100% Agree. The work you are willing to put into a character / class is the greatest factor because there are so many ways to get creative with your team synergy.
Natures touch is definitely more than 5%... no idea how yours is showing so low. I tested multiple spells and units vs different armored enemies and on average I got a 45.3% damage increase with nature's touch vs without. So pretty close to the 50% from psp, maybe just with weird scaling limits
Same here, my summons and apocrypha get an enormous boost from Nature's Touch. I get the feeling Coffee Potato might have been referencing his Phaesta's numbers when he was cutting on Nature's Touch. He has her as light-elemental, using light-elemental summons, and equipped with Nature's Touch but it does not boost light or darkness spells.
Yeah I noticed elements play a big role and most enemies on a map usually have the same one so I just scout then deploy mostly the element strong against them. Seems to make a big difference.
You are so right. There is no perfect class built. Everything is so dependent on current situation and also RNG on the turn. That why normally I will save before a fight so I can go and reform my team if necessary and also scout before battle.
People love fielding 4-6 Shamans because it works for them. Shamans overall damage are still the best lets not get that wrong atleast. I personally use one only since I like variety on my team (half physical/half casters). Some classes are better at doing something and that can be damage, CC etc. Experiment. Adapt. Enjoy.
When you mention the crits, I found that for instance changing Catiua to light element, adding the level 2 light summon, and adding equipment that enhances light damage, she would very often crit with her light abilities, however I didn't notice any difference in damage.
I def changed my favorite characters elements when I had extra scrolls, especially if I found a drop from the heavenly generals that was elemental. Literally it even shows on the stats screen a change. But as you also pointed out there are 8 elements, and when you are about to attack an enemy you will see the greater than / less than < > signs telling you if your damage is being tweaked for attacking the wrong element with the wrong unit.
It mentions that, but it's not quite working right. It's supposed to be %, but might only be doing a hard value, or...just not applying at all other times. You can tell this very easily with any weapon that has the Anatomy bonus (Human damage). Archers show this off particularly well with a Brimstone bow, easily going up from 300s to 450s on people. Great with the quad shot throwing it up to 1800...throw in a fear and a breach, maybe an Instill too, suddenly it's 10k damage time. Scaling is weird in the calculation, so it should be more noticable, is what I'm getting at.
Another bizarre thing I have noticed is if you target multiple units, and there is a dead unit in the range, you will always shoot less hits with the summons / ninja skills. So trying to target only living units / one unit to wipe them out one by one seems to be the best way to go. If you have a party member dead counting down 3-2-1 in that range, consider a different attack.
so in a nutshell, in terms of builds and offensive tactics philosophy, you favor debuffs and control. dmg is only relevant if it takes an enemy out in that action. if not, you're better off inflicting debuffs or control and slowly whittling enemies down while keeping the action economy edge on your side? out of curiosity, is there a build/class that can just one-shot non-squishy enemies as soon as they get in range without relying on cards or too much on items/ally buffs?
Pretty much any optimized unit can by the post game. Hell, I had a video recently of one-shotting Knight Commanders and such with an Archer Vyce that was fairly new at the end of Coda 4 just abusing the Anatomy scaling of the Brimstone Bow. The damage landscape will look very different if they ever patch armor resistances to work as they say they do.
"Your Mind is OP, Not Your Unit" is the best subtitle possible, and something I've continuously PROVED to card maxis on my no Incap run. Newbies: HOW you position and UTILIZE your units matters SOOO much more than "I need 50 atk cards". YES, by all means grab a few with Canopus on your way to that boss unit, but by no means is it a requirement for victory. If you try to build for max dps and no status utility, you'll find the game extremely punishing. Conversely, if you Charm half the opponents army with your mages, and Stun the other half with your Archers, you can swamp the boss that much more quickly, which is especially great when under-leveled.
@@coreygreene9498 terror knights have always been my favorite and Revorn makes them very good when equipped with a 2h sword that inflicts breached. Fear + breach turns a units defense into wet paper
I noticed that too. Cursed says it lowers HP/MP. But it also: 1) Disables Parry 2) Disables Counterattack 3) (Strongly Implied) Increases Critical Strike chance
I was spoiled on cross-class customizing in ffta and later fell seal(which is amazing!), but the lack-ish of it here smoothes out a lot of the game if u pay attention. It let me start charging into potd with all undeads/necro/lich lol, its pretty fun
Nice, I was wondering when you'd show San Bronsa, late CODA and maybe Heavenly Generals. I like watching your vids to prepare for endgame content 😁 I thought Heavenly Generals were the extreme endgame, but it looks like that's CODA4. Should I start hunting down Heavenly Forks before I do CODA4?
I got through to the the final fight of coda 4 and got my butt kicked so now I’m grinding through PotD so I can get my relics pumped up, get the Ogre gear, some Generals gear, and a bunch more charms before trying to fight the entire knight of Lodis’ roster in that final fight again!
@@Gamerextra1029 If you can figure out the right exploits you can make it without all of that but I want to make an unstoppable force. You can give it a go, it was fun, having to turn around just made me more interested!
I built my team with different squads within it. I have a Dark Squad (two Lich and my Dark weapon Swordmaster), Holy squad (Princess, Cleric, Holy Weapon Valkyrie) and the Battle Squad (2 DPS Rune Knights, Griffin, Buccaneer). My Griffin and Buccaneer run Wind setups together and my other Melee units are mixed elements. They combo well off of each other.
I've been doing PotD on AI because ain't nobody got time for that. I tabbed back in to watch my dragoon use Dragon's Wound on a pumpkin, then attack the dragon standing next to him with Dragon's Scale active. I've gotten a lot of good longbow drops that are worthless because Cupido Bow with Eagle Eye or Tremendous Shot exists.
I just finished the game, I saw some of your videos and I liked some of them. But, I want to say to everyone watching this channel, he has his own opinion and to me I disagree with most of what he said, Cannopus for example, he's a character that you should always use and will be useful in the end game, this channel said that Cannopus was useless in the end game, which I can't insist on how wrong this is. Also, Dragons was a must on his opinion, I beated the game without using dragons. He also said that the best class for Denam is the Rune Fencer, I disagree, it's the Buccaneer. A lot of things this channel said which I found very wrong, it's spamming videos about the game, but with little value, in fact it might ruin your game experience.
