the teams and consumers alike.
I think they should pick up and follow suite with Embark studios (the devs of The Finals and Ark Raiders). They're the original battlefield devs who made it what it is today (or at least what it once was) and they made damn sure they came out of the gate putting the right foot forward for the sake of creating quality games without making profit the sole perogitive, which is what EA is now notorious for..
I think it's rather telling that the Dead Space remake team reworked entire sections of the engine for the game's purposes, only to switch to the Unreal engine for their upcoming Iron Man game. Don't get me wrong, what they did with DSR was incredible, especially the streaming when it comes to traversing the entire length of the Ishimura, it's just telling more than anything else. Frostbite was clearly only intended for games made by DICE, so forcing it on everyone else just feels like a way of cheaping out on licensing deals more than anything else. I'm not a fan of Unreal and Epic becoming a de facto monopoly in the industry either, but unless studios start treating their proprietary engines better (such as Capcom with the RE Engine and Remedy with Northlight) then this will be the future trend unfortunately.
Yeah, it was made exclusively with First Person games in mind so it's no surprise that forcing it into Third Person games was a mess. At least it seems that EA has finally realized that it was a poor move on their part, so we'll have to wait and see how the new change in their approach to letting devs work on any engine they want is going to affect them long-term, but with UE5 dominating the landscape the results are quite predictable as you've said.
@JZStudiosonline not exactly a problem on console, plus I admire their creative energy. AW2 sure has a lot going on, but it all combines to create an unforgettable experience. Without it, their games would blend into everything else, and I don't exactly want that at all.
Very informative video! The forcing of Frostbite was one of the primary reasons for shutting down Star Wars Project Ragtag. Also if the Frostbite engine is really great for first person shooters, then why should they consider replacing it? Is it just because of the operating difficulty that leads to delays + teaching new staff or anymore other possible reasons? The visual fidelity of the both Frostbite and Cry Engine is insane, but can Cry Engine's destruction be as good as Frostbite? Well...they could also modify Cry Engine to fit their needs
It's just a thought experiment, but yes Frostbite is notoriously known to be difficult to work with even in the first-person genre (according to ex-DICE devs, high complexity made it hard to properly bugfix their games as fixing one thing often broke something else) As showcased in the video, I think CryEngine could easily replace the Frostbite, Crysis 1 alone had a destruction system even more technologically advanced than any of the Battlefield games and that was 17 years ago so it probably could be pushed even further at this point in time.
It is by far the best looking game engine I've ever seen. Just subjective of course, but it's the only one which truly feels so real I start to feel immersed. The Cry engine looks great but there's a sort of plastic look to it. Frostbite looks real, or like hyperreal cinema. Use it where appropriate, use another engine when not!
unreal engine 5 low diff which kinda is the main problem. Why would you ever dump money into an engine that cannot compete with the resources and and technology behind unreal. Id say just pay the engine fees
@@unityman3133 I'd say frostbite looks better. You have to remember the only reason UE5 looks the way it does is because they're ray tracing everything, battlefield looks the way it does through rasterization. Anybody can add ray tracing to the render pipeline if they wanted, the things that make UE5 "unique" aren't actually unique to UE5.
@@icydec3346 ue5 lighting component "lumen" is not ray tracing. Also one of the main reasons ue5 looks the way it does is because of nanite. Frostbite cannot compete with the tech behind that engine. No engine can compete with ue5
Need For Speed its downfall is pretty much to thank to Frostbite. The physics never worked since, and it put two studios into the grave and left criterion half dead. It is such a shame. I really hope things change, but its probably too late for nfs its racing studios
More to do with the dev studios in charge then the engine. If you go compare The Run (developed by EA Blackbox) with Rivals or newer games (Ghost/Criterion developed) its like a night and day difference.
i replayed BF1,BF3,BF4, BFV and Fifa 17 using a rtx 4090 at 6k res and the frostbite engine just blew everything away that we see today. Its just incredible and a waste of a very good engine, which i think is well optimised now.
The frequent Frostbite engine audio crashes encountered while playing Mass Effect Andromeda multi-player prompted me to permanently uninstall Andromeda and immediately become disinterested in any other games based on that engine. Campaign-wise, Andromeda was a huge step down from the ME trilogy, but multiplayer was a blast until I kept losing my audio, which was only resolvable by *rebooting* my PC...
I don't think that Dice and BF games will abandon Frostbite, the results it outputs are beautiful. Switching to Cryengine makes no sense to me, just because they do similar things doesn't mean the switch would be positive or it would be suitable: first of all Crytek has been on shaky grounds before (almost went out of business), so maintenance of the engine would be even more outside EA/Dice's control and it would be a "worse off" situation. Second, they would have to change their whole work pipeline and onboard several studios on it... just for the "bonus" of hiring new people? Anyway very few people learn Cryengine despite it being freely available, because only Crytek and a handful of others use it, so only indies that are going to make a game with it, or people looking to be hired by Crytek learn it. I think EA would need to acquire Crytek before they decide to use their engine. Personally I think Frostbite is superior as a result, so I don't think they would. For all the other games, there will probably a mix of UE5 and in-house depending on the title. I think it would be cool for them to have an engine for sports titles, one for driving games and one for shooters/action. It will be interesting to see what happens!
