Using Zinsser dewaxed shellac on guitar body as sanding sealer and Tru-oil base coat
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- The first step after all finish sanding is completed to penetrate deep into the wood to stiffen softer woods and as sanding sealer and to promote adhesion of finishing varnish.
Awesome....learning a ton. Thank you for putting these out.
Such a beautifull Redwood top! Congratulations!
My God, Joe....that guitar is so beautiful, I do believe it could play itself!
Holy crap, agree. That is one of the most beatiful tops I have ever seen. That straight sand line for the layer between woods on the arm comfort cut had to be hard to get right. It looks great. Awesome work!
I've been a professional home restore finisher painter since 1980. I started helping my grandad in 1972 and have used virtually every kind of coating known to man. Most of what I did was Coatings and finishes. I started doing repairs on the homes that I worked on because I got tired of going behind Jack legs that made a mess. I would have to tear their crap off and redo it so I started doing it myself. At any rate if you really want the flood this finish onto a guitar you should be using a Wooster yachtsman Marine varnish brush. They have a black plastic handle instead of a wood handle and because of this they are about 40% less than a comparable brush with a wood handle. My favorite size would be a 2-1/2" but you might like a 2-inch. You can really flood the surface with these. You can put so much on in one coat that it looks like you've dipped it and it will soak in a lot better than the way you're doing it with a rag because by putting it on one heavy coat it drinks it in all at once. When you put a light thin coat on with a rag it drinks it in and seals it preventing the surface from taking as much in on the subsequent coats, whereas putting a very thick coat all at once it doesn't have time to seal anything, it just drinks it right in. This is as close as you're going to get to dipping it without dipping it. If you want to add a little color you can get wax free Garnet shellac, black shellac or Amber shellac flakes. These coloured Shellac flakes look dark, but when you apply them they are nothing like stain, they're very very transparent. It would be well worth your money to invest in the type of brush I suggested. Or if you want to get an even better brush you can get those little Worcester pencil handle brushes. That's what we Painter's call them. They have a wood handle the size of one of those fat kindergarten pencils that you get in kindergarten or first grade. The only difference is these have a slightly higher bristle count and the bristles are a little longer. The yachtsman is a great brush because it has a finer grade of china bristle. It's a blonde china bristle brush, but the bristles themselves are finer and it has a larger Gap in the center with a little less bristle count which makes the tips a little more flexible and softer. The higher your bristle count the more compressed the bristles are in the brush which makes them feel stiffer across the tip of the brush even though the bristles are not any more coarse. You save money by getting a plastic handle brush, the wood handle gives you no benefit. All the old-timers used to use those brushes for oil paint but hardly anybody uses oil paint anymore. They get better after you use them a little while and get broke in until the corners start getting too rounded it off then you have to get a new one. Keep your old one, clean it out and it makes a great brush for sweeping dust off of everything, between coats, on your woodwork, sweeping the dust off your tools, etc, just a great little dust sweeper. Painters call them dusters. I always have a duster in my back pocket and a 5 in 1 tool in the side pocket of my painter's pants. Keep in mind these brushes are only for use in solvent-based paints lacquers, oil paint & stain, shellac anything like that. Do not use them in water based paints because the bristles will swell up in water. Purdy Synth-Ox synthetic Ox hair brushes are best for water-based finishes because they have a super fine grade of bristle and leave little to no brush marks. They're finest grade synthetic bristle brush you can buy. These will also work in your solvent-based finishes but the yachtsman or the pencil handle Wooster brushes are superior for solvent-based if you ask me. This is because the liquid from a solvent-based finish absorbs into the bristle itself and causes the bristles to get much more limber, whereas with a synthetic bristle brush the coating, whatever type you're using be it solvent or water based only coats the outside of the bristles. The bristle itself cannot absorb liquid into it like a natural bristle can. Zinsser Sealcoat wax free shellac is great if you don't want to have to fool with mixing your own. It's ready to go right out of the can, it's already water thin. It's a 2 lb cut instead of a 3 or 4 lb cut like your finish coat shellac. The cut means 2 lb of shellac flakes to one gallon of alcohol or 3 lb or 4 lb depending on whatever the cut strength it is. Zinsser BIN (Bullseye Brand) white pigmented Shellac is the best sealer underneath of all paints & opaque solid color finishes, it can even be tinted towards the color of your finish coat, but white is sufficient if you're going to use several coats over top of it. Denatured alcohol is the correct solvent for shellac and other alcohol-based stains and finishes. If you want a really high grade cutting solvent use Behkol from Behlens. I would only use this for thinning purposes or making shellac from flakes. It's too expensive to use for washing out your brushes. Use regular mineral spirits for washing out oil-based stains and paints and use lacquer thinner for washing out lacquer. Never use natural bristle brushes in water-based finishes unless you plan on using them once and making a duster out of them because it swells the bristles.