Canopus basically becomes the same level as everyone else by the end, barring some extra classes. He's not bad, but my point is you can't rely on one guy to carry you all game. Also, disagreements are fair, but everything is viable, when you've been "spamming videos about this game" for as many years as I have, you pick up on some things seeing new players trying out the game in its many forms. Fencers are easy to use, and adaptable to anything, while buccaneers take a sidequest that new folks find frustrating and often burn out on. It would be far easier for them to grab Lord if we're looking at advanced classes that can run hyper armor setups.
@@CoffeePotato I enjoy watching your channel because I love the game, but it's not close to perfect, you're just like us with no extra knowledge about the game that the regular player doesn't know.
Wait, wait. You still get bonuses from weapon skills on casters even if you don't equip the relevant weapon? You had Sherri with Cudgel and Shield but with the Spellbook skill.
@Coffee Potato Would you do us a favor and look into the "Cursed" spell for us? A) I noticed that it not only reduces HP/MP, but it also B) Disables passive class skills like Parry and Counterattacks C) Seems to dramatically increase critical hits on the Cursed unit D) Lowers Proc Rate/Luck/Crits/Damage (maybe) on the Cursed unit I'm 100% sure of "A" and "B" (at least as far as Counterattack - I'd assume it works on Parry) As for "C," in my experience and in your video, that seems to be the case? As for "D," can you help me figure it out? In any case, I'm going to update my Swordmaster + Lich synergy post to increase Cursed units probably are crit more, which synergizes with Preempt. EDIT: An hour later, I went back to your channel to recommend a video to someone on Reddit, and I saw the video you JUST made about the Debuff tier list. Weird timing. Anyway, I'm pretty sure Cursed is one of those complex debuffs that goes well beyond what it advertises.
Excellent video. One of the hallmarks of a great strategy game is the ability for many different play styles to all function and shine and not shoehorn one single “meta” stratagem.
Poison minus 30 per turn? Mama mia. Wish it was this high or even just near it in the older games. Memories of cervantes poison spamming instead of nuking you with friends grip. Kekw. "Right decision at the right time". Does this also apply to the enemy? Like you encountered this terror knight with this combination of skills that just messed your frontline. Or was there this enemy archer build that dealt good damage and had spells to deal with your units aiming for it? Do the enemy have builds that aren't vanilla is what I mean (e.g archer with range damage increase only, mages with just magic boost stuff, frontliners with all the tank skills etc.)? Also, from what I've seen, the revamps and card buff mechanics could deal with the turtling issue in the old games up to the psp remake. Wait for enemies to engage your Frontline then massacre them with mages and archers. Using this strat, I had no problems. Is aggressive play awarded well in this remake? Have not played Reborn btw.
Depends. I'd say tricky play is rewarded in either direction. Technically a lot of the old hold and kill strats still work, but they're different. Like you'd have a couple knights holding a wall, TK in the middle Lament spamming with a Claymore using Breach. Your archers have very pliniy damage at first, with the heavy gunner role being filled by the various mages, though archers do scale harder. Using the above example, you can see archers going from 1-1000+ immediately. Everything is kind of rewarded, but there's a lot more chaos. A lot of skills became Autos, meaning some stuff we rarely or never saw before is ever present. Generally it's better paced, and rewards more creative thought in maps over specific training methods.
Ah. Ok. I think I sort of get it. Sure turtle strats work just fine here like in the old games but because of the revamps, there is a lot more going on. Breach (and fear) complemented with the damage from the archers makes the turtle strat work as opposed to the turtle strat in the old games working because of just unit positioning. Did not really go in hard when I played the psp remake. So, I can't fully appreciate the revamps here. But I imagine they did a good job given your videos (yes, watched your first hands-on vid). Keep the ogre alive with these vids. :)
You'll have to get him again by redoing his last battle after you beat the game. If you go back to before chapter 4, make sure you don't kill him too soon. You will also need to build him up again.
I noticed you were running nature’s touch on your divine element rune knight/Valkyrie unit, but I thought Nature’s touch didn’t do anything for divine/dark damage? And it only worked for the 6 base elements?
Depends. Relics are more minmaxed for particular things usually, but the wide stat spread on even the worst cursed weapons gives them a defensive edge. The Heaven General weapons are generally the best for the most situations damage wise though, having a mix of everything. If damage isn't the thing you're looking for, it always depends. A Voulge+1 or Claymore+1 combined with Fearful is going to bring about way more damage than any number on any weapon. (Hell, the latest Coda 4 Knight Commander Archer One Shotter Vyce was 100% Brimstone Bow having a bonus that's really easy to exploit in that one situation)
No my mind is not OP, I am really stupid. What is OP however is hte Unit Turn order thing below. I have been cosnulting that for run where I have no incaps, currently halfway through PotD, at level 36 (don't need numbers when I can prevent the opponent from ever getting any crucial moves).
Qq- im at the point where i am seeing alot of zombie units in POTD. How do i recruit them? Also was curious if i can recruit the special colored units like the red and shadow blue colored ones. Would appreciate any help big thanks
A Beast Tamer can "Tame" dragons, even if undead. I don't think that the special colored enemies can be tamed at all. When hovering over them with a recruit ability it shows them as non recruitable.
I'm still in potd not even finished my first story run (law). Charms are stacking up and my Denem has been a fencer since the start. Is it worth dumping most on him? I have 83 units of mixed elements/classes and elemental opposites seem to make a big difference
They do, and if you're using him a lot, absolutely. Technically the biggest dumps should be the big 3 for the hidden finale, but depends on what you're preferring.
Does Apocrypha tier 2 actually drop on fortress reruns? I haven't rerun enough or be bothered to confirm since I'm already spamming tier2 summons and tier4 aoes
You're on the right track, but you're still wrong :) haha All mages dont do the same damage. The nature's touch buff is very significant, so classes with access to it and same type element summons (patriarch, shaman, recruited liches with an element besides dark, rune fencers, lord, etc) need much less investment to hit the "damage that sticks" one shotting range. Shaman is just normally the first and easiest one you get with the combo, and has popular unique characters so it gets propped up more than the other options. But any of those classes are very much a tier above the other damage classes. AI sucks at using magic and summons though so if you stick it on AI you will definitely be disappointed. The AI doesn't value damage very well, so the highest dps suffers the most when put on AI.
Hello! Out of curiosity, Your Patriarch is Fire Element but you gave him a Wind Staff. Is it because the elemental affinity is higher in Heart Crusher than in Spells?
Nope, it's just an element thing. As long as you're effective, it'll add the bonus, regardless of stick type. Might do more, but I just thought that one looked neat, and he was one shotting things, so I didn't care.