It was originally meant to be a free to play battle royale but switched to a mainline entry during development. That's probably why it doesn't have the same gameplay polish or destruction as past entries.
EA wants money, not interested invest into new game polish just cut corners without give time without money but support their human lives not mistreated brain dead
Frostbite is a perfect example of the "don't put all your eggs in one basket" case.
This is really why all these games keep falling apart. Isn't business 101 to diversify your investments? I guess if they can't get basic stuff like a working scoreboard right, that checks out.
Back in the BF3 days, we begged DICE/EA to release the modding tools but they given us a middle finger instead. Guess they are paying the price for it now.
Strangely enough, this complete incompetence from games this past decade made it super easy for almost anyone and their dog to do better than a big shot company with their own multi-billion-dollar game engine.
My problem with Frostbite is that it doesn't prioritizes collisions but instead the assets, if you have low-end machine or just have the game on old HDD in a decent PC, or the game being unoptimized mess, you will fall off the map or pass through traffic cars despite seeing high res roads/cars, this happens on every NFS games, happens on Bioware games but just the falling off the map part.
I would rather it to be like just any other games, i know my PC is weak, i want to see low res stuff but let me go through, instead of losing my progress, yeah another weird thing is that the game doesn't pause when it's on "loading assets" mode where you see a black screen with loading icon but you hear cops siren closing in, and being greeted by a busted scene when the assets has loaded in.
I've never had this a problem frostbite for me has always been amazingly optimized game looks great with seemingly no issues with barely any loading screens
The fact that car from Need For Speed after 2015 when they switched to the frostbite engine can still at times feel similar to the scout vehicles in battlefield says a lot in my opinion, because they really shouldn't feel similar and people have complained about Ghost Games driving models since they first took over the series with Rivals. I just hope need for speed finds an engine that is actually built for racing and not just shooting.
That is a fair point. A racing game should definitely have better and more unique physics than a fps game, I'm not sure how well Unreal Engine would work with such game (I know EA Sports WRC runs on UE4 so with enough work maybe it would be okay), CryEngine could be a contender aswell but the best results would probably come from a proprietary engine developed specifically with this genre in mind - which is what Codemasters have done with their Neon/Ego Engine
@@JackOfBlackPhoenix2 CM dropped Ego for UE4 with EA WRC. They might still be using it for F1 titles, but they might also switch that over too. They've been fighting Ego for a while. The issue is making these game engines is very expensive and a full time thing. CM has been tacking on to Ego since 2007 and as far back as 2015 the devs were openly discussing setbacks and shortcomings of the engine.
Games are bigger and more complicated while also "needing" to run higher fidelity, which is the real killer. It's just no longer viable to try and maintain your own engine when Unreal can do pretty much everything and there's thousands of devs worldwide getting experienced with it. Which also makes new hires and expansion/contracting far easier.
@@JZStudiosonline Admittedly, I haven't played WRC yet so I can't be the judge on how it compares to games that run on proprietary engines, but I agree that if the devs are struggling with their own engines then UE would be the best option. My hesitance in recommending UE for this type of games is solely caused by the fact that until WRC, there were no major racing franchise that utilized Unreal, so it might be just a matter of proving it in practice on a larger scale
@@JackOfBlackPhoenix2 Assetto Corsa Competizione is using Unreal. I also haven't tried WRC, but common consensus is that physics wise it's pretty close to DR2. It's going to be easier to use UE4's physics engine, or make your own adjustments to that engine, than trying to maintain the entire rest of the engine. One of the bigger drawbacks of EGO was they had to cut stages pretty short because the engine couldn't handle longer stages. They also only ran 1 car at a time (outside rallycross) because again, the engine couldn't handle it.
Personally I think Cryengine has the best render engine, but it's also supposedly a pain to work with.
Annoyingly, I've had arguments with people about Frostbite because they don't know how to read and think a Bioware dev said Frostbite is really good for racing games. Not only is that not what he said, but he's a Bioware dev and they literally don't do racing games. He said "Frostbite is like an F1 car, it's exceptionally good at exactly one thing, and nothing else."
So somehow that means it's the best engine for racing games.
NFS The Run's handling model feels like it has proper weight compared to the modern NFS, it kinda feels like ProStreet but more controllable and sticks to the road, so i don't know what happened between The Run all the way to Rivals, i still don't understand why they don't use The Run handling model which was also built on Frostbite, could be incompatibilities? since it was also released on 2011, it might be on the first Frostbite or Frostbite 2.