God Bless You and Yourn!!
Happy New Year!!
Jimmy in NC....
P.S. I hope this helps you.
I know this is an old comment, but thank you James for the great advice on brushes and general things. You’re really going to be a big help for my new guitar project 👍👍
Thanks for the ear plug tip. Nice job with the finishes & the video.
That redwood cap looks incredible.
Basically a French polish technique. Shellac, because its an evaporative finish due to being mixed with alcohol, each time that you apply a coat, it melts into the previous coat. French polishing used to be the standard way to finish furniture because of how durable it its.
Hi! May I use wood based grain filler before the shellac? I want to refinish my Ibanez SR905 bass. My plan in nutshell: send it with 120->400->600 g sandpaper until bare wood, then I would like to use stained woodfiller to create some contrast in the wood grains, than sand it back again , with 600 grit, then use the lighter color dye on wood then use the shellac mixed alcohol. Then apply 5-6 layers of tru oil. Sanding with 800 or 1000g sandpaper between layers. Should I use a final shellac layer over the tru oil? I have only done tru oils finishes so far. Thank you in advance for your answer.
Shellac before oil?
That's a new one on me. For woodworking I learned to do it the opposite way. Oil->shellac then if you want a shine, wax n buff.
As I understand it shellac is definitely a great first layer as a sealer if you're painting.
I'm about to finish my first guitar (Alder and Walnut solidbody). Thinking of doing an oil & shellac finish and found this video in my search.
2 thin coats of shellac under TruOil is ideal for a guitar neck IMHO. Buff out the final finish with 0000 steel wool and wax to yield the best feeling finish ever.
Oooooo, gorgeous!
Is there a follow-up/finish on this guitar? I would looooooove to see it. Even just pictures. Gorgeous. Love to hear you talk about it.
I should have but I sold her off and she is long gone playing daily in MD. Thank you!
@@PranaCustomGuitars i wanna see the dragon burst strat
Do you think shellac will bring out the grain on mahogany more than boiled linseed oil? Might use Tru Oil top coat.
How much does the shellac speaker darken it if you do lacquer later? I'm trying to not alter my tint too much
Every time you add a coat of lacquer or shellac there will always be a bit more amber added to the final color unless sanded away.
I couldn't have come across your Channel at a better time! I'm in the process of applying zinsser shellac to a Warmoth body strat. It's an amber color and I'm concerned about how many coats to put on because I don't want to lose the wood grain. So I'm wondering what your opinion is about that and also I've got a rattle can of some nitrocellulose that I was going to apply at the very end and I wanted to know what your opinion on that is. I don't know if my shellac is dewaxed like what you're talking about I don't have it sitting in front of me but it is zinsser. Does guitar bodies are stunning by the way and also you have a new subscriber here!🎸🔊🎶
Hi there, at the time when I did use the shellac was to have some drink into the soft wood of that particular guitar as well as a partial sealer on end grain. The reason is the hand applied oil/spirits/poly type finishes i was doing at the time would make end grain super dark. Lying on the surface wet for days allows the oils to drink into the grain super deep and darken. I would only use 2-3 coats of shellac and that amount will fill grain a tiny bit but nothing that would make it glass smooth. You will be surprised how incredibly hard it is to not feel grain or have seep in with shellac and nitro alone. With no grain filler. I think you shall be fine.
Beautiful ! I know it's an old video but I'm new to shellac , always prayed lacquer sealer .
Oh ! forgot , what is the recipe part shellac vs alcohol ? Thanks New sub here from Quebec !
I will do a 1.5 pound cut first so it goes deep into the wood for the first soak coat. 1.5 the amount of alc to flake. Thank you so much. 1:1 after...
Do you do this same process for the dyed guitars?
Depends on the colors because shellac always will give some amber color so blue dyes will turn green slightly. That said it is a great idea to use some sort of sealer over the dyed wood before applying finish/top coat. To help protect the colors and to keep the color from bleeding into the finish as well. So when applying with a gun or by hand a sealer over dyed wood you must be very careful not to go too sloppy wet because the alcohol in the shellac will also reactive the dye and they will bleed. Keep scraps and off cuts of the tops to do samples. I have been doing this for decades using dyes and I still to this day do samples first on scraps to see how everything will react. Experiment over and over it is never a waste of time you will be glad you did to see what doesn't work most importantly. Ya spend a billion hours getting it to the finish line literally so go slow easy..just my 2 cents.. finishing is still the hardest part for me.