@@CoffeePotato I made my Patriarch Earth Elemental because I saw the Dagger with +15 Earth Element, so I thought it could boost Spell damage and the Neutral Melee/Finisher Damage. Thank You again.
@@adrianocressoni1902 true, and technically if I understand it right, skipping the staff to just use the dagger in the may hand may possibly boost power. Personally I just love having the option to go for the high chance poison jab while covering vs Lightning and Earth at the same time.
It increases the accuracy of any spell, but debuff spells see the most benefit from it, since the majority of the time you won't be missing with indirects or missile spells.
I was literally attacked on the Gamefaqs forums for suggesting that Swordmasters were a good class in Reborn. I know that Swordmasters were garbage in the past, but Reborn is a different game than the PSP version. Since Lich is tied for my favorite class, and since they just so happen to "cover" a lot of Swordmaster weaknesses and vice versa, I had to discover if War Dances work through Reflection. And sure enough, they do. The reaction to the discovery on the Tactics Ogre Subreddit was one of positivity, and the thread was moderately popular. The reaction on Gamefaqs? Zero replies. Some people (in the plural sense if they're stuck in an online echo chamber) just cannot accept that Reborn is far more balanced than previous iterations of LUCT, and that if you mix certain classes together, you'll get more potency than the sum of their parts. In any case, I appreciate your vidoes, as always. Please don't ever change.
@@kwangbae4788 Yeah, you're better off pretending that swordmasters don't have finishers. Seriously. They still do work for endgame though. They still can do a pretty decent amount of damage with mighty strike and falling blade. But the debuff sword dances become useless since they'll never hit. Why they didn't give those a flat chance of working (say, 70%) instead of scaling off of INT and MND for accuracy is beyond me.
@@DevilKillerJCS Simply make one of your Swordmasters a dedicated debuffer and apply Black Lizard Powder. With the spell accuracy buff, the chance to hit is routinely 70% - 80% Don't you think any higher than that would be overpowered? For a 300 goth item and one turn, you can transform a Swordmaster into an AoE Breach/Weaken/Charm machine. Swordmasters don't need Meditate because 1) it would conflict with more important abilities, and 2) using Swordmasters correctly will net them a ton of MP from Preempt + Counterattacking everyone who hits them. Not to mention Liches fueling your Swordmasters with so much mana, it's nuts. You're going to want A) Preempt, B) Falling Blade, C) Mind's Eye, and D) Mighty Strike. The only "interchangable" ability is Mighty Strike - and that is debatable. But in certain fights, I'll admit it can be benefitial to replace Mighty Strike with Weapon Skill (Finishers).... or, if you're fighting an extremely caster-heavy team, you can replace Mind's Eye. Otherwise, there just isn't room for Meditation. If they did get Meditation, it would have to be Med IV to even consider it in any circumstance.
@@DevilKillerJCS There is also the strong implication that the "Curse" spell (which only Lich and Necromancers get) increases your chance to critically strike the Cursed unit dramatically -- meaning that even without Falling Blade, your chance of negating melee attacks with Preempt is very high. Even more synergy between Lich and Swordmaster.
Hey, as a first time player I have a question, and although this might not be the perfect spot for it, hoping you might answer. I am in chapter 4 and unable to recruit Azelstan. I started chapter 4 by visiting Port Omish and successfully rescued "Diego" despite his apparent death wish. Won battles at Bhanna Highlands, Brigantys Castle, Mount Hedon, Hagia Banhamuba, recruited Sherri, won a battle at Krysaro and recuited Knight Commander Ozma, won batttles at Vanessan Way, Lambiss Hill, and Tziorious Field. I had long since read all the Warren Reports including the one about Pirates Graveyard, so I went back to Port Omish and had a conversation with "Diego" who told me not to call him Captain. I went through the first three Pirates Graveyard battles and did not see Azelstan, so I read up on this recruitment so I went to Quadriga Fortress and had the conversation about the flowers. But when I return to Pirates Graveyard, I see no sign of Azelstan when I get to Crystal Halls. Have I somehow blown this? And if so, is there still a way to get the buccaneer class? Thanks!
To be safe, re-read his bio and news, then go complete the castle. After that, you can meet him again in Omish, have a pretty annoying recruitment battle if not using flyers, and then finally can find him in Pirate's Graveyard. If you keep going to the Sacred Ground, you can also get classmarks to unlock the Buccaneer for Denam, Vyce, and Canopus.
@@CoffeePotato Thank you! Sure enough, once I had taken Barnicia, Azelton was back in town and needing rescue. And yeah, super annoying fight. Not so much difficult as just slow and aggravating. But I am back on track!
@@CoffeePotato Hey coffee potato, thanks for giving so much for this small community of ours. Considering you didn't mind answering his question in relation to Azelstan, would you mind telling us if there is any particularly interesting build if you have tried with him while using his class? I like his character and his special class but... i'm not really feeling he is that strong honestly. I'm using him with air affinity, dagger and fusil so that i can make use of both their finishers but... meh. Thanks for your time.
Lord class lets you build your own class, by allowing the use of skills that all other classes he can change into, have. You just have to have made Denam any of those classes and their learned skills will show up as available in the Lord class. So must people before they get the Lord class will change into every other class available then change to Lord (you're only given 3 Lord class marks when unlocked) and make a customized class. This allows you to run Fearful Impact w/o having to be a Terror Knight.
The way I think about endgame/postgame balance is this: is it more or less balanced than Final Fantasy Tactics? I love FFT. It's one of my favorite games of all time. It also seems to make absolutely no attempt to be balanced in its endgame. Between straight-up handing you units like Agrias and TG Cid, to Calculators, to Mimes, to Monk Ramza, it is incredible the number of ways you can just crack that game open at endgame. There are *severe* balance problems in FFT's endgame--but it doesn't really bother me, because it's totally viable to play with all generics, with generic jobs, without abusing Math Skill. It's not the most efficient way to play by a long shot, but it's strong enough to still be fun. Tactics Ogre Reborn is a lot less broken than that. Sure, White Knights and Shamans (or summoners in general) are incredible at endgame and yeah, you could just field four WKs and six summoners and crush everything. But you don't have to. It's not the only way to play, and other options aren't so much weaker as to not be fun. And even with WKs and summons, they're still not at Orlandeau or FFT Calculator level. And there's a really wide variety of generic, beast, dragon, lizardfolk, faerie, etc. units to field that I don't feel limited in my available strategies at all. I'm excited for whatever modders do, or a potential "One Vision Reborn" years down the line, but I'm also reasonably happy with the current balance. I wish AGI and AVD did more, I suppose, and that some weapons had better finishers, but otherwise, I think it's in pretty decent shape, considering how wild other games in this genre (or even other versions of Tactics Ogre) could get.