The real problem with frostbite? It's not for sale. If an engine is jealously kept in-house, the possibility of it being expanded and worked on by many talented individuals is slim to none. Unreal is developing and expanding BY THE HOUR because it's out there, ready to be bought or experienced for free under license.
Frostbite had its time, there are plenty 'a better engines to work with nowadays.
not true multiple games with other studios use frostbite, especially Embark studio using it for their games
@@AidYannembark does not use frostbite lmfao
@@AidYann nope. Unrral engine 5.
oh it looks a lot like it, bc the devs from bf@@i_love_musique333
It’s also I would say EA and the developers in general having issue with the engine as it’s known for being hard to work with
Rumours say after BFV most of the devs left which left the new comers to deal with learning how to use frostbite and because it’s hard af to work with and doesn’t get updated often enough this causes problems
Look again rockstar’s game engine RAGE even though it’s not free to use when it comes to visuals and the games it puts out it’s up their with unreal with some reports saying it’s more powerful it helps that rockstar focus on one game compared to unreal but the case still stands that because RAGE gets updated frequently and has veteran developers helping it maintains its legacy compared to frostbite
Frostbite is a masterpiece, but it can only be mastered by the original creators. Unfortunately, most of them have left DICE Stockholm. With them, quality and love also left.
Look at Battlefront 2.
I’ll never forgive EA for what they did to Frostbite. Such a waste of an engine years ahead of its time.
The Frostbite engine has something that allows it look hyper-realistic and hold up this quality for a long time. Battlefront 1 from 2015 is a shooter game with the best fps/visual quality rate I have experienced. There are lots of games in its genre, that to this date look about the same or worse and perform A LOT worse (Squad, Insurgency Sandstorm, Fortnite, Apex Legends).
The engine just has to fall into right hands - Battlefront 2015 or Battlefield V turned out great, but then you have Battlefield 2042 that is just a straight graphical and design step-back from previous instalments.
i wonder why
What EA should do is to instruct Dice and provide them with the resources to make a subsidary for Frostbite Engine development, and give the teams a list of features they they will need to be upgraded inside the engine. And if they are already confident with their progess, make them make tech demos for something like an open world game and showcase to companies like Bioware
From what I know what engines (As a stuntent) physics heavy engines tend to be more of a pain to work with. Then one's that have little to no physics in it.
So that's one thing to keep in mind when developers struggle to use it.
You aren't wrong with the similarities between Frostbite and Cry Engine. I played Battlefield 3 recently and it reminded me of Crysis so much.
A voiced video with somber Battlefield soundtrack on the background? Heck yeah sign me up!
But yeah, I wish Frostbite wasn't forced upon devs by EA. I just wish every dev team under EA get to choose their desired engine to work with so that the results are satisfactory for the teams and consumers alike.
I think they should pick up and follow suite with Embark studios (the devs of The Finals and Ark Raiders).
They're the original battlefield devs who made it what it is today (or at least what it once was) and they made damn sure they came out of the gate putting the right foot forward for the sake of creating quality games without making profit the sole perogitive, which is what EA is now notorious for..
This engine peaked on BFV in my opinion.
No its garden warfare 2
I think it's rather telling that the Dead Space remake team reworked entire sections of the engine for the game's purposes, only to switch to the Unreal engine for their upcoming Iron Man game. Don't get me wrong, what they did with DSR was incredible, especially the streaming when it comes to traversing the entire length of the Ishimura, it's just telling more than anything else. Frostbite was clearly only intended for games made by DICE, so forcing it on everyone else just feels like a way of cheaping out on licensing deals more than anything else. I'm not a fan of Unreal and Epic becoming a de facto monopoly in the industry either, but unless studios start treating their proprietary engines better (such as Capcom with the RE Engine and Remedy with Northlight) then this will be the future trend unfortunately.
Yeah, it was made exclusively with First Person games in mind so it's no surprise that forcing it into Third Person games was a mess. At least it seems that EA has finally realized that it was a poor move on their part, so we'll have to wait and see how the new change in their approach to letting devs work on any engine they want is going to affect them long-term, but with UE5 dominating the landscape the results are quite predictable as you've said.
Also Epic Games is partly owned by Tencent………..
@@LyonPercival So is everything else on the open market.
I just wish Remedy would take a step back from trying to be the next Crysis every god damn game so they would at least be playable.
@JZStudiosonline not exactly a problem on console, plus I admire their creative energy. AW2 sure has a lot going on, but it all combines to create an unforgettable experience. Without it, their games would blend into everything else, and I don't exactly want that at all.
Very informative video!
The forcing of Frostbite was one of the primary reasons for shutting down Star Wars Project Ragtag.