Hi. Is there a second part to this video?
Hi Andrew, I have removed many videos on my channel where I could have done a better job recording. Fortunately it was sold to an amazing jazz guitarist I used to play with from MD. No there is not but I still am a huge fan of shellac. I use Royal-Lac now.
Hey, I have a question, can I do this on an already finished(satin) guitar?
No sir, this is for going straight to raw sanded wood.
@@PranaCustomGuitars Thank you! What would you recommend for a satin finish guitar? It's becoming glossy(polished) after repeated use. Instead of polishing it whole, I would like to finish it in gloss. Nitro-cellulose isn't an option because of the long drying period and I'm looking for a more diy option.
@@gumz4183 Most of all the diy "by hand" build finishes satin or gloss I know of all have long dry time compared to a 2 part poly sprayed finish and other catalyzed 2 part finishes. You would really need to either do if it is on raw woods just a few coats of something like a Danish oil or boiled linseed oil so there is no real build and it would be satin and dry fairly quickly. As far as a building finish for satin I like to use gloss and spray or wipe on an actual "satin" finish for the last few coats that has particulates to achieve the satin rather than gloss finishes that get rubbed out with wire wool and compound paste I always think that method looks like crap all swirly cob web micro scratches. To be completely honest I try new stuff all the time and re try old methods I have still not found my 100% happy place with finishes yet. I am always learning and do many tests to see what might work the best in my own shop.
this looks great. Do you do any wet sanding in between coats? is it even possible to wet sand a shellack finish? thanks
The way I'm using the shellac is as a sealer before I start to apply Tru-Oil. I do sand in between coats of shellac but just two coats two times sanding then on to whatever top coat I want to use. I do not believe you could wet sand shellac unless you built it up more than I would ever need to. I French polish is slow build of shellac smoothly so there is no need to wet sand. To be honest I am not 100% sure if you could or couldn't but I wouldn't think you would ever need to build it up enough to need to do that.
Does penetrating so much Shellac deep into the wood actually change its tonal properties?
Hi, been a long time since I posted that video. This could be debated over but if anything with such a soft wood as that redwood, the only thing it would do is help stiffen the surface up a bit for durability. Not deep enough to cause any audible difference IMO.
Does the shellac have to be dewaxed?
It is preferred when you are using it at a sealer before a top coat for me usually some sort of clear. The main reason is I do not want delamination between the shellac and the top coat. The oil or wax in regular shellac could cause the clear coat to pull away from the guitar.
What type of Alcohol are you mixing with the shellac? Just plain Rubbing alcohol of the dehydrated alcohol ??
Denatured box store stuff.. thank you
What grit do you use to sand the de waxed shellac sanding seal? First and second coats?
400 and 800
@@PranaCustomGuitars Makes sense. Thanks.
OK, so I need to ask why woodworkers r still using steel wool for heck sakes? ?? It is the worst stuff out there and there are better scuffing tools material wise to use, yes?? I would hate to risk ruining a finish using it. Just my humble 2 cents of course. Beautiful wood and instrument!! Will try the unwaxed shellac step first next time! Thank you!!!
Because there some things "Furniture Grade" wire wool can do that nothing else can.
Joe Sheldon Prana Custom Guitars ...By furnature grade do you mean brass wool? I have heard that is what one uses now? Not trying to be a pain, but have not had good luck with the steel verity. Do you know a supplier of what you are recommending? Thanks so much for your reply. I make native flutes so am thinking of more natural finishes to try. Always open to learning. Cheers!
www.ebay.com/itm/Briwax-Steel-Wool-Grade-0000-Oil-Free-225g-1-2lb-Roll/222686444257?epid=28007851683&hash=item33d9257ae1:g:9FMAAOSwiHpZ9K1k
There are no oils or solvents in it and it is much finer
Joe Sheldon Prana Custom Guitars thank you!! Have a great day!
Since I also build guitars (ua-cam.com/video/8b-y-HFo07c/v-deo.html) and I am considering offering a shellac finish to my clients, this video is quite interesting, thanks for sharing. A pitty that the audio is somewhat poor. I start to think that the "modern" conversion finishes are not so modern anymore. Since we all got much more aware about the environment, shellac might be the very best choice of today. On top of that, it has some really nice qualities when it comes to guitars. What do you think of it?By the way, I love the Redwood you have there.