2:02 Units don't take more damage based on their elemental weakness, despite what the combat info tells you. Instead, your units will deal more or less damage depending on whether their element aligns with or opposes the spell/skill being used. You can test this yourself in training.
one of the things that discouraged me from buying this version is that I found it very ugly and poor the treatment given to the 2d sprites and it doesn't have a different attack animation like sword with knight makes a different attack animation here everything is the same I'm a big fan of the mod (valeria ) a pity it's in japanese I'm finishing the palace of the dead
Given the amount of sprite work in the game, how iconic they are, and how limited the budget was for testing them on a game this wide ..I doubt that it would have been feasible, unfortunately.
how dare you diminish how absolutely broken ogre denam is. my man tanked all KCs in coda4 MVP. Still, shamans only having dps is the only thing they need. the dmg is just far beyond everything else (everything else without summons). i was at first disappointed shamans cant status to then realize just how bonkers summon is. because searching element advantage is kind of tedious to me, i straight up completely ignored elements when doing casts and it just didn't matter, summon dps is king. Shamans are not broken, shamans just happen to have the best kit available at first, patriarchs are IMO > shamans because of the nullify and you can give them nature touch with body snatch, its just shamans are easily accessible. Summon is what separates DPS from everything else. Denam is the best summon user thanks to ogre set, i would say princess is the second best because of her better stats and lucky star giving crit to everyone else. then patriarchs/matriarchs with their body snatched better kits than shaman, then shamans, then valkys and lich then everything else is just completely inferior (rip wicce) The problem with archers is that cupido bow is the last bow that has a status. most of the weapons after that (not just bows) completely let go of status. Why is it that enchi bows, relic bows, HG bows everything is just pure DPS? what was their intention there? even jiggy cannot compete to a shaman even if off element Just because summons are OP doesn't mean other things are not viable, however If you really want to prove that other things can keep up then you need to give examples on "why would I, manually, not use summon vs another spell/archer/skil in coda4". Coda4 is the hardest challenge in the game, if you really believe other builds can keep up that's how to do it.
Great points about summons. I still prefer shamans over matriarchs because of tier 2 forbidden magic, there are sometimes when you align a nature thouch with forbidden magic and is pretty good against a group of squishies, but summons are still king dps wise. I am still in the search of Warren part of coda, so I cannot talk about shaman in coda 4.
First off denam is not even close to the strongest mage in the game infact if you don't use int and mind charms all game which you SHOULD be doing, you then get a level 1 unit, make it into a lich level it to 50 feed it all charms, gfg, my lich gfg, and you can OGRE blade into a lich from warrior, thereby giving access to the ogre set for your lich making it so ridic busted it's insane and Two summons are just busted, thinking otherwise is honestly delusional XD, they realy do make most other things useless, natures touch + summon + concentrate is 300 + damage per hit with tier 2 summons is 7 hits so that's oneshotting literally everything lategame except tanks or bosses i run 4 of them, in TWO turns with my mages alone battles are just yea lol they do iinsane damage and unless you can oneshot even close to efficiently as that you're not good you can make archers op af in this game my arycelle can oneshot about everything in the game and it's super easy to do just requires dex charms, upgrading bow the proper equip and arycelle is casually shooting for high damage but diff is you canonly make one archer without grinding ridic amount of hours for more charms i'd say on average you do potd maybe 4ish times way more then enough charms to make an archer op
@@andrewtatian7495 I was giving all my dex charms to vyce, and like I did in the PSP version I Tried going vyce archer jiggy set in coda4 and he just coulnd't keep up. I did PoTD 3 times total and gave most of my magic stuff to denam, mnd to catuia, and dex to vyce. and still vyce ended up being more helpful being a valky or a warlock than a archer/bucanneer/ranger (tried all 3 with jiggy, xbow and gun). my vyce has 320 dex. which is 70 pts higher than ary naturally, so yea if i had chosen ary to be my dex eater maybe she reaches 400 but you need vyce for coda4 why i chose him. Still i don't see at 400 dex she would be one shotting like summon does. I have a fully leveled jiggy set from my 3 potd trips. And by not working i don't mean 400 dmg per hit no. i mean she cant get past KC armor and does 1 dmg to all KCs. I agree on the lich strat, its just a generic version of denam, its the same thing, what i meant to say is "ogre set is the best summon 2 user" it just happens denam is the only one naturally that can do it outside of lich bodysnatching, IMO since denam gets access to more skills i would say denam > bodysnatch lich but that would make it second place.
@@RexBuyeo Same access to basically everything, the thing that made shaman superior was natures touch. however you can give patriarchs nature touch through bodysnatch and well patriarch having nullify is enough of an advantage to put em over shamans for me.
100% Agree. The work you are willing to put into a character / class is the greatest factor because there are so many ways to get creative with your team synergy.
Natures touch is definitely more than 5%... no idea how yours is showing so low. I tested multiple spells and units vs different armored enemies and on average I got a 45.3% damage increase with nature's touch vs without. So pretty close to the 50% from psp, maybe just with weird scaling limits
Same here, my summons and apocrypha get an enormous boost from Nature's Touch.
I get the feeling Coffee Potato might have been referencing his Phaesta's numbers when he was cutting on Nature's Touch. He has her as light-elemental, using light-elemental summons, and equipped with Nature's Touch but it does not boost light or darkness spells.
Figured out why a while ago, but yeah, it's 50%.
Yeah I noticed elements play a big role and most enemies on a map usually have the same one so I just scout then deploy mostly the element strong against them. Seems to make a big difference.
Especially handy for Archers.
You are so right. There is no perfect class built. Everything is so dependent on current situation and also RNG on the turn. That why normally I will save before a fight so I can go and reform my team if necessary and also scout before battle.
People love fielding 4-6 Shamans because it works for them. Shamans overall damage are still the best lets not get that wrong atleast. I personally use one only since I like variety on my team (half physical/half casters).
Some classes are better at doing something and that can be damage, CC etc.
Experiment. Adapt. Enjoy.
When you mention the crits, I found that for instance changing Catiua to light element, adding the level 2 light summon, and adding equipment that enhances light damage, she would very often crit with her light abilities, however I didn't notice any difference in damage.
It's possible, we don't know all the interactions yet. Could also have been daily luck. Some days you just roll max luck and Crit for days.
Thank you for another guide. I hope to get to that part of the game someday!
You can do it!
I def changed my favorite characters elements when I had extra scrolls, especially if I found a drop from the heavenly generals that was elemental. Literally it even shows on the stats screen a change. But as you also pointed out there are 8 elements, and when you are about to attack an enemy you will see the greater than / less than < > signs telling you if your damage is being tweaked for attacking the wrong element with the wrong unit.
It mentions that, but it's not quite working right. It's supposed to be %, but might only be doing a hard value, or...just not applying at all other times. You can tell this very easily with any weapon that has the Anatomy bonus (Human damage). Archers show this off particularly well with a Brimstone bow, easily going up from 300s to 450s on people. Great with the quad shot throwing it up to 1800...throw in a fear and a breach, maybe an Instill too, suddenly it's 10k damage time. Scaling is weird in the calculation, so it should be more noticable, is what I'm getting at.
I’ll have you know that my unit is very OP.
Congratulations, I'm sure your significant other is very happy.
@@CoffeePotato 😂😂👻
Another bizarre thing I have noticed is if you target multiple units, and there is a dead unit in the range, you will always shoot less hits with the summons / ninja skills. So trying to target only living units / one unit to wipe them out one by one seems to be the best way to go. If you have a party member dead counting down 3-2-1 in that range, consider a different attack.
Yeah, it's weird like that. Similarly a critical health unit with Apostate will always survive, because it refuses to hit past the kill it expected.
so in a nutshell, in terms of builds and offensive tactics philosophy, you favor debuffs and control. dmg is only relevant if it takes an enemy out in that action. if not, you're better off inflicting debuffs or control and slowly whittling enemies down while keeping the action economy edge on your side?
out of curiosity, is there a build/class that can just one-shot non-squishy enemies as soon as they get in range without relying on cards or too much on items/ally buffs?
Pretty much any optimized unit can by the post game. Hell, I had a video recently of one-shotting Knight Commanders and such with an Archer Vyce that was fairly new at the end of Coda 4 just abusing the Anatomy scaling of the Brimstone Bow. The damage landscape will look very different if they ever patch armor resistances to work as they say they do.
"Your Mind is OP, Not Your Unit" is the best subtitle possible, and something I've continuously PROVED to card maxis on my no Incap run. Newbies: HOW you position and UTILIZE your units matters SOOO much more than "I need 50 atk cards". YES, by all means grab a few with Canopus on your way to that boss unit, but by no means is it a requirement for victory. If you try to build for max dps and no status utility, you'll find the game extremely punishing. Conversely, if you Charm half the opponents army with your mages, and Stun the other half with your Archers, you can swamp the boss that much more quickly, which is especially great when under-leveled.
Cheers will try this out. Think terror knight is a cool debilitate/dps?
@@coreygreene9498 terror knights have always been my favorite and Revorn makes them very good when equipped with a 2h sword that inflicts breached. Fear + breach turns a units defense into wet paper
@@tostonesgg hello! Are you on Playstation by any chance?
The Cursed debuff makes units more susceptible to being crit, even if the attacker doesn’t have a crit card. @ 27:47
I noticed that too. Cursed says it lowers HP/MP. But it also:
1) Disables Parry
2) Disables Counterattack
3) (Strongly Implied) Increases Critical Strike chance
I was spoiled on cross-class customizing in ffta and later fell seal(which is amazing!), but the lack-ish of it here smoothes out a lot of the game if u pay attention. It let me start charging into potd with all undeads/necro/lich lol, its pretty fun
It does, but to it's credit they do add a bunch of new little interactions. Getting used to them has admittedly been a bit of a headache.
If something isn't good, throw more cards at it, it'll be good eventually. I do wish HP/MP cards were adjusted to fit the new scaling.
Don't Forget The Necromancer!! I use one as my major mages!!
True enough
Hilariously enough with the Lord class you can have both parry and counterattack, if you are willing to have Lombardia in your off hand as well.
True, works well on a Knight, too.
Nice, I was wondering when you'd show San Bronsa, late CODA and maybe Heavenly Generals. I like watching your vids to prepare for endgame content 😁
I thought Heavenly Generals were the extreme endgame, but it looks like that's CODA4. Should I start hunting down Heavenly Forks before I do CODA4?
I got through to the the final fight of coda 4 and got my butt kicked so now I’m grinding through PotD so I can get my relics pumped up, get the Ogre gear, some Generals gear, and a bunch more charms before trying to fight the entire knight of Lodis’ roster in that final fight again!
@@FujikoSimp69000 Gotcha. I think I won't be tackling CODA4 anytime soon then, lol
@@Gamerextra1029 If you can figure out the right exploits you can make it without all of that but I want to make an unstoppable force. You can give it a go, it was fun, having to turn around just made me more interested!
I built my team with different squads within it. I have a Dark Squad (two Lich and my Dark weapon Swordmaster), Holy squad (Princess, Cleric, Holy Weapon Valkyrie) and the Battle Squad (2 DPS Rune Knights, Griffin, Buccaneer). My Griffin and Buccaneer run Wind setups together and my other Melee units are mixed elements. They combo well off of each other.
Finally another content creator that uses AT. I AT every match currently grinding to get the ogre sword. Drop rate gotta be low
CODA 4 is CRAZY!!
I've been doing PotD on AI because ain't nobody got time for that. I tabbed back in to watch my dragoon use Dragon's Wound on a pumpkin, then attack the dragon standing next to him with Dragon's Scale active.
I've gotten a lot of good longbow drops that are worthless because Cupido Bow with Eagle Eye or Tremendous Shot exists.
Luck triumphant all in this game, especially when procing skills
I just finished the game, I saw some of your videos and I liked some of them. But, I want to say to everyone watching this channel, he has his own opinion and to me I disagree with most of what he said, Cannopus for example, he's a character that you should always use and will be useful in the end game, this channel said that Cannopus was useless in the end game, which I can't insist on how wrong this is. Also, Dragons was a must on his opinion, I beated the game without using dragons. He also said that the best class for Denam is the Rune Fencer, I disagree, it's the Buccaneer. A lot of things this channel said which I found very wrong, it's spamming videos about the game, but with little value, in fact it might ruin your game experience.
Canopus basically becomes the same level as everyone else by the end, barring some extra classes. He's not bad, but my point is you can't rely on one guy to carry you all game. Also, disagreements are fair, but everything is viable, when you've been "spamming videos about this game" for as many years as I have, you pick up on some things seeing new players trying out the game in its many forms.
Fencers are easy to use, and adaptable to anything, while buccaneers take a sidequest that new folks find frustrating and often burn out on. It would be far easier for them to grab Lord if we're looking at advanced classes that can run hyper armor setups.
@@CoffeePotato I enjoy watching your channel because I love the game, but it's not close to perfect, you're just like us with no extra knowledge about the game that the regular player doesn't know.
Wait, wait. You still get bonuses from weapon skills on casters even if you don't equip the relevant weapon? You had Sherri with Cudgel and Shield but with the Spellbook skill.
@Coffee Potato Would you do us a favor and look into the "Cursed" spell for us?
A) I noticed that it not only reduces HP/MP, but it also
B) Disables passive class skills like Parry and Counterattacks
C) Seems to dramatically increase critical hits on the Cursed unit
D) Lowers Proc Rate/Luck/Crits/Damage (maybe) on the Cursed unit
I'm 100% sure of "A" and "B" (at least as far as Counterattack - I'd assume it works on Parry)
As for "C," in my experience and in your video, that seems to be the case?
As for "D," can you help me figure it out?
In any case, I'm going to update my Swordmaster + Lich synergy post to increase Cursed units probably are crit more, which synergizes with Preempt.
EDIT: An hour later, I went back to your channel to recommend a video to someone on Reddit, and I saw the video you JUST made about the Debuff tier list. Weird timing. Anyway, I'm pretty sure Cursed is one of those complex debuffs that goes well beyond what it advertises.
Very well could be, I'll check into the luck thing. A lot of us have been experimenting around with mechanics to figure out the broken stuff anyway.
Excellent video. One of the hallmarks of a great strategy game is the ability for many different play styles to all function and shine and not shoehorn one single “meta” stratagem.
Poison minus 30 per turn? Mama mia. Wish it was this high or even just near it in the older games. Memories of cervantes poison spamming instead of nuking you with friends grip. Kekw.
"Right decision at the right time". Does this also apply to the enemy? Like you encountered this terror knight with this combination of skills that just messed your frontline. Or was there this enemy archer build that dealt good damage and had spells to deal with your units aiming for it? Do the enemy have builds that aren't vanilla is what I mean (e.g archer with range damage increase only, mages with just magic boost stuff, frontliners with all the tank skills etc.)?
Also, from what I've seen, the revamps and card buff mechanics could deal with the turtling issue in the old games up to the psp remake. Wait for enemies to engage your Frontline then massacre them with mages and archers. Using this strat, I had no problems. Is aggressive play awarded well in this remake?
Have not played Reborn btw.
Depends. I'd say tricky play is rewarded in either direction. Technically a lot of the old hold and kill strats still work, but they're different. Like you'd have a couple knights holding a wall, TK in the middle Lament spamming with a Claymore using Breach. Your archers have very pliniy damage at first, with the heavy gunner role being filled by the various mages, though archers do scale harder. Using the above example, you can see archers going from 1-1000+ immediately. Everything is kind of rewarded, but there's a lot more chaos. A lot of skills became Autos, meaning some stuff we rarely or never saw before is ever present. Generally it's better paced, and rewards more creative thought in maps over specific training methods.
Ah. Ok. I think I sort of get it. Sure turtle strats work just fine here like in the old games but because of the revamps, there is a lot more going on. Breach (and fear) complemented with the damage from the archers makes the turtle strat work as opposed to the turtle strat in the old games working because of just unit positioning.
Did not really go in hard when I played the psp remake. So, I can't fully appreciate the revamps here. But I imagine they did a good job given your videos (yes, watched your first hands-on vid).
Keep the ogre alive with these vids. :)
My Ganpp got thrown off a cliff to his death by a dragon. I dont save scum, any way to get him back?
You'll have to get him again by redoing his last battle after you beat the game. If you go back to before chapter 4, make sure you don't kill him too soon. You will also need to build him up again.
I noticed you were running nature’s touch on your divine element rune knight/Valkyrie unit, but I thought Nature’s touch didn’t do anything for divine/dark damage? And it only worked for the 6 base elements?
I was testing what it did. It seems to boost a little, and she doesn't really have any other skills that I'd need on an invisible unit.
Is relics weapons better than cursed?
Depends. Relics are more minmaxed for particular things usually, but the wide stat spread on even the worst cursed weapons gives them a defensive edge. The Heaven General weapons are generally the best for the most situations damage wise though, having a mix of everything. If damage isn't the thing you're looking for, it always depends. A Voulge+1 or Claymore+1 combined with Fearful is going to bring about way more damage than any number on any weapon. (Hell, the latest Coda 4 Knight Commander Archer One Shotter Vyce was 100% Brimstone Bow having a bonus that's really easy to exploit in that one situation)
No my mind is not OP, I am really stupid. What is OP however is hte Unit Turn order thing below. I have been cosnulting that for run where I have no incaps, currently halfway through PotD, at level 36 (don't need numbers when I can prevent the opponent from ever getting any crucial moves).
An army of max level zombie dragons (with knockback immunity) is pretty unstoppable in most fights.
Qq- im at the point where i am seeing alot of zombie units in POTD. How do i recruit them? Also was curious if i can recruit the special colored units like the red and shadow blue colored ones. Would appreciate any help big thanks
A Beast Tamer can "Tame" dragons, even if undead. I don't think that the special colored enemies can be tamed at all. When hovering over them with a recruit ability it shows them as non recruitable.
@@IraStephens okay awesome thanks alot!
I'm still in potd not even finished my first story run (law). Charms are stacking up and my Denem has been a fencer since the start. Is it worth dumping most on him? I have 83 units of mixed elements/classes and elemental opposites seem to make a big difference
They do, and if you're using him a lot, absolutely. Technically the biggest dumps should be the big 3 for the hidden finale, but depends on what you're preferring.
Poison is 30%? That's disgusting. Even 8 percent is a lot. If there's not much poison immunity it sounds very useful.
Does Apocrypha tier 2 actually drop on fortress reruns? I haven't rerun enough or be bothered to confirm since I'm already spamming tier2 summons and tier4 aoes
like 5% drop rate tho
You're gonna chariot for them a while. Some also have weapon drops, though they don't seem terribly impressive.
I prefer to have both, thanks 🙂
You're on the right track, but you're still wrong :) haha
All mages dont do the same damage. The nature's touch buff is very significant, so classes with access to it and same type element summons (patriarch, shaman, recruited liches with an element besides dark, rune fencers, lord, etc) need much less investment to hit the "damage that sticks" one shotting range. Shaman is just normally the first and easiest one you get with the combo, and has popular unique characters so it gets propped up more than the other options. But any of those classes are very much a tier above the other damage classes. AI sucks at using magic and summons though so if you stick it on AI you will definitely be disappointed. The AI doesn't value damage very well, so the highest dps suffers the most when put on AI.
magic damage, esp summon is a bit too much
Hello! Out of curiosity, Your Patriarch is Fire Element but you gave him a Wind Staff. Is it because the elemental affinity is higher in Heart Crusher than in Spells?
Nope, it's just an element thing. As long as you're effective, it'll add the bonus, regardless of stick type. Might do more, but I just thought that one looked neat, and he was one shotting things, so I didn't care.
@@CoffeePotato I made my Patriarch Earth Elemental because I saw the Dagger with +15 Earth Element, so I thought it could boost Spell damage and the Neutral Melee/Finisher Damage. Thank You again.
@@adrianocressoni1902 true, and technically if I understand it right, skipping the staff to just use the dagger in the may hand may possibly boost power. Personally I just love having the option to go for the high chance poison jab while covering vs Lightning and Earth at the same time.
i never understood people who play tactics game want to go damage go brrrrr its a tactics game you need to use all tools to make the game your b****
Does concentrate only affect debuff or also damage spells too?
It increases the accuracy of any spell, but debuff spells see the most benefit from it, since the majority of the time you won't be missing with indirects or missile spells.
@@tostonesgg okay cool. Thank you!
How big is this game and how hard? Not sure I jave the time to commit. Fe engage soon also
It is as big as you want and newcomer friendly. Also cheap.
I was literally attacked on the Gamefaqs forums for suggesting that Swordmasters were a good class in Reborn. I know that Swordmasters were garbage in the past, but Reborn is a different game than the PSP version.
Since Lich is tied for my favorite class, and since they just so happen to "cover" a lot of Swordmaster weaknesses and vice versa, I had to discover if War Dances work through Reflection. And sure enough, they do.
The reaction to the discovery on the Tactics Ogre Subreddit was one of positivity, and the thread was moderately popular. The reaction on Gamefaqs? Zero replies.
Some people (in the plural sense if they're stuck in an online echo chamber) just cannot accept that Reborn is far more balanced than previous iterations of LUCT, and that if you mix certain classes together, you'll get more potency than the sum of their parts.
In any case, I appreciate your vidoes, as always. Please don't ever change.
I remember seeing this thread lol but yeah I've kept hobyrim as a swordmaster the entire time and he does well lol
Nah. Swordmasters are good(main story) but not great. Give that class meditate and better finishers maybe they'll work out better post game.
@@kwangbae4788 Yeah, you're better off pretending that swordmasters don't have finishers. Seriously.
They still do work for endgame though. They still can do a pretty decent amount of damage with mighty strike and falling blade. But the debuff sword dances become useless since they'll never hit. Why they didn't give those a flat chance of working (say, 70%) instead of scaling off of INT and MND for accuracy is beyond me.
@@DevilKillerJCS Simply make one of your Swordmasters a dedicated debuffer and apply Black Lizard Powder. With the spell accuracy buff, the chance to hit is routinely 70% - 80%
Don't you think any higher than that would be overpowered? For a 300 goth item and one turn, you can transform a Swordmaster into an AoE Breach/Weaken/Charm machine.
Swordmasters don't need Meditate because 1) it would conflict with more important abilities, and 2) using Swordmasters correctly will net them a ton of MP from Preempt + Counterattacking everyone who hits them. Not to mention Liches fueling your Swordmasters with so much mana, it's nuts.
You're going to want A) Preempt, B) Falling Blade, C) Mind's Eye, and D) Mighty Strike.
The only "interchangable" ability is Mighty Strike - and that is debatable. But in certain fights, I'll admit it can be benefitial to replace Mighty Strike with Weapon Skill (Finishers).... or, if you're fighting an extremely caster-heavy team, you can replace Mind's Eye.
Otherwise, there just isn't room for Meditation. If they did get Meditation, it would have to be Med IV to even consider it in any circumstance.
@@DevilKillerJCS There is also the strong implication that the "Curse" spell (which only Lich and Necromancers get) increases your chance to critically strike the Cursed unit dramatically -- meaning that even without Falling Blade, your chance of negating melee attacks with Preempt is very high. Even more synergy between Lich and Swordmaster.
Hey, as a first time player I have a question, and although this might not be the perfect spot for it, hoping you might answer.
I am in chapter 4 and unable to recruit Azelstan. I started chapter 4 by visiting Port Omish and successfully rescued "Diego" despite his apparent death wish. Won battles at Bhanna Highlands, Brigantys Castle, Mount Hedon, Hagia Banhamuba, recruited Sherri, won a battle at Krysaro and recuited Knight Commander Ozma, won batttles at Vanessan Way, Lambiss Hill, and Tziorious Field. I had long since read all the Warren Reports including the one about Pirates Graveyard, so I went back to Port Omish and had a conversation with "Diego" who told me not to call him Captain. I went through the first three Pirates Graveyard battles and did not see Azelstan, so I read up on this recruitment so I went to Quadriga Fortress and had the conversation about the flowers. But when I return to Pirates Graveyard, I see no sign of Azelstan when I get to Crystal Halls. Have I somehow blown this? And if so, is there still a way to get the buccaneer class?
Thanks!
To be safe, re-read his bio and news, then go complete the castle. After that, you can meet him again in Omish, have a pretty annoying recruitment battle if not using flyers, and then finally can find him in Pirate's Graveyard. If you keep going to the Sacred Ground, you can also get classmarks to unlock the Buccaneer for Denam, Vyce, and Canopus.
@@CoffeePotato Thank you! Sure enough, once I had taken Barnicia, Azelton was back in town and needing rescue. And yeah, super annoying fight. Not so much difficult as just slow and aggravating. But I am back on track!
@@CoffeePotato Hey coffee potato, thanks for giving so much for this small community of ours. Considering you didn't mind answering his question in relation to Azelstan, would you mind telling us if there is any particularly interesting build if you have tried with him while using his class? I like his character and his special class but... i'm not really feeling he is that strong honestly. I'm using him with air affinity, dagger and fusil so that i can make use of both their finishers but... meh. Thanks for your time.
How does denam have fear?
Lord class lets you build your own class, by allowing the use of skills that all other classes he can change into, have. You just have to have made Denam any of those classes and their learned skills will show up as available in the Lord class. So must people before they get the Lord class will change into every other class available then change to Lord (you're only given 3 Lord class marks when unlocked) and make a customized class. This allows you to run Fearful Impact w/o having to be a Terror Knight.
The way I think about endgame/postgame balance is this: is it more or less balanced than Final Fantasy Tactics?
I love FFT. It's one of my favorite games of all time. It also seems to make absolutely no attempt to be balanced in its endgame. Between straight-up handing you units like Agrias and TG Cid, to Calculators, to Mimes, to Monk Ramza, it is incredible the number of ways you can just crack that game open at endgame. There are *severe* balance problems in FFT's endgame--but it doesn't really bother me, because it's totally viable to play with all generics, with generic jobs, without abusing Math Skill. It's not the most efficient way to play by a long shot, but it's strong enough to still be fun.
Tactics Ogre Reborn is a lot less broken than that. Sure, White Knights and Shamans (or summoners in general) are incredible at endgame and yeah, you could just field four WKs and six summoners and crush everything. But you don't have to. It's not the only way to play, and other options aren't so much weaker as to not be fun. And even with WKs and summons, they're still not at Orlandeau or FFT Calculator level. And there's a really wide variety of generic, beast, dragon, lizardfolk, faerie, etc. units to field that I don't feel limited in my available strategies at all.
I'm excited for whatever modders do, or a potential "One Vision Reborn" years down the line, but I'm also reasonably happy with the current balance. I wish AGI and AVD did more, I suppose, and that some weapons had better finishers, but otherwise, I think it's in pretty decent shape, considering how wild other games in this genre (or even other versions of Tactics Ogre) could get.
2:02 Units don't take more damage based on their elemental weakness, despite what the combat info tells you. Instead, your units will deal more or less damage depending on whether their element aligns with or opposes the spell/skill being used. You can test this yourself in training.
one of the things that discouraged me from buying this version is that I found it very ugly and poor the treatment given to the 2d sprites and it doesn't have a different attack animation like sword with knight makes a different attack animation here everything is the same I'm a big fan of the mod (valeria ) a pity it's in japanese I'm finishing the palace of the dead
Given the amount of sprite work in the game, how iconic they are, and how limited the budget was for testing them on a game this wide ..I doubt that it would have been feasible, unfortunately.
how dare you diminish how absolutely broken ogre denam is. my man tanked all KCs in coda4 MVP.
Still, shamans only having dps is the only thing they need. the dmg is just far beyond everything else (everything else without summons). i was at first disappointed shamans cant status to then realize just how bonkers summon is. because searching element advantage is kind of tedious to me, i straight up completely ignored elements when doing casts and it just didn't matter, summon dps is king. Shamans are not broken, shamans just happen to have the best kit available at first, patriarchs are IMO > shamans because of the nullify and you can give them nature touch with body snatch, its just shamans are easily accessible. Summon is what separates DPS from everything else. Denam is the best summon user thanks to ogre set, i would say princess is the second best because of her better stats and lucky star giving crit to everyone else. then patriarchs/matriarchs with their body snatched better kits than shaman, then shamans, then valkys and lich then everything else is just completely inferior (rip wicce)
The problem with archers is that cupido bow is the last bow that has a status. most of the weapons after that (not just bows) completely let go of status. Why is it that enchi bows, relic bows, HG bows everything is just pure DPS? what was their intention there? even jiggy cannot compete to a shaman even if off element
Just because summons are OP doesn't mean other things are not viable, however If you really want to prove that other things can keep up then you need to give examples on "why would I, manually, not use summon vs another spell/archer/skil in coda4". Coda4 is the hardest challenge in the game, if you really believe other builds can keep up that's how to do it.
Great points about summons. I still prefer shamans over matriarchs because of tier 2 forbidden magic, there are sometimes when you align a nature thouch with forbidden magic and is pretty good against a group of squishies, but summons are still king dps wise. I am still in the search of Warren part of coda, so I cannot talk about shaman in coda 4.
What do you mean by this "patriarchs/matriarchs with their body snatched better kits than shaman"?
First off denam is not even close to the strongest mage in the game infact if you don't use int and mind charms all game which you SHOULD be doing, you then get a level 1 unit, make it into a lich level it to 50 feed it all charms, gfg, my lich gfg, and you can OGRE blade into a lich from warrior, thereby giving access to the ogre set for your lich making it so ridic busted it's insane
and Two summons are just busted, thinking otherwise is honestly delusional XD, they realy do make most other things useless, natures touch + summon + concentrate is 300 + damage per hit with tier 2 summons is 7 hits so that's oneshotting literally everything lategame except tanks or bosses i run 4 of them, in TWO turns with my mages alone battles are just yea lol they do iinsane damage and unless you can oneshot even close to efficiently as that you're not good
you can make archers op af in this game my arycelle can oneshot about everything in the game
and it's super easy to do just requires dex charms, upgrading bow the proper equip and arycelle is casually shooting for high damage
but diff is you canonly make one archer without grinding ridic amount of hours for more charms
i'd say on average you do potd maybe 4ish times way more then enough charms to make an archer op
@@andrewtatian7495 I was giving all my dex charms to vyce, and like I did in the PSP version I Tried going vyce archer jiggy set in coda4 and he just coulnd't keep up. I did PoTD 3 times total and gave most of my magic stuff to denam, mnd to catuia, and dex to vyce. and still vyce ended up being more helpful being a valky or a warlock than a archer/bucanneer/ranger (tried all 3 with jiggy, xbow and gun). my vyce has 320 dex. which is 70 pts higher than ary naturally, so yea if i had chosen ary to be my dex eater maybe she reaches 400 but you need vyce for coda4 why i chose him. Still i don't see at 400 dex she would be one shotting like summon does. I have a fully leveled jiggy set from my 3 potd trips.
And by not working i don't mean 400 dmg per hit no. i mean she cant get past KC armor and does 1 dmg to all KCs.
I agree on the lich strat, its just a generic version of denam, its the same thing, what i meant to say is "ogre set is the best summon 2 user" it just happens denam is the only one naturally that can do it outside of lich bodysnatching, IMO since denam gets access to more skills i would say denam > bodysnatch lich but that would make it second place.
@@RexBuyeo Same access to basically everything, the thing that made shaman superior was natures touch. however you can give patriarchs nature touch through bodysnatch and well patriarch having nullify is enough of an advantage to put em over shamans for me.
Nature powers feels like it never procs: Lich > Shamen