Also if the Frostbite engine is really great for first person shooters, then why should they consider replacing it? Is it just because of the operating difficulty that leads to delays + teaching new staff or anymore other possible reasons? The visual fidelity of the both Frostbite and Cry Engine is insane, but can Cry Engine's destruction be as good as Frostbite? Well...they could also modify Cry Engine to fit their needs
It's just a thought experiment, but yes Frostbite is notoriously known to be difficult to work with even in the first-person genre (according to ex-DICE devs, high complexity made it hard to properly bugfix their games as fixing one thing often broke something else)
As showcased in the video, I think CryEngine could easily replace the Frostbite, Crysis 1 alone had a destruction system even more technologically advanced than any of the Battlefield games and that was 17 years ago so it probably could be pushed even further at this point in time.
It is by far the best looking game engine I've ever seen. Just subjective of course, but it's the only one which truly feels so real I start to feel immersed. The Cry engine looks great but there's a sort of plastic look to it. Frostbite looks real, or like hyperreal cinema. Use it where appropriate, use another engine when not!
unreal engine 5 low diff which kinda is the main problem. Why would you ever dump money into an engine that cannot compete with the resources and and technology behind unreal. Id say just pay the engine fees
@@unityman3133 I'd say frostbite looks better. You have to remember the only reason UE5 looks the way it does is because they're ray tracing everything, battlefield looks the way it does through rasterization. Anybody can add ray tracing to the render pipeline if they wanted, the things that make UE5 "unique" aren't actually unique to UE5.
@@icydec3346 ue5 lighting component "lumen" is not ray tracing. Also one of the main reasons ue5 looks the way it does is because of nanite. Frostbite cannot compete with the tech behind that engine. No engine can compete with ue5
The Finals runs on Unreal Engine 5 but the game feels like a modernized version of Bad Company 2 engine, it seems to be extremely versatile.
I honestly didn't pay attention to who uploaded this lol. I assumed this was another big channel but you only have 2k? crazy
I knew him beforehard because he went through the trouble of compiling many of the hidden gems of the BF1 and BF5 soundtracks that aren't on the OST.
Was waiting for you to suggest that their shooters should use the Source engine
Need For Speed its downfall is pretty much to thank to Frostbite. The physics never worked since, and it put two studios into the grave and left criterion half dead. It is such a shame. I really hope things change, but its probably too late for nfs its racing studios
More to do with the dev studios in charge then the engine. If you go compare The Run (developed by EA Blackbox) with Rivals or newer games (Ghost/Criterion developed) its like a night and day difference.
I would really like to know the soundtrack you using in the background, It's similar to BF4 jin jin revaloution
ua-cam.com/video/fCvbQQHQkl8/v-deo.html
3:19 what game is that?
unreal tech demo trailer for the new unreal 6
Battlefield 5
@@SweatyFeetGirl oh nice. thanks
i replayed BF1,BF3,BF4, BFV and Fifa 17 using a rtx 4090 at 6k res and the frostbite engine just blew everything away that we see today. Its just incredible and a waste of a very good engine, which i think is well optimised now.
Thanks for not including Mirror Edge
The frequent Frostbite engine audio crashes encountered while playing Mass Effect Andromeda multi-player prompted me to permanently uninstall Andromeda and immediately become disinterested in any other games based on that engine. Campaign-wise, Andromeda was a huge step down from the ME trilogy, but multiplayer was a blast until I kept losing my audio, which was only resolvable by *rebooting* my PC...
damn bro you got that perfect narrator voice lol, gud vid btw very well made and put together
maybe if cod or other FPS added levaluation to there games the main selling point of Frostbite then they would be worth playing
I don't think that Dice and BF games will abandon Frostbite, the results it outputs are beautiful. Switching to Cryengine makes no sense to me, just because they do similar things doesn't mean the switch would be positive or it would be suitable: first of all Crytek has been on shaky grounds before (almost went out of business), so maintenance of the engine would be even more outside EA/Dice's control and it would be a "worse off" situation. Second, they would have to change their whole work pipeline and onboard several studios on it... just for the "bonus" of hiring new people? Anyway very few people learn Cryengine despite it being freely available, because only Crytek and a handful of others use it, so only indies that are going to make a game with it, or people looking to be hired by Crytek learn it. I think EA would need to acquire Crytek before they decide to use their engine.
Personally I think Frostbite is superior as a result, so I don't think they would.
For all the other games, there will probably a mix of UE5 and in-house depending on the title. I think it would be cool for them to have an engine for sports titles, one for driving games and one for shooters/action.
It will be interesting to see what happens!
the BF 2042 why didn t it turn out so pretty?And destructibility
It was originally meant to be a free to play battle royale but switched to a mainline entry during development. That's probably why it doesn't have the same gameplay polish or destruction as past entries.
EA wants money, not interested invest into new game polish just cut corners without give time without money but support their human lives not mistreated brain